Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[quadz08]

Who thinks alignments are related to allegiance? Will anyone admit to being a player whose alignment is [Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic] Evil, but whose allegiance is town?

Vi is a better mod than that. Do you really think it'd be that easy? Asking obvious questions for town cred? Check.

P-Edit: Miller claim is +townpoints for sottyrulez.

[quadz08]

Oh, forgot. VOTE: Nicki Minaj

[quadz08]

Uh, actually, hold up, I mixed up allegiance and alignment. >_>

Nicki Minaj is probtown, then.

Unvote, Vote: quadz08

Preview: No. I'm just stupid.

Is this a serious vote?

[quadz08]

OMGUS HOOOOOOOOOOO!

Farday and Equinox's quick vote-switches are bad. Equinox not answering my question makes it worse.

However, NM's recent post solidifies my position on them. Vote stays for now.

[quadz08]

Farday and Equinox's quick vote-switches are bad. Equinox not answering my question makes it worse.

Plz to be explaining how quick vote switches benefit scum. And yeah, sometimes I don't reveal if my votes are serious or not, deal with it.

Speedy vote switches allow a player to pressure multiple players at once. Additionally, it causes confusion for the other players.

[quadz08]

^goodposting

Oh, wait.

[quadz08]

I dunno. I guess I'm probably just already stressed out from IRL stuff, but it was disorienting / confusing for me.

[quadz08]

..... Really? That's the basis of your case? Me asking for a genuine clarification, so I knew if I should respond seriously / ask for reasoning, or just ignore it?

[quadz08]

Sorry I haven't been around today. I had stuff happening all day, and a huge interview tomorrow morning. I'll post as soon as I can. Apologies.

[quadz08]

Woooo! School out, interview done, life is calming down sort of. Got finals next week, and then this semester is officially over.

Now for the post that took me entirely too long to put together! wooooo!

Town: AGM, Gamma, hito, MoI, Magua, sottyrulez

Scum: DDD

Scummish: NM, Kat, Mothrax

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DDD

---

DDD is reading scummy to me. His 8 posts contain basically no content. This is in particular is bad.

If someone has a useful and falsifiable reason for domain and/or alignment claiming then I'd be in favor of it, but far too often you do something like that and

people try to play outguess the mod isntead of scumhunting.

Even playing outguess the mod is better than nothing, which is what you've done. You've given NS town-cred, said you're leaning town on SR, and voted for me in your first post, with no reasoning attached to it.

Also, in ISO 6, you say "HAI GUYZ I AM TOWN TRUST ME" even though you've done literally nothing.

Lot of very likely town players at this stage, I think.

You have 12+ townreads? Care to list them for me, in one easily ISO-able place like your next post?

And you can't just list me 12 times either.

Sits under the radar, then calls himself obvtown? Yeah, no thanks.

---

quadz, why is a miller claim +townpoints but asking about alignments suspicious?

Miller claims are good. Asking fluff questions that get us nowhere are bad.

Most of Dup's case on VPB makes sense, but this line is bothersome:

In this post he states he'll stop posting for the sake of the game, this is at 1:21pm. He then posts at 1:30pm, 5:07pm, 8:35pm, 8:39pm, 9:05pm and 9:47pm with none of these posts providing showing active signs of scumhunting.

How is that a tell of any kind?

---

hito reads as town to me, but I am bothered by this bit in his ISO 17:

I'm just not so sure about putting energy into a system we don't understand nearly as well as the scum do.

While scum does have some more information than we do, I don't think that letting them worship unabated while we put in no worship of our own to combat it is a good idea. Granted, I'm not sure what the smart way to go about worshipping IS, but it's not to just not worship.

---

Kat, if you're gonna replace out, then do it. Jeebus. And try not to be so useless while you're waiting for your replacement, or whatever it is you're doing.

---

What do you think of Gamma’s ‘delayed’ Miller claim?

The way he did it was townish. He made a breadcrumb that seemed to be clear to those who knew the reference, and told everyone he'd be claiming soon right off the bat. I'm not sure WHY he waited, tbh, but the waiting wasn't scummy.

---

Mothrax: If that's not your whole case, then where is the whole case? Show me. Your lack of everything is disturbing.

---

NM is still suspicious, but the cop-esque ability they (foolishly) claimed seems like it would belong to town... Consider them scum-flavored null.

---

I want to call NS town, but... he NEVER seems town. Ffffffff. My scumpass is spinning everywhichaway on NS.



Sorry for the wall. See you all tomorrow!

[quadz08]

It's not just a matter of DDD not having posted content; that applies to Kat/Demonic Angel and Mothrax (both of whom I called out in that same post, btw), as well as RayFrost (who I completely forgot was even in the game, seeing as how he hasn't made a single post yet). It's a matter of not posting content, but still posting STUFF. He has a somewhat low postcount, yes, but not abnormally so. The problem is that in those 8 posts, he's contributed literally nothing except for 2 townreads, one vote (which I can only assume is on a scumread, since he didn't make a single comment about me before, in, or after that post), and one line saying "OMG I AM TOWN." And while the "omg I'm town" bit is a joke, that doesn't disqualify it from being a tell. DDD should be experienced enough to know that he had been under the radar, so making a joke-post saying "hey I'm town" is an excellent way to shift town's opinion towards that statement.

People with mothrax on their scum list need to fix their scumdar or die.

What makes you so sure that mothrax is town? (This goes for you too, Seraphim.) He's only made four damn posts. And yeah, so he sent an angry PM. He was upset because he felt attacked by AGM because AGM apparently continually brings up a time when mothrax's MOTHER GOT CANCER. That would piss me off, regardless of alignment. His PM is null at best.

[quadz08]

How do you expect me to respond? The extent of the case on me, afaik, is that I asked someone if their vote was serious, which I responded to. I haven't seen a single other point made against me. I have no case to defend against, unless I totally missed something, so I scumhunted. I ISOed every player in the game, and I posted anything I thought needed to be posted about. DDD is the scummiest player in the game right now, IMO.

What is this I don't even. That isn't even close to how that works unless we're all idiots.

We're not idiots, we're people. We're not really thinkiing about DDD, so he uses the power of suggestion to plant the idea that he's town. This is not a new concept.

[quadz08]

And didn't have Anything to say about the other wagons of today? nothing on parama or VV or Plum? Seriously?

Yes, seriously. I have null reads on all 3 of them, actually. Nothing real scummy, nothing real townie. No reason for me to waste space bringing them up.

[quadz08]

VPB's point has been nullified already. I've had a stressful, busy past few days, which I know that I at least mentioned earlier.

Gamma's post is not a tell or a push or an anything, it's saying 'look my Imma leave my random vote there because I think he's scummy now woooooo.' Nothing to respond to.

Sera, as to your three quotes, I'll admit I missed them. Fair enough. In response to them now, though:

1) How was my attack on NM bullshit? I'm very surprised that more people didn't jump on them for the same thing I pointed out. Fluff questions are a great way to appear townie while not actually contributing. And I'm sorry that I forgot to type in my vote in that post? I dunno what else can be said there.
2) I do not understand the point you are trying to make.
3) I honestly believe that I was confused by what was happening, because, you know, I was. I've since admitted that the 'pressuring multiple players' bit is not scummy, and I don't know why my brain decided to tell me that it was.

P-Edit: DA, why the FUCK would you just sit around and wait for the hydra account to be activated? I don't understand why telling us you were gonna do that makes it any less anti-town.

[quadz08]

Holy shit it's been an hour and a half and there are 4 MORE PAGES WHAT THE HELL

Who thinks alignments are related to allegiance? Will anyone admit to being a player whose alignment is [Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic] Evil, but whose allegiance is town?

That's the question you called "fluff". It's not fluff. It's a lot of things, but it's not fluff. Explain how exactly this is fluff.

... Umm, because it's useless speculation? Geeee whiz, I wonder if Vi is a REALLY PREDICTABLE MOD WHICH EVERYONE KNOWS IS NOT THE CASE. Come on, now.

2) I do not understand the point you are trying to make.
3) I honestly believe that I was confused by what was happening, because, you know, I was. I've since admitted that the 'pressuring multiple players' bit is not scummy, and I don't know why my brain decided to tell me that it was.

Yeah, I don't get it either. You should hunt down your 58 and explain exactly what the fuck you were talking about. In fact, I'll do it for you.

OMGUS HOOOOOOOOOOO!

Farday and Equinox's quick vote-switches are bad. Equinox not answering my question makes it worse.

However, NM's recent post solidifies my position on them. Vote stays for now.

Also, saying you were "confused" and "disoriented" is definitely NOT an excuse for what you did which is make possibly one of the scummiest statements I've ever seen used to justify an attack on a player. "DON'T LISTEN TO THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE QUICKLY VOTING OH NOES"

Sorry that you don't think it's a good excuse; it's the only one I've got.

Oh yeah, concerning the pensive comment, QUADZ, the comment by VP is NOT nulled because I still think you are very reserved in your posting. If you really are being unjustly framed and you're town, I personally would be flipping out all over the place if I was in your position. Yet your posts are very sterile....I don't like it.

Also, Faraday, you posted under the wrong account again.

Sorry that I'm a) not you and b) calm? How are these scummy again?

he's town. astop that.

No, Faraday, Mothrax is NOT town. At least, not based on anything he's posted (OR PMed, for that matter)

Sera makes a good point in AGM looking like he could be a lyncher. I don't know if I think that's the case, but the point is valid.

NM's big post o' reads gives them ++townpoints in my book. She has reasoning for every one of her reads (coughFaradaycough) and plus, I agree with most of them.

I approve of Singer asking to have the PM posted in-thread. I would like to see Mothrax ok that, just because of the possibly sensitive nature of the contents, but I hope that by putting it in the thread, we can have people stop saying that Mothrax is town for no reason.

btw, I would approve of a Parama lynch based on VI/anti-town-ness. See: Parama's most recent post.

[quadz08]

... no comprendo, senor.

[quadz08]

A Case in Four Part Harmony
by
mothrax

First, you have quadz ISO #2 which I have already waxed philosophic on once, but to restate: THIS IS SCUMMY! like uberscummy overreaction to one vote. "Is this serious because I need to know so I can play defense zomg"

responded to this already

Secondly, in ISO 3 we have the lovely "quickvoteswitchingisbadgais!" No, no it is not. There is not only one scum in this game (one would assume) so this gives players the ability to pressure more than one scum read. Were you just worried they would catch your buddy too?

responded to this already

(side note: ISO 7yes, yes it is, because it was overreaction and overdefensive.)

oh noez? this is a minor tell, and you based your whole future read of me around it. I mean, seriously, did you even look at any other players, or did you just hop back in and go "oh, I said this guy was scummy 15 pages ago, and everyone else still thinks so. I'll just stick with tunnelling him!"

Third: to disect ISO 9 piece by scummy piece:
The first line concerning DDD is scummy. The language in it is just begging for town approval before he goes all out. I for one use "reads scummy

to me

" much more often as scum. It gives you a chance to go back later and say "thats just me but since other people don't think so I am going to go back on that read"
His response to the Faraday/Magua/DDD quotenest is sooooo ubercontorted it isn't even funny. I skimmed that part once and could tell it was a joke... seriously? +scumpoints for trying to stretch a joke into a scumtell.
asking about alignments does not "not do us any good" IMO, and this reads like you are trying to push the town away from a line of questioning to cover your own rear. Setup speculation is good for the town (when used in conjunction with real scumhunting)

I'm glad you do that. I don't.
And, by god, I've EXPLAINED THAT ALREADY. Twice, I think. If you don't agree with me, then fine, go sit in the idiot corner. That doesn't make it a scumtell.
I have no idea what you're talking about in the third bit.

Also, your points on Dup and hito are "they are town but they could be scum." Do you enjoy waffles?
Oh look, you did it again with NS "I want to call him town but he is never town." You are just leaving all kinds of options open aren't you.

Ummm... No. They aren't. I said Dup's case made sense, except for one bit. Never mentioned his alignment. I said Hito read as town, but I disagreed with one of his ideas.
The NS bit I'll give you. I have no idea what to think of him.

hmmmm... I actually agree with the bottom of ISO 10. The top, not so much. How is Active Lurking a scumtell and Lurking not?

Active lurking is a scumtell because it shows that you're in the thread, reading along, keeping up, but not commenting on the game, thereby making you unreadable, and avoiding potentially controversial points. These are both good things for scum. Lurking is not a scumtell, it's just anti-town.

I've since admitted that the 'pressuring multiple players' bit is not scummy, and I don't know why my brain decided to tell me that it was.

Please show me where this was.

Looking back at my iso, I suppose I never actually said that. I admitted that due to being busy and stressed, my reads were affected oddly. In any case, I'm admitting it now.

Brilliant! For the smashing finale we have this little gem from ISO 15:

btw, I would approve of a Parama lynch based on VI/anti-town-ness. See: Parama's most recent post.

This comes at the end of a rather long post that makes me lol. The entire post is defending himself and then tacked on at the bottom is this lovely piece of work. Let's translate this shall we?
"ohai guyz, lets get the attention of of me, oh look, a wild Parama appeared, Lynch it!"

And there you have it.

First: my whole post is NOT defending myself. I make 3 or 4 points about other people directly before the Parama thing. Nice misrep, though.
Second: I have felt for a while now that lynching anti-town players early is good for town. Yes, I get plenty of flak for it in every game I bring it up. I will stand by that opinion until I am proven wrong. (just for the record, Parama is not VI; that was poor term use on my part. Anti-town is a much better descriptor.)

Also on catchup Quadz is looking much scummier. His points on DDD as accurate as they are, apply to many other players including himself at the point he made that vote. It's particularly the fact that he goes after DDD for something he's also guilty of doing that doesn't sit well with me.

Tell me what I accused DDD of that I am guilty of myself. I'm quite curious.

[quadz08]

DDD: My agreeing with them didn't give them more townpoints. That was just a bonus comment. Apologies if it appeared otherwise.
Ummm... so, as town, you feel the need to suggest, in a scummy way, that you're town?

RayFrost: I'm curious as to how you came to the conclusion that I am town if you've only read half the thread.

[quadz08]

Mothrax: what are "those," exactly?

[quadz08]

Oh, and apologies for the triple post, but Sera: good job on only responding to one part of my earlier post. And 'responding' is being used very loosely in this case.

[quadz08]

DDD: And I've expressed that those who don't think it's scummy can go hang out in the idiot corner.

RF: Fair enough, I suppose.

P-Edit: I still don't understand why that's scummy, Dup. VPB said it was in town's best interest for him not to post; in order for continuing to post to be a scumtell, that statement would have to actually be true, which I don't think it really is.
As to Parama, his reaction to the vig thing was, well, null. Honestly, his reaction was how any intelligent player, town or scum, should react.

[quadz08]

Here I come, soaring in like an eagle with a broken wing.

The thing I really dislike about Singer is the issue she made about the Mothrax PM which arguably lead to the modkill. I can't help but think that was deliberate.

Vote: Quadz

He's scum too.

... I expected more from the two of you. Go back and read Signer's posts again; if you think that's a scumtell, you need to find new brains.


RF questioning VPB's townread on him looks townie to me.

Plum's lack of participation is... odd. VPB's play has been off today as well. I'll have to re-read them both soon.

Can you tell me why quadz is scummier than them if you have meta and the like to support your cases? Not really following the <I don't agree with it, but it makes sense logic> of those two in contrast with the <I don't agree with it, and I have trouble even following it logic> of quadz-case. Might be due to the fact nobody's laid out a perfectly neat case for me. I have difficulty reading between the lines.

I agree with this whole paragraph, especially the bit at the end. I'd like a single, coherent case on me so I can respond to it coherently.

We shouldn't be claiming worships. With three kills, the possibility of being able to narrow down a liar to within three people is reduced, any confirmed non-liar group we can get at this point is probably just going to get gunned down tonight.

Besides, since I'm assuming most town worshipped N0 and N1, this will be the first night they can cast something, and so they probably will. I doubt there'll be a lot of worshipping going on tonight besides the mafia, which removes the other side of the claiming, so people know what they should be worshipping.

I completely agree with this. There's no way for someone to cast without receiving faith, so worshipping N0 and N1 seem like the only viable choices, except for those with the weird roles which are more or less guaranteed to exist in this game.

We definitely need to do a faith claim + a domain claim ..

Reasons are protown.

I have much reason to disagree with this statement.

Though, I don't think a domain/worship claim today is the way to go either.

This seems to be an odd contradiction...

Regarding today/questions I didn't discuss above: I super cannot say that I just want to get a few more votes on Quadz today. I do not think that is the plan and am fairly dismayed that it seems to be on the agenda. If there's any good news it's that my top scumpicks may well be properly connected to Quadz, but.

... what?

Well I guess Plum is scum too.

I'm getting pretty tired of this shit, Faraday. Explain your reads. Seriously.

In case people missed it, ISO MoI in this game, notice how he was gone all weekend, then search his user posts to see how active he was while on 'V/LA' for the weekend while scum-quadz was getting run up. That's all.

MoI didn't go V/LA... nice try at the misrep, though.


Gamma: READ THREAD PLZ. People did bother with it; it's just being ignored because no one has presented any good reasons for it.

Also, if you are quadz-town, neighborizing singersinger is a bad play. She did not have a record of being protown the day before and isn't known for having exceptional scumhunting abilities. However, as scum, it makes perfect sense, since he could use it to try and manipulate her.

singersinger making this all up is also a possibility.

I chose Singer because I know she's good at reading me, and I have a townread on her. And no, she's not making this up.


Faraday: why did you respond to Parama, but not Plum?


Aaaanad now, without further ado... A CLAIM.

CLAIM

I am the High Priest of DrippingGoofball. My domains are Syncretism and Whimsy. My alignment is Chaotic Evil.

My only abilities are Worship and Cast.

My Casts are as follows:
Mystify (1 Faith) - Protects a target from a Kill. Also acts as a Roleblock on Lawful players.
Super Secret French Cabal (3) - Permanently neighborizes me with a player of my choice.
Wagonalysis Scumputer (4) - Kills the player who has been, on average, the last on wagons so far in the game.
Coconut Launcher (4) - Kills a target player as long as their alignment is Good.
Oh crap (5) - Allows me to hide behind a player of my choice.

I did not worship N0, in the hopes of having a usable action N1.
I used Super Secret French Cabal on Singer on N1.

Oh! almost forgot.

DDD's still scum.

VOTE: DDD

[quadz08]

... You're an idiot. Just fyi.

First, didn't have the Faith to vig. Only got 3.
Second, didn't have anyone worth doctoring. Might as well prevent the mislynch.

[quadz08]

Jeebus. Look, the only player I thought likely to get hit was NM-town (and that's only because of the claim), and I was far from sure that NM was town. Besides, my doc is also an RB, and in a game like this, RBing

anybody

could be bad news.

[quadz08]

First, you can't stockpile Faith. Checked with Vi on N0 on that one.
Second, yeah, which makes it more difficult for a) scum to pick a kill and b) for me to pick what their kill is.
Third, AGM, did you READ D1? Seriously. Almost every damn player called her town. And besides, like I said, she can read me better than anyone else on the site. You know this, you were in Mordor.

[quadz08]

I LIKE HOW ALL MY SCUMREADS ARE TRYING TO DIVERT THIS WAGON.

LOLOL NM IS MY ONLY TOWN READ AND I CAN PROTECT BUT NO IMMA GO AND NEIGHBORIZE SOMEONE INSTEAD

YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY SCUMCLAIM ANY HARDER THAN THAT.

IF THERE IS A VIG OUT THERE, HITO AND RAYRAY ARE BOTH VERY ACCEPTABLE SHOTS FOR TONIGHT.

Right, because I totally said NM was a town read. Oh, wait...


NS: POST BETTER PLZ

@AGM: He's busy raging in our QT about CYS.

You know what. Wait.

This is a lie.

Unvote, Vote: Demonic Angel

First: how do you know it's a lie? Second: Why is it worth voting for?

Oh @ Hito- Parama has been at least partially intentionally scummy. Although doing it to the extent he has is irritating, it's not nearly as scummy as someone who's been trying to look town and failed miserably.

How, precisely, do you know that Parama has been intentionally scummy? Were you talking to him on N0, perhaps? (No, you're not a scumread, you're painfully town. The point is that "He's been scummy ON PURPOSE IT'S OK YOU GUYS" is fucking stupid.)

If you'd like some more on why it's not town it's because it's WAY too cautious- it's basically a jailkeep at WORST and he chose to not use it at all, and he even had someone that if he thought he was scum he could just roleblock them as well 100% (sotty). It's like he was so worried about being called out for a POSSIBLE roleblock that he would rather stay alive longer than potentially do something godamn helpful.

Jeebus, maybe I was too cautious. Fine then, my bad. I just feel like having a good chance (1/3, statistically speaking) of RBing the claimed cop, was not worth the 1/24 chance he'd be NK'ed. Even accounting for a few people that weren't getting NK'ed by scum (me, for example) there's still somewhere around a 1/20 chance of a shot on the cop. And the cop wasn't even completely sane; I honestly think it was a pretty good shot for us anyway. Their results would have been massive WIFOM, and NM was far from the towniest of the town, nor were they a particularly good player (considering this playerlist).


Seraphim's 847 is an excellent point. I'm very interested to hear Hito's response. EDIT: Response made sense.

He claimed it in other games...which you probably would have seen had you looked. Nice not reading there.

Sorry that I didn't feel the need to check his other games when it makes no sense for him to only post it in some of them. Myyyyy bad. (sidenote: wtf, MoI?)

Hey guys
If I post a nice big Rayfrost case
Will you lynch him next? quadz lynch needs to happen but Rayfrost lynch needs to happen too.

I would read your case. I'm curious to see what you find scummy on RF, cause he looks pretty town to me.


MoI's case on DA in 855 seems weak to me. I plan on looking over DA's ISO soon anyway, though. The discussion about the battery life is pretty pointless as well, IMO; we've got half a normal day. Accept it and run with it as is. We're not getting anywhere by talking about who's fault it was.

Quadz is scum because he's done nothing and that was also his reasoning for going after DDD. (so now he can look like he is doing something.) The only thing that makes going after him today different from d1 is that he has a nice shiny looking roleclaim with action to throw in to make people waiver on lynching him.

Right... I've done nothing, but then when I make a case on someone (which you specifically mention in this post) it doesn't count as doing anything, it only counts as

pretending

to do something. Confirmation bias sighted, Captain!

I've been ignoring the idea there are significant abilities in this game. I know the OP had one, and the thing Mina was talking about might've been an ability instead of a cast, but having significant abilities on either side is just silly when the entire point of the system is built around Casts.

Wait... what? Really? "I know that there's evidence to the contrary, but I'm basing my beliefs on this ANYWAY." +scumpoints for you.

@Ray - you've never played with a person simultaneously in two games and think "Hey, he's of different alignments in both?" - that's my reasoning .. Not saying more because I don't want to tempt another modkill ..

That is a) bulllshit and b) dangerously close to breaking rules.


ITT everybody says "lynch quadz" and yet has provided 0 cases for me to respond to (like I asked for in my earlier post). VPB especially is a culprit of this... 6/6 most recent posts say "lynch quadz" with no additional reasoning. (I'm not counting his unofficial votecount in that tally.) There's not even any other content in those posts. The post right before that has brief responses to 2 or 3 lines in my post, but it's mostly dismissals. Before that? MOAR REQUESTING TO LYNCH ME (though there is at least some content in those posts.) VPB is getting impatient. He wants this mislynch done fast.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: VPB

ISOs to come on DA, VPB, DDD, and probably others too.

[quadz08]

Now we play which wagon will save you from this lynch.

Hint: none

Lol @ my first vote-switch all day being picking a wagon which will save me.

[quadz08]

Go team!

Sorry I was useless and got 3 of us killed basically immediately. *confetti*

Faraday and Parama, ye be gods.

[quadz08]

Go team!

Sorry I was useless and got 3 of us killed basically immediately. *confetti*

Faraday and Parama, ye be gods.

There are times when dying helps our team out more than staying alive. This game was a good example of that.

Fair enough. I wish I hadn't brought singer and hito down with me, though... however, I do blame hito at least partially for that. The whole "neighborize singer for desperate proof of innocence" was his idea, and I don't think singer or I really ever fully bought into it.

[quadz08]

Dear god, will MoI and Fate shut up? You both have egos the size of planets. Get over your mutual dislike, or at least take it out of this thread.

[quadz08]

Vi, I would love to help you mod something if you'll have me.