Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[Nicki Minaj]

Vote: Faraday.

Hi.

[Nicki Minaj]

Welcome all, and thanks to our wonderful, well-meaning (yes, I like the letter W) mod Vi for running this great game in such an orderly fashion.

Also, goddamn Nikanor ninja-ing me before I could make my own original random vote.

Vote: MOI

Scum caught pre-game.
Faraday is his buddy.

Refresh my memory of the pregame. What interaction? Is this a serious vote?

Let's get things moving with some

obvious role-fishing that will get us lynched D1

theory speculation.

Who thinks alignments are related to allegiance? Will anyone admit to being a player whose alignment is [Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic] Evil, but whose allegiance is town?

[Nicki Minaj]

Stop interfering with my attempts to role-fish, Faraday.

Seriously, there is a reason I'm asking this question.

[Nicki Minaj]

I could make a flippant comment along the lines of "Is that why you haven't been checking our QT," but obviously the only answer I'm going to give to that question is "No, I'm not." What reason in particular?

[Nicki Minaj]

Seriously, there is a reason I'm asking this question.

I don't think anyone doubts there's a reason for it. We just doubt your allegiance, that's all.

Who's "we," out of curiosity?

You? You and Faraday? The town as a whole?

I thought it was just "bad vibes" you had. But by "doubt your allegiance," are you implying that my outright asking someone to claim being town evil is scummy? Null, but you don't like other aspects of my play? I'm really self-centred. I just have to know what you think about me.

[Nicki Minaj]

Hey Mina, do you know what Vi/Spyrex think about sanity-confirmed cops?

Not sure where you're heading with this, but yes, I know they despise them.

@Seraphim: fair enough on the "insincere scumhunting" part, because to be honest, I only singled out Katsuki's comment because I didn't see anything else worth poking at. The post itself wasn't scummy, but maybe he'd have reacted defensively, or explained himself openly in a way that seemed townish, or started a wagon on us, or just said something that would have changed the tone of the thread. There's no such thing as a useless question on Page One of RVS, IMO.

But I don't care if you think it's insincere scumhunting. Who's "we"?

It's not nitpicking over pronouns. It's because that line felt out of place (Nikanor got the same vibe as well). Basically, it felt like you were discrediting me by going, "We, the town, all agree that you are scummy, and therefore, we shouldn't listen to your suggestion," when you were the only person who weighed in on my suggestion (other than Faraday, who SEEMED to find it scummy based on his initial question, but apparently didn't).

Also, believe it or not, I'd be against a mass alignment claim at this juncture. I just decided to ask evil-aligned town players to claim for several different reasons.

Hmm, the jury's still out on Seraphim and Faraday.

[Nicki Minaj]

Sotty, what's your alignment?

[Nicki Minaj]

...Actually, hang on, that was Nikanor. You don't have to claim it, Sotty. Hang on, to the AIM-mobile.

~Mina

[Nicki Minaj]

(We're in agreement that our question to sottyrulez can wait...ooh! Just thought of something. Sotty, are you Troll himself? Your role name has no other descriptor?)

Faraday, wasn't your reaction to my first post "Mina, are you scum?" That's pretty much implying you found it scummy. Now you seem to find that post townish (or at least, my question about evil-aligned town players), but my reaction to your question "interesting." What exactly prompted your question? I feel as though you keep on oscillating between implying you think I'm town and implying you think I'm scum.

[Nicki Minaj]

I was in the middle of typing up responses to Plum, quadz, and Faraday, but first things first:

@hito and Equinox: I asked sottyrulez that question because I was looking for this answer from Zach:

Exact role name is High Priest/Priestess of Zorblag.

He originally called himself Troll, not a High Priest/ess of Troll.

Faraday is town for 45.

hitogoroshi is scum for calling Faraday town for a post that consists of nothing but a vote for a player who hitogoroshi is not voting for, and who hito has not even mentioned once all game, in a post in which hito does not provide his own opinion of quadz08.

Come to think of it, I think the only player hito has questioned all game is me, for pretty much the exact same reasons quadz did (my question being useless because

obviously

he was scum). Why was it more important to tell us that Faraday is town for voting quadz than that quadz is scum?

VOTE: hitogoroshi

What's awesome about this wagon is that we'll find out within ten minutes if you actually

are

scum.

Preview-edit: got ninja'd by half a page. I can buy hito believing Nobody Special is the policy lynch of policy lynches, but still want an explanation for that Faraday post.

~Mina

[Nicki Minaj]

Eh. Do you think that, if sottyrulez's response had been different, there would have been significance.

Um...yes? Because every player in this game should be a high priest of a Scummer, as opposed to the Scummer himself?

Seriously, are you trying to give me a taste of my own medicine or something? Do you think you're going to learn anything of significance from

that

question?

I don't think Quadz is scum. The answer in his 58 makes his nervousness feel null. I do think that burning political capital to see if someone scumslips is something townies do far more often than scum. Scroll to the post above Faradays (Quadz 44) and it makes more sense.

Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding you, but what do you mean, "burning political capital"? It's not as though Faraday played a clever gambit on quadz. From Faraday, a vote without explanation in response to a post is a complete null tell.

Also, "the only player hito has questioned all game" on page four? Really?

If you are posting during that time frame, then you can be held accountable for not doing as much with those posts as you could be. But anyway, my point wasn't that you hadn't questioned enough people; it was that you hadn't done anything to suggest you suspected quadz (in fact, your actions until then implied you agreed with him).

[Nicki Minaj]

This is a silly power to give to scum; it's not like scum particularly benefit from double day.

See: Mafia at the 11th Hour, modded by Vi. The scum had pro-town abilities and the town had pro-survival abilities.

Mina and I have discussed the AGM/mothrax thing, and we both think that although AGM's ability is slightly suspicious, his posts look town.
Neither of us are particularly interested in lynching mothrax, though, and I think that mothrax's reaction is slightly town. Getting 12 votes on mothrax will take a few days, and we likely won't get any more than 12-14 days for this game day. The fact that AGM is trying this policy lynch pretty much confirms that he has the ability, and that's enough for me for now.

[Nicki Minaj]

I'm too tired to finish my response to Plum, so before I go to bed, I'll just summarize my inchoate reads.

hitogoroshi, you've seen Faraday as scum before, right? Do you think he casts unexplained votes more often as town? See, from some players, I'd understand your POV that it might draw attention to them, but this is a complete null tell with Faraday.

I don't like that my reasons for my hito vote have changed since I cast it, but I'm still uneasy with him. I find hito sometimes has odd theories as town, but I still REALLY dislike his back-and-forth with AGM trying to paint him as scummy for a role decision. I agree that mothrax wasn't the number one choice, but the bickering in this topic has proven that AGM and mothrax have bad blood together. It's not as though NS is SOOOOOOO much better that anyone who DIDN'T choose him is obvNSbuddy.

Duplicity's two posts felt like wishy-washy passionless scum filler. Also, boo for parroting hito on his AGM point. Might move our vote there, although it feels a bit easy.

Okay with the quadz wagon, but I might be biased because he, Seraphim and Plum are all scum for voting for me. People piled on him quickly, so I'll look elsewhere for now.

Nikanor already discussed our read of AGM. And I'm certain that AGM didn't make up the idea of his role, at least. Just to nitpick: I'm considering a mothrax lynch unless I get a stronger town read on him. From my PoV, AGM vigged mothrax on N0, and we have the choice of stopping or allowing the kill.

My other head thinks Seraphim is scum, but I'm more null on him. I didn't get what Seraphim was driving at re: domains, so I missed why everyone is convinced he's obvtown. Will be very interested to see his posts tomorrow.

Meh, I'm sure there's someone I'm forgetting, but this is long enough.

However, NM's recent post solidifies my position on them. Vote stays for now.

Ugh, I hate it when people go, "Yeah, X's recent post totally solidifies my confirmation bias" without explaining why

particularly when X is me

.

Your position on us was that we were asking an obvious question for town cred. That was a fair enough attack early in the game (although easy, since I was already drawing heat). But the post you said solidified your read was basically just me questioning Faraday. Um...

what

?

Hey, singersigner, when you get back here, I'd be interested in hearing

your

read on quadz. You know why I'm asking this.

Although I guess I don't see Mina-scum asking the question about Evil Aligned players. But then your refusing to answer my question is scummy. I dunno.

This is also to Plum, but are you saying you expected a serious answer to that question? I'm just curious, how do you think scum would react to that question, and how would town react?

If it makes you happy,

no

. I'm not scum. I feel ridiculous for even posting that.

Had something for Equinox here, but she's looking very town now, so I'll drop her off the Players to Aggressively Spam With Questions List. Won't list my other town reads.

-Mina

[Nicki Minaj]

The thing I don't get is why Gamma and sottyrulez have specific miller passives when my cop-type Cast says I get Mafia on Evil roles and Town on Chaotic roles. Seems kinda redundant. Doesn't really matter I guess but I'll be keeping one of my eyes on Gamma and SottyZach.

Anyway Magua is probtown, etc. I'm not really feeling Mina's hito vote any more so I'm going to risk waking her dragon by voting for StretchyPlum.

Unvote. Vote: Plum.

[Nicki Minaj]

Mafia on Evil roles and Town on Chaotic

Please clarify for me if there's a typo here.

No typos. Mina asked Vi pre-game what we'd get on Chaotic Evil and she refused to tell us, if that's what you're wondering.

[Nicki Minaj]

It's a cop inspect, Magua. I'm just naive toward chaos and paranoid toward evil. If I inspect someone who is neither chaotic nor evil, I get a sane result.
I dunno how this ability is useful as scum could just fakeclaim neutral as chaotic. If it were useful I wouldn't be claiming it. :\

[Nicki Minaj]

The Minaj half is back from work and catching up. Briefly:

It's a cop inspect, Magua. I'm just naive toward chaos and paranoid toward evil. If I inspect someone who is neither chaotic nor evil, I get a sane result.
I dunno how this ability is useful as scum could just fakeclaim neutral as chaotic. If it were useful I wouldn't be claiming it. :\

Actually, our inspect targets would have just claimed their real alignment had we asked them to claim out of the blue (framing it as though we'd found something incriminating), because scum would've had no way whatsoever of knowing that Chaotic players give us naive results...had you...um...not just revealed that to the town right now.

>_>

Well, now that the cat's out of the bag, I asked town-aligned evil players to claim primarily because I wanted to know whom not to waste an investigation on. To be honest, I would have rather we'd sat on that piece of information until at least D3-4.

So I don't suppose there's any town-aligned evil player whose role PM DOESN'T call him a miller?

[Nicki Minaj]

GUYS I HAVE META ON PARAMA THAT SAYS THAT HE IS SCUM. 100%.
Gonna discuss this with Mina first though so brb.

Also

Lets take a look at VP's post for a second. In this post he:
1. Fencesits over Niki Minaj providing a massive overexplanation over why he has a null-read on her.
2. Asks "Does he always play defensively like this when he's town?" in regards to Quarz. I've read over this multiple times and everytime I read it the phrasing seems to imply he thinks Quadz is town however he votes Quadz in this post.
3. States he isn't going to be sure Sotty is town unless he dies and flips town? Okay...that's just fluff.

In this post he states he'll stop posting for the sake of the game, this is at 1:21pm. He then posts at 1:30pm, 5:07pm, 8:35pm, 8:39pm, 9:05pm and 9:47pm with none of these posts providing showing active signs of scumhunting.

Unvote, Vote VP Baltar

^Distancing.

[Nicki Minaj]

Nicki Minaj, if you believe my post was an attempt at distancing that means you too believe VP is mafia so can you kindly move your vote to him?

NEVER.
Actually I think that Mina wanted to vote for VPB and thought that you were town, but when I see someone buddy/distance/etc, I like to vote for the person doing the thing I think is scummy. Which I'll do as soon as I convince Mina that she's wrong and you're scum.

[Nicki Minaj]

MINA WANTS ME TO TELL YOU ALL THAT THE META THING WITH PARAMA WAS AN INSIDE JOKE. APPARENTLY JUST "FORGETTING" THAT I SAID THAT WOULD BE DISHONEST AND SHE DOESN'T APPROVE OF DISHONESTY AS TOWN.
YEAH. GO FIGURE.

^Mina

[Nicki Minaj]

If you want conclusions, here's a sneak peak: We're avoiding any domain with more than one worship tonight. We're probably worshiping Justice and Balance if neither of them have any worships. But we're going to need to create two lists of roughly equal "net towniehood" (unless we're domain/worship claiming, which we probably shouldn't) because all piling on one of the two domains is bad news bears.

You know, worship results are never made public. Every player is sent a PM at the end of the day with their usable faith for the night. So idk how you're planning on doing this.

Duplicity's case is distancing because he made it on a player that didn't have any votes and wasn't attracting any attention. The case is terrible and has a lot of fluff. This implies that Duplicity already knows that VPB is scum and is making as big a case as possible so that he can point back to it later.

[Nicki Minaj]

You know, worship results are never made public. Every player is sent a PM at the end of the day with their usable faith for the night. So idk how you're planning on doing this.

I had actually sent Vi a PM about this this morning; have not gotten a response yet. Is this your reading, or is it verified somehow?

If it's the case that it's just a faith total, there's still a workable plan, the details of which should be obvious to hito but which shouldn't be made public until D2 to keep the scum from planning ahead. Assuming hito isn't scum, which I'm still doing.

@Parama:

k, just verifying. I'm actually getting to the point where I'm not regretting you dying even if you flip town.

We PM'd Vi about it in pre-game. That was the response.

If the workable plan involves everyone claiming faith and domains and interpolating the faith for each domain that way, it's not a very good plan.

[Nicki Minaj]

While you're here, what do you think of Duplicity's case on VPB?

[Nicki Minaj]

Distancing-Duplicity-scum voting VPBaltar-scum-partner also sort of implies VasudeVa-town. Do you believe that?

I could see it. I haven't really been reading VV's posts too closely but nothing stands out there.

[Nicki Minaj]

Do you have a reason for thinking that Justice/Balance are town other than flavour?

[Nicki Minaj]

Because if Vi is anything like I think she is, there is scum in every domain.

[Nicki Minaj]

Vi: please prod RayFrost.

I've been terrible this game. Thank God Nikanor has been making us look obvtown while I've been slacking off.

Also, thank God I'm not 100% sober right now, so I don't feel like overthinking this post.

I'm not going to bother commenting on every little thing I've missed, but these are my reads (sorry, singersigner, but I won't even bother making sure that OMG WE'RE A HYDRA AND NOT CONTRADICTING EACH OTHER, because he's not on AIM and we're never going to agree 100% anyway):

[

b]Town:[/b]

Gammagooey: Too lazy to explain this one, because duh.
Equinox: she's soooooo town. Like, she drops a hundred towntells in every post.
Magua: This feels a lot like ASOS Magua. Only reservation is that he accused me of only suspecting him when he voted for us in ASOS, so I should probably be suspicious of him for calling us the towniest townie ever. But then again, it was

Nikanor

he found townie, not me.
sottyrulez: My one stab of paranoia is that I haven't agreed with all her observations (for example, feel like Plum has been far from the most opportunistic player in this game--a quadz vote would've been MUCH more opportunistic than a Parama one at that moment). Also, Sotty thinks that I'm a reactive lunatic who suspects everyone who votes for me, so her calling me town and chainsawing me should probably make me paranoid. But their miller claim still is consistent with Gammagooey's, and her scumhunting has felt genuine. By the way, Sotty, why do you suspect hitogoroshi?

Leaning Town

AGM: his power is real, I'm sure of it, but also his frustration reads as townish.
ooba: I agree that town is more likely to ask people to worship his faction. Still would like to see him take a more active scumhunting role.
Faraday: Some of his posts and thought processes come across as very townish. One problem is that a few of his reads seem to come out of nowhere. Where is the Katsuki-town read coming from? How the fuck are you so confident in MoI-town when I

know

you've said multiple times that you find MoI's town play and scum play hard to distinguish?
singersigner: Got the same vibes Equinox did, that her catch-up post felt very open and honest. I didn't like her finding quadz scummy and voting him

after

everyone else put pressure on her to do so, as well as her out-of-the-blue supporting the policy lynch on mothrax, though. I also agree that her saying she'd probably vote Nobody Special on policy after a reread is off (who pointed this out? I forget). Meh, she's in this category mostly on gut. Logic says there are problems with her posts.
Plum: Nikanor will kill me for this one. I didn't like her initial bloated frame-case on us, but I kind of liked her later catch-up post. I think it's always Plum's modus operandi as either alignment to post catch-up walls. I mean, Nikanor's reasons for suspecting her were that she was playing like she did in

Of Gods and Men

.

She was a survivor, not Mafia, in

Of Gods and Men

. By the way, I don't know if she still wants a response to that case of hers, since the conversation has moved on.
Seraphim: moved him to this category because his catch-up posts feel fairly honest. That said, I don't like how he went from thinking we were scummy (when we were under heat) to "omg, that quadz is SO scummy for placing such a crappy vote on poor, innocent Nicki Minaj" (when we were treated as town and quadz was the leading wagon. (Faraday's reasons for thinking he's sooooo town are crap, because we're town so Seraphim getting "bad vibes" from our first post isn't a town tell.)

Neutral

mothrax: yes, when Nikanor prompted me to look at his posts, I kinda saw where his town vibe was coming from. That said, WHY THE FUCK IS HE ALL OF A SUDDEN CONFIRMED TOWN JUST BECAUSE HE SENT AN ANGRY PM. Couldn't he be angry at being chosen as a policy lynch, but still scum? I almost AM leaning toward taking advantage of the free lynch on him, come to think of it. His vote for quadz felt opportunistic. Too bad Nikanor would kill me if I did (omg,

hydra fence-sitting

. Lynch us!)
Duplicity: I'm dropping him to neutral both in deference to Nikanor's scum read on him, and because on an ISO read, I'm not really sure where I got those strong town vibes. He doesn't really say much in his posts. A few comment from the Regfan head rang as townish, though, and I agreed with most of his reads in that big list. It was this quote that gave me the town read, FTR:

Spoiler:

I have a lot of town reads but G thinks it's better to withold them for now so I'll do so. I don't like the VV votes, intially I did but his last few posts scream town. I've played with him before when he was scum, he tends to avoid the case against him rather than full on confront it. I can understand the Quadz votes, leaning scum on him though I think there's too much focus on him right now, he's likely to become easier to read later into the game. Paramas arrogance and rage is a town-tell, Magua you should know better than to vote him here.

Don't like how quickly he backed down from the "I'm not giving town reads" thing, in retrospect. Felt like he wanted more protown points by showing he had a suspect list.
VV: haha, I have to admit, I've kind of done the same thing Nikanor has done and sort of skimmed his posts. But from what I have read of him, he's given me REALLY mixed towntells and scumtells. His first posts were pretty terrible, particularly the whole "Why are you paying attention to me instead of someone else?" thing. But then his aggressive OMGUS-ing on MoI felt townish. He may drop to the scum category when I have time to ISO him.
MoI: In all honesty, I haven't reread him closely enough. I got town vibes from his first post (maybe it's how he cleared Katsuki), but since then I feel as though he's been very passive. His back-and-forth with VP Baltar felt kind of nitpicky.
Katsuki/Demonic Angel: I really don't get where all the town reads on him are coming from, because his posts have been utter fluff. But I can't read Katsuki for beans.
Nobody Special: Congratulations for being completely fucking unreadable.
hitogoroshi: Nice try, hito. If you think you're going to fool me by going, "Omigod, I'm going to be all protown by making a strategy for domain worshipping,

just like I did in Stars Aligned

, so guys, isn't that so townie?" you've got another thing coming. You've discussed your scum meta for far too long with me on AIM. Why don't you devote your effort toward an ISO extravaganza rather than a worshipping plan? I've disagreed with much of what hito has said this game.

Almost

put him in the Scummy category, but his ISO 11 is good. His finding a towntell from NS also felt genuine. I'd rather give him a day or so to breathe, because if he's town, it'll become apparent soon enough.

Hey, Faraday, what do you think of hitogoroshi?

Scummy (it's too hard to distinguish between "Leaning Scum" and "Scum" so early in the game, so decided to group them together)

DDD: his posts have all been fluffy active lurking and buddying. Has he actually provided a concrete opinion this game? That said, I doubt he's Baltar's buddy based on his first post claiming he'd sheep Baltar.
quadz: To answer Faraday's question from way back, I was okay with his wagon in principle simply because I had no reason to think he was town at this point. I wasn't fond of his vote for us or his "is this vote serious reaction", but he wasn't my top suspect. Almost had him at only a mild scum read after his catch-up post, but his most recent defence posts feel off. I'll also trust that singersigner has the magic touch at reading you. I don't want to vote for him just yet when he's so close to a lynch, though.
Parama: Nikanor actually wanted to vote Parama, IIRC. I'm still a horrible slacker and haven't read the scum meta game Nik linked me to. I just suck at reading players like Parama, but Nik's argument was that Parama's tunneling is an excuse to mask his lack of scumhunting. At this point, there's no way Parama should be

that

confident that Magua is scum.
VP Baltar: His first post was okay. But god, his responses to Magua were soooooo bad. I actually feel like Magua said much of what I wanted to say about how terrible his "why are you looking at

me

" response is. He's

way

too jumpy every time someone looks at him sideways. I think what initially made me want to vote him was his making a big deal of how singer OMG, DIDN'T VOTE QUADZ IMMEDIATELY. If the dinner I was supposed to be at hadn't started half an hour ago, I'd make an actual concrete case on him. Put that on the to-do list.

Insufficient Data:

RayFrost

VOTE: VP Baltar

In all honesty, many of these reads are in flux. I'm too lazy to reread anyone in ISO right now, and I'm running late, so maybe I've missed a smoking gun somewhere.

~Mina

[Nicki Minaj]

For the record, that was cross-posted with the last two pages, so if someone has claimed scum since then, I didn't notice.

@Faraday: okay, so let's say mothrax was scum. How would he have reacted differently to AGM having decided he was the best policy lynch in the game on D1, based on his flaking due to his mother's breast cancer? Would he have been resigned to his lynch?

Also, please explain Katsuki-obvtown to me as though I were really, really stupid. Maybe then, I'd get it. Right now,

I don't see it.

Please give actual

arguments

for why Katsuki is so blindingly obvtown. I can't read Katsuki. Show me the light.

Explain to me the difference between MoI-scum and his play here, while you're at it. Give specific examples. I'm pretty sure I REMEMBER you saying MoI is impossible to read.

Yes, I know you hate ever explaining anything. But please. I

want

words. I won't figure it out if you just call them "obvtown." They will help me come to an informed opinion on Katsuki, MoI, and

you

.

Now I'm really off.

[Nicki Minaj]

JUST SHEEP ME FOR FUCK SAKE. idk it's all gut. you fucking know i'm not going to be able to explain anyway so why boher asking? i hate you

I HATE YOU MORE!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! *bangs head against a wall until I lose all my braincells*

Oh, bullshit. You're capable of explaining yourself in a hydra QT. Explain it. E-X-P-L-A-I-N it. I don't care if it takes you five fucking hours to write a paragraph. There is no way you cannot articulate your own thought processes on such a rudimentary level that you cannot say, "Katsuki made this post that felt sincere."