Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[HezLucky]

Con-firm

[HezLucky]

- I agree with Amrun #52 I am opposed to a speedlynch of any kind on anyone, even on later days because it does
not give us the information we need.

- I would never policy lynch someone I haven't played with before. So I am going to go ahead with the RVS and

Vote: mozamis

for his short post 61

[HezLucky]

Hi guys.

A few posts caught my attention.

LlamaFluff #78 - His response to DeathNote irritates me. Specifically, the quote "So you want a policy lynch of
vezok, but you want to draw it out?". First of all, that's REALLY obvious - he wants to lynch someone (for whatever
reason) but wants the town to have the chance to discuss for future days. Regardless of DeathNote's alignment, that
logic makes perfect sense. LlamaFluff's response, to that, (and his post #78 in general) seems like an attempt to
ask leading questions to accuse people of scum. This is not inherently scummy, if your leading questions make sense,
but for a player as experienced as Llama to target DeathNote so explicitly with that statement (one that makes no
sense from a mafia theory perspective) just screams of a good player trying to exert his influence to get what he
wants, and in this case, Llama is scum and is frivously pushing for any lynch he can find. (I make no statement on
DN's alignment, but

FOS: LlamaFluff

) .. that was originally a vote, but then I read Llama #97 and so I feel
a bit better about this.

Llama #101 is just spouting mafia theory, so I hope no one tries to get a read based on that post.


Yosarian2 #79 - This post is highly noncommittal by Yosarian. Like Llama, I don't like the usage of asking questions
here.

I don't at all get what you're trying to say. If you think he was trying to repeat what I said, then why was it "scummy" or "contradictory"? What "mistake" do you think he made, that may more may not have been a "slip", but is "scummy"? What do you want him to clarify?

This post really feels like Toon Fighter is trying to have it both ways about the death note case, trying to attack Death Note and "sound reasonable" at the same time, and I dislike it.

Lots of questions to suggest that the person is scummy, and a vague statement that tries to sway people to his side while being too passive to really make it seem to anyone like he cares about this wagon. Yos2/Toon Fighter buddies?


DeathNote #80 - guys, this is fine logic in theory IF you believe that Vez is scum. I don't believe anyone who thinks
Vez is town should be lynching on this logic. I don't think DeathNote should be attacked for this particular post
either.


DeathNote #113 on ToonFighter #106 - DN is right. It seems like ToonFighter isn't really reading the game and is just
looking for a wagon to hop on. Well, why didn't you say so instead of pretending like you are trying?

Other -
- generally like Amrun
- Bamboo #89 - refuse to make a read on someone on stupid posts like this. People should stop doing them. They aren't
funny.
- Look, my vote shouldn't be on mozamis. That was a random vote. My vote needs a better place. The fact is, I could see Yos2/Toon Fighter scum based on above. (I don't like the DN wagon, if you couldn't tell. Two of my suspects, Llama and Toon were the second and third votes on that wagon to get it going) and Amrun (who is my only town read atm) has his vote on TF. I have largely agreed with pretty much everything he has said in this game and I agree with this as well.

Vote: Toon Fighter

[HezLucky]

Unvote, Vote: Toon Fighter

I shoulda unvoted. My reasoning for this vote is explained in a previous post.

I've got two final exams coming up, one tomorrow and one Friday. I'm completely free after that so I will post something big at that time.

[HezLucky]

Reread the ENTIRE game. If anything's inconsistent with my previous post, it's because I reread pages 1-6 as well and thus may have acquired
new reads (Amrun/Deathnote are notable examples). Prepare for a wall. (and apologies for this coming late)

The game as I see it:
- Vez claimed VT in Post #28. This is a null read tho I hate VI's.
- Primate #36 is silly WIFOM. Null read unless they are scum together.
- I have a town-read on Porochaz #43. It seems to me as if he's frustrated on VI's being difficult to read, which impedes on his scumhunting. I
feel the same way.
- Vezok #57 - I don't understand how he can find someone wanting to take his time to allow the town to discuss as being scummy.
- I like Medicated Lain Post #59. Good reasoning.
- My read on DeathNote has actually changed from first time around due to post #73. At the bottom, it seems like he's trying really hard to just
reiterate Yos's reasoning, without really coming up with his own.
- However, LlamaFluff #78 IS poor. The "so you want a policy lynch of Vezok, but you want to draw it out?" is not only a blatant leading question,
but having played with Llama and knowing that he is an experienced player I would expect far better than for him to throw a baseless accusation on
DeathNote for that. DeathNote's reasoning is simple -- he wants to allow the town to gain information from the day. For a player experienced like
Llama, this is a definite scumtell. I also don't agree with his choice of wagons in that post, and his asking of nothing but questions is
offputting at best.
- don't remember why I had a townread on Amrun before because I don't have it now.
- SensFan's posts like #85 are doing nothing but clarifying theory, as opposed to trying to actively scumhunt.
- Surye #96 is opportunistic. I don't like the whole idea that "I like the Vez lynch. I'm going to summarize everyone else's opinion on why Vez
is a good lynch. Furthermore, I'm going to speak properly and in sentences so it seems like I'm credible" is the entirity of his post.
- Agar's point on Medicated Lain #102 is definitely relevant. Up Med to scum again. Is he not reading? Is he reading just enough so he can throw
a vote on someone and flee?
- mozamis #103 looking useless to me.
- ToonFighter's post #106 is retarded. There is no contradiction. Lynch Vezok and the PR list is not narrowed down relative to a lynch of anyone
else. Surely someone would have thought about their post rather than realize its wrong far too late whilst haphazardly throwign a vote on DN.
- town read on Primate #108. I follow Yos2's meta line of reasoning in that anyone who shares similar suspects to me is thinking about the game from
the same perspective that I am. He called SensFan, just like I did above upon the reread. Similar to Yos's theory, scumread on McQueso for
questioning the SensFan vote. Not thinking about the game from a townie perspective. So is Zindaras #122 (and putting Llama as town? ugh).
- HezLucky #126 - given that my reads have now changed completely up to this post, my vote does not make sense. My vote would be on Llama at this
point in the game if I could re-do this post.
- Surye #136 - you're assuming the Vezok problem will still be around in several days. You don't know that. The only faction that would know that
would be scum because they've decided that they don't intend to kill him, and thus are trying to push for his early lynch. As town, you have much
much less control over who dies and thus, the townie mentality tends to be moer "I'll deal with that if we get there" rather than "We are for
sure going to have this problem later on". If this was an open game, this theory would be different, but it isn't, and so the roles are
easily unpredictable enough to cause a lot to happen between now and, say, Day 4. You're thinking like scum. Is that because you are?
- ToonFighter #145 - is he just a bad player? this logic makes no sense. only an FOS on vezok? policy lynch as an anti-town player? you don't believe
he is scum?
- I like ABR after #175/#176. Specifically, he's aggressive. He's not afraid. Scum would be afraid. He's putting his neck out on the line.
- IS #180 further gives me an ABR townread. I think town would be more likely to flipflop, as they realized "hmm... an awful lot of people have
caught onto this wagon awfully fast". IS should know that. Scumread for IS.
- disagree with Porochaz #192. I thought ABR's answer was fine. People are doing scummy things, but as scum it's highly unlikely you would want
to defend vezok vehemently on something like this if he was on your taem. Good work Porochaz, in trying to make ABR seem suspicious "by majority"
(ie. adding one more person onto the list of people to disagree with him, to make it seem like he's overwhelming anti-town). Back up to scum-side
you go.
- CPE gets huge +5 from me. I have two town-reads as of this line. Primate and ABR. He was voting for one, unvoted and voted the other.
"Thinks like Hez" theory. He does not think like Hez. Top suspect right now.
- Surye #208. Directing the cop. -_- Back to #1 again you go.
- Zindaras #212. How is ABR leading the cop? Quite the opposite, in fact.
- Agar #215 - why are people saying ABR is making a flimsy push on vezok? Hmm... I have to rethink this.
- had NO read whatsoever on vez until #216. slight town read now. his reasons for voting surye seem genuine (read: he actually added on his own
reasoning not rehashing someone elses)
- Porochaz #246. No points distributed here but Idon't think he legimitately believes vezok is scum here, but rather that he should be policy
lynched. I don't like the vez bandwagon.
- as of post #275 SensFan has been largely useless in this game. Lurking is not a scumtell, but fluff and active lurking are.
- SensFan #294. He's STILL not scumhunting. When does he plan on starting?
- ToonFighter #308. This I find suspicious. Given what he writes about mozamis, it's highly odd that he wouldn't vote him. He just listed like
four or five reasons why mozamis is scum and all mozamis gets is an FoS? mozamis also gets +1 incaes they are buddies.
- Kison #321 ... Kison is prodded to post and can only muster up an FoS? As I said, lurking is a nulltell, but lurking and then not even giving
your opinions, trying to scumhunt or even commit to a vote is a huge scumtell.
- If i didn't have an ABR townread I would think ABR was buddying Surye in #345 and slightly before. Ugh Ugh Ugh.
- I agree with SensFan #366 on Furcolow. Timing of posts has been suspicious. "I'm going to lurk then reply when my name comes up" (+1)
- I like McQueso's #373 to be aggressive on Furcolow. Definitely seems like a legitimate "let's pressure him and see what we get" kind of wagon,
which is appropriate given his contributions to the game.
- Furcolow's #396 seems legit, though. Unless he's a really good actor. Based on his previous posts, does not seem like it.
- Furc #406 - he thinks Llama is scum. Furc is not a good wagon.
- Amrun #410 - thakn you for pointing out CPE's absence. He gets a boost.
- Agree with Amrun #419 on Zindaras. The two FOS's without making reference to the current vote on Surye make it seem like he just wants to
strong-accuse as many people as possible, but a) not seem like he's wagoning and (b) keep his vote on someone who has a chance of being lynched
today. Also -1 to Amrun because I thought of that first =D
- CES #435 - you mean CES actually READS games?
- IS #436 - town read, I agree that Furc is opportunistic. So is vezo. Surye is my top suspect (still!) as of this post.
- agree with Amrun #437 again.
- MBL #449 --- WHY WIFOM? WHY? WTF IS THIS GOING TO ACCOMPLISH?
- MBL #451 --- knew of SensFan's scumminess but thakn you for pointing out Porochaz has been on both bad wagons.
- MBL #453 --- he makes an excellent point. Is it because he's scum, though?
- GummyBear #462 --- guys we didn't play with hydras back in my day and I have no idea how to read them.
- Furcolow #480 - WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?

OVERALL:
Surye - 56/100
creampuffeater - 56/100
Kison - 55/100
Zindaras - 55/100
SensFan - 54/100
Toon Fighter - 54/100
LlamaFluff - 53/100
Porochaz - 53/100
Medicated Lain - 51/100
mozamis/CES - 51/100
MBL - 51/100
Everyone else - 50/100
BrianMcQueso - 50/100
Internet Stranger - 50/100
Furcolow - 49/100
vezopiraka - 49/100
Amrun - 49/100
AlbertBRampage - 46/100
Primate - 46/100

Alright, in most games, I usually have a few people above 60 or even 70 at this point. This all looks so jumbled. Who do I vote for?
Well, I oppose the Furcolow and vezo wagons. The next highest wagon is Surye, who happens to be my #1 choice. I would like to pressure
the lurkers who are high on my list like CPE and Kison so we'll do it like this:

FOS: creampuffeater, Kison

Unvote, Vote: Surye

Die scum die.

[HezLucky]

Just curious. How do you accuse me both of being scummy for not scumhunting, and then also call me scummy for being the first person on both of the major wagons?

Those things are not mutually exclusive. Being on wagons is not scumhunting.

I didn't give you any points for that though.

[HezLucky]

Alright another wall.

We'll start from that last post of mine.

RESPONSE TO AMRUN #531: I think you misread my post. I was saying that I agree with your analysis.

Medicated Lain #532 - seriously? did you just FOS furcolow for something you "find scummy" and then vote a lurker, rather
than piping up to the mod to get him replaced? Badddddd.

ABR #535 - Original town read on ABR. Looked bad with buddying of Surye as mentioned in previous post but I let it slide.
Now he's calling vezokpiraka for his post #534, which is a completely relevant attack on Medicated Lain. CHAINSAW.
(back to scum he goes)

Kison #543 - I'm of the belief that everyone who comments on Medicated Lain #532 should be attacking him over being so
noncommittal and acting like he's scumhunting (by pointing out something scummy and only layin a weak FOS). Kison has been
terrible all game. Notice how he just hops onto a wagon without any explanation as well.

Yosarian #545 - THANK YOU! This vote for Lain is one I now support.

Furcolow #547 - Furc is a bad wagon. I already said this in my previous post. Now he's got a very legitimate vote on
MedicatedLain going. He's also suspicious of LlamaFluff which is ++town in my book.

Zindaras #550 - agree with the "Vezok turns up town" bit, but what is the fucking point of linking to all those games? Ugh.

Agar #554 - wrong. we've had two.

Amrun #557 - I don't see it.

ABR #559 - But at least Amrun had been suspicious of Zindaras before. Ugh @ ABR - youv'e basically gone from obvtown to
obvscum this post.

Zindaras #568 - this is why I didn't see the "Zindaras is useless" view. Zindaras is right. How many players in this game
have been truly useful? [Amrun goes back to a null read - I had him as town my very first post and that is biasing my
observations] [Uneasy on Zindaras' scumtargets though, besides Surye]

Agar #576 - agree here. The Zindaras wagon is baseless. (I have him at 54/100, so he could be scum yes, but how the wagon
was formed has no merit whatsoever so +scum points to anyone on it)

CPE #609 - OKAY WTF NOW HE VOTES FURCOLOW? That's it.

Unvote, Vote: creampuffeater

who has been on seemingly every
poor wagon in this game. (three votes for three obvtown people. okay I don't consider ABR obvtown now, but he was when CPE
voted for him, and when ABR started doing scummy things CPE UNVOTED the guy)

Porochaz #623 - stop with the fucking nicknames dude.

SCUMLIST:
creampuffeater - 61/100
Kison - 59/100
Surye - 56/100
Medicated Lain - 55/100
Zindaras - 54/100
SensFan - 54/100
Toon Fighter - 54/100
AlbertBRampage - 54/100
LlamaFluff - 53/100
Porochaz - 53/100
mozamis/CES - 51/100
MBL - 51/100
Everyone else - 50/100
BrianMcQueso - 50/100
Internet Stranger - 50/100
Amrun - 50/100
Agar - 49/100
vezopiraka - 49/100
Furcolow - 48/100
Yosarian2 - 48/100
Primate - 46/100



Voting CPE for being on every shit wagon this entire game. Furthermore, his last vote was tacking onto a poor wagon. This guy
needs to be lynched.

[HezLucky]

Post coming within 24 hours. Have got a plane to catch today.

[HezLucky]

Page 26 was the last wall? How unfortunate.

My vote was: creampuffeater has been on every shit wagon this game.
I want him lynched. Why does no one else have an opinion of creampuffeater?

Okay so let's start from the last post

Agar #628 - interesting theory. not sure what to think of it, though.

Surye #639 - I hope this post is a joke.

Amrun #652 - Amrun's summary of the game is completely biased. And yet this is why I feel she is town. Not trying to hide
anything, and the suspect list is solid.

Toon Fighter #653 - Wow this is really really stupid. He's basically saying "We should lynch a townie anyway for
whatever reason. Also, both players that claimed are townies. Let's lynch one of them. This will be good for the town"

If one of the players that had claimed VT was actually scum, I wouldn't be suspicious of TF. But I have a town read on both
vez and Furc, and so this post reeks of trying to sway the town to a mislynch.

SensFan #655 - still active lurking and pretending like he's scumhunting.

Medicated Lain #657 - guys ok I need a meta for this: how does Medicated Lain rate as a scumhunter?

Amrun #686 - raises a good point on Porochaz. His only votes have more or less been on those with wagons already.

Kison #690 - as of this line, I am somehwat (5th place on scumlist) suspicious of Surye, and have town reads on Vez and Furc.
Of all the wagons Kison could have joined, he chose the Surye one which isn't even leading. This post I support. He could've
gone for something much easier. (unfortunately for him he drops from 2nd only to tied for 3rd on my scumlist)

Furcolow #693 - Hey Furc, vote CPE with me. This guy is the scummiest person in teh whole game. Needs to be lynched badly.
Let's put some pressure on him. One is obviously not enough, as anything I've said on CPE has been ignored.

CPE #701 - so in other words. Your votes have been pointless. Kinda like my vote on you, in retrospect, as it seems unlikely
to lead to a lynch. HOWEVER, my votes have been good. You've basically voted for every town-looking person in the game. In
addition to that, you have been cruising by via not placing your votes in a place where they would be useful. This would be
okay, once again, if your vote was a good one. However, if we had it your way, we would've lynched nothing but town players
by now.

Medicated Lain #703 - is this post not the chainsaw defense on Surye? Attacking IS? hmm.

Amrun #711 - I looked at his alternate-from-Surye scumlist and completely agree. Except Porochaz. But Amrun is not scum.

Actually I will stpo and pickup at #725. I saw the deadline (which REALLY needs to be made more prominent -_-)

Suspect List -
creampuffeater - 61/100
Toon Fighter - 58/100
Kison - 57/100
SensFan - 57/100
Surye - 57/100
Medicated Lain - 56/100
Porochaz - 55/100
Zindaras - 54/100
AlbertBRampage - 54/100
LlamaFluff - 53/100
mozamis/CES - 51/100
MBL - 51/100
Internet Stranger - 51/100
Everyone else - 50/100
BrianMcQueso - 50/100
Agar - 49/100
vezopiraka - 49/100
Amrun - 48/100
Furcolow - 48/100
Yosarian2 - 48/100
Primate - 46/100


Guys, the Furcolow wagon is AWFUL. Vez is a crappy wagon. I am okay with the Surye lynch, but really its more of a "I'm
relatively okay with it" kinda thing aka. I would happily do it with a deadline. But I'm in no rush to lynch.


(Oh wow... just saw teh deadline. Okay.

Unvote, Vote: Surye

)

CREAMPUFFEATER IS SCUM. EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION TO THAT.

ugly deadline.

[HezLucky]

Also a shameless post to avoid prod -- will resume read soon.

Though offhand Toon Fighter's last post looks awful and SensFan looks just as bad for not calling him on it (despite being the very next post)

[HezLucky]

err I mean his #927, the vote for Kublai that came absolutely out of nowhere and amounts to a lurkerhunt.

The part I don't like is that SensFan commented on the part of his post that wasn't necessarily scummy.

[HezLucky]

Not going to bother anymore with explaining slight differences in points. It will come down to "I like this person's
reads" and "this person isn't even trying" with the +1/-1's, so only going to point out interesting things.

Nevertheless, Llama looks like he is legitimately scumhunting from post #759. He has gone from scum down to a neutral
read. His list in that post was: ML, TF, maybe Surye, BMQ and CPE. DN possibly as a policy lynch. I don't agree with
all of it but a good part of that list is legit (ML/TF/CPE until he flipped, and Surye wasn't bad then)

GummyBear #762 - seems like a faux-attack on AGar, an attempt to paint him in a bad light. I don't like the fact that
GB is a hydra account and yet still manages to OMGUS. It seems more likely that the two heads of the hydra agreed that
they would attack AGar in that post, as opposed to it being any sort of legitimate response. (yes I am aware that
they posted separately, but it doesn't mean anything to me)

I also don't like their ML town read. And in retrospect, them finding Surye innocent (and he did pop up innocent!) is
almost as if they knew his alignment beforehand.

MBL post #764 is good, as it repeats the Gummy suspicion I just mentioned above.

GummyBear #767 - now the Gummy hydra votes Furcolow? I've already stated my displeasure for this wagon multiple times.
It seems like they aren't even trying.

Toon Fighter #795 - I'm sorry but I just don't like TF's constant pushing of the Furcolow wagon.

Zindaras #799 - I dislike any suspicion of Amrun here. And not because he flipped town. Though he changes tune later
on in the same post, which does make me comfortable. (Legitimate and expected response to a reread)
At the same time, he liked CPE. Given how much I didn't like CPE (Zindaras claims to "like" CPE's arguments) and given
that CPE has flipped town, once again seems like a case of "I like CPE because I know his alignment is different to
mine". Also, the town reads at the end of the post just don't make sense. Brian, IS and CPE as town? I have no doubt
Zindaras is reading the game based on that post, but real scumhunting is another story. *back up you go*

Amrun #801 - this post is noted ONLY because Amrun is dead and has flipped town. He feels MBL is making weak, passive
attacks towards him which I can definitely see the perspective of.

McQueso #805 - I would like to see McQueso push someone's lynch hard. The identity of that person, I feel, would give
us a lot of info regarding McQueso's alignment (I'm having a tough read here)

Yos #806-808 man this guy is SO TOWN

(FYI SensFan #818 - if Surye flipped scum, this would heavily implicate you)

BrianMcQueso #832 - you obviously have not read my posts. I have been heavily opposed to the Furc wagon all of
yesterday. I am in no way "lynchable" for changing my vote to Surye. Though I'm sure upon reread you found that out,
this still merits scumpoints on your part. (at least Zindaras #842 caught onto this - case on Agar is noted!)

Kublai Khan #850 - ABR voted for Furc AND vezok? But on the other hand, he hates vezok... Good post on Kison though.

though Kison #857 is good. Ugh. He's right on the consistency point thoguh. Didn't catch that.

Llama #885 seems like townie confusion. It's so weird I had him as scum early game.

I don't understand ReaperCharlie's hammer at all. Yes, he obviously looks very bad for not having caught up. But I'm
guilty of the same thing --- in every game I'm in -_-.


---DAY TWO ---

I like the ToonFighter votes to start the day. I don't like SensFan's vote of Llama anymore, as Llama seemed pretty
good toward the end of the da,y especially seeing as I read the end of Day 1 with the knowledge of flips.

Agree with everything that has been said about the Cult Recruiter bit. Much more likely to be scum, but if Kison is
scummy (and he is) I won't hesitate to lynch him.

What does everyone think of Kison #918, as he was the one that popped up as Cult Recruiter?

Toon Fighter #927 - okay the Kublai Khan vote makes NO SENSE. And he doesn't like Llama anymore? Llama's been town
since the second half of Day 1.

As mentioned earlier, SensFan really should've voted for TF's crap #927. He didn't. I'm happy with a lynch on either
one of these two.

Like Llama #947. This is making me uncomfortable, because I am aware that Llama is very good scum.

MBL #954 is playing the "white meta knight" - basically calling out other people on not giving explanations (in this
case, IS, in later posts, he calls out a whole slew of people including myself) -- I don't like how image oriented
that is.

I'm not saying the ReaperCharlie wagon is inherently bad, as he might be scum (I don't know because he WON'T POST
ANYTHING) but the people on that wagon have no busiuenss being on that wagon. SensFan as #2 and Porochaz as #3 reek
of scum. How can you guys not have better targets at this point in the game?

DeathNote is correct in #965.

MBL #966 -- GOOD POST. WOW. (-4)
Not only listed the problem I had with Porochaz but ADDED MORE STUFF TO IT. Amazing. Oh look, he uses the word
"image-oriented". That's why it was stuck in my head.

CES #972 is bad. He has not played this way in the few other games I've been in with him. It's not that he's making
cases, but who he's making cases on. Yosarian's post was not bad but CES tries to spin it in a poor light.

Furc #978 - based on #979, I am absolutely sure you aren't scum. As a respones to your #978, "skimming" is exactly
what I said I was doing in that post, so you aren't exactly breaking new ground. (As of this line, my strongest town
read is attacking me -- great -- AND his #980 is a good list too)

Zindaras #984 point #3 is excellent. And not just because it makes me look good =D. The Surye wagon needs to be
broken into parts before doing an analysis on it as it was originally in response to another town wagon.
(hmm my read on Zindaras is flipflopping like crazy ... Is Zindaras an eloquent player in meta? I need to take this
into account if he is.)

...but then he attacks Yos and Furc in the same post. WHAT THE HELL? (back up you go)

...Also, where did GummyBear go?

MBL #1053 - What? Is a suspect list not good enough? Please. This is the "meta white knight" (I'm sure you kids have
an actual name for it -- but it makes me sick)

Suspect List -
Toon Fighter - 63/100
SensFan - 61/100
Medicated Lain - 56/100
Zindaras - 56/100
Kison - 56/100
Porochaz - 56/100
GummyBear - 54/100
AlbertBRampage - 54/100
mozamis/CES - 53/100
BrianMcQueso - 52/100
ReaperCharlie - 52/100
Internet Stranger - 51/100
Everyone else - 50/100
Agar - 50/100
MBL - 49/100
DeathNote - 49/100
LlamaFluff - 48/100
Yosarian2 - 46/100
Primate - 46/100
Furcolow - 44/100


I want to vote either Toon Fighter or SensFan. TF has promised a post, and I am going to read it before deciding which.
Do I vote for the scummy-sounding scum, or the useless noscumhunting scum?

[HezLucky]

^^^ Blatant misrepresentation of the point. You did not receive any points for the FYI. It was simply a thought that had crossed my mind.

You STILL have not done any scumhunting whatsoever. I would like to see where this contradiction of yours occurs.

[HezLucky]

Why not do it now? My main argument against you is that you post nothing but fluff, are actively lurking and seem to refuse to engage in any kind of scumhunting whatsoever, combined with your questionable votes.

The only way I could really see you "countering" my argument is by actual scumhunting, in which case I look forward to it.

[HezLucky]

Yeah, at least Toon Fighter is giving me something to go on for later analysis.

Vote: SensFan

[HezLucky]

Then what do you think is a better thing to do? (I

may

take it under consideration because i'm only on page 2 ;-; But another thing is I don't like to just start without really commenting on most that has happened)

Ignore him. A PBPA provides an idea of your suspicions, which is more than useful (for us and for you).

[HezLucky]

SensFan's case against HezLucky (post #1087) is an interesting one, and fairly convincing. I'd very much like a response from Hez.

It is!? I thought it was complete garbage. Alright, response to come very soon (likely after game 1 of NBA Finals)

[HezLucky]

(I don't want a to-do list so I'm just doing this now)

Post 85. Yes, clearly it is OH SO SCUMMY to, when someone misunderstands my reasons for voting someone, stop scumhunting for a whole post while I clarify myself.

Strawman. If you had been scumhunting at all over the course of the entire game, then your post 85 would be fine. But you haven't. At all.

BZZT. "X is Town because he agrees with my reads; Y and Z are Scum because they disagree with me" is so wrong I'm probably wasting my time by bothering to include it here.

Yessir. Welcome to one of my very top scumtells. Yosarian2 uses something similar, and he happens to be in this game. Basically, if your scumreads make no sense to me, then you are not viewing teh game from teh same perspective that I am, and therefore have an extremely high probability of being scum. "Thinks ilke Hez" theory. It works too. I caught me some scum in you.

You can feel free to meta that one. I find it to be highly effective and it's ingrained in my personal playstyle, so good luck with that.

Post 294. This is the second time in the same post where you've taken a post of mine building on/clarifying my previous stance(s) (stances you've ignored completely in your IIoA PBPA) and then called me scummy for only clarifying things and not doing anything else.

No. You're wrong. This is not scumhunting. Post 85 was not scumhunting. NONE of your posts were scumhunting, at all. Period. I don't see how you can possibly even pretend to have an argument against this. You have not been scumhunting. At all. This entire game. And several of your posts are basically just fluff aka. "active lurking", which is far worse than actual lurking.

something about disagreeing with Hez's statement "Being on wagons is not scumhunting"

Being on wagons is NOT SCUMHUNTING. To be scumhunting, you need to have reasons for why you find someone scummy, as opposed to just hopping onto whatever looks like an easy lynch, which is what you have been doing. You've been on several BAD wagons this game, and at best, if we are lucky, you give a half-assed explanation for them. You are just looking for an easy lynch. That's not scumhunting. I'm looking to find scum. Are you? No. You're looking to lynch people.

Post 655. 21 posts of mine in between this one and the last one you selectively chose to call me an active lurker for. Don't worry, you didn't miss much in that span. Oh, except for the part where Poro and I both simultaneously completely create the case on Furc and start the wagon on him.

My stance on the Furc bandwagon is that it has been INCREDIBLY awful and riddled with OPPORTUNISM. Opportunism is NOT SCUMHUNTING. It is looking for a lynch so that it's not your ass that hangs. The case on Furcolow was not scumhunting, at all. It was absolutely awful opportunism. If you're trying to convince me your town, this is definitely not a post you should be focusing on.

Is this the part where I say you've done nothing all game but active lurk, based on this post alone? Or do I need to also only quote this post of yours and make it look like it's representative of all of your posts?

Nothing you have said here precludes me from being scum (though my flaky activity lately is consistent with other games, in case you'd like to meta). However, I am making the argument that YOU are scum. That's what you need to respond to. What post is it that you responded to? my "shameless pots to avoid prod"? That doesn't make someone scum. Sorry.

Personally, I think it would be absolutely pointless if I went post by post on your ISO and explained how you have not done a damn thing to help the town all game. But it's exactly that, pointless, and others can look at that for themselves and make a decision.

The response to the #818? It's something I had noted as I was reading the game. Once again, you are strawmanning here. Trying to pick apart what you perceive is a part of my argument that has nothing to do with why I think you are scum.

It's also why it was in brackets. Durr.

Part A) If you bothered to read any of my posts, you'd see the scumhunting for yourself. Part B) As earlier, you called me Scum earlier for both active lurking and being the leading vote on both of the major wagons of the time. That literally does not compute.

No sir. I still do not see any scumhunting whatsoever. STILL. After all my post suspecting you. You have done NOTHING. As for B) THESE ARE NOT THE SAME THINGS. Placing a vote is not scumhunting. Placing a vote is not being active. Placing a vote is just placing a vote. This is not an argument at all.

I did not catch the computer thing, but my statement applies to you over the course of this entire game. You have not been scumhunting AT ALL. My case has not been swayed.

A lot of what you have said is either an attempt to paint me in a bad picture, or a misinterpretation on your part. Frankly, despite thinking that you are scum, I actually think it's the second. Things like the brackets, the "avoiding a prod" post, etc. could be scum stretching an argument, or could be an honest misinterpretation. I won't hold that against you. Not that I need to, as I have more than enough.

Ultimately, your case is quite ridiculous. I am retroactively giving McQueso +5 for being "swayed" by something so BAD. I remember playing with him FIVE YEARS AGO and so know that BrianMcQueso is an experienced player, and so I can't possibly see him finding your argument being anything that isn't even remotely crap.
(unless he's jealous of Tri-Cities Mafia, which I doubt)

Posting for my future reference:

Toon Fighter - 63/100
SensFan - 61/100
BrianMcQueso - 57/100
Medicated Lain - 56/100
Zindaras - 56/100
Kison - 56/100
Porochaz - 56/100
GummyBear - 54/100
AlbertBRampage - 54/100
mozamis/CES - 53/100
ReaperCharlie - 52/100
Internet Stranger - 51/100
Everyone else - 50/100
Agar - 50/100
MBL - 49/100
DeathNote - 49/100
LlamaFluff - 48/100
Yosarian2 - 46/100
Primate - 46/100
Furcolow - 44/100

[HezLucky]

hey IS - In response to your #1145, why ABR, specifically? What's special about him, here?

Ranmaru - I would _happily_ switch to Toon Fighter. See my points list. Not RC though. As we approach closer to the deadline, I'm happy to switch to TF. Happy with my vote on SensFan, though. (I don't care which one right now they are close to equal)

Really like MBL #1154 point on Porochaz. Have updated my scumpoints (-1 and +1 respectively) but not to clog up the thread I won't post the update here (will do so when have more to post)

[HezLucky]

bam. i'm here. sick at the moment, but will make a catchup post immediately.

since we have a deadline.

unvote, vote: toon fighter

incase I do not get better by then

[HezLucky]

BrianMcQueso may be too. You heard it here first, folks.

Good post. (Though technically he was 3rd on my scumlist a few days ago.)

[HezLucky]

Starting from #1182, my last post

(this is updated with the below btw)
Toon Fighter - 64/100
SensFan - 61/100
BrianMcQueso - 57/100
Porochaz - 57/100
Medicated Lain - 56/100
Zindaras - 56/100
Kison - 56/100
GummyBear - 54/100
AlbertBRampage - 54/100
mozamis/CES - 53/100
ReaperCharlie/Battousai - 53/100
Internet Stranger - 51/100
Everyone else - 50/100
Nobody Special/Agar - 50/100
DeathNote - 49/100
MBL - 48/100
LlamaFluff - 48/100
Yosarian2 - 46/100
Primate - 46/100
Furcolow - 44/100


Lain #1185 - I disagree. I do have a case on Sens. A very good one at that. I don't see why people can't see this.

IS/ABR arguments - If X flips scum, Y is next arguments are dumb. It's one thing if you think the town will get information from X's
lynch, but you have to convince everyone else of this as well.

Battousai(RC hydra) #1220 is good. At deadline, I will be lynching TF over this slot today for sure.

IS #1238 may be onto something, however, with point #7. I'm not sure how to deal with a hydra, so I will revisit this later. Ne'ertheless
there is certainly a disparity between my read on Battousai and my read on RC. It's not enough to place a vote on RC, but it's noted.

Also, just struck my mind. But I have a scumread on SensFan, and people are attacking RC, the only other person with a scumread on
SensFan. Surely, someone is CHAINSAWING on purpose.

Toon Fighter #1316 - TF's votes in general this game have been highly suspicious. With the exception of ABR, he seems to be targetting
people he feels are "lynchable", either because their playstyle is destructive (ie. ABR) or because they have a current wagon on
them (in the case of RC). Also, I dislike TF's distancing with SensFan here in #1316. I'm happy with my vote and think SensFan needs
to go (but not before TF).

ReaperCharlie #1327 - this post can't possibly be serious.

Going to stop at #1327. I think it's a better use of my time to summarize the case on TF, because I haven't seen a good one yet and
it may help the town in doing so.

[HezLucky]

(My) Case on ToonFighter -

First, let me point to some other people in this game that can explain the early problems:

This post really feels like Toon Fighter is trying to have it both ways about the death note case, trying to attack Death Note and "sound reasonable" at the same time, and I dislike it.

Here is Toon Fighter's #106

He said we should lynch vez to narrow down the PR list. Well, that IS scummy. But, if we lynched someone OTHER than Vez, we would narrow down the PR list even more than with lynching Vez (assuming he is telling the truth). Therefore, something is wrong with his argument, and it contradicts itself. What he may have meant is to lynch vezok narrow down the scum list or something, but the way it is phrased, it looks scummy to me. I just didn't vote immediately because the game was just starting, but now I am more confident in my opinion of DN. VOTE: DeathNote

My problem with this post is that, at the time (and I still believe this), it seemed like ToonFighter wasn't really reading the game in any way and was just looking for a wagon to hop on. In fact, Toon Fighter has done this pretty much all game -- largely sticking to wagons that he feels will result in lynches.

The post above itself is silly. There is no contradiction anywhere. While analyzing it earlier, I wrote:
"Lynch Vezok and the PR list is not narrowed down relative to a lynch of anyone
else. Surely someone would have thought about their post rather than realize its wrong far too late whilst haphazardly throwign a vote on DN."
which summarizes my position on it quite well.

@mozamis: I just ISO'd you and didn't like what I saw. You still maintain a very early vote with nearly no reasoning, you don't have any suspects, you just say you are against a vez lynch and say AGar looks town. You have nearly ZERO content on your posts. FoS: mozamis

This post (and yes, this is the entirity of the post) is also very strange --> He just listed many many reasons why he is suspicious of mozamis, yet it is still not enough for TF to vote mozamis? Given how opportunistic and weak some of TF's earlier votes have been, and the fact that mozamis wasn't under any pressure at this point in the game, it seemes like TF really didn't want to start anything on that end.

We now have 2 D1 vanilla claims. We should lynch one of them, otherwise we risk outing a power role. Furc has been acting scummier than Vez the entire game. His pseudo vote on himself is garbage, he didn't even unvote, and our mod is very strict about it. I say we go forward with Furc lynch.

I did not like this post for two reasons. #1 was my strong townread on both Vez and Furc, when there was a better Surye wagon around. He is basically saying "We should lynch a townie" and trying to justify the lynch so that he doesn't have to face the music later on if/when they flip town. Somehow he is trying to justify that lynching a vanilla townie is a pro-town move. He "doesn't want to hit power roles", sure, but both these lynch choices, in my eyes, were awful.

vote: Kublai Khan

He opportunistically jumped Surye's wagon yesterday and rode it till the end, contributing little on the way. He has 7 posts, only one of which has some content. In that post, he jumps Surye's wagon and attacks half of the living players. He hasn't done much scumhunting D1 (I know he was only in for a couple of days, but his posts barely have anything). Also, his replacee, bamboom, has only 2 posts, one in RVS and one commenting vez's situation. I can't see much more, for he was a lurker, but I hope KK comes out soon to join the discussion.

Also, I'm not liking Llamafluff's play. He is almost sure he was lied to, but still wants a possible cop to come out. I don't really see scum pulling a move like that [Llamma's] but I want to see where he is heading

This vote is poor and just doesn't make any sense. TF has mixed poor votes that don't make sense with poor votes on players that are unlikely to be scum with poor votes for the sake of voting bandwagon leaders.

As a personal reason, his scumdar is not at all in line with mine. That's a personal scumtell, and I believe it was at this point that he became my #1.

The combination of SensFan's interaction with Toon Fighter here (I thought it was ridiculous that SensFan would not call out Toon Fighter for such a ridiculous post -- he actually did, but not for the part of the post that
was ridiculous) and ToonFighter's distancing of SensFan in post #1316 (below) leads me to believe a possible connection between the two.

I am looking at the case on RC again, and, despite being led by SensFan, whom I still don't like much, I don't like that he keeps lurking and just trying to slide by after he was caught doing it. Plus, his vote on IS is just terribad. vote: RC

@ LF: I am a pro-town program, I am not a miller

Oh look. Distancing from SensFan. Oh look, Toon Fighter is voting for the current lynch leader which is something he has largely done all day (when he's not busy plopping his vote onto someone useless).

Oh look, he's claiming "pro-town program". Trapped in a corner, much?

(I'm already voting Toon Fighter, or this is where I would stick the vote on him)

[HezLucky]

®_©'s catch-up is boring and uninsightful.

obviously we disagree. please continue the catchup. (i like the colours XD)

[HezLucky]

Like, seriously. Ignore CES and continue to show your work. If he doesn't want to read that's up to him.

[HezLucky]

Read rule 5 of the rules. Lynch at deadline requires half the number of players (with a tie going to whoever reached that number first)

[HezLucky]

err rule 6.

and its half the number that would usually be required

[HezLucky]

Are we seriously doing a Senswagon? If support is mustered up I am IN.

[HezLucky]

Llama needs to full-on claim right now then. None of this "oh but I forgot to mention this part of my role" incase he's wrong. He came out with it.

...while we're at it, so does DeathNote

Unvote, Vote: DeathNote

[HezLucky]

*sigh*

My preferred lynch is Toon Fighter.

Unvote, Vote: Toon Fighter

[HezLucky]

I'm amazed that DeathNinja/Reaper is willing to do this given the deadline in two days and his by-far number one position in voting.

I'm quite unsure of his alignment which is why I prefer Toon Fighter today. Is Toon Fighter not scummy or something?

[HezLucky]

BMQ you know that I'm probably giving you points (once I get around to it) for your terrible terrible list because it's clearly made up, right?

[HezLucky]

SensFan is scum but you get bonus points for showing that McQueso is his buddy.

[HezLucky]

I don't think I am, no.

(I haven't done the points yet, but while I agree with some of his reads that are super awesome I also disagree sometimes strongly with some of them.)

However, I do encourage him to elaborate on the better ones =D

[HezLucky]

Also, MBL's last post is making me drool over a Toon Fighter lynch.

PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDECIDED SHOULD READ MBL #1657.

[HezLucky]

ReaperCharlie/DeathNinja has not only been far more useful today in the past 48 hours than Toon Fighter has been and will be for the rest of the game, but he is legitimately scumhunting (aka. his reads make sense aka. I agree with some of them and the ones I don't agree with he is able to justify)

Toon Fighter has been (to use someone else's term) "skating" by, making poor decisions for who to push

and furthermore, there are people on the COUNTER-TOONFIGHTER wagon (aka. ReaperCharlie/DeathNinja) who are doing perhaps the scummiest play in the book -- saying "I'm going to ignore everything that goes on today because I refuse to change my vote" ... I'm looking at you SensFan and BrianMcQueso

If ReaperCharlie/DeathNinja turns up town, BrianMcQueso needs to be lynched. (If we don't do Toon Fighter first) --> While it would be a pipedream to see a Toon Fighter/SensFan/BrianMcQueso scumgroup (BMQ has defended or buddied both of them in some form -- including wagon analysis ie. dismissing any cases that suggest the counterwagon is not good), the fact that BrianMcQueso has links to both of them means he may be buddying 1 town with one hand and defending his scumbuddy with the other. His lynch will tell us a lot of information.

As for now, it seems clear that no-one outside of ReaperCharlie/DeathNinja and Toon Fighter is going to be lynched today. Anyone not on one of those wagons needs to move their vote, or face the collective wrath of the town tomorrow for fence-sitting.

[HezLucky]

The Matrix scumteam looks a touch underpowered in a game with so many nightkills, but I'm interested in hearing more about why the scumteams are balanced.

This.

I thought between the two of us we played a good game and yet we had no chance whatsoever of winning.