Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[DeathNote]

/confirm and... lame.......

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Holy crap.

/confirm.

I'll claim already. Guess what?

Miller?

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Well, way to narrow it down for scum there. Good job.

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Agree with lynching Vezok for effectively narrowing down the PR list.

Disagree with doing it quickly. There is no benefit beside seeing who jumps on the wagon.

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You misinterpreted my post Agar. Vez has narrowed down the PR list and is who I want to lynch. Of course, someone else could become more scummy and change my opinion which is the reasoning for not wanting a quicklynch as suggested earlier. Quick days help scum, not town.

Now to the post I quoted: You agree with a lynch on me because I claimed VT, but you think we should take our time for it. I find this pretty scummy. You want to lynch me for no reason at all, but in order to appear pro-town you say you don't agree with a quicklynch. Please tell how can you get reasons for votes on me if you are only lynching me because I claimed VT?

I agree with a lynch on you because you are a safe lynch and never is wanting to take your time scummy. You should explain yourself better there.

So for the moment, you are the best lynch as we know for sure you are either villager or scum and we wont risk lynching someone of more value.

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So what is "scummier" because this all seems more or less arbitrary to me now. You already called him scum for claiming VT *sigh* and say its because it makes it obvious he is not a PR, but running someone else up does the exact same thing correct?

You are hurting my head. I can not keep up with your thought process so I am going to ignore it and spell it out elementary style for you.

Vez claimed VT.
Vez is not a town PR.
Scum now know not to kill Vez.
Vez can be scum.
Everyone else can be a PR.
Vez is safest lynch.

Vote: Vez

BTW- i want it drawn out so I can see reactions to lynching Vez. *Cough* Llama *Cough*

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@Llama- Both. I am for lynching Vez now but could easily be swayed into lynching you based on your reaction of a scum Vez.

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@Llama- Both. I am for lynching Vez now but could easily be swayed into lynching you based on your reaction of a scum Vez.

Which could not possibly happen until tomorrow.

Correct

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He said we should lynch vez to narrow down the PR list. Well, that IS scummy. But, if we lynched someone OTHER than Vez, we would narrow down the PR list even more than with lynching Vez (assuming he is telling the truth). Therefore, something is wrong with his argument, and it contradicts itself. What he may have meant is to lynch vezok narrow down the scum list or something, but the way it is phrased, it looks scummy to me. I just didn't vote immediately because the game was just starting, but now I am more confident in my opinion of DN. VOTE: DeathNote

You serious bud? I swear... some people just dont read so here is my simple version again.

Vez claimed VT.
Vez is not a town PR.
Scum now know not to kill Vez.
Vez can be scum.
Everyone else can be a PR.
Vez is safest lynch.

No contradiction whatsoever.

[DeathNote]

@Deathnote:

He is right that there's a bit of a contradiction but it's a silly one. You are voting Vezok for narrowing down PR possibilities. If you even consider anyone else for a lynch then you are encouraging them to claim and therefore you are also guilty of narrowing PR possibilities.

So if you support any wagon other than the Vezok one you are being internally inconsistent. That's the argument he's making. You said earlier that you are open to lynching someone else, so there's the inconsistency.

I think it's a silly argument because narrowing PR possibilities is a minor point of pursuing people.

Yes my vote was placed because he claimed VT but that does not mean that Vez can not be scum or some sort of Anti-Town. Beside, there is a difference in lynching someone for being stupid and lynching someone for being scummy and you get bonus points for doing it to the same person.

@Zindaras: I am a survivalist. I'm more satisfied if I lived till the end then if I won.
If everyone knows I am town when claiming VT they won't lynch so I can get to endgame. If I claim VT as scum day 1 like this they won't believe me anymore and I won't have the same chances of winning.

GAH!!!! This is anti-town and should not be happening.

DN wants to drag the day. What good can it come for dragging the day? Nobody will come with other reasons, townies will get bored and stuff like that.

Also everyone knows that short days favor scum and not town. If he comes here and says let's make a loooooonnnngg day people will think that is the town mentality and won't try to lynch him.

Get my point?

What? Who told you short days are scummy? Longer days means more information which means better town day. Its like you have purposively said something is scummy just because I am agreeing with it.

No, DeathNote specifically said "Lynching Vezok narrows down the PR list." This admits that he feels Vezok to be town and likely a VT - ergo, he believes the claim.

Is that what you are thinking I said? Let me clear it up for you then, Vez is more likely scum then town to me hence my vote.

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Yeah it is an incomplete post but to clarify more, Vez was the one who effectively narrowed down the PR list and because of that, I agreed with lynching him.

BTW-

KILL VEZ WITH FIRE FOR CLAIMING A VICTORY CONDITION THAT IS NOT TOWN!!!!!!!!!!

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Dislike Bamboo's fence sitting.

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Me too.

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@Llama- at what point would you be willing to lynch Vez then? You can't allow someone to get to lylo just because they claimed VT right off. That would make an easy game for scum.

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Isn't town always given one policy lynch? I know that is terrible reasoning for lynching vez and dont use this against me cause it is not my reasoning, but if you are having trouble agreeign wtih the lynch then give this a shot.

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Vezo isnt going to make it to the end game anyways, so why worry about him so much? Its easy to see that Vezo is just a catalyst for the scum to latch on to so that they have an excuse to post anything.

That is not what Llama thinks.

@Llama- at what point would you be willing to lynch Vez then? You can't allow someone to get to lylo just because they claimed VT right off. That would make an easy game for scum.

Sure I can let them get to endgame if I get more of a vez-town read. Not only that but will if my read sticks around.

[DeathNote]

Here. Two finals today and a final Monday. Will get some thoughts in over the weekend just dont expect much from me right now.

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I would love to see something from Bamboo. I know he is not eligible for a prod yet but I still am looking forward to his next post.

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Unvote

Finals are over monday.

Dislike Furc wagon but also dislike Furc so torn on if he is a good lynch. I unvoted Vez because there is a lot of action going on right now and I need to check up on everyone to make sure that I am still wanting a vez lynch.

[DeathNote]

And thus the end of my last final. Its summer time kiddos!

Do not like. Auto bandwaggoning is bad

Do not like Furc's auto-vote. If he is town, the vote is anti-town. If he is scum, he is trying to end the day ASAP. Do not like either way. Want explanation.

Want elaboration on the scum behind the Furc wagon that ABR said were there.

@Yos: I wanted to get more out of Furc to decide between scummy or absent, and the vote was the way to do it

That's all for now. When I see more, I post more

Why does every post from ToonFighter seem desperate to feel town? I get this constant vibe as if TF is scum trying to fake scum hunt and demand answers but not really care.

Bamboo needs to be replaced.

I disliked his posting and now he has disappeared. I can no longer get a read on him and thus

REPLACE HIM!!!!

[DeathNote]

Ok about caught up again and I am still adamant about killing off Vez but would really prefer it to be a vig kill of some sort.

ToonFighter's posting is dreadful and needs to die. Is he usually such a bad poster? I think he spends too much time trying to defend himself instead of actually scumhunting.

Bamboo was awkward and I wanted more from him but he will probably be replaced soon. I already asked for a replacement, I dont know if we are going to get it.

[DeathNote]

I can not grasp the Medicated Lain wagon or the case against him. It is tough to get into this conversation now as well so I might keep lurking for a bit. I am still reading however, so I do have opinions.

[DeathNote]

So express them.

I should clarify. I have opinions but they are unrelated to ML or anyone arguing with him.

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Why the hell was I prodded when Bamboo hasn't posted for 14 freaking days! Where is his replacement?!?!?!?

Vote: Vez

I was stupid for ever taking my vote off him.

Fuc dying tonight would be much appreciated but who knows what the odds of that happening.

I'm caught up now, and I have a much higher percentage of being a town-aligned-PR than Vezokpiraka's 0%.

I am a vanilla townie, like Vezokpiraka has claimed

Furc, why'd you hint at possibly having a power role when you started getting in trouble?

I must not be seeing what you are seeing.

It is difficult to find scum when the same people post over and over. I know that I have kinda lurked for the past few days but it started because I have a difficult time wrapping my head around what the active people are talking about. I dont see the Surye case but the people who find him scummy, I think are town. So... I suppose I approve of his lynch. After Vez of course.

[DeathNote]

Whatever. My post quality hasn't changed, just my quantity.

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judging a case by the players on it rather than the case itself.

Thats wrong?


Can we stop bickering about my play style and actually lynch scum. Do either of you honestly think the other is scum or are you just pissed off that neither of you see eye to eye?

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Prozac, take a good read of all of Amrun's posts, and tell me what you think. She looks pretty town to me, all in all, even though I disagree with the whole "porochez is pushing easy wagons" argument. I'm not really clear about why you're voting for her.

Amrun always looks town. Read carefully.

It's true.

Why is no one phased by alberts crap vote. I understand some people play bad and stay bad like Cogito with his unreadable one liners, but does that mean we should just ignore it?

[DeathNote]

Unvote

I appear to have been left behind with the lynch vez thing....

Vote: Surye

One more VT up up and away!

[DeathNote]

Vote: Toonfighter

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You are my biggest scum read.

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I like bryans analysis which just makes me believe that nothing this "cop" says should be taken at face value. I am just going to continue assuming Llama is town and being messed with as i can not imagine him lying this early on with something that puts his life in jeopardy.

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Can we concentrate here? RC lack of posting does not mean scum, it just means that he is not contributing to the game and should replace out.

TF is where your votes should be.

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I like Zindaras' point about the Furcow wagon. Why did the people who voted vote for one player over the other? I feel like it was to ensure they look less scummy. Furc was on the chopping block for bad play/claiming/poor posts/ect but Surye was actually being lynched with cases on him. I feel a mafia player would hop on the wagon that is more likely to make them look good rather then policy lynching.

Let's assume for a moment here that Surye's wagon is scum-led and that all the people hopping on at the last moment were townies. Then, by reasoning, Furcolow's wagon must be scum-led as well. After all, these last six townies could have either voted Furcolow or Surye, both legit wagons. The people who tilted the scales are in this case not the early voters, but the late voters. Actually, that's not completely right either. All the people on the Surye-wagon helped tilt the scales together.

Sure, wagons are more likely to be successful when scum gives it their blessing, especially on day one, but town can always push through if they need to. Hence the significant percentage of scum lynches on Day 1.

I don't think that what you are arguing serves us any purpose. Yos was stating his reasoning for looking for scum on the Surye wagon but you are not really disagreeing with him, just stating what town should do which is often not what happens.

unvote

Kison is the supposed Cult then. What to do what to do....


@Buddy- Amrun defended me as town

[DeathNote]

Game is lacking

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I don't feel as if mafia would lower their suspicion of me from 3rd last to last considering my voting them
HezzLucky is probably town after all, even if I was originally wary of him due to the way he is calculating the game.

In terms of RC and TF, I will have to say I would rather lynch RC. He is very good at playing scum, and horrible at town. I am town this game, so I want to lynch him, because he will either trick us which results in my losing, or suck which results in my losing

vote: RC

Stupid vote.

Vote: ReaperCharlie

Since there are no other leads today and I dont think ToonFighter is scum (at the moment), lets get rid of the distraction. Its quite possible that this is a ploy for scum to hide behind.

Stupid vote.

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Sorry my client will be taking no more questions at this time. I just could not help but state how useless those votes were.

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ABR, I was objecting to the "follow my lead, bitches" attitude. Just because you're a claimed vig doesn't mean you're omnipotent. And I'm not faulting you for putting a bullet in vezok, I would've done the same. But given your aggressive play, I'm trying to deter you from becoming a trigger-happy vig that shoots anyone who disagrees with him and hurts the town rather than helping it.

It's more like "I am town and now you have to scumhunt instead of coasting with a vote on a confirmed town player."

But they are being lazy and policy lynching RC as far as I can tell.

Nothing this late is really policy. I find the lynch does have reasons but i feel the reasons are more because the player is poor town, not scum. Toonfighter is where the votes should be.

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In no way was I condoning his lynch. I am stating that his lynch is not really on policy. They lynch him for being a crappy town player which is not what town should do.

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Ranmaru, you are all over my dick right now. If you want to vote me, then vote me. Otherwise, dont expect me to answer any of your questions.

[DeathNote]

Answer my question then...

Deathnote, why aren't you

voting

doing anything AT ALL?

Cause i dont know what to do

[DeathNote]

Llama's logic is fail. Lynching town is never a better option. You should go for scum every day, not lynch someone cause they are bad town and just maybe scum.

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He claimed this late because he knows it is the easiest way to get me lynched, he could care less if I am scum or not at this point. Llama in most of my games, does not like me to make it very far.

[DeathNote]

His first vote in this game was on me.

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He claimed this late because he knows it is the easiest way to get me lynched, he could care less if I am scum or not at this point. Llama in most of my games, does not like me to make it very far.

Told you

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Vote: TF

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Wow so now there are two DNs?

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So desperate to stay alive

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No. You can not quote either real or fabricated Mod supplied info. So his message does not hold any greater value just because he was modkilled. I can't believe that we have lost a town based off that and I am sure scum is laughing their ass off having gotten him killed. Kison is not a legit lynch either, at least not for Llama's mysterious message.

We should jump back to a toonfighter lynch.

Vote: Toonfighter

[DeathNote]

Not fabricated by Llama, fabricated by some mafia member. Messenger maybe?

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Read? Uhh... Town.

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Was town a bad choice? Ok... scum.

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Oh... ok, that makes more sense to me.

I have said town because he has played too open to be scum. More then likely, scum wouldn't contest everything everyone says and make enemies. Town play is to be active and ask questions which is why town makes more enemies then scum.

This read, though, might be completely wrong because I haven't really followed through on my facts. I just stating this from memory.

[DeathNote]

31, 32- against Amrun

39 through like 47 is mostly about fur

He starts on me about 53

Afterwards him and amrun start on it again.

His only odd post that I can see is 80 to 81 in which he votes stranger and then unvotes. His vote made sense although I would have gone with an FoS instead. I just don't get why he just immediately drops it, IS must have convinced him otherwise.

84 starts on RC

The rest is a mixture of me and RC with occasional shouts at different players.

My point in all this is that he has played very strongly against certain players and tend to try really hard to piss people off I just don't find that scummy.

His last vote is weird.

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I dont know why I did that... I never read ISO........

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Because his attitude towards me has been pretty solid for most of the game. He disliked my posts, thought they were getting worse, and figured me lurking scum. At least, that is how I summarized it. However, now he doesn't understand the votes on me and votes a person who is on my wagon. Just kinda weird.

[DeathNote]

Keymaker is a good program in the movie.

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Panzer night 1

And... it looks like I didn't use it night 2.

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I dont buy that you win with anyone. Are you saying you can't lose?

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Mmk... I get that. Sucks having a third party when there are still scum to be lynched. You have been very unhelpful this game Khan.

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How? How could you be a night kill target? Do scum know who is passing messages?

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Dont want to vote KK because I feel like this game is not in favor for town. If what KK is saying is true, however unlikely, then I would prefer to risk it in hopes of getting him on our side. I realize this puts me in prime lynching position should KK get lynched and flip mafia but I can't support his lynch.

[DeathNote]

....

What?

[DeathNote]

But... why would survivor pick anti-town over town? The point is that he can pick between factions.

[DeathNote]

But... scum wasting a kill on survivor would not be best play. Mafia would prefer to keep survivor alive to help them or to waste a lynch with the town. I am not saying that it is in the best interest of the town to keep a third party alive, but when we might be outnumber already, we have to hope for lynching an actual mafia member and that the survivor will side with town.

[DeathNote]

I disagree. We have a vig alive plus two competing factions. One can not claim without risk of losing and the survivor would be a wasted kill with a vig breathing down their neck. The survivor is in a good position so long as town doesn't give up on scum hunting and just lynch the easiest target.

[DeathNote]

But... Mafia would lose if they killed survivor... Mafia risks the chance of losing by outing themselves so that survivor can join with them. Whatever, I am not lynching the third party member over scum.

[DeathNote]

but his win condition isn't set for him to win with mafia. He wants to just stay alive.

[DeathNote]

I dont think town can win anymore.

Vote: Kublai Khan

[DeathNote]

Vanilla.

How have we not lost? And I still disagree with having lynched KK yesterday. :/

[DeathNote]

Sorry... I would post more but I just dont see town winning. I think this is a scum vs scum game right now.

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Lol cause thats motivation

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Tots VT

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Vote: Porochaz

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I dont get it... how is this game not over?

[DeathNote]

I am here. Not hammering yet.

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You can kill me all I want but there is no way in hell you can honestly think I am partners with Zindaras. If I was, the game would be over. That means that if there are two scum, they are of opposing factions and I find it really odd that the scum team is 3:2:1. That must mean that I might be the last town left...

[DeathNote]

Generally... mafia wins when they equal or exceed the number of town. two mafia vs two town.... that would mean good game.

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No... it doesn't make sense.

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Why would he claim scum in a lylo situation? Fool? I just dont get it.

[DeathNote]

Assuming 3 scum left, game is over for town and I can't win.

Assuming 2 scum left:
*Me plus Albert means best lynch is Zindaris and town wins if he shoots correct.
*Me plus Kison means best bet is Zindaris or no lynch assuming Zindaris is telling the trust about vengeful kill. He kills Albert and town wins but only if it works that way. Otherwise, we can no lynch and hope for cross kill again in which Albert would still survive.
*Me plus Zindaris isn't possible as he claimed scum.

Looks like my best option is to lynch Zindaris or to no lynch and seeing as I dont trust Albert...

Vote: No Lynch

This really will only work if Zindaris kills Albert with both his night kill and vengekill but again... if he is telling the truth and I am the last towie... what difference does it make.

[DeathNote]

I wonder.... Maybe Albert is the Architect? Perhaps he is a type of mafia/sk. Aligned with the Matrix mafia but can not win with them? At this point, Kison as the other matrix Architect doesn't make since cause it would be a 2v1v1 or a 2v2. He could have easily gone for a Albert or me lynch but instead chose to pick his scum partner. That is why I dont believe Kison to be scum.

Kison, if you are town... then a no lynch is your only option. Albert really wants Zindaris dead and the odds of him being last scum are not very good, but lets suppose Zind is final mafia. Then lynching him today makes no difference then lynching him tomorrow. I suggest we wait and hope that Zind holds true to killing Albert.

[DeathNote]

This is not a time for gambitting.

Its the perfect time. I know the odds of me winning are slim to none. I simply have to hope for the best and my best option is kison being town.

[DeathNote]

Tell me Albert... who will you kill tonight should we nl? The claimed scum? Or me for not lynching him sooner?

[DeathNote]

Yeah that tells me nothing... thanks.

[DeathNote]

Albert... what is your full claim.

[DeathNote]

Albert... what is your full claim.

I suggest you stop being so arrogant cause we are never going to get anywhere if you dont convince me to vote with you.

[DeathNote]

Please note that the day will be a no lynch at deadline.

[DeathNote]

Explain that better please cause that just sounds like it will be a no lynch.

[DeathNote]

Then there is always the issue of confirmed mafia trying to help town win... I dont see how this benefits you Zindaris and it kinda frustrates me.

[DeathNote]

DeathNote is not town.

Yeah cause you have been so right about who is town all game.

[DeathNote]

Vote: No Lynch

Just in case kison or albert change their mind before deadline... otherwise... Good Game.

[DeathNote]

Ok i wont be a jerk and delay the game any longer.

Vote: Zindaris

I will not be very happy if Albert wins this.

[DeathNote]

snap...

Unvote

Vote: Zindaris

[DeathNote]

yeah I dont understand why Kison wouldn't follow through with that. He was determined not to take a golden opportunity.

Sigh...

I reallllly didn't want an SK albert to win

[DeathNote]

Well... looks like I messed up my SK read... Even if we did lynch zindaris and you targeted Kison, we still would have lost. He had a night protection. It looks like Town really was screwed in that lylo position.