Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Amrun]

/confirm

[Amrun]

We're not lynching vezok just for this. Let's move on.

Yosarian, explain your "lynch all VTs" policy and how it would be pro-toiwn in this context.

[Amrun]

My point is that a speedlynch on vezok is going to give uss ZERO information for going into day 2. It literally wastes an entire day.

[Amrun]

VOTE: ToonFighter

His attack on DN came off as really scummy to me, like he'd hop on a wagon but if no one agreed with him he'd left room to back out.

[Amrun]

Vezok's VT claim was dumb, but I believe it and am unwilling to vote for him today. If he's fooled me, gj for him.

[Amrun]

I also dislike the DN wagon. My top suspect is pushing him and I've mislynched DN before. It's not as high a dislike as my dislike for the vezok wagon, though.

[Amrun]

My win condition says I win if all the threats to the town are dead.

That's not what mine says.

Vote: Vezok

Wait, how did I miss that post of vezok's?

lolllllllllllllll.

VOTE: vezok

How quickly I eat my words. Lynch vezok gogogo.

[Amrun]

It wasn't that he paraphrased the win condition. It was that he went out of the way to tell us the win condition and then said it wrong that looked bad to me.

[Amrun]

I just re-read vezok in ISO.

The win condition "slip" isn't strong enough to erase my otherwise town-read of him, and as llamafluff points out, he got other VT details right.

VOTE: Toon Fighter

[Amrun]

Just realized that was unnecessary since I never unvoted TF in the first place. >.>

[Amrun]

I'm honestly kind of tired of the theory discussion. I agree with the round of prods. Want more content rather than theory. Differing theories are null tells and a waste of time.

[Amrun]

Porochaz: Restate the question, please.

[Amrun]

vote amrun

do something original, something that others people haven't done. Maybe you could go into detail about the TF case as its notoriously thin atm. Also you havent made a post I like thus far.

This is not a question. What response do you want from this? "Wah, you don't like meeeee why nooooottt?"

No. Sorry.

I'll make a case on TF when I am good and ready to. I want to see him and others post more before I do so. That is why I seconded your request for a round of prods and made a statement asking for less theory discussion and more content.

You complaining about vezok being in too many large games, for example, is not game content. You badgering me about answering a question you haven't asked is not original content either.

[Amrun]

Porochaz:

I do intend to make a case on ToonFighter, but I'm extremely busy at the moment. The day isn't ending in the next couple of days, so I don't see the point in making a full case right now when I have a lot on my plate. It's finals week for me.

I do have reasoning on Toon Fighter, but I've already stated the basic line of thought about it in the thread, so I don't feel the need to bend over backwards for you when you could simply ISO me to find it.

I have provided more content than several others playing this game and I plan to provide more when I have the time to. You really don't have any grounds to attack me for lack of content when I'm far from content-less while others still are. (Off of the top of my head, I'm thinking of GummyBear, but there are others.)

Why the selective attack on me when your reasoning about me can be applied to many others you are not attacking?

[Amrun]

I did ISO when you said I had an unanswered question, but saw no question to answer and thus asked for clarification.

I am voting for Toon Fighter because pretty much all of his posts in ISO seem scummy to me, particularly his attacks on others.

I will do a better post on the subject when I get the opportunity.

P-edit: I haven't actually been defensive at all. When I saw the post originally, I made a note of it and planned to make a better case on toon fighter when I had the chance but saw no need to address the post particularly. I just took it as a "step up your game" reminder rather than actual pressure. I'm very busy at the moment and have been posting on my phone most of the time. Tomorrow is my last exam, thankfully, so I can hopefully start paying more attention to games more. When Porochaz addressed it again, I said that I would make a case on tf asap. I was literally posting that from dinner with my father-in-law so making a case right then wasn't my top prority.

[Amrun]

I can see how that might be taken. My point was that I WILL make a case on Toon Fighter before d1 is over.

[Amrun]

I think vezok's claim is odd, but I am inclined to believe it, because I've played with him before and it looks like something he would do if he was playing as town.

DeathNote's post was, however, quite scummy, and contradictory. I think he tried to say what Yos said before, but he made a mistake. That may have been just a slip, but it is scummy nonetheless. I think we need his confirmation to what he really meant by that.

This is the post that originally aroused my suspicion. I basically said my thoughts about it when I voted TF, but as a reprisal:

He does not define what is "scummy" or "contradictory" about what DN said and did not similarly attack Yosarian, instead attacking DN for supposedly repeating something Yosarian has said on the grounds of the content of that (and not sheeping).

Note that the suspicion of DeathNote is not followed by a vote. This post reads very much to me as if ToonFighter was trying to throw out someone as a suspect, but in a fence-sitty way to see if the case would garner support. This behavior ends up being repeated later with mozamis.

Why do people keep calling it a "policy lynch"?

A policy lynch is generally when you lynch someone to try to change their behavior, or to make a point, or something. Lynching a claimed VT isn't a policy lynch, it's a strategic lynch that actively improves the town's odds of winning, all else being equal.

Toon Fighter's post, though, looks pretty odd to me:

DeathNote's post was, however, quite scummy, and contradictory. I think he tried to say what Yos said before, but he made a mistake. That may have been just a slip, but it is scummy nonetheless. I think we need his confirmation to what he really meant by that.

I don't at all get what you're trying to say. If you think he was trying to repeat what I said, then why was it "scummy" or "contradictory"? What "mistake" do you think he made, that may more may not have been a "slip", but is "scummy"? What do you want him to clarify?

This post really feels like Toon Fighter is trying to have it both ways about the death note case, trying to attack Death Note and "sound reasonable" at the same time, and I dislike it.

He said we should lynch vez to narrow down the PR list. Well, that IS scummy. But, if we lynched someone OTHER than Vez, we would narrow down the PR list even more than with lynching Vez (assuming he is telling the truth). Therefore, something is wrong with his argument, and it contradicts itself. What he may have meant is to lynch vezok narrow down the scum list or something, but the way it is phrased, it looks scummy to me. I just didn't vote immediately because the game was just starting, but now I am more confident in my opinion of DN. VOTE: DeathNote

I agree with Yosarian's questions and thoughts on Toon Fighter's attacks on DN as quoted here, which he beat me to noting, but TF's response to this is even worse. His answers seem more like he's trying to appease. "Maybe he was... it looks scummy to me." He then places a vote only after he was questioned about the suspicion with a weak explanation of why he wasn't voting before.

I have ISO'd Death Note and I understand his argument, although I don't fully agree with it. He only talks about lynching Vez and not too much else. He seems to be ignoring other players and posts and concentrating only on lynching Vez. He, at the beginning of the day, expressed his intent on lynching him, and he seems to want to do just that, ignoring other suspects and players for the sake of getting a Vez wagon to lynch. The only thing he mentioned not about vezo was about Bamboo's fence-sitting.

So in between this post and the last post I quoted, TF promised to ISO DN. This is the result: more appeasement. He completely abandons his previous attack on DN, which never made any sense, saying he re-read DN and realized that DN's argument made sense after all. However, he doesn't abandon his suspicion of DN. He just finds a new angle, and another bad angle at that. The whole game's conversation was focusing around vezok at the time; DN was not alone in focusing on this issue.

@mozamis: I just ISO'd you and didn't like what I saw. You still maintain a very early vote with nearly no reasoning, you don't have any suspects, you just say you are against a vez lynch and say AGar looks town. You have nearly ZERO content on your posts.

FoS: mozamis

This is a repeat of the original DN behavior: throw out an unspecific attack on a player without a vote.

I just noticed this new attack on Furcolow, and I'm trying to be impartial, but there are evidence that may support his innocence.

1) As you may notice if you search for posts made by him, he didn't post anything* between May 1 and May 6. He may have been V/LA BUT
1b) He never said he'd be V/LA at any point of this game*, supporting the active lurking theory
2) He did show up just in time to answer a vote on him, and he had only made 3 posts before that one

As I am not getting anything satisfactory out of DeathNote (or any more scummy reads) I shall

unvote

and

vote: Furcolow

. Let's see how you act with a little more pressure on you. I want answers.

* He didn't post in any of the games he is playing in, and there are several, and he never said he'd be V/LA in any of them. Interpret that as you may. And yes, I know discussion of other games is frowned upon, but I just had to mention these facts.

This newer post is TERRIBLE. It reeks of distancing. It is a completely unprovoked but extensive defense of Furcolow, accompanied by a total sheeping vote on Furcolow and an abandoning of the previous suspicion on DN and mozamis (now CES, iirc). He even said there were no other scummy candidates besides DN, so much so that he was willing to vote for Furcolow, whom he just presented an elaborate, effort-extensive defense of and professed no conviction that Furc was actually scum with the vote. What happened to his suspicion of mozamis?

It looks to me like a flustered Furc scumbuddy who can't decide whether to distance or defend and decided to both, and in this confusion, forgot whom he had previously professed suspicion of.


More thoughts to come, on other issues.

[Amrun]

@Surye -there is no Vez "situation". A pseudo problem has been created by OTHER PEOPLE. Vez claimed. Cool. Its everyone elses reactions that is the issue.
Apologies if that is what you mean by "Vez situation".

?

He. Claimed. Vanilla.

When someone claims vanilla, generally speaking,, you lynch them, unless you don't want the town to win. Also, pro-town people shouldn't ever claim vanilla, only scum should ever consider doing that kind of thing, because if a pro-town person claims vanilla it hurts his win condition for no reason.

I'm confused about why you're calling that a problem "created by other people" and not by Vez.

This post by Yosarian2 bothered me, but I can't work out if it's scummy or if I just drastically disagree with him on this point of theory.

Yosarian, are you saying that people are really vanilla townies should LIE and claim PR? How in the world is that pro-town?!



About the Furc issue: I have never been in a game with Furc in which he lurked in this manner, as either alignment, so I'm viewing that as a null-tell for the moment. However, the evidence of active lurking is good and does make Furc look bad. The connection with Toon Fighter makes Furc look much worse in my eyes, but it makes far less sense to lynch Furc first, imho. I say we lynch TF and if TF flips scum, we look harder at Furc.

In general, I'd like to see some actual content from Furcolow to help judge his alignment by. As things stand, I'd much rather lynch Toon Fighter, but Furc the active lurker is not the worst lynch for today and I will vote him to achieve a lynch at deadline.

[Amrun]

So Toon posted a defense of you that you claimed was what you were going to say, and yet is an idiot, Furcolow?

[Amrun]

People with absolutely no content:

fuzzylightning (has only confirmed)
GummyBear (keeps stalling)

People with almost no content and/or that haven't posted in a long time:

MrBuddyLee
Kison
Furcolow
CES/mozamis
Primate
Medicated Lain
HezLucky
creampuffeater
Bamboomancer


Come on, guys. There is probably at least one scum in this group, but speculation on this front is pointless. This game has 17 pages and relatively low content. STEP IT UP, all of us collectively.


I particularly suspect MBL because I don't think his play thus far has fit his town meta.


p-edit: Furcolow, did you seriously just tell me to ISO Toon Fighter? Are you even reading this game?

[Amrun]

So, Zindaris, you are so content with your case on Surye, which is an explicit sheep of medicated lain and which is obviously a dying wagon, that you FoS TWO people in a new post without moving your vote OR addressing Surye again at all? You haven't questioned Surye either.

Zindaris new suspect.

[Amrun]

1. It wasn't that you attacked DN. It was how you did it.

2. But you presented nothing new between "can't decide" and "decided dn deserved a vote.". You just re-arranged your crappy case on DN to answer questions. Your case was so crappy that you abandoned it eventually.

3. The main issue I have here is the total abandonment of and distancing from your previous case only to jump onto another bad case on the same player. Yes, DN could have commented on other cases, but so could a lot of people. In fact, so could you. All you addressed during that whole period was DN. You're just as guilty of that as DN is.

4. Why did you expect mozamis t improve?

5. But you didn't present any evidence for why we should lynch Furcolow in spite of your evidence "for" him. In fact, your vote left the impression that you were voting for Furcolow merely because he was the popular wagon and you had no other major suspects, despite your previous suspicion of "super scummy" mozamis. Town don't just forget their top suspects like that.

[Amrun]

Zinadaris: I did misread that post you highlighted, which led to some confusion. My more important point, though, was that you have not followed Surye as scum or questioned her once throughout the game. Iirc, you have two posts that address something scummy Surye did, both briefly, and one or two more posts talking about voting for her in a votecount confusion.

In your big FoS post, you don't address Surye at all.

You have not made a case on Surye, for someone who "started the wagon" on her. If you're so convinced Surye is scum, why are you not a) trying to further your read on her, b) trying to convince others to lynch scum?

[Amrun]

Well, I maintain that you could have done more with Surye, but I retract the sheeping point due to my misread.

[Amrun]

I disagree. If you want ne to vote Surye, why don't you post a consolidated case to try and convince me?

[Amrun]

I have read your posts and I don't see anything concrete there. Nothing convinces me. I certainly do not have a townread on Surye, but I haven't seen anything to knock me neyond null.

You have actually posted more on surye than several others advocating that lynch. Perhaps one of the others should post a case. Really, you should all post cases. I'd still like you to expand.

I do have a reason for asking; sometimes, scum can post a lot of spread out points on a person that looks productive but doesn't really add up to anything.

[Amrun]

I haven't been on either wagon... I tried to get on vez wagon real quick, but forgot to unvote and changed my mind anyway. Thanks for the misrep, MBL.

[Amrun]

I didn't. I just. Didn't like my name being associated with actions I didn't take. I openly flip flopped about vezok, and I don't care about that, but I'm not on the furc wagon. I just wanted to correct it for the record.

[Amrun]

Not wanting to be misrepresented isn't being overly image cautious, MBL, and I did misread your list to begin with. If anything, I say my public flip flop on vezok shows that I am not overly concerned with image, but whatever. I'll leave you to your unspecific and vague attempts at scumhunting.

[Amrun]

ToonFighter still cannt decide whether or not to call Furc scummy to him. Yet another contradiction.

[Amrun]

Do not like. Auto bandwaggoning is bad
...
@Yos: I wanted to get more out of Furc to decide between scummy or absent, and the vote was the way to do it

That's all for now. When I see more, I post more

Yes, you called him scummy when I mentioned him, and yet said this lAst page when Yosarian2 questiened the same post.

It doesn't add up.

Also you criticize the Furc wagon for bandwagoning and yet your hop on that wagn was blatantly bandwagoning.

[Amrun]

ABR and Ypsarian, did you even read my huge case on Toon Fighter?

I said that post was insanely scummy far before Yosarian and no one so much as commented on it.

I just find it strange that you responded to Yosarian's single regurgitated point and not my entire case, ABR.

[Amrun]

I questioned the post not long after you made it, though. And why vote if you weren't sure and then attack people for bandwagoning?

[Amrun]

HezLucky - one of the reasons I suspect Zindaras is his multiple FoSes, which I see more often in scum. If I neglected to note that. It was simply a mistake.

[Amrun]

Zindaras seems to be trying hard to be useful without actually being useful - a common scum tactic.

[Amrun]

I like the medicated lain case, but I like my TF case better.

[Amrun]

What, you think vezok is scum now?

[Amrun]

I thought so. Just clarifying.

[Amrun]

So your problem is the use of the word "extensive?". You do realize it's a subjective word, right?

How do you feel about Toon Fighter? What's your read on him, ML? I noticed you completely forgot that part of your comment on my case on TF, and if either of you should flip scum, this will become a chainsaw.

[Amrun]

So express them.

[Amrun]

So. Express. Them.

[Amrun]

I'm assuming you mean my case on TF. mozamis isn't even playing anymore.

Who is Valerie?

[Amrun]

IS and I were scumbuddies with Furc.

He got lynched D1.

We won the game withot him.

'Nuff said.

[Amrun]

Who is Liam?

Can we stop using first names?

[Amrun]

You seriously have nowhere for that vote to go?

[Amrun]

Primate:

Why is self-voting indicative of town?

What do you think of my case on Toon Fighter?

What do you think of the case(s) made on Medicated Lain?

[Amrun]

You didn't. Stuff has happened.

Here's a summary:

-vezok claimed VT out of the gate. Cue lots of fucking arguing about this.
-Toon Fighter is scum. ISO me for a full case.
-Several people suspect Surye.
-Several people suspect Medicated Lain.
-Furcolow active lurked and is a leading wagon that recently claimed VT.

You should read, though.

[Amrun]

I also want a Surye re-cap. Never understood that case.

Re: DeathNote

I've mislynched him before and he basically always plays scummy. This is the most pro-town I've ever seen him play, though it's still frustrating.

I don't think he's scum because of how toon fighter attacked him so scummily.

[Amrun]

What is the deadline?

[Amrun]

In general, I'm not a fan of the "easy lynches" argument, but Porochaz is catching my attention with this, and not in a good way.

[Amrun]

Last time I played with him, I led a lynch on him. I was scum, but there were multiple scumteams and at first, I thought he was scum. By the time the wagon materialized, I realized he was town, but stuck with it anyway as I didn't really care.

His stunning defense? Claiming jester.

He was actually town.

No offense, DN, but that is quintessential VI behavior. Your play has been better than that this game, though.

He is better than vezok or Furcolow this game, but this is a strong group of players and he's clearly one of the weaker ones.

P-edit: I simply think DN is town and my top scumread is attacking him. I see town motivation in his posts and more candor than I have observed previously. In addition, you've been on both the vezok and Furcolow wagons, iirc, correct me if I've wrong, which completes my point: you have a history of attacking the weaker players, ie going for easy lynches.

I have a relative townread on him because of all the scummy attacks on him and you just joined the ranks, Porochaz.

[Amrun]

I just checked. Your votes in this game are as follows:

-Amrun
-Vezok
-Furcolow
-DeathNote

At the time you voted for me, I was in the midst of exams and slacking. As soon as I made it clear that I could defend myself competently, you backed off.

When your top three suspects in this game are the three weakest players, two of which have claime, and one of which I see no case on, there is something wrong with your reads.

If they were part of other reads, it wouldn't be so bad, but by themselves, they add up to scum looking for a mislynch.

Scumhunting's hard as scum, huh, Porochaz?

[Amrun]

Pretend some more that what I am doing right now is not scumhunting, Porochaz.

I never said you didn't have any reasoning on any of those. By far, your best reasoning lies in your Furcolow vote.

My point is: these three weakest players are showing up on your radar. That's understandable. What I do NOT understand is how ONLY THESE THREE PLAYERS warrant your suspicion. Sure, you attack them, with varying degrees of success. They're easy to attack. They're weak players.

I do happen to believe they're all town for various reasons, though not fully decided on Furc so I guess we can call that null.

What makes you suspicious to me, Porochaz, is that you are ONLY attacking the weakest players. You are not attacking the weak players in tandem with other better but scummy players. You're JUST attacking the weak players, and usually not with a good case, either.

And also gut, which has been twinging at your posts for awhile but I couldn't put a finger on it.

I am not impressed with your reasoning on DeathNote. I welcome you to impress me.

[Amrun]

Furcolow, if you're town, scumhunt. You're decent at it when you try. If you're town.

[Amrun]

I am not attacking you because you're attacking DN alone. I see it as the final straw in a long line of attacks on weak players, if that makes more sense.

If it had been in this order: DN, Furcolow, vezok, I'd have attacked you for your vezok vote. See what I mean?

But I have, of course, asserted a town read on DeathNote because I have one on him. I will elaborate a little more than I have. In the beginning of the game, he put more effort into scumhunting than I saw him do the entire game that I was in with him before. Later, his posts have stopped having that same purpose, but they DO read as genuine to me. I think he feels a little like his head is over water and he can't grasp some of the cases that are flying around. I don't think DN-scum would admit that point blank like that. Add that to the fact that my top scumread has attacked him in a fashion that I do not read as scum on scum.

I am certainly not going to abandon my Toon Fighter vote for you, Porochaz, but IGMEOY.

[Amrun]

What makes you suspicious to me, Porochaz, is that you are ONLY attacking the weakest players. You are not attacking the weak players in tandem with other better but scummy players. You're JUST attacking the weak players, and usually not with a good case, either.

What do you think of the fact Surye has gone after only vezokpiraka and Furcolow all day?

I think that doesn't look great for Surye, but still, 3 > 2.

[Amrun]

Hmm.

IS is giving me a bit of weird vibes. He tends to tunnel more as scum, imho.

Porochaz, that vote on me is weak and you know it.

[Amrun]

But no one else is voting for me. You pretended your vote was going somewhere more useful when it is not.

[Amrun]

How much more of an explanation do you need that this post was not enough, Porochaz? You think it is pro-town to make a whole town case on someone? It is not. I usualy don't explain my townreads even this much until endgame at the least because I don't think it's good for town, this is all the explanation warrantedd for day 1, but passing it off as "because he was town in another game" is blatant misrep, Porochaz.

I am not attacking you because you're attacking DN alone. I see it as the final straw in a long line of attacks on weak players, if that makes more sense.

If it had been in this order: DN, Furcolow, vezok, I'd have attacked you for your vezok vote. See what I mean?

But I have, of course, asserted a town read on DeathNote because I have one on him. I will elaborate a little more than I have. In the beginning of the game, he put more effort into scumhunting than I saw him do the entire game that I was in with him before. Later, his posts have stopped having that same purpose, but they DO read as genuine to me. I think he feels a little like his head is over water and he can't grasp some of the cases that are flying around. I don't think DN-scum would admit that point blank like that. Add that to the fact that my top scumread has attacked him in a fashion that I do not read as scum on scum.

I am certainly not going to abandon my Toon Fighter vote for you, Porochaz, but IGMEOY.

[Amrun]

Furcolow, this game isn't even close to hostile.

If you're going to scumhunt, start now.

[Amrun]

That's a cop out and an excuse and doesn't look at all like the Furcolow town I have seen.

[Amrun]

I'm caught up now, and I have a much higher percentage of being a town-aligned-PR than Vezokpiraka's 0%.

I am a vanilla townie, like Vezokpiraka has claimed

Furc, why'd you hint at possibly having a power role when you started getting in trouble?

If anything that kind of gave away the fact that I was a VT to anyone who is experienced. No PR is going to say that. I felt bad looking back on that, thanks for bringing up something seriously anti-town in my having to claim due to my idiotic bandwagon growing

The lack of effort MBL is putting into this game is really starting to concern me.

[Amrun]

I'd like a response to 723, Porochaz.

[Amrun]

The lack of effort MBL is putting into this game is really starting to concern me.

That sounds sincere. How 'bout a pointed question instead of a dead-end observation?

How about you put some effort into the game and scumhunting?

[Amrun]

I'd like a response to 723, Porochaz.

Put simply, if you were that worried you wouldn't have said anything. If you are going to speak up about it then you have to stick your money where your mouth is otherwise you keep quiet and let him answer questions without your interjection.

How does response even remotely relate to what it is that I said in this post?

[Amrun]

Oh, and if you had noticed, Porochaz, I've given lots of reasons why I believe Death Note is town. I even requoted that post for you and then asked you to respond to it, though you still seem not to have read it.

[Amrun]

Oh, and if you had noticed, Porochaz, I've given lots of reasons why I believe Death Note is town. I even requoted that post for you and then asked you to respond to it, though you still seem not to have read it.

I read it, I thought about it and well, then I thought it wasnt good enough for reasons Ive stated before.

The reasons you stated before was that I had no reason other than "he was town in another game," which was never true to begin with.

It's clear you didn't read that post when you attacked me, but now you can't back down since the post was made before your attack.

Hmm.

[Amrun]

LLama, if TF is scummier than Surye to you, why does the Surye wagon look better than the TF wagon to you?

[Amrun]

Claims:

Vezok: VT
Furcolow: VT

[Amrun]

Every post MBL makes has him creep up my scumreads. What kind of shit attack on gummybears is that?

Gummybears has been a huge pile of useless, but that's what you attack them for?

[Amrun]

MBL's 770 caused me to re-evaluate the MBL/GB situation.

The attack is weak, but it isn't as bad as I first thought, especiallly after the clarification in 770. It is, at the very least, original, which is more than I can say for the rest of MBL's ISO.

To answer your question, MBL, no, that is not me going on record saying that. I think your point about the dodging the question is okay; I don't think they dodged it, but they didn't answer it as fully as they could have. However, the thing about them moving their vote as a response to your pressure is reading more like pure after the fact fabrication to me. I think their post indicates pretty clearly why they were changing their vote, and deadline is a valid reason to doo so.

That being said, Gummybear moving a feeble vote on vez to a feeble vote on Furc is severely underwhelming.

[Amrun]

MBL has also been nominated for a scummy for his scum play in the past. Just saying.

[Amrun]

No, that was my exact point, Yosarian. It doesn't matter.

MBL likes to use my perfect scum record and scummy nomination as a point that I'm more likely to be scum; hence his various comments like, "Amrun always looks town" and "Amrun is very good scum."

That annoys me precisely because it has no validity and fosters paranoia.

I only mentioned his scummy to turn it back around on him so he would stop using it as a point against me.

As a matter of fact, his gummybears case is making me feel much better about him. I was concerned about his lack of effort, but maybe he was just lazy.

[Amrun]

Zindaras: good point about ABR retroactively adopting the percentages thing. I hadn't noticed that.

[Amrun]

Town needs to work together, CES.

Past history means nothing. Ythill had a perfect scum record until team mafia, where he got lynched D1 in dram's game.

Needless to say, Ythill has a lot more experience than me. 3 won scumgames doesn't mean a lot and MBL's paranoia mongering does no good for the town.

[Amrun]

Between Furc and Surye, I would vote for Surye, and basically plan to, before deadline.

But for now, I'm sticking with Toon Fighter. I don't know what else I can do to convince you all that he's scum...

[Amrun]

I admit he's not doing it as explicitly in this game as he's doing in another ongoing game, and it bled over a little. The principle is basically the same, though.

[Amrun]

Why not post your page 5 reads so you're accountable for SOMETHING, RC?

[Amrun]

Don't whine, IS. Surye is the lynch. If day ended right now, Surye would die. Wagon analysis can come tomorrow.

Personally, I'm not convinced Surye is scum. If my vote was needed to secure a lynch, I'd vote. It's not, so I won't.

I would also hammer, since were just waiting around saying nothing useful as we wait for Surye to die.

[Amrun]

No.

I am just tired of today's bickering.

I won't place a vote because I don't think Surye is scum. I DO think Toon Fighter is scum. It's that simple.

[Amrun]

What?

[Amrun]

Primate is currently voting for Surye, so yes.

[Amrun]

Oh, haha. Didn't catch that.

[Amrun]

TOON FIGHTER

DON'T FORGET TOON FIGHTER

WE CAN STILL MAKE IT HAPPEN

[Amrun]

The Helios mechanic makes it easier.

Even medicated lain is a better lynch than these. Ugh.

Gummy is even better.

[Amrun]

For the record, Llama Fluff and I feel exactly the same about this issue. I like the wagon, but dislike the case and think the chance of a mislynch here is about 80%. I'm crossing my fingers for that 20% but we'll see. :/

[Amrun]

I was really enjoying this game. Postgame, I would love to know why scum killed me.

Go town.

[Amrun]

I just want to take this moment to say that my reads were amazing in this game.

[Amrun]

Agreed.

I was not happy that happened.