Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[SensFan]

k

[SensFan]

Yosarian, we don't know Voz is a VT. He just claimed that. So we dont have ANY info on him.

He's either a VT or he's not Town. There aren't any other options, so I would suggest you stop thinking there might be.

Anyways,

Vote: vezok

.

[SensFan]

Not with you. Why do we assume that because he has claimed VT, he is either VT or scum. How do we know he is not a cop, serial killer, vig etc etc etc
How do you know there arent any other options?

If he's a Cop, then he's not a Townie. Therefore he's lying. But Town doesn't lie. Therefore, he's not a Cop.
If he's a Serial Killer, then he's not Town. Therefore, he's not Town.
If he's a Vig, then he's not a Townie. Therefore, he's lying. But Town doesn't lie. Therefore, he's not a Vig.
By induction, my thesis holds that he's either a Townie or he's not Town.

[SensFan]

Not with you. Why do we assume that because he has claimed VT, he is either VT or scum. How do we know he is not a cop, serial killer, vig etc etc etc
How do you know there arent any other options?

If he's a Cop, then he's not a Townie. Therefore he's lying. But Town doesn't lie. Therefore, he's not a Cop.
If he's a Serial Killer, then he's not Town. Therefore, he's not Town.
If he's a Vig, then he's not a Townie. Therefore, he's lying. But Town doesn't lie. Therefore, he's not a Vig.
By induction, my thesis holds that he's either a Townie or he's not Town.

I just meant he could be town but a PR. (A cop is a townie etc) Though I grant you, I can't see why he would lie about it.
My point really was that I just think we should be entirely neutral about his claim. I do see what you mean. I just think we should ignore it really.
ps induction is inference from experience -you meant a priori reasoning

To clarify the terminology I used:
Townie - A role with no abilities and a Pro-Town win condition
Town - A role with a Pro-Town win condition

He has claimed to be a Townie. Thus, he is either a Townie, a Town PR, or not Town. If he's a Town PR, then he's not a Townie, then he's a liar. But Town doesn't lie. Thus, he's not a Town PR. Thus, he's either a Townie or not Town.

[SensFan]

Ebwop, dont know what happened:

except he claimed vanilla.

So...him claiming Townie precludes him from being one of {Townie, Scum}?
I'm not following.

[SensFan]

I meant, we can't sensibly lynch him for that...

Is that a challenge?

[SensFan]

"Let's either lynch Vezok, or the scummiest guy voting for Vezok" makes sense to me, in a way. If Vezok is town, then there's probably some scum voting for him.

I'd be surprised if there aren't Scum both on and off of the wagon. Is there any particular reason why you would think it's best to look on the wagon?

[SensFan]

"Let's move to another wagon for the sake of information" is pretty much the easiest way to guarantee that the wagon will lead to nothing.
"Let's move to another wagon for information, get them to claim, and then come back to the guy we already know we want to lynch and already claimed Vanilla" is worse.

[SensFan]

"Let's move to another wagon for information, get them to claim, and then come back to the guy we already know we want to lynch and already claimed Vanilla" is worse.

Why?

Please tell me you do actually see the problem with that statement. Please.

[SensFan]

Does anybody know MoS's stance on cults? Agent Smith comes to mind in this game...

Here you go.

[SensFan]

I'm not going to agree to a plan that involves a Cop claim on D2 of a Large game. Especially not when it also involves delaying the inevitable lynch of someone who has prematurely claimed Vanilla, and by all accounts is null at best even if he's telling the truth.

[SensFan]

You clearly missed my point. I believe his wagon will be useless regarding information, and I believe him surviving on is dangerous to town. Did I not make that clear, or do you find them mutually exclusive?

Do you think his wagon will suddenly gain information if it happens 3 days from now?

[SensFan]

Im not saying your scum. Im saying your bad for town.

If the guy isn't scum, we dont lynch him.
I totally disagree with all that "bad for town"stuff -its normally just a way of saying " I don't like this person". I do not care if he is the worst or best player in the world, if we don't think he is scum, we don't lynch him.

Yes, it would actually be a

really really good thing

if Vezok is alive in a 3p endgame. We're all just saying we want him dead because we're really mean.

[SensFan]

vez wagon is looking like cyber bullying.

Then grow some thicker skin. Seriously, this is a competitive team game. I'm not insulting vezok as a person in any way, but it is entirely relevant to the conversation if I think that his ability as a (hypothetical) Townie would be negligible at best. If I think he's not a very good player, then it absolutely should affect my decision about lynching him, and so it's well within the bounds of the game to bring up.

[SensFan]

It's short for Isolation. It means using the 'Display posts by user:' function to see just that person's posts.

[SensFan]

For what reason are you voting me? I have not been active in this game whatsoever, and just promised to dedicate to reading the game.

You claim you've not been active, but that's a lie. You've been purposefully refraining from posting in the thread.

Unvote, Vote: Furcolow

[SensFan]

Not true. I've been busy.

Bull. Shit.

There have been 365 posts in this thread. You have 4 of them, one of which is a /confirm. Thus, fair to say your posting has been extremely sparse. And yet, let's look at the timing of your non-/confirm posts.
1. This post comes less than 5 hours and 8 posts after Poro mentioned your name pursuant to replacement.
2. This post comes 2 minutes and immediately after CES voted you.
3. This post comes 4 minutes and 2 posts after I vote you and accuse you of active lurking.

So yes, your claim is bullshit. None of the posts contain any inkling of content, so it wasn't even just suspicious timing that you happened to be posting at the time. I just don't buy that you've posted absolutely no content, but showed up 3 times very soon after being mentioned.

[SensFan]

Basically, what Poro just posted x3.

[SensFan]

I just noticed this new attack on Furcolow, and I'm trying to be impartial, but there are evidence that may support his innocence.

1) As you may notice if you search for posts made by him, he didn't post anything* between May 1 and May 6. He may have been V/LA BUT
1b) He never said he'd be V/LA at any point of this game*, supporting the active lurking theory
2) He did show up just in time to answer a vote on him, and he had only made 3 posts before that one

As I am not getting anything satisfactory out of DeathNote (or any more scummy reads) I shall

unvote

and

vote: Furcolow

. Let's see how you act with a little more pressure on you. I want answers.

* He didn't post in any of the games he is playing in, and there are several, and he never said he'd be V/LA in any of them. Interpret that as you may. And yes, I know discussion of other games is frowned upon, but I just had to mention these facts.

Yes or no answer only to this question:
Do you think it's a coincidence that his only 3 posts are, respectively, 5 hours, 2 minutes and 4 minutes after being mentioned/voted by someone else?

[SensFan]

In that case, what's the relevance to your point that he wasn't posting, such that it "may support his innocence"?

[SensFan]

He may have not posted in the last few days because he was V/LA, and only just came back, saw the attacks at him and posted. I don't believe it is a coincidence, but I can't rule out that explanation

Wait a second. You think it's at all likely that he:
*Showed up for the first time 8 posts and 5 hours after being called out for replacement

(possible)

AND

*Then left, showing up 2 minutes after being voted, supplying still no content

(unlikely)

AND

*Stuck around for 10 minutes, still providing absolutely nothing, and made another empty post 4 minutes after being voted

(implausible)

[SensFan]

He may have not posted in the last few days because he was V/LA, and only just came back, saw the attacks at him and posted. I don't believe it is a coincidence, but I can't rule out that explanation

Wait a second. You think it's at all likely that he:
*Showed up for the first time 8 posts and 5 hours after being called out for replacement

(possible)

AND

*Then left, showing up 2 minutes after being voted, supplying still no content

(unlikely)

AND

*Stuck around for 10 minutes, still providing absolutely nothing, and made another empty post 4 minutes after being voted

(implausible)

I never said it was likely. I said it was a possibility that we can't rule out before we hear from the man of the moment, Furcolow

Spoiler Alert!

Furcolow is going to deny actively lurking, and instead claim that he really hasn't had time to read/follow the thread. He definitively won't admit to reading along in the thread, but only speaking up when he perceives the need to do damage control.

[SensFan]

I have read the entire thread
ToonFighter provided my defense for me. I haven't been on MafiaScum for the beginning of May. I have had issues in real life which I forgot to inform my moderators of which I am sorry for. I also did not have this game subscribed after I confirmed, so I did not check it from April 29th to May 1st. Big deal. I'm caught up now, and I have a much higher percentage of being a town-aligned-PR than Vezokpiraka's 0%.

Bull. Shit.

I refuse to believe that of your 3 posts, 2 of them happen to come within 4 minutes of someone voting you, but that you're not reading the thread without posting. Bull. Shit.

[SensFan]

I have read the entire thread
ToonFighter provided my defense for me. I haven't been on MafiaScum for the beginning of May. I have had issues in real life which I forgot to inform my moderators of which I am sorry for. I also did not have this game subscribed after I confirmed, so I did not check it from April 29th to May 1st. Big deal. I'm caught up now, and I have a much higher percentage of being a town-aligned-PR than Vezokpiraka's 0%.

Bull. Shit.

I refuse to believe that of your 3 posts, 2 of them happen to come within 4 minutes of someone voting you, but that you're not reading the thread without posting. Bull. Shit.

Unvote, Vote: Furc

There. Now I should get a response to my post within about 2 minutes.

[SensFan]

Damnit. 8 minutes; I was off by 4.

[SensFan]

FoS: Furcolow

I honestly buy the inactivity thing but I think his Vezok vote is scummy. Fur's apparently been inactive throughout the site and I don't see why we shouldn't believe him. I will only consider his inactivity suspicious if this becomes a trend throughout the game.

The inactivity isn't the problem. It's the selective activity.

[SensFan]

MBL, are you arguing that you think both of the wagons are bad, or are you just compiling data to examine IS' point?

[SensFan]

Oh look. Furcolow is now outright playing against the interests of the Town regardless of his alignment.

[SensFan]

Oh look. Furcolow is now outright playing against the interests of the Town regardless of his alignment.

If he's scum he isn't.

Yes he is.

[SensFan]

I'm not saying Vezok is confirmed town in my eyes, but he deserves a fair chance at playing the game.

He had a fair chance at playing the game. Then he claimed vanilla. Once you jump out of a plane without a parachute, you probably aren't going to win the competitive skydiver's competition.

Also, Yossy, are you seriously saying that a Vanilla on the chopping block shouldn't claim? I really hope I'm misinterpreting that.

Absolutly. A vanilla at lynch -1 should refuse to claim and just keep defending himself. The last time I claimed vanilla under any circumstances was about 4 years ago, and that was only because someone had claimed tracker and had claimed he saw me go somewhere when I couldn't have done so.

While I agree with your principle, doesn't that set a bad precedent for Scum to exploit if Vanillas don't claim at the point when it's 'Claim or Die'? If there is a decent chance that a Town player would refuse to claim in such a position (namely, VTs), then Scum can also refuse to claim. And from my experience, the vast majority of Mafia players don't actually have the guts to pull the trigger on someone who is stalling instead of claiming.

[SensFan]

Sensfan: Let me put it this way.

Scenerio A: Both scum and vanilla town refuse to claim when at lynch -1.

Scenerio B: Both scum and vanilla town claim vanilla when at lynch -1.

I think scenerio A is better for the town. Someone claiming vanilla town dosn't actually give the town any real information, but it gives the scum a lot of information.

I'm not so sure. If Scum claim Vanilla, they get rope. If they claim Power of some sort, they either get rope or some plan to test them occurs. If they keep stalling, they at the very least drag on the day for several pages of noise while no one has the balls to hammer.

[SensFan]

Sensfan: Let me put it this way.

Scenerio A: Both scum and vanilla town refuse to claim when at lynch -1.

Scenerio B: Both scum and vanilla town claim vanilla when at lynch -1.

I think scenerio A is better for the town. Someone claiming vanilla town dosn't actually give the town any real information, but it gives the scum a lot of information.

I'm not so sure. If Scum claim Vanilla, they get rope. If they claim Power of some sort, they either get rope or some plan to test them occurs. If they keep stalling, they at the very least drag on the day for several pages of noise while no one has the balls to hammer.

Last part doesn't make much sense.

Player is put at L-1.
Non-voting player threatens to hammer, demands claim.
Player at L-1 stalls.
Non-voting player hammers.

Simple. If a player is saying they're not going to claim when at L-1 with a hammer threat, or deflecting/diverting the attention, they are essentially saying "Kill me now."

You're absolutely right, of course. The problem is that in the vast majority of cases, no one off the wagon has the balls to actually hammer someone who is stalling their claim.

[SensFan]

Just curious. How do you accuse me both of being scummy for not scumhunting, and then also call me scummy for being the first person on both of the major wagons?

[SensFan]

Just curious. How do you accuse me both of being scummy for not scumhunting, and then also call me scummy for being the first person on both of the major wagons?

Those things are not mutually exclusive. Being on wagons is not scumhunting.

I didn't give you any points for that though.

In the case of Vez, there's no scumhunting required. It's objectively best play to lynch him at this point based on his history and his play in this game.

[SensFan]

Zindaras seems to be trying hard to be useful without actually being useful - a common scum tactic.

I agree.

Unvote, vote Zindaras

Please stop voting people who are obviously town. There literally are about 20 better places to put your vote.

The fact that you keep repeating over and over again that certain people are "obviously town" doesn't actually make it so.

[SensFan]

@Sensfan: Who do you think is likely to be scum outside of Furc?

I don't have any strong scumreads besides Furc. I'm not sure it matters a ton at this juncture, since I don't see a scenario where I vote someone other than vezok/Furc today.

[SensFan]

Tomorrow

Tomorrow never comes.

Please tell me this is a really bad joke attempt.

[SensFan]

@Sens/BMQ/TF/CPE - Why is Furc scum? If you mention policy lynching, or even insinuate it, I am disqualifying the rest of your response.

Have you seen me use Policy for my Furc-vote at all? vezok, yes (and I'll respond to your vezok points later; I'm on my phone right now).

The bulk of the reasons that Furc is Scum is the blatant active lurking, and the OMGUS that went with it. Until the wagon formed on him, he was completely nonexistent, only bothering to post when someone either voted him or asked for him to be replaced. That was enough for a vote, as I talked about at the time, but THEN he decided to go out and vote himself. Game, Set and Match.

[SensFan]

ML, if you think that the activity-based case on Furc has anything to do with him being inactive, then you should probably try and actually read the relevant portions of the thread. kthx.

[SensFan]

In post 357, Cessy starts the Furcolow wagon. I just love the reply in 359. The angry outburst, followed by the "oh, woops, you're not voting me."
Porochaz (365): Vote for timing.
SensFan (366): Calls out Furry for the same reasoning, but doesn't vote.

For the record, I had already voted him for timing at the time of my 366.

[SensFan]

@Sens/BMQ/TF/CPE - Why is Furc scum? If you mention policy lynching, or even insinuate it, I am disqualifying the rest of your response.

Have you seen me use Policy for my Furc-vote at all? vezok, yes (and I'll respond to your vezok points later; I'm on my phone right now).

The bulk of the reasons that Furc is Scum is the blatant active lurking, and the OMGUS that went with it. Until the wagon formed on him, he was completely nonexistent, only bothering to post when someone either voted him or asked for him to be replaced. That was enough for a vote, as I talked about at the time, but THEN he decided to go out and vote himself. Game, Set and Match.

Willing to make an avatar bet on it mister game, set, and match?
I'd love to, buddy.

Nope. For many reasons.

[SensFan]

As for people on the Surye wagon, do we really want to wagon someone up to a claim at this point, hope he comes online to claim, and then hope that enough people are around after to move on to Furc if Surye's claim saves him? Isn't 2 claims enough for one day?

[SensFan]

Vote: Llama

[SensFan]

@mod: is there a significance to why Surye flipped

green

and these three flipped

blue

?

Comments/etc in a while. Having four flips to work with is magically awesome.

I will be V/LA this weekend so I'll try to get a post in before then.

The OP has them all in blue.

[SensFan]

Toon, stop being an idiot. If a Cop comes out because of what LF says, then he's not being lied to. You can't combine both that he's rolefishing and that he's talking about something he thinks is a fake.

[SensFan]

Uggghhh falling victim to apathy/busyness/sleepiness.

Tomorrow is when it'll have to be, despite my (empty) promises.

>.<

Your bugging me now. Post properly or replace out. No middle ground.

It'll happen. Eventually. My other game's deadline is much sooner though.

Was the other game's deadline also "much sooner" than this one 3 days ago when you hammered someone less than 12 hours before a deadline and still didn't provide any content?

[SensFan]

Nope.

But I clearly explained why I was waiting until today.

Get off my nuts.

Oh, right.

Well, then, just so everyone in this game knows, I've decided to wait until I see ABR's flip (if and when it comes) to talk about my reads after that, since I think it will be good to just read the game after I know if I should just sheep his views. That's the cool thing to do, right?

In the meantime,

Unvote; Vote: RC

[SensFan]

The three vote ReaperCharlie wagon is terrible and an easy lynch. He isn't playing the game. No read there whatsoever.

Are you purposefully ignoring the fact that RC claimed to be too busy/apathetic/lazy to give a single read all of D1 or even read the damn thread, but still chose to hammer someone less than 4 hours after they hit L-1? So not only was he checking the thread regularily, but he was reading enough to know the VC, and chose to quickhammer Surye while claiming he was unable to read the thread and provide a single useful thought.

You may call that "not playing the game" and "no read". I call that "purposefully avoiding posting content", "active lurking" and "scummy".

[SensFan]

V/LA this weekend.

May be able to post Friday.

ಠ_ಠ

Listen, I'm not looking to lynch a lurker on Day 2. We've got better leads to follow.

Would you rather wait until D10 LyLo to try and figure out if the lurker(s) is/are Scum? Or should we get them to start contributing now, so that we have more contributors going forward, or at worst we can deal with them now if they refuse to help themselves, while we still have some wiggle room?

[SensFan]

Cult recruiter seems too dramatic a role to get in this fashion for me to treat llamafluffs result that seriously, and earlier in the game mos as mod derided someone for the idea that he might put cults in the game so I don’t really give too much credence to the idea that kison is actually a cult recruiter. It’s probably some kind of scum message sender who overplayed his hand or similar.

Got to be honest I’ve never really liked bandwagon anaysis before a few people turn up dead and you can analyse whether scum were likely to join in groups. I’m increasingly not a fan of “one-of” arguments generally.

@Sens: Why’d you vote Llamafluff?

Vote GummyBear

I’ll review and maybe move that vote tonight, but I don’t vote enough so best try and break out of a bad habit.

On my phone for the weekend, so can't properly explain as I would want to. Will give a more thorough explanation on Monday, but for now I'll just say that it was for his way of going about evaluating cases/wagons on D1.

[SensFan]

My main suspects are Internet Stranger, Zindaras, Medicated Lain and Gummy.

You've given no reasons for voting or suspecting anyone, and two of your main suspects are just OMGUS for voting you. I wasn't that scummy yesterday when you actually placed a vote on me. Now look at what you're doing. You're just yelling at Zindaras for talking about the Surye wagon, and avoiding all other statements being made. This isn't making me think any less about where my vote is right now, I'll say that much.

ABR's Town. Get over your feelings of 'He's not being nice' and 'he's not playing like I do', and you'll see that he's Town.

Now can we go back to lynching the non-contributors?

[SensFan]

What makes you so sure? Just "he's town, shut up and move on" is your best comment?

My best comment? Not at all. But I'm on my phone, so I figured I'd keep things brief and to the point.

[SensFan]

Yo ABR, should I start ignoring anything that Hez posts because it's all useless IioA PbPA walls; because he keeps repeating over and over that I'm not scumhunting while contradicting himself; or because he literally just called me scummy for making a post that would look bad if a confirmedTown person were instead confirmedScum?
Or should I just go with d) All of the above?

[SensFan]

Don't worry. I'll rip your 'arguments' (read: fluff) to pieces first thing Monday morning.

[SensFan]

Why not do it now? My main argument against you is that you post nothing but fluff, are actively lurking and seem to refuse to engage in any kind of scumhunting whatsoever, combined with your questionable votes.

The only way I could really see you "countering" my argument is by actual scumhunting, in which case I look forward to it.

If you bothered to read my posts at all - which, i know, is asking a lot of you - you'd know I'm on my phone right now.

Then again, if you read my posts, younprobably wouldn't make such baseless claims about me...

[SensFan]

Cult recruiter seems too dramatic a role to get in this fashion for me to treat llamafluffs result that seriously, and earlier in the game mos as mod derided someone for the idea that he might put cults in the game so I don’t really give too much credence to the idea that kison is actually a cult recruiter. It’s probably some kind of scum message sender who overplayed his hand or similar.

Got to be honest I’ve never really liked bandwagon anaysis before a few people turn up dead and you can analyse whether scum were likely to join in groups. I’m increasingly not a fan of “one-of” arguments generally.

@Sens: Why’d you vote Llamafluff?

Vote GummyBear

I’ll review and maybe move that vote tonight, but I don’t vote enough so best try and break out of a bad habit.

On my phone for the weekend, so can't properly explain as I would want to. Will give a more thorough explanation on Monday, but for now I'll just say that it was for his way of going about evaluating cases/wagons on D1.

Alright, here's the full version. For the tl;dr people among you, just refer to the above quote and pretend I didn't expand on it.

---

That said I really am not loving a Furc lynch, the wagon on him is all sorts of twitchy. I mean its like leaning scum read, leaning scum read, leaning scum read, neutral, scum read, leaning scum... I would be willing to call ONE person on that wagon town right now. No one else is past neutral.

The wagon on him is just scum read after scum read, would be happy just nuking that entire wagon at this point. I mean you have one sorta town read in AGar, and then the closest anyone else comes is really slight scum read.

Because everyone on the Surye wagon is a decent strength town read and at worst neutral/lean town to the point where I would bet big that no more than one of those five are scum, and be 50/50 on all town. Based on that alone its reason to look at a person again.

I mean, I still like who composes the Surye wagon, but I really dont like the basis of it too that much of an extent, yet the Furc one is far worse in living members over/under is at 70% of scum, and the basis is so much worse.

I may have missed another similar such statement of his in my skimming of his iso, but 4 is plenty to make my point. As Yos has alluded to earlier, Scum lynchrate in D1 of games is abysmally bad, since D1 is the point in the game when information is lowest and so Scum manipulation potential is highest. Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense to base your reads of players during D1 on your reads of the players who have a scumread on the player in question. That may be a little confusing, but it's basically saying that doing what LF did for most of D1 is terrible scumhunting; since the reads of each player are pretty bad during D1, it must therefore be even worse to base your read of X off of your reads of A,B,C who each have a scumread on X.
Conviniently enough for Llama, though, not only is it poor Town play to play like that, but it also makes for very good Scum play. Since he commented only indirectly on the main wagons, he didn't 'need' to give a read of the wagon'd player to give his support (or lack thereof) to the wagon, and so no matter what happens, he can't be accused of buddying/bussing/framing/defending the lynched player once their role becomes public. It even goes one step further than that: if he gets heat for his stance on any wagon that transpired, it lets him easily deflect it with "But my stance was based on the alignments of A, B, C; we need to lynch them now."

Is it a failproof case? Hardly; in fact I've already removed my vote from him. At the time, though, I considered it a better lead to go off of than anything else I noticed from D1, and I still think it's worth noting.

[SensFan]

Then what do you think is a better thing to do? (I

may

take it under consideration because i'm only on page 2 ;-; But another thing is I don't like to just start without really commenting on most that has happened)

Ignore him. A PBPA provides an idea of your suspicions, which is more than useful (for us and for you).

Thank you, that helps.

Yeah, no. Mark me down as someone else who won't read a PBPA. It's useless and scummy, all at the same time.

[SensFan]

Ugh. This turned out longer than I had hoped; my apologies. For the tl;dr among you:

tl;dr: Hez selectively chooses single isolated posts of mine to accuse me of active lurking while ignoring my other posts, calls me Scum for disagreeing with him, calls me Scum for voting someone based on their active lurking, and then votes me for active lurking.

- SensFan's posts like #85 are doing nothing but clarifying theory, as opposed to trying to actively scumhunt.

Post 85. Yes, clearly it is OH SO SCUMMY to, when someone misunderstands my reasons for voting someone, stop scumhunting for a whole post while I clarify myself.

I follow Yos2's meta line of reasoning in that anyone who shares similar suspects to me is thinking about the game from
the same perspective that I am. He called SensFan, just like I did above upon the reread. Similar to Yos's theory, scumread on McQueso for
questioning the SensFan vote. Not thinking about the game from a townie perspective. So is Zindaras #122 (and putting Llama as town? ugh).

BZZT. "X is Town because he agrees with my reads; Y and Z are Scum because they disagree with me" is so wrong I'm probably wasting my time by bothering to include it here.

- SensFan #294. He's STILL not scumhunting. When does he plan on starting?

Post 294. This is the second time in the same post where you've taken a post of mine building on/clarifying my previous stance(s) (stances you've ignored completely in your IIoA PBPA) and then called me scummy for only clarifying things and not doing anything else.

Just curious. How do you accuse me both of being scummy for not scumhunting, and then also call me scummy for being the first person on both of the major wagons?

Those things are not mutually exclusive. Being on wagons is not scumhunting.

I didn't give you any points for that though.

I'm pretty sure those things

are

mutually exclusive, actually. I clearly wasn't wagon-jumping, so unless you think I was literally randomly voting both times (as in rolling a die and voting solely based on that), which its pretty clear I wasn't, then I must have been looking at who I think the lynch is that best benefits the Town and voting based on that.

SensFan #655 - still active lurking and pretending like he's scumhunting.

Post 655. 21 posts of mine in between this one and the last one you selectively chose to call me an active lurker for. Don't worry, you didn't miss much in that span. Oh, except for the part where Poro and I both simultaneously completely create the case on Furc and start the wagon on him.

Also a shameless post to avoid prod -- will resume read soon.

Though offhand Toon Fighter's last post looks awful and SensFan looks just as bad for not calling him on it (despite being the very next post)

Is this the part where I say you've done nothing all game but active lurk, based on this post alone? Or do I need to also only quote this post of yours and make it look like it's representative of all of your posts?
Sarcasm aside, here's more of the godawful "X is Scum for disagreeing with me" logic.

Not going to bother anymore with explaining slight differences in points. It will come down to "I like this person's
reads" and "this person isn't even trying" with the +1/-1's, so only going to point out interesting things.

This becomes relevant in a minute.

(FYI SensFan #818 - if Surye flipped scum, this would heavily implicate you)

Post 818. As mentioned before, this is complete garbage. "Even though X has already flipped Town, I'll go out of my way now to mention that it would make you look really bad if X had flipped Scum instead". What the fuck? This is so dumb I don't even want to waste my time pointing out how dumb it is. Oh, and by the way, if vez flipped "HezLucky Cult Recruit", it would heavily implicate you. Just FYI.

As mentioned earlier, SensFan really should've voted for TF's crap #927. He didn't. I'm happy with a lynch on either
one of these two.

More of the "He's Scum for disagreeing with me" logic that we all love so much.

I'm not saying the ReaperCharlie wagon is inherently bad, as he might be scum (I don't know because he WON'T POST
ANYTHING) but the people on that wagon have no busiuenss being on that wagon. SensFan as #2 and Porochaz as #3 reek
of scum. How can you guys not have better targets at this point in the game?

Let's see, I'll start off by pointing out that active lurking is one of the more reliable scumtells, and so it's flawed to imply that it's a weak tell and that I should have something stronger. But I think more important here is that Hez has been calling me Scum all game long (and later put her vote on me) when the

ONLY

two points she's ever raised against me are that I'm active lurking and that I disagree with her. Oops.

^^^ Blatant misrepresentation of the point. You did not receive any points for the FYI. It was simply a thought that had crossed my mind.

*points to above "I'm not going to bother explaining what people get points for anymore" quote*

You STILL have not done any scumhunting whatsoever. I would like to see where this contradiction of yours occurs.

Part A) If you bothered to read any of my posts, you'd see the scumhunting for yourself. Part B) As earlier, you called me Scum earlier for both active lurking and being the leading vote on both of the major wagons of the time. That literally does not compute.

Why not do it now? My main argument against you is that you post nothing but fluff, are actively lurking and seem to refuse to engage in any kind of scumhunting whatsoever, combined with your questionable votes.

Again, if you bothered to read my posts, you'd see that in the 12 hours previous to this post, I had twice mentioned my lack of computer for the weekend.

The only way I could really see you "countering" my argument is by actual scumhunting, in which case I look forward to it.

Sorry to not point this out a couple days ago, but you can always just click "Display posts by user: SensFan" to see that.

[SensFan]

Question for furc folk: So suddenly it's ok to forget all about yesterday? No one even mentions him at all anymore. He had scummy patterns, and I think there's a possibility that he could be scum with ABR. Yet no one on the furc wagon comments on this at all? Something's not right there.

Furc was very likely active lurking, until someone called him on it.
RC has admitted to continued active lurking, even after being called on it.

Thus, for the time being, RC is higher on my priority list.

[SensFan]

You really need to get your head out of your goddamn ass. You're not God's gift to Mafia, and you definitely can't just assume that anyone disagrees with you is Scum. Sorry to disappoint you.

And for the last fucking time, I can't be both STARTING MULTIPLE WAGONS and not scumhunting. You're giving me those magic fairy points for both, and it makes no sense. (Oh wait, I don't know the Hez Fairy Dudt Code, so I shouldn't misrepresent you by talking about that.) (And crap, disagreeing with you will get me even more of the Pixie Dust Points. I wonder how many points not reading a single post of yours from now on is worth...)

[SensFan]

Should I just assume that Hez is the only one drinking the SensScum kool-aid? I'm happy to continue ripping his posts apart and pointing out the massive hypocrisy and holes in them, but at this point I'm wondering if anyone else is giving his points validity.

[SensFan]

I would hazard a guess that the answers are, respectively, Montreal and because the Scum haven't realized he's obvtown.

[SensFan]

Should I just assume that Hez is the only one drinking the SensScum kool-aid? I'm happy to continue ripping his posts apart and pointing out the massive hypocrisy and holes in them, but at this point I'm wondering if anyone else is giving his points validity.

Do you think Hez is dumb or scum? Reading your posts, all you seem to be doing is countering his points, not assessing his alignment.

Dumb. His attacks against people are a complete farce, but I'm pretty sure he's Town in spite of it. The hypocrisy of his points are coming off as genuine mistakes, as opposed to calculated doubletalking.

[SensFan]

Llama, when you get the chance, can you at least give some sort of response to my post about your play D1?

[SensFan]

Still waiting for something of value from RC. And by RC, I specifically mean RC; I don't care how much his slot comes out with, I'm not moving my vote until he personally stops active lurking and gives his own personal analysis that he's been promising since he replaced in.
For those curious about such things, RC has 43 posts on-site since the MoS post announcing the hydra, 23 of which are in threads other than Mafia games. Doesn't strike me as someone who is unable to play a slot on his own.

[SensFan]

Still waiting for something of value from RC. And by RC, I specifically mean RC; I don't care how much his slot comes out with, I'm not moving my vote until he personally stops active lurking and gives his own personal analysis that he's been promising since he replaced in.
For those curious about such things, RC has 43 posts on-site since the MoS post announcing the hydra, 23 of which are in threads other than Mafia games. Doesn't strike me as someone who is unable to play a slot on his own.

Nice cop-out vote: Voting a lurker until he stops lurking.


Yeaaahhhh SensFan is scum.

Nice cop-out: Not explaining how you racked up 43 posts in 26 hours after claiming you are too busy to play in a game by yourself and need a backup to come bail you out.

Besides, I lynch lurkers on principle; nothing interesting to see there.

[SensFan]

You have 41 on-site posts in the last 24 hours, and 22 posts in this thread since replacing in. There isn't a shred of reasoning for why you have absolutely refused to give the slightest bit of anything useful, instead choosing to have a partner come in and bail your ass out while you continue to post without contributing.

On D2, I'll lynch a lurker like you over someone claiming Scum every time.

[SensFan]

Jesus, people. RC is posting almost 2 posts per hour on-site and has over 20 posts in this game, INCLUDING A FUCKING HAMMER! Why is everyone so hellbent on letting him keep sliding through and/or letting his 'Phone a Friend' lifeline come in and bail his ass out?

[SensFan]

Nope.

But I clearly explained why I was waiting until today.

Get off my nuts.

Oh, right.

Well, then, just so everyone in this game knows, I've decided to wait until I see ABR's flip (if and when it comes) to talk about my reads after that, since I think it will be good to just read the game after I know if I should just sheep his views. That's the cool thing to do, right?

In the meantime,

Unvote; Vote: RC

Ok, so you say you are waiting for ABR to flip to give your reads. You also say you are going to sheep him, yet he is now voting TF. Sup?

Please, please,

please

tell me you're joking.

[SensFan]

I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever talked about number of factions; it's a fool's game until we get s lot more info.

By the way, when you specify that you've been told your alignment, are you implying that you know nothing about your role beyond that?

[SensFan]

I think it's incredibly relevant if you're claiming that you're posting in-thread and discussing the game outside of it with RC if you don't know every single part of your role. Since, y'know, then you wouldn't be a player in the game, having not been told your role.

[SensFan]

Doing a powerful re-read on my other game. Once that one's done, this one will get the same treatment.

You can't reread a game that you've never read in the first place. Especially when the 'reread' in question probably consists of just asking your friend (who you conveniently didn't even bother telling your role to) for his thoughts.

[SensFan]

IS 1237/8- Sorry, but your recent posts have really been you calling ABR scum due to his connection to RC, thus RC fliping scum would cement ABR being scum. You obviously have other reasons for voting RC, but I was pointing out that your motivation recently seems to get ABR lynched through his connection to RC.

SensFan- You voted furcolow up until the end of the day. Do you no longer find furcolow scummy? How is this slot scummier than furcolow?

1) Furc stopped active lurking when called on it
2) RC still hasn't shown me any reason to believe he's read a single post after page 4
3) RC decided to wimp out and Phone a Friend, rather than defend himself
4) You claimed that you were talking about the game with RC and posting in the thread while you had not received a role, and so weren't a player in the game; I don't think either of you would be dumb enough to think that's a good idea by any stretch of the imagination

I've already answered that exact question, by the way. Is there some clause in your Scum PM that stops anyone in your slot from reading the damn game?

[SensFan]

I don't believe for a second that either of you would have a conversation about the game, but that he wod tell you his alignment and not just add on the actual role. Please give me a single circumstance where it makes sense for him to tell you the alignment of the slot but not spend an extra 5 seconds just telling you the full role.

[SensFan]

Please give me a single circumstance where it makes sense for him to tell you the alignment of the slot but not spend an extra 5 seconds just telling you the full role.

Hint: They all end with "he wanted me to give my thoughts before I knew who my scumbuddies were".

[SensFan]

Lol. Busted. You say that you would consider it cheating to post without knowing your scumpartner, but earlier you claimed that you posted without even knowing your damn role.

[SensFan]

I'm aware of the distinction. But I have a hard time understanding why you would object to posting without some key parts of information, but not others. For instance, "We're a Cop and Yos is Scum" or "We're Masons with Sens, who is confirmed" both seem like pretty important things to know, especially for someone who thinks it's cheating to post without knowing his scumpartners.
Combined with the reasons I mentioned earlier, this is even more evidence that there's something really fishy going on in the entire 'RC didn't tell me our role yet' subplot.

[SensFan]

Really not liking LF's last post. But I won't explain why so that I don't get vigged for forcing the game and

literally

stopping anyone else from posting.

[SensFan]

Sigh. You're a Vig, ABR. Go along and help us lynch RC today, then tonight you can kill whoever the hell you want, and then brag tomorrow that you were right about RC if he flips Town. Deal?

[SensFan]

BMQ: Frankly, I don't really care how ABR decides on his shots, as long as he's shooting every Night.

ABR: The RC wagon started as Policy (for me, at least), but I think you should be able to read up on some of the later posts in the wagon to see the actual case on him. Besides, I'm a bit surprised to see you calling a PL "lazy."

[SensFan]

The guy hasn't posted any content, don't lie to me and say that you saw him scumslip. He's just a douche that doesn't participate in discussion, and everyone piles their vote on him for an easy lynch.

RC and Batt have both flat-out lied in this thread in their attempts to provide reasons for their continued lurking.

[SensFan]

Sigh. You're a Vig, ABR. Go along and help us lynch RC today, then tonight you can kill whoever the hell you want, and then brag tomorrow that you were right about RC if he flips Town. Deal?

This is such a horrible post I can't believe I'd find worse.

BMQ: Frankly, I don't really care how ABR decides on his shots, as long as he's shooting every Night.

But I did.

Meh. I know ABR has an above-average scumdar. And I also know that I wouldn't be able to change his mind about his Vig shots even if I wanted to. So really, as long as he's shooting every Night, I'm happier with that arrangement than I would be with an unknown Vig.

[SensFan]

He's confirmed for the time being, unless someone counterclaims the Vezok kill, IS.

[SensFan]

Sensfan 1360- 1) I have not lied. 2) How is it lurking if we are posting every day (on the fact you are saying continued lurking)?

1) Sorry bud. I haven't forgotten about the "RC and I decided that I would start playing before he even told me our role" fiasco.
2) Again, a hydra doesn't work if neither player bothers to read the thread. My case against your slot has never had anything to do with passive lurking (not posting). You've both been posting an inane amount considering neither of you have said literally anything of consequence.

[SensFan]

Gonna be able to catch up

at least

half the game tomorrow.

You mean that by page 57, you're finally going to read page 29? Oh wow, how could we possibly lynch someone who's read page 29 before the thread even gets to page 58?

You are perfectly free to lynch me AFTER I read the thread and give my reads. There is plenty of time (5 days) until the June 12 deadline.

Anyone who tries to lynch me BEFORE that is scum, and likely scared of what I might dig up about them on a re-read.

Yes, clearly I'm trying to lynch you because I'm Scum and I'm

terrified

that the 30th time you say you're going to read past page 4, you actually mean it. At this point, you're going to be lynched anyways, so you're better off not posting anything to avoid giving away your scumbuddies - and judging by your play, you realized that a long time ago.

Besides, it helps if you could go one whole post without lying. You managed to post 25 times on Saturday and Sunday. So much for not having any time to read or talk about this game, because of being "gone over the entire weekend".

[SensFan]

There is no reason for people to be voting on side wagons at this point. Lynch the CharlieScumTroll and let's move into the night phase so that Albert and his scumbuddies can kill me.

This post (and pretty much all of SensFan's posts) are dripping with scum.

This post (and

pretty much

all of RC's posts) aren't dripping with content.

[SensFan]

RC - You use the prefix 're' a ton for someone who hasn't read the game.

Hez - You'd be a much better player if you didn't start every post under the assumption that everyone has a perfect scumdar

[SensFan]

RC - You use the prefix 're' a ton for someone who hasn't read the game.

...Have I even said that once this game? Hint: No.

(obvious SensFanscum-getting-antsy-and-looking-for-other-reasons-to-help-people-suspect-RC is obvious)

I count 5 instances of you using the word re-read about yourself from skimming your iso on my phone. If I had access to tabbed browsing or ctrl-f, I'd quote them and/or give a more accurate count.

Stop lying, scumbag.

[SensFan]

If you expect me to read that Batt, post it without spoilers.

[SensFan]

If you expect me to read that Batt, post it without spoilers.

Wow. Stop being so lazy, rofl. If you

aren't

scum (which I highly doubt), then you're the epitome of anti-town.

As I've said COUNTLESS times, I'm access Scum right now from my fucking phone. So don't expect me to quote the post and then try and make sense of a quotewall with a bunch of tags thrown in when it's much simpler for your Phone a Friend to just not waste everyones time by posting in goddamn spoilers you useless fucking price of trash.

[SensFan]

As per MoS' post against personal attacks, this is my last post until RC is lynched. See you guys tomorrow.

[SensFan]

No. You can not quote either real or fabricated Mod supplied info. So his message does not hold any greater value just because he was modkilled.

Are you retarded? On D1 we had someone claim they received an anon. message. On D2, we had someone claim they received an anon. message and then flipped Town. Why the hell would you assume that the claimed message might be fabricated?

[SensFan]

Vote: Furc

Going back to where I was D1.

[SensFan]

Just got back from Goofbash, will catch up later.

[SensFan]

Platant prod response. Been busy the last few days and haven't been on Scum. Will catch up today.

[SensFan]

So, I agree with Zindaras' response that we basically just have to lynch KK today. If the game ever reaches LyLo, then we lose if KK is still alive, so lynching him doesn't actually cost us a lynch. Not going to put a vote on KK until after his 'scumhunting' post, because I don't want any shenanigans like what happened yesterday, but consider my vote there for the purposes of people wanting him dead.

[SensFan]

Note that that makes L-2. No one else vote KK, please.

[SensFan]

I explained a few posts ago. I don't want another self-hammer.

[SensFan]

The problem being that I don't want another scum self-hammer to stifle discussion.

[SensFan]

Dont want to vote KK because I feel like this game is not in favor for town. If what KK is saying is true, however unlikely, then I would prefer to risk it in hopes of getting him on our side. I realize this puts me in prime lynching position should KK get lynched and flip mafia but I can't support his lynch.

Which part of "KK counts as a part of every single Mafia faction if he is telling the truth" did you not understand?

[SensFan]

....

What?

He claimed Survivor.
Let's say we end up in LyLo with relation to Mafia A. Then Mafia A + KK lynch someone not in Mafia A. Town loses.
Let's say we end up in LyLo with relation to Mafia B. Then Mafia B + KK lynch someone not in Mafia B. Town loses.
Let's say we end up in LyLo with relation to the SK. Then the SK + KK lynch someone not the SK. Town loses.

[SensFan]

But... why would survivor pick anti-town over town? The point is that he can pick between factions.

Because he doesn't know who the Scum are. He just has to vote someone, and then the Scum can lynch at will.

[SensFan]

Alternatively, because in a 2:2:1 LyLo endgame (for instance), the Scum can threaten to kill him at Night if he lynches one of them.

[SensFan]

But... scum wasting a kill on survivor would not be best play. Mafia would prefer to keep survivor alive to help them or to waste a lynch with the town. I am not saying that it is in the best interest of the town to keep a third party alive, but when we might be outnumber already, we have to hope for lynching an actual mafia member and that the survivor will side with town.

If it's LyLo, Scum can claim. And then tell KK to either vote with them, or die and lose.

[SensFan]

I disagree. We have a vig alive plus two competing factions. One can not claim without risk of losing and the survivor would be a wasted kill with a vig breathing down their neck. The survivor is in a good position so long as town doesn't give up on scum hunting and just lynch the easiest target.

2 Mafia A alive.
2 Town alive.
1 Survivor alive.

Mafia As claim. If the Survivor votes Town with them, Survivor wins.
If the Survivor votes one of them with Town, Survivor gets shot, Survivor loses.

How is it so fucking hard for you to see that the Survivor picks Door Number One?

[SensFan]

We still stand the chance of scum hitting each other. Question: What does lylo mean? Could I have a rephrase of what Sens is saying? Does this mean that leaving KK alive means a sure town loss? Or vise versa, and we have to hit scum today? I am leaning more towards thinking KK would be a good choice whether he is actually scum, or really is the survivor, based on this... but I need some clarification, preferably from *at least* two players.

If what Sens is saying is true, then pointing it out gives him pretty ultimate town points from me.

I'm saying that lynching KK is like lynching 1 member of every single Mafia/SK faction, even if he is telling the truth.
Let's say we don't lynch him, and we end up in a position with 2 Town, 2 Scum A, and 1 Survivor alive. In that case, we are in LyLo - we have to lynch correctly or we lose. So then the Survivor and the Scum will vote together and they will both win. So we actually lose if we enter LyLo. Therefore, lynching him today will let us actually have one last chance in LyLo, and so it's a free lynch.

[SensFan]

But... Mafia would lose if they killed survivor... Mafia risks the chance of losing by outing themselves so that survivor can join with them. Whatever, I am not lynching the third party member over scum.

Are you just dumb? Mafia will WIN THE GAME if they claim and the Survivor votes with them. If the Survivor doesn't vote with them, he will LOSE THE GAME.

[SensFan]

but his win condition isn't set for him to win with mafia. He wants to just stay alive.

Do you ever read what anyone posts, or just sort of assume you know what it says and then respond?

[SensFan]

Also, SensFan, seriously, don't be so harsh on the guy.

My apologies. I was in a pissy mood, and annoyed that I had explained it several times.

[SensFan]

I think we're at the point where we need to just lynch KK and move on to the next day.

[SensFan]

I think my vote's already on him, but just in case,

Unvote, Vote: KK

[SensFan]

No, what I think reflects poorly on you is your vote for Death Ninja when he was up against Toon Fighter, and your early vote for DeathNote at the start of the next day (first much more than last).

I still stand by my DeathNinja vote. His play was terrible and I honestly thought he was scum. If you think that makes me look scummy, so be it. I'll live with that.

Not sure if I'm in the same boat as BMQ regarding the Ninja v Toon scenario, but I agree with the above 100%.

[SensFan]

Well, good, because it does. If you're still alive and I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll have to go over your play and reasoning, but it's a simple fact for now.

In case it wasn't clear, I meant I was agreeing with what BMQ said.

[SensFan]

Well, if you agreed with all he said (which I took it for) I assume that you also mirror his feelings that you'll live with the fact that it'll make you look scummier.

Yep. I mean, I know that it looks bad from a wagon analysis point of view, but even with the benefit of hindsight I'd do the same thing again.

[SensFan]

Albert, claim your kill.

[SensFan]

Refresh my memory; did you kill Hez?

[SensFan]

I think we should massclaim.

Popcorn. Who's up next?

[SensFan]

Interesting. I was under the impression that we were dealing with 3:3:1, not 4:4.

[SensFan]

Albert, were you at DGB's for that game of Jungle Republic we played at Goofbash where I fakeclaimed Mafia?

[SensFan]

Albert, were you at DGB's for that game of Jungle Republic we played at Goofbash where I fakeclaimed Mafia?

[SensFan]

I admit I don't have a perfect recollection of this game, but do we have an explanation yet for the 4th NK during one of the Nights?

[SensFan]

Also, Zindy, if we don't lynch you today, but do lynch Matrix Scum, will you agree to No Kill tonight?

[SensFan]

Also, Zindy, if we don't lynch you today, but do lynch Matrix Scum, will you agree to No Kill tonight?

There's no way Zindy actually agrees to that, despite whatever she says. Her claim definitively makes her either a Merovingian scum or an Agent scum.

That's my thought, and I think it means we have to lynch him. Otherwise, even if he's telling the truth and we lynch correctly today, we lose if they kill him and he kills Town.

[SensFan]

Did I miss in the spoilers if you account for Zindy being an SK?

[SensFan]

If we lynch Zindaras, the setup is 4-man scum teams, and he's the last of the Merovignans, even if I vig correctly we will all lose to the agents.

Correct.
But if he's telling the truth and we lynch an Agent Scum, then we still lose if he kills Town overnight.

[SensFan]

If he does that he loses as well.

If we lynch Agent Scum today, I'm assuming they're going to kill Zindaras tonight anyways.
Besides, even if has a bias towards Town vs Agents, there's no way for him to know for sure who the Agents are, so he could still misfire and hit Town.

[SensFan]

I still think we should massclaim today, by the way.

[SensFan]

Maybe it's just me, but something Zindy said makes me more likely to join the 'Hope he's lying and lynch him' camp. He said that part of his deal is a Happily Ever After if we get rid of all the Matrix; that doesn't work for Town. That makes the risk:reward of trusting you make no sense, since the

upside

is a draw.

[SensFan]

Maybe it's just me, but something Zindy said makes me more likely to join the 'Hope he's lying and lynch him' camp. He said that part of his deal is a Happily Ever After if we get rid of all the Matrix; that doesn't work for Town. That makes the risk:reward of trusting you make no sense, since the

upside

is a draw.

Beyond the fact that I've always considered Happily Ever After a win for both (because people overcame their respective differences and huggled and snuggled for all of eternity), I'd also suggest that it would up your chances. Regardless of the setup, Town is practically guaranteed to lose.

My offer was an offer, and nothing more. If you wish to take your chances, that's fine by me. I am more than willing to simply play this out.

I'm not sure how you get that "Town is practically guaranteed to lose" in a 3:3:1 endgame with a Vig.

[SensFan]

And I'm still befuddled as to the total lack of behavioural analysis. Fact is, I have much more of an incentive to do this as Merovingian than as Matrix. I was not on the block.

But as Merovingian, you would know that you have a greater incentive to do this as Matrix, and so the wine is clearly in front of me.

[SensFan]

I'm really uncomfortable with a plan that involves vigging Zindy tonight, because it sets up Town to get blown out even if he's telling the truth, as long as he Hides.

[SensFan]

Actually, those numbers are a bit off because all the kills happen simultaneously, so M and A might cross-kill? But that's unlikely, and only results in us getting a lynch or lose scenario, I think.

Exactly.

At this point, I think we do have to cross our fingers and just hope that Zind is gambitting. Ironically, if Zind is telling the truth about being M, but added on the Commute in an effort to not be killed tonight, then it may have cost him his chance.

Vote: Zind

[SensFan]

Albert makes a good point.

Unvote

[SensFan]

Sorry... I would post more but I just dont see town winning. I think this is a scum vs scum game right now.

Reread the game and start posting in the next week, or I'll lynch you just to make damn sure you lose the game if you're Town.

[SensFan]

Lol cause thats motivation

You know that as Town, being lynched ends the game and you lose.
You know that if you continue to refuse to contribute, you will be lynched.
Therefore, I have to assume that if you refuse to contribute, it's because you know that you being lynched won't cause you to lose.

[SensFan]

Don't be silly. Being stuck with me means we're in a PD. Being stuck with Albert means a standard endgame. It's obvious which one Matrix will prefer. And, my dear dear Brian, regardless of what happens, you cannot afford to lynch me today or have Albert vig me the coming night. That's what matters for me. I'm gambling on being in a PD tomorrow, at which point I can still win.

Note that a PD is very much outside of the best interests of the Town.

[SensFan]

Tots VT

Popcorn. Who's next?

[SensFan]

Let me finish my read before you agree on who to lynch, k? I promise I'm Town, Albert, and I wouldn't lie to you.

[SensFan]

Oh. Cool, then.

Vote: Porochaz.

[SensFan]

Make sure you do your damn homework. If you fuck this up by either shooting when you shouldn't or not shooting when you should based on the flip of Poro, I swear I will take a bus to Montreal and track your ass down.

[SensFan]

Can't you killing lose us the game if we lynch Agent today, but you/Zind/Agents all kill Town overnight?

[SensFan]

kk.

[SensFan]

If the only possibility is that its 3-3-1 then why the hell are you voting me and NOT the confirmed scum?

Did you read his post? He talked about the third (and very realistic) possibility, other than 3-3-1 and 4-4-1.

[SensFan]

ABR, you better just shoot DeathNote tonight. Otherwise I'm going to be voting him tomorrow on policy.

[SensFan]

Bah!

[SensFan]

Well done Kison, you deserved the win.