Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Porochaz]

confirm

[Porochaz]

...and now the reason becomes clear why I call him Deidre.

I hate letting him get away with shit like this. Beyond the vast quantity of large games he is in, he is playing against the spirit of the game and arguably against his wincon and he

always

does it and its the second reason I hate playing with him.
@Llama

Also Id rather policy lynch vezok than ani any day of the week. Ani has some usefulness about him.

Also your second paragraph is shit. Its easy to adapt your normal playstyle to that when you are scum especially if your made aware of it.

[Porochaz]

Did Vez seriously just claim VT in pregame?

Can we speedlynch him before the game starts?

Yos, Why are you suprised by this

[Porochaz]

@Poro - No. Ani is the single worst player that is still active on the site, and if he is not policy lynched I will replace out of any game that has him in it. I dislike playing with him to that great of an extent. The only player who is worse then him is Nat, other then that I would rather play with any player past or present that I can think of.

Also vezok kinda knows my VT tell, but he also knows thats not how its applied. He basically has just claimed VT, he plays like scum, we lynch him, he plays like town, we dont lynch him. Very simple.

Im not advocating a policy lynch as much as I want to. Also self metas can be changed, yadda yadda yadda.

Also I think we will have to agree to disagree on ani, I used to hate playing with him but I think he's getting better, he certainly wasn't the worst in succession.

[Porochaz]

Right it seems people are getting hooked up on "the book of mafia" and not actually playing it. Firstly, the way I read Yos's post that he was frustrated but didn't want a quicklynch. As Yos is a pretty decent player he knows suggesting a quicklynch is going to get him flak.

Deidre (Vezok) has played to his own playstyle. I dislike it but at least he isn't a power role because he has been known to claim or had a want to claim in those instances as well. He is either scum or VT, I recommend we keep playing as normal without giving him special compensation or disadvantage.

People hitting my scumdar at the moment: Agar. Im pretty confident he has played with Deidre before and it's not that big a jump to go "I claim day 1 as town, I should claim a townie role now!" To say "Hes town" and immediately rule him out is not good.
DeathNote. For the opposite, the reasons given are not good.

[Porochaz]

Yeah, there isn't much room for movement in regards to his claim. Apart from Sens post above, lets not give him too much credit, he may not be definitely town but he wouldn't be smart enough to claim other than when he is scum or vt. Also if he was a power role, it would just add another layer of nonsensicalness to the claim in the first place.

[Porochaz]

I have no idea what went on in the last few posts.

[Porochaz]

Jesus christ, let's all stop being retarded for a second. Vezok claimed VT. If he was scum or anti-town of any flavor, he would have had some ridiculous unbelievably retarded claim. It's how he rolls. He is not smart enough to manipulate this. Move your votes onto someone who deserves to be wagonned into oblivion, like DN or Surye or Lain.

Totally disagree, I don't think he would be able to think of something totally retarded especially with nothing preceding it.

Also by lynching vezok we are either going to lynch an anti town faction or a vt leaving any PR in tact and on top of the that he is a really annoying player and I'm fairly confident even with a vezok vt town lynch, it will actually be a good thing for town further down the line. See succession for proof.

Now where is Frank in all of this.

[Porochaz]

Zindy, I suggest you read through the game I linked, where you will find me and Deidre had roughly this same argument and we both just got more frustrated and annoyed until he quit. He simply doesn't understand how to play the game and I wouldn't try and waste your breath otherwise.

Vezok, do you feel towns chances have winning have improved since your vt claim?

[Porochaz]

My win condition says I win if all the threats to the town are dead.

In order to survive I have to kill all the scums so they can't kill me.
If I survive till the end the odds of town winning are bigger.

Call my surviving a second goal but nearly any role I would have I have to survive.

Im going back on what I just said to Zindy because this is stupid.

VEZOK PLEASE READ!!!

This is an imaginary set up.

There are 20 players. 4 scum and 4 power roles.

You claim VT post no 1.

There are now 19 unclaimed players. 4 scum, 4 power roles and 1 vanilla town.

Before it was 4/20 so with a vanilla town lynch they have a 4/15 chance of hitting a power role (- the 4 scum and one lynchee) thats a 26.6% of hitting a power role

Now it is a 4/19, another vt lynch they have a 4/14 chance of hitting a power role, that's 28.6%

and the percentages between the two keep getting greater as the game goes on. Its the same situation if a power role or scum is lynched (though not the same percentage)

Put it this way lets say in end game, its night. There is what is presumed to be a protective role left. There is you and there is one scum left. Scum know exactly who to kill to win. They know now to avoid you. As a vanilla town you want to be protective of your power roles. By claiming you are doing the exact opposite and actually damaging the towns chances of winning. Ok so you might be alive till endgame but you've lost.

One of the most important lessons that any player has to learn is that this is in a weird way a team game. Even if that means you have to die to win the game overall.

[Porochaz]

Hi guys.

A few posts caught my attention.

LlamaFluff #78 - His response to DeathNote irritates me. Specifically, the quote "So you want a policy lynch of
vezok, but you want to draw it out?". First of all, that's REALLY obvious - he wants to lynch someone (for whatever
reason) but wants the town to have the chance to discuss for future days. Regardless of DeathNote's alignment, that
logic makes perfect sense. LlamaFluff's response, to that, (and his post #78 in general) seems like an attempt to
ask leading questions to accuse people of scum. This is not inherently scummy, if your leading questions make sense,
but for a player as experienced as Llama to target DeathNote so explicitly with that statement (one that makes no
sense from a mafia theory perspective) just screams of a good player trying to exert his influence to get what he
wants, and in this case, Llama is scum and is frivously pushing for any lynch he can find. (I make no statement on
DN's alignment, but

FOS: LlamaFluff

) .. that was originally a vote, but then I read Llama #97 and so I feel
a bit better about this.

If you are going to lynch a player because of only one thing everyone will come and say: " Vezok is vanilla. Let's lynch him. Vote him." You won't get any wagon analysis or stuff like that. Basically you wasted a day , but not. DN wants to drag the day. What good can it come for dragging the day? Nobody will come with other reasons, townies will get bored and stuff like that.

Also everyone knows that short days favor scum and not town. If he comes here and says let's make a loooooonnnngg day people will think that is the town mentality and won't try to lynch him.

Get my point?

Actually, can I put a stop to this "If you lynch vezok, you get no wagon analysis" bullcrap. Because 1. you do. and 2. Wagon analysis isn't everything and actually we have already gotten quite a lot of information about players today.

In fact this post is really scummy, and has actually swung you to the other side of my scumometer. We can still and have done got useful information today even if we lynch you. People make stupid mistakes all the time and peoples reactions to this wagon or reactions to reactions. Its not just you we are analysing here and I have at least a vague view on pretty much all the players who have posted beyond confirmation.

Also apart from your last paragraph being A. From that useless book "The Big Ol' Book of Scum" B. being WIFOMilicious .it's again something that just came out a cows arse. I have no reason to believe the length of days affects anything, especially day 1 and I would invite you to prove me wrong.

[Porochaz]

MBL is in this game? Oh awesome, I enjoyed playing with him last time. Although I played pretty damn terribly.

Also

note to everyone, I have exams on the 11th and the 20th so I will be doing my best to avoid mafiascum from the 8th to the 11th and the 16th to the 20th (Its a bigger, more important exam)

[Porochaz]

My win condition says I win if all the threats to the town are dead.

That's not what mine says.

Vote: Vezok

Man is he a bad player... it's not even really close.

Give Frank a chance...

[Porochaz]

vote amrun

do something original, something that others people haven't done. Maybe you could go into detail about the TF case as its notoriously thin atm. Also you havent made a post I like thus far.

[Porochaz]

ABR's answer was not good.

[Porochaz]

I think lynching Vez D1 is pretty much a no-tell, and in further thought, this wagon is not helpful either, which as I've been saying means no information.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU&NR=1

[Porochaz]

Jesus Christ are people just ignoring me in this game.

[Porochaz]

Quadruple post coming up guys.

"Let's move to another wagon for information, get them to claim, and then come back to the guy we already know we want to lynch and already claimed Vanilla" is worse.

Why?

Please tell me you do actually see the problem with that statement. Please.

I don't deny there is an issue with that situation, my problem is that I see a problem in both situations, and I'm trying to figure out what the best answer is.

• I believe VezTown really messed up, and hurt town with his action and that's unfortunate. However every town
  is
  an important number.
  
• I believe VezScum is using basic wifom to cause confusion and arguing in a way that is not helpful to scum hunting.
  
• I think lynching Vez D1 is pretty much a no-tell, and in further thought, this wagon is not helpful either, which as I've been saying means no information.
  
• The odds of VezTown vs VezScum is what I think dictates whether it is in towns best interest for an early lynch. I have not fully assessed that, partially because of the inherent problem with analyzing what is essentially a wifom.
  
• Sensfan is right, if we leave the Vez wagon for someone else, we can't have an intention of going back, as a spineless wagon is just as useless. I did not think that through.

So given my thoughts above, what does someone think of this plan (thought of it while driving home, may need some help):

• Forget Vez wagon as ultimately useless for D1.
  
• Cop investigates Vez night 1. The nice thing about this is if we only have an alignment cop, that is all we need.
  
• If Vez is clean, we can backburner him, and not worry about addressing issues of action tampering, since we have no real claims yet.
  
• If Vez comes up dirty, we have D2 lynch, save risking a power role, and give slight incentive to kill Vez N1 as it would prevent a mislynch D2. In this case we'd need to then begin protecting the cop.

Thoughts?

OH God. Directing the cop, setting up lynches, doesn't care about the wagon at all. Just wants my wagon to finish in a lynch.

unvote
vote Surye

@Yos: Scum now have better chances of killing a PR. So what? Mafia is first based on behavioral analysis, then night actions.

What do you think is better: In 3 man LyLo :

1

We have on doctor alive, one townie and one scum. YAY. One unconfirmed PR that does nothing.

2

We have one townie who is pretty much confirmed because of the way he played( lead the lynching wagons on scum, or something like that), one townie and one scum.

There is one confirmed and tow unconfirmed. Way better than case 1.

"Hey easy wagon, Im going to jump on you"

2 Is where I have the real problem though. You aren't going to be leading any lynching wagons on scum lets face it. Your going to fail. Also if we have one doctor alive, you and scum then we lose because scum kill the obv doc. Also I dont trust you to EVER

EVER

make the right decision in lylo. You make out that your gods gift to mafia when you blatantly proved that false in the first goddamn post of the game.

[Porochaz]

My win condition says I win if all the threats to the town are dead.

In order to survive I have to kill all the scums so they can't kill me.
If I survive till the end the odds of town winning are bigger.

Call my surviving a second goal but nearly any role I would have I have to survive.

Im going back on what I just said to Zindy because this is stupid.

VEZOK PLEASE READ!!!

This is an imaginary set up.

There are 20 players. 4 scum and 4 power roles.

You claim VT post no 1.

There are now 19 unclaimed players. 4 scum, 4 power roles and 1 vanilla town.

Before it was 4/20 so with a vanilla town lynch they have a 4/15 chance of hitting a power role (- the 4 scum and one lynchee) thats a 26.6% of hitting a power role

Now it is a 4/19, another vt lynch they have a 4/14 chance of hitting a power role, that's 28.6%

and the percentages between the two keep getting greater as the game goes on. Its the same situation if a power role or scum is lynched (though not the same percentage)

Put it this way lets say in end game, its night. There is what is presumed to be a protective role left. There is you and there is one scum left. Scum know exactly who to kill to win. They know now to avoid you. As a vanilla town you want to be protective of your power roles. By claiming you are doing the exact opposite and actually damaging the towns chances of winning. Ok so you might be alive till endgame but you've lost.

One of the most important lessons that any player has to learn is that this is in a weird way a team game. Even if that means you have to die to win the game overall.

quote="Porochaz"]

Hi guys.

A few posts caught my attention.

LlamaFluff #78 - His response to DeathNote irritates me. Specifically, the quote "So you want a policy lynch of
vezok, but you want to draw it out?". First of all, that's REALLY obvious - he wants to lynch someone (for whatever
reason) but wants the town to have the chance to discuss for future days. Regardless of DeathNote's alignment, that
logic makes perfect sense. LlamaFluff's response, to that, (and his post #78 in general) seems like an attempt to
ask leading questions to accuse people of scum. This is not inherently scummy, if your leading questions make sense,
but for a player as experienced as Llama to target DeathNote so explicitly with that statement (one that makes no
sense from a mafia theory perspective) just screams of a good player trying to exert his influence to get what he
wants, and in this case, Llama is scum and is frivously pushing for any lynch he can find. (I make no statement on
DN's alignment, but

FOS: LlamaFluff

) .. that was originally a vote, but then I read Llama #97 and so I feel
a bit better about this.

If you are going to lynch a player because of only one thing everyone will come and say: " Vezok is vanilla. Let's lynch him. Vote him." You won't get any wagon analysis or stuff like that. Basically you wasted a day , but not. DN wants to drag the day. What good can it come for dragging the day? Nobody will come with other reasons, townies will get bored and stuff like that.

Also everyone knows that short days favor scum and not town. If he comes here and says let's make a loooooonnnngg day people will think that is the town mentality and won't try to lynch him.

Get my point?

Actually, can I put a stop to this "If you lynch vezok, you get no wagon analysis" bullcrap. Because 1. you do. and 2. Wagon analysis isn't everything and actually we have already gotten quite a lot of information about players today.

In fact this post is really scummy, and has actually swung you to the other side of my scumometer. We can still and have done got useful information today even if we lynch you. People make stupid mistakes all the time and peoples reactions to this wagon or reactions to reactions. Its not just you we are analysing here and I have at least a vague view on pretty much all the players who have posted beyond confirmation.

Also apart from your last paragraph being A. From that useless book "The Big Ol' Book of Scum" B. being WIFOMilicious .it's again something that just came out a cows arse. I have no reason to believe the length of days affects anything, especially day 1 and I would invite you to prove me wrong.[/quote]

I want a response to BOTH of these.

[Porochaz]

mod can we get a round of prods?

[Porochaz]

I'm honestly kind of tired of the theory discussion. I agree with the round of prods. Want more content rather than theory. Differing theories are null tells and a waste of time.

Hi there, You failed to answer my question.

[Porochaz]

Im not saying your scum. Im saying your bad for town.

[Porochaz]

vote amrun

do something original, something that others people haven't done. Maybe you could go into detail about the TF case as its notoriously thin atm. Also you havent made a post I like thus far.

[Porochaz]

Vezok 220, response now!!! 3rd time!!!

also

mod can I get the quote tags fixed in 220

[Porochaz]

2% on the first day... it increases as you go on...

Ive had enough of this. He is blatantly going to be unhelpful to the town regardless of alignment (see rest of 244) and as others have said before a lynch on vezok who could either be vt or scum means we dont out any of the other power roles.

unvote vote vezok

In other news...

I hate that Frank hasn't said anything already, I find it weird that MBL hasn't and I still suspect Amrun, just because I have unvoted doesn't mean I don't want a response.

[Porochaz]

List of games I specifically avoided because of vezok:

Naruto Mafia: Chūnin Exams! (I read the new manga scans every week)
Square Enix Mafia Gaiden: The Outsiders (I love the theme)
World of Warcraft Mafia (Specifically asked Dram if they could deny vezok, they said no)
WWF Road to Wrestlemania (again)

These are just the games that I would have joined but saw his name and decided to pass. I can imagine that he is in a lot more than these.

I am tired. I want to play a game without vezok.

Not the reason why Im voting him but this.

[Porochaz]

Also of the three larges that where in signups I signed up only for the dram modded game. Patrick's game has only 3 signups and I don't want to join. Also you didn't join meta mafia.

Please stop and see the statistics I posted in "plea to mith" thread. I counted how many large games you signed up for in the past few months, remember.

[Porochaz]

Having said that, I need to move on for risk of not playing the game and actually being worse than vezok. Although I agree with him I'm starting to dislike ABR's posting for putting personal preference over playing the game. Vote for him if he is scummy, if not vote for someone else.

[Porochaz]

Do you want to read my posts in relation to my other posts? I'm not recommending him for lynch (at that point) and also your wrong (and right) I don't like vezok, but he is bad for town. Every game I have played with him he has been detrimental to town. Hell he already has been detrimental to town in this game, all it takes is a bit of research. Something you haven't done, so let me do it for you -

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14357 - claimed early tried to claim in first post. General nuisance all game, replaced out in a blaze of glory.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=15261 - replaced out after 2 posts of nothing, which actually is an improvement on other games (and actually I found out I call him valerie, sorry, you will now be known as valerie, not deidre)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14803 - claimed early insisting he caught scum. He hadn't Jailkeeper down the drain.

These are the games Ive played with him, there are others who wont play with him, there are a number of mods who wont let him into their games. There is a reason why I say what I do.

[Porochaz]

He also has cooties.

[Porochaz]

vez wagon is looking like cyber bullying.

Then you should really learn to read.

[Porochaz]

vote amrun

do something original, something that others people haven't done. Maybe you could go into detail about the TF case as its notoriously thin atm. Also you havent made a post I like thus far.

This is not a question. What response do you want from this? "Wah, you don't like meeeee why nooooottt?"

No. Sorry.

I'll make a case on TF when I am good and ready to. I want to see him and others post more before I do so. That is why I seconded your request for a round of prods and made a statement asking for less theory discussion and more content.

You complaining about vezok being in too many large games, for example, is not game content. You badgering me about answering a question you haven't asked is not original content either.

I don't dislike you. But your response does suggest you have fuck all on Toon Fighter, as I expected. I would have also liked at least some form of thing saying "that's not true these are the original things Ive done in this game" so you failed there... Oh and btw if you want less theory discussion and more content, erm... how about providing some?! So yeah wasn't really a question but there was opportunity there to make a post that was actually worth something, I left the door open pretty wide, but in the end resounding failure and you look fairly scummy as a result.

[Porochaz]

So Valerie... let me try and state my feelings concisely because I think I may have failed to do so in the past.

I could take the approach Albert is taking and noone would bat an eyelid, I've made no secret that I think Valerie is a detriment to the site overall and that as long as he doesn't play in any newbie games or learns to play the game properly he will remain in my bad graces. He is too arrogant to learn and thinks his way is correct despite people willing to help him realise why he may have gone wrong. He plays what is essentially a team game selfishly and as an individual. We have fought before in games. I wouldn't lead a policy lynch on him though, that's too easy, regardless of alignment. Im not sure Id even join one, in general I don't agree with policy lynches.

That said however, if I feel he is not going to be playing to towns best interests then I think it's important that he not be around for long. This is where I felt that - (italisized)

First post: They have a 2% better chance to hit a PR and that is not such a big thing. Also on another site I play games usually have only PR so I get frustrated here when I get vanilla and vanilla again and again.

Also I don't think PRs are such a big deal. And I don't care if they get killed

. Also read Cthulu.

Second post: In this case we did indeed get a lot of reactions out of players. I didn't say the only important thing is wagon analysis.
I said it is one of the most important things.

Now with anyone else that would be scummy in itself. If I quoted that with the highlighted bit, people would be all over that. Also if we are continuing with my case, the post I quoted had made up an imaginary situation where we didn't already have a wealth of information from players and we all actually policy lynched. Now that, combined with the lack of knowledge of the vanilla townie role pm combined with the fact he claimed vt in his first post thus potentially helping to expose power roles or at least narrowing the field (it's 2% the first day, yes but then it can go up pretty dramatically after that), is why I am now voting.

So I have actual "I think he is scum" reasons for voting him and that is why I am voting for him but for almost exactly the same reasons I believe that even if he is town, he will cause problems for town throughout this game and to aid town in winning then it's best if he is not.

That said, if Amrun keeps posting the way he is, I'll be voting him over vezok soon enough.

[Porochaz]

Im not being personal towards you, when this game is over I will harbour no ill-feelings towards you. However what Sens says is true, this is a game where we will argue about things and we will have disagreements. Things aren't always going to be nice and really my comment on a scale of 0 - 10 on a snark rating or a heated rating lets say barely hits 2, Sens not that much higher. This game is by all purposes aggressive, I'm not going to tone it down, I've never been asked to before by mod or player and I've never let it get out of control either.

I do get annoyed by people not reading though, which from my count you have done twice. It's the one thing that I hate more than anything (it says so on my old wiki page - http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... ldid=56901) (well in a roundabout way).

It's personal to vezok maybe but it has to be. Things in this game are going to get personal, like it or not. It happens in most games. I'm attacking Amrun at the moment and I am going to keep telling him he fails until he does something that doesn't.

[Porochaz]

You could have ISO'd me to find the damn post in the first place. I did ISO you, I also read it and went "hmm, no reasoning there" and tried to get you to expand. The others have posted no content, I have asked for prods, I also have noticed that both frank and MBL have posted multiple times since the game has started. Difference is what you have been doing isn't not posting content, it's repeating what others are doing. Which is what I'm finding scummy and on top of that, the only original thing you have done all game you have thus far refused to expand upon!

[Porochaz]

I do however understand that its finals week (its my last uni exams these next few weeks, as I've said multiple times) so I understand, but I do just want something a little bit more substantial than

VOTE: ToonFighter

His attack on DN came off as really scummy to me, like he'd hop on a wagon but if no one agreed with him he'd left room to back out.

It's just not enough for me, Im not looking for your full case just a quick summary.

[Porochaz]

"I find you all scummy for voting vezok, I hate this wagon, I HATE, HATE HATE it. But... as noone is going for my Surye wagon and I can't be assed looking elsewhere I'll hop on and berate you all for it later"

[Porochaz]

@Porochaz You haven't played with Internet Stranger before, have you?

Nope but from your post I can guess the type of poster he is.

[Porochaz]

mod can we get a replacement for Furcolow?

[Porochaz]

unvote vote furcolow

[Porochaz]

Not that it matters but it must have been less than 2 minutes seeing as he posted before CES posted

[Porochaz]

well before he noticed CES double posted.

[Porochaz]

Please give me examples of where I am hounding you?

[Porochaz]

3 days after games start I mention you lurking
5 days I reiterate that and that I didnt like it.
6 days I ask for your replacement as you havent posted.
and I also mentioned you when someone suggested I was only going after 1 low content poster to disprove them - note I also noted there that you had posted elsewhere in the interim.
Also I make a joke about your play in comparison to vezoks which might be unfair because you might have improved, so Im momentarily sorry for that.

(anyone else reminded of a bare naked ladies song?)

[Porochaz]

1. Was talk about valerie but I like that you thought that I thought you were the worst.
2. I mention above, hardly hounding considering the game has been going for

3days![/b]
3. I apologised for
4. Whilst we are doing this bolding thing

5 days since the game started.

Look if you can't post in games then you shouldn't be signing up for them. I want the full player base here and if you arent here I want you replaces ASAP.

[Porochaz]

Speaking of which, where is he now? He was here only 1 hour ago. Now that we are discussing his lurking habits, the scum bag should show up

TAH DAH!

[Porochaz]

You could have ISO'd me to find the damn post in the first place. I did ISO you, I also read it and went "hmm, no reasoning there" and tried to get you to expand. The others have posted no content, I have asked for prods

, I also have noticed that both frank and MBL have posted multiple times since the game has started.

Difference is what you have been doing isn't not posting content, it's repeating what others are doing. Which is what I'm finding scummy and on top of that, the only original thing you have done all game you have thus far refused to expand upon!

I had not "posted multiple times since the game had started" as of the bottom of page 12 when you posted this
I had confirmed, then I promised to read the over a dozen pages that I had missed out on last night. I got around to it today, which I am doing right now. This is a blatant lie.

In other threads.

mod can we get a replacement for Furcolow?

you havent been hounding me?
funny

I think after almost a week of not posting I am allowed to request your replacement. You know, it's not hounding when you haven't done anything in the first place! Anyway explained this all already and I think its perfectly fair to say, you didn't post. Im allowed to bring that up. I am certainly allowed to bring that up if you post straight after the first vote against youand the fact you posted multiple times on May the 2nd, just not in this thread!

I have read the entire thread
ToonFighter provided my defense for me. I haven't been on MafiaScum for the beginning of May. I have had issues in real life which I forgot to inform my moderators of which I am sorry for. I also did not have this game subscribed after I confirmed, so I did not check it from April 29th to May 1st. Big deal. I'm caught up now, and I have a much higher percentage of being a town-aligned-PR than Vezokpiraka's 0%.

[Porochaz]

I cant see the above image so Im posting it again from a different source.

[Porochaz]

Just a reminder I'll be gone over the next few days.

[Porochaz]

Im back for a few days, I have a couple of theories, but furcolows votes are bad (all of them) and

[Porochaz]

Im getting pissed with Llama and his obvtown reads. Other than that I hate the submit button being before the preview and I will read up later.

[Porochaz]

Jusus I hav had 2 and a hadfl botrls of wine and lik a fuck lod of southrn confort and you want m to repsoonf. Fact is thjqat you havnt raslly given us enough rsaon to not vot vezok, its just "hes obvtown". Not good nough.

[Porochaz]

Been discussed before, he had it years before Grey did.

Also Im going to catch up with this game tonight, I had a few thoughts but I don't know if they are outdated so will post later.

[Porochaz]

Unvote

Finals are over monday.

Dislike Furc wagon but also dislike Furc so torn on if he is a good lynch. I unvoted Vez because there is a lot of action going on right now and I need to check up on everyone to make sure that I am still wanting a vez lynch.

This is a bad post.

catching up.

[Porochaz]

Ok Ive caught up with the game, I dont have detailed thoughts other than what has been said already. However I am happy with moz's case on TF. It alleviates some of my suspicion against him.

The 3 top lynch candidates.

1, Frank, beyond what happened before, the voting is horrible
2, DeathNote, her posts have gotten incredibly bad - I might go into this later, but as I prefer Frank just now
3, Valerie, Ive made my reasons clear on him already

The bandwagon analysis isn't a great indicator in my view as both whether you like it or not have done things to warrant votes.

If I was to put a 4th person on the list it would be Agar, mostly due to his fierce stance on the val wagon, its the aggressiveness not the stance which bothers me. However Im not willing to put a vote on him until I had ISO'd him and done some looking at his meta.

[Porochaz]

Valerie is Vezok.

And only if you stop it with these pointless point posts.

[Porochaz]

You have been here a year right? So you should know that the roles should be given out totally randomly.

[Porochaz]

You mean Lain then

[Porochaz]

unvote. vote Deathnote

[Porochaz]

Why the hell was I prodded when Bamboo hasn't posted for 14 freaking days! Where is his replacement?!?!?!?

Vote: Vez

I was stupid for ever taking my vote off him.

Fuc dying tonight would be much appreciated but who knows what the odds of that happening.

I'm caught up now, and I have a much higher percentage of being a town-aligned-PR than Vezokpiraka's 0%.

I am a vanilla townie, like Vezokpiraka has claimed

Furc, why'd you hint at possibly having a power role when you started getting in trouble?

I must not be seeing what you are seeing.

It is difficult to find scum when the same people post over and over. I know that I have kinda lurked for the past few days but it started because I have a difficult time wrapping my head around what the active people are talking about.

I dont see the Surye case but the people who find him scummy, I think are town. So... I suppose I approve of his lynch. After Vez of course.

For those who will ask, DN's posts have gotten worse as we have gone on, but this line takes the biscuit.

[Porochaz]

With respect I totally disagree, from iso 18 your quality declines.

[Porochaz]

In general, I'm not a fan of the "easy lynches" argument, but Porochaz is catching my attention with this, and not in a good way.

How is DeathNote an easy lynch?

[Porochaz]

Having just iso'd you, you seem to be unnaturally defensive of Deathnote. Both vezok and furc could be described as easy wagons, they have support behind them, DN doesn't so your point doesnt make any sense.

[Porochaz]

So you think I am scummy because A. I attack someone you think is town and B. have also attacked furc and vezok thus all being easy lynches. That is despite having reasoning for all of them. You seem to have weak reasoning. I fail to see any decent scumhunting from deathnote, choosing to lurk instead of asking questions, judging a case by the players on it rather than the case itself. I think that warrants a vote and I couldn't give a flying fuck about any previous games, people learn from their mistakes, one off game does not make a player.

Once again your playing out of the big ol' book of scum. A book which should have been burned. I voted for you on the basis of your weak case on TF when you delivered it, I then unvoted. I gave you a chance because of the exams but nothing more. Yes I have attacked 2 of the weakest players. However lets not forget why, valerie claimed basically post 1, he didnt know the town role pm, he doesnt care if PR's die. Worthy of a vote. Frank lurked except when called up on it where he immediately posted and he also self voted. Worthy of a vote.

Now both have claimed and this is where my big ol' book of scum comes in. How does that make them immune from lynch? Whats more they claimed vt, so we are at no risk of lynching a power role. I fail to see your point. In regards to DN I explained the vote, there is reasoning behind it. So what you say is a factual inaccuracy. Just because my reads and reasons don't match up with yours does not mean I am wrong. I mean feel free to disagree with me but unless you have something better than "uh, I disagree, scum" or "they have claimed. they can't be scum" and are actually able to counter my points then I think you have no real right to say what my reads are. (and as a total aside when was it decided DN was a weak player?)

Now if you have a point in here then its that they are the weakest players but that only really holds up if they haven't done anything, which judging by the size of both wagons at their peak shows that there is some agreement within town that some of their actions were worth looking into.

And while we are at it, beyond your case on TF which we had to push you to get some sort of vague basis what scumhunting have you done, hmmm?

[Porochaz]

Also my e key is failing so assume any missing letters are that letter.

[Porochaz]

You see once again your reads of other players are wrapped up on how their reads match up with yours. My best reasoning is Frank, you have a null read on Frank.

Maybe you have a point, I dont feel I have focused exclusively on them, I certainly have had a look at AGar and yourself, but I have pushed harder on them, I also have never played DN before and actually don't label him/her as weak but I do think there is a lead there worth following up. By their very nature weaker players are going to be more noticeable and therefore are going to see more votes go there way. However pressure is by no means a bad thing. A lot of information can be gained from this. See Frank for an example.

Im going to go into WIFOM territory here, but what would be the point in me coming off or stop pushing the frank wagon and start a new one on another player on what you say is not good reasoning? Would you not say that I would just be making the job more difficult for myself? Im asking these questions because as scum where would my motivation be?

I see mafia as a game where you follow leads and get more information from the response from the leads and that is where the useful information lies 95% of the time. Now I use my vote in the process of that and I am not going to let weaker players have a pass, for all I know you four could all be scum together so it is worth investigating. From my DN vote for instance I don't have much info on DN as of yet. Her initial response strikes more town than scum but really Im not totally happy with her yet. I do however have a lot more info about you. The biggest bit, (regardless of whether you have scumhunted or not) being your defence on DN which from what I see is just because you think he's town from a comparison with another game. I currently don't have a proper reason as to why you feel the need to post a defence for him and then in turn attack me for voting him. Essentially have a reason if your going to do that, you don't and its making you look really bad and I will be more than likely to be putting my vote back on you as a "I want to lynch you" vote rather than a "Im applying pressure vote" once Im done with DN as your process with lack of reasoning is the scummiest thing thus far in this game.

[Porochaz]

That post was badly arranged.

[Porochaz]

ToonFighter (1) - (Amrun)
Zindaras (2) - (Albert B. Rampage, Furcolow)
vezokpiraka (2) - (GummyBear, DeathNote)
SensFan (1) - (Primate)
AGar (1) - (Medicated Lain)
creampuffeater (1) - (HezLucky)
DeathNote (1) - (Porochaz)

All of these votes are pointless.

Your right my vote on DN is pointless,

vote Amrun

For excessively defending Deathnote because he was town in another game.

Also Im going to be V/LA until the 20th on another exam.

[Porochaz]

Hmm.

IS is giving me a bit of weird vibes. He tends to tunnel more as scum, imho.

Porochaz, that vote on me is weak and you know it.

List of players who's opinion I won't take into account about my latest vote due to irony, conflict of interest and are always going to say that:
Amrun

[Porochaz]

Its going on someone I want to see hang. Not someone who is an easy lynch, not someone who has done some scummy things like self vote or premature claims, which are scummy but Ive seen vezok claim early before and I was sure I had seen furc self vote before (I couldn't find it), they are both VI's. You by self definition are not and I won't argue with that. But things like

being pushed for the slightest hint of a TF casee,
the amusing exchange in iso's 26 - 28 where you were so image concious of not being seen as image concious (a detail I'll admit I only saw now),
the fact your general reads are based on how well others match up with yours,
a clear misrep of Zindy (see post 429 for it and explanation why),
iso 19 as a whole,
your bad summary to RC
the fact you dont go out of your way to research things (which is just more of an annoyance)
the fact you have been defending DN with quite a bit of fervour yet absolutely nothing to back it up with.

I'm happy with my vote.

Oh, and List of people who don't get to say how useful my vote is and get taken seriously:
Person being voted.

[Porochaz]

I dont understand why everyone insists on wasting time voting for anyone other than Furc or Surye. Either join the failwagon and ill lynch the hell out of you later or vote for Surye.

Because with 4 days to go, there is easily enough time to look elsewhere and not accept mediocrity. (although, Furc isn't that bad a vote)

[Porochaz]

Defending DN is fine provided there is a basis for a defence. Amrun has not provided this and I struggle to see any reason for this when as you say we dont know her alignment.

[Porochaz]

What good would that do, when I am thought to be either scum, or someone who isn't meant to be listened to anyways.
All I can do is vote correctly.

This is why we dont listen to you. If you made the effort to change we would start listening

[Porochaz]

I'd like a response to 723, Porochaz.

Put simply, if you were that worried you wouldn't have said anything. If you are going to speak up about it then you have to stick your money where your mouth is otherwise you keep quiet and let him answer questions without your interjection.

[Porochaz]

You have 3 reasons why you would take the actions you have this game. Buddying or defending or having something legit that Ive missed. Now as the first two only scum would do and the 3rd you havent stated, what am I meant to think?

Also this is my last post till the 21st.

[Porochaz]

Oh, and if you had noticed, Porochaz, I've given lots of reasons why I believe Death Note is town. I even requoted that post for you and then asked you to respond to it, though you still seem not to have read it.

I read it, I thought about it and well, then I thought it wasnt good enough for reasons Ive stated before.

[Porochaz]

How much more of an explanation do you need that this post was not enough, Porochaz? You think it is pro-town to make a whole town case on someone? It is not. I usualy don't explain my townreads even this much until endgame at the least because I don't think it's good for town, this is all the explanation warrantedd for day 1, but passing it off as "because he was town in another game" is blatant misrep, Porochaz.

I am not attacking you because you're attacking DN alone. I see it as the final straw in a long line of attacks on weak players, if that makes more sense.

If it had been in this order: DN, Furcolow, vezok, I'd have attacked you for your vezok vote. See what I mean?

But I have, of course, asserted a town read on DeathNote because I have one on him. I will elaborate a little more than I have. In the beginning of the game, he put more effort into scumhunting than I saw him do the entire game that I was in with him before. Later, his posts have stopped having that same purpose, but they DO read as genuine to me. I think he feels a little like his head is over water and he can't grasp some of the cases that are flying around. I don't think DN-scum would admit that point blank like that. Add that to the fact that my top scumread has attacked him in a fashion that I do not read as scum on scum.

I am certainly not going to abandon my Toon Fighter vote for you, Porochaz, but IGMEOY.

Jesus Christ I have read your fucking post. This gives me nothing to go on. Well done

to you

his posts have done this and that but to me they haven't. You are giving him allowances on past experience. I am not. However you were impeding me on the basis of this persona you have of being right

cause you are

. That will not cut it for me and to me that looks awful. This post you hold in high esteem sucks dirty monkey balls. It is

not

a good reason to be defending him as you are. So stop shoving it in my face, Ive read it and I will repeat what I have said before if you dont have anything useful to say, keep quiet.

Now Im going back to my revision despite the fact its yet another lovely day and I have yet to get anything done despite the fact Ive literally only left my room to do the toilet and get food and even when I do this exam for the third time to get some sort of degree in a subject I have had no interest in for the past few years, I know that even then I wont be able to relax because I have to tidy the flat before my flatmate gets back. So I hope you understand when I get a little snarky at you for this circular argument and making me repeat myself and trying to kill me by shoving that post down my throat.

[Porochaz]

Apologies for that. My point remains but I am sorry for the tone.

[Porochaz]

Patrick as he so often does has prodded me as Im reading the thread. My exams and therefore my v/la is over. (Sorry, I did mention it in the sign up thread, Patrick, possibly should have posted it here as well.)

[Porochaz]

Firstly I will start calling vezok - vezok to stop the annoyance but Furc is Frank and always will be.

In any case, I looked at IS's case and I don't see it and I dont particularly like the way its been presented and followed upon by IS. The Frank wagon I have no problem with.

unvote, vote Furcolow

[Porochaz]

Why not just lynch LLamas target anyways? Then we can save the cop for later (if there is one)

What if they are lying and the person who sent that was scum? We wouldn't know who sent it.

vote Internet Stranger

[Porochaz]

unvote

You are correct although it would have been better if you had said that to begin with. However what BMcQ says is relevant however I dont see a reason for Llama to lie here, what would be the point?

[Porochaz]

Yeah but its a risk. Llama to me isn't a risky player, he's aggressive like hell, but I can't see him pulling off a gambit like that. That said I agree with the cult route although site generally dictates that this is mentioned beforehand these days (at least from my perspective) but then MoS has been away for a while... 3 NK's is possible, and if there is say a SK+Vig as well then it might be whats making it balanced... gut says there isn't one though.

[Porochaz]

Uggghhh falling victim to apathy/busyness/sleepiness.

Tomorrow is when it'll have to be, despite my (empty) promises.

>.<

Your bugging me now. Post properly or replace out. No middle ground.

[Porochaz]

Dont need deadwood.

vote RC

Excuse about deadline when one in this game has been and gone makes me angry

[Porochaz]

vote: Porochaz

several reasons:

1. Voting another "deadwood" policy lynch (ReaperCharlie) when 2-3 of his main suspects are still alive. (DeathNote and AGar. I'm guessing Frank and Valerie are Furc and vez?)

The 3 top lynch candidates.

1, Frank, beyond what happened before, the voting is horrible
2, DeathNote, her posts have gotten incredibly bad - I might go into this later, but as I prefer Frank just now
3, Valerie, Ive made my reasons clear on him already

The bandwagon analysis isn't a great indicator in my view as both whether you like it or not have done things to warrant votes.

If I was to put a 4th person on the list it would be Agar, mostly due to his fierce stance on the val wagon, its the aggressiveness not the stance which bothers me. However Im not willing to put a vote on him until I had ISO'd him and done some looking at his meta.

2. Extraordinarily high post to content ratio. Very image-oriented.

3. If Amrun was killed by scum/SK targeting another scum faction, Porochaz was really the only person to go after her aggressively yesterday.

I think you know fine well that the vote is purely a pressure vote, the 3rd point the only way I can respond to it is through WIFOM, in that as I was the only person to go after Amrun why would I then go ahead and kill her?

The 2nd point I think is moot considering the extent at which I went after Amrum.

[Porochaz]

V/LA this weekend.

May be able to post Friday.

You need to get out of this fucking game. Don't replace into games you have no intention of playing.

[Porochaz]

I think you know fine well that the vote is purely a pressure vote,

You may as well not be voting if you're doing so solely to 'pressure' and announcing it as such.

You are right especially if he is away anyway,

unvote

[Porochaz]

Hi guys, Im sorry I havent posted in the last couple of days. I have had a pretty rough week combined with a friends 30th. Ill get to it once Ive slept.

[Porochaz]

Sorry going to be V/LA probs for the next few days, grad dinner tonight then moving out. I will try and fit a post in as I promised one but it will be difficult.

[Porochaz]

Frank, ABR and Toon Fighter are my choices for today although I was quite happy leaving my vote on RC even though I

unvote

d a while ago. Ive kinda given up on hearing anything vaguely interesting from him. In other news, I will be skimming through some of the longer posts more properly later. This does not include any of Hezwares which include the points list. Apart from the last one, which seemed more like a defence than something useless.

[Porochaz]

I don't feel as if mafia would lower their suspicion of me from 3rd last to last considering my voting them
HezzLucky is probably town after all, even if I was originally wary of him due to the way he is calculating the game.

In terms of RC and TF, I will have to say I would rather lynch RC. He is very good at playing scum, and horrible at town. I am town this game, so I want to lynch him, because he will either trick us which results in my losing, or suck which results in my losing

vote: RC

Wait, he is playing terribly, so by that logic you are voting for town.

[Porochaz]

Had enough of idiots in games. RC I am looking at you, the reason why Im not cementing my vote on you is due to Bats last post. I want to see him take over totally.

In other news

vote DeathNote

. Time to step up.

[Porochaz]

I dont know if you know ML but activity overview under the page no's gives you a post count on each player plus when they last posted

[Porochaz]

@Sens:

, what's your read on ToonFighter? Also, do you think RC is more likely scum than Furcolow?

@Porochaz:

Frank, ABR and Toon Fighter are my choices for today although I was quite happy leaving my vote on RC even though I

unvote

d a while ago.

In other news

vote DeathNote

. Time to step up.

Your "choices" for today just happen to be the top three wagons at the time plus yesterday's biggest wagon. And yet you're voting for someone with no votes, a week before deadline. That situation on the whole makes you appear like you're avoiding wagoning a scumpartner or getting caught on the townwagon that's going to bail out your scumpartner. Why aren't you voting any of your top four suspects right now?

Im sorry in the int3r3sts of tim3, if the e button doesn't work first tim3 I will us3 3

W3ll, obviously things hav3 chang3d with ABR's claim but all of th3m had points against th3m. Th3 oth3r h3h 1 less than 4 suspects had various r3asons, Toon Fight3r has had a bad run of posts, whil3 RC is about as useful as non slic3d br3ad, h3 hasnt don3 anything us3ful y3t. Frank Iv3 gon3 into ad naus3am. I am not happy with either my suspicions on frank or RC at the moment becaus3 whilst I do feel both are scummy, I am trying to work out whether Im giving them as much room to manoeuvre due to my previous encounters. (you will have noticed I am just bashing the e now) Regardless bat is in now and frank hasnt said much recently to my recollection (I will admit apathy has come over me here and Im prefering my other game).

Im voting deathnote because she has posted lots but said little. At the moment at least I prefer this vote to the others, I will also be upfront is saying I have no qualms in switching to frank.

[Porochaz]

I like it but I don't know why... wait, where am I? What am I doing here? WHO AM I?

[Porochaz]

Aw I thought it was the vote for prom queen...

[Porochaz]

But they are being lazy and policy lynching RC as far as I can tell.

The guy hasn't posted any content, don't lie to me and say that you saw him scumslip. He's just a douche that doesn't participate in discussion, and everyone piles their vote on him for an easy lynch.

This. ^ So much this.

--

Gonna be able to catch up

at least

half the game tomorrow. It'll likely be more than half. I'll post what I have tomorrow evening, and then if I'm not done yet, I'll be able to finish by EOD on Tuesday. Not sure where Battousai is atm, tbh. We haven't talked much in our hydra (mostly because I was gone over the entire weekend).

BLAH BLAH BLAH!

Its not a policy lynch, its a case of you haven't don anything despite being in this game for what must be nearly a month. You keep making excuses and getting pissy when people vote for you and right now Im looking at your wagon thinking to myself these aren't the best reasons to lynch someone but jesus I look at MBL's case in 26 on me and I think I should respond but beyond saying something stupid like "My reads keep changing" and "that 3rd reason is pretty ridiculous and WIFOMy" Same with iso 37. (and they weren't the three top wagons since Im inadvertantly doing this.)

My point is we are four days from deadline and Im as apathetic as it gets and at this moment in time you are contributing majorly to my apathy, I know my votes aren't for the best of reasons but I would argue that none of my votes had been policy. Im currently voting Deathnote for what is essentially the same thing you are doing, the post to content ratio comes into it, what impact has she had on the game? etc. etc. However despite the decreased posts you are worse. Because you make such a big thing out of it. Remember Succession 1, you posted a hell of a lot there, useful stuff (sometimes). The only reason Im not voting you now is because Batt came along and I felt like I should see what he has to say. However unfortunately for Batt in retrospect you are two heads of a hydra and your contribution has failed to make me think your town therefore

unvote vote RC

[Porochaz]

You're not a very good player, SensFan.

You made me laugh.

[Porochaz]

your contribution has failed to make me think your town

Hence why I am re-reading and contributing? lol

Did you even READ my post? haha

WHERE? Tell me in which one of your posts could you even be thought of as contributing.

[Porochaz]

Heh. Well, all I ask is that you hold off lynching me until I get in a re-read, for which I have 5 days, and which I have promised to do today and possibly tomorrow. After that, go ahead, lynch the f*** out of me! I'm a VT so I have nothing to lose from being lynched except the headache of having to listen to SensFan. lol

tl;dr: Go ahead! Lynch me! But just wait until I can get in my thoughts and help my faction

win

first!

Its posts like this, see you are around enough to post whenever someone comes in, you post IMMEDIATELY after I vote or Sens says something, constantly saying Im going to read half the game today. etc. Ive had enough, you have run out of time from my point of view and to be honest this whole Batt hydraing is rubbish, he has already posted his thoughts and Im guessing as you havent even read the thread discussed it with him.

Batt's post, Ran, I have liked but I don't think he is making up for his other head.

Post edit: Give me a second, stop being so goddamn impatient, what is it with the site these days. Your answer is up there, already but if your impatient like that again I wait another 24 hours to answer.

[Porochaz]

Ill get to it tomorrow, Im only posting again to apologise Im in a grumpy mood today and I shouldnt take it out on you.

[Porochaz]

Answer my question then...

Deathnote, why aren't you

voting

doing anything AT ALL?

[Porochaz]

Look hes posting more than anyone else atm with no further news beyond empty promises to read the thread. Im done until he is lynched.

[Porochaz]

Skype Mafia (dam# you, Ranmaru!) ruined any chance of tonight's catch-up. It's 1:30 and I have to wake up at 6, so it'll have to be tomorrow when I finish.

Hi just wondering when this lynch will go through?

[Porochaz]

mod Im voting RC.

[Porochaz]

Well I kinda stopped reading after you proclaimed Im scummy with no precursor.

[Porochaz]

I have no interest in changing my vote, you had a deadline in my book and you long past it catching up at the end of day 2 does not cut it when you replaced in day 1.

[Porochaz]

I have no interest in changing my vote, you had a deadline in my book and you long past it catching up at the end of day 2 does not cut it when you replaced in day 1.

Translation:

"I don't care how much you've contributed, I don't care how much you're obviously town, I don't care if you're going to be 3500% more useful and townie than Toon Fighter from here on out. So just drop it. All I really care about is that I am grumpy, moody, and pissy, and that you lurked for a lot of the game because you were busy with real life. So tough beans if you don't like it, my vote's staying on you."

Ok. That makes sense.

You had your chance you blew it. Now move on to someone who might change there mind and stop demanding things because its the perfect way to make sure I dont care.

[Porochaz]

Caught up in another game tonight. Going to do a never ending reapercharlie move here today.

Im joking by the way.

[Porochaz]

Im up to date but have no where to go. I wanted to reread a few people but am worried because my reads thus far havent been good. Has Frank been replaced?

[Porochaz]

That would be a yes, well I want to see what he has to say... will look more in depth at the votes currently cast but not sure I understand the DN votes.

[Porochaz]

In fact I dont like any of the votes for deathnote on a sliding scale from first to last person to vote. Toon Fightrs vote is not good.

vote TF

[Porochaz]

Well? I see you posting around 20 minutes after my previous post. @Porochaz

It was a short post at about 3am, this post I have the feeling will take considerably longer. If you look at the timings of the three votes along with the game changer.

I think it is reasonable to say that LlamaFluff actually had a result on DeathNote all along.

...right?

vote: DeathNote

Its not great reasoning, but its still there. I do think at this point its more likely to be a "scum messenger" but this route could easily be taken as well.

I don't know. Llama said he had a reason for doing it. It seemed like he was desperate to get it out.

I think we should look back at his reads and see if he crumbed anything.

I'm ok with a Deathnote wagon also, because of the way he reacted to Llama's claim. (He reacted as if he KNEW Llama was wrong, but didn't try to call Llama obv scum for it or anything)

Vote: Deathnote

Your post gives further reason and all in all actually it seems like a townie post. It's still not fantastic reasoning but its fine none the less.

Then latterly-confirmed MBL quoted this:

Attention scumbags:
REDACTED IN FEAR OF ACCIDENTAL MODKILL
Is that the best you can do with your scum Messenger ability?

Then with no further reasoning, no acknowledgement that MBL's posts change things -

I agree, Llama's possible guilty result on Deathnote is the best thing we have right now

vote: DeathNote

Just a sheep vote where there definitely shouldnt be one. Thats why Im voting TF.

[Porochaz]

Wait

unvote

the message was about Kison and he claimed to have a guilty on Deathnote. Gah that sucks more. Sorry I got confused.

[Porochaz]

Sorry TF, my feelings on the matter now are he's played it in such a way that I wouldnt be totally confident that he actually investigated DN but it would make sense if he got a guilty but wanted to remain hidden but at the same time the gambit of outing then "re-inning" himself seems counter productive to this especially if he has a guilty. Will have to think about it more maybe read through day 2.

[Porochaz]

How is Porochaz still alive?

This is a triumph.
Im making a note here. HUGE SUCCESS.

[Porochaz]

Im not sure what you are referring to but if you mean my read through it will take me a bit to force myself to read through again and lying naked in my bed at 5am is not the time looking at mafiascum instead of sleeping it just doesnt feel like the right time.

[Porochaz]

Hi guys running a fever and graduating tomorrow means Im more than likely going to be V/LA until sunday.

[Porochaz]

Anti replacement post. More tomorrow.

[Porochaz]

Hi MoS This is a response. I am reading over once Im fully awake.

[Porochaz]

The problem with the defence that the messages were easily dismissable is false. KK is either a survivor and is telling the truth or he is scum. Regardless he can't remain alive.

vote KK

[Porochaz]

Why not? I think its pretty clear cut.

[Porochaz]

Well out of the two options 1 being he lynches himself as scum and the other which would go entirely against his wincon I dont see the problem.

[Porochaz]

Yes because we are discussing a lot of important things in this thread at the moment...

[Porochaz]

So... hello?

[Porochaz]

Yeah but assuming scum are 4 players each he has to be left, any counter claim?

Im vanilla by the way

[Porochaz]

3/3/1/18

or

4/4/1/16?

10 townies confirmed.
1 cop
1 doc
1 vig
1 tracker/extra voter

1godfather and 2 goons
1 goon

and 7 unknowns.

Neo, Link, Trinity, Morpheus, Oracle.

All pretty big roles within the film.

The trainman is not. I do not like that claim, Im currently thinking about whats more balanced at a base level. 8 scum roles and 1 neutral against 16 town... Im not sure. I dont think it would be wise to remove him from contention yet in any case.

[Porochaz]

I would ask why, but knowing you thats going to be pointless isn't it?

[Porochaz]

Ah ok, so the reason is that your being an idiot listening to claimed scum then. Glad thats sorted.

[Porochaz]

What if there are only 3 mafia in each team?

[Porochaz]

I went and had a look because I havent really balanced two scum teams before. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=14138 - This game is the closest found (I didnt look in archives) - 24 players. 3 werewolves, 3 mafia. I personally would have thought a 2:1 ratio would be quite high?

[Porochaz]

More recently complete: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16961 24 players 3/3/1/17 with the 1 being a SK...

[Porochaz]

Posting

[Porochaz]

Jesus Christ dont be idiots.

Hes a vig, we know this. Not a day cop. Your voting for me on the basis of a frequent loose cannon townie who has given no reasoning. Where was the part where we were going to look over the game again?

Although it doesn't really matter does it. ABR is essentially confirmed town here. So what we have is scum 1 and scum 2 on this wagon, now where is the third one?

I just noticed something with BMQ. He says the setup of 4-4-1 s ridiculous but in the same breath suggests Kison should be shot for suggesting we should lynch Zindy no matter what. If the setup is 3-3-1 then Zindy IS lying and is confirmed Matrix scum.

vote BMQ

Look ABR i KNOW you hate being wrong, but you are, please look how BMQ's last post doesn't make sense and unvote me before Zindy gets back!

[Porochaz]

ABR you need to shoot Zindy or BMQ (or possibly Sens) tonight, for the town to have any chance, if I get lynched.

[Porochaz]

If the only possibility is that its 3-3-1 then why the hell are you voting me and NOT the confirmed scum?

[Porochaz]

Congrats guys, you followed ABR on a random hunch on basically nothing and you've lynched town. So well done for just playing randomly and not lynching with a case so late in the game. Congrats scum cause Id be suprised if town won this one.

[Porochaz]

Well done Kison, you deserved the win.