Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Kison]

/confirm

[Kison]

this is all nonsense.

Vote: mozamis

[Kison]

@Llama- Both. I am for lynching Vez now but could easily be swayed into lynching you based on your reaction of a scum Vez.

Which could not possibly happen until tomorrow.

[Kison]

Related to Vezok:
Yeah, okay, there's an argument that "lynching a VT means we don't lynch a PR" but since I'm refusing to use any kind of history and I don't know the guy, I'm not sure I'm not buying that he's ANYTHING. It seems so random and erratic to me that I can't really get a solid read off of it.

As for the "that's not what MINE says"... I'm not getting a strong tell off of that, because everything else he does seems so half-assed, I wouldn't be surprised that this one is either.

Now then... all things being said, my gut finds it all fishy, but not scummy.

I'll try to do some more tomorrow when I didn't have to work so late.

Unvote

Vote: Bamboomancer

This all basically says you have no real opinion on the matter. Take a firm stance on something.

vezokpiraka looks fine so far. His claim was dumb but I am failing to see the scum motive behind his behavior.

Yosarian: Have you ever enforced this "lynch vanilla day one" strategy before? Could you show me where, if so.

[Kison]

In my opinion it should come down to either Vezo or someone voting for him right now. Im voting Surye.

Surye

If no one else agrees on Surye, im willing to go with Kison instead.

Why did you mention me here. I have never voted Vezo.

FoS:AGAR

-- Very strong defense on Vek, and the reasons aren't really making sense. I also feel like his posts have been very spastic in trying to just stir up anything possible. This would be my second choice for most suspicious, but it seems smarter to lynch Vek, and see if he is scum. If vek is scum, AGAR is my #1 choice for tomorrow.

How much of this relies on your belief that vezokpiraka is scum?

So given my thoughts above, what does someone think of this plan (thought of it while driving home, may need some help):

• Forget Vez wagon as ultimately useless for D1.
  
• Cop investigates Vez night 1. The nice thing about this is if we only have an alignment cop, that is all we need.
  
• If Vez is clean, we can backburner him, and not worry about addressing issues of action tampering, since we have no real claims yet.
  
• If Vez comes up dirty, we have D2 lynch, save risking a power role, and give slight incentive to kill Vez N1 as it would prevent a mislynch D2. In this case we'd need to then begin protecting the cop.

Thoughts?

FOS Surye

Not a fan of the vezokpiraka wagon. Declaring him the only acceptable lynch for the day as a result of his vanilla claim means you view scumhunting with great pessimism. Surye, who is backing Yosarian2's statistical analysis while simultaneously suggesting we run up someone else during the day is sketchy.

[Kison]

Could we get a prod on Bamboomancer.

Surye: Who do you even suspect. You claimed a few posts back that you've been trying to contribute to scum hunting, yet this entire game day your focus has been on the Vezo issue. With twenty pages of content, who looks bad to you?

[Kison]

Agree with lynching Vezok for effectively narrowing down the PR list.

Disagree with doing it quickly. There is no benefit beside seeing who jumps on the wagon.

So for the moment, you are the best lynch as we know for sure you are either villager or scum and we wont risk lynching someone of more value.

Vez claimed VT.
Vez is not a town PR.
Scum now know not to kill Vez.
Vez can be scum.
Everyone else can be a PR.
Vez is safest lynch.

Vote: Vez

Yeah it is an incomplete post but to clarify more, Vez was the one who effectively narrowed down the PR list and because of that, I agreed with lynching him.

BTW-

KILL VEZ WITH FIRE FOR CLAIMING A VICTORY CONDITION THAT IS NOT TOWN!!!!!!!!!!

Unvote

Finals are over monday.

Dislike Furc wagon but also dislike Furc so torn on if he is a good lynch. I unvoted Vez because there is a lot of action going on right now and I need to check up on everyone to make sure that I am still wanting a vez lynch.

Why did you unvote given the level of confidence you displayed that Vez was not only the safe play for the day, but seemingly messed up his win condition? Now that you've had time to catch up, where will your vote be going?

[Kison]

I think more than the people that are posting though, I am very worried about all the first day lurkers, so let's try:

unvote, vote:fuzzy lightning

Seriously? No posts this whole game? Are we waiting for a replacement there or something?

He doesn't have any posts anywhere on the site since the 29th of April.

What do you make of Bamboom's posting thus far?

Unvote

Vote: Surye

Where you be?

[Kison]

"V/LA 6th/7th/8th"

It is May 10th.

[Kison]

Hahaha. Enjoy tomorrow's migraine.

Surye: Could you please go back and respond to my question earlier?

[Kison]

Unvote

Vote: Surye

Not sure why my last vote didn't go through.

Could we please get a replacement on Bamboomancer. He hasn't posted in 14 days.

Could we get a prod on Bamboomancer.

Surye: Who do you even suspect. You claimed a few posts back that you've been trying to contribute to scum hunting, yet this entire game day your focus has been on the Vezo issue. With twenty pages of content, who looks bad to you?

You asked me to answer, and obviously, I like Furcolow as scum right now. I was trying to resolve my internal conflict with the issues how to deal with the vez VT claim, and figure out how to get on a scumhunting track. I obviously wasn't doing a great job of that.

Just Furcolow?

[Kison]

What makes you suspicious to me, Porochaz, is that you are ONLY attacking the weakest players. You are not attacking the weak players in tandem with other better but scummy players. You're JUST attacking the weak players, and usually not with a good case, either.

What do you think of the fact Surye has gone after only vezokpiraka and Furcolow all day?

[Kison]

Surye, I have a rope with your name on it. You disappear right after I ask you to take a stand against someone other than the two easy lynches. I see you posting in other games.

[Kison]

Furc was lynchable at deadline. Anyone using that as an excuse should be looked at carefully.

HezLucky specifically called the Furcolow wagon 'bad'. At quick glance, his switch doesn't look that unreasonable. Agar's switch on the other hand is bizarre.

Kison #690 - as of this line, I am somehwat (5th place on scumlist) suspicious of Surye, and have town reads on Vez and Furc.
Of all the wagons Kison could have joined, he chose the Surye one which isn't even leading. This post I support. He could've
gone for something much easier. (unfortunately for him he drops from 2nd only to tied for 3rd on my scumlist)

You put me high on your list because of my FoS and vote on Surye. Why would my second vote on him(since my first one did not go through) put me lower on your list. Consistency is a bitch.

(Hi Kublai!)

[Kison]

ReaperCharlie - Replaced into the game 2 days before I did, yet couldn't be bothered to read up. Instead brags about beating Portal 2, then posts to say he's fine with {whatever} lynch.

I am probably significantly busier than you and/or lazier than you and/or less task-oriented than you and/or scum.

More likely the first three than the last one.

You're doing an awfully good job keeping up with the current posts in the game for someone who is so busy.

[Kison]

What the hell is Llama talking about?

Someone sent me something last night. Says that a specific player is the cult recruiter. The way its worded though sounds like someone faking a result more then a town amnesic, especially because the result is "cult recruiter" instead of just "cult"

If that is legit then they should claim. That is a bad role to keep around.

However, there are multiple people on the Surye wagon I'm not really a fan of. I'm sticking with my vote on fur for now, because we have a better chance of hitting scum there.

Who on the wagon were you not a fan of? What do you think of them now based on Surye's flip?

[Kison]

I prefer keeping the cop hidden, what do we have to lose anyways? We don't have any leads right now. So either we lynch the name or we go after someone else, like Kison.

Given the result looks fake based on the description provided by LlamaFluff, following it blindly doesn't seem like a good idea.

So I suppose that means you'll have to go after me.

But I'm too adorbz to be going after.

[Kison]

If there was a scum pushing the Surye lynch from a fairly early point, I'm thinking it was probably either Kison, who attacked Surye but didn't really do much of anything else on day 1 (he also attacked bamboomancer early on, but seems to have forgotten it and hasn't had any questions or anything for Bamboomancer's replacement) or CES; I'm not really impressed by CES's posting day 1 in general. Zindaras is also possible, but that seems less likely to me.

Vote:Kison

for now.

Your comment about me not pursuing Kublai Khan is odd. My vote was on Bamboomancer because in the two posts he made before flaking he had posted many words without taking any real stand on anything. Kublai replaced in and attacked four different players in his catchup post.

~

The three vote ReaperCharlie wagon is terrible and an easy lynch. He isn't playing the game. No read there whatsoever.

I think you know fine well that the vote is purely a pressure vote,

You may as well not be voting if you're doing so solely to 'pressure' and announcing it as such.

[Kison]

unvote: Toon Fighter
Vote: Kison

I had mentioned in the beginning that I wanted to vote for Kison. I tried looking through the vote counts, but couldnt find the one that I recalled on him going after Vezok initially. Now I see that there are vote count errors and that

he was promoting the wagon without actually voting on it.

Bravo Kison, thats one way to hide from vote count analysis, especially in a large game.

vezokpiraka looks fine so far. His claim was dumb but I am failing to see the scum motive behind his behavior.

Not a fan of the vezokpiraka wagon. Declaring him the only acceptable lynch for the day as a result of his vanilla claim means you view scumhunting with great pessimism. Surye, who is backing Yosarian2's statistical analysis while simultaneously suggesting we run up someone else during the day is sketchy.

My support of that wagon is amazingly crafty in its wording.

[Kison]

Because enough people have chimed in, I got a Cult Recruiter result on Kison. So yeah...

Awesome. Any of you fuckers want to claim having sent this in?

Kison - What happened between post 530 & 543 (both Page 22) that caused you to finally change your FOS of Surye into a vote?

My vote at the time was on Bamboomancer, who was no longer active, and Surye had (in his signature) that he was V/LA over the weekend, yet hadn't posted by Tuesday.

[Kison]

Vote: Primate

I forgot he was even in the game until I saw his post from last night.

His Day One On Surye:

- May 02, Iso #7: Approves of Surye's Vez stance.
- May 02, Iso #10: Has no read on Surye either way.
- May 09, Iso #11: After disappearing, says he has caught up. No mention of Surye.
- May 16, Iso #12: After disappearing again, he comes back and votes Surye. Clearly states he believes Surye is scum yet fails to explain why.
- May 21, Iso #16 & 17: Reiterates his vote and belief that Surye is scummy.

Primate:

Please explain why you believed Surye to be scum. What changed between May 2 (May 9?) and May 16th?

I also find your recent vote on Gummy Bear suspect. You have never once mentioned them and vote them without explanation. Clarify that vote.

[Kison]

Kublai, I just reread all your posts since you replaced in. Your vote on Toon Fighter is just as sleazy as, if not more so than, Primate's vote on GummyBear. You have never once mentioned him, even in your last post.

[Kison]

Kison is still basically actively lurking. He had one post with some content and a vote 3 days ago, but that's really all he's done for all of day 2.

Hi. Active lurker checking right in.

What do you think about Primate?

[Kison]

@Kison: Why you lurkin'? What are your thoughts on TF and RC? Would you vote either? How is your vote doing for you?

I lurk because I can, and because I am a lazy bastard.

Definitely not willing to vote Reaper Charlie unless there is no other option. That wagon is crap. Yes, frustrating that he is not contributing, but this strategy, if you want to call it that, is not doing him any favors, and yet he continues with it. I am chalking it up to laziness and apathy towards this game, which renders his behavior fairly null. Looking at his posts in other games, I see similar behavior. The only point with any validity is what SensFan said earlier, which is that he idiotically hammered without reading the game. I am willing to wait to see if the hydra improves participation, otherwise I am considering him dead weight.

I'm willing to lynch Toon Fighter. Reading him in isolation, just about every vote of his is terrible. The Death Note one in particular, in which he points out an apparent contradiction(one that doesn't even exist), suggests an explanation for said contradition, then proceeds to vote the guy anyway, reads as fabrication. His FoS on Mozamis is fine. His

FoS on Vezok

looks like bullshit:

"You are losing the town points I gave you earlier, and I am starting to think we should policy lynch you as an anti-town player"

. Piggybacking on the lame "Furc is active lurking" wagon. Jumps on Kublai for "lack of D1" scumhunting despite the fact he replaced in late D1 and actually did provide a decent bit.

Both Kublai Khan and Primate deserve further scrutiny, though I'm acknowledging neither is likely to be pursued today. Primate at least comments on his own inactivity and admits he is having trouble getting into the game. Kublai has no such excuse. His last vote also is horrendous - placed without explanation on someone who he has

never once commented on

, while he never finished pursuing two of four of his previous suspects(and one of those two he dropped was me, based solely on the BS 'Recruiter' result form LlamaFluff). I also never responded to one of Kublai's questions yet he never followed up on it, which I find interesting. Kublai also replaced Bamboomancer, whose mere two posts in the game both read as scum.

Unvote

Vote: Toon Fighter

[Kison]

Kison is still basically actively lurking. He had one post with some content and a vote 3 days ago, but that's really all he's done for all of day 2.

Hi. Active lurker checking right in.

What do you think about Primate?

I want to hear more from him, he hasn't said much today, but his day 1 posting generally gives me a decent vibe. He's a hard guy to read, in general, and he has a bad habit of lurking for periods no matter what his alignment is, but I don't see anything especally scummy about his posts.

What specifically did you like about his day one posting? What do you think about his shady vote on Surye, or his vote from today on GummyBear, who he has never once commented on?

[Kison]

^ Horrible vote

[Kison]

Do you believe that Reaper Charlie is playing a particularly stellar game right now?

[Kison]

Also hypocritical is your stance on lurkers. You called Bamboomancer (my predecessor) scum for lurking and not providing content, but you're defending ReaperCharlie to the hilt.

Lurking and lack of content was not the issue with Bamboomancer. Given time, it was fairly obvious he had flaked. The issue I took was his second post, which commented on many things and took no firm stand on anything.

You're the only one that has complained about it. Plus you've made two posts complaining about my lack of reads which is hypocritical considering how close you're keeping your cards to your chest as well.

Lack of reads has never been an issue.

Now that you have had an opportunity to witness reactions, feel free to point out what makes him read as scum to you.

[Kison]

What makes you think Yos is scum, Llama? I don't recall you thinking that before.

[Kison]

Kison votes Toon Fighter for "terrible votes", which is a line of reasoning I disagree with but at least makes sense to me. The whole wagon seems to be crap. I'm not saying TF is innocent, but I just plain don't understand what people see in him.

What do disagree with? Voting someone for terrible votes, or that Toon Fighter's votes are not terrible? Neither makes sense to me.

[Kison]

Cop claim is not too surprising with how much Llama has been talking about investigative roles and how they might work in this game. But a guilty on Death Note doesn't really make sense in light of Llama's play from today. I don't see any crumbing of it anywhere unless it was all within the past few days, and that is a peculiar time to go at it.

His handling of the "amnesiac result", on the other hand, looks like he was trying to beckon a false claim. Either way, both parties beed to claim fully at this point.

[Kison]

Not voting Death Ninja.

@LlamaFluff: You supported a Toon Fighter wagon earlier in the day. Is his 'pro town machine' claim the only thing that has changed your mind?

[Kison]

ToonFighter - I don't agree with the wagon on him. There are votes without reason, and I'm not seeing the reeking of scumminess that others do. That being said, his play hasn't inspired my confidence in his townliness, either.

Kison votes Toon Fighter for "terrible votes", which is a line of reasoning I disagree with but at least makes sense to me. The whole wagon seems to be crap. I'm not saying TF is innocent, but I just plain don't understand what people see in him.

What do disagree with? Voting someone for terrible votes, or that Toon Fighter's votes are not terrible? Neither makes sense to me.

[Kison]

Toon Fighter: Now that Death Ninja is posting content, what do you make of your vote?

Since ABR just claimed vig, and I see no reason to keep voting him, I

unvote

The way you phrase this sentence, you seem to be unvoting ABR for more than just his claim. Please explain in detail why you believe ABR is no longer a good vote.

[Kison]

I think it is reasonable to say that LlamaFluff actually had a result on DeathNote all along.

...right?

vote: DeathNote

No. His play yesterday does not at all suggest that.

[Kison]

Day Two began May 25th. LlamaFluff didn't even mention Death Note until his

policy lynch

post on June 08. Between the start of Day Two and that post, he voted:

-

Toon Fighter

-

GummyBear

-

Toon Fighter(again)

-

Porochaz

He then proceeds to claim a guilty result and retracts it shortly after. If that is his idea of bread crumbing a guilty result, it's quite terrible. It made no sense at the time and makes even less sense now.

[Kison]

I would be inclined to believe that the Kison thing was a breadcrumb, but if MBL's message is from the same source, that would mean it wouldn't be. Except if MBL is posting the message to keep Kison safe, which would be plausible if Kison actually is Cultscum. The DeathNote thing...it seemed just stupid town yesterday, but maybe I was wrong about that. DeathNote and Kison both deserve the attention they're getting anyway.

^ Scum

I find it very difficult to believe that you genuinely think that your scenario makes any sense given that:

- LlamaFluff would have received a

role

as his result, not a mere 'Innocent' or 'Guilty'.
- LlamaFluff strongly suggested that the result he received was fake on numerous occasions.
- LlamaFluff was reluctant to share the name of his result, and only did so after numerous people requested it.
- LlamaFluff would have to have been stupid enough to refrain from full claiming and getting rid of a cult recruiter on day two,

despite what he says in this post

.
- I was one of the first people to suggest the result be made public.

[Kison]

Very demoralized after MBL's modkill.

[Kison]

Toon Fighter, explain why you disagree with post #1828.

[Kison]

Vote: Toon Fighter

[Kison]

It doesn't look very incriminating.

But don't confuse my disbelief that LlamaFluff was breadcrumbing a guilty on DeathNote to suggest that I think he is town. His reaction to the MBL modkill is sketchy, and overall play is underwhelming.

Good lynches for today:

Toon Fighter
Kublai Khan
Zindaras
Death Note

Toon Fighter's Death Note vote is horrid. He is blindly following what Brian McQueso started even after I provided an explanation for why LlamaFluff wasn't breadcrumbing a guilty, and ignored my request that he explain why.

Time for him to die.

[Kison]

Toon Fighter, you again failed to respond to 1828.

My vote has little chance of moving until you do.

[Kison]

was the message MBL received similar to the message somebody else got earlier?
honestly i havent read over the game and id like to know, its relevant to my interests.

Yes it was very similar. Both likely to have originated from scum.

This means that, as far as I'm concerned, LlamaFluff wasn't breadcrumbing a result with his D2 opener and Kison's off the hook for that.

If you are town and truly believed this was even remotely possible, I am going to be very disappointed in you.

Do you think TF show's VI like qualities? I think his whole play all game was bad, just not necessarily scummy. I also think Sensfan is a good candidate for lynch too.

Perhaps, but I can't fathom a town motive behind many of his actions, and that he continually refuses to explain why he thinks my scenario is less likely than that of LlamaFluff breadcrumbing a guilty on Death Note suggests to me he is fabricating suspicion and attempting to ride an easy wagon(well, no longer an easy wagon).

(pre-post edit: looks like he

finally

acknowledged my post).

Reading Ranmaru's post, I am also inclined to believe he may have had a 'machine' on me or a innocent on RC. For that reason, and as I re-think Llama's play, I shall

unvote

.

I don't think this is likely. LlamaFluff specifically said

he would never have investigated you

.

[Kison]

I am heavily inclined to believe that one of Sens or TF is Hez's scum buddy. Looking at the interactions between Sens an Hez though, I don't think scum would be that willing to attack each other head on. It seems more likely that the interaction between Hez and TF is that of scum partners, and between the two of them, I am leaning more at TF.. What do others think?

This is weird. You state you think either Toon Fighter or SensFan is buddied with HezLucky, but also state that you don't think that SensFan and HezLucky would fight against each other like they did if they were scum together. What exactly about their interactions leads you to believe they are scum together, if not that?

It is also peculiar that despite your belief throughout most of the game that I am suspicious, despite SensFan being near the bottom of your radar throughout most of the game, and despite me being at an equal score as SensFan on HezLucky's list, that you are going after SensFan over me.

[Kison]

Kublai Khan: Who are the scum?

[Kison]

Nice. Whenever I'm done my work, you guys are planning to lynch me anyways.

Given that I don't have the same WC as any of you guys, I'm suddenly wondering why I'm spending so much time combing so much text only to lose the game as soon as I produce the fruits of my labor.

At least explain why you think McQueso is scum.

@Lain: Why do you find it implausible that HezLucky didn't put an ally high on his list? Your infatuation with that list is lazy scum hunting.. You have essentially no reason for suspecting SensFan other than his position on that list, and it goes completely against your prior read.

[Kison]

Not sure what you're saying, ABR. If you're suggesting there are three remaining Matrix scum I assume you're suggesting there is also one other Merovingian to account for a total of four. Where does the fourth kill on Night Two fit in with that scenario.

[Kison]

Did my hearing aide just fall out it or did Zindaras just claim scum.

[Kison]

Zindaras pretty much has nothing to gain by claiming as Merovingian Mafia. He is probably lying and is Matrix, possibly with kill immunity and one remaining scum partner(making it teams of three).

If this is the case and there are two Matrix remaining, we mislynch and ABR misfires, it puts him in a much better position.

As Merovingian has has pretty much forfeit any chance he had of winning by claiming.

[Kison]

Not buying any of Zindaras' bullshit and still think he is lying about his faction. There is still a serial killer out there most likely. If we are dealing with 4-4-1 then there is only one other town other than ABR, and that would be me.

Whatever happens today, if that 4-4-1 setup is indeed correct, Merovingian, ABR and SK should all be trying to hit Matrix scum. Matrix should try to hit Merovingian or the SK.

[Kison]

Can we please lynch this harrowing sack of scum.

[Kison]

I mean, as Merovingian, I have more of an incentive to claim than as Agent. As Agent, I just need to get one good lynch and I win. As Merovingian, I actually need to survive to endgame.

As an Agent, by claiming, lying about your faction, and trying to derail our lynch for today(and to an extent, ABR's kill), you increase your likelihood of getting a that one "good lynch" that you need.

[Kison]

I highly doubt a lonely Merovingian goon would step up and out themselves just because Zindaras is pretending to be them.

We would lynch Zindaras, he would flip Matrix, and the person claiming Merovingian would be wide open for three killing factions(Matrix(if > 3), SK, ABR). On the other hand they could keep quiet and stand a good chance of dodging the lynch bullet.

[Kison]

Mobile post. McQueso, do not mistake my conviction that Zindaras is lying to mean that I have not considered the possibility that he is telling the truth. I have, and obviously I have concluded that it is unlikely for the reasons that I have already laid out.

[Kison]

Sigh. Why the hell did we not lynch Zindaras yesterday again?

I have some good news.

Vote: Zindaras

I am not scum.

I have some bad news.

Process of elimination means Death Note probably is Zindaras' other Matrix partner.

The only gimmer of hope I have is that this game is not yet over. Death Note, if by some chance you are not scum, Zindaras is your vote.

[Kison]

Hopefully. Zindyscum you got me all wrong baby.

[Kison]

Still here and not unvoting.

[Kison]

Absolutely not.

If you don't just flat out have kill immunity, you will use your "commuter" role to hide tonight if we do anything but lynch your right now.

[Kison]

Death Note, if you're town, for the love of god, vote Zindaras.

[Kison]

4) We've already tried killing you. We failed. Hence, we don't do it again.

When?

[Kison]

Are you admitting that Death Note is your partner.

[Kison]

I don't negotiate with terrorists.

[Kison]

Right now, I'm not of the belief ABR is serial killer. If he is genuine, lynching Zindyscum is the only course of action that makes sense. We lynch you and Alfred finishes off DeathNote.

I am not so easily relinquishing this tiebreaker we were fortunate to get over you on the deadlocked votes. I like watching you twitch, waiting for me to unvote, Zindyscum. It brings me sick, twisted satisfaction. And why shouldn't it. It is only proper retribution for the vile duplicity you displayed in yesterday's gambit, and from the day before, when you tried implicating me with LlamaFluff's "breadcrumbing." Oh yes, you will hang for that, noose tucked snugly around your slimy scumbag neck, and for all those poor, innocent citizens you so cruelly slaughtered in their sleep. Did you kill Internet Stranger, you bastard. I liked Internet Stranger!

You should have killed me when you had the chance, you filthy scumbag. You'd have had better luck talking SensFan into switching, since he was one of the people you so craftily seduced into lynching town over confirmed scum yesterday. But you just had to go and whack him, too.

Maybe you can talk me into switching, though. Just maybe. But you'll have to do better than "ABR is still alive."

[Kison]

Scumbag: Did your team get any protective, roleblocking, tracking, or any kind of targeting abilities besides killing.

[Kison]

I have?

[Kison]

Zindaras, what would you like for your last meal.

[Kison]

I was sad when Internet Stranger died.