Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[danakillsu]

Alright, it's good to see this player-list in a game I signed up for so long ago.
Before we get started, how much do you guys know about this show? For once, I feel like a bit of an expert on the flavor material.
Season 1 isn't exactly my strong point in Chuck, but I still remember a good deal of it.

vote: ReaperCharlie

Obvscum is obvscum.

[danakillsu]

I am a massive fan of the show and know most if it like the back of my hand. (I am a couple of episodes behind US pace on season 4 at the moment.)

Kinda figured, given your old avatar was Morgan Grimes.

[danakillsu]

unvote vote: Ragnarokio

Your posts are a waste of space. Fluff on page 4 is not a great idea in a small game.

[danakillsu]

@ MarchHare
Just trying to put some pressure on someone with at least a little reasoning. I hate your repeated attempts to make us think we can't find scum on page x.

unvote vote: MarchHare

[danakillsu]

Danakillsu, how is fluff a few pages into the game a scum tell?

It's admittedly a weak one, which is why I stopped voting Rag. But the reasoning behind it is that fluff posting can make you seem active without having to contribute anything that might give off a scumtell, and simultaneously distract the town from scumhunting. But your attempt to stop any cases from forming by defending players from the inevitably weak attacks made by others is much scummier. We can find scumtells this early in the game, and convincing ourselves that we can't hurts the town.

[danakillsu]

Thor is acting town now. Are we done with the random wagon on him yet?

[danakillsu]

Bad wagon.

Please wax eloquent to me on why you are pushing it.

How the hell is "Bad wagon" a dodgy answer?

He's not scummy.

It's a bad wagon because he's not scummy.

The objective is to lynch scum. Therefore, lynching players who are not scummy is bad.

This is not a hard concept.

There's no particularly good lynch at this point in time. We are five fucking pages into the game, two of which are almost exclusively one-on-one interactions.

He really is doing little other than attempting to derail weak wagons, despite admitting that all wagons will be weak at this stage in the game. I rest my case.

[danakillsu]

Looking for town cred while calling yourself out on it = zZzZzZzZzzz

I know you're better than this, Thor. I've played/watched games with you before.

So tell me. Why do YOU think dana is scum? Or is your vote hollow?

How about you answer this yourself?
All I've seen from you is meta-bullcrap that you haven't even explained. My friends seem to like to call me scum when I actually play games with them, which I find kind of strange.

[danakillsu]

Dana, could you share with us your feelings on MarchHare as the game progressed?

I have no idea > crazy active lurker > intentional content-less poster > scum pretending not to understand any of my points on him. Or at the very least scum not trying to understand my points on him.

[danakillsu]

Alright, I don't seem to quite understand your case on him. Could you explain it?

*headdesk*
You have lost all my respect. I will not be responding to any more of your lame one-line posts. Making cases on you might be a different story.

[danakillsu]

That's a good point. Please stop encouraging lurking with your relentless spam.
Understandably, those of you that have just started watching the show are spending a lot of your time drooling over Yvonne.
The rest of us, though, would like to get on to the game, so please let us do so.
Everyone please make a concerted effort to stop posting one-liners and get some content out there.
Luckily, we can get some reads on some players who have been attempting to play this game, but making it so we can't read you is fairly scummy as well.

Your friend, danakillsu
/endrant

[danakillsu]

@ Ragnarokio
Your case is confusing to me. Granted you don't like my reasons for voting MarchHare. But when was thor saying that early scumhunting wasn't possible? How am I being defensive of thor in any way other than calling him a townread of mine?

[danakillsu]

@Ragnarokio

, what is your read on dana as of right now?

Mild suspicion, while noting that thor and dana are more likely scum if the other flips so.

@ Ragnarokio
Your case is confusing to me. Granted you don't like my reasons for voting MarchHare. But when was thor saying that early scumhunting wasn't possible? How am I being defensive of thor in any way other than calling him a townread of mine?

1) Thor and MarchHare specifically talked about early scumhunting as part of their exchange before. MarchHare was of the opinion that scumhunting was possible straight from the start of the game, He goes so far as to say he has pegged a lot of scum in the first five pages.

Thor takes the opposite side of the debate, saying that scumhunting has little value as far as catching scum goes until a little later into the game (late day 1, and day 2). He says that cases built before then are going to be weak, although clearly advocates early aggression.

2) You were against MarchHare during his argument with thor, when the reasons you were citing fit thor measurably better than MarchHare.

You said this:

I hate your repeated attempts to make us think we can't find scum on page x.

MarchHare said this:

Deep scum hunting comes on page one

You were basically attacking him for the opposite of something he said. This makes me think that you may have been attacking MarchHare because he was attacking thor, rather than anything MarchHare did. You ignored (or missed, I can't tell how much you're reading) my earlier post where I said:

Dana, MarchHare was advocating early scumtells, not denying them, your vote might better be placed on thor.

and the later post where i elaborated on that in more detail. You continuing the case on MarchHare, although maybe shifting the focus slightly (You only had three or so posts describing the case, and they all varied slightly), and spoke against the thor wagon. This makes me think you aren't too interested in what thor was doing, just in how you could attack MarchHare.

First of all, stop saying I ignored what you said. Disagreeing =/= ignoring. I actually defended my logic against what you were saying about MarchHare. But more importantly, you are the one who seems to have no idea who was on what side in the thor vs. MarchHare argument. You just admitted that thor clearly advocated early aggression and you know that MarchHare was in the business of derailing wagons that were not horrible for the time they formed, yet you try to say that MarchHare was advocating early scumhunting and thor was not. That just makes no sense, and calling me scummy for believing the opposite of your very confused and confusing position is ridiculous.

@ MarchHare
If you're referring to me not responding to this:

Dana, I tried to derail a weak wagon BECAUSE IT WAS A HORRIBLE FUCKING WAGON.

More votes on Reaper, please.

then that's pretty sad. It's one line. You said you tried to derail it because it was horrible. Good for you, anyone would say the same. Saying it doesn't make it so.

[danakillsu]

I'm currently Iso'ing people and narrowing down my scumspects.

Dana, could you share with us your feelings on MarchHare as the game progressed?

I have no idea > crazy active lurker > intentional content-less poster > scum pretending not to understand any of my points on him. Or at the very least scum not trying to understand my points on him.

I don't really get this, Marchhare's posts may be short but there's definitely content in them.

I honestly can't think of a better way to put it. It's kinda like active lurking except in a way that blatantly says he doesn't care about the town's chances of winning based on the amount of work he puts into his posts. I was trying to condense that a bit.

@ Ant_to_the_max
The way you spell stuff in that post makes me think it's not juice you're drinking. I appreciate your linking of my posts, but would like to see you try to prove your points on me.

ALRIGHT DANA

I still think that your case on MarchHare is invalid, but I can understand where you're coming from a little now, and you don't seem so scummy anymore, so I'm going to drop this one before it gets needlessly convoluted.

Backtracking, eh?

Lol. Must remind you of yourself with Mastermind of Sin, eh?

[danakillsu]

Mastermind, you're wrong. The RVS is where people generally prod one another and a random wagon comes up. then we may get some reads and some serious discussion is born out of it. Your vote is actually random whereas during the RVS they may be dumb reasons or mostly nonexistant but only semi random. If you let us know its random it diminishes its point even further. Given you did this after people had said noteworthy things is quite scummy. You have also so far managed to post no game related content. Why do you not want to comment on anything that's happened?

@Dana: MoS is definitely an active lurker. Any reason you're not concerned with him?

Not concerned with him? I haven't attacked him or anything, but I certainly haven't said I'm not concerned with him at all. Active lurking is fairly common on this site, so you can't necessarily attack all the active lurkers in the game at the same time. It's not easy to really put pressure on a bunch of people at once, so I've really been concentrating on the scummier active lurker MarchHare.

[danakillsu]

but but, MOS isnt even trying. March Hare is looking for scum. How's march scummier?

I'm really not liking MoS and MBF excusing their inactivity, by saying there's too much fluff. My current guess for the scumteam is them + dana.

Pfffff. I like how you didn't bother to respond to what I actually said and just drew the conclusions I knew you were going for anyway. You have nothing there but a presupposition.
I disagree that MarchHare is really looking for scum. He is not trying any more than MoS, he's just better at making it look good. Even after I said that his one-line posts were not helping anything, he continued to make them. How can you call that pro-town? March is scummier for reasons I have already stated. He actually has enough content in his posts to peg him as likely scum, whereas MoS just looks like someone that does that sort of thing all the time.

[danakillsu]

but but, MOS isnt even trying. March Hare is looking for scum. How's march scummier?

I'm really not liking MoS and MBF excusing their inactivity, by saying there's too much fluff. My current guess for the scumteam is them + dana.

Pfffff. I like how you didn't bother to respond to what I actually said and just drew the conclusions I knew you were going for anyway. You have nothing there but a presupposition.
I disagree that MarchHare is really looking for scum. He is not trying any more than MoS, he's just better at making it look good. Even after I said that his one-line posts were not helping anything, he continued to make them. How can you call that pro-town? March is scummier for reasons I have already stated. He actually has enough content in his posts to peg him as likely scum, whereas MoS just looks like someone that does that sort of thing all the time.

You're attacking him for playstyle reasons. There's nothing inherently scummy about one line posts. Just because you tell him its scummy does not make it so. March siad the MBF wagon was terribad. So other than him derailing a wagon and making 1-line posts (which isn't scummy) what is this content that incriminates him?

@RC: you didnt answer me. Can I join the alliance?

I can't even describe how bad this post is. On the other hand, despite the fact that you can go back and read what I have posted about MarchHare, thinking about it more has changed my mind. There probably are better people to vote for right now and not having to defend my arguments against misrep would have helped me realize that sooner.

unvote

Time to shop for a different scum candidate, since this guy's response to pressure apparently convinced no one but me.

[danakillsu]

UNVOTE: MoS
VOTE: Danakillsu

Ahahahaha. This is the most cowardly vote I've seen in any game of mafia. You apparently didn't think strongly enough that I was scum to vote until someone else agreed with you. Nice one.

@ ReaperCharlie
Yes, I said that Thor was town and asked if the random wagon was over. That's not an attempt to derail the wagon, it's a challenge to people to explain why it's not random or get off it. No one felt like doing the former.

[danakillsu]

Okay, I've been doing some iso work, and came up with this

PeregrineV

#0-4: Says nothing serious that I can tell. Unvotes Thor to keep people from hammering, supposedly, which wouldn't happen at that point anyway.
#5: Says he voted for pressure on Thor, which again makes little sense considering he said "but what about the beard?" when he voted him, which puts no pressure on Thor at all. This is ignoring the obvious fact that Thor is an experienced player who would not be intimidated by a large random wagon.
#6: Waffles on a Ragnarokio read.
#8: Gives an opinion that would have no great effect on the game anyway and feels the need to qualify it with "I may be wrong".
#9-10: Votes ReaperCharlie, which he seems to think is a joke, too. At best, it's a vote for someone that he's not happy with, not someone he thinks is scum.
#12: Basically admits he still has no scumreads and half-heartedly non-commits to a reread of the game.
#13: Votes MoS without giving a reason as far as I can tell.

Dat bad.

vote: PeregrineV

[danakillsu]

There is no D in danakillsu.

[danakillsu]

Also dana, why did you choose Per over ep?

I guess I have to admit gut is involved. But also, there's the fact that EP is willing to attack me despite the way it looks, and that seems pretty town to me.

[danakillsu]

Despite the way what looks?

This is the only thing I could find in your post that was about me and was not full of crap. Before I answer this, I have to deal with the rest of it, though. Please READ YOUR POST. OUT LOUD. TO YOURSELF. There is absolutely nothing besides this that is about me that uses any reasoning or could lead to any reasoning. You literally just assumed I am scum and thought "Hmm...how would scum sound doing this?" and just said I sounded like that. Nothing about WHY PeregrineV is not scum or WHY the thing I mentioned are not scumtells or WHY my points are minor, you just say they are and expect people to believe you. None of this is gonna stick, so you might as well just stop throwing it at me and hoping that just maybe it will.
To answer this question, though, what he's doing honestly doesn't look great and he even admitted it by saying he couldn't prove he wasn't just waiting for you to vote. It sounds really lame that he just "forgot" to vote earlier, but he doesn't care. That's a towntell, imo.

[danakillsu]

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

What the heck are you talking about? Because you're town, you have to believe RC when he says I'm scum? You naturally distrust everyone, but trust his opinions despite his lack of reasoning?

[danakillsu]

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

What the heck are you talking about? Because you're town, you have to believe RC when he says I'm scum? You naturally distrust everyone, but trust his opinions despite his lack of reasoning?

This:
1. There is nothing scummy about the sentiments in that statement.

This:
Bad things in this iso include: Complete nitpicking of points so minor they shouldn't even be mentioned, calling people out for scumtells that don't exist, using phrases like "half-heartedly non-commits to a reread of the game" which is obviously framing the situation in a favorable light to your case, and attempting to exude an aura of confidence even when under obvious duress, which is exactly what Andrius was doing (or at least attempting to do).

and this:
I mean, Andrius's PBPA was worse, obv, and I lynched him for it. But this one is still very terrible and I'm interested as to why CDB ignored it and instead confirm-voted on someone who's not that scummy in comparison.

I realize that you think RC's side of the argument is better than mine. But you didn't answer my question, which is whether you being town in fact MEANS you have to believe I'm scum via RC's arguments. Because that is literally what you were saying in that post.

If I thought you were scum, you'd feel the wrath of my mighty vote. So, no, I don't think that yet, but trust his opinions listed above.
But, please expand more on why he is wrong. Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again.

Ironically, you choose to use the word trust despite you saying that you did not trust anyone. But even more importantly, THAT LAST SENTENCE IS EXTREMELY SCUMMY. Why, you ask?
1) Because even if I could prove beyond a doubt that he was wrong, it wouldn't make him scum.
2) I don't particularly want anyone voting RC at this juncture.
3) I REALLY don't want to try to convince my top scumread to vote anyone (except himself, if that's allowed). You being convinced and voting someone would only make me think they were actually town.

[danakillsu]

@ PeregrineV
I don't want anyone voting RC because I don't believe he's scum.
Voting RC is not "agreeing with me". It's actually doing the opposite.
How what I've said makes your sentence scummy would, I think, be plain to see. If you say "Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again." and convincing you to vote him is not something I want to do, you're misrepping my purposes. If you're my top scum candidate, you're trying to get me to do something scummy by persuading you to vote someone else, which has no pro-town motivation. And back to this:

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

This is DEFINITELY saying that you have to believe I'm scum. Let's look at what happened here.
1) ReaperCharlie calls me scum, partially because of the way in which I called you scum.
2) I tell him that his points aren't going to stick because they don't use logic. Context will pretty clearly tell you that I'm saying his efforts to make me look like SCUM are not going to work.
3) You say why you're inclined to take his side. Your main reason is the town role you say you've been given. You say OTHERS MAY DO THE SAME, AND IF SO, THAT

IT MAY STICK

. In other words, if people take the same path you have, they will believe RC's arguments and think that I'm scum. I dare you to try to retcon your way out of that one, cause your words are pretty plain to see. So I ask you again: What about you being town and others being town WOULD make you AND them believe that RC is right and I am scum?

[danakillsu]

@mod

Votecount, please.

[danakillsu]

@ ReaperCharlie
It's what you've been doing all game, why stop now?

[danakillsu]

Apparently, I've gotten through to you on some level as to why I think you're scum and why you shouldn't think I am even if you're not scum. As to the rest of the points, I honestly don't feel like discussing your issues with them any more. I think what they say to others is really what matters, and I think most others will get them. To answer your questions in a basic way:
Yes, of course I get it. That's exactly my point. You're trying to get me to persuade you to do stuff, when I don't really care who you vote for unless it's yourself. I'm pretty sure you're scum.

No, believe me, it makes sense. You're trying to get me to contradict myself by calling you scum and then trying to get you to vote someone. That, in itself, is scummy.

Retcon (I believe) stands for Retroactively Contradict. It just means you can't change what you already said without looking even scummier.

The end of your post shows your intentions in this conversation very clearly. If simply arguing with you was going to make me scummy in your eyes regardless, then you were out to get me, which is exactly what I've been saying. And then you STILL didn't deal with the actual scummy logical error in the post I keep quoting. This time you tried to dodge it by saying that you were dealing with something else that RC said. But I wrote all of 3) out for a reason, and it explains clearly why your words are not JUST about RC's response to my case on you. And then there's this, the height of all fake scumhunting:

But, I can see how you would be worried about being perceived as scum, as I think that is the whole point of you post here.

Nobody WANTS to be perceived as scum. You can't use the fact that I'm defending myself against me, because scum gives up exactly as much as town does.
I am glad I've pressured more content out of you, though, since it should help the others make a decision about you.

[danakillsu]

Cool to see a little more action in this game. I will always be against alliances because they make Mafia lamer and don't help the town.

[danakillsu]

1. Natural alliances are based on legitimate trust, based on past actions, whereas artificial Alliances are based upon a simple principle and a mechanic.
2. Natural alliances don't require that their members all participate in bloc voting, whereas artificial Alliances are almost solely based upon this premise.
3. You don't have to have confidence in the alignments of the people in the Alliance. You have to have confidence in ratios and proven performances.

1. So your case for Natural Alliances is that you can get a townread on the players first. But your townread could easily be wrong. You've flip-flopped on whether a couple people should be in the alliance, proving that you don't even KNOW who you trust enough for this.
2. But they do require some things related to bloc voting in this game, possibly even the worst elements of it.
3. Huh? I think their performance will be related to their alignment. If you give scum the opportunity to mislynch town, they will do it, whether they are in an alliance or not.

Is that good enough for everyone? I just don't see how saying "let's make a club of people we like and have them not vote each other" could ever help the town. We need to be able to vote the scum, whether they're part of some makeshift alliance or not.

@ mikeburnfire
Why would you make a point of saying you're fine with a Thor lynch? He's not the leading wagon, his wagon has been on a downward trend, and you're voting him, so I think we could probably gather you kind of want him lynched without you telling us.

[danakillsu]

I can go for some Ragnarokio pressure. She sure hasn't been contributing much despite posting a decent amount earlier in the game. If anyone here hasn't read PeregrineV's iso, though, they REALLY need to.

[danakillsu]

@ mikeburnfire
Why would you make a point of saying you're fine with a Thor lynch? He's not the leading wagon, his wagon has been on a downward trend, and you're voting him, so I think we could probably gather you kind of want him lynched without you telling us.

[danakillsu]

unvote vote: mikeburnfire

Blatantly ignoring someone and then voting them is incredibly scummy.

[danakillsu]

We don't need an extension. At this rate, the person I'm voting will be lynched, and I'm okay with that.

LOOK AT THIS! HE ONCE AGAIN REFUSES TO DEAL WITH ANY REAL ISSUES AND REPEATS THAT HE WANTS ME LYNCHED! DON'T LET THIS SCUM GET AWAY WITH THIS! My vote won't be on a single-vote wagon if you people would wake up and vote mbf.

[danakillsu]

I don't need you to defend me, MoS. Dana is only making himself look worse by focusing on one non-issue. I haven't acknowledged him because I already addressed Thor.

I just read your iso AGAIN. You did not address my question in any way that I could see. Saying that I'm making myself look worse is definitely wishful thinking.

[danakillsu]

We don't need an extension. At this rate, the person I'm voting will be lynched, and I'm okay with that.

LOOK AT THIS! HE ONCE AGAIN REFUSES TO DEAL WITH ANY REAL ISSUES AND REPEATS THAT HE WANTS ME LYNCHED! DON'T LET THIS SCUM GET AWAY WITH THIS! My vote won't be on a single-vote wagon if you people would wake up and vote mbf.

What issues do you want him to deal with? What do you think town-MBF would do differently? Why wouldn't he be content with his top suspect being the current lynch?

How about the questions I keep asking him? How about a real case on someone in the game?
I think he would be attempting to contribute and not ignoring someone he supposedly thinks is scummy.
That's not the point of what I'm saying. He really hasn't said anything about me other than he thinks I'm scum and he wants me lynched.

[danakillsu]

If people ignore the obvious and refuse to vote mbf, then I will be voting Energetic Penguin, who is a null read for me. He's not incredibly pro-town, so he's not a BAD mislynch if he is one.

[danakillsu]

None of what people are saying about me makes any sense. They want to believe that last post was scummy, but can't explain why. When they try to explain, they say I want to give up my top scum read for a null read, which is obviously not true, since I said "IF NO ONE WILL VOTE MBF". And they also say that I have one suspect in the entire game, which is also not true, since my suspicions of PeregrineV have not gone away. There is nothing scummy about saying I'll lynch one person if people won't help me lynch another. If you want to lynch me for saying that, go ahead and jump on the scum-driven wagon. Just remember this:

But what dana said *WAS* actually very scummy, so I don't think this push is justified.

I think this speaks for itself. No explanation, no attempt to persuade, no nothing. I'm just "very scummy" and that's the end of it, according to him. Don't think about it, just lynch me. Poor OMGUS'ing scum.

[danakillsu]

Dana. Get this through your head: MBF is not getting lynched today.

Are you reading this game? The main reason people are attacking me is because I admitted that I'd be willing to lynch somebody else! I'm going to give it a little more time, and if nothing happens, I vote Energetic Penguin.

[danakillsu]

Alright, I guess it's time.

unvote vote: Energetic Penguin

[danakillsu]

I don't see how people can't tell how scummy dana's being. That vote on EP just reeks of opportunistic scum, imo. Also, my V/LA officially started yesterday so don't expect anything from me after this post. The only reason I'm posting is that it's 5:30 am and my party just ended. Was helping a friend who got sick from drinking too much, and now I'm crashing before getting up in 3 1/2 hours for a 4 hour drive.

lol. You guys just don't give up with the unbacked repetition, do you? I explained it beforehand, and I never changed my explanation. As others have said, voting anyone but myself or EP would be a waste of a vote. I know I would be a waste of a LYNCH, so that leaves EP.

[danakillsu]

Because the thor vote was from a relatively baseless wagon and I didn't feel like voting ant at the time.

Could you....explain this? I have no idea what you're saying. What you felt like at the time doesn't seem like a great reason for anything, but maybe the first part puts that in context.

[danakillsu]

vote: Danakillsu

The sudden shift from the dana wagon to the penguin lynch leads me to believe scum is here.

I've seen plenty of town wagons shifted to other town wagons. What makes you think this is what's going on this time? Also, since I couldn't have been the one shifting the wagon, how do YOU think scum managed to do it?

[danakillsu]

vote: mbf

Maybe that will get your attention enough? Apparently I'm one of your top suspects STILL, and you WON'T EVEN RESPOND TO MY QUESTIONS.

[danakillsu]

You managed to not really answer the second question. My vote wasn't originally on me, so it's not really a wagon SHIFT, per se. But it takes a lot more than that to get a wagon going. Nobody would be listening to me, since I was the other main wagon. So how do you think scum did it? Do you think the other scum were on EP?

[danakillsu]

Okay, that's a good explanation, but you get scum points for one thing there. Saying that you aren't going to vote someone because a wagon on scum probably won't be successful is really anti-town for obvious reasons. That's just saying "we can only lynch town Day 1 so who cares?".

[danakillsu]

Ugh. I can't be on the same wagon as PeregrineV. And mbf HAS stopped ignoring me at least, so

unvote vote: Ragnarokio

. It looks like you've pretty much folded here, and admitted by silence that your reasons for doing some things make little to no sense from a town perspective. That's good enough for me.

[danakillsu]

Well, I got prodded. I'm not really sure what to say. Ragnarokio can continue to try and explain it away, but the fact of the matter is that she's as much as admitted she didn't have good reasons for what she did, so can anybody give me one good reason not to lynch her?
I'm noticing MoS and ooba tunneling on me a bit, mostly the former, and I'm not really sure what that's about.

@ ooba
Was the stuff after your vote on me supposed to be an explanation of your vote? I didn't get that out of it at all.

[danakillsu]

@Dana: It's tough to explain but I'm just looking at who jumped on which wagons at what point of time/who they chose to attack/what they chose to comment on. It's vibe about associations. I think CDB is scum and you-scum with him makes sense, in a nutshell.

It's incredibly convenient that I can't defend against this at all. I sure hope you don't expect people to follow you on my wagon.

@ mbf
Actually, that's not bad. I'll take some time and reconsider it.

[danakillsu]

Okay, I looked back over some things and I'm pretty sure that mbf is town now, but I'm still thinking Ragnarokio is scum.

@Anttothemax
Do you have any thoughts on why you keep forgetting to vote Magua? Seems to me that it might be the fact that Magua isn't obvious scum. I have a null read on him.

[danakillsu]

For the record, I think Ragnarokio is town, so we agree on that. Now, I re-ask my question: Do you think I'm scum?

But according to Thor, you're still voting her. Why?

@ mbf
I do think you're town, but not necessarily that you're right. Your information doesn't exactly seem cut and dried, even if I assume you're confirmed town.

[danakillsu]

I agree with Magua that the game was stagnating, I'd even said as much myself prior to his vote switchup.

Dana didn't even comment upon my blatant and awkward vote switch to him - I'm happy with that vote now.

So I'm not frantic to get someone's vote off me, and that makes me scum? You should know that it's my policy not to try to defend against a case that isn't there. I know you're a better player than this. Right now, you're just trying to make crap stick to me.

[danakillsu]

Oh, crap. I was about to pull out the evidence that I had and then I realized it was an ongoing game. Finding evidence of that in a completed game might be harder.

[danakillsu]

Does one game really make a meta case?

By the by, why are you still on Rag. MBF looks pretty town to me and you don't have an alternate sad lurk-sack on the last lynch to pursue? Why is she best?

I think the things I said in my conversation with Rag still apply. She looks like scum giving up and then lurking rather than your run-of-the-mill lurker.

Anyway, I somehow managed to find one thing that should help you see my meta:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 1#p2218571

[danakillsu]

So, first you were so unconcerned about his vote that you didn't say anything about it, but now that he's pegging you for that, you lash out and make it personal? Sounds like frustrated scum to me.

No... I don't see what I did as lashing out or making it particularly personal, although I wouldn't have necessarily said that to a VI. The reason for the change in behavior is obviously that he actually seemed to think that he had a case on me once I said nothing.

[danakillsu]

Dana simply isn't scumhunting.

Pffff. This is one of those things people can say whenever they want, because it's really a matter of opinion. From my point of view, people just aren't paying attention to the scumhunting I'm doing.

[danakillsu]

Isos 18, 23, 24, and 49 are a few examples of scumhunting on my part. I haven't gotten much support for any of those attempts.

[danakillsu]

Can we just all get clear on the fact that I am male, please?
More Ragnarokio votes would be appreciated. In fact, Thor, I'm surprised you for one are not voting her already.

[danakillsu]

PeregrineV - Why the dana vote? Who's case are you agreeing with on her being scummy?

Well, if you look at Dana day1 and Dana day2, do you see a difference? We have more information to work with (all of day1), yet his activity has decreased in both quality and quantity. I feel like it could be because with 2 dead town, scum doesn't have to work as hard? No hard evidence yet.

How do you see a decrease in quantity and quality as compared to the rest of the players? I'm not seeing that at all. Also, assuming there was one, that's a pretty lame argument for a couple of reasons. With 2 dead town, scum would be working harder, since there would be a greater likelihood of them getting lynched. But even if you assume you're right about that....let's say we had 2 dead scum already somehow. I can pretty easily see you saying that I'm scum trying to fly under the radar now that his scumbuddies are dead by posting as little as possible. I don't think what you're saying here is remotely accepted site-wide.

[danakillsu]

For example- what do you think of Thor? What do you think of Magua? What do you think of Mikeburnfire?

It's not like I haven't said anything about the three of them, and I've even given my read specifically on mbf, so I won't be saying anything more about him. Thor is a town read of mine. His play is mostly consistent with what I've seen from town-Thor in the past, and it's generally helpful to the town. Magua is pretty null for me, and I think Magua's normally pretty difficult to read. He might be slightly toward scum.

[danakillsu]

Hey... what do you know? I finally got around to checking this, and I have 19 posts in 10 pages today (not including this one), whereas I had 41 posts in 24 pages yesterday. That's 1.9 posts per page today compared to 1.71 posts per page yesterday. Note that I'm not trying to use this to say that I'm posting a ton of content, or more content than somebody else, just to dispel the notion that as compared to the other players, my posting has dropped in frequency.

[danakillsu]

Well, okay. Magua's not great but not bad for a lynch today. I guess it's between him and Ant, so

unvote vote: Magua

(L-1, I checked).
If someone hammers and he's town, I guess we've got scum anyway. I now await ooba's case.