Mini 1159 - Powerrox93's Mini Normal I (Game Over)

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/hordes candy.

Vote: crazy

cos he's awesome~

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Um.

Vote: crazy

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;_;

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TO: it is because your good morning template only had two slots that you are suspected of being scum.
Why would you respond to your own greeting?

Suspicious ocelot is suspicious.

Vote: TO

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Jase: I'd say RVS is over. Voting Stefan randomly - and late like you did makes no sense.

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@Surprise_Carcinogen: Quite simply, townies are not concerned with convincing people that they are sincere - they're too busy being paranoid and distrustful. Only scum come out and want to be trusted. That's the difference.

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FoS: Surprise Carcinogen

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Jase, I wasn't speaking to you. I was speaking to surprise.
Tarson, your arguments and statements have been pointless.

Frankly, the idiocy in this thread coming from those who speak English as a second language [I'm ESL too, so don't hate.] not very well, to idiotic arguments between 4 of you makes this game not interesting. There's nothing to argue about because the arguments are idiotic. OMG. Do I sound haughty? I'm sorry. I'm just not interested because of the idiocy.

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Also, can we please be more friendly with each other? I don’t like the aggressive tone of some posts here. We’re here to have fun playing Mafia, not for jumping each other’s throat. If someone isn’t good at writing in English, he/she probably doesn’t mean to offend you. Be tolerant and ask questions if you don’t understand anything. (actually I’m feeling ridiculous for having to say this…)

My post was totally out of character for my person, heh. I'm just fed up with trying to make sense of the foolishness that was happening prior to that post. I came off of a hard day at work, sat down to read yet again - and the idiocy overwhelmed me and my anger leftover from work poured into my text. I'm the most tolerant person you'll find. My apologies to the thread, but can we clean up the thread a little?

Also, English is my second language. I was not condemning him for it. Read my post again, will you?

Questions galore!

[L]

: What exactly do you find scummy about Surprise_Carcinogen’s view on things? Why are you (still) voting tarsonisocelot?

Surprise_carcinogen has made posts that hint that he knows the lay of the land, and also stated incorrect things about mafia theory. Those two combined make me suspect him, hence the FoS.

TO, on the other hand, has had a laid back affect, casually throwing out questions. From that first [second?] day, she set off my alarm bells. I voted her promptly - and I am just watching her for more confirmation, which she has been providing.

Also, I am a she, not a he.

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Bah, forgot the first part of my post. This precedes the rest.

L: Same as above. You've been ignoring the entire Jase wagon. First, Why? Second, want opinion etc.

Jase: My opinion on your wagon is that it rose out of nothing and sits there, being piled on, for no valid, logical reasons. I do not see a reason to place my vote there. Not only that, but my intuition was telling me you aren't it.

Not sure why [L] felt the need to answer on Me=Weird's behalf just now?

I was speaking on no one's behalf. I was speaking of surprise_carcinogen, and also explaining why I suspect surprise_carcinogen - primarily because he misconstrued a prime concept of mafia.

What valid points have been brought up on Jase's wagon?

L/Weird: Did you two even pay the slightest bit of attention to the context of that exchange? Good grief. Here's a quick summary of how that went down.

Not really. I was speaking on my suspicion of surprise_carcinogen. See above.

@Surprise_Carcinogen: Quite simply, townies are not concerned with convincing people that they are sincere - they're too busy being paranoid and distrustful. Only scum come out and want to be trusted. That's the difference.

How are townies supposed to even fight against their own mislynch if they don't convince some other townies that they are trustworthy? How do they get their suspects wagoned or their townreads to not be lynched? This doesn't make sense to me. Being town seems to be more about working out where to place your trust than just not having any.

I never commented on townies fighting against their own mislynch. My comment is clearly pointing out the dichotomy between scum and townies - those who are vying for sincerity and those who are busy jumping at shadows. It is true that through the development of the game townies gain more trust in certain individuals…but most times it is the scum they are trusting.

I prefer to play by getting town reads on people, but never trusting them. Do you play differently, TO?

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In my opinion reaction-tests are not scummy because they provide conversation for town. It's a pro-town move, if anything.

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unvote

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It was a false statement.

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@jase: Just because I made one false statement does not make all of my statements false. The wagon was built up out of all the crap that was a headache to read in the first 3-4 pages. Everything was illogical. It's as simple as that. People were hemming and hawing over semantics and fluff, nothing was being focused on.

My reasoning for making such an obviously false statement was to goad surprise carcinogen.

Anyone else find me suspicious? I'm waiting.

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yabba's post seems a bit off. Slight FoS on him.

You vote me for giving up and stating that I know that many townies belive I am scum?

Well, giving up is something that you shouldn't do, and that scum are marginally more likely to do. Also, it wasn't "many townies", when you said that, it was mainly me and imaginality, and kinda andrew. And I just read that over, and

how would you know they're townies!?

I think I've got a scumslip here.

I don't believe you. If it were true, why not say so right away?

Because that would make it useless?
crazypianists seems a bit townier.

I agree that that was a pretty serious scumslip.

Vote: StefanB

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@tO: I unvoted you because I am ambivalent about your scumminess. That's enough reason to unvote.

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[L], I'm voting for you. If you want, you can refute my case. Regardless I want more votes for you.

Well, frankly, you've seen me play as scum. I am much....shall we say....different. My town approach is to analyze more... but this game started out so disgustingly that I haven't even done that. I'll be honest - I haven't been involved in the game the way I wanted to be. I'm frustrated. But I'm not giving up on the game because I'm the type to see things through to their end.

Your case against me is somewhat laughable because it is untrue. Let me point out the ways:

VOTE: [L]
She's been doing a ton of talking without throwing around suspicion at all. This is particularly scummy behavior. The vote was useless essentially the entire game as it hasn't really been accompanied by much pressure and the unvote came out of nowhere. Also on my scumlist (in no particular order) are Jase, andrew94, Surprise_Carcinogen, and StefanB.

"ton of talking": This is laughable because I have 15 posts; two of which had content, and the rest only consisted of votes or up to 3 lines max. That's not a ton of talking by anyone's standards. Personally, I'd lynch people for doing as little talking as me.

"throwing around suspicion": When one throws around suspicion, they are scum. Townies cast suspicion on those they suspect, not randomly.

"vote was useless": My vote on TO was not useless, because it was not a pressure vote. I truly believe she is scum. Currently, I had to remove my vote to see how she behaves. I'm somewhat ambivalent right now, on her.

"unvote came out of nowhere": Yes, it would seem so. But I unvoted her in order to regroup my thoughts and see how she behaves. And saying that this is what I am doing is inconsequential even if she reads it.

Why are StefanB and SC on your scum list? They happen to be on mine as well.

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@Yabba: I pondered the idea of StefanB's scumslip because it seemed so obvious; to ignore it and move on to other things would be avoiding something too obvious. The fact that his English is the way it is is likely playing into our favor.

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yabba: Why do you find me to be unlikely scum? Or what is scummy about me?

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I am in my heart convinced you are scum. My head, however, makes me ambivalent. Simple, really.

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Zdnek: I have

NOT

been swinging. I have voted two people.

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I'd recommend you read my past games. I'm more "townie" when I'm scum. Thanks for the TO vote.

Vote:tarsonocelot

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@unclePain: The best way to explain it is that when I'm town, I appear scummy because I keep my analyses to myself. When I'm scum I look super townie because I make an effort to look townie, to convince others that I am town.

@redtail: You took it too far, your point is too far gone to be simple. I am simple. I still suspect your player spot.

FoS: redtail

@jase: I did not fabricate my case against SC.

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I did answer that question. When I said I skimmed over the foolishness and didn't see anything worth attention, yet a wagon popped up on you, I believed it was invalid. Do you think my prognosis was incorrect?

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@Uncle Pain: No thanks.

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Yes. I'm not a fan of giving the scum something to work with.

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Just vote me stefan, since you believe I'm scum. Don't worry about what others think of you - when you find scum, you vote for them. Don't hesitate - that's scummy, as you've already stated. But it goes beyond that. Scum tend to show caution more than town.

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Oh really, jase? I'm scum for telling Stefan to put his money where his mouth is? To vote ME?

Your logic is erroneous, lol. I'm scum because I'm pushing my own lynch?

This is why I have no interest; things like this.

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I have been defending myself, jase. Where do you see a 'lack'? Pose the issues I have not defended against. No one has brought legitate things to the table vs me.

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I am not giving up - nor am I pushing for my own lynch.

Rather, I was telling stefan to put his money where his mouth is and not just point fingers. His past few posts have cast suspicion on me without acting. I spelled my intentions out - how did you misinterpret them? That was my point about your ill use of logic.

I was being honest when I said I was testing surprise carcinogen. I did not fabricate my case. I've never once contradicted myself, yet you're making it look like I did, to the casual reader who isn't actually reading what you're writing.

Sorry, I didn't understand your use of english in this sentence: "You also haven't responded to why your theory disagreement is a valid point towards anything ever at all in any way." Please clarify?

I agree, others should also point out if I have not addressed any issues - but because you were the one to claim that I have not covered all issues, I expect you to fully support your statement.

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@zdnek: I was not pushing for stefanb to vote me - how di you also misunderstand this? Or were you skimming and reading jase's mistake and just sheeping? I was telling stefan to put his money where his mouth is, since he keeps casting suspicion on me. His scummy behaviour was that he was being super cautious.

@Me=weird: I am a townie.

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And you'll see what I said is true.

Read my past games.

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I don't have any powers, except deduction.

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How is that vague?! I am a vanilla townie! Good god man!

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Mmm. Did not know those show up in this setup.

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My suspicions with TO began on day one, with [her?] wifom-y:

Hi andrew,
I'm only a serial killer in your dreams.
My name means Ocelot of Tarsonis.
Question marks are your friend, yes?
<3 TO, the cannibal

I really didn't like this banter. It's obvious why, but people of this manner tend to be the ones who joyfully exclaim post-game "But I even crumbed!" This continues with [her?] next post.

andrew94 is onto something but not for the reasons he thinks. tarsonisocelot's greeting to townies and mafia is not the mark of a serial killer. It's the sign of a mafioso who's thinking only in terms of town and mafia, rather than a townie who's considering all possible enemies. (Also the 'mafia scum' seems a bit forced when he could just say 'mafia', clearly trying to distance himself a bit with that phrasing.)

Vote: tarsonisocelot

As for yabbaguy, StefanB's question is about as useful as the 'are you carrying illegal drugs?' questions on custom forms. "Why yes, StefanB, I am scum." But he's right that yabbaguy's concern about being a possible lynchee is a bit odd. One to keep an eye on.

Or there were only two [insert faction here] slots in the template text "Good morning [Group A] and [Group B]!".

Serial killers are unlikely to respond to greetings anyway, being of an antisocial nature for the most part.

Question won't get a usefully truthful answer sure, but it could create an interaction to look at later.

Nota Bene: I'm female.

By saying what people should expect serial killers to do, [she?] is in effect excusing herself to be as playful and engaging as she wishes. No need to point out that the worry of someone saying post-game "But I was so obvious!!" is sticking in my craw.

As you watch the rest of [her?] posts, [she?] has the air of one who is decidedly detached from the game. [Her?] posts are consistently fluff-filled as a pillow, and rarely accusatory. When yabba and others challenge her lack of scumhunting, she begins to "hunt", by writing up a PbPA. A lot of her points are still fluffy - most are regurgitations of the observations others made prior to her posting. None are original and new. AKA barnacle'ing with flair, with some accusatory points making their way into her analysis.

It was here when she began querying me - to which I responded but never got any pushback from her. That's the mark of scum who ask questions to be seen asking questions.... but since they already know the answer they aren't interested in searching deeper. I reached my point of ambivalence with her when she started behaving differently - and unvoted. I've since revoted because now that others see similar things to what I am seeing it bolsters my point of view.

These reasons are they for which I am voting TO.

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You really are choosing to misunderstand - Zdenek.

Mine was a clear statement showing that I thought StefanB was scummy, that I was telling him not to be so cautious, NOT - "Here, just vote me already if you're going to choose to accuse me. /roll over on back like turtle"

Clearly, he replaced out after my challenge. Stop being bullheaded for a moment Zdenek.

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@Jase: No.

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Jase: "If that's what you think is happening why not pursue a case because that's obviously scum motivated isn't it?"

To that. Did you already forget the only question you asked prior to my answer? Or are you just questioning to be seen questioning?

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[L] pushing a 'tarsonisocelot is SK' alternative to his wagon makes me feel surer about the scum case on [L].

Unvote; vote [L] (L-1)

Am I pushing the case? Or am I explaining why I voted TO? Think about it.

Oh that's it! I'm explaining why I suspect TO! That's right!

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At this point imaginality stinks to high heaven of scum.

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[L] your arrogance isn't helping your case right now.

Where do you see this supposed arrogance?

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@Jase: No to both questions.

tarsonisocelot: OMGUS, has not pointed out anything others did not point out prior to her vote. Bandwagoner.
Zdenek: Pretty null.
crazypianist1116: Leader of my wagon, I'm almost convinced he is town, though.
Uncle Pain: Pretty convinced he actually thinks I'm scum.
Me=Weird: Same as Uncle Pain - pretty convinced he actually thinks I'm scum - but some of it seems fabricated.

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@imaginality: I get that sk hunting is what I appear to be doing. But my thought of her being an sk is based entirely on her words. It isn't based on wild conjecture by me; I hope you can see that.

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I was telling the truth, every step of the way. I was constantly misrepped and you guys fell for it. Most likely tarsonocelot will be killed if she isn't scum.

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Uncle pain: I never said I didn't want to play townie. Townie is my favorite role, and I hate being scum. misrepped yet again. My frustration with this game was that there was a ton of stupidity for the first 5 pages.