Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[Exe]

/confirm

[Exe]

Vote: Amrun

I am not making the same mistake as last game >.>

[Exe]

now whos going to claim as dalek so we can have some fun?

EXTERMINATE. EXTERMINATE!

Rofl. Good stuff.

Anywho (pun intended)

I am sticking with my Amrun-scum read!!!!!11

[Exe]

It serves the Exe site-wide wincon of GETTING MALICIOUS REVENGE!!!

Also, I so called you as scum, so if I get a scumread on you this time I'm sticking with it hardcore.

[Exe]

No more talking me out of it >.>

[Exe]

/confirm

Glad so many of you paid attention to the voting rules.

And speaking of the rules, I fully expect everyone to read them all. None of that 'hehehe I never read rules' bullshit, because you all knew this would have special mechanics, and not knowing them is extremely anti-town at best. So I'd like to nip that crap in the bud.

Stop trying so hard. You're not being pro-town, you're pointing out the obvious.
Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a

Vote: Player

to show who we are suspicious of. I see no reason why people are being so jumpy about it.

@GreyICE: How exactly are you saying we would put someone at L-1, seeing as the votes are just "Lynch" or "No Lynch"...?

Also, @

Mod:

In the rules it says that the first nominations are revealed...will we know who everyone nominated? Or just the top candidates?

[Exe]

You scumhunt and interact, once you feel confident in a scum-read of some sort, then you vote for the lynch phase to start.

It's not rocket science. Treat it like it's mafia until it isn't mafia.

Here's the other plan:

Once we get to lynch phase, the nominee's each have ONE post.

This post should be formatted as follows:

List of players in a tiered format from most scum to most town, or otherwise.
Followed by a case for why they shouldn't be lynched (or, why the other

should

be).

For now,

Unvote, Vote: Kcda

Bad vibes from this one.

P-Edit: MrTrow, I have no clue what that sentence is supposed to mean.

[Exe]

Omg are you dense?

Vote for who you find scummy.
Ever heard of an FoS?

I know the rules. You just don't know how to read

[Exe]

Sorry, totally forgot this game >.>

Amrun feels wishy-washy, especially with her last post. Not liking that at all.

Something in my gut says that Kcda is scummy, but I can't place what. I do <3 gut reads though.

GreyICE seems obvtown so far, though I've never seen GreyICE as scum so I have no clue how good he'd be >.> His case on Ranger is solid though.

Particularly here:

ME: Insert Obligatory Refusal To Answer Pointless Questions Here
GROUP A: Vote: Ranger for refusing to answer pointless questions
GROUP B: Vote: Group A for thinking not answering questions is scummy

There, now that's done with. Can we get on with the game now?

This is a joke clearly based on an ongoing game, so I can't directly say how I feel about that part, but what I can say is why the hell does Ranger ask for us to "get on with the game" when he contributes nothing that could possible move the game forward?
This single post is massively scummy, and combined with the fact that he barely has posted, I'd say we caught scum #1.

Vote: Ranger

[Exe]

Overall, I feel we don't have much content to work with, yet;

^^

You think it's smart to tunnel on someone for one post alone?

Did I in any way say this was the case?

[Exe]

Why is everyone ignoring Ranger? I don't understand.

[Exe]

Therefore: We either have two scum, both with time machines. OR three scum, with less than three time machines between them.

I don't understand where you got this assumption from...?

[Exe]

Ghostwriter, we should play LoL together sometime.

Ranger completely avoids my point. I am dead-confident in my top scumsuspect being Ranger.

Doombunny is playing extremely passively, though that's basically already been brought up. He'll be high on my list.
Kcd still just reads gut-scummy to me.
Amrun seems pretty much identical to her last game with me, in which I called her as scum. I need to check her meta to see if she always plays the same, though.
Still waiting on Chrono to answer where he got such a specific scum-team assumption. Also waiting on Chrono to actually post more than 1 post.

Compared to a previous experience with Ghostwriter, this GW seems pretty much obvtown.
GreyICE, question: are you trying a different strategy than normal, in your opinion?

P-Edit: GreyICE, are you perhaps referring to Chrono's super-assumptions regarding the scumteam?

[Exe]

Also, I have to agree that Kcd and Amrun are most likely not scum together. I don't see their interaction as scum-v-scum.

[Exe]

You're running dangerously close to calling looking town a scumtell.

FALSE.

I found you scummy, not townie. I bit my tongue against my better judgement, and went with the group-mentality. I don't think you were particularly pro-town D1 then, so I am DEFINITELY not calling being "pro-town" a scumtell.

Also, I do not like the implication here that assumes you are pro-town this game as well. You're presenting a false truth (that you were very pro-town in Execution mafia) in order to both discredit my read AND suggest that I should find you townie again.

This combo just moved you further up my scumlist. You're making me much more confident in my suspicions. And let me tell you, I am not going to be fooled twice.

@Tragedy: Are you even reading his posts? He's scumhunting and pushing useful lines of inquiry.

[Exe]

@Grey: I have to admit I missed some of those holes. I guess I glossed over the key details in Chrono's post >.>. Your analysis is pretty much spot-on with my opinion on Chrono in general though. Attempt to appear pro-town is pretty much what I see from him.

Amrun: There's nothing to "get over." I don't understand why you're so eager to shove it in my face that OTHER people thought you were town. That's pretty much 100% irrelevant to the fact that

I

found you scummy then, and

I

am feeling the same way now. So basically, LIKE I SAID, you are addressing a completely DIFFERENT issue than I am, and using it to paint my argument in a bad light.

@Ranger: You're missing the point. Your joke was an attempt to suggest we move forward in discussion, however

you did not give us any contribution to discussion

. Essentially, you're doing exactly what Chrono is doing: attempting to appear pro-town by calling for relevant discussion, without actually giving any relevant discussions.
Also, your apology for your absence shows that you're clearly more concerned with making peace to notice the real issue, which is a scumtell in my book.

Ranger & Amrun for top 2 scum? Yes please.

[Exe]

Just got prodded. I swore I typed up a post at some point, but apparently I never actually posted O.o will put up some stuff tomorrow morning though.

[Exe]

You know what.

I have nothing new to contribute. I am still confident that the scum lie in Amrun, Ranger, Chrono, and Kcd, with only one of Kcd and Amrun being scum.

And other than that, I see a whole lot of noise.

[Exe]

And Chrono still isn't reading. Lulz

[Exe]

It's Easter weekend and my mother misses me. In other words, V/LA this weekend >.>

[Exe]

So.

Chrono is obvscum.
Ranger is probscum.

Other scum may be doombunny. It's just gut but there's something about his posts that reads off to me. Maybe I'll do an ISO later to see if there's something more concrete than gut.
In fact, his last post seems like a lot of noise generation. The entire accusation of Kcd doesn't sound like "Kcd = scum," but rather "Kcd = useless," and he never actually makes any argument that suggests that Kcd's actions are scum-like. I'd put him as the most likely 3rd scum.

Kcd's posts are distracting. I definitely can't place them as scum, but they seem to just be nonsensical half the time, and it's resulting in a lot of noise.

I think I am fine with

Vote: Lynch

I'd like to see a flip at this point.

[Exe]

Stupidity or not, he's not putting in effort, which is scummy. He's not trying to scumhunt, he's trying to commit as little time or effort as possible while appearing to scumhunt.

[Exe]

I'm sorry for assuming that you can make conclusions on why something is scummy yourself rather than having to spell it out.

This is the scum's favorite tool though. It's MUCH safer to point out something that might be interpreted as suspicious, and then follow up on OTHERS' interpretations of it, rather than calling it suspicious from the get-go.

[Exe]

Chrono
Ranger
Doom
Amrun

[Exe]

I actually won a game as scum by spending all of D1 tunneling on my scumbuddy, eventually polarizing the town. The best part was we were a 2-man team only, and it worked. Good times.

However, Kcd v. Amrun does not look like that in the least, mostly because of the players involved. Neither side of the argument looks the way I would expect either player to handle a contrived debate.

Long story short, you're avoiding the issue.
You're in fact doing just the same as what you accuse Amrun of doing: you're spending more time on "they both could be scum" than scumhunting.
So Zinger is still as scummy as Ranger. Check.

Also, Zinger, your case really doesn't make any sense. Why would Amrun-scum be so concerned with guaranteeing that Kcd and herself cannot both be scum? In what way does "we can't both be scum" imply a scum-agenda? Especially when she doesn't really focus on making Kcd the "must be scum" out of the two of them.

Longer story shorter: you're really just trying to appear to be scumhunting.

[Exe]

Kcd, why are you posting in random bits of incoherent thought?

It's really kinda...


Annoying...

>.>

Nice ass-umptions exe.

Amrun-scum would be concerned with guaranteeing that Kcd and herself cannot both be scum because it would mean that if one of them flipped scum the other would look like town. I thought I had explained that pretty well.

AHA.

But, your case resulted in "Amrun is now scummy" NOT "Amrun and Kcd together are now scummy"

Your premise here is complete bullshit. You're making argument, and concluding another. It's pure nonsense.

You used an argument for an Amrun-Kcd connection to call Amrun scum. That's crap.

[Exe]

And calls me out on it. Yet when GW does the same thing in posts 429 and 436, he ignores it completely. Care to explain?

1. I have a town read on GW.
2. You're mudslinging.
3. Oh wait, that's all I wanted to say.

[Exe]

There seems to be bit of a case on Doombunney9 which I disagree with. His early post was misinterpreted - where he said the town should talk about things other than the game mechanics. People took this as 'the town should'nt talk about game mechanics at all' which is not what he meant (I think). The other accusation is buddying but I don't see it to be honest.

This completely skips

my

case on DB. This guy isn't reading any more closely than Chronopie. Congratulations, you've officially maintained my scum-read from Chrono, and also managed to get some connection points to DB in the process.

1. Yeah, because people who are pro-town NEVER do anything scummy and even if they did, it should be completely ignored because there's absolutely no way they can be scum! Good reasoning there.
2. Erm, how exactly? Because I'm saying you're only picking out the things you want to see? And this isn't legit because...?

This post was terribad. I'm going to have to rethink my stance on you.

1. Except that GW's post doesn't read like your posts, because his actually appear pro-town. Try again.
2. LOL
2.2 I have

NEVER

in my

entire

mafia career seen a town player, when accused of doing something scummy, say "But X did it too! Why is no one suspecting him!" It is honestly one of the strongest scumtells from my opinion, and not only did you commit it, but you also made the CRAPPIEST attempt at deflecting.

Also, you're flailing now. I think I've got some scum under my thumb

You used an argument for an Amrun-Kcd connection to call Amrun scum. That's crap.

Why not? Amrun is the one who willingly attached herself to Kcda at the hip (as did Kcda, but to a lesser extent).

Are you even reading my case? Connection tells do not imply alignment. Connections imply connections, which can later be used if we get alignments. Zinger however, made a case for "Amrun and Kcd seem connected" and then concluded that it made Amrun scummier. This. Makes. No. Sense.

1. So? What does that have to do with anything? You're still scumhunting this game, right?
2. What is that supposed to mean? It looks like Doombunny is trying to engage you on what he sees as a contradiction. Why is that mudslinging?

You completely dodged the issue, Exe.

Ok so first of all, why the FUCK are you defending DB for him? That is so beyond anti-town, it's not even funny. Even if somehow you were right (which, you're clearly not) you should be letting Doombunny handle accusations aimed at him.
Second of all, your response to number 1. is just posturing. Try harder please.
And see my above argument for what mudslinging is. Doombunny is doing it. Stop trying to save him.

Updated top list:

Maxous
Zinger
Doombunny

Amrun is still somewhere near the top. I can't get a solid town-read on her.
RC is inching his way up to the top with his insistence on defending pretty much everyone.

[Exe]

2.2 I have NEVER in my entire mafia career seen a town player, when accused of doing something scummy, say "But X did it too! Why is no one suspecting him!" It is honestly one of the strongest scumtells from my opinion, and not only did you commit it, but you also made the CRAPPIEST attempt at deflecting.

THIS IS MUDSLINGING.

Herp. Derp.

[Exe]

Also, in regards to defending: you defended Doombunny AND Zinger, and then applauded GW for saying we shouldn't lynch the two replacements...that's effectively 3 whole scummy people who you completely deflected the suspicion off of.

[Exe]

LOL Dictionary definitions from Doombunny. You really are flailing.

[Exe]

Oh and Doombunny:

YOU AND GW DIDN'T DO THE SAME THING. HERP DERP.
Your attempt to pin suspicion on him is mudslinging.

Your COVERUP about making it seem like I am ignoring tells on other players, is noted.

GW is town, and it's pretty much painfully obvious.
You on the other hand, not so much. You're only slightly less scummy than Chrono and Zinger.

[Exe]

Busy weekend, like mine usually are.

Content later hopefully, but skimming I don't see much in favor of strongly changing my reads. I still say we are ready for a flip.

[Exe]

Alright, so here's what I have to say.

I'm still seeing Max, Doom, and Zinger as the obvious top 3.

My whole Ghostwriter-ignoring thing is just that I don't feel like doing a more detailed reread on one of my town reads when I am ready for a flip.
Here's the deal. Even if GW's actions are similar to Doombunny's, his overall play has been far more pro-town, and he's not going to be in my top 2 or 3 reads anyways. And so, seeing as those are the main ones which matter, I see no reason to go overanalyzing D1 tells when I am confident in my top 3.

Tomorrow, after a flip, I guarantee you I will reanalyze each player and determine whether or not flips & associative tells need to change my read on GW. However, at this stage of the game, I see no reason for this.

Let's see a lynch.

[Exe]

I am willing to hammer to lynch, but I think we really need to agree on who's in the first spot, at least, to prevent scum from putting two townies up there that nobody really wants lynched. It appears that that person is Zinger from the last couple of pages; if everyone else agrees then I'll hammer.

Yeah, last game where we tried this, scum controlled the vote every damn time.

If scum put two terrible reads at the top, it'll be obvious.

Let everyone vote the way they want. This way, we can analyze votes. If you polarize everyone, you remove accountability for anything.


@GreyICE: That's why I love playing mafia with you.

[Exe]

Alright so Zinger voted for himself, and his last post was huuuuge AtE. Not to mention, Kcd as a second choice is not even a contest. Zinger is who should hang.

FoS

Maxous for taking Zinger (number 2 on your claimed list) off of your top 2. In fact, you took 2 of your top 3 out of your actual vote list. Care to explain why?

Is MrTrow actually here? I feel like his list was randomized because GreyICE as a top 2 is lulz.

[Exe]

Also, forgot to say P-Edit, but I was ninja'd by both of you.

[Exe]

GreyICE and I are on the same wavelength this game, lol.

[Exe]

I explained my read on Maxous. Both he and his predecessor gave only cursory reads and missed major points. They both attempt to give the illusion of scumhunting without actually contributing anything.

A counterquestion for you Amrun:
In your ISO post 57 you said your suspicions of Smarg had culminated in him being your #1. You seemed pretty sure at the time.
In your post 62 however, he's back to only 4th on your list without much reasoning for the drop.

Was there any reason he dropped? It reads a lot like you forgetting the person you were attacking at the time...

[Exe]

Maxous is making the RIDICULOUS assumption that Mafia have no information regarding the flavor.

LOL Tasky would TOTALLY make a gamebreaking mod-error by not giving scum fake-claims. RIGHT.

Also, as scum, if I received the townie role-pm name, I would ABSOLUTELY use it over claiming "Vanilla townie" just so that people like you might somehow think that makes me town.

I don't even know what to think of this. Maxous' position on "omg scum would never know the term" makes so little sense, I almost wonder if we're dealing with a VI here.

[Exe]

I agree 100% with Smarg, except that we shouldn't just lynch Kcd if his results can't be confirmed. There is entirely the possibility of a roleblocker. Also, there's a good chance he'll be killed after that claim.

Kcd, you should consider using your time machine tonight to kill someone in the future who you think is scummy. I am not sure of this, but there's the possibility that your kill will resolve itself before a kill on you, thereby guaranteeing that at least the scum can't stop you from attempting your kill. Idk though, there are obvious negatives (like if for some ridiculous reason they leave you untouched tonight, you may be wasting your kill on a player that will be dead later).

Either way, just think outside the box with your abilities. At this point, stupid voting has forced a claim out of you long before I think you should've had to, and so you'll have to come up with any ways possible to get use out of that role.

[Exe]

Mod:

what would happen if the second place in votes had been tied between two players?

[Exe]

Nope. He should've known better than to claim. Zinger would've been going even if Kcda never made a closing statement.

No one disputed my case against Kcda, and I still don't think anyone has. Him claiming has absolutely nothing to do with the voters of Kcda. Even Kcda didn't go so far as to blame us for him getting second place, so you're big time in buddyville here, Exe.

Don't even try to spin this that way. The point is there are multiple suspects who are degrees scummier than Kcd. The fact that Kcd is in the top two baffles me, and as a result we've lost a power role.
People on this site really don't have any clue how to read a fucking VI, it's what killed Vezok (our cop) in execution mafia and it's what's now fucked our "Elite Bodyguard" (assuming he's telling the truth, which, since I believe he's town, I think he is).


@Trow: I am

not

impressed by that explanation. You're top two reads were dictated by something so small, I can't imagine that making the top 2. Suffice to say, igmeoy

[Exe]

Whoa there's been a lot of posting here.

But I've had a buuuusy day. Sooo, I'll post laterish.

[Exe]

Sorry, I'm still

really

busy.

I should have something up before too long though.

[Exe]

UGH.

Ok, well I am way behind in this, as this was exam week, and I am really frustrated with the lack of a flip. It's hard for me to be into a game when I have absolutely no confirmation, especially when my personal school of thought regarding mafia is that the game should be hard and fast, throwing care to the wind, and waiting for flips to give concrete reasons to change reads.

Tl;dr version: Idk wtf to do.

I still say Zinger is almost certainly scum. Town who votes himself? Yeah right.

I still need to do a more thorough reread of at least this day...but I am having trouble finding the desire to be perfectly honest... >.>

Anyone got any specific questions directly at me, or things they want me to look at, which I can address while forcing myself to develop my own train of thought? >.<

[Exe]

@Imaginality: That's fair, but really I just want to see a freaking flip. Had we seen Zinger's alignment, I promise today would've been a LOT different. This is why I like to know ahead of time whether no-flip will be part of the setup.

GreyICE is obvtown. This wagon on him is scum driven, I almost guarantee. That or none of you have ever played with Grey before.
GreyICE puts 100% effort into the game at nearly all times. His current attitude reads as pissed off Grey-town to me.
Grey-scum would see this no-flip as an opportunity to screw with things, not nearly replace out.

I still think most of my tells on Doombunny hold water. And C-Worl is doing that classic "lulz hey guys, treat me as a VI!" act that a lot of scum tend to do. I'd say he's my number 1. Also, ISO'ing him, there's absolutely ZERO scumhunting and 100% speculation/fluff on C-Worl's part. How did I miss this? (probably because I've been gone >.>)

Alright, I have to ask now.

RC:

Why the FUCK is C-Worl your third to last? Please make a case for C-Worl-town for me, so I can see where your head is right now, because that makes absolutely no sense to me.
Anyone else who hasn't posted a list yet, but thinks C-Worl is probtown should also explain themselves.

Go.

[Exe]

Oh and by the way.

ZINGER VOTED HIMSELF.

Why the fuck is that being ignored?

Why does anyone think Zinger is prob-town!?

[Exe]

independent of allignment zinger screwed up,

False.

Self-voting is considered a viable strategy as scum.
It is not, as town.

Your whole "not risking this game on.." part is crap. You're making a BIGGER assumption by assuming that Zinger is mentally challenged rather than playing to a rarely-ever-wrong scumtell.
You're basically handing him a free VI card.

[Exe]

@Max:
Well Kcd is probtown, which leaves either RC or Amrun. I'd say either one is equally likely, as Amrun is in my experience fond of pushing for easy-crappy wagons as scum. RC is possible because his list just makes absolutely no sense and I can't see his reasoning as town.

@Trow:
Oh wow, I totally screwed up that quote. Sorry Imaginality >.> That should read MrTrow.
You've seen 2 self-votes from townies? Do you frequent newbie games? Regardless, these are exceptions (and exceptionally dumb people, apparently).

Zinger however posted a list of top-x suspects, plus a case on the nr1 after claiming he would self-vote and kept his word.

Most likely because Zinger didn't expect VI-KCD to be against him, and actually thought he could pull off the mislynch.

You're basically giving Zinger a super-duper-town read based on one post...when there's a whole list of D1 posts AND a self-vote against it.

Occam's razor people. Come on.

I'm still thinking DB as number 1. Perhaps RC in the second slot? Ugh, fuck no flip.

[Exe]

Second: this is a game of motivation. What town-motivation would Zinger have for voting himself?

[Exe]

Kcd: No, Grey is town because he's obviously town. Stop failing.

[Exe]

Also, that was some mad good posting Trag.

[Exe]

Grey isn't town simply because he did a similar thing in some other game you guys played together God knows how long ago.

Is this what I said? I don't think so.

You really don't think it's at all possible that Zinger voted himself as town?

Nope.
Let me bold this because you seem to be repeatedly ignoring it.

Zinger was scummy BEFORE he ever self-voted.
His predecessor was scummy.
He was scummy.
And THEN he self-voted.

Zinger. Is. Scum.

Wtf is wrong with this game. Zinger at the bottom and GreyICE at the top? This is worse than Execution mafia.

[Exe]

Tell me why you think GreyICE is scum. I've basically explained my reasoning.

[Exe]

Think about it for a second.

He scumhunted D1. D2 he became lazy.

What makes more sense.

That suddenly, out of nowhere, he just decided to stop being a good player and be lazy-scum instead?

Or

That he's town, was frustrated by the no-flip, and has lost interest as a result?

You tell me.

[Exe]

I still say C-Worl should be at the top of people's lists. I don't know why he's getting a free pass when GreyICE is somehow obvscum to people.

I don't agree with almost anything RC says. I can't even figure out how to deal with that.

Fuck it.

Vote: Lynch

This game is really frustrating me. No-flip is stupid as all hell.

[Exe]

No-flip is dumb.

Here is why.

Because rather than being able to scumhunt all of D2, we've spent half the time arguing over whether we scumhunted effectively D1.

Which is stupid.

But whatever, I have my top choice and that at least is enough to see the game progress.

[Exe]

Have to pretty surely go with Amrun in this. Role claim doesn't add up, so either her or Kcda is lying.

Don't really know what else to say.

[Exe]

I am so saddenned by Jil's play......

That quick-claim killed him SO HARD.

Also, I worked SO HARD to bus my scumbuddies because I would get legitimate reactions out of them (since they didn't know who I was) and then they no-flipped....


Sigh.

Also, I don't think my role was technically a traitor role...?

[Exe]

Town Suicide Bomber never sounds town anymore.

It's not that, it's that the OBVIOUS response to town suicide bomber is "Well then kill this person. One of you are probably scum so it's a good 1:1 trade."

Never ever ever claim suicide town anything as scum. Ever.