Newbie 1082: No Country for Old Mafia - Game Over!

[Romanus]

/confirm

[Romanus]

Vote: Misder

First to confirm just has to be scum, right?

note: this is not a serious vote or strategy at all. Strictly RVS (random vote stage)

[Romanus]

@zMuff - I told you it wasn't serious because this is a newbie game, and most especially early on, I feel it is my job as IC to make sure I'm being very clear about what is going on. But jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so this one is serious:

Unvote

Vote: zMuffinMan

1) I've been playing off and on for 5 years or so. Started with meat world playing and then found this site. I haven't been around here in a while, but I plan on being a fixture for a while now.
2) Oddly enough, one of the reasons I play is because I teach writing in college and MS contains some of the best essays on the internet. But also, I just love games, from tabletop minis to board, card, Wow. Yeah, I'll play just about any game.

[Romanus]

To answer the questions that have been directed at me:

I believe it is my role to ease players into playing this game that I believe is valuable and fun. I love writing, and it is a great way to exercise my brain and stretch my writing skills. I made a point to post early. I do not want to assume the level of knowledge of any player. And also, considering the mountain of wiki pages dedicated to strategies and scumtells, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has posited that confirmation order could be a scumtell. I hope to accomplish this by explaining different things that are going on if, and when they need to be explained. And also, to be a good player. I will play to win. I will also keep things in a friendly tone. I want to encourage people to play.

The itty bitty thing that I saw zMuff jump on, was the very thing I described above. He voted me for trying to fulfill my role as IC. I'm not sure why, even if done poorly, this is a good reason to vote someone. Now, zMuff may retort, "But my vote was just as unserious as your vote!" To which I would reply, "But I think it was made to look innocent, so that you could push a wagon for an innocent reason."

But you also haven't been pushing, just waiting.

[Romanus]

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

As Player: I absolutely think that my reason for voting you could be seen as an innocent reason for pushing a wagon. And yes, there is a reason to wait and not push. Right now is not a very good time to dig your heels in.

The most scummy person I see now is Misder. His posts lack genuine scumhunting.

Unvote
Vote: Misder

[Romanus]

To be honest, I think crazy explained it much better than you did.

As IC: I have no problem admitting that I did it poorly. I'd also love suggestions as to how to do the "ease in" in a better fashion.

[Romanus]

Pressure is a wonderful thing. The fact that we can up the pressure this fast, I believe, is a good thing. I believe to truly move from RVS to real substantive votes, a real wagon has to be formed, with real consequences.

[Romanus]

Let's look at it this way: What real danger is there from a speed lynch? Afraid the scum will come out and get a townie without the town being able to stop it? Um, it's not like we won't know who did it, and they will have a lot to answer for if the speedlynch flips townie. A speed lynch on page 4. I would love it. I would think the scum would have just outed themselves.

Townies best and only weapon is their vote. I treat my vote as a weapon. I hate leaving my vote in an innocuous place. Takes away it's teeth and becomes less of a weapon or no weapon at all.

And I support the Misder wagon up until the point I no longer believe he is likely scum.

[Romanus]

What can be more obvious than a page 4 or 5 or even 6 speed lynch? I don't care about shrouding in logic, the action of a speedlynch could not be covered by any amount of disinfectant.

I think L-2 is exactly where he should be right now. L-1 I'd be fine with, then we would get some seriously nervous posts.

I'm really not sure why people are so afraid of actually putting some real pressure on someone.

[Romanus]

Pressure is good?

Yes

[Romanus]

What can be more obvious than a page 4 or 5 or even 6 speed lynch? I don't care about shrouding in logic, the action of a speedlynch could not be covered by any amount of disinfectant.

I think L-2 is exactly where he should be right now. L-1 I'd be fine with, then we would get some seriously nervous posts.

I'm really not sure why people are so afraid of actually putting some real pressure on someone.

Speed lynches are BAD for town. With 7 town 2 mafia alive, a speed lynch will probably cause it to be 5 town 2 mafia.

@Wing
Care to say why you're voting, apart from trying to pressure him?

It's partially a pressure vote, but mostly a vote on scum. He was under pressure before I voted him, and he responded poorly. Especially just now.

Pressure is good?

Yes

Someone puts you to L-2 and all you say is "yes?" He hasn't been scumhunting, he's been pushing for unfounded lynches. It's still early, but I'm just about ready to see him lynched. Nothing personal.

I'm not concerned about numbers here. I'm concerned about scumhunting. Odds are we will lynch a townie today. Happens in most games. That really isn't important. What's important is the info you get.

I'm not pushing for lynches, I'm pushing for wagons, serious ones. The simple fact that anyone brought up the possibility of a speed lynch, and the fact that it is tied up in a neat scum bow almost guarantees there will be no speed lynch.

Pressure makes people react. Pressure makes people take a stand in their posts. This is the best way to hunt scum in my opinion.

[Romanus]

Unvote

[Romanus]

Honestly, that vote is for some breathing room. And I realize it contradicts my post #83, but I got nervous. Too easy for someone to hammer and claim they made a mistake somehow.

[Romanus]

Are you insinuating something?

[Romanus]

Just before you encouraged us to join the bandwagon and speed lynch. Now you're doing the opposite, after I pointed it out.

You weren't scum hunting. You were encouraging speed lynches before we get any evidence.

A speed lynch would have been some pretty damning evidence. But the possibility, in a Newbie game, of a player playing the "I'm a noob, I made a mistake" card, made me reconsider L-1.

Anyway, I think I may have found some real scum

Wait, I thought we were pressuring Misder?
Um, so, do I vote now, or let somebody else do that :/

I'll go with it.

Unvote: McGriddle
Vote: Misder

And don't hammer 'til we get some stuff from him!

Vote: cjdrum

[Romanus]

Yes, I can. No, I won't.

[Romanus]

I pointed out the post that I think is scummy. If you don't find it scummy, fine. But I refuse to think for people.

"Please, please, give me reasons that I can parrot." I don't think so. Think for yourself. No townie should want to be spoonfed.

And there is no way I am claiming right now. Someone is trying to take control of this game, and it ain't me.

[Romanus]

As IC: I think the term bandwagon, or wagon is used rather loosely on this site. As I understand it, a wagon can refer to any person with any votes on them. At least, I have heard it referred to as such. This is the official entry from the wiki:

Several Votes on the same player to try to Lynch them or force them to roleclaim; especially used if the votes come in quick succession and without independent reasons.

Bandwagons can be especially frustrating for players, because they can seem to build a momentum of their own, often independent of the validity of the original reasoning that started it. Some players (Pro-Town or Scum) will even give up, rather than face the uphill battle of recovering against such an onslaught.

Bandwagoning is usually used on Day 1 to quickly gather information on players' roles and voting patterns. It is especially dangerous during Lynch-or-Lose situations (where one misvote will make the town lose) and should be avoided at that point.

I wanted to preemptively address this to avoid derailing the game into a discussion on what a wagon is. Prosaurus is using the precise definition of the word, but others will use it with a more liberal definition.

[Romanus]

This is a bit of an aside, and maybe a defense of some sort. As is in my signature, I like stirring shit. It has to be done. The best way to get it done is to do some controversial thing. I have done that. I took a stand for a type of play I like, that is, getting someone close to a lynch and seeing how people react. The quickness and ease at which the L-1 vote came in made me reconsider what was going on. Attention has to be drawn somewhere. And I don't mind being in the spotlight. I say things that will generate reactions. Things I fully intend to explain later, like the "Yes I can, No I won't," line.

Unvoting when it got to L-1 was prudent. It could also be interpreted a few ways. I also determined that my vote was in the wrong place.

I was and continue to hunt scum. I have my methods, and I like them.

cjdrum is our lynch for today. Opinions?

[Romanus]

Sorry guys, I have had little to no internet access the past couple days. I will do a catch up by tonight.