Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[Saint]

AND to top it off, with DGB's list, jeez

flipping q21, if he flips scum, would clear both us and implosion (assuming he isn't lying about implosion)
if you think about it, q21 knows that if he flips we are clear. it is logical for him to want us gone from this game before him, and before we can see that the ties between us can confirm a few people through cycling mechanics.

also, the town seem to have not wanted to pass him anything except the inability to vote. Not to really want everyone to ride the bandwagon on believing him to be scum, as it is irrelevant

at this point

, but I just want everyone to keep in mind that this guy needs to be lynched tomorrow.

mod

can you dayvig the treestump, successfully putting the ability out of the game and the player?

[Saint]

1) WC got the Void Collector N3 and saw nothing in there, signaling the dayvig was already picked up the prior night.
2) Implosion or StrangerCoug collected the Dayvig N2, and passed it to WC last night
3) Diddin used the BusDriver Ability N2 and gave it to WC N2 (and for some reason WC never brought it up).

There are lots of explanations, no need to jump down WC's throat quite yet. I actually believe him that the dayvig is in someone's hands here. Now whether we get to use that with an MIA Virus is another question.

I'm pretty sure 1) and 2) are impossible time-wise; the collection ability (and checking if something is in the Void) should resolve before passes (sending the Dayvig out). diddin Driving Dayvig sounds appealing, although giving it to WrathChild, not so much at all.

Regardless, without the Virus, the daykill is useless. There is one person who claimed information about the Virus, and he's not saying anything, so. >_>

Getting off of obnoxious speculation, who do you advocate lynching Today?

---

nhammen, I'm actually kind of curious - why Saint for your N2 pass?

[Saint]

Saint/Vi, you are wrong on being impossible time wise.

I got the ability N1, probably more like Dawn of D2. I was told that I had one choice, the one quadz passed to MOI N1.

So 1 & 2 are definitely possibilities.

Shows what I know. (>")>

I think the best three lynch candidates today are CKD, Saint, or Pops. The latter two have been pushing easy lynches throughout this game, and now they are pushing WC. I said Nero was the easy target D3, and DBE was D2, well now I say it is WC is the easy one D4. I am not for that lynch at all.

Um... I *was* pushing WrathChild until q21 pointed out that I'm assuming one too many things, at which time I (implicitly, I'll admit) dropped it (2032). pops completely missing my retraction post is strange, granted.

This doesn't seem clear enough to you, so I'm going to say it again. I have no interest in striking out on my own at this point. I've been almost literally as wrong as possible up to this point and I don't have the role-based information that's starting to drive the game now. I'll point out my observations as I go - for what they're worth - but I'm in no position to press anything.

Given the odd number of starting players, I'm willing to wager that if there is a second anti-Town element in the game it's an SK. Goofyface's hammers on both of the previous two lynching wagons are consistent with her being it, tbqh Goofball was the obvious NK choice last Night, etc. This is all IF nobody claims a NightVig shot, of course.

Nero Cain wasn't an easy wagon Yesterday so much as the competing wagon with themanhimself-scum.
Based on that, I would not have Purged Nero Cain last Night even if I were able to.

[Saint]

Bunnylover's 2043 is very scummy
I view CKD as a very easy mislynch, and while I was reading him as scum during the time he had the treestump, I am actually suspecting he is town considering a few of these things:

1) his pressure on TMH
2) his defense of DBE
3) his town meta appearing scummy

It's in play. Let's decide who we want to dayvig, AND who we want to lynch.

It doesn't work like that.
The dayvig ability requires the Virus. I don't see a Virus around. The dayvig ability, if it is in the game, is presently useless.

But more importantly, consider the following.
...

I had the Void Collector ability N1. I said I passed it to either Implosion or StrangerCoug N2. Definitely not WC. So that still leaves the following possibilities:

1) WC got the Void Collector N3 and saw nothing in there, signaling the dayvig was already picked up the prior night.
2) Implosion or StrangerCoug collected the Dayvig N2, and passed it to WC last night
3) Diddin used the BusDriver Ability N2 and gave it to WC N2 (and for some reason WC never brought it up).

There are lots of explanations, no need to jump down WC's throat quite yet. I actually believe him that the dayvig is in someone's hands here. Now whether we get to use that with an MIA Virus is another question.

Obv if/swhen the dayvig is fired up, that player should come forward and zap q21/treestump IMO.

Seconded, but we need to get this out in the open

now

as opposed to later
We are nearing the point that we need to just get everything out in the open as a town collective.

1) WC got the Void Collector N3 and saw nothing in there, signaling the dayvig was already picked up the prior night.
2) Implosion or StrangerCoug collected the Dayvig N2, and passed it to WC last night
3) Diddin used the BusDriver Ability N2 and gave it to WC N2 (and for some reason WC never brought it up).

There are lots of explanations, no need to jump down WC's throat quite yet. I actually believe him that the dayvig is in someone's hands here. Now whether we get to use that with an MIA Virus is another question.

I'm pretty sure 1) and 2) are impossible time-wise; the collection ability (and checking if something is in the Void) should resolve before passes (sending the Dayvig out). diddin Driving Dayvig sounds appealing, although giving it to WrathChild, not so much at all.

Regardless, without the Virus, the daykill is useless. There is one person who claimed information about the Virus, and he's not saying anything, so. >_>

Getting off of obnoxious speculation, who do you advocate lynching Today?

---

nhammen, I'm actually kind of curious - why Saint for your N2 pass?

People tend to view my town play as painstakingly obvious when they are smart.
Nhammen is smart.
Nhammen views my town play as painstakingly obvious

Also, my night actions are typically amazing, when I'm around to send them in... or when the ability has them... if this one did.

This is the most confused I've ever seen you, Vi.

Basically, of the remaining 3-4 scum, I wouldn't be surprised if they're pushing CKD/us/WC today for a mislynch
That's my take on this game.

ALSO, the town needs to out who passed to who, what they passed, what was used, etc.
People are really getting by way too leniently, and people who just randomly claim to me are typically appearing town. That is why I'm sort of softclaiming defense on WC. He is just way too easy of a mislynch, and it has been tried all game. The only thing that is damning about it whatsoever is the fact that I haven't seen him flip, which implies it was deterred for a reason. There must have been more than one person leaning towards him being town, though, or he'd be dead.

My defense of CKD is thrown off by him not wanting to send that to TMH, but I'll admit that I was honestly reading TMH more as snarky town than I was reading him as unhelpful scum. He was actually helpful on D1, and I guess first impressions are everything. I have seen CKD play like this as town, in MoHO 1, and this fits that.

I feel like my reads have been all flip flopping, though. Hell, the fact that I've gone from passing the roleblocker ability, (omg, did he just claim something?!) which I used on DBE on N1 (which is why I was adamant on questioning DBE at the start of d2), to Q21, whereas I now find him to be scummy scum.

TMH flipping changes everything. It is like 9/11.

[Saint]

FoS

bunnylover

[Saint]

also, my defense on DGB is this:
very pro-town posting
MS177325 or whatever is listed as an Eruci in the game op
and that's her number
but, she COULD be an SK... Eruci SK... I doubt it, though, as she is listed as an Eruci. I know someone brought this up, though.

[Saint]

Everyone please officially claim if you Purged Nero Cain or not last night.

I did not Purge Nero Cain Night 3

That's all very nice, except if the ability was randomized in the hands of scum, all they have to do is deny having got it, and I have a target on me. Plus, it was a suspicious

TOWNIE

that was shot last night, so I could look bad for having attacked Nero Cain, too.

If you'll excuse me for potentially being wrong about game mechanics...

Nobody claimed the chkflip kill either. If whoever gets this extra kill is indeed randomized per Night, there is no downside whatsoever to that person claiming now as well.

In addition, it's quite plausible that chkflip, RedCoyote, and Nero Cain were all shots that were intended to hit scum, and while the Nero Cain shot was a bit on the suboptimal side it still wasn't obviously bad. If scum were using the shot, they could have picked far better (for them) targets each time.

----

The case on ckd, as far as I care to be concerned, is that he failed to pass the Tree Stump to themanhimself-scum (which scum conveniently couldn't do), and it just so happened to land on the person driving the Town. While previously I said that he indeed did not post for four days onsite, that doesn't equate to him being completely offsite during that time, and the Tree Stump was something of a big deal.

On the other hand, I still think that a single-scumgroup ckd wouldn't have so openly suggested using it to clear Townies en masse. At this point I'm willing to defer to IAI, but I'm not optimistic.

----

Apologies to WrathChild go here. I see no reason not to believe that the Daykill needs the Virus to work, though. If everyone has posted Today (and I'm too lazy to check) then the Virus should be beach-ball bouncing around right now if it's present at all. If that's not happening, passing abilities is always good if nothing else. Where the Virus went is a pointed question for

popsofctown

, again.

----

I am not Furcolow, but Bunnylover's 2043 is strange in that he immediately says he doesn't like ckd's post. What, his "didn't have anything, will catch up later" post?

[Saint]

Nobody claimed the chkflip kill either.

This player may no longer be with us.

Possibly. However, the person who liquidated Nero Cain -is- with us and I don't think the kill was motivated by scum.
There's nothing to lose by claiming if everything you've said so far is correct.

The case on ckd, as far as I care to be concerned, is that he failed to pass the Tree Stump to themanhimself-scum (which scum conveniently couldn't do), and it just so happened to land on the person driving the Town.

Was CKD under attack himself when he was going after TMH and defending DBE? Scum under attack does tend to bus more.

Funny, I don't remember saying anything about that. You brought it up, you check.

I am not Furcolow, but Bunnylover's 2043 is strange in that he immediately says he doesn't like ckd's post. What, his "didn't have anything, will catch up later" post?

Anti-lurking sentiment? Or are you suggesting Bunnylover is bus'ing? Or going for an easy lynch?

The third one.

[Saint]

Nobody claimed the chkflip kill either.

This player may no longer be with us.

Possibly. However, the person who liquidated Nero Cain -is- with us and I don't think the kill was motivated by scum.
There's nothing to lose by claiming if everything you've said so far is correct.

Someone is going to claim it anyway,

but seriously,

if scum had it, they don't claim it,

and I'm as good as dead.

Okay, so I know I've played really badly ITT, but even I haven't contradicted myself in the same sentence for the sake of Spreading the Paranoia.

Or going for an easy lynch?

The third one.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

And what do you think about Q21? I thought my case on his latest post was genius use of large fonts.

The passage does seem awkwardly worded. Your artistic skill with differing fonts and colors is good as always.

Also and before you get carried away, "going for an easy lynch" doesn't make a comment on ckd's alignment.

[Saint]

Oh cool, q21's onsite. o.o

[Saint]

The virus

could be

bouncing within the scumteam, ever so silently. But either way, it's clearly not going to explode today, so the dayvig, if it's truly dependent, is useless.

Bolded words are the frustrating ones, because I know you have information you aren't letting on.

Plus if it's possible that the Virus is bouncing within the scumteam, then the last person we know it was passed to would have to be scum.

[Saint]

Everyone please officially claim if you Purged Nero Cain or not last night.

I did not Purge Nero Cain Night 3

That's all very nice, except if the ability was randomized in the hands of scum, all they have to do is deny having got it, and I have a target on me. Plus, it was a suspicious

TOWNIE

that was shot last night, so I could look bad for having attacked Nero Cain, too.

If you'll excuse me for potentially being wrong about game mechanics...

Nobody claimed the chkflip kill either. If whoever gets this extra kill is indeed randomized per Night, there is no downside whatsoever to that person claiming now as well.

My memory isn't perfect, but it is telling me that I think popz claimed the night 1 kill... not going to go trawl through his posts to check, he can confirm it himself... or tell me I'm a moron.

I just looked, and I didn't see it. It's clear that he passed SOMETHING to Goofball, but according to IAI (who has presumably been keeping better track of the unnecessarily shady things unnecessarily shady people have said) it wasn't the daykill.

Amazing how he's only posted fewer than 50 posts since DarlaBlueEyes died D2 though.

Goofball mistaking StrangerCoug for someone who has replaced out is understandable because the Coug has been lurking hardcore recently.
That plus ducking out of the D3 ability passage report (IIRC) is a good reason to put him on a scumlist.

[Saint]

By the way, I didn't think the virus could be passed at night, so I didn't send in anything. I DID pick up something, but for now I'm not going to claim what it is. If the person who passed it to me wants to speak up, he or she can, but I'd like to hang onto it right now.

Vague? Yes it is.
Interesting because it's the last time the Virus was seen? Yes it is.
Changes that you've been doing your best not to say anything contentful Today or Yesterday? No it doesn't.

[Saint]

popsofctown: Obstructive annoying poster, or most obstructive annoying poster? I report, you decide.

I actually thought about giving the reason for it when I posted that I passed to you, since it was a bit odd of a choice, but I realized that if I gave a reason away, scum could use that knowledge of my method of passing to find out who I would pass to on any other night, so I deleted that from my post just before submitting. Why do you wish to know?

Curiosity. I'm willing to wait to explain.

Talking of Goofball's scumputer - has anyone noticed that she hasn't, y'know,

used

those calculations at all? I'm pretty sure she's playing to her scum meta here (and she taught me how to play scum/SK, I would know).

I don't see unnecessarily divulging info as protown. People who can specifically explain to me why any particular piece of info is protown will receive a cheerful answer. People who are just reaaally reaaally curious don't have a good reason, and for all I know may be scum who want to abuse the info.

Since everyone is sooo distraught over the virus not being in play, I'll say that my night one power isn't something that would necessarily attempt to infect someone every night. It's perfectly normal for the virus not to be in play right now, and it doesn't at all imply that the holder was roleblocked.

1) Let's go the other way with this. Why would scum get any special knowledge (that they may not already have) from learning what you know about the Virus?
2) I already have specifically explained why this particular piece of information is pro-Town. In addition to it completing Town's knowledge of how the daykill works, there's a noticeable credibility gap on your end, and we're ALL tired of getting toyed with.
3) If the ability is standard as you claim and you had it D1, then two to three other people should have it and there's no reason for us to rely on you alone as our pipeline to Virus information. Yet nobody else has claimed it. Therefore the ability was either passed to the Void N1 - which a number of people can attest didn't happen - or scum got it at least once, or there's something about the ability you're not mentioning, or both of the previous two. In that case, your argument for not divulging the information evaporates.

This would be the part where I vote pops but I'd much rather wait to see what the verdict is on G00fball.

Cut by IAI - Yes, that.

[Saint]

Roles that could determine a lack of scum teammates:

Treestump: Implosion -> Curiouskarmadog -> I Am Innocent -> q21
Day Vig:

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> ? -> WrathChild
Void Collector: (nobody D1) -> I Am Innocent -> Implosion/StrangerCoug ->
Hibernate Ability:

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by I Am Innocent -> Implosion/StrangerCoug ->
?: popsofctown -> DrippingGoofball -> LynchMePls (Randomly sent?) -> ?
?: Bunnylover -> nhammen -> Saint -> ?
?: q21/nhammen -> Implosion -> I Am Innocent -> ?
?: q21/nhammen -> Implosion -> popsofctown -> ?
?: Saint -> q21 -> Implosion -> ?
Purge Ability?: ? -> DrippingGoofball -> ? -> ?

Night 3 Actions

LynchMePls: had one power role D3
popsofctown: had one power role D3
Saint: had one power role D3
StrangerCoug: had one power role D3
I Am Innocent: had two power roles D3

nhammen: Vanilla Town D3
Curiouskarmadog: Vanilla Town D3
WrathChild: Vanilla Town D3

Still need Implosion, q21, BunnyLover, DrippingGoofball to confirm how many roles they had D3/N3

When Day 5 happens we should do the following in order:

1) Everyone in their first post state who they sent an ability to Night 3
2) Once

everyone

has completed step #1, then everyone come forward on whether they had a power role Day/Night 4 or not.

Actually, it's not on record, although you can see where it would go.
It could have been on record if you were more than obstructive and obnoxious.

Yes, revelation of info leads to knowledge, how is that knowledge going to lead to an ability to make decisions that keep townies alive and make scums dead?

Identifying loopholes and choices on what is mostly a public mechanic. Y'know, like diddin did with the daykill.

As for the "credibility gap nonsense", it sounds you're just going to threaten my lynch until I fullclaim to sate your curiosity, simply because you think I'm lying, solely on the basis that I'm amongst the legions of players who cheerfully share theme game role info because it's fun and fascinating, so I therefore must be scum, who expects to conceal the true, evil nature of a role that has been in two other player's hands by now

Almost. Nobody said you were lying. And it's not like it's the only reason people want to lynch you.

So, now that it's established what the Virus line is, I would be okay with this if these two vouched for it being worth keeping under wraps.

[Saint]

pops, you're rapidly rising on the short list of people I have to stop myself from flaming. I just got in, and really SHOULDN'T be posting right now.

Saint did have a role at the beginning of the game, but it wasn't the Purge. You should be able to see this PLAIN AS DAY from the cycling chart, and since you're running on the assumption that nobody started with two abilities, I can only assume you're being thick.

I was referring to diddin revealing that the daykill required the Virus to work. Seriously.
If scum COULD take a daykilling ability, they wouldn't need more information for it to be a good idea.

While it is possible for someone to have not claimed a Purge N1, and therefore make it POSSIBLE that Goofball is Town, there are a number of things stacked against you.
*The game started with an odd number of players (25). Given that this game was designed pre-13-player-Minis, having an odd number of players is indicative of balancing for a single (or odd number of) extra killing element(s).
*Nobody has claimed a Purge N1, but nobody has claimed a Purge N3 either. chkflip was an -obvious- attempt to hit scum; Nero Cain wasn't quite so obvious but still likely an attempt to hit scum, so we can assume with reasonable security that a Townie was behind at least ONE of those hits.
*The difference between Goofball being confirmed Town and confirmed SK is whether someone comes and speaks up about the existence of a Purging element. It's -entirely safe- to do so at this point, because the ability has already cycled away. Any Townie is therefore OBLIGATED to corroborate her story.
*nhammen has already pointed out that the chkflip Purge was not claimed by anyone who has died so far. Ergo, the chkflip Purger is still alive.
*Goofball "forgot" to send in an cycle and doesn't know where it went, yet clearly read enough to know she had a kill and how to use it? That's actually LESS likely than tmh's story, and actually worse than ckd's.

And the best part is, we've been over almost all of that already.
What's frustrating is that having played with you before, I'm not sure it's abnormal for you to be this dense.

[Saint]

Note to self - there's an inconsistency somewhere that should be looked into later.

Cut by Goofball: By "no" I suspect you mean "look at pops, not me".

[Saint]

I think this conversation about the multibility pops and Goofball are arguing about has been enlightening - it deals nicely with the contradiction I saw earlier, for instance - but I don't think it says anything about alignment; there's no reason for Goofy to lie about it or for pops to raise a fuss for nonexistent reasons.
That doesn't change that Goofy is probably lying about the cycling Purge though. I actually think her defense* against the argument is ingenious.

I think it also explains why the Virus hasn't shown up recently. I don't think it will again tbh. That doesn't make the daykill completely useless, though - it's still an ability that can be cycled.

WrathChild needs to change his avatar to Rodney Dangerfield. No respect. Woo-woo-woo-nyuk-nyuk-etc.

I don't really see a major downside to massclaim, since with Moai's plan scum can't actually HIT what's flying around unless they get it passed to themselves (at which time they get to make the suspicious claim that they passed to the Void). Plus it'll resolve all these nice issues that are coming to light and help maximize what information Town gets out of cycling.
So with that in mind I'm curious as to what LMP Bizkit means by "an overabundance of information". Has there been something said that shouldn't have been?

Also

Vote: DrippingGoofball

(L-6)
Confirmed scum + one less kill per Night (meaning less chance of stuff getting accidentally Voided) > all alternatives.

*ignoring it completely and continuing as if it weren't there, because it's completely indefensible

[Saint]

*ignoring it completely and continuing as if it weren't there, because it's completely indefensible[/i][/color]

Because you can't lynch me today anyway, on account of the ability I've been passed. And if you can convince a lot of players of what you are trying to convince them of, it's going to make it doubly useful.

Ah, THERE's your defense... so to speak.

You and pops have already detailed that to some extent we can pick up abilities that people were holding when they died, so yes, we CAN lynch you.

---

pops - I thought I understood what's going on here, but the line of thought I was working with still leads to an inconsistency. At this point I think it's probably better to just lynch the scum and see what comes up on a future Day.

[Saint]

But other ones, we might as well come out on. Saint/Furc already said he was a roleblocker, so we might as well fill the blanks with that.

...Really?

Well, you couldn't have guessed it on your own, so yes. I initially thought the Roleblock stopped the kill N3, but that didn't mesh with LMP claiming it, so.

Saint blocked DarlaBlueEyes N1. (Yes, I know.)

they aren't launched back into the game, the way the void thing sounds like it works. You use them from outside the game. Cept the virus which seems like a passive thing gets converted into more like a virus launcher where you pick someone to infect. That's why I tried to conceal the role for a while, tree stump might work the same way.

As I thought.
In addition, the contradiction between your claim and Goofball's is neatly resolved by assuming that once offered, the roles are gone for good.
But that doesn't explain how LMP was able to stop the kill, again.

[Saint]

If you'll go back to when DBE was lynched, and correlate my posts on her on who she protected, you will see I was suspicious of her claim.

[Saint]

//We've developed an entirely new program

MS1775305

. We needed to put together the most proficient team for this one, and with you being one of the most prominent Eruci...you're in it.

MS1775305

- DrippingGoofball

[Lateralus22][TheLonging]

[Online.]
SK or Town Hero?

Either way, I want to lynch scum-mafia, not scum-SK. Leave DGB for later.

[Saint]

unvote

[Saint]

drip is eruci according to the op
not daevori
rambo, perhaps

[Saint]

bunnylover openly wagonned quadz, a townie, in an rvs style vote
bunnylover quickhammered powerrox, a townie, then his defense was "if you want to attack me for that, fine"
he also appears to have more knowledge of the setup than anyone I've seen yet, while having the grammar of the uneducated.

Anti-town voting + unexplainable knowledge = scum

vote: bunnylover

[Saint]

I tracked StrangerCoug, and he didn't go anywhere that night.

implosion - should I claim my day 1 role... I get the impression that that's the role you're suggesting is kept quiet.

Yeah, it is.

if q21 knows about it, it might be good for Vi to hear about it. I'm for you outting the information, because at this point, it's safe to assume Q21 is on a team with my other suspect Bunnylover for me just based upon who is passing what to who (in my warped mind).

This clears Implosion.
I want to have a town read on you as well, IAI, as your reads are very similar to mine.

[Saint]

RC's #51 really incriminates pops to me
Earlier in his iso, he is trying to distance from him

[Saint]

I'm not against a Bunnylover lynch, so I don't mind where my vote got placed. His posts Today look like they're trying to fly way under the radar.

ckd's Tree Stump pass, on its own, is worth a lynch.

themanhimself

(7) -

RedCoyote,

StrangerCoug,

Lateralus22,

Powerrox93, Saint, I Am Innocent

Powerrox93

(7) - q21,

Nero Cain, MagnaofIllusion, quadz08,

popsofctown,

themanhimself,

DarlaBlueEyes

themanhimself

(7) -

RedCoyote,

StrangerCoug,

Powerrox93, Saint, I Am Innocent, Parama

Powerrox93

(9) - q21,

Nero Cain, MagnaofIllusion, quadz08,

popsofctown,

themanhimself,

DarlaBlueEyes, chkflip,

Lateralus22

themanhimself

(5) -

RedCoyote,

Powerrox93, I Am Innocent, Parama,

Lateralus22

Powerrox93

(12) - q21,

Nero Cain, MagnaofIllusion, quadz08,

popsofctown,

themanhimself,

DarlaBlueEyes, chkflip, diddin, Saint,

Bunnylover, WrathChild [Lynched.]

*I've taken the liberty of putting IAI and Saint in green and DGb/Lateralus in gray.
The only one I think anyone will question is Saint in green, but I'm not going to argue for anything else.

The tmh wagon D1 bothered me because I thought at the time it was scum-driven.
I'm... still bothered, now that we know some alignments, but for a different reason. Where are all the scum between either of these wagons?

DarlaBlueEyes

(6) - LynchMePls, implosion, popsofctown,

Lateralus22,

StrangerCoug, q21

quadz08

(9) -

Nero Cain,

popsofctown,

diddin,

nhammen,

RedCoyote,

q21, Bunnylover,

Saint,

DrippingGoofball

[Lynched.]

themanhimself

(8) - curiouskarmadog, Bunnylover, q21,

Nero Cain,

WrathChild, StrangerCoug, LynchMePls,

DrippingGoofball

[Lynched.]

Apologies to Goofball; I know you put :effort: into your own wagonalyses.

ckd barely shows up on these wagons; he was voting Nero Cain during all three of the D1 vote counts and wasn't able to vote D2.

I can totally see at least two of {pops, Bunnylover, q21} being Mafia, though.
Given that Goofball is an SK (or even just a permanent Vigilante who lies and quickhammers, so it's pretty much the same thing), there should be three Daevori remaining...

[Saint]

My concern is that she has an entire faction. Does the flavor really rule out two scumteams? Why does everyone seem to think that's impossible?

Nothing in the flavor does (although seeing red used for one faction hints at it somewhat.) However, the setup and her actions pretty consistently hint at SK. I would love to be proven wrong on this, specifically by her flip.

The avatars in this thread just clicked up two notches of awesome, btw. Is this your method of bribing me, pops?

I'm not particularly fond of ckd not passing the Stump and not doing more than whine (how dare you try to usurp my status as Most Convenient LyLo Mislynch <_< ), but the creeping wagon on him is not comforting at all.

I'm totally skipping the Reinitializer talk due to tl;dr. Because the mod just came out and said "oops", I think it's safe to wait for an update before bothering much with it. (fake edit: lol, she's evidently not in any hurry to reveal anything)

I actually DO agree with pops about Coug. What, exactly, is Coug screwing in 2247? Fake appeal to emotion is indeed very fake, and a poor cover for jumping on the wagon.

And since you spent all day calling me SK, and I'm just going LOL, the scum has to NK me at the first opportunity, right?

I think it's within the realm of possibility to think they already tried~

This may take a reread to confirm, which I don't really feel like doing since this may be answerable with a simple question, but didn't you have a fairly strong townread on CKD even after he failed to pass the stump? I might be mixing stuff up chronologically, but if not, I think this might be an incredibly blatant contradiction.

No, you're right. This IS an incredibly blatant contradiction. With that said, if you pushed a lynch on quadz (who was unkind enough to be Town after all of my attacking) and defended themanhimself to some ludicrous extent (which he repaid by being scum) YOU'D want to toss all your previous reads too.

Snarkiness aside, I've already explained based on stuff on page 4 that ckd didn't seem like likely Town, and used that as a basis for my future reads. It's true that he hasn't done much good since, but also not much harm (as evidenced by the vote count analysis I posted before). I'm not thrilled to vote him, but after getting burned by tmh being scum in spite of being rationalizable, I'm not going to fight his lynch.

[Saint]

BTW if ckd flips scum that would make me confirmed town and IAI confirmed town (although I'm pretty sure I'll cut myself if he's mafia) and likely others as well, and as such I'd like to request protection from any roles that are capable of it. That is, the role reuser (or whatever it was called) should take doctor, and it and any other protective roles should be on confirmed townies, IMO.

I see no reason we can't wait a day or so to claim it though. It's really not going to help out the town to know about it. It's pretty useful if you use it as an investigative role, but we can wait until someone finds scum with it before we claim it. Don't you think?

Agreed.

Time out. Why is CKD getting off the hook for his failed Tree stump pass to TMH?

*headdesk*

ckd's Tree Stump pass, on its own, is worth a lynch.

This may take a reread to confirm, which I don't really feel like doing since this may be answerable with a simple question, but didn't you have a fairly strong townread on CKD even after he failed to pass the stump? I might be mixing stuff up chronologically, but if not, I think this might be an incredibly blatant contradiction.

But somehow I don't think the mod is treating the watcher ability like a recessive sex-linked genetic disorder

I lol'd.

That was me
CKD would have had to have been bussing to have been scum. He also buddied up to DarlaBlueEyes, a town mislynch, which buys him town cred from me.

His lack of passing might just mean he viewed the situation differently than we did. I would be OK voting him, possibly, but I'm not convinced.

[Saint]

bunnylover openly wagonned quadz, a townie, in an rvs style vote
bunnylover quickhammered powerrox, a townie, then his defense was "if you want to attack me for that, fine"
he also appears to have more knowledge of the setup than anyone I've seen yet, while having the grammar of the uneducated.

Anti-town voting + unexplainable knowledge = scum

vote: bunnylover

lol I'm sorry, I suck at grammar :<.
I didn't quickhammered anyone. I did vote for powerrox. The question that went unanswered was, "Does your ability pass on?" which to me that is an obvious, "Yes my ability cycles."
Would you have rather me not make a choice between Powerrox and TMH?

I dislike that you put "townie" in your post against me. I do not know anyone elses alignment besides myself. I do not know if Quadz is town, I do not know if Powerrox is town, nor did anyone else on their wagon knew he was town. Their is probably 5 scum, which means townies are going to be on a wagon.

o.o I thought I was lost in this game with the abilities talk, now I have more knowledge x_x.

@Pops: I wouldn't have expected the virus to show up their after it been used (I'm guessing that when it showed up?).
By the way, we need to get rid of this power. I can see pro side of having this power, but I also see a glaring negative side. IF you haven't thought about it, then I can explain it be rather not since I don't think scum have thought about it yet.

Weak defense of "I don't know anyones alignments" with AtE into asking pops about setup analysis

pops/bunnylover scumteam
add Q21 to that list

[Saint]

Now I understand.
Pops actually makes a point. If DGB did kill scum the second night, then obviously he/she knows who shot N3, so why haven't they come out or DGB announce who they are.

@LMP: I think its because of what DGB says, so either its you or DGB who is lieing. I'm still trying to understand that whole post.

DGB
DGB
DGB
when dgb is in the op listed as eruci
focusing on the SK should be a scumtell
when I'm scum, however, I call them scum (like pops is doing in the post that is making you say NOW I UNDERSTAND)

[Saint]

Vi, do you feel bunnylover and pops are buddying?
You said you're happy with the bunnylover vote, and pops responses/grilling of DGB. If you answered yes to the above, care to explain how you can be happy with a vote on someone, and with another player they are buddying, both at the same time? Do you feel like one of them are scum, and one are town?

Not trying to confuse you here, just trying to get on the same page.

[Saint]

Vi, do you feel bunnylover and pops are buddying?
You said you're happy with the bunnylover vote, and pops responses/grilling of DGB. If you answered yes to the above, care to explain how you can be happy with a vote on someone, and with another player they are buddying, both at the same time? Do you feel like one of them are scum, and one are town?

Not trying to confuse you here, just trying to get on the same page.

The difference is something like:

pops: <words words words words words words words>
Bunnylover: I agree with popsarian2. When can we lynch?

Extensive paraphrasing but etc. pops can be scum, but Bunnylover's Town motivation is more obviously lacking.

[Saint]

Aw, did Vi start to changer her mind about me but hide it in the QT? <3

Th-Th-Thaaaaat's not what you think it means! I-I'm not changing my mind on you at all! I totally don't have any feelings for you at all whatsoever!

Although if you're interested, the last thing I said in the QT involved explaining why ckd is being put up as Today's lynch. I don't think Furc buys it, I'm lukewarm about it - I think there are a handful of people who I more want to see lynched (Goofball, Bunnylover, Coug, pops?) and I wouldn't be surprised if ckd flips Town but I have no reason to argue AGAINST it.

Talking of which, I'm willing to bet that no matter who gets lynched Today, Goofball will hammer. Because that's how SKs do it.

For all the "buddying" pops is allegedly doing to Bunnylover, he hasn't said a word about Coug's sheep onto ckd

ROFLLL IAI accuses someone of rolefishing. loll

Your pops posts. Now with REAL PRO-TOWN MOTIVATION.

[Saint]

So above I count (not counting virus) 15 abilities. Now going back to Day 2, we had 12 people with claimed no roles Day 1 for a grand total of 27, but only 25 slots. I'm going back to find where the descrepency is.

2302 is correct.

It's

starting to

look a little more than "Fairly Questionable"

The bolded is not nearly accurate.

I'll grant that I screwed up pops not commenting on Coug, although he commented on Bunnylover so much more. :\

I actually didn't see the nhammen Tracker quote before, but I don't know what to make of it and almost everyone involved is dead, so.

N3 we had an Ability Cop, which just returns how many abilities someone had. It's... kind of useless actually, I didn't know what to do with it. We confirmed that q21 had 0 abilities N3.

[Saint]

N3 we had an Ability Cop, which just returns how many abilities someone had. It's... kind of useless actually, I didn't know what to do with it. We confirmed that q21 had 0 abilities N3.[/i][/color]

q21 is CONFIRMED TOWN. Unless Saint is scum. I asked the mod, and the Mafia Kill counts as an ability in the ability count. If you target scum, they will have at least 1 ability. Anybody with 0 is confirmed town.

n fact, I targeted RedCoyote N2, and he had 1 ability, even though when he died, he was listed with no abilities. BTW, that really freaked me out. The only two players I targeted were both killed on the night I targeted them. I had to go back and check my role PM after that, to make sure I hadn't misread, because I was so incredibly freaked out.

o.o

Or if that's not clear

0.0

Perhaps even O.O, although that might be too much.

FINALLY some good news!

Incidentally, even if Saint is scum - and we're not - q21 is confirmed Town, because we passed to q21 N1. So etc.

[Saint]

Day Vig:
TMH flipped scum so that confirms SC as Town right?

diddin -> tmh -> VOID -> Coug -> ?

I don't think so.

[Saint]

I think there's another conclusion we can come to, but first, I want to know Bunnylover's N1 result.

[Saint]

Or if that's not clear

0.0

Perhaps even O.O, although that might be too much.

FINALLY some good news!

Incidentally, even if Saint is scum - and we're not - q21 is confirmed Town, because we passed to q21 N1. So etc.

Does that confirm Q21 and hhammen?

The only way q21 is NOT confirmed is if the mod answers my clarification PM differently from the way nhammen described.

nhammen is technically not confirmed, but you can judge for yourself whether he'd not only NOT pass a Cop ability to the Void, but whether he'd needlessly speak up in that kind of way to defend an obvious mislynch.

It's not looking good for Bunnylover. And where does CKD fit in all this?

There's no need to work yourself up. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy the noose tightening around your own neck.

[Saint]

Q21 cannot be lynched, so nhammen isn't saying this to prevent Q21's lynch - but rather the NK everyone is demanding.

The question is,

why wasn't this mentioned earlier

? That's something I would have love to input into my scumputer.

He said it at the first available opportunity.

It's really not good for you to be so uptight about a game you can't win. Especially since it seems like you're taking personal exception to q21 being a miskill... presumably because you're the one in charge of making that night-kill.~

[Saint]

And the clarification PM just came in.

nhammen is

not correct

. Only the person using the factional kill will register as having that ability.
So, q21 isn't confirmed. I still think this reflects well on nhammen though.

[Saint]

First opportunity? How is it the first opportunity?

I have to consider the possibility that nhammen tried to cover for Q21.

*puts sign in front of Goofball: "Do not feed the trolls" *

[Saint]

N3 we had an Ability Cop, which just returns how many abilities someone had. It's... kind of useless actually, I didn't know what to do with it. We confirmed that q21 had 0 abilities N3.[/i][/color]

q21 is CONFIRMED TOWN. Unless Saint is scum. I asked the mod, and the Mafia Kill counts as an ability in the ability count. If you target scum, they will have at least 1 ability. Anybody with 0 is confirmed town.

Saint and BunnyLover, can you verify this with the mod as well?

If all 3 have the same story, it is much more believable than just 1 player asking the mod.

IAI, I know I'm ME and everything, but you COULD read my posts. I even bolded the important part.

I targeted MoI N1 and got that he had no abilities.

This is somewhat awkward. You said D2 that "you got MoI's [Void] ability". You just said you got a result that Moai didn't have any abilities.
I'm not sure if this makes sense or not

What I was thinking pre-clarification was that if BL knew what that ability was, he would have Voided it at light speed - especially since scum have every reason to toss stuff into the abyssal dumpster N1. Therefore Bunnylover was more likely Town.

I had BL down as Town for similar reasons while rereading when I first entered the game.

Now... I'm not sure, leaning toward keeping my Town read.

[Saint]

unvote

the ability cop is called monitor

[Saint]

the whole misrepresentation from NHammen may not mean he is scum, but it definitely has my FoS

[Saint]

#5 Can we please get take a look at the uber-suspicious Purge ability. Didn't DGB claim it cycled? So... should the person who held it before and after him be safe to come forward?

You're, like, six pages behind the times here. But you pretty much hit on why Goofball IS the best lynch Today.
There's no reason for her to hit q21 when she can hit, say, someone who's suspicious of her and just keep not getting lynched.

I've already stated who I think should be good lynches for today: Saint and CKD. I've spent ages in this game pointing out why Saint is scum.

ITT, q21 claims tunnel vision.

[Saint]

#5 Can we please get take a look at the uber-suspicious Purge ability. Didn't DGB claim it cycled? So... should the person who held it before and after him be safe to come forward?

You're, like, six pages behind the times here. But you pretty much hit on why Goofball IS the best lynch Today.
There's no reason for her to hit q21 when she can hit, say, someone who's suspicious of her and just keep not getting lynched.

If you read my plan, there is a reason:

1) q21 is scummy and has the treestump. The Purge Ability is the one chance to take them both out at the same time. DGB is off limits today.
2) DGB should be tracked. If they come back doing anything other than targeting q21, auto lynch from the group D5

If we are down 4 scum to start D5, DGB may still be the best lynch D5. That is a decision for then. But for now, DGB is off limits.

I've only ever seen attempting to control the SK lead to tears for Town, but it IS worth the chance of the Tree Stump getting taken out.

Are you done ignoring the results of me and Bunnylover asking the mod about the Monitor ability and the associated conclusions?

[Saint]

I see no reason DGB couldn't be scum with the SK flavor being shotgunned as opposed to purged
Mafia kill could be purged
We see them off on different nights, but neither one of them has been fully consistent. Perhaps due to the person wanting to use other abilities, and the scum kill cycling in and of itself.

[Saint]

#5 Can we please get take a look at the uber-suspicious Purge ability. Didn't DGB claim it cycled? So... should the person who held it before and after him be safe to come forward?

You're, like, six pages behind the times here. But you pretty much hit on why Goofball IS the best lynch Today.
There's no reason for her to hit q21 when she can hit, say, someone who's suspicious of her and just keep not getting lynched.

But I am suspicious of her and she can get town points for killing me because it seems everyone wants her to.

Didn't you just get done saying Saint and ckd were your preferred targets Today?

If some sort of setup design principle renders it unlikely, then I'd want hear about it rather than be ignored.

I've already said why it's more likely... Plus there's the whole flavor thing at the beginning.
If Goofball flipped second scumgroup (and we would be able to positively identify it as a second scumgroup instead of a weird SK name) then I know exactly who I would go for the next Day, but until then, lol speculation.

ckd has pretty much worn out any sympathy I could want to give him at this point.
Coug's diatribe in 2357 wins at irony, though.

[Saint]

The theory that she is "town hero", a permanent vigilante, is bantha pudu

I'm not sure which is more troubling, that you made this reference or that I get it.

I actually like your most recent post.

I've already said why it's more likely... Plus there's the whole flavor thing at the beginning.
If Goofball flipped second scumgroup (and we would be able to positively identify it as a second scumgroup instead of a weird SK name) then I know exactly who I would go for the next Day, but until then, lol speculation.

ckd has pretty much worn out any sympathy I could want to give him at this point.
Coug's diatribe in 2357 wins at irony, though.

You mean here?

Does the flavor really rule out two scumteams?

Nothing in the flavor does (although seeing red used for one faction hints at it somewhat.) However, the setup and her actions pretty consistently hint at SK. I would love to be proven wrong on this, specifically by her flip.

The color thing is weak sauce, which you seem to concede.

You didn't explain how the setup hints at SK, you just said it does. You didn't explain how DGB's actions hint at SK, you just said they do.

At best you thought of reasons why it's unlikely, but never got all the way around the bush to telling me why it's unlikely. Digame, por favor. (tell me please)

Color is indeed color. Most of the time multiple scumgroups get their own colors, although red vs. brown is not unheard of.

I'm pretty positive I said this before in a bulleted list that I'm too drugged to dredge up, but the game starting with an odd number of players implies that it's balanced for an odd number of extra killing roles - basically the 1/4 scum:Town ratio plus one extra.

Goofball's actions are pretty much textbook SK play.
*Attempt to look busy (as distinguished from pro-Town)
*Piss off as few people as possible (making accusations is fine but actually getting on someone's case and majorly pushing for someone's lynch is something different altogether)
*Going along with the above, drop hammers whenever it wouldn't make you look horrible. It confirms a lynch as not-you and (if done right) only annoys the lynchee (who happens to be die immediately afterward and can't do anything about it).

I've played with Goofball-SK before. Because of the unusual way we got linked together (we were SK-Neighbors in US Election 08 Mafia), she TAUGHT me how to be an SK (and a fine job she did!); she explicitly taught me those last two points. THIS IS HER SCUM META. I'm even going to post this in large letters so nobody can claim to have missed it, because while I know I'm not exactly ON FIRE ITT I'm going to bank on this.

GOOFBALL IS PLAYING TO HER SCUM META

FFS.

And for good measure,

Mod: Is the opening post of this thread intended to indicate that there are exactly two teams in this game? (including town)

...I actually have to wonder why I didn't ask this. >.<

[Saint]

apologies for that
it felt like that was a tool that we could use
(in case the last mod post is refererring to me)

I also am more tentative to lynch DGB. CKD wagon lacks momentum. Why is that?

[Saint]

you talking about this game or all my games? what is your point or are you just peddling bullshit?

I'm talking about this game. I don't remember the last useful post you made here. (Hell, did you at all?)

To catch scum, people need to contribute. There is a reason a majority is required to get a lynch (and why some mods, me included, will not lower the majority requirement in a deadline scenario). I may not be a fan of Lynch All Lurkers, but a good number of players do, and for what I'm starting to see as a good reason: Lurking serves no pro-town purpose. It is anti-information and a good way to avoid taking any controversial stances. If you avoid controversial stances as scum, then you should be able to get an easy win, right?

That's why town likes active people who make useful, convincing input into the game.

Post your top three scum reads in the next 48 hours or die.

This, to me, reads as coaching
"help me win or I will bus you", if you will.
Does anyone agree?
I'm happier with a CKD flip. If he's scum, I'm going to look at SC for distancing/bussing possibly. I'll have to read them both in ISO if CKD flips scum, but based upon his last post I'm not so sure. I am happy to wagon him, as his failure to pass to TMH is pretty damning, but I'm not 100% on it.

[Saint]

Oh. I had been speculating about shotgunned, purged, and DGB's number
he seemed to directly address a few of the issues I have brought up recently
I guess my setup speculation is so good that the moderator answers me, or players ask about it
I really must have missed your questioning, which is a shame, because I have tried to read this entire game with a fine-toothed comb.

Do you plan on voting CKD, pops?

[Saint]

If you are pushing DGB, and you don't want to push CKD, do you feel there are scum on the CKD wagon? (the 4 voters)
if so, how many? (out of 4)

[Saint]

Has that neighbor QT become public?

I would certainly agree that DGBtown is more aggressive than DGBscum. I've played with both DGB alignments.

Right here.

I'm going to go after a single scummy player, and so should you, and it should be the same one, and that player we're after should be the one to die.

Why? We don't want to threaten anyone that will make it to night, and kill us to shut us up.

OH yes, and don't jump on the first wagon. I won't. The first wagon is almost never the lynch. We should concentrate our efforts on the second wagon of the day, and seriously narrow down our suspicions.

If anyone else seems scummy, we can defend them weakly if possible, we don't want to irritate the scum.

Then try to diffuse some of your suspicions, keeping in mind that scumbags are real touchy when their names are brought up.

We should go all in on wagon #2, whoever the victim is. We have to make a good case, though, sorta in the middle of the wagon, each of us with different arguments.

I fyou see yesterday, I totally tunneled on a single player. I do that as town when I think a player is scum, but here my reason was that whoever I'd been making nervous all day long, had to die, because if he didn't, I'd be dead the next morning.

...I need to be scum more often. The longer this goes on, the more I realize I actually have no idea how to play this game.

I think I understand where this is going. Theoretically, the Mafia have no reason to kill us if we tunnel on Townies... and if we tunnel on Mafia, at least we won't be the ones that started the wagon, so there should be someone less suspicious than us to NK... right?

Dropping hammers where possible is not explicitly mentioned here, although it's a strategy that leads from the above. Shamelessly jumping on the wagons where you can least be held accountable is an idea I had much earlier from Porkens' play in this game.

Goofball's rebuttal is a technicality at best.

I really don't like spilling others' personal strategies like this, but she asked for it.

---

Pops, I have been consistent, I think we have a scum team of around 5 players, and an SK/Hero which is DGB.

You didn't read where the mod just rebutted the Hero idea, right?
And you do realize that with 12 players alive, we don't necessarily need to attempt to lynch groupscum if we're guaranteed to hit an SK?

If by D5 there is evidence that this is a multifaction game - and there are a couple of ways this can happen - you're going to be the next lynch unless Goofball is still alive.

[Saint]

I didn't lie
who are you kidding?
I am immune to that.

[Saint]

haven't read your entire post, yet, DGB... but I wanted to hit on this from Vi:
"the mod rebutted your DGB-hero case"

rebutted, but not rebuked
it is still definitely possible, and any decent mod would sit on the fence like kunk has

we need to lynch SCUM-CKD, or somehow activate the dayvig/virus and off Q21 from my perspective/FoS

I'm going to respond to DGB's large post in a moment

[Saint]

Dropping hammers where possible

is not explicitly mentioned here

Thank you for admitting that you lied.

well, given that passivity and hesitance only leads to scum dying...
yeah...
that's a recent trend that has fallen on its face, honestly, so I see where Vi is coming from with that point.
I don't feel like it was a misrepresentation or a lie whatsoever. In fact, I feel like you are misunderstanding.

[Saint]

Dropping hammers where possible

is not explicitly mentioned here

Thank you for admitting that you lied.

Anything for you, Goofy~
(Cut by Furc and Goofball: Shouldn't you be arguing with the person who actually said that?)

I will hammer CKD. Hahahahahhahahaha.

Called it.

SK witch-hunts are always scum-driven, they have to coordinate during the day because they can't NK a SK. Every other threat, they can sit back and NK. They have to gang up on SKs.

Friendly reminder: If q21 is Mafia, it's impossible for Saint to be Mafia.
So it should be more obvious than usual that not everyone calling you out to be lynched is scum.

haven't read your entire post, yet, DGB... but I wanted to hit on this from Vi:
"the mod rebutted your DGB-hero case"

rebutted, but not rebuked
it is still definitely possible, and any decent mod would sit on the fence like kunk has

I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.

The basis of the DGb-Town Hero argument is the opening argument. Neither more nor less.

[Saint]

*opening flavor

[Saint]

Okay this is getting old.

Saint passed to q21 N1.

[Saint]

Anyways, are you claiming SK? It appears you are softclaiming it.
As scum, I tend to accuse the SK of being mafia, personally. I refuse to rant about SKs, I feel it is a slip as well. So, I guess I'm agreeing with you on that as well.

The fact we share the same 3 reads, and gamestyle sense, is sort of shocking.
Vi pushing you, while I'm defending you, just shows the difference in opinion.

Want to bet the mafia tried to kill you in the night?

"VI Wrote: I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.

The basis of the DGb-Town Hero argument is the opening argument. Neither more nor less."

DGB being the SK =/= DGB can't be the town hero
When the scum are winning, playing to the town can be the only way for an SK to win sometimes. It is possible to shrug off a leash. SK kills take priority, usually, and scum can end up in a rough pickle. With the way the powers cycle, scum may end up having to give something up to town/sk even, so you can't directly accuse them of playing against their win con even as SK helping town in a scenario like this where town are in a dismal spot.

Also, the mod was only admitting he is sitting on a fence, and not confirming anything. He is not saying anything regarding anyones alignment. Do you blame him? this is a moot point. Perhaps I'm wrong about the tone implying rebuking, but it is really irrelevant.

DGB wrote: "Is that your point of view now? Scum dying is a bad thing?"
You know what I meant, it is a general gametrend
I don't mind it being incorporated, if it is a part of your meta. She knows your meta better than I do.
If you have a scumread on Q21, our slot should be clear to you. How come, if you are not scum, you are acting so incredibly anti-town? The only way you could both be this anti-town, yet still have good scumhunting skills to where you have the same reads as me would be if you are the SK.

Couple my refusal to talk about the SK (as seen in the Mafia Holographica quicktime) as scum, even instructing VV to call plum scum, NOT SK, when I knew she was an SK (by gut), should show that I wouldn't go on "an SK-witch-hunt" as scum. I would be all for letting the rest of the group do my job for me. THEREFORE, the fact I suspect you as an SK and am willing to talk about how you are an SK is more indicative of me being town than of me being scum as it is in my meta to routinely cast the light of scum on people I feel are SKs when I am scum. The fact that the only option for you is anti-town, even if you are town, is very saddening.

[Saint]

it also disproves your theory that scum will be openly SK witch hunting, as I refuse to do that as scum, and am doing that as town right now. So, basically, your conspiracy theory isn't even a conspiracy at all.

[Saint]

(Reposting from hydra thread.
I don't think it's ethical for hydra players to quote each others' private communications, but this is all ME speaking in one post.)

----

I wouldn't mind a ckd flip, but Goofball is obviously better because she's more obviously scum.

Or another way, Goofball is definitely scum while ckd is only reasonably likely to be scum.

So with that in mind it's never NOT a good time to wagon Goofball

I'm concerned about the possibility that IAI is scum with Goofball, though. Consider that IAI's plans don't involve Goofball dying -at all- unless she hits q21 N4... which is an easy request to fulfill.

However... there is the Tree Stump. Right now we technically only have 11 people alive.
Assuming that the Tree Stump always goes to a Townie, is presently in the hands of a Townie, and never gets Voided...

NOW - 7-3-1
Assuming a lynch on Goofball-SK: 7-3 N4
6-3 D5
5-3 N5
4-3 D6
We get at least two Days to hit scum even with the Tree Stump in play, plus the path of the Stump should be enlightening with regards to who passes to whom [clarification: because the Stump should be passed to suspected scum each Night]. This is, again, assuming the Tree Stump never gets passed to scum.

Assuming a lynch on Goofball-second-scumgroup isn't as good if we lynch Town from there unless the scum begin crosskilling. But if scum start crosskilling, then it looks REALLY good (although subsequent passing becomes meaningless).

The chance of Goofball being Town may as well not be considered. She didn't even argue that she's playing to her scum meta.

---

There are times where lynching the correct kind of scum makes the difference between winning and losing the game. This is not one of them.

[Saint]

IF WE DON'T LYNCH HER, THOUGH, IT COULD BE LYLO TOMORROW AT 4v3v1

vote: DGB

[Saint]

I'm really hating this treestump
the fact it is Q21 really makes it juicy for vig-bait
Oh where for art thou, dayvig?

[Saint]

IF WE DON'T LYNCH HER, THOUGH, IT COULD BE LYLO TOMORROW AT 4v3v1

(Just so it's clear - lynch Townie, two Town kills, Tree Stump is on Townie.

It doesn't have to be as bad as that to still be conditional LyLo though.)

[Saint]

IF WE DON'T LYNCH HER, THOUGH, IT COULD BE LYLO TOMORROW AT 4v3v1

vote: DGB

That's insane.

There aren't two full scum teams. There's only one scum team. What are the chances that no other scum team has had a lynch or a crosskill? Like, zero.

more misrepresentation
the 4 would be the town, and that is worst case scenario, as in if the town let you off the hook today we might end up paying for it through being forced between lynching on a 50/50 lynch to everyone

(assume you're in the 4 town, with 3 scum, and DGB as SK...):
you will see 3 town, 3 scum, and an obv-sk
ignoring DGB, as an obv-sk, and writing that off, you are left with 3 town and 3 scum
hence it would be 50:50 on whether or not the town win from every person's perspective.

Factor in Furcolow is in the game, nearing lylo, and the town are truly on a treacherous slope. (lol)
We really need to deal with this situation right now, as opposed to appealing to DGB to let us pull a leash around her neck. Do you all see DGB as a town-pet/mascot-sk? I don't.

IAI, hope you don't defend her, bro.

[Saint]

This is REALLY getting old.

Not to mention how you'd be leaving Q21-tree-stump and CKD treestump-fail alive.

This move might cost the town the game.

Indeed we would be leaving q21 and ckd alive... for one Day.

Are you afraid that I might NK Q21, and Q21 may be town, and failing to confirm you? Are you worried about this?

CKD is total obv scum. You think there's any chance he's town?

You saying I'm misrepping you is a little rich, after you lied about things I didn't say in some old QT. Get a grip, if you're town.

I'm town, and none of these scenarios you are fearmongering are going to happen.

EPIC FLAIL

If IAI doesn't call Goofball out on any of this I will... not be surprised at all, actually.

Time's up, lets do this, LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEROYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY JENKINS!

Unvote
Vote: ckd

IAI+GOOFBALL+LMP
-versus-
TMH+REDCOYOTE+???

THE EPIC BATTLE RAGES ON

[Saint]

*remembers sign that says "Do Not Feed The Trolls"*

I'll be happy to speak to anyone else at this point.

[Saint]

*remembers sign that says "Do Not Feed The Trolls"*

I'll be happy to speak to anyone else at this point.

Clarification because someone's going to ask -
Arguing with Goofball about her being scum is pointless; it's an argument I can't win. But I *can* convince other people to vote her.
That's a much better use of my time and patience.

[Saint]

I was wondering how long you were going to wait before deciding on a reaction to that.

So now that I have your attention, why are you glossing over Goofball being scum in favor of pushing ckd through?
I've very neatly outlined why she's scum and why she's a better lynch.

[Saint]

Oh, sorry, I thought that said "EPIC FAIL" Cause that's what it is, not EPIC FLAIL. That's different.

This is 2011. Nobody should say EPIC FAIL except ironically.

@Saint: ckd is scum. DGB is probably scum. The difference is massive.

Almost. The difference WOULD be massive.
What makes ckd defscum while Goofball only probscum?

[Saint]

1) We told CKD to pass the treestump to TMH.
2) CKD did not pass the treestump to TMH.
3) TMH flipped scum.
4) Scum cannot pass abilities to their buddies.

This sequence of events has no logical explanation but that CKD and TMH are buddies. There are plenty of other reasons why too.

Yes, between the failure to pass to tmh and generally not existing since sometime in Day 2 there's quite a bit of reason to believe that ckd is scum, and only a fragment of Page 4 words to defend him.

Contrast that with Goofball, who has been all but positively identified as scum and (separately) a killing element.

The difference looks like:
*ckd has a snowball's chance in Florida of being Town
*Goofball has a snowball's chance in Hell of being Town
*A Goofball lynch, if SK, would reduce the number of night-killing elements in the game by 1, slowing LyLo even with the Tree Stump still in play. If second scumgroup, it would cast everything that has been done during the Day and the Night so far in a completely different light.
Therefore a Goofball lynch is not only more likely to hit scum, but also more likely to help Town.

@Saint: Do you honestly believe DGB is part of a second scum team and not a SK? What evidence do you have of this?

There is no evidence. It's a possibility at best. We can find out by lynching Goofball, of course.

[Saint]

We have a dead bad guy (TMH) and someone who was told and agreed to send a role to him. They failed to do so. It ("randomly") ended up in what many players consider a very town player.

This is true.

You admit to being totally wrong this game, say you are going to follow mine and DGB's lead, and now you do a 180. I'm wondering if I have you and Pops mixed up after all...

Circumstances have changed since I said that. For instance, Goofball is all but guaranteed to be scum.

Saint/vi, your analysis on the previous page shows we are at 11 players currently, I believe it is 12, no?

Read the assumptions again.

Saint/vi, you said that DGB was the likely target last night, but yet survived? How could that be if he did not have the Hibernate Ability and PleaseLynchMe said he protected me?

I'm reasonably sure you're speaking to the wrong Saint head. Regardless, SK+NK-immunity.

Given that there's no guarantee of SK+NK-immunity I'm willing to buy that you were targeted by <shotgunned>. You'll have to talk to Furc separately.

Until I see Goofball flip I'm not completely sold on you-Town.

DGB has been told to take out q21, and the treestump. Anyone else being purged is an autolynch D5.

We can have CKD, q21, and the treestump gone by the beginning of D5 or we can have DGB. Which sounds better?

That depends on whether ckd and q21 are scum, which isn't particularly debated...
More importantly, there's a flaw to trying to control an outed SK. The SK knows that from Town's POV she has to get lynched sometime before it obviously becomes too late; saying she'll get autolynched if she fails to fulfill her end of the job implies that she isn't already an autolynch for D5. (cut by pops saying the same thing) Even if she reaches LyLo, she doesn't necessarily pick up the win (she would need NK-immunity, normally). In this game, Goofball-SK's chance of victory requires that Tree Stump to stay in the game. There's no reason to believe she would aim for the Stump, instead either targeting whoever she could most likely get away with (me) or claiming to be Roleblocked. Granted, she can still be Tracked, but there are better things we could be doing with the Tracker than checking on known scum.

If we've established that ckd and q21 are both scum, we can easily lynch them on subsequent Days with scum:Town death parity. There is no such guarantee if we leave Goofball alive.

[Saint]

Of course, if Goofball is part of a scumgroup then the interactions this Day become what you could call "quite telling", and it allows us to correct for assuming scum+SK sooner. So that's another plus to lynching her now.

[Saint]

As furc has explained

I got lost somewhere in pops' 1) and 2) but the last paragraph is correct at least.

[Saint]

Saint, so you think I'm SK, which I am not.

Are you afraid that I might NK Q21, and Q21 may be town, and failing to confirm you? Are you worried about this?

CKD is total obv scum. You think there's any chance he's town?

You saying I'm misrepping you is a little rich, after you lied about things I didn't say in some old QT. Get a grip, if you're town.

I'm town, and none of these scenarios you are fearmongering are going to happen.

No, I'm worried you won't do

anything we ask of you

if you believe q21 is scum, then you believe we are town
if q21 is town, however, we are still town

it is irrelevant
i am astonished that people are seeking an avenue away from the SK, the more I crunch the numbers, it is really not beneficial to do anything else here. If we're left at 8v3, at least passing the treestump to the void is a possibility.

[Saint]

Saint,

Back off.

If you're town, back off.

You're getting in the way of awesome, the kind of awesome that leads to little titles under one's name

Where are Q21 and CKD in your little scenario, there?

Suddenly, nowhere?

How do you go from me being 100% SK in the bag, to a whole scum group? A scum group with IAI??? IAI, who is townier than anyone can claim to be?

CKD and Q21 are town, now? GET REAL.

town don't generally get flourished with awesome powers
awesome =/= town
awesome is much more likely to be bestowed upon someone for a good SK win.

So, basically, you are arguing for your own lynch here. I know you are

trying

to imply it is for the town's good, but my heart is screaming "no, no, no"

[Saint]

1) We told CKD to pass the treestump to TMH.
2) CKD did not pass the treestump to TMH.
3) TMH flipped scum.
4) Scum cannot pass abilities to their buddies.

This sequence of events has no logical explanation but that CKD and TMH are buddies. There are plenty of other reasons why too.

@Saint: Do you honestly believe DGB is part of a second scum team and not a SK? What evidence do you have of this?

1) CKD was inactive on the site
2) night phased ends
3) CKD returns and goes "oh, fuck, i'm so going to get mislynched for this"

THAT'S NOT A POSSIBILITY?
DGB has claimed multiple kills, in a game with cyclable abilities.

[Saint]

1) We told CKD to pass the treestump to TMH.
2) CKD did not pass the treestump to TMH.
3) TMH flipped scum.
4) Scum cannot pass abilities to their buddies.

This sequence of events has no logical explanation but that CKD and TMH are buddies. There are plenty of other reasons why too.

Yes, between the failure to pass to tmh and generally not existing since sometime in Day 2 there's quite a bit of reason to believe that ckd is scum, and only a fragment of Page 4 words to defend him.

Contrast that with Goofball, who has been all but positively identified as scum and (separately) a killing element.

The difference looks like:
*ckd has a snowball's chance in Florida of being Town
*Goofball has a snowball's chance in Hell of being Town
*A Goofball lynch, if SK, would reduce the number of night-killing elements in the game by 1, slowing LyLo even with the Tree Stump still in play. If second scumgroup, it would cast everything that has been done during the Day and the Night so far in a completely different light.
Therefore a Goofball lynch is not only more likely to hit scum, but also more likely to help Town.

Regarding the last line, I respectfully disagree.

DGB has been told to take out q21, and the treestump. Anyone else being purged is an autolynch D5.

We can have CKD, q21, and the treestump gone by the beginning of D5 or we can have DGB. Which sounds better?

"Saint, your analysis on the previous page shows we are at 11 players currently, I believe it is 12, no?"
treestump.

so 8v3v1 ->lynch on ckd, he flips town, just failing to send an action in (speculation)
7v3v1->
(Assuming dgb is SK, not a far-fetched assumption) we tell DGB to kill Q21, she does not
5v3v1
lylo, what's up? how are you? oh, wait one of you is a treestump!
it will either be 4v3v1, 5v2v1

Actually, CKD lynch isn't really bad if he flips scum
8(7 with treestump possibly)v2v1
so 7v2v1 then the night kills
5v2v1, if DGB doesnt hit correctly
->lynch dgb 5v2->
4v2, mylo->nolynch->
3v2 lylo
so, your theory of putting off the DGB lynch, and lynching SK, will still not even buy is a no lynch unless she complies

if she complies, and it ends up in 5 town (one of which handicapped by voting, so kinda 4), vs 1 goon, and 1 SK... with her already being caught... I don't see that as being beneficial to her situation. Her best options are NOT going with the town's plan, and killing someone who is both active and obv-town.

Best case scenario in this is if DGB hits q21 and he flips scum on the night kills, like i've said, at 5v1v1 in the above
at which case, we will have under 20% to lynch scum in terms of probability. mislynch->
4v1v1->nightkills
->lylo

best case scenario, we buy 1 lynch, and that's WITH CKD as scum, AND DGB doing what we want, BOTH of which are very questionable.

However, DGB being the SK is almost certain. If we eliminate her, and are at 8v3, look at THAT?
7v3 -> lynch
6v3 -> hit
5v3 -> mylo
4v3 -> lylo

Well, I guess we only get 1 lynch this way anyways.
8v3v1 -> lynch ckd, assuming he is scum
8v2v1 -> night ->
6v2v1 or 7v1v1
^lynch dgb ^dont lynch dgb?
I mean, are we ever going to let her off?
6v2v1 where she won't hit q21
6v2->
5v2-> here is our one mislynch
4v2 -> night kill ->
lylo

Still, we only have 1 mislynch past this day cycle, even if we nab scum correctly and get the treestump out of the way.

NL
8v3v1
6v3v1 -> lynch dgb for lying not hitting q21scum
6v3->5v3mylo
yeah, if DGB doesn't comply we are pushed to lylo

7v2v1 DGB complying after no lynch, killing q21scum, treestump voided (best case scenario)
6v2v1(mislynch) or 6v1v1 (lynching scum) or 6v2 (lynching DGB anyways)
6v2v1 -> 4v2v1 conditional mylo/lylo, yuck.
6v1v1 -> 4v1v1, still mylo where it can be 1 town 1 sk 1 mafia... yuck

6v2, after dgb lynch here (her doing the right thing, nonetheless)
5v2 -> mislynch
4v2 -> mylo
3v2 -> lylo

This is all useless speculation, because we can't trust DGB to be helpful past this one kill, if even then (what if she just does what she wants?)

Sure, her best scenario to win is through killing Q21 and the town getting the treestump voided, but even with the waters muddied that way, I don't really see a benefit in the town keeping her around even then. Going ahead and lynching her, if she is the SK, is simply the best option. I have factored in so many different scenarios in the above, but there is no way I can factor in people being obv-town due to flips and passalongs, so this isn't as bad for the town as I thought. Possibly getting it to 6v1v1, if DGB complies, and we lynch CKDscum... well... then Saint/implosion are cleared, and that leaves us with at least 1 clear just from Q21 flipping scum alone

[Saint]

*note bunnylover is probably the first scum on the DGB-SK wagon

[Saint]

1) We told CKD to pass the treestump to TMH.
2) CKD did not pass the treestump to TMH.
3) TMH flipped scum.
4) Scum cannot pass abilities to their buddies.

This sequence of events has no logical explanation but that CKD and TMH are buddies. There are plenty of other reasons why too.

Yes, between the failure to pass to tmh and generally not existing since sometime in Day 2 there's quite a bit of reason to believe that ckd is scum, and only a fragment of Page 4 words to defend him.

Contrast that with Goofball, who has been all but positively identified as scum and (separately) a killing element.

The difference looks like:
*ckd has a snowball's chance in Florida of being Town
*Goofball has a snowball's chance in Hell of being Town
*A Goofball lynch, if SK, would reduce the number of night-killing elements in the game by 1, slowing LyLo even with the Tree Stump still in play. If second scumgroup, it would cast everything that has been done during the Day and the Night so far in a completely different light.
Therefore a Goofball lynch is not only more likely to hit scum, but also more likely to help Town.

Regarding the last line, I respectfully disagree.

DGB has been told to take out q21, and the treestump. Anyone else being purged is an autolynch D5.

We can have CKD, q21, and the treestump gone by the beginning of D5 or we can have DGB. Which sounds better?

You're ASSUMING DGB is going to comply with you
-I'll tell you now she isn't, as our best option would then be to lynch her anyways, being obv sk

basically, we're gonna get one mislynch. the only thing that can save us is confirmation. Q21 dying will confirm us/implosion, like i've said.

What I propose is an in-depth analysis of whose death would lead to the most confirmations

[Saint]

There is too evidence. Occam's razor and process of elimination suggests two scumteams.
1. TownDGB neither has control of a perpetual nightkill nor lies about her abilities.
2. SKDGB doesn't claim her nightkill because it proves (1), and guarantees a lynch in SK lylo. Furthermore, the SK strategy that Vi copypasted from DGB's former QT says that DGBSK keeps a low profile and tries to tick neither scum nor town off. Claiming a nightkill doesn't fit that mold.
3. ScumDGB doesn't mind "proving" herself "SK", because it creates a lynch desire that's easily procrastinated to the point that her unscarred, unknown faction swings directly to victory. ScumDGB could also have a role interaction involving a teammate to protect her from nightkills, perhaps the ability remover of confusing mechanics does it somehow even. ScumDGB sees ckd lynch all lined up, and sees her place in the queue. It's the most plausible thing.


-cut-

IAI, why do you still expect a player who has claimed SK to be motivated by threat of delayed lynches?

Pops, how are you for sure she got nightkilled?
I was speculating that, considering mafia didn't hit one night, it being a possible hit on DGB.
The fact you are arguing against her being the SK makes me believe you are scum trying to muddy the waters. It is really a forgone conclusion, given that she tried to game cyclable abilities as an SK with "a good fakeclaim"

more like a good failclaim

[Saint]

#2423, and #2424 into #2428(pops vote, wherever that was)
these read as if bunnylover and pops have been conversing in a quicktime to me

[Saint]

Saint/vi, last page you called out a DGB, PleaseLynchMe, and IAI scum team.

DGB passed an ability to PleaseLynchMe. Care to reconsider?

That time I wanted LMP's attention. I already saw that it was impossible.

Although now that you mention it if he can't be aligned with Goofball and he stopped the "shotgunned" kill, LMP is confTown no matter what.

Assuming CKD hops on the competing bandwagon, we have Scum suspects {BL, Pops, Saint, and CKD} on the DGB wagon.

My first thought was to mention something about arrogance... and it's my second thought too. But...

curiouskarmadog (5

[+2]

) -

implosion,

WrathChild,

I Am Innocent,

StrangerCoug,

LynchMePls,

[

nhammen

,

DrippingGoofball

]

DrippingGoofball (3

[+2]

) -

Saint,

Bunnylover,

popsofctown,

[

curiouskarmadog,

q21

]

*Black - Green if Goofball-SK, Red if Goofball-second team

...you do have a point.

[Saint]

So, you're admitting refusal to see obvious-SK given the setup, the failed vigilante claim, the flavor, and the genera-town-consensus?
cool, you're not scum, pops
/sarcasm

[Saint]

HOWEVER, we can work together to lynch scum, in this scenario
pragmatic, indeed!

[Saint]

Actually, to be quite honest,

[doing whatever she wants]

describes what DGB does with every alignment, in every game, and probably even in every minute of her day to day life.

I can't really fault that...~

Just a thought. If we lynch CKD and they flip Mafia it will confirm at least two townies. If we lynch DGB and she flips SK it will confirm no one. DGB, if she is an SK, will have ZERO passing restrictions. I think at least two confirmed townies are more beneficial then preventing the death of 1 by lynching the SK tonight. What if DGB hits scum tonight? How else are we going to get rid of the tresstump. I'm not the only one saying these things, but I wanted to reiterate them.

You are correct that you're not the only person saying these things.
You're also not the only person COMPLETELY IGNORING MY RESPONSES TO THEM. But I'm not bitter.

But what if Q21 is town, and you're scum? Maybe you should be purged.

This is the part where IAI says something profound, I think.~

Are there any reasons why

you

shouldn't be purged?

*implication that she or someone she has authority over is in charge of Purging

(Minus the fact that otherwise sensible people are completely ignoring me, I'm kind of enjoying this.)

[Saint]

Assuming CKD hops on the competing bandwagon, we have Scum suspects {BL, Pops, Saint, and CKD} on the DGB wagon.

My townie list X nhammen on the other wagon.

Yes I feel good about the CKD flip. nhammen and DGB should seal it...

I'm more then sure no one is aguring the fact that CKD will flip scum.
The whole thing is do we kill DGB first (I think so) or kill CKD? And by kill, I mean lynch.

I'm not sold on it, yet
He is perfectly capable of being incapable as town

[Saint]

DGB vs. Saint is full of useless; after the beginning, the same points just get repeated. Yes, I get that there is evidence pointing to DGB being a SK. You don't need to be repeating that point so much. The signal to noise ratio of this argument is extremely low. And it is making it difficult to read.

It's okay to skim. I should have stopped myself sooner from arguing with scum.

That is the crux of the argument. Which one is more likely to be scum than the other. There are reasons to suspect both, but it is very difficult to say who is worse. Both of you responding like the answer is obvious does nothing to help the situation.

Goofball is automatically worse because she's an independent killing element.

If you want to think more about it, there's at least an off-off-off-chance that ckd is playing an unredeemingly bad game. The chance of Goofball being able to back up her claims of being Town is zero.

And now you too. How do both you and pops know who the shotgun targeted last night?

I don't. At the same time, it's a very plausible explanation, one of two-and-a-quarter possible explanations (Hibernate and SK+NK-immunity being the others), and for right now I'm willing to go with it.

...wait.

Why would scum shoot IAI when he was holding the Tree Stump?

Meh, we'll worry about that later.

I agree with his point, although, personally I would switch the colors of pops and Coug, and I'm not even sure what pink means. Is it more or less scummy than orange?

Pink is slightly less scummy than maroon and much less scummy than puce.

As long as LMP is the one who blocked the shotgun kill he's confTown.
If Goofball flips SK and LMP blocked the shotgun IAI is confTown (and probably Town regardless of the shotgun hit provided Goofball flips SK).
You pointed out the Ability Cop subtlety, which gave you massive points IMO.
implosion has been a Town read from D1; although he's a blind spot right now I'm having a hard time caring.
I'm Saint.
I'm consistently getting half-clueless Town reads from Bunnylover and WrathChild.
pops is somewhere in the middle, leaning Town. Everyone is tripping over their arguments ITT, so that's not really a big negative. Iunno, at risk of sounding suspect words aren't coming to me for this one.
StrangerCoug is lurking like a boss and sheeping onto the ckd wagon. Between pops actively arguing for Goofball's lynch and Coug saying "screw it" and preaching to the choir, why yes Coug looks much worse.
q21 is a decently scummy read and hasn't done anything to stop it. It's possible that he's Town but not enough so that I would care if he died.
ckd would have to be playing the worst game of his career to be Town here. And I've seen some bad ckd-Town games.~
Goofball is blindingly obvious scum trying to bluff her way out of a lynch. Really, did you not see how her first line of defense was "I have an ability, you can't lynch me", or how she's softclaiming that she still has the Purge ability (never mind that she said she cycled it away), or how she's never actually argued against why she's being called scum except to insist that she's not, or how her latest line of defense is to throw accuse her attackers of being scum because they aren't arguing properly? I'm impressed with how she's trying to buck IAI's command to Purge q21 only - especially when both me AND pops have pointed out why as SK she has no reason to do that.

[Saint]

DGB, WHY ARE YOU MISREPRESENTING THE DAYVIG?
IT WENT TO THE VOID IIRC

[Saint]

therefore, SC is by no means clear, and should not be colored blue

[Saint]

If you expect me to be a SK, you'd expect me to be un-nightkillable, right? So you have to put double time to have me lynched.

SK's aren't always nightkill-immune. Be careful suggesting this.

So nice of you to join us.

I don't consider this a claim, but maybe I am letting DGB off the hook a little too much just cuz she is acting like DGB.

She's acting like Goofball-SCUM. I even said this in giant letters so people wouldn't miss it.

q21 needs to die tonight. However, you have stated that you believe pops to be more scummy than ckd. Does this mean you are changing the plan to pops lynch and q21 purge?

Are there any reasons why

you

[pops]

shouldn't be purged? You're awfully insistent that Q21 needs to die.

That would be a "no".

Come on, this is a slowball here.

[Saint]

therefore, SC is by no means clear, and should not be colored blue

TMH passed somthing to SC, no?

I'm impressed; you asked a question and then immediately answered it.

TMH passed Dayvig to the Void N2. Coug picked it up out of the Void. There was no explicit handoff.

Whether Coug knew at the time that the Dayvig would be functionally useless is another question altogether.

after the scum NKs me

wafl

[Saint]

Also, go look up StrangerCoug's activity.

Is he active onsite? Very much so.

Is he active in this thread? Very much NOT.

Did he try to under-radar hop onto the ckd wagon? Very much so.

[Saint]

TMH passed Dayvig to the Void N2. Coug picked it up out of the Void. There was no explicit handoff.

I already said I did not pull the dayvig out of the void. My doing so would have made it clear to me that I had to pass it; therefore, its recipient would not likely have been randomized last night.

Whichever. Would you like to talk about something relevant to the thread?

Hey Saint

What do you think of pops?

Low tier Town read. 5th on scumlist IIRC.

[Saint]

pops: Your thoughts on StrangerCoug?

[Saint]

Too scummy to be(Too scummy to be(too scummy to be(too scummy be scum)))

In english, he's probscum. He's trying to convince that he doesn't like to play mafia. But I think StrangerCoug likes to play mafia. He may not like to play scum though.

That sounds reasonable, in spite of Coug's rebuttal.

If my win percentages haven't changed by much, I actually do fairly well as scum; that's why my Wiki says I prefer

this

alignment.

"This", or "that"?

Yeah. What's taking curiouskarmadog so long to comply with my request,

Funny you should mention that. While looking to see if pops' description of your play could also apply to q21 and ckd, I already looked up their activity. They're as active here as they are elsewhere onsite (in other words, not much).

I'm willing to buy that ckd hasn't done what you asked because he hasn't been here to do it.

So, following question. Why aren't you voting Goofball?

[Saint]

If you expect me to be a SK, you'd expect me to be un-nightkillable, right? So you have to put double time to have me lynched.

SK's aren't always nightkill-immune. Be careful suggesting this.

So nice of you to join us.

I don't consider this a claim, but maybe I am letting DGB off the hook a little too much just cuz she is acting like DGB.

She's acting like Goofball-SCUM. I even said this in giant letters so people wouldn't miss it.

q21 needs to die tonight. However, you have stated that you believe pops to be more scummy than ckd. Does this mean you are changing the plan to pops lynch and q21 purge?

Are there any reasons why

you

[pops]

shouldn't be purged? You're awfully insistent that Q21 needs to die.

That would be a "no".

Come on, this is a slowball here.

It also fits in line with what I've been saying she would try to do, weasel out of her softclaim
Obvscum is Obv

[Saint]

therefore, SC is by no means clear, and should not be colored blue

TMH passed somthing to SC, no?

Do you know what a void collector does?
I haven't even

had

it, and I do
YOU, HOWEVER, HAVE. QUIT BEING COY.
If you haven't, then, if you had read a little, maybe you would understand.

Also, there was a bus driver. It is not clear-cut. I understand why people are voting CKD for this reasoning, but DGB isn't like this as town. She lurks as town. See: SA2, for instance

[Saint]

q21 needs to die tonight. However, you have stated that you believe pops to be more scummy than ckd. Does this mean you are changing the plan to pops lynch and q21 purge?

pops lynch and Q21 purge, that would be my personal preference. Mostly because pops might be more able to get away with it tomorrow, after the scum NKs me and I'm not there to scream for him to get rope. I'm pretty sure you'll be delighted to lynch CKD without my assistance.

Practically begging for CKD votes here

[Saint]

therefore, SC is by no means clear, and should not be colored blue

TMH passed somthing to SC, no?

No, TMH got lynched. His ability went to the void, and I got its collector. We've said this several times now.

Oh, yes. I shouldn't have colored you blue, then.

ha
HA
HAAA!

...? I'm good.

[Saint]

therefore, SC is by no means clear, and should not be colored blue

TMH passed somthing to SC, no?

I'm impressed; you asked a question and then immediately answered it.

TMH passed Dayvig to the Void N2. Coug picked it up out of the Void. There was no explicit handoff.

Whether Coug knew at the time that the Dayvig would be functionally useless is another question altogether.

after the scum NKs me

wafl

I'm impressed with myself.
You all should be.
I am feeling like a pro right now. Pro-fess-

ional

.

[Saint]

Also, go look up StrangerCoug's activity.

Is he active onsite? Very much so.

Is he active in this thread? Very much NOT.

Did he try to under-radar hop onto the ckd wagon? Very much so.

perhaps he has an ability

[Saint]

Hey Saint

What do you think of pops?

scum

TMH passed Dayvig to the Void N2. Coug picked it up out of the Void. There was no explicit handoff.

I already said I did not pull the dayvig out of the void. My doing so would have made it clear to me that I had to pass it; therefore, its recipient would not likely have been randomized last night.

power role softclaim
SC, out with it
It's late enough, lets get all our information out onto the table.
We, at most, have 1 mislynch

it is the time to get down to business
I am asking you to do this as town, believe it or not, because I feel you are scum and will lie in which I will catch you up on it. However, I don't even care if you know what I'm doing. You might pass.

[Saint]

TMH passed Dayvig to the Void N2. Coug picked it up out of the Void. There was no explicit handoff.

I already said I did not pull the dayvig out of the void. My doing so would have made it clear to me that I had to pass it; therefore, its recipient would not likely have been randomized last night.

Whichever. Would you like to talk about something relevant to the thread?

Hey Saint

What do you think of pops?

Low tier Town read. 5th on scumlist IIRC.

That's how I feel about SC somewhat. I want to hear more from him, but it may be the medic-complex where I'm finding a townie with a power role (i mean, they cycle) scummy, when he actually

isn't

[Saint]

Too scummy to be(Too scummy to be(too scummy to be(too scummy be scum)))

In english, he's probscum. He's trying to convince that he doesn't like to play mafia. But I think StrangerCoug likes to play mafia. He may not like to play scum though.

WHOAH
I don't like this response!

[Saint]

TMH passed Dayvig to the Void N2. Coug picked it up out of the Void. There was no explicit handoff.

I already said I did not pull the dayvig out of the void. My doing so would have made it clear to me that I had to pass it; therefore, its recipient would not likely have been randomized last night.

Whichever. Would you like to talk about something relevant to the thread?

Yeah. What's taking curiouskarmadog so long to comply with my request, and why isn't DrippingGoofball in an insane asylum? Looking at the latter's posting, she seems to crack under being pressured with SK accusations when the two most likely alignments she are are that and a second Mafia group.

In english, he's probscum. He's trying to convince that he doesn't like to play mafia. But I think StrangerCoug likes to play mafia. He may not like to play scum though.

If my win percentages haven't changed by much, I actually do fairly well as scum; that's why my Wiki says I prefer this alignment. The problem I'm having is that I tend to do better early on in the game.

WHOAH
REREAD THE BOLDED.
I MEAN, I'M NOT GOING TO, BUT SERIOUSLY?
I'M GOOD

SC+POPS OBVIOUS SCUMTEAM IS OBVIOUS

[Saint]

If my win percentages haven't changed by much, I actually do fairly well as scum; that's why my Wiki says I prefer

this

alignment. The problem I'm having is that I tend to do better early on in the game.

THIS alignment
...

this

alignment
scumslip

[Saint]

I think it very well may be.

hmmm
perhaps

[Saint]

if you can conceive it, i better believe it, because you have a scum-pm and deductive reasoning

[Saint]

Is it just me or does saint have over half the posts in this day? The spamming is making me a bit glassy eyed.

With all due respect to my hydra partner, read the ones in blue text. <_<

I can even hit the highlights for you.

-IF YOU'VE BEEN SKIMMING/SKIPPING SAINT POSTS FOR THE LAST TEN PAGES, THIS IS THE IMPORTANT STUFF-

1) Saint had the Ability Cop N3. We investigated q21, and came back that he had 0 abilities. nhammen immediately pointed out that this confirmed q21 as Town. I checked with the mod on it, and found that nhammen was incorrect on this - he was interpreting the mod's clarification of his ability incorrectly. So q21 is not confirmed Town, but nhammen looks much better for the effort.

2) DrippingGoofball is not only playing to her scum meta, she's making no effort to hide it whatsoever. The mod has wiped the possibility of her being a Town Hero based on the opening flavor. She knows she's caught. She can't and won't argue it. She CAN weasel out of it, and you don't have to look very hard to see that's precisely what she's trying to do.

3) DrippingGoofball is the better lynch Today, part 1. Aside from being THE most likely person to be scum, even assuming the worst-case scenario we still have two Days to lynch right with the Tree Stump in play if we remove a killing element.

4) It is possible, though not particularly probable, that ckd is not scum. This is further clarified in 8) below.

5) DrippingGoofball is the better lynch Today, part 2. I Am Innocent's plan to control the SK by not lynching her immediately is flawed because there is no reason for her to follow orders - it's still the difference between getting lynched now and getting lynched later, and offering to lynch her later is just begging to get screwed over for our kindness. In particular, the SK has a vested interest in wanting to keep the Tree Stump in the game, as no matter who has it in 3P LyLo she wins.

6) My reads up to this point. Assuming that LMP stopped the IAI kill (which isn't particularly implausible) and assuming Goofball is an SK, the reads at this time are are Goofball > ckd > q21 > Coug > pops > all others.

7) Coug is lurking, and...

8) Coug is not only active lurking when called out for normal lurking, but check out this scumslip. I can vouch that ckd and q21 have been ITT as much as in other threads, which... doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot since we can't honestly vouch for why.

This post brought to you by the slightly more sane one of the two of the squirrels on butter.

---

Cut by IAI: Somewhat profound. What do you think of 5) above? It's more in Goofball's best interest to keep the Tree Stump in play and find some way to wiggle out of the consequences.

Also, what do you think of Coug's A-lurking and scumslip?

[Saint]

Hey Coug, would you like to speak to the squirrel who types in blue, or are you content with voting for no particularly evident reason (again)?

[Saint]

I'll answer your question when you tell me how you got that I have a power role

RIGHT NOW.

You're rolefishing.

Unless I'm mistaken, you DID just answer my question.

This probably isn't the answer you (if Town) want to hear, but I can't definitely answer for Furc. To be quite honest I superskim all of his posts and I recommend others do the same. Arguing with him tends to be fruitless (he's even arguing with

me

ITT).

Saint has no way of knowing you have a power role right now. My guess is Furcolow misread your description of Void Collector.

----

More to the point, there's no way Saint is most likely to be scum right now. Not that you've commented on the person who IS most likely to be scum (Goofball) even after a prod. I don't think you're in a position to use bolded threats, not after that slip.

[Saint]

I read it a couple of times, I did not see it as a scumslip. Not thrilled with the lurking, but then again, up until he let you rile him up, he seemed like me that today's actions were pretty obvious, which was lynch CKD.

I'm quite positive there's a world of difference between how you wanted ckd dead and how Coug wanted ckd dead.

As for 5 above, I respectfully disagree. DGB has a gun to his head, and if he does not follow orders, he dies. I personally think he will follow orders, call me naive. If he doesn't, he shows he is not Eruci and he is autolynched D5. But the fact he has killed 3 scummy or questionable scummy players (in most player's eyes anyway), earns him one more day in my book, especially if it can 1) get rid of the TreeStump if he goes along with the group and 2) confirm his scumminess if he does not go along with the group.

CKD's death could confirm 3 players, if he is telling the truth about having a role today (which makes me wonder, who in the world sent him an ability last night????)

I'll call you naive less for thinking that Goofball will follow orders and more for thinking that Goofball has not already shown that she is not Eruci.

The last sentence is OMGROLEFISHING

Any scum should claim an ability if they think they're going to get lynched. It worked for tmh, it was Goofball's first line of defense, etc. If the ability was worth saving I think someone would have spoken up by now.

If ckd actually DOES have an ability, it's worth mentioning that passing abilities to probscum can be viewed as (paradoxically?) a good thing if that scum dies later.

My return question to you, because it banks on q21 being scum which means you wouldn't be scum:

Don't you find it odd that so many people are wanting DGB out now despite the fact they think CKD is scum? It is almost like they want to guarantee 1) that q21 survives the night & 2) the Tree Stump survives the night.

That above is why I will refuse to vote DGB today.

Well, let's look at the "so many people".

Bunnylover, I don't really have a lot to say about because he hasn't posted much.
q21 kind of quasi-fits the bill, saying that Saint and ckd are his top two but trying to retcon Goofball into his suspicions.
curiouskarmadog has no comment.
That leaves me and pops, unless I left someone out. That's not really "so many people".

At risk of defending scum (again) I'll mention that I think me and pops are more or less on the same page (for a change). The Tree Stump surviving the Night is an unfortunate side effect of lynching the last person with a kill ability, but I've already pointed out that we still get two Days with the reduced number of kills even if Town winds up getting it passed to them. With that in mind, it's still quite possible for the Tree Stump to be Voided anyway, and stay out of the game if the Void Collector stays in Town hands. In other words, it's not the end of the world. I've also pointed out that Goofball would be better off either failing to Purge or Purging an alternative target (see what she tried to do with pops earlier?) in an attempt to keep the Stump in play.

q21 surviving the Night says nothing about whether we lynch him Tomorrow. With that said, I understand that the chances of that are not as high as one might anticipate given the likelihood of you dying overNight and Towns' general eagerness to deviate from plans and make stupid decisions (i.e. lynching Saint) once the planners are dead. So that is a potential downside. Once me and you die this Town is going to be made of weak Townies and scum; I can understand the desire to hit as many scum as possible before that happens.

On the other hand, lynching Goofball ensures that we have one fewer kill per Night and relieves us of the possibility of wondering when Goofball will ultimately toss Town away instead of vice versa.

Counterquestion to you. Suppose Goofball DOES Purge q21 N4. What will you do with Goofball then? Remember, Goofy has to die sometime.

Another question. Is there anything else you want out of this Day, or are you 100% ready for Goofball to hammer ckd?

[Saint]

Responding to Saint/vi

First on the possibility of me dying tonight, with two power roles out there that protect from shotgunning, I will take my chances. And one of those protects from purging, but still I did say I think the tracker should be used on DGB just in case.

With that said, if I did die, my alignment would show Eruci, and with that knowledge, this statement becomes much more meaningful. I defer to Implosion as someone players should listen to. He is someone I think I can trust (and if CKD flips scum I know I can trust), and he has a good head on those shoulders and I also trust his reads for the most part this game.

Your counter question is a great one, but one I am going to refuse until tomorrow. Once again, if I survive, I will promise to answer why early D5. If I don't, well then my flip will show you at least why my intentions were legit on not answering that question D4.

As for the hammer, I have been ready. I think everyone has a good idea of what to do tonight. Unfortunately, I still think we need 3 more votes (assuming the Double Voter is not in effect) now that SC has moved his vote.

It sounds like you have everything in order, then.

Okay. I'll swap over... somewhat reluctantly given Goofball's most recent post proving that you don't actually need facts on your side to say something.

Unvote: DrippingGoofball
Vote: curiouskarmadog

(L-2)

[Saint]

Come on. You knew that was wrong before and after you pressed submit.

But that fraction of a second when I clicked the button...!

I think in that post IAI gave me enough guarantees (and I was asking for a lot) that it's not a CLEARLY terrible move to relent on Goofball. Granted, if ckd flips Town I will be somewhat displeased, but it's a worthwhile chance to take.

[Saint]

ITT confirmed scums get to behave like confirmed innocents. It is the crazy.

if by "the crazy" you mean "the completely expected"

I expected more than just pops to say something about the pivotal vote switch. Or do some people just not care who we lynch

[Saint]

SC, nice OMGUS for my suspicions
Also, thanks for lying about having a power role

[Saint]

CKD was seen posting elsewhere.

This is true.

All we have to do is ask who sent him a power, and we have his claim.

As mentioned previously, if ckd has a power and/or if the power was worth saving, someone would have spoken up a long time ago.
A claim is unnecessary. (You're welcome to ask for it, but it'll only drag this out further.)

Can we get an official statement from DGB regarding the nuances of her role? It's quite obvious it is not cycling, so I want to hear how she explains it out of her own mouth.

You'll be waiting a while, because that explanation would basically confirm what everyone except nhammen already suspects.

[Saint]

Wait wait wait wait wait.

Unvote: curiouskarmadog

for a moment.

[Saint]

And... unwait unwait unwait unwait unwait.

Vote: curiouskarmadog

(L-1)

[Saint]

Could you explain to me how you would use tracking info on DGB to ascertain her alignment? If q21 is purged, we've "tracked" her without using any power roles at all. If someone else is purged, we've tracked her to that. If she's roleblocked, correct me if I'm wrong, the tracker isn't going to report any targetting at all.

At which time we can question the Roleblocker... who conveniently enough will be revealed Tomorrow and will safely have passed the ability on.~

Please oh please mod come quickly

I'm sure there's a good reason for this.

[Saint]

Could you explain to me how you would use tracking info on DGB to ascertain her alignment? If q21 is purged, we've "tracked" her without using any power roles at all. If someone else is purged, we've tracked her to that. If she's roleblocked, correct me if I'm wrong, the tracker isn't going to report any targetting at all.

At which time we can question the Roleblocker... who conveniently enough will be revealed Tomorrow and will safely have passed the ability on.~

Not that this necessarily incriminates the Roleblocker given the possibility of Goofball simply not killing.

[Saint]

Yo, yo, dog, that's some curious karma, yo--okay, that's enough Randy Jackson impersonation.

ask implosion, or did you miss that post that I called his ass out?

You mean this?

need to catch up...will try to get to it on sunday...

I did get an ability last night...I did not have anything to pass.

Can we lynch him? Seriously, he didn't pass the stump to TMH, he failed the plan after I posted it in giant can't-miss letters... I honestly think the only reason he's saying he has an ability so that we don't lynch him, whether or not he actually has an ability.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT?...ummmm....you know i have an ability(tells you what I got)....so you need to explain this vote?

This was the cause of my wait wait wait wait wait earlier - I didn't remember when you claimed to have an ability. Then I saw it. Then I noticed that implosion never said anything about your ability, aside from repeating that you said you had one.

So, nothing to see except Goofball being sanctimonious.

[Saint]

How many people are usually scum in a game this size?
Also, we should have a lot of confirmed townies by now correct?

Six, and yes.

I'm not inclined to believe anything DrippingGoofball says anymore as she is my SK suspect. As for LynchMePls, I can see his case on you and I'm currently deciding how to go about this. Saint is my only strong read other than her.

ITT StrangerCoug claims scum. No hunting Yesterday, not even a master of the obvious Today.
Plus I find the idea of passing an ability (Void Collector) to the same person who gave it to him to be suspect.

Roleblocker - Used on q21.

I bet I know where the "shotgunned" kill went.

tbh the failed kill on implosion broke the game.

...what?
(Cut by LMP saying the same thing)

---

Saint did not have a role D4.
Saint passed to LynchMePls N3.

With pops clear via Neighborizer I see no reason to vote anyone other than Coug or Goofball Today. Since they're both one-person killing elements the order doesn't matter, although Goofball is obviously a more sure shot than Coug.

There's really nothing to gain via massclaim except who was passed to N4.
Since there should be no more connections to be had between living scum, I don't see a positive.

[Saint]

I just caught frostbite from Coug's cold shoulder.

[Saint]

How many people are usually scum in a game this size?
Also, we should have a lot of confirmed townies by now correct?

Six, and yes.

Six + SK or Six Including SK?

Including. (6/24 = 1/4) There should be one Daevori left...
Plus with the influx of Town reads there's really not much room for anyone other than Coug to be Daevori; the distant next one down on my scumlist is Bunnylover.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to prepare like I'm wrong on this (like almost everything else) though.

Cut by Coug being so nice as to say something when someone presses him twice.~

[Saint]

If we vote out DGB and he dies,

I think we track and roleblock the two players above.

What if we vote out Goofball and she doesn't die?

Comic relief aside, just tell me what you want me to do.

[Saint]

Also, should we ever get to a game state where there are only CONFIRMED players left, WE LYNCH POPS FIRST.

I'm

jealous

confused. Why pops first?

We lynch DGB. If he dies, we roleblock BunnyLover (who has claimed 0 abilities today) and Track StrangerCoug

There is a potential flaw in this. However, that doesn't make this a bad plan.

See, this is why I wanted to talk about it.

I'm pretty sure I already said the full massclaim idea wasn't a good one...

Also, if we're not going with a massclaim, has everyone satisfied our standard claiming? IE shouldn't we be full claiming our N3 and declaring if we had/didn't an ability last night? What exactly are we supposed to claim?

All actions and states should be claimed EXCEPT who was passed to N4. This should include Night action results from N4.

[Saint]

N4 I had the Monitor ability. I monitored q21, and he had an ability.

Score one for me being right about irrelevant things!

I may as well go ahead and share my objection to IAI's plan. Roleblocking Bunnylover and Tracking Coug does not, say, prevent Coug from No Killing to evade the Track (or for that matter anyone else No Killing to frame Bunnylover).

That doesn't make it a bad plan, because
1) assuming one Daevori left, a successful kill confirms whoever is Blocked
2) therefore assuming the Roleblocker ability never leaves play, scum should not be able to kill more people than we can confirm, and with our large base of confirmeds at this stage we should never run out of guaranTownies
3, :speculation:) based on Monitor and how the scumkill ability works it's quite possible that a lone scum CANNOT No Kill to begin with (without passing the ability to the Void and therefore losing their NK, which would just prolong the inevitable)

Based on this it's entirely possible that after lynching Goofball it will become impossible for Daevori to win.

If there is more than one Daevori left then we're pretty certain to find one in the next two Days anyway.

[Saint]

ITT DGB says "the fact that I stay alive is more important than the town becoming composed of only Eruci".

I am Eruci. I forget who said that they somehow knew that I was.

It was you.

I disagree with WrathChild's bias against LMP simply because there's a decent chance that LMP stopped the N3 kill.
StrangerCoug is a much better lynch.

[Saint]

I'm willing to demonstrate that the Tree Stump, which is in my possession, has no effect on me as evidenced by a vote - shall I vote you, StrangerCoug?

Apparently, you can't read either. The tree stump is gone.

rofl and a half

How long before we lynch Coug again?

[Saint]

To whom

Who is passed the Roleblocker N5?

[Saint]

I think that's a good answer.

I don't think we need to worry tremendously about scum pairings at this point. The Daevori don't have enough places to hide as it is.

However, I think any nonessential abilities (as in "not Reuser, Hibernate, Roleblock, or Monitor") should be passed between nonconfirmed players to speed the process up.

Also and off-topic, I'm going to be genuinely disappointed if Goofball is Town after that "Scummies" defense.
It would set a bad precedent of people TRYING to win player-side Scummies...

[Saint]

But if DGB flips SK, we likely have 1, possibly 2, daevori left. So the need to eliminate scum pairings is probably not as important as keeping the abilities in the game.

I won't flip SK dammit and you need me to kill Daevori, and you don't want the Tree Stump and the Disconnect to be re-released into the cycle.

...so... why would you allow for that possibility in the first place...?

[Saint]

Also, what's with the appeal to fear in 2732? If you have role information about the abilities you've shelved coming back into play when you die, then out with it.

I do. I didn't say it? I thought I did. I certainly intended to. I'm too lazy to re-read my claim post, but I thought I did. The shelved abilities return to play.

See my previous post.

DrippingGoofball's Scummy will be for "Best Use of Blackmail to Evade Lynch".

[Saint]

Have you done anything besides vote analysis this game? Besides push a case on me that's been proven false.

Not during the Day, unless you count the blackmail.

Whenever you're ready to present another plan or start voting, call me; otherwise, this is getting tiring (>")>

[Saint]

Make your calculations properly, if perchance StrangerCoug lands the Tree Stump, he can't be lynched tomorrow, so he'll get two NKs instead of one.

If he lands Disconnect, you can kiss the Roleblock goodbye, too.

And if perchance StrangerCoug lands any of those I would have to question which Townie was out-and-out stupid enough to give them to him... or which SK would be vengeful enough to do the same.

IAI - I don't have anything else to say. Calling Goofball out for being obvious scum isn't even therapeutic any more. Calling Coug out for being obvious scum isn't therapeutic any more either. No new plans to critique have been presented. When you're ready to start lynching, don't hesitate.

[Saint]

Pops/Saint/Implosion, do any of you three have it? Once I get an answer to this, I will vote DGB.

Nein.
Can we lynch yet?

I'd rather the tracker [...] track one of the nonBunnylover confirmed towns,

I hope you mean UNconfirmeds.
That must be the brain atrophy from WoW kicking in

Truthfully the previous two posts would make me twitch if you weren't confTown.

[Saint]

I am disappointed that I didn't save the "I like where this thread is going" image I want to use here.

Vote: DrippingGoofball

(L-3 if I'm not mistaken)

[Saint]

2 more?

[Saint]

I sort of agree with the above. The thing is, if DGB

is

town, how long are we going to be able to leave her around? I mean, in LYLO, would you not hammer her? I know I would.

Town can be detrimental to town, look at my play in Succession mafia. Even if DGB is town, it is best to get her out of the way now. The thing is, I doubt she's town. Leaning towards SK like everyone else, and even if she is simply scum, we can still pat Vi on the back for knowing DGB's scum-meta.

[Saint]

n4 claims or d5 or whatever

[Saint]

1-2 scum left, correct?
So, basically, we can vote with no problems

vote: strangercoug

wasn't on the wagon, isn't confirmed like implosion afaik, and a good lynch afaic.

What do you guys see the "bleeding to death" vs being shotgunned as mattering? Different kill flavor is definitely interesting.

[Saint]

Saint had an ability N5.

Much as I would like to say Coug is the best lynch Today, WrathChild not being able to follow basic instructions looks really terrible. Plus the LMP block is inconsistent with this and this.

The different kill flavor could be a big problem. However, we can probably still rule out an undiscovered scumteam. There should still be only one scum left. Two is unlikely. It's possible for the remaining scum to be a special kind of Daevori. It's also possible for there to be a connection between Goofball and WrathChild, since WC was so adamantly against her lynch (appeal to emotion is tech). Either way, as long as we lynch scum it should come out in the wash.

The pops kill is curious and implicates LMP... who was Roleblocked last Night. So that's nice.

IAI - We have four confirmed non-Daevori now that LMP is added. The remaining four players are... WrathChild, Bunnylover, StrangerCoug, nhammen. As of right now only two of them are worth lynching.

[Saint]

If you're trying to impress people with your post count, it's not working.

[Saint]

I'm not sure if I'm going to accept a policy lynch.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to deter one.

[Saint]

I figured Roleblocking any of the non-confirmed town would provide us with equal benefit,

I know I skim threads like crazy and I still saw why you were told to Block Bunny in particular.

Also, WC, LMP is incredibly protown lol... not sure why you aren't seeing that.

I can't say I agree, but etc.

LMP is only NOT confirmed if WrathChild is scum of some kind, which I wouldn't bank on.

Poisoner is likely not in the question.

Non-confirmed VTs claiming would be a decent idea because if the scum want to kill nonconfirmeds would be a wonderful thing.

This is as much policy as TMH and CKD were. Their night actions implicated them as much as the night actions implicate Wrath.

This is correct.

I think our next two lynches at this point are more or less set, namely Coug and WrathChild (in that order). I'm concerned with the change in kill flavor (or extra kill flavor?) that we're dealing with an as-yet-unknown element, which is part of why I entertained the possibility of someone aligned with the Asxtori earlier. It doesn't make sense for the Daevori to have individual kill flavors.

[Saint]

@Saint/LynchMePls/WC, please state whether you sent your ability to Pops or not.

DO NOT SAY WHO YOU SENT IT TO IF IT WAS NOT POPS!

Nein.

I don't really see a problem with asking scummy people to claim at this point.
Fortunately, we have pretty much established who our two scumpicks are, so that bit of bureaucracy is out.

[Saint]

I had considered flipping based upon passes that have been made, but I realized with it likely to be only 1 scum left, it is sort of irrelevant.

[Saint]

I like implosion's plan
I want to lynch SC

vote: strangercoug