Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[LimMePls]

I PM'ed the mod earlier, but just so the thread knows, I'm V/LA for the next week for holiday activities. I will be checking the thread, but not frequently.

[LimMePls]

I haven't forgotten about this game, but the wifi at my inlaws that I used to bum from a surrounding neighbor is no longer available. I do not have the time to catchup on 12 pages.

@Mod: Gonna need V/LA until next monday. If you feel you need to replace me, I understand. When I signed up for this game I didn't realize it would be starting so close to the holiday.

[LimMePls]

Wrath's latest posting should earn a bullet.

I'm gonna /barn RedCoyote and

Vote: Helghast

Not a fan of tmh's play either.

[LimMePls]

I agree with what you are saying but I don’t ascribe to letting diddin divest himself of responsibility. As Town I think the proper course of action is to let him make the shot himself and thus bear the responsibility for it.

QFT. I think the voting on the vig is bad.

[LimMePls]

Lynchme and Pops also throw pretty weak bandwagon votes on Helghast.

It's not a weak bandwagon vote, it is a BLATANT bandwagon vote. Note here:

I'm gonna /barn RedCoyote and

Vote: Helghast

It doesn't get more blatant bandwagonny than that.

Expand?

Ok. All of the following makes me think you are scum and should get vigged:

PS
If people think my death will give the town valuable information due to the circumstances, go ahead and shoot me. If you do, you better lynch scum today or I'll be super bummed.

This is quite possibly the lamest attempt at "too townie to be scum" I've ever seen.

So you're supporting the death of a player you don't think is scum?

Also, Major FoS on Didden for having tunnel vision on killing me.

@LAteralus: What IS the case against me?

Laughably terrible posting.

Post Count:
-LynchMePls: 2
-RedCoyote: 12
-MagnaOfIllusion: 11
-themanhimself: 21
-Lateralus22* (Thelonging): 24
-WrathChild: 23
-curiouskarmadog: 28
-Helghast: 11
-Powerrox93: 13
-quadz08: 19
-chkflip: 17
-Nero Cain: 11
-Narsis: 6
-Q21: 3
-diddin: 27
-popsofctown: 54
-SnakePlissken: 1
-I Am Innocent: 15
-StrangerCoug* (UnofficialRuler): 4
-Parama: 35
-Implosion: 16
-EtherealCookie: 14
-Saint/Vi: 27

Ok, had some extra time this morning. There are three players with disturbingly low post counts. I need to double check the V/LA status on these people.

OK, so I used the most awesome feature of this forum "Display posts by user" and looked at LynchmePls, Narsis and Q21.

LynchmePls looks to have no access.
Q21 announced a V/LA from 12/26-1/3 but had a nice wall post.
Narsis announced a V/LA from 12/24-12/28 and has contributed nothing of value.

In fact, he's made some scummy posts:

1st Post: RVS Vote on LynchmePls
2nd Post: Fixes #1
3rd: Agrees with ability passing confirmation strategy
4th: When Quadz votes Parama for a scumclim, Narsis defends the so called scumslip. The only reason I see people doing this is A: when they are scummates or B: Scum trying to stick up for town, so when that person gets lynched they can give you the I-told-you-so.
5th: Defends self when Magna calls him out for trying to break the game as opposed to scumhunt.
6th: Votes EC on a "Gut-Feeling"

So I think I'll:
(See next post because of Quick Reply non-boldability)

Lurker hunting is NOT a good place to start to find SCUM. It is a good place to start to find mislynches.

Expanded enough?

[LimMePls]

No, let me correct you:

#1: Calling someone out for bandwagonning when they explicitly said there vote was bandwagonning, is NOT OK.
#2: No clue where you dreamed this one up.
#3: Hunting lurkers and trying to pawn it off as actual scum hunting is NOT OK.
#4: Looking town is OK.

[LimMePls]

2) Active lurking (where I usually play) led to many scum victories fairly recently, so naturally I felt the need to at least look at those actively lurking.

Please define what you mean by active lurking. Because my play does not fall into that category as I understand it, yet I was one of the players you were drawing attention to. I was not even lurking, I was plainly V/LA, which was noted to both the mod AND in thread.

By your own admission you didn't have time for "serious scum hunting". Do you know what townies do when they don't have time for "serious scum hunting"? Nothing. Do you know what scum do? Act like they are scum hunting to try and blend with town.

Can we lynch and/or shoot this guy please?

[LimMePls]

#1: Forgive me for not knowing the /barn term means the same as blatant bandwagon. Regardless, this does not make blatant bandwagonry any more acceptable.

So by your logic, it would be OK if I said, "I fake-claim Doc so the real Doc and counterclaim me"? If I do something blatantly scummy, saying that it is blatantly scummy does NOT make it any less scummy.

I don't think bandwagonning done for the sake of bandwagonning is scummy when it is expressily admitted to being such. Obviously this doesn't apply to all situations, just bandwagonning.

Please explain why you think a bandwagon vote is a scum tell, so that I can show you why when a player calls out that their vote is a bandwagon vote, it pretty much negates the scumminess of it.[/quote]

[LimMePls]

Scum like to do what is easy. They like to hop onto existing cases, they like to accelerate lynches or cases that are favorable to them. I still don't understand why calling out a bandwagon is scummier than blatantly bandwagoning despite claiming it or not.

Because attacking someone for "weak bandwagonning" when that person is admitting that there vote is a bandwagon vote is another example of you trying to look like you are scum hunting, instead of actually scum hunting. The problem is you are using a buzz word to try and fabricate a scum motivation where there is none.

[LimMePls]

OMFG DIDDIN SHOOT ALREADY! FFS!

[LimMePls]

Diddin announced that he has a dayvig on Dec 23. It's now Jan 6, which is 2 full weeks later and he still hasn't shot. This is starting to get really scummy. Diddin's wanting to get town cred by having everyone vote on his shot, while being able to disown the consequences of the shot is scummy. Drawing out the process for over 2 weeks, leaving us with less time to deal with the aftermath is scummy. We're now at less than a week to deadline.

Unless there are some serious objections, I'm gonna go ahead and shoot Helghast. I'll support a lynch of Wrath today instead as Helghast is screaming vigbait to me quite a bit.

That was a week ago. FREAKING SHOOT ALREADY. The longer he waits on pulling the trigger, the scummier he gets.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Diddin, shoot so we can get on to the lynching scumz.

[LimMePls]

Well...fuck....that went well. /sarcasm

Prior to the lynch I was most suss of WC and Diddin with his stalling, and while I still have a small pinky fos on Diddin, I am looking back over WC posts right now to remind myself of the specifics of why I found him scummy and will list them should i decide to vote because my content level so far has been disgusting.

Saturday I will be fully here though! <3

@Everyone else: Please join me on this wagon. It's awesome. Quadz is also an acceptable wagon.

[LimMePls]

I wanted to wait until as close to deadline as possible.

Why the hell would you do that? *scumdarasplode*

Because shooting before everyone can voice their opinion on a daykill we were going to decide to be done democratically is a great idea!

I also think that Diddin should examined a bit closer because essentially he limited his Vig targets to only myself and Helghast, he refused to kill EC. It seems to be a safe-scum play to limit the vig targets as he did. While he made it appear that we had a choice, it was win-win for Diddin IF he is scum.

My God you are slow.

How many times did we agree I was shooting people with a lot of votes (hint: not EC)? How many times did I say I didn't want someone else to claim and potentially out a stronger power role? It's like I'm talking to someone and whenever I make a point they stick their fingers in their ear and go LALALALALALA YOU'RE WRONG YOU'RE WRONG

The point is that you narrowed the potential Vig candidates down to two very early and greatly influenced the number of people voting for each of those players by doing so. You can't just say "DERP! They had lotso votes", they had lots of votes because you said they were they only two people you would shoot. EC would of had many more votes if you didn't deny the option to shoot him.

QFT.

[LimMePls]

Why does him wanting to understand why helghast was scummy and helghast flipping town make him extremely likely town? I find the flip actually makes him more likely scum, as though he already knew that Helghast was going to flip town, and wanted to get town-cred by opposing the vig (although not nearly effectively/strongly enough to actually stop it).

[LimMePls]

Why does him wanting to understand why helghast was scummy and helghast flipping town make him extremely likely town? I find the flip actually makes him more likely scum, as though he already knew that Helghast was going to flip town, and wanted to get town-cred by opposing the vig (although not nearly effectively/strongly enough to actually stop it).

@tmh: this was directed at you. You've posted since, and you didn't answer.

[LimMePls]

The end of my busyness and inactivity is at an end!

Skimming back over posts previously, I still find early/mid D1 actions of WC to be a bit scummy, but as pointed out by many of you (and I honestly was too busy to notice on my own) diddin's narrowing it down to just those two, (and Helghast flipping town) make me cautious of outright lynching WC because I am more suspicious of diddin than him, and if diddin were scum, then he'd likely have narrowed it down to townies...unless of course (WIFOM!) he knew we'd come to this conclusion and actually chose his scum buddy WC because he hoped he might be able to swayit onto Helg, and if he had to vig WC he'd look grand for having hit a a scum, and ARGH. I hate WIFOM. Gives me headache.

Anyways, enough babbling, I am going to hold off on my vote of WC for now, and while part of me would like to see diddin hanged today, I concede that town or scum, he'd be useful to us for another dayvig (hopefully...)

and after that,

I hate to be the guy that says this, but we've had

three

townie deaths today..... maybe a no lynch wouldn't be such a bad idea?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: themanhimself
No Lynch is only good when a game is at MyLo. And I would be

REEAALLYY

surprised if a large game where at MyLo already with three town deaths.

Only scum would suggest No Lynch in non-MyLo-situations.

Speaking of WIFOM - ffs.

vote: powerrox

I can't believe there are not more votes on this wagon. WTF folks.

[LimMePls]

Says the guy who isn't on his wagon...

+2 scum points

Unvote
Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Diddin, shoot so we can get on to the lynching scumz.

+over 9000! scum points for lying.

[LimMePls]

Says the guy who isn't on his wagon...

+2 scum points

Unvote
Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Diddin, shoot so we can get on to the lynching scumz.

+over 9000! scum points for lying.

Mah bad!!! I thought you were talkining about Powerrox while I agree that Darla is scummy there's like 4 days till the dl and sitting your vote on Darla doesn't look very pro-town.

Just so I have this straight, you accuse me of something and call me scummy for it, I point out that you are incorrect, so you just dream up another reason to call me scum? My vote can be wherever the hell I want it. I assure you there won't be a no lynch due to my vote.

[LimMePls]

Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Everyone should do this. The slot has pretty much 0 scum hunting, all go with the flow, and DBE made some particularly terrible posts that I would be happy to point out and/or discuss if anyone didn't see them.

Please ISO Narsis/Darla. Then vote for her.

[LimMePls]

something besides ISO

I LOL'd.

[LimMePls]

Here are the following posts that come from scum-Darla, all for the obvious reasons:

Arg. Okay I had a wordpad open full of all my notes as I read through, but the fucking computer updated itself and restarted while I was making me some nachos. SO. I am just going to try and vaguely reconstruct my basic impression of things that stand out as notable, as well as my take on the current day-vig candidates for didden, (which by the way, I support the majority ruling/vote/decision what have you on too.)

ANYWAYS. Again, with the delays, apologies and a post is being typed up now with my actual content.

Okay, I am having a really hard time getting my head around previous posts, this is my first game in like, a year, so I apologize for being rusty, so instead of trying to voice opinions on what has happened thus far, I am just going to throw myself into the fray and ask that if anyone has any specific questions they'd like my take on to please ask them, and as for the vig vote, I am torn between many but I agree that so far Helghast seems to be the most reasonable candidate, though I am finding WC to be highly irrational and seems to be trying to change his take on everything to get any and all FoSes off him.

So, to sum up:

Vig Vote: Helghast

I cannot help that I am overwhelmed by my own inadequacies and 22 pages of long ass posts. It's been a longgggg time since I've played, just getting my feet wet again. I hardly think that's enough to constitute a lynch. As for no lynch vote I am still reviewing and it seems pretty detrimental to the town to vote blindly or simply bandwagon onto someone.

As for my read on Nero, gimmie a few to go examine his play so far and I will report back with an answer

I am incredibly sorry to replace in and then be busy guys, this weekend should signal the end of my failings though, so please bear with me. As per promised looking back I find Nero to be a bit aggressive and a little suspicious but I am not getting a major scum vibe off him (I forget who asked my read)

and so far I find the most suspicion in Helghast and find it a bit annoying that diddin is stalling so much major FoS there. If he fails to shoot I am voting him as mentioned above for Lynch All Liars policy.

For now,

vote Helghast

he seems the most likely candidate for scum from play, and if diddin isn't lying and manages to get in his vig, we'll at least have that information to base our lynch on. Also, I agree with the attempting to direct the doc = scummy, and is a big no no for town.

Well...fuck....that went well. /sarcasm

Prior to the lynch I was most suss of WC and Diddin with his stalling, and while I still have a small pinky fos on Diddin, I am looking back over WC posts right now to remind myself of the specifics of why I found him scummy and will list them should i decide to vote because my content level so far has been disgusting.

Saturday I will be fully here though! <3

This one in particular. The oh noes, that went bad for us is so obviously coming from scum.

The end of my busyness and inactivity is at an end!

Skimming back over posts previously, I still find early/mid D1 actions of WC to be a bit scummy, but as pointed out by many of you (and I honestly was too busy to notice on my own) diddin's narrowing it down to just those two, (and Helghast flipping town) make me cautious of outright lynching WC because I am more suspicious of diddin than him, and if diddin were scum, then he'd likely have narrowed it down to townies...unless of course (WIFOM!) he knew we'd come to this conclusion and actually chose his scum buddy WC because he hoped he might be able to swayit onto Helg, and if he had to vig WC he'd look grand for having hit a a scum, and ARGH. I hate WIFOM. Gives me headache.

Anyways, enough babbling, I am going to hold off on my vote of WC for now, and while part of me would like to see diddin hanged today, I concede that town or scum, he'd be useful to us for another dayvig (hopefully...)

and after that,

I hate to be the guy that says this, but we've had

three

townie deaths today..... maybe a no lynch wouldn't be such a bad idea?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: themanhimself
No Lynch is only good when a game is at MyLo. And I would be

REEAALLYY

surprised if a large game where at MyLo already with three town deaths.

Only scum would suggest No Lynch in non-MyLo-situations.

Speaking of WIFOM - ffs.

vote: powerrox

Still not 1 single instance of Darla even attempting to hunt scum. More go with the flow, ended with a weak ass hop onto the mislynch-of-the-day(TM) wagon, despite the earlier quote "As for no lynch vote I am still reviewing and it seems pretty detrimental to the town to vote blindly or simply bandwagon onto someone."

Wow. I am so confused LOL. I need to brush up on game mechanics better now that I have been away so long. The secret vote/whatever the hell that is, that's not actually confirmed yet, right? I get the impression MOD isn't going to be answering us there, and

Parama how do you know Lat is confirmed town exactly?

Rereading the last three pages as I feel a bit whirlwinded.

Also don't quite know what to think about pops replacing out when he was that close to a lynch...seems a bit fishy to me.

Add to that Narsis' complete lack of participation, and this slot is doing absolutely everything it can to provide no substantive help to town, while weak-ass bandwagonning yesterday's mislynch. This slot is scum. Vote accordingly.

@Darla: List 3 players who are scum and why.

[LimMePls]

^this is a fine lynch as well.

Taking the dayvig and then doing the whole "democratically" thing again is so terrible. In fact, taking the dayvig at all is something I'd expect from a scummer with your ability.

tmh can hang too.

[LimMePls]

Because now we can't use who diddin sent it to as a connection if diddin is in fact scum. Also, if diddin was scum, we'd know it was going to town. Lastly, giving it to yourself is suspect. Could you only steal the power to yourself, or could you redirect it to anyone? If you could send it to anyone, why did you send it to yourself, PARTICULARLY if you are of the belief that using it democratically is the proper way to use the vig.

Taking the vig and then using that terrible "we'll do it democratically" shit is terrible. Did you see how it ended yesterday? Dayvig's should take the best shot they can, and then accept the consequences of their action. Voting on the dayvig is TERRIBLE.

[LimMePls]

@quadz: One of two possibilities exist. The person with the dayvig ability is town, or the person with the dayvig ability is scum.

IF TOWN: Then letting them take the shot leaves the dayvig target solely in the hands of a townie. This is a good thing.
IF SCUM: Then letting them take the shot leaves them solely responsible for the choice, and allows the town to draw conclusions about the player based on the choice made to help discern the dayvig's alignment. This is a good thing.

By voting on it, we get the worst of both worlds. The shot is now controlled at least partially by scum input, AND we can't discern the alignment of the dayvig based on the decision, because they can disown the decision as not there own. The only possible upside is that you force interactions from everyone by requiring a vig-vote, BUT WE ALREADY GET THIS FROM REGULAR VOTES!

@LMP: Your second to last quote of DBE seems like scum hunting to me. He calls out a possible WC and Diddin scum team, but ruins it by setting up the WIFOM situation.

@Bunnylover: And if Darla actually did anything about it, such as questioning those players, or voting them, or anything like that, then I might agree with you. But what did Darla do at the end of that post? BANDWAGON VOTE THE MISLYNCH OF THE DAY FOR TERRIBLE REASONS WITHOUT PURSUING THE DIDDIN/WC THING AT ALL. Also everything she said about diddin/WC had already been said ad nauseam by multiple other players. It was completely unoriginal, and in my mind, not at all scum hunting. They were statements designed to blend in with some popular town sentiment at the time.

[LimMePls]

If we're doing the claim thing by MoI (who we now know as town) then I was a Firewall (Doctor) and have cycled my ability on to the person I thought was most towny.

As for LMP's case against me I know my play yesterday was awful and I have plenty of excuses and reasoning for it - but I am not gonna blather on about it, rather I'll try to be more scumhunty instead.

**SNIP**

And while LMP is on my case, I actually find him to be quite town, and admit my play yesterday was pretty sucky, but I was overwhelmed and trying to lay low with my doc abilities - clearly I did a shit all job of that too LOL

Note both Darla's admission that her play was terrible and attempt to buddy me.

[LimMePls]

But if we do it democratically, then it's essentially 2 lynches per day. This means that we get twice the info that we'd get from a lynch. Yes, it absolves a single person from responsibility, but we gain more information about the entire town.

But we're already getting this information from regular votes. Diminishing returns would tell you that it's much less valuable than the tool we'd have in watching a single player make the decision. It's like being told we can have cake AND pie, but just wanting extra cake instead! That would be... FOOLISH!

That being said, I think this argument is headed into distraction land, so I'd like to take this up again in endgame to discuss this further.

[LimMePls]

The reason I asked about the Mafia Night vs. Day Chat is that LMP seems to have significantly picked up his effort today. I'm thankfull for the increase in effort, but suspicious it may have been coached overnight.

I agree DBE needs to pick it up.

I LOL'd. I don't need coaching.

Multiple people with the "DBE needs to pick it up" not voting anyone.

FOS

all of them.

[LimMePls]

TMH is scum. Remind me again how directing a vig power to yourself is protown? Also, he passed me his ability. It's pretty much a "busdriver" ability that I can only imagine mafia would have.

Vote: themanhimself

Also posting townreads and the like is NOT a scumtell like you seem to think. You obviously haven't realized that Parama does stuff like this regardless of alignment.

If you're right, I'm thinking you probably are, you're still doing it wrong. TMH is for tomorrow, after he's been forced to pass the dayvig to another player.

[LimMePls]

@DARLA

@Darla: List 3 players who are scum and why.

Don't dodge this again.

[LimMePls]

Seems like a good idea to me. I had the power to change the cycle of night choices for N1. For example, I could tell the mod to send diddin's power to someone else regardless of who diddin tried to send it to. I sent the day-vig ability to myself and the person who got my redirect power knows who they are probably figured out why I sent it to them. I'm all for using my power democratically

Learn to fucking read Parama.

TMH was arguably the second most popular lynch candidate yesterday. Why would he, as town, pass a powerful ability to himself if he knew he could be lynched today and lose the power? There's absolutely no town motive to. At all.

I'm going to love being confirmed town tomorrow.

How would this make you confirmed town tomorrow? If he used an ability to steal it from you, it doesn't mean you passed it to him.

[LimMePls]

@LMP: TMH passed me his redirector ability. Scum cannot pass abilities between their team. Ergo, when TMH flips scum, I am confirmed town.

Roger. I was thinking the vig ability. This is correct.

[LimMePls]

^^
??

[LimMePls]

I was in possession of no abilities to pass last night.

[LimMePls]

^^Scum.

Bunny is just an idiot. SI or VI to be determined, but I don't see this as a scumslip. Those trying to blow it out of proportion are scummy.

[LimMePls]

Claims

Passed an ability

themanhimself
Bunnylover
DarlaBlueEyes
quadz08
Implosion
popsofctown
Saint
nhammen
LynchMePls
curiouskarmadog

Ability was stolen

diddin

Did not pass an ability

WrathChild
Parama
I Am Innocent
StrangerCoug

Unclaimed

RedCoyote
Lateralus22
Nero Cain
q21

This is incorrect. I did

NOT

pass an ability last night.

[LimMePls]

What relevance does DarlaBlueEyes have in this? Her appeal to emotion is worrisome to me, but if I were doctor that night protecting MagnaofIllusion wouldn't have come to me either. She's not on the top of my town list, but she's on there.

Really? Despite my observations? Care to comment on why my observations on DBE don't change your view?

[LimMePls]

@DARLA

@Darla: List 3 players who are scum and why.

Don't dodge this again.

@DARLA: LIST 3 PLAYERS WHO ARE SCUM AND WHY.

Maybe 3rd time will be a charm?

[LimMePls]

Meh. I am to the point of agreeing with you that someone dying is the only way for town to advance. Ideally it would be nice to not have to self-sacrifice or let the town lose another townie for that to happen, but my death will clearly implicate a few people I suppose. That would be pro-town in and of itself. I can go down a hero! (lawl.)

Who exactly would your death implicate and why?

Also, ignore this if you've since done it, since I haven't fully read up, but:

@DARLA: NAME THREE PEOPLE WHO ARE SCUM AND WHY!

You still fail to comply with this, but you act puzzled why we don't think you are town. Also, if you are town, your opinions here could be VITALLY important. The only reluctance I could understand from you on this matter is if you are scum and you don't want to buss buddies or make contrived arguments. Dragging your feet on this has pretty much made it useless, but I still want an answer.

[LimMePls]

Frick, I'm OCDing myself into this game.

Someone tell me what's wrong with this picture.
*Parama is being called Extremely Town by everyone. (okay, what's wrong other than that)
*DBE claims to have passed the Doctor to Parama.
*Parama wants to die Today, specifically by the Virus.

Also, the Virus PM is confusingly worded and I do not think there is a set upper limit on posts before it explodes regardless of how long someone has held it.
It should only explode after the number of posts listed IF it's not handed off.
I definitely believe that the number of posts between message retrieval and potato handoff are counted off of the total timer - when we got it the timer was at 75.
And it CAN be passed between scumpartners. For some reason I'm not sure if that was mentioned at all during the hoopla D1.

What's wrong is that this isn't what happened.

Darla claims to have PROTECTED Parama last night, not passed him the Doc.

[LimMePls]

I have to agree with WC here. I think that Darla is trying to paint Parama guilty by association because she knows her lynch is inevitable. The refusal to answer my very simple request of 3 scummy players + reasons while engaging in all this talk about who she targeted for protection is scummy as hell. Call it the cherry on the top of the Darla-is-scum sundae.

[LimMePls]

Vote: Wrath Child

I've made my position here pretty clear. The "if diddin flips town does not mean tmh is scum" bit only seals the deal for me.

[LimMePls]

Oh wait, tmh killed Parama.

I'm also willing to lynch tmh. At this point, I don't think the town can afford the vig power passing around anymore anyways.

[LimMePls]

I skipped ahead just for you, and I'm willing to buy some temporary leave due to other games, but from December 22 all the way to January 6 (two weeks)? And you were literally incapable of posting anything convincing until then?

There was a couple of little holidays that fell in here, you might have heard of them. They're called Christmas and New Years. Some of us weren't available for mafia during that time.

For instance, you point out that "Only shows up around Page 20", as though there is a scummy reason for this, when the simple truth is that I was V/LA over that time, and had announced it clearly to the mod and in the thread.

[LimMePls]

^^Yes please.

[LimMePls]

Lynchmepls... pushed really hard for the DBE bomb.

QFT. Her play was scummy as hell. What exactly was scummy about me pushing for her death?

[LimMePls]

What is multiball?

[LimMePls]

Actually,

diddin

can answer that same question.

And because I'm in a posting mood.

Taking the vig and then using that terrible "we'll do it democratically" shit is terrible. Did you see how it ended yesterday? Dayvig's should take the best shot they can, and then accept the consequences of their action. Voting on the dayvig is TERRIBLE.

Please tell me how that vig shot ended D1, because it looked quite a bit like it was used as a second lynch - exactly as diddin advertised.

Saying that majority-rule dayvigging is a bad idea is a matter of opinion, but making it sound like a

scummy

thing to suggest is out of place.

It ended in a misvig where we gained almost 0 information we couldn't have gained from regular voting, not to mention a large amount of time spent debating the actual use of the vigging. diddin just shooting someone would have both a) gotten the flip earlier giving us more time to discuss it's ramifications and b) given us a LOT of information about diddin (assuming he would explain his shot).

In a word, it ended terribly.

Cut.[/i][/color]

1) In this instance I posted a defence, true, but to label all my posting as either defending myself or trying to preserve the status quo is a blatant misrepresentation. Point in case: Back at the beginning of January when very few people had so much as mentioned Powerrox and certainly no one had voted him in any seriousness I made a case for his lynch and placed the first vote on what became the lynch of the day. If that is posting to maintain the status quo then you have a very warped definition of status quo.

Could you provide another example? Leading a lynch on a village idiot isn't exactly a claim to fame.

thing is, how can you - if you are actually town - honestly condemn someone for doing something you are also guilty of.

Not everyone plays perfect games. Also, motivation.

You have a proof positive example

of a townie (yourself)

committing exactly the same act which makes that act, at the very least, a nulltell.

Why thank you~

His sudden willingness to vote AntB back during day 1 coming out of nowhere was scummy.

Being willing to vote someone without saying why

with no threat of a lynch

is a scummy move now? Without looking back through the QT I'm not sure if I was the one who gave him the idea that AntB was scummy, but I can certainly vouch for encouraging him here.

experienced Vi is calling TMH town despite a preponderance of scumminess

And I was even kind enough to say why. Oh, you're not going to bother with that, are you?

In the absence of a flip on either this point is the weakest, but given that I strongly read TMH as scum - as in, I'd be personally banging in the nails at his crucifixion if I didn't think we owed it to ourselves to at least try and keep the dayvig power and attempt to take both him and the stump out tomorrow - I think it's at least a little valid. Hint: TMH is the reason I most think you'll lose that little bet.

Vote Saint

Someone, anyone. Spot the contradiction in motives in this quote.

Cut again.

nhammen

- Consider that if diddin is scum, you just gave him license to throw the dayvig to a partner instead. If diddin is Town, you just gave him license to give it to someone who might not be Town.

Could you please put new names onto quotes if you are going to quote me, and then quote other people? Some may think these are all quotes from me.

[LimMePls]

Taking the vig and then using that terrible "we'll do it democratically" shit is terrible. Did you see how it ended yesterday? Dayvig's should take the best shot they can, and then accept the consequences of their action. Voting on the dayvig is TERRIBLE.

Please tell me how that vig shot ended D1, because it looked quite a bit like it was used as a second lynch - exactly as diddin advertised.

Saying that majority-rule dayvigging is a bad idea is a matter of opinion, but making it sound like a

scummy

thing to suggest is out of place.

It ended in a misvig where we gained almost 0 information we couldn't have gained from regular voting, not to mention a large amount of time spent debating the actual use of the vigging. diddin just shooting someone would have both a) gotten the flip earlier giving us more time to discuss it's ramifications and b) given us a LOT of information about diddin (assuming he would explain his shot).

In a word, it ended terribly.

All fair enough, but was it

scummy

that TMH (or diddin before him) suggested a Democratic Day Dos Dayvig?
For that matter, since TMH shot the way you wanted him to, what do you get from that?

I have a few mixed emotions on this. For one, I like that he took the shot himself. Of course I was screaming my head off about how taking the shot by himself was townie, so now there is a giant wall of wifom around that. On the other hand, he seems to want to try and weasel out of the results by suggesting that it was still semi-democratic. See this quote:

I count somewhere around five people who wanted parama dead plus me, the game was stalling and he was being unhelpful so I took it into my own hands

So which is it, did you take matters in your own hands, or did you do it because there were alot of other people who wanted him dead?

[LimMePls]

1)yes
2)yes

[LimMePls]

I like my vote where it is. I have nothing new to say.

[LimMePls]

I like my vote where it is. I have nothing new to say.

You're voting someone who's not going to get lynched and making no effort to change that?

Why is he not getting lynched?

[LimMePls]

I passed no abilities last night.

NC or TMH should swing today. I'm fine with either of those.

Are we getting the virus active again today?

[LimMePls]

Vote: TMH

[LimMePls]

I stopped the missing scum kill. IAI knows how.

I had an ability last night.

[LimMePls]

Yes this is very odd considering LynchMePls's ability he is referencing was one that Pops/DGBall most likely had prior.

You really have no idea what I'm talking about?

[LimMePls]

LMP has

GOT

to be town.

QFT

[LimMePls]

I did NOT purge NC.

[LimMePls]

Ok, I think I now understand the situation. I must have received DGB's random cycled ability. I thought it had been passed to me by IAI.

[LimMePls]

Just so I understand, we believe the Dayvig is out there, but no one is claiming it? Ditto that no one is claiming the purge?

[LimMePls]

DGBall, did you have an ability N2 that would send the virus to a player D3?

LynchMe, did you have an ability N3 that would send the virus to a player D4?

For Pops, did you have to send the virus to a player D2, or was that optional?

For DGBall/LynchMe, if the answer above is yes, did you have to send the virus to a player the next day?

I did not have such an ability.

[LimMePls]

Though his lack of vote today (right out of the gate) looks townish..the q21 attack out of no where, looks quite fucking interesting though…where did that come from? Looks like scum knew the wagon was going to start on me and wanted to get on it early without drawing too much attention.

IAI is town. Period. The fact that you're trying to tar him makes me think you aren't.

[LimMePls]

ummmmmmm....what is "tar" about me saying IAI lack of vote look townish?

Nice try to twist it, but THIS is the problem part:

the q21 attack out of no where, looks quite fucking interesting though…

Its doubly bad that you just use millimouth wording like "interesting", rather than coming out and saying what you mean.

[LimMePls]

@ Everyone, please state in your next post if you think at this point in the game, whether we should mass claim our roles from D1/N1 & D2/N2? And why you feel that way.

IMO the game is almost suffering from an OVERabundance of information right now. Not sure if a massclaim is a great idea.

[LimMePls]

If I were to vote now, it would be ckd. Are we voting?

[LimMePls]

I am guessing LynchMe, you used that power for the Doctor Ability? Who did you protect N3?

YOU!

[LimMePls]

Watcher, Double-voter, doc and ability redirector.

I was going to use the watcher on you since I was almost certain you were town. However, with as many players as we lost in the game, I figured that losing a near-confirmed town might not be worth it ESPECIALLY because the watcher would also see cycle targetting, and thus there could have been a lot of noise in the watcher results.

[LimMePls]

ninja'ed by the lolcat. LMP's role claims make as little sense as everything else.

I'm not sure I follow why my role claim doesn't make sense. Please explain.

[LimMePls]

I see. So DGB claims the watcher ability was never available to her, but you had it (before DGB) and I had it (after DGB), so Occum's razor says DGB had it too and is lying? I can buy that. I don't know why DGB would lie about this though. Is it because DGB doesn't want to have to explain why she didn't use the Watcher ability? That doesn't make sense if she had to pass the ability on and KNOWS that the town will figure out that the watcher ability was there all along. Not to mention that claiming to use the doc ability would have been a perfectly valid "out" of that whole mess. So I don't understand why DGB would be lying about this in the first place.

[LimMePls]

Hmm, the doctor was killed during D2, correct? If DGB received the abilities PM at the start of D1, then maybe that explains not having that ability? My options were listed when I received the role, which was start of D3. I don't know what would have happened if an ability went to the void during D3, if I would have received a new PM, an update from the mod, or I wouldn't have been able to access that ability at all.

[LimMePls]

pops isn't making sense with the doublevoter talk. If someone took the doublevote unannounced and used it to quickhammer now, they'd be obv lynched for it tomorrow. Reading to me like one of those "Look how town I am for observing this completely irrelevant but 'town-like' piece of information".

How did you "know" LMP was town today then?

OK you're shotgunning posts, so going strictly by memory, it was because of the ability he passed me. Scum would never give me that I after I shot down one of them.

Are you fishing for a reaction here? Cause something aint right.

DGB's "I was confused" doesn't make much sense to me either. DGB is a really smart player. This is not adding up.

[LimMePls]

I'm not saying anymore about the passing of my ability from last night, because I get the feeling that someone is trying to out information that I don't want to out.

[LimMePls]

popsofctown is scum.

[LimMePls]

my god, just checking in....will try to catch up this weekend, and will give one of those.."here is what I think as I go out the door" posts...most of it will be ignored(now), until you know that I am town (ie dead)...but could be useful none the less.

ckd is still scum btw. Just saying.

[LimMePls]

Also, fwiw I'm beginning to think what this game needs is less circular arguing. A lynch is probably right at this point.

@IAI: Is there information you think is vital to the town that has not been gathered so far. What are we waiting for?

[LimMePls]

IF WE DON'T LYNCH HER, THOUGH, IT COULD BE LYLO TOMORROW AT 4v3v1

vote: DGB

Nice appeal to fear there.

Time's up, lets do this, LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEROYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY JENKINS!

Unvote
Vote: ckd

[LimMePls]

IAI+GOOFBALL+LMP
-versus-
TMH+REDCOYOTE+???

THE EPIC BATTLE RAGES ON

EPIC FLAIL

[LimMePls]

Oh, sorry, I thought that said "EPIC FAIL" Cause that's what it is, not EPIC FLAIL. That's different.

@Saint: ckd is scum. DGB is probably scum. The difference is massive.

[LimMePls]

1) We told CKD to pass the treestump to TMH.
2) CKD did not pass the treestump to TMH.
3) TMH flipped scum.
4) Scum cannot pass abilities to their buddies.

This sequence of events has no logical explanation but that CKD and TMH are buddies. There are plenty of other reasons why too.

@Saint: Do you honestly believe DGB is part of a second scum team and not a SK? What evidence do you have of this?

[LimMePls]

Is it just me or does saint have over half the posts in this day? The spamming is making me a bit glassy eyed.

[LimMePls]

CKD was seen posting elsewhere.

Methinks he has given up because he's scum, and his last buddy Q21 is a marked man.

If this is true, then where is our freaking hammer? Someone please for the love of god lynch this guy already.

[LimMePls]

i understand why I have to die today...and I know nothing that I will type will "save" me and I have limited time for these games, so I spent it else where...that being said..I am indeed town,

If you were town then you'd know that only trying to find something to say to "save" you isn't all you could be doing.

sure you could argue, get your thoughts out there, but no one will read them...what you need is the information of my alignment..i get that.

They would after you flipped town.

This needs to happen folks.

[LimMePls]

town win.

I think we should do a full massclaim. At this point we should be able to POE this game to an auto win. I'll entertain objections to this idea from IAI and implosion, plus any other CONFIRMED townies that I'm forgetting.

Also, I have notes from some reading I did last night. Posting that in my next post.

[LimMePls]

q21 did absolutely no posting in the neighbor QT last night, which is a bit of a change from previous nights. It seems like he had given up or otherwise knew that he'd get purged for sure. Something to note.

Do you folks want a copy paste of the whole neighbor thread? Was q21, implosion, myself, and ckd, although due to the way the ability works ckd was never allowed to post.

In most games quoting QTs can be a mod-killable offense. Please check with the mod before doing this.

[LimMePls]

I did some rereading during the night phase (not the full game, but some specific key events). Here are a few interesting bits I found from early D2:

@TMH case: I don't understand why it was scummy to take diddin's daykill power.

Trying to save tmh.

I passed my ability on.
MoI passed his ability to me. It is clear what ability he had.

Explain how this is possible if MoI died which should have happened before any ability cycling went on.



TMH passed his power to diddin it seems, therefore they cannot be scum together. Both, though, are scummy, but there is the potential to clear (at least mostly) one by lynching the other. TMH is currently in possession of a very protown power, for all that he gave it to himself, and diddin is in possession of a proscum power. Therefore I'm going to start the day with a diddin vote.

Vote diddin

q21 is scum. The vig/SK should have already taken care of this, but I'm noting it anyways. If q21 is still alive and DGB is dead, he is ABSOLUTELY our lynch.

This is such scummy posting. Feeling equally comfortable with two available lynches is legitimately possible for a townie, but I expect that position more from scum. Reminds me of my rather crappy SK play.

I await your glorious defense of themanhimself as the townie to end all townies. No? I'm exaggerating? Okay, maybe a little, but you get my point. Don't start tooting this horn if you're not going to stand up for it. I started theman wagon yesterday. I was one of the first to really call out Power for his nonsense yesterday as well (although I'll concede that there were others that were pushing for him stronger than I was). Unless you're prepared to man up and say that one (or both) of these positions is fake, then don't give me this mousy, theoretical mumbo jumbo about what I would and wouldn't do as a townie.

My vote, frankly, may be influenced by how these other votes end up going."
The phrasing here makes this not at all sound like "I'll help whichever needs a hammer at deadline", which would be much more ok.

As a townie, this influence should never happen, unless you think Bunnylover and nhammen significantly better at mafia than you are. There's no reason for it except to be in a popular place to be be, which is a scummy desire.

They're REASONING can influence you, and perhaps that's what made this seem ok to let slip. But you said votes, you didn't say you'd like to hear what they had to say.

An all of that aside, even if a gameplan of proxying your vote to the most popular wagon is proper pro town play, there's no reason to warn us that "my vote may be influenced by how these other votes end up going". We'll find out if it causes a change when we find out if it causes a change. Reading that you might sheep on nhammen's and Bunnylovers decisions doesn't make me have to replan how I play the game. Your vote is where it is, and it's possible it can change. That's always the case.

You're reading into this what I was worried might have been read into this statement from the moment I hit submit. nhammen and Bunny needed to make their positions known especially, above all other players at that point. When I said their votes would influence mine, I meant it, but not in the way you're assuming. In no way am I claiming nhammen and Bunny are sure townies here. Their votes wouldn't necessarily have influenced mine in the sense that I was going to vote with them, but that understanding which argument/wagon spoke to them more as replacements would help me assess which lynch showed more promise. Unfortunately, this decision was made before I really got the chance to continue on the issue.

---

A lot has happened, and I'm looking forward to reading what all has occurred since the day has started. I really wanted to make this post though because I don't think pops was being very fair with me in that post. I think he made it off the cuff and I hope this clarifies it a bit.

This stuff reads like safe distancing to me. pops never responds to this post, and instead gets into it with IAI. Neither slot ever voted the other. Also, see this chain of posts (on page 38) for more safe distancing between pops and a confirmed scum (ckd): 929, 930, 933. Look through pops ISO and it is LITTERED with safe distancing from RC, tmh, ckd, and q21. If anyone doesn't believe me on this, or is too lazy to do it, I'll go back through and do it myself, but it is litterally EVERYWHERE in that ISO. Lastly, pops was one of the ones pushing Bunnylover's "slip" early D2 as a reason to force Bunnylover to "eat the virus". Saint and SC were also involved in this. I'm pretty sure if there's still scum, one of the players doing that is it. Since pops has all the other connections, it's pretty much a guarantee at this point. If q21 death happened, DGB died, and the game is still going, pops is certainly the last scum.

[LimMePls]

I think, given DGB's still living, that either he is bulletproof SK, or scum tried to hit a confirmed townie and got blocked. Since DGB still lives, I think the number one issue facing the town today is:

DGB - SK or Vig?

@DGB: Would you object to your lynch at this stage in the game?

[LimMePls]

If the Doctor ability is no longer in play, then the conclusion must be that DGB is Bulletproof. A bulletproof, unpassable, vig? No.

Gah! Think. There's more than just one way. LMP will explain it to you, if you can be a little patient and wait for his arrival.

Before we do this I want IAI to come in and weigh in on a mass claim. I think it's the right way to go, but I don't want to start down a road we can't stop without full input.

@pops
ya rly!

Of course if pops has been cleared by passed abilities that changes everything.

[LimMePls]

IAI YOU DIDN'T COMMENT ON MASSCLAIM! I THINK WE CAN BREAK THE GAME FROM HERE. DO YOU THINK MASSCLAIM IS A GOOD IDEA!?

[LimMePls]

tbh the failed kill on implosion broke the game.

Is this an admission that you know a kill failed on implosion?

[LimMePls]

2) I had Track last night, and since IAI had to be the one to send it to me, I decided to obey his instructions, and tracked DGB. Her two targets were q21 and LMP.

@DGB: Are you still claiming you didn't have the purge ability the night NC died? You claimed to have had it prior to that, correct? Either you passed it to scum (who refused to claim the NC kill) who then passed it back to you (HIGHLY IMPROBABLE) or you lied about not purging NC. Which is it? If you will now admit you purged NC, why did you lie about it?

I had an ability last night.

@WC: Why is pops in green? I don't see any red players passing to pops in that list. Am I missing it?

[LimMePls]

IF YOU ARE VOTING RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY DOING IT WRONG AND BEING ANTI-TOWN. SO KNOCK IT OFF.

We have no deadline pressure and we have a veritable SHIT TON of minable data.

@IAI: I think LMP might have meant a massclaim of the abilities we're HOLDING, so we can confirm more townies at the expense of losing some PRs. I'd rather get some info on the third faction by lynching DGB though, so we can make sure confirmed innocents are actually confirmed to be innocent.

Mostly this. We have a set of confirmed towns and a set of unconfirmed towns. If we mass claim all abilities, we can orchestrate the usage and passing of all the abilities in the game in such a way that we are guaranteed a town win. At least, that's my theory.

But I actually have another idea I've been brewing where we massclaim, but in a controlled way:

We have all the NON-CONFIRMEDS do full claims, including their abilities. Then the CONFIRMED players discuss the targetting AND passing of those abilities. Ideally we force NON-CONFIRMEDS to pass to NON-CONFIRMEDS. In this way we create more links between the NON-CONFIRMEDS so that when we do lynch a scum, if the game doesn't end we should generate more CONFIRMEDS. We then proceed to lynch from the pool of NON-CONFIRMEDS until we hit the final scum.

Of course the downside to the massclaiming (or even the "semi" mass claim) is we're going to be conceding a kill to the scum every night, whereas right now they don't know who the best target is (due to protective abilities).

Also, I think DGB is the only proper lynch at this point. The fewer kills in this game state the better, and there is the incredibly likely chance that she is SK anyways.

TL;DR
What I'm saying is that I think with a mass claim by the NON-CONFIRMEDS plus some optimal strategy we can game this setup from this point to an auto win.

[LimMePls]

Also, should we ever get to a game state where there are only CONFIRMED players left, WE LYNCH POPS FIRST.

[LimMePls]

I agree somewhat DGB, but I'll tell you what I fear. By your own admission you have been "shelving" powers and have been going out of your way to be the hammer vote on players. My fear is that you are an SK with an alternate win condition: namely one that requires you to "shelve" a certain number of powers. My fear can be founded on this game where we faced an SK that had an alternate win condition tied to the mechanics of that game.

I just don't feel comfortable with you alive running amok, "shelving" things and causing what I see now as a very town-win state into a less town-favored game state. At this point, if you are town as you claim, surely you can see the benefit in limiting us to 1 NK a night and removing the SK speculation.

Please make two lists for me DGB, one where you rank all of the NON-CONFIRMED players from town to scum, and one where you list all the players together from town to scum. When you flip town as you protest you will, I promise you that while I'm alive, your input will be factored into future decisions.

[LimMePls]

So my suggestion:

The four confirmed innocents state whether they have the hibernate ability or not.

If none do, the person with the reuser ability randomly chooses one of the four players to protect. If one does have the hibernate ability, the person chooses one of the other three players to protect tonight. All randomly, and all quietly (DO NOT COME FORWARD WITH THE REUSER ABILITY, & ESP DO NOT SAY WHO YOU WOULD BE PROTECTING).

We lynch DGB. If he dies, we roleblock BunnyLover (who has claimed 0 abilities today) and Track StrangerCoug

If we lynch DGB and for some strange reasons he survives the lynch (Treestump?), we roleblock DGB and Track BunnyLover (who once again should have no abilities).

The the end of the night, Hibernate ability, and probably (?) reuser ability should be passed to Confirmed Innocent.

Thoughts people?

See, this is why I wanted to talk about it. This makes perfect sense, and is why I'm convinced we can devise an optimal (possibly automatic) win strategy.

So, if we're going to follow this route, then should none of the confirmed townies have the hibernate, we're saying that whoever has the hibernate is REQUIRED to pass to one of the confirmeds, but not to say who they are passing it to.

Also, if we're not going with a massclaim, has everyone satisfied our standard claiming? IE shouldn't we be full claiming our N3 and declaring if we had/didn't an ability last night? What exactly are we supposed to claim?

[LimMePls]

Also, should we ever get to a game state where there are only CONFIRMED players left, WE LYNCH POPS FIRST.

I'm

jealous

confused. Why pops first?

Cause I was pretty convinced he was scum?

Also, if we're not going with a massclaim, has everyone satisfied our standard claiming? IE shouldn't we be full claiming our N3 and declaring if we had/didn't an ability last night? What exactly are we supposed to claim?

All actions and states should be claimed EXCEPT who was passed to N4. This should include Night action results from N4.

N3 I Doc protected IAI with the reuser ability. I then passed it to IAI. N4 I had the Monitor ability. I monitored q21, and he had an ability.

[LimMePls]

The "don't kill me I want a scummy" buisness is... well, scummy.

@DGB: If you're town, I will be nominating you for best replacement. I hope that makes you feel better. Also, what's with the appeal to fear in 2732? If you have role information about the abilities you've shelved coming back into play when you die, then out with it. Hinting around it and threatening us with it isn't helping. Also refusing to make those lists I've asked you for isn't helping in your quest to appear town.

I support the plan from IAI. I still think we need to lynch DGB.

[LimMePls]

Is 1 day that important?

My theory was that this late in the game, yes that extra bit of information could push us over the edge into an auto win strategy.

This is mostly moot, I think IAI's plan is better.

[LimMePls]

Vote: DGB

Sry DGB, you know I still love you.

[LimMePls]

I roleblocked LMP last night.

SCUM.

Not following the plan.

THAT WAS AWFUL.

[LimMePls]

I roleblocked LMP last night.

Why? You had a claimed vanilla townie that is probably a top 2 suspect right now?

Here's for hoping LMP did not have the tracker last night!

I had the tracker and the doc. Plus one other ability. Do I claim them all?

At this point WC is the best lynch. There was a clear pro-town plan and he willingly violated it.

[LimMePls]

Then we get this gem:

There is still the possibility of more than 1 scum, so I'm not sure how LMP is now confirmed because I roleblocked him.

If blocking someone doesn't clear them because there are possibly other scum, then why on FUCKING EARTH would you block someone who wasn't a known VT?

[LimMePls]

The Reuser Ability from the previous day and current day should not come forward. I am even wondering with 3 confirmed townies if we should probably not state where the Hibernate Ability has benn / is either...

As for myself, I did not have any abilities yesterday not named ReUser or Hibernate.

Missed this bit in my RRRRRAAAGGGGEEE. So that cat is out of the bag. Sry.

[LimMePls]

Oh, and n4 I passed the monitor to pops. Which should be obv based on his flip.

I am in such a rage right now, I can't even begin to tell you how angry I am. WC, if you are town, YOU SHOULD QUIT PLAYING MAFIA. If you are scum, then you just cost your team any chance (however microscopic it was) at winning. So good job there.

WC is the only lynch I'll support today. Barring his holding a super important role (which I highly doubt). The only reason I'm not voting is I want all the claims that are needed out today, as well as the town to formulate another plan similar to yesterdays.

And let me make this abundantly clear:

IF YOU VIOLATE OUR TOWN PLAN, YOU WILL BE LYNCHED.

Should non-confirmeds who are VTs today announce that? This way we can pick a good target for the RB? Or would this be too dangerous in that it might narrow down the NK choices for the scum?

[LimMePls]

@WC: WE DIRECTLY TALKED ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY. HERE ARE THE QUOTES

@IAI: I'm confused as to why I am going to be roleblocked? I agree that I should be tracked because that would just further push me down the list to who to lynch.
I think the ability cop is still around, so that should be used on me as well, to counter act if scum has the tracker ability and lies to everyone in an act to take down one more townie before their death.

The roleblocker can also do more damage than good if we are not careful. For instance, we want to make sure the roleblocker is not used on someone who has the Tracker or Reuser Ability.

The fact that you already claimed vanilla makes you the obvious choice (assuming DGB is dead, if not he becomes the obvious choice).

BOLDED FOR FUCKING TRUTH. ARE YOU NOW CLAIMING YOU DIDN'T SEE THESE? DO YOU JUST NOT READ THINGS THAT AREN'T ADDRESSED TO YOU!? OR DO YOU JUST THINK YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THE REST OF US? THIS WAS THE WHOLE FUCKING PURPOSE OF CREATING A TOWN PLAN!! SO SHIT LIKE THIS WOULDN'T HAPPEN.

I MEAN GOOD FUCKING GOD. WE WERE IN THE MOST LOPSIDEDLY TOWN-FAVORED SITUATION I CAN FUCKING IMAGINE. HOW DO YOU DERP THAT UP!? SERIOUSLY, EVEN IF YOU ARE SCUM THAT IS THE STUPIDEST FUCKING THING I CAN IMAGINE.

YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO BE TRUSTED NOT TO FURTHER RUIN OUR GOOD TOWN POSITION. TY IF YOU'RE SCUM. NOW GO DIAF.

SUPER-ULTRA-MEGA-VOTE: WrathChild

@Furc-Saint: 1. This is not policy. WC acted in an INTENTIONALLY ANTI-TOWN WAY. Since we have to lynch from the unconfirmeds anyways, WC's actions make him the ABSOLUTE best lynch. I seriously can't imagine a scenario that would give us a better lynch for today. SC probably would have been better if WC had stayed on target, but we'll never know.
2. Why would you want to deter WC lynch anyways? Why are you calling it policy?

[LimMePls]

[quote=WC]Chances are that the remaining scum are bunny and LMP. I will support the lynch of Bunny over LMP for obvious reasons.[/quote]

What obvious reasons? Explain in full.

[LimMePls]

@implosion: It pains me to imagine it, but SC is the only lynch I'd even consider over WC. I still think WC is too stupid to be allowed to continue in the game. He's already cost us what could possibly have been a GG state today. No telling what he'll muck up for us if he's left floating around. Seriously, when yesterday started, because of what I had, I felt extremely confident that town COULD NOT LOSE. When we even devised a plan that guaranteed I wouldn't get blocked, I was CERTAIN of it. Then WC comes along and HERP DERPs it up.

I'm trying to clam down about this, but I haven't ever been more upset when playing a game of mafia.

[LimMePls]

I love how WC's story is changing. First he blocked me because he was so sure I was scum. Now his story is he blocked me because time was running out and he was getting "spotty internet access at night". Neither of these explain why on earth he would block me instead of Bunny. He still has not explained why he did so despite the fact that BUNNY AND IAI HAD EXPLICITLY DISCUSSED WHY BUNNY SHOULD BE THE RB TARGET AND THE PLAN EXPLICITLY CALLED FOR A BUNNY BLOCK (as opposed to the Trace and Ability Cop abilities, which called for the players to make a choice from the pool of unconfirmeds).

Look at these two quotes:

#1: He was the scummiest of the unconfirmed players to me
#2: I figured any mafia strategies would be focused on a roleblock on Bunny as that was discussed before, which I would have done if LMP was lynched yesterday because of #1.

I've been on the road this entire week and I get spotty internet access at night, so when I saw that the end of the night approaching and rushed my decision.

The story is changing to fit the narrative that puts him in the best light. The first story (before I posted) made it sound like it was a well thought out decision with multiple justifications for it. The second is like "zOMG I was like out of time and stuff, so I just made a decision". WC should be lynched.

I love how Bunny says we should all self-vote, but doesn't do it. HERP DERP. The level of complete idiocy is mind boggling. Why should we be self voting anyways. If someone gained the treestump and doesn't claim it, WHEN WE LYNCH THEM AND THEY DON'T DIE AND THEN THE TREESTUMP SHOWS UP ELSEWHERE WE AUTO KILL THEM TOMORROW. But whatever, I'll play along.

Unvote
Vote: LMP

This game is making my blood pressure raise so high. I still can't believe he managed to DERP last night up. It was so sick the awesome position we were in. We'd have a block on Bunnylover AND a track on [redacted cause I'm not sure if I should claim this].

[LimMePls]

I've asked the mod for another VC after Bunny's vote, I suggest everyone else ask too. The sooner we confirm we don't have the treestump to worry about, the sooner we get around to lynching WC.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: WC

[LimMePls]

I sent nothing to pops.

[LimMePls]

LMP is clearly trying to set me up here. He is purposely wordsmithing to make my comments contradictory when they were not.

#1: I blocked LMP because I thought he was scummier than Bunny.
#2: With limited access and the end to the night coming soon, I thought any of the non-confirmed players would be equally good targets. But as I was rushed I skimmed over the part about bunny claiming VT, which would have changed my targeting decision, but I repeat when I sent in my target I thought that blocking any of the non-confirmed players would have worked equally well, so I went with my top scum read.
#3: How was I supposed to know LMP had tracker?
#4: I sent my ability to confirmed town and am now vanilla.
#5: I sent nothing to pops. If I were scum and planned on killing pops, don't you think that would have been a good idea?

I love the martyrdom vibe here. "LMP is trying to set me up". The fact is, you started off saying that you chose to block me because you were sure I was scum. When you started to realize how bad a decision you made, you back tracked it to "well I was rushed". You weren't "supposed" to know I was the tracker, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BLOCK BUNNY BECAUSE THE PLAN SPECIFICALLY SAID IT AND THEN THERE WAS FURTHER SPECIFIC DISCUSSION ON THE MATTER OF NOT BLOCKING OTHERS BECAUSE THE BLOCKER COULD "DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD".

I am a firm believer that mafia is a game and should never include personal attacks like the ones LMP leveled at me.

QFT.

LMP, please refrain from any more personal attacks. It was either a huge townie blunder or a calculated scum move. As for the latter, I do not see how he could have known you had the Tracker, Reinitializer, and another ability....so not sure how calculated it could have been***

If an action is stupid, I'm gonna call it stupid. What I'll try and restrain myself from doing is calling the PERSON stupid. I don't seek out to make people feel bad, so if you feel personally assaulted WC, I apologize. But I'm not gonna give your actions slack when you do something that blatantly anti-town.

I accept that I freaked out a bit yesterday, but my blood was boiling. I just can't explain how monumentally frustrating it was to be waiting for 3 days on baited breath for what you are certain is going to be the final piece of information and knowing for sure you're not going to get blocked, and then WHAM. I'm starting to get heated again just thinking about it, so lets change the subject.

New subject: Where to go from here.

My proposed answer: Lynch WC.

The only other plan I'll accept is WC block + SC lynch.

[LimMePls]

Looking back at the passed abilities, if SC is scum I am not. If Bunny is scum nhammen is not and vice versa.

Too bad we don't have track results that might prove some of this stuff.

And calling me scum isn't going to make it so WC, sorry to tell you.

[LimMePls]

WC: You keep asserting you believe there are 2 scum left. What reason do you have for this assertion?

[LimMePls]

**Deep breath because continuing this argument is only making me want to rage again**

Can we PLEASE lynch WC. There are great odds that he is scum.

Are we missing any claims? What do we need to work out for a plan. What about:

Doc protects a confirmed.
Tracker tracks SC.
RB blocks Bunny (I'm reasonably sure that Bunny is VT, but if he isn't we could confirm this before we finalize the lynch)
All nonessential abilities (that is non Tracker/Reuser/Hibernate/RB) are cycled to a nonconfirmed to create further links that may prove useful if we have a scum flip and the game continues.

Should we entertain the idea of having the reuser WATCH instead of Doc? Some have proposed that maybe the new kill flavor means the kill is unblockable.

[LimMePls]

We would have won this game days ago if I hadn't been blocked. But I'm not bitter at all...

GG town, and FANTASTIC JOB MOD!

[LimMePls]

Side Note, Congrats MoI on the Scummy. When I saw you on that list, I knew my chances were slim!

x2

[LimMePls]

Why is LMP town? There's so much blood on his hands, and looking back at D2 the "three people you think are scummy please darla answer my question answer my question answer my question" is such fake scumhunting.

How exactly was that fake scumhunting? I wanted her dead, and I wanted solid relational information for what I thought was a coming scum flip.

[LimMePls]

@MOD: What do you think of the idea of multiple scum teams to help fix the swinginess? If a scum flip doesn't clear who he passed to (because that person could be scum from another team) it goes a VERY long way towards toning down the information gained from the power passing, while still making it relevant information (Player A can't be scum WITH Player B).

[LimMePls]

I've nominated the game for best new mechanic. I think this should get 2nd/3rd/Nth.