Mini 1127 Cult vs Masons OVER. TOWN WINS

[Nachomamma8]

Vote:

>.>
Mods not giving links >.>

[Nachomamma8]

15. Do not use red. It is my color. All use of this color will be edited. The only exception is if the color is being used in Vote Count Analysis or anything else where scum or scum reads

I love you <3

Anyways...

I figured optimum strategy was to lurk like hell until a head got lynched, and then explode into RAGE MODE so I could get recruited by the living head. But then I realized that optimum strategy for the recruiters was to quietly recruit a bunch of lurkers, so that doesn't work out. So instead I'm just going to go into RAGE MODE early so I'm too loud and too obvious for either of the groups to recruit, so I can stay my wonderful, beautiful, unscathed/brainwashed self.

Parama is pretty obvtown for figuring the same optimum strategy as I did.
Andy might as well be obvtown. He can't keep this act up forever if he's scum.

@Mod: Can you confirm or deny if there are any normal mafia in this game? I wasn't sure if this was confirmed as cult only.

Exe is mafia trying to confirm himself as town. It's a question that has absolutely zero chance of being answered, and I could easily see a bunch of people going "well I don't think mafia would draw attention to themselves that quickly in this setup..."

Vote: Exe

Hm, well then, Andy, lemme just ask. You have nice pretty setup speculation in your first post. But I don't see it going anywhere. I mean, great, Cult may well have a backup Recruiter or suchlike and very probably do not have regular nightkills in addition to regular recruition. Dandy. But what difference does this make for us now? And why don't you touch upon that at all? Why so much speculation and so little in the way of conclusions?

"Hm, well then, Andy, lemme just ask" sounds awkward as hell.
How is setup speculation "nice" if it doesn't go anywhere?
Finally, why the hell aren't these questions accompanied with a vote?

Plum is very likely the Cult Recruiter. And keep in mind that if we lynch her tomorrow after Exe and she flips Recruiter, I should be masoned/lynched the next day immediately.

ANDY. PARAMA, ANDY, EXE ALLIANCE IS GO.



I don't understand the scumandy argument. Sounds like Frenzy Mafia andy to me. Never seen your scum though.

Right. Definitely scum.
Buddies up to Andy, tries to get himself into an alliance early...

fuck, I messed up on my first post, should read:

Seems fidgety, self conscious. (not unself...)

Probable scum for even caring about his first post.

Parama, why do you hate my love for you?

I never said you were town. I think you're exaggerating the seriousness of the alliance.

Backtrack.

I see. In that case Parama's reasons for finding Exe scummy aren't so solid after all. Parama, do you agree with Andrius' assessment of what an Alliance is/should be?

This doesn't matter at all.
It's Exe's perception that matters.
And according to Cross Edge Bastard Mafia, he finds alliances to fit the "group of obvtown people clumped together" description.

[Nachomamma8]

TOWN:
Andy
Parama
chess

SCUM:
Exe
CoOlDoG
AV

Cult:
Plum

Null:
Everyone else

[Nachomamma8]

I don't think so.
As long as we make it clear that Plum is the cult leader, she should be taken care of by the mafia (who I'm assuming are unrecruitable).

Vas, my eyes are on Exe right now.
Do you have anything that can make me see the light with Andy?

[Nachomamma8]

Andy give me your CR tells from blackest night while I'm catching up.

[Nachomamma8]

I outlined CR tells, and I don't want to post them here right now for fear of telling him/her how to NOT play.

MY GOD ANDY YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THIS

[Nachomamma8]

Andy is starting an alliance, at page 2. Alliances are bad in cult games(Alliance people get recruited, and it'll be bad from then on.)

I'm still not seeing why this would be scummy of Andy, even though it's obviously wrong. In my experiences, starting alliances is his MO, along with breadcrumbing.

There is no point of doing an alliance to be honest,

what is the alliance members turn out to be cult

and they sneak in to the alliance.

Bolded mine.
There's no way in hell ender is CR.

Nacho, how do you determine Plum is the CR rather than straight scum?

I don't see Plum making that sort of mistake as normal mafia. As Cult Recruiter, most definitely.
Plus, overcautiousness is more of a newscum/3rd party tell, and Plum is about the farthest thing from newscum.

I left my vote there because "in that case" (i.e. under Andy's description) your reason wouldn't stack up, but I wanted to hear what you had to say about alliances before making a change. After waiting and you not responding, I've been considering moving to one of VV or Andy.

I don't like this. It's better to switch your vote too much than too little.

LOL I'm scum?

This is just a rofl-fest.

My god, I didn't think I was that much of a comedian. That being said, why are you so surprised about being called scum? The accusation came on about page three, so it's not like you've established incredibly townie play.

Plus, I don't give a crap who says what, I think the Andy + Parama + Exe combo is beast mode, and I proposed it in Frenzy long before I had any clue whether or not Parama or Andy where town.

I have a question for you, then. Were you serious about the alliance or not? Because this quote suggests that you were, and yet this post suggests you weren't.

Also, Nacho wants me dead instead of the person he thinks is a cult recruiter? That smells fishy as hell.

Why?

Hm? What act and why not?

The town act, and because he sucks as scum.

If you think it sounded awkward I dunno what to tell you; it was the phrasing that came to mind. 'Nice' was meant to be fairly sarcastic - that is, it's set up to look all long and pretty as a post so early in the game, looking like it's brimming with something useful. But with no conclusions, it seems more like intentionally trying to look useful but not actually something with useful conclusions applied. That said it was possible that Andrius meant to put in useful conclusions or imply ones that didn't come across (see my response to him above), so I wanted to poke around (and he didn't follow up with useful conclusions, so there you are).

It seems to me like the sarcastic dig at his speculation sort of contradicts the poking around you were trying to do. Why would you call his speculation bad if you were supposedly trying to determine whether it was good or not? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

I could've switched my vote to him, sure, but I didn't feel like it and didn't think I'd gain or lose anything by it.

This is a bit of a scummy mindset to have. Do you normally have it when voting?

Furthermore, if you believe so strongly that I'm the Cult Leader, why the heck don't you vote me now? Even if you think Exe is likely Mafia as well, Cult Leader is generally more dangerous. Some things aren't lining up with your suspicions here.

I'm not altogether sure that there IS a mafia.
But I am more sure that Exe is scum than I am about you being scum. And my reasons for you being CR are not altogether solid yet, so you're safe for now.

Soo, waiting for an answer to a question before I decide whether something is scummy or not is also bad play? Why are you so impatient? If Nacho has a good explanation for why he thinks you are CR instead of mafia, then he isn't scummy. If he doesn't have a reason - or has a bad reason - I would find him scummy. There's no need to speculate on his scumminess before he's answered my question.

Why exactly would it be scummy if I had a good reason, but not if I had a bad one?

But I voted Andy because he said he was joking around about the alliance; I fail to see why his words "Alliance is go!" should be taken as a joke when Exe said the same thing. It was this double standard that I was voting him for, as I thought was clear by my post. Andy only said that it was a joke a couple of posts before mine.

The South Park picture should have been your first hint.

Every time I think AV is seeming more town, he starts being suspicious again. I say to you, something is not right about AV.

What is that something? And why is this sentence all the attention that "something" gets?

@Andy: You're really not seeming like the Andy from Frenzy mafia. Can you at least comment on a player other than yourself? Because so far it seems like you're trying pretty damn hard to appear townie.

What are the differences between FrenzyAndy and CVMAndy?

[Nachomamma8]

@AV: Your entire explanation of how you are just being "patient" reads as a cop-out to me.

Cop-out for what?

Clearly if I think Andy is scummy due to his alliance shenanigans that lets VV off the misrep hook; if I think VV's scummy that means Andy's proposed scumminess due to the alliance is a misrep. I was trying to decide what side to come down on, and that decision was eased by Andy's "Oh I was joking (but clearly Exe wasn't!)" post.

You shouldn't need to think a vote through this deeply unless it's LyLo. If you're really thinking over a vote in this situation more than 5 minutes, you're overthinking.

Your vote isn't on me.
Sounds like someone is trying so hard to pick the pro-town stance that he can't even remember what stance he picked.

This doesn't make sense to me.

I really, really think CooLDoG is town.

Plum is high-suspect

Nacho is leaning town

I thought you weren't voting Plum at this point because you weren't happy that I called Plum CR and then didn't vote her?
If the net result was Plum is still scum and Nacho has a better chance of being town than scum, then why no Plum vote?

I know that. I was explaining why I hadn't unvoted. While deciding what to do (i.e. in the situation before I voted Andy) my vote is more useful on you than on no one. That's a statement in the (persisting/perpetual) present tense because the sentiment is still true despite the condition not being fulfilled. My vote is more useful on someone (in this specific case you) than on no one.

Parentheses are anti-town, haven't you heard?

[Nachomamma8]

Okay, then why aren't you voting for me?

[Nachomamma8]

Whoops, I thought I did that already.
I didn't vote Plum because I wasn't even sure if there WAS a mafia, so I figured I was best off voting for the person I felt strongest about. I also wanted to see how Plum would respond to the accusation, and of course I didn't want to tell her that.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: VasudeVa

[Nachomamma8]

I think you're the cult recruiter because of interactions with Andy. If your BROTHERHOOD with Andy is anything like a BROTHERHOOD that I'm used to, you wouldn't attack him as town with absolutely no reasoning like you have. You probably wouldn't do it as scum, either, because that's just drawing unnecessary attention to yourself. But, if you were cult that wanted to recruit him, going after him like this D1 would be a fine way to distance and make sure the Andy/Vas cult team you know you want to happen doesn't crumble at the first flip.

[Nachomamma8]

Well then why are you attacking Andy?
If you have reasons, the least you can do is give them.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not sure, does your argument just boil down to (gut)meta of Plum - "I wouldn't expect scumPlum to do this" - or a familiarity with the workings of CR's in general? It looks to be a bit of both, is there one that's more prominent than the other or are they equal?

It's mostly "I wouldn't expect scumPlum to do this". I have no experience at all with CRs of any type.

Nacho, if you had a bad reason I would have thought you were making one up to justify not voting Plum, whereas a good reason that actually explained the distinction satisfactorily would have been...satisfyingly townish.

Well, I wasn't voting Plum because I wasn't confident enough in my reasoning for her being CR. Had I had a good reason, I definitely would've been voting her, and it would've been scummy if I wasn't.

Why was I surprised at being called scum? Because I legitimately didn't think there were mafia until I was accused of being one.

You obviously thought that it was fairly possible since YOU WERE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT IT UP.

Regarding the alliance, I'm pretty sure I've made my stance clear on that so far. My last few posts have dealt with that issue repeatedly.

Then explain the post where you told Parama he was "overexaggerating the seriousness of the alliance."

Why is it fishy to want mafia dead instead of CR? Because frankly I'm still not convinced there are mafia, while we KNOW there is a cult recruiter and we KNOW cult recruiters get stronger the more you let them live. This isn't rocket science.
Occam's razor says go for the CR until we know there's anything else to fear.

Occam's razor says go for the scummiest person until they die, then rinse and repeat.

Since when have I only posted one sentence about AV? I don't see how you can even begin to make the argument that the sentence u quoted was the only time I gave attention to AV being suspicious. And that "something" is that I have a gut scummy read on him. Isn't that obvious?

You went "AV is becoming more like my experience with him." and then "now AV is becoming suspicious" with absolutely nothing in between.
And yeah, but it'd be nice if you could explain how your gut is setting you off. Even "I don't like this post" is x1000 better than just gut flip-flopping.

Seriously? I think someone is just asking questions for the sake of questions. This is starting to smell like an act to appear pro-town.
Read my posts accusing AV and tell me how exactly you don't understand what I am referring to. Please.

Do you think he's... copping out from taking a side? Because I thought he explained his conundrum pretty well.
Or is it something else that I'm missing?

[Nachomamma8]

Well then why are you attacking Andy?
If you have reasons, the least you can do is give them.

To clarify VV I trust your read on him.
I just need you to give me something to show that it's valid.

[Nachomamma8]

Because I'm not sure. Vibes. And I was hoping you'd explain why you didn't vote CR_Plum.
Though I feel most confident right now in voting a scumbag, of whatever color.

Unvote, Vote: Exe

CR is nice, but the supposed normal mafia is 2nd best.

ANDY THIS IS THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE VOTED SINCE YOUR RANDOM VOTE.
EXPLAIN.

[Nachomamma8]

Andy I wasn't asking reasoning for your Exe vote.
I was acting why it took you so long to vote nonrandomly.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: AdumbroDeus

FOUND HIM GUYS.

I get a flailing scum read a mile wide from this post. ATEs, Implicit appeals to consequences of actions, the works.

BUT IS THERE A VOTE?
NOPE.

GOGO LYNCH.

[Nachomamma8]

NICE TRY SCUMBAG.

BUT IF YOU CAN MAKE ASSOCIATION TELLS YOU CAN PUT DOWN A VOTE.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, I voted CoolDog page 5. You might have missed that.

I did.
But that's still taking a while to switch random votes..

Everyone after Nacho totally found any excuse to vote Adumbro.
We still have scum_Exe right in front of us.
And the VI_Squad to deal with.

ANDY: WE CAN LYNCH VV, ADD, OR PLUM. CHOOSE.
WE'RE NOT WASTING WHAT'S PROBABLY MY ONLY DAY OF BEING TOWN ON SOME BULLSHIT OBVSCUM LYNCH.

And I know that deadline is in a couple days, and I'm willing to claim early (like R/F) to let you all shift onto another wagon without being in uber-panic mode at deadline.

OR YOU COULD BE A GOOD TOWNIE AND VOTE ADD.
IS THIS MUCH TO ASK?

[Nachomamma8]

Lemme ask you this, if I was scum why wouldn't I vote? I had the perfect opportunity to do so while cloaking it in the wagon. I certainly gave a lot more reasoning then most people, it would've been easy to justify a vote and push a myslynch, especially when he was already at l-1, and the fact that since it was my first post with content in the game and the strong stance would mean that it would draw attention (even though he was an ostensibly safe target). Voting would've been the safe choice.

So why didn't I do it? Cause I hadn't caught up fully and wasn't settled on a target.

We have a term for this in my town. I don't quite remember it that clearly, but it has something to do with wine in front of me.
But, I'll play your scumbag games. Why would you as scum wait as long as possible before deadline to put down a vote? Oh, right. Because we can't question you on it, and because the person can't defend against.
GOOD TRY THOUGH.

[Nachomamma8]

But yeah. Either way you be drawing attention. And in the post in question you make no mention of needing to catch up or being on the verge thereof or anything.

SPEAK THAT SWEET SWEET TRUTH SISTER

^ you shut it

I like this guy.

Unvote; Vote: Exe

AV WE'VE ALREADY BEEN HERE AND DID THIS.
GET WITH THE PROGRAM LEMON.

Last 8 posts = useless.
AV, why aren't you hammering?

[Nachomamma8]

I had high hopes for you, too...

Exe has been obvscum for pages and pages and pages. We've all known this. He's the guy EVERYONE knows is scum.
But he's not CR.
We have to take a shot at the CR today.
So, I'll ask again. Why aren't you hammering ADD?

[Nachomamma8]

The triple 180 reads revision combo.
But I really like her #220, especially since that was when all the pressure was on Andy/ADD at that point. Her other posting has also been good compared to her first post, so I'm backing off.

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA until Monday

Lynch ADD over Exe. It's the smart thing to do.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Plum

If she wasn't scum yesterday, she's probably scum today because I sure as hell aren't. Also a good choice? Parama.

I think that I might kill Andy if he calls me CR without any reasons again.
Or hell, even just explain why he doesn't think the CR is lurking right now.

TL;DR: You're taking the safe route. If you think I am the CR, by all means, build a case, but if not, you're just picking the safe route, and that's scummy.

When Andy flips scum, Chesskid looks preeeetty bad today.

TL;DR: You're taking the safe route.

If you think I am the CR, by all means, build a case, but if not, you're just picking the safe route, and that's scummy.

[size=200When Andy flips scum,[/size] Chesskid looks preeeetty bad today.

When Andy flips scum

, Chesskid looks preeeetty bad today.

WHAT THE FUCK EXE??
YOU KNOW WHAT? I'M FUCKING GOING FOR GOLD TODAY.

UNVOTE, VOTE: EXE

[Nachomamma8]

Have to ask, though, going after recruit over going after Recruiter? Really?

I felt it would be a good placeholder.
And then I saw Exe's post.

[Nachomamma8]

Lol.

KEEP LAUGHING SCUMBAG AND TAKE THAT SHIT TO THE GRAVEYARD QT.

I was waiting for someone to pull that bullshit. Such a terribad

OKAY SCUMBAG. IF YOU WERE WAITING, MAYBE YOU WOULD MAKE IT CLEARER, HUH?

I am referring to "scum" as "anti-town." AKA, I think we are looking for cult members which therefore are scum. NICE TRY THOUGH.
You'll see that unlike the people who are claiming "THIS GUY IS SCUM AND THIS GUY IS CR SO LET'S LYNCH THE SCUM," I actually am of the opinion that the cult IS the scum.
In other words, your case is shit.

Speaking of shit, let's look at some of that of the BULL variety, from none other than THE SCUMBAG HIMSELF:

LOL I'm scum? I actually didn't even see that implication. I am of the belief that there are no scum, and in a game called "cult vs mason" I think asking whether or not it's only "cult vs masons" is a pretty fair question.

HEY THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE YOU'RE REFERRING TO CR.

Cooldog, weren't you scum in Fate's prison mafia?

LOL THAT DOESN'T EITHER.

Why was I surprised at being called scum? Because I legitimately didn't think there were mafia until I was accused of being one.

DID YOU JUST USE THE WORD "SCUM" AND "MAFIA" INTERCHANGEABLY? YES YOU DID, SCUMBAG.

I really hate when an honest question to the mod makes me appear scum.

NUMBER #5 RIGHT HERE BABY

If Adumbro flips scum, this is seriously bad. You're defending him here, especially when you end up agreeing with Nacho's arguments later in the same post? Seriously, why can't you pick a real side?

CR DOESN'T HAVE CONNECTIONS ON D1. #6.

I'm getting serious scum-mates vibes from Andy & Adumbro,

SEE ABOVE, EXCEPT SWITCH #6 WITH #7.

The fact still remains that you found Andy scummy but didn't actually take a stand on it, which reads as serious distancing. And mad scummy.

8+9

Meh, w.e. I'm not going to keep fighting this. I'm fine with either scum swinging.

DOUBLE DIGITS BABY!!!!!1111

Not spoilered to prove a point.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh btw, translation: "I knew I just needed my vote somewhere, and then I realized I could twist someone else's words around."

Oh, btw, translation.

[Nachomamma8]

That's right Exe. I saw you run.
You might as well remove this game from your bookmarks, too. Get your scummy ass out of my thread.

[Nachomamma8]

YOU KILLED FUCKING KATSUKI OVER ME?
I HATE YOU, SCUM.

[Nachomamma8]

As long as I'm alive from now on, a scumbag/cultist dies every day. This is my promise.

As a result, I'm WIFOM'ing all I want, thank you very much.

[Nachomamma8]

oh yeah, before I forget:

It's funny.

Because Nacho's case really was retarded.
I hate when people get lucky based on retarded cases.

Exe, Cult Recruiter, was lynched Day 2

[/b]

Oh, and I really was trying to just ask the mod the question about scum >.>

Basically this game I was caught based on things I legitimately did that were considered slips...So. Fucking. Annoying.

Exe, Cult Recruiter, was lynched Day 2

[/b]

and of course you didn't think they were slips. that's why you did them!
lol

[Nachomamma8]

don't know yet.
going to sleep soon.

i say Plum dies.
chesskid is confusing me. for thinking that Exe would recruit Cooldog. for going after cult today.

[Nachomamma8]

I like the new title though

[Nachomamma8]

>.>
Parama I hate you so hard right now.

[Nachomamma8]

He's probably mafia attempting to stay alive via claiming cult.

He's trying to stay alive... BY CLAIMING CULT?
PARAMA WHO VAS JUST SAID IS 100% TOWN IS TRYING TO STAY ALIVE BY CLAIMING CULT?
"herp derp I'm parama and im gonna live by claiming scum! Hooray!"

No. Bad.

[Nachomamma8]

Parama, we're in no rush to recruit you.
Town win condition is to win when all threats to the town are eliminated. Meaning that when we kill the scum, the game isn't over. Meaning that we can no-lynch and just recruit you.
But thanks to your cult claim, you just painted a "HEY IM A POSSIBLE RECRUIT" target on your back, meaning that mafia might kill you before you're recruited and completely screw you over.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm still thinking.
If we lynch non-mason today and no masons die during the night, then it wouldn't matter what he was. Which is why I want to keep him around.
At this point, there's absolutely no way in hell I'm losing to scum.

[Nachomamma8]

YOU just served a helping of scum in a handbasket?

[Nachomamma8]

Andy, it's no fun shooting the obvious scum. No fun at all killing something that's already dead.
What happens if we keep him alive for ONE day? Backup CR was thrown out the window as soon as AV died N1.

[Nachomamma8]

Andy you are driving me to insanity.
My time in this world is SHORT. VERY SHORT.
And Parama being lynched and me dying during the night would be BAD. VERY BAD.
THINK, ANDY.

PARAMA IS A PURPLE LEVEL THREAT RIGHT NOW.
IF HE IS MAFIA, DISTRACTIONS WON'T DO HIM ANY GOOD, FOR HIS PARTNER IS OUT THERE.
IF HE IS CULT, WHATEVER. WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO?
IF HE IS SK, HE IS IDIOT.
HE IS NOT A BACKUP CR BECAUSE WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE BACKUP CR CLAIM CULT INSTEAD OF RECRUITING MORE?
AND HOW THE FUCK WOULD THE GAME BE BALANCED IF WE HAD TO KILL 2 CR AND THE MAFIA? OR IF THE CULT COULD KILL?
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

WE KNOW THERE IS ANOTHER FACTION ALIVE. A FACTION THAT SHOOTS SCUMMY PEOPLE. THIS SEEMS LIKE SK. THAT MEANS WE COULD LYNCH SK TODAY AND LET PARAMA WIN WITH US. AND WE COULD HAVE HIM HELP US SEARCH FOR THE SK. THERE IS NO RUSH. WE HAVE TIME. WE HAVE OPERATING ROOM.

[Nachomamma8]

Andy.
I have to leave right now.
But I love you.
I love you with everything I've got.
THIS is the glory I was speaking of.
This is the love, Andrius.

Vote: Plum

[Nachomamma8]

Hello, everyone! Resident Mason here, now commanding you all to vote No-Lynch so we can go into night and win this thing. Sorry for not recruiting you last night, Parama, but we wanted to make sure that we had the majority of the town masonized before worrying about helping third party win. If you aren't recruited today/someone dies, you will be quicklynched tomorrow.

Vote: No Lynch

[Nachomamma8]

The setup itself was pretty balanced, I think. I also think that it wouldn't hurt to add an unrecruitable townie, but that's just me.

Andy, was your first post meant to be a breadcrumb? Because I had a NOT Mason Leader read on you the whole damn game because I swore you didn't have the balls to breadcrumb only town power.

[Nachomamma8]

and Exe's Cult Recruiter flip was absolutely priceless, considering the only reason I wouldn't let him get lynched D1 is because I was convinced he was mafia...

[Nachomamma8]

The "Kairys" bit was what I thought your breadcrumb was

Also love the fact that my crapshoot cases got both scum in my first post

[Nachomamma8]

UGH.

I hate that the reasons for wanting me lynched were:

A mod question that I ACTUALLY WANTED THE ANSWER TO. <<Not related to my alignment.
A joke about an alliance. <<Not related to my alignment

UGH

ALSO I TOLD YOU ALL THAT THERE WAS NO MAFIA BUT NO ONE FUCKING BELIEVED ME.

That's not why I lynched you

My lynch was incredibly dumb still, you guys never answered the question of whether town in my situation would do it (essentially post reads piecemail) especially considering it could've created a quicklynch.


Still, you applied the same type of reasoning to exe and killed him, so can't complain too much.

Sorry about your lynch .
I felt that you were town based on reactions to pressure, but I didn't think I could get Plum lynched based on the case I had, and I was starting to get paranoid that Exe could be Mason Recruiter, so I went with the safe lynch