Mini 1127 Cult vs Masons OVER. TOWN WINS

[Exe]

Vote: Chesskid3

Saving future trouble.

@Mod

: Can you confirm or deny if there are any normal mafia in this game? I wasn't sure if this was confirmed as cult only.

The roles listed in the OP exist. None of the other roles in the game are public. There may or may not be a non-cult mafia.

[Exe]

ANDY. PARAMA, ANDY, EXE ALLIANCE IS GO.



I don't understand the scumandy argument. Sounds like Frenzy Mafia andy to me. Never seen your scum though.

[Exe]

lets do the math
popular belief: I suck. Likely to be misslynched blah blah blah (not actually true but ok).
Result: Not getting masoned, because would have to claim it to save that, and masons claiming is badbadbad.
Popular belief: I get lynched a lot. (not actually true, but ok)
Result: Not going to get culted, if they think i'll just get lynched.

That's not math...


Cooldog's obvious sheeping is also noted.

[Exe]

Parama, why do you hate my love for you?

I never said you were town. I think you're exaggerating the seriousness of the alliance.

[Exe]

This is not the AV I remember from Gorrad's FFC Mafia.

Unvote. Vote: AV

[Exe]

LOL I'm scum? I actually didn't even see that implication. I am of the belief that there are no scum, and in a game called "cult vs mason" I think asking whether or not it's only "cult vs masons" is a pretty fair question.

Parama is just mean and doesn't love me back

Also, @Nacho:

It's Exe's perception that matters.
And according to Cross Edge Bastard Mafia, he finds alliances to fit the "group of obvtown people clumped together" description.

This is just a rofl-fest.
You're right, Nacho. One of my FIRST EVER games on Mafia scum

definitely

holds more weight than the game I was JUST IN with Andy & Parama.
I'm SO GLAD you were able to answer FOR me and tell everyone how I FEEL.
/sarcasm
But really though, CEBM was months ago. Andy has the right strategy, and frankly I don't see how you can make an argument for me believing otherwise because YOU meta'd me based on a game from the beginning of my mafia career.
Plus, I don't give a crap who says what, I think the Andy + Parama + Exe combo is beast mode, and I proposed it in Frenzy long before I had any clue whether or not Parama or Andy where town.
I'm happy to be in ANY alliance where people do what I say. I <3 the power.

Also, Nacho wants me dead instead of the person he thinks is a cult recruiter? That smells fishy as hell.

Andy backpedaling about wanting the alliance is both saddening and suspicious. It's time for some mo' pressure there.

Unvote. Vote: Andrius

AV is a little more like my experience of him now. That's a bit better I guess.

[Exe]

Lol, who is this and where is the real cooldog? You trying a new strat bro? You used to be pretty obvious as scum ...

[Exe]

@Cooldog: What contradiction? Also, I laugh at your accusation of bussing before we have a single flip


Every time I think AV is seeming more town, he starts being suspicious again. I say to you, something is not right about AV.

FoS: Ender

seriously trying to stay under the radar.

Sorry no more on-going game talk shouldn't have said that.

There is no point of doing an alliance to be honest, what is the alliance members turn out to be cult and they sneak in to the alliance.

VOTE: Andrius

Even i know alliances are bad and this could be just him trying to keep safe and not lynched because he is scum.

Why did it take you a full day to decide whether you found Andy scummy when you already understood the reasons in your previous post?
And that doesn't even address the fact that you didn't comment on anything else so far.


@Andy: You're really not seeming like the Andy from Frenzy mafia. Can you at least comment on a player other than yourself? Because so far it seems like you're trying pretty damn hard to appear townie.

[Exe]

@AV: Your entire explanation of how you are just being "patient" reads as a cop-out to me.

[Exe]

You mean deciding what to do with my vote is a cop-out?

Clearly if I think Andy is scummy due to his alliance shenanigans that lets VV off the misrep hook; if I think VV's scummy that means Andy's proposed scumminess due to the alliance is a misrep. I was trying to decide what side to come down on, and that decision was eased by Andy's "Oh I was joking (but clearly Exe wasn't!)" post.

While I decide what to do, my vote is more useful on you than on no one.

Umm, your vote isn't even on me LOL.

[Exe]

Woops hit submit.

Your vote isn't on me.
Sounds like someone is trying so hard to pick the pro-town stance that he can't even remember what stance he picked.

Fos: AV

Would be a vote but I like the pressure on Andy.

[Exe]

@exe, you wanted an alliance and now you back out and think its a bad thing. That is a contradiction.

Please show me where this happened?

I'm pretty sure what

actually

happened is that I called for a Parama-Andy-Exe alliance in memory of Frenzy mafia. But then Andy betrayed me and was all "Noooo, I didn't want an alliance even though I said I did." Which was scummy. So I voted him.

Your analysis of events is shoddy. Stop misrepresenting what is actually happening.

[Exe]

Exe: I totally didn't betray you. D:
It just happens to be pointless to form an alliance right now, especially since the cult recruiter is here throwing everything off. Wtih enough info I can form an alliance somewhere down the line, assuming I make it that far.

I understand the concept of why Alliance + cult = bad. Admittedly, my lack of cult experience made me not see it at first, but I understand the logic now and it's sound.
But you

did

still backtrack pretty hard from being like "Alliance yay!" to "Wait, but Exe wanted the alliance, not me!"

Gawd, who is more scummy? Cooldog, AV, or Andy? I can't decide.

[Exe]

Cooldog, weren't you scum in Fate's prison mafia?

[Exe]

hay exe, would you mind answering if you are still for an alliance?

Not now that I've realized that the CR kills any decent alliance. An alliance at this point would indeed be anti-town/

[Exe]

For clarity: That's a scum's excuse to stay on the biggest wagon.

I pretty much openly admitted to keeping my vote on the biggest wagon.
So, what is your point? I like wagons, you should know this by now.

[Exe]

Voting a viable wagon on your biggest suspect>>>>>>>>>>>>voting the biggest wagon just because. You should know this by now.

A suspect is a suspect. There isn't any blaringly obvious scum making Andy a bad candidate, so really I don't see your argument here.

[Exe]

Great, Nacho is one of those people that posts giant walls of text of 1000 questions that are insanely annoying to navigate.

Why was I surprised at being called scum? Because I legitimately didn't think there were mafia until I was accused of being one.
Regarding the alliance, I'm pretty sure I've made my stance clear on that so far. My last few posts have dealt with that issue repeatedly.
Why is it fishy to want mafia dead instead of CR? Because frankly I'm still not convinced there

are

mafia, while we KNOW there is a cult recruiter and we KNOW cult recruiters get stronger the more you let them live. This isn't rocket science.
Occam's razor says go for the CR until we know there's anything else to fear.

What is that something? And why is this sentence all the attention that "something" gets?

Since when have I only posted one sentence about AV? I don't see how you can even begin to make the argument that the sentence u quoted was the only time I gave attention to AV being suspicious. And that "something" is that I have a gut scummy read on him. Isn't that obvious?
Differences between FrenzyAndy and this Andy is that he spent Frenzy mafia on the offensive and never really seemed nervous. This time, not so much.

Cop-out for what?

Seriously? I think someone is just asking questions for the sake of questions. This is starting to smell like an act to appear pro-town.
Read my posts accusing AV and tell me how exactly you don't understand what I am referring to. Please.

So Nacho really seems to be asking questions for the sake of noise, not for the sake of scum-hunting. Half of these questions don't even make any sense.

I'm still pretty confident that Andy is something other than town, so I'll keep my vote there. Nacho is moving up on the list. Cooldog is moving down.

[Exe]

God Andy, everyone knows Mafia is srs bsns. What is this "fun" you are trying to have.

[Exe]

I really hate when an honest question to the mod makes me appear scum. Oh well.

You obviously thought that it was fairly possible since YOU WERE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT IT UP.

Your logic doesn't add up. I asked because I joined this game thinking it was mason vs cult ONLY. I wanted the mod to clarify in case I was wrong.

Then explain the post where you told Parama he was "overexaggerating the seriousness of the alliance."

I was pointing out that my alliance wasn't based on townie-ness, nor was it supposed to confirm anyone. I never take an alliance seriously, by which I mean I never look for only the most sure townies to ally with.

Occam's razor says go for the scummiest person until they die, then rinse and repeat.

I disagree entirely, but mmk. Go with what you know: you know there's a cult recruiter, so go for the most likely cult recruiter.

And yeah, but it'd be nice if you could explain how your gut is setting you off. Even "I don't like this post" is x1000 better than just gut flip-flopping.

Nope, I disagree. I like my gut, it's my main scumhunting tool, and it's proven a lot more useful in the past than fancy words and empty rhetoric. Or 1000 questions

Do you think he's... copping out from taking a side?

You win a gold medal for being right. Like I said, it was obvious. And regardless of how well

you

think he explained it,

I

think it's a cop-out.

Alright, the Andy-Rage can stop now.

Unvote.

I'm getting town vibes off ragemode-Andy.

Vote: AV

next best scum suspect. Wagon plz.

[Exe]

Everyone after Nacho totally found any excuse to vote Adumbro.
We still have scum_Exe right in front of us.
And the VI_Squad to deal with.

If Adumbro flips scum, this is seriously bad. You're defending him here, especially when you end up agreeing with Nacho's arguments later in the same post? Seriously, why can't you pick a real side?

And I know that deadline is in a couple days, and I'm willing to claim early (like R/F) to let you all shift onto another wagon without being in uber-panic mode at deadline.

A wagon just formed on another player, and you're still eager to claim? The only people this eager to claim are scum with a fake-claim set up.

I'm getting serious scum-mates vibes from Andy & Adumbro, including the whole andy-says-nacho-scum and adumbro-says-nacho-town part, where they conveniently pick both sides of the argument while making light conversation. Something is up here.

In regards to adumbro:

Lemme ask you this, if I was scum why wouldn't I vote? I had the perfect opportunity to do so while cloaking it in the wagon. I certainly gave a lot more reasoning then most people, it would've been easy to justify a vote and push a myslynch, especially when he was already at l-1, and the fact that since it was my first post with content in the game and the strong stance would mean that it would draw attention (even though he was an ostensibly safe target). Voting would've been the safe choice.

Meh, this point is weak because the argument could've been made for the opposite as well. A quick vote without much reasoning could have been damning too if Andy was town, so I really am not convinced that you were particularly risky by not voting.
The fact still remains that you found Andy scummy but didn't actually take a stand on it, which reads as serious distancing. And mad scummy.


I still say Andy should die first, but I'm not going to fight an Adumbro lynch as deadline approaches.

[Exe]

Meh, w.e. I'm not going to keep fighting this. I'm fine with either scum swinging.

Adumbro, claim. I will hammer.

[Exe]

@Parama: That's how it reads? Or that's what you're saying I should do?

[Exe]

I somehow forgot to switch my vote back to Andy.

Unvote. Vote: Andy

Don't have time for much else today. More tomorrow.

[Exe]

Ugh, I guess I can't leave yet.

Are you even fucking reading the thread?

Seriously, I said Andy was starting to lean town amid his rage.

However, I fucking quoted the parts of his LATER post that were once again scummy. It's not a contradiction, it's the fact that

andy made another post

.
It's not rocket science. Each post matters.
I mean, let's even look at Andy's most recent post:

Seriously, Exe, that was full of fail.
Exe-wagon is fine by me.
Unvote, Vote: Exe

It's been two fucking pages since I posted about that stuff. You're NOW going to go for it because AV pointed it out? I call bullshit sir.

[Exe]

Seriously. What's it going to be? Am I town or aren't I?

I JUST FUCKING EXPLAINED THIS.

Why don't you quote the ENTIRE part of my post that would answer this fucking question.
You quoted:

Seriously, I said Andy was starting to lean town amid his rage.

My actual post:

Seriously, I said Andy was starting to lean town amid his rage.

However, I fucking quoted the parts of his LATER post that were once again scummy.

It's not a contradiction, it's the fact that andy made another post.

DO YOU SEE THE BOLDED PART THAT YOU CONVENIENTLY LEFT OFF?
I do not see how this kind of blatant misrepresentation could come from town-andy.
But apparently no one sees that, so I guess I'll take your advice and between me and Adumbro, then the obvious person to lynch would be Adumbro.

Unvote: Vote: Adumbro

Also, Chesskid, your bandwagoning this game is at a new high.

[Exe]

haha look at that I WANT TO LIVE VOTE

that's ok exe, I'm BWing scum

You're right, my vote is being oh so valuable when people don't even see the obvious arguments for Andy-scum.

And nice try, but the case on me is crap. I'm still not even convinced that there are mafia in this game, but somehow I'm mafia with other ppl. Cool story bro.

Oh and, why did Adumbro stay at L-1 for so long? Because he isn't around and there's not really a good reason to hammer without a claim.

[Exe]

W.e, you're wasting your time. Andy + Adumbro have been completely scummy whereas the case on me relies mostly on me calling for an alliance based on another game, asking the mod a question, and forgetting to vote. Whatever.

That wasn't what it looked like with the unvote. You had to have pretty strong convictions that Andy was town to remove the pressure from his wagon.

I never "had to have" anything. I unvoted because I wasn't confident and he was starting to read town. I don't see how that's so impossible to understand.
But the fact is, his actions regarding Adumbro coming into the game were FUCKING SCUMMY AS BALLS.

So you quoted how scummy he was, said you really wanted to see him lynched, and then conveniently forgot to vote for him?

Yes. I'm sorry, people forget things sometimes, how is this so hard to believe?

[Exe]

Gah, today is mad busy. I have time to post and say that Parama reads town to me, though I'm not sure if I've actually played with Parama-scum yet. Either way, I don't support a Parama lynch.

[Exe]

Yeah, Adumbro's posting is bad. I'm reading this Parama wagon as an attempt to curb the whole "scared of voting" case on him by picking a completely different target and pushing it hard. With how much time he spends explaining which options would have looked the least scummy, I have no problem believing that this whole thing is just one big act to convince us all he's being too daring to be scum.

Vas's constant unfulfilled promises for posts as deadline rapidly approaches is a bit frustrating >.>

I also apologize for my slight disappearance. I have just moved into a new apartment that doesn't have wired internet, and my desktop didn't have a wireless card.

I'd rather hit MOST LIKELY SCUM than POTENTIAL CULT RECRUITMAN

Why are we still letting people get away with this philosophy? Until we know otherwise, I am assuming that cult is what any scummy person is. There's really no basis to the argument that finding a scum is MORE likely than finding the cult recruiter.


Andy has also completely stopped contributing. That really doesn't read well. I'm pretty happy with an Andy lynch at this point. Town have every reason to continue to contribute as much content as possible in their dying hours, whereas scum have every incentive to clam up and stop contributing once they feel their death is inevitable. This Andy play is scummy Andy play.

[Exe]

you are posting text walls with nothing in them. All fluff, no stuff.

Who is this even directed at?

Because my post contained actual analysis of players and legitimate reads, so this can't be about me.

[Exe]

It was at add, if you were reading the game thread you would have seen that he asked me a question.

Lol. If I wasn't reading I wouldn't have taken the time to ask you who you were referring to.

Nice mudslinging, but maybe you should learn to specify an antecedent in your posts. "You" could refer to literally anyone in this thread, and so when you make a post after two other people have posted that refers only to "you," it's impossible to be certain which person you are referring to.

[Exe]

@VV: While your active-lurker argument makes perfect sense, I don't see the likelihood of an Ender wagon this close to deadline. And a lynch is far better than no lynch.

Then prove it, tell me what was wrong with the reasoning? Yes it could be an awesome act, so could everything, but you have yet to explain why, instead you just ASSUME it's a scum tactic.

This is a completely ridiculous defense, and I see it used SO often on this site, particularly by scum. Someone accuses you of attempting something subversive, and you respond with "then prove it!!" whilst completely knowing that it's IMPOSSIBLE to "prove" that anyone is doing anything.
You can't PROVE that parama is just bandwagoning, and isn't actually just playing his usual town meta.
You can't PROVE that Andrius is scum-raging instead of town-raging.
I can't PROVE that you're scum and this is an act.
Why? Because we're not psychic, so I don't KNOW what you are thinking.

And that's where these wonderful tools such as analysis and scumhunting come into play. Because we have to decide for ourselves who is scum and who is town.
And the fact stands that I think your push on Parama is an attempt to appear too un-cautious to be scum.


Now, I actually must contradict myself. There is

one

way to "prove" whether or not your scum.

Unvote.

Soon-to-be-vote: ADD.
Giving you time to claim, but I can't see much that will save you at roughly an hour from deadline.

[Exe]

[quote="AdumbroDeus]Incorrect, you can establish that town in the given situation wouldn't do what was done. If I was, as I said, still reading the game and figuring out who to vote, why wouldn't I decide to not toss it out on somebody that was l-1 a few posts ago if I wasn't sure he was my first choice for lynch or at least a compromise lynch. [/quote]

Right, but the thing is there is always gray area. Rarely do people do things as scum that they would NEVER do as town, and the opposite is true as well.
Sure it's

possible

that you're genuine and doing these things as town, but that doesn't mean I think you

are

.
A lot of things are "possible" and it's quite easy to reason your way to a viable explanation for your actions.
But I still have to make my own decisions, and come up with my own conclusions. And my conclusion is that you're lying.

Vote: AdumbroDeus

Die scum.

[Exe]

Oh, deadline was PM. O.o it was really really early when I posted...

I'm fine with it though. I've still got my money on ADD-scum, and the whole "no reason to lie," is, like you both said, complete crap.
I've had too many scum pull that move on me to ever trust anything but a flip

[Exe]

Andy, your big complaint is that people are lurking, but you're going to disagree with Vas that we need to go after the lurkers?
That's completely inconsistent.

And your explanation for your rage makes sense, but says nothing at all about your alignment. I think one of the most frustrating things in this game is being wagoned as scum for faulty reasoning. So don't think your apology & rage made you any more pro-town.

And finally, if you think the top are cult recruiters, why the hell aren't you voting them? The recruiter has had 1 night already, I'd rather not continue giving him the luxury of being alive.

Vote: Andy

If your other scumtells weren't enough, this stubbornness regarding a CR lynch is scummy as hell.

Here's the issue with the strategy: you're taking the safe route, and otherwise I see no reason to be going for "mafia" instead of "cult recruiter."
How is it safe? Well, until we see an actual "mafia" flip, we still don't quite know if we are even truly dealing with a scum-team.
So, as long as you keep pushing to lynch "mafia" any town-flips can have the inevitable defense of "well maybe a scum-team didn't really exist," to cover up your pushes for mislynches.

Going after the CR however means that you have to actually have to stick to your guns and affirm your reads as accurate to a CR. And that's much more difficult to do.

TL;DR: You're taking the safe route. If you think I am the CR, by all means, build a case, but if not, you're just picking the safe route, and that's scummy.

When Andy flips scum, Chesskid looks preeeetty bad today.

[Exe]

I don't see the argument for Cooldog-CR at all.

Just Iso'd CK, and realized that he's been deliberately fighting the Andy wagon all game.

Connections much?

Lynch Andy. When he flips scum, I'm looking at CK next.

[Exe]

BETTER IDEA
DONT LYNCH ANDY BECAUSE HE WONT FLIP SCUM?

Sorry, but I don't see any reason for him not to?

[Exe]

LOL

ROFL

I have made a fucking case. Good job reading the thread.

[Exe]

Lol.

Are you trying to call me out on a contradiction?

I was waiting for someone to pull that bullshit. Such a terribad

I am referring to "scum" as "anti-town." AKA, I think we are looking for cult members which therefore are scum. NICE TRY THOUGH.
You'll see that unlike the people who are claiming "THIS GUY IS SCUM AND THIS GUY IS CR SO LET'S LYNCH THE SCUM," I actually am of the opinion that the cult IS the scum.
In other words, your case is shit.

Want to see some legit misrep though?

Exe's setting up lynches. Different than the typical sort of 'Let's lynch X but is he flips Town lynch Y afterwards'.

Lynch Andy. When he flips scum, I'm looking at CK next.

but is he flips Town

he flips scum

NO FUCKING SHIT LINING UP LYNCHES BASED ON TOWN FLIPS IS ANTITOWN.
THATS WHY THATS NOT WHAT I'M DOING.

But cool, 2 votes based on Nacho going "LULZ WORD CHOICE" and Plum going "LULZ MISREP."

Please, let's see some actual cases thanks. Nacho, you haven't made a single case all game that wasn't ridiculously circumstantial.

@Vas: I do agree with you, but frankly I thought the main lurkers were Ender, Adumbro, & AV, and now 2 of them are dead anyways. And I doubt Ender would be putting up this big of an act as scum.

[Exe]

Have to ask, though, going after recruit over going after Recruiter? Really?

I felt it would be a good placeholder.
And then I saw Exe's post.

Oh btw, translation: "I knew I just needed my vote somewhere, and then I realized I could twist someone else's words around."

[Exe]

Let's address each of my "shit" quotes.

1. You accused me of being scum, so I used your word. DOESNT CHANGE THE FACT THAT I CALL CULT SCUM.
2. THATS NOT EVEN RELATED TO THIS GAME. Are you fucking serious?
3. Again, regardless of how the words are used I STILL CALL THE CULT SCUM.
4. Still doesn't affect the fact that I refer to cult as scum.
5. How do you know how the cult works?

Nacho knows for a fact that there are no Cult-related roles in this game?

6. Again, I saw a connection. I see no problem with that.
7. Really no relevance.
8. Again, no relevance.

Oh look, I use the word "scum" to refer to cult in this game BECAUSE THE CULT ARE THE ANTI-TOWN (SCUM) FACTION THAT I KNOW EXISTS. Such a surprise!

Your little word-play game is really fucking cute, but it means absolutely NOTHING and so while you pull these nonsense arguments, you get 2 extra free votes on me from the Sheepers who won't actually contribute anything pro-town to this game. Lol, right.

Nacho, you're either really scummy or really prone to completely shit logic. Either way, you should get a real case sometime soon.

[Exe]

That's right Exe. I saw you run.
You might as well remove this game from your bookmarks, too. Get your scummy ass out of my thread.

Lol, wtf does this even mean?

[Exe]

My case on Andy: lack of contributions, eager to defend himself, very little in the way of real scumhunting, strange distancing, & overall not pro-town play.
Nacho's case on me: I used the word scum. And I also told people to go after the cult, which is what I've been doing all game.

But you're right, you have the real case Nacho. Far be it from me to actually scum-hunt while you spin words.

[Exe]

It's funny.

Because Nacho's case really was retarded.
I hate when people get lucky based on retarded cases.

[Exe]

Oh, and I really was trying to just ask the mod the question about scum >.>

Basically this game I was caught based on things I legitimately did that were considered slips...So. Fucking. Annoying.

[Exe]

Oh and btw, take what you will of this, but I received information N1 indicating that there really is a scum faction.

[Exe]

UGH.

I hate that the reasons for wanting me lynched were:

A mod question that I ACTUALLY WANTED THE ANSWER TO. <<Not related to my alignment.
A joke about an alliance. <<Not related to my alignment

UGH

ALSO I TOLD YOU ALL THAT THERE WAS NO MAFIA BUT NO ONE FUCKING BELIEVED ME.

[Exe]

Also, </3 Parama for betraying me... -_-

[Exe]

SK is mafia :teach:

No it's not...Mafia is mafia. Cult is cult. SK is SK.

All can be loosely categorized as "scum."

But all 3 have very different tells, hence mafia =/= SK.