Road to Wrestlemania: Game over - WWF wins - BANG BANG!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Predictably co-signed on to the VPB plan at least the eliminating people we don't want to see in LYLO part of it.

European Uppercut: Vezo

Pumphandle Slam: Vezo

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well I plan to keep linking because while a European Uppercut might not need to be explained unless we've got fans of Mitsuharu Misawa an Emerald Flowsion will probably require a visual aide.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Bella: I don't think the mod really cares if you make up a move as long as it's bold and conceivably could be a move I think it's going to count. So it's really just an attempt to add to the flavor on my part. Also, you should've voted Vezo, it makes sense to clear the players completely off the deck before moving onto the next ones as to minimize the number of moves they can use. So we should be dogpiling individuals one at a time to get rid of them and then moving onto the next one; not spreading our votes out.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Nero, vezo has already been eliminated from the Rumble; perhaps you should try paying attention.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Q: Doesn't the vig plan then likely destroy their use as a vig since if we're assuming there's a vig it's far from unreasonable to assume there's also a roleblocker. I think it's been established in MD that a vig is one of the most powerful and useful town roles so I'd hate to lose that if we have one. Now it'd be nice to create a confirmed town out of that; there'd be little reason for scum to claim vig because then they have to either use the scum kill on a town choice target or increasingly claim to be roleblocked etc but it's not impossible to see it happening. Also, that ignores the possibility of a SK taking up the mantle and pretending to be a vig and really wrecking our shit; too many variables for me to like the plan.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Blue Thunder Driver: Nero

Cop Killa: Nero

VPB, I think KK is likely town as well; he's at least thinking about how to help the town even if he was wrong about the specifics.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Been judging at a debate tournament since 8 AM; blech. Rather annoyed with those who can't or won't take direction and insist on screwing around. I know it's not as fun as a wild ruckus but it's far more useful.

Shadows Over Hell: SnakePlissken

Ki Krusher: SnakePlissken

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I should note that I also agree with VPB about the WIFOM argument as well and I think everyone that is ok with not being WHC should be obliged and eliminated promptly once we finish off the dregs. Because anyone who doesn't think they should be WHC has better information to make that decision that we do either regarding their skill or role or other considerations and they're opinion should be respected or they're lying and want to be WHC but are just trying to pull a double move in which case they're not fit to be WHC.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unless Kise's moves don't count for some reason you're hitting redundant moves there sotty/zach. Start the next chain. Also it appears that Gobots has decided to take a cowardly approach and only hit those who can't hit back; why else would he burn just one move finishing Snake instead of doing that and working on another target?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Kankuu Tornado: jediknight

Standing Corkscrew Shooting Star Press: jediknight

Yo VPB are the hearts on your Kadabra new?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

German Suplex: GoBots

Brock Lock: GoBots

There has to be a balance between speed and the optimum outcome; but whichever mode is preferred it still requires us to take people down to one or two moves. So I propose we make this the first test of the idea. Someone else hits GoBots with two moves to send him down to one move from elimination; from there his sole responsibility will be move to everyone's least favorite lurker, Trendall, down to two moves. As long as he does that we keep him around; if he chooses to disregard that order he gets tossed. Agreed?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I don't have a problem with 1/3 because anyone knocking someone out at that point is basically just saying, "hey, eliminate me next because I hate the town" and I think we'd be happy to oblige them.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@GMan, you like 334 but you don't implement the plan in it? I clearly stated that Gobots should be sent to one move from elimination (which your moves would've done) and then he should be voting Trendall not that others should be voting Trendall which runs counter to the idea, presented.

Hey VPB, off-topic but how up to date is your Wiki page?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@SottyZach I think that's more the plan for those who aren't legitimate contenders. Basically everyone from Hoppster on up should be moved to one move away from elimination and everyone from you through KK should be taken down to around 3-5 moves away from elimination.

Roundhouse Kick: Hoppster

Half-Nelson Bulldog: Hoppster

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Hoppster, there are several reasons the plan works. First, we've already gotten rid of the true VIs who would cause problems just for the sake of causing problems. Next, I think it's your criticism that's short-sighted because right now unless you're tossing those at E-1 then you're basically working under the plan; unless you're eliminating people at this point or systemically trying to down a contender you're working within the plan. Even the E-1s have an incentive to work within the plan because if they do that means they may not be champion but they get a voice at the table to help decide who is; additionally if they really want to be champion then some hope is better than none. What if someone no-shows one day with their moves; that could allow an E-1 to grab the title. Last but not least is that this part of the game isn't separate from the rest; if someone wants to cause problems then they can but not only will it cost them the aforementioned things, but will also irritate the rest of the town and thus put them and their side in a worse position once we advance beyond the RR.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Baby Spice, apparently not enough time to read the thread though.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Rib Breaker: AurorusVox

Rib Breaker: AurorusVox

Powerbomb: AurorusVox

F5: AurorusVox

Cross-Legged Knee Breaker: GMan

Indian Deathlock: GMan

Stalling Vertical Suplex: Kublai Khan

German Suplex: Kublai Khan

Dragon Suplex: Kublai Khan

Tiger Suplex: Kublai Khan

Seems like I'm going to use all my words on moves at this rate.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sotty, Zach: why are you hurting the chances of someone you'd think would be a good choice for champion by your own admission?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well I guess I'll come out and say it instead of pussyfooting around the issue. Unless I'm mistaken Kise, Sotty/Zach, and KK all have explicitly said I'd make a fine champion; GMan has acquiesced to not being champion and...

Avalanche Brainbuster: Erratus Apathos

Who cares what EA thinks now? The VIs hate the idea of me being champion and I'll say it, I should be champion.

So let's get this done; today/tonight.

Whoever is next around of Sotty/Zach or KK pitches GMan out
Then Sotty/Zach or KK pitches the other one of the pair and Kise
I pitch out the remaining participant and we're set.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sigh, looks like we'll have to wait till tomorrow to resolve this.

Double Arm DDT: Sottyrulez

Shining Wizard: Sottyrulez

LARIATOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!: Sottyrulez

Leg Drop: Sottyrulez

Yakuza Kick: Sottyrulez

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well if 2 AM eastern is the standard for a reset then I guess I'll go ahead and make chesskid very sad.

Snake Eyes: Kise

Running Big Boot: Kise

Leg Drop: Kise

Cross-Legged Knee Breaker: Kublai Khan

Indian Deathlock: Kublai Khan

Stalling Vertical Suplex: Kublai Khan

German Suplex: Kublai Khan

Dragon Suplex: Kublai Khan

Tiger Suplex: Kublai Khan

Last Ride: Kublai Khan

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The Champ is Here

Do not like that she was participating without reading the thread fully and then tried to cover by saying she disagreed with the plan anyways. If she disagreed with the plan she could've/should've said so instead of using that as a post-hoc justification for her behavior.

Exploder Suplex: Baby Spice

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Been in Cincinnati the last two days; will have a series of catchup posts over the several hours.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

For a myriad of reasons catch-up posts are being pushed back to early tomorrow (Monday).

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Baltar did a good job in busting chesskid’s chops early and getting an easy and obvious town read from him.

I like AV’s vote and reasons on Baby Spice other than the point about self elimination which I feel is null since player’s would know that such behavior would come back to haunt them.

I don’t care for Thor’s attempts to characterize Baby Spice as a VI, she replaced into a newbie game I was ICing a few months ago and I thought she was perfectly competent. I generally think of defensive play as town play so I lean town on Thor for now, but I don’t agree with his arguments about BS.

I know sotty isn’t the most aggressive player, but zach is and if their hydra takes on any qualities from him I’d expect more contributions. Sotty/Zach should’ve been a power player in the Rumble and they really weren’t.

I agree with Brosius’ latest vote about Snake’s vote coming for a non-reason and that it is bothersome.

One last paragraph from me after somebody else posts.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Thanks chesskid... yuck.

I think Hoppster’s play late in the Rumble follows much of the argument that I made about KK earlier in the Rumble; I don’t think he was right but I think he was actually thinking about what was best for the town which counts for something. I think he’s been wrong so far in what player’s he’s going after but again I don’t see anything that suggests to me that he’s scum in that just that he's looking for the wrong things.

I'll take any other follow-up if you have it. I still think Baby Spice is a good choice for a lynch and I'm pretty ambivalent to the other wagons with more than one vote.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Thor, that's not a bad thing, ithat's a good thing. The reason they didn't get mentioned is that they're both neutral/neutral-town leans. I don't especially care for IS' playstyle but it seems to be consistent and he's attacking/attacked a target in NC that I don't especially care for. In regards to Gobots I simply don't see anything since his slightly bothersome Rumble phase where he looked a little opportunistic that stands out as scummy and frankly in retrospect I like his admission that he wanted the belt.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Man, I'd love to hear how big this conspiracy could've been if I'd said I thought IS was scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Yeah, I just went and randomly jumped back through my posts over several games and found multiple cases of town players using parenthesis to clarify or limit their statements; not a scumtell.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So you're basically proposing a policy lynch jediknight?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Koji Clutch: Trendall

Definately a better wagon than Brosius, mostly because I actually like SB's vote on Snake.

~~~

VPB, you have to decide if sotty/zach is town or scum right this very second, what do you say?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Fuck, I was going to say an easy scum read because they have been reading that way to me but when I started my write-up I started to see some parallels between their play and my play in Utopia and now I'm getting paranoid again that I'm reading the Thor/Sottyrulez thing backwards.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So, quoting is banned and yet you just quoted that post.

And Trendall's newness doesn't excuse or counter his complete absence of scumhunting; playing a large game like this is certainly different and you might not be effective in getting together a wagon but that doesn't mean you don't see something scummy and go "hey, this is scummy" just like in any other game and so far Trendall has completely failed to do that.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So we've got ten players "catching up" and another ten screwing around voting for people with no chance of being lynched or not voting at all. Yes, this game is going swimmingly.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VP Baltar is also responsible for putting flouride in the water. And yes Snake, by mentioning fluoride I'm soft-claiming Dr. Issac Yankem DDS.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That last two bristep posts are just brutal.

What the hell is up with Gobots rather pointless, "hey lets pressure lurkers when we have six days to deadline" nonsense?

Jediknight has moved from wanting a policy lynch but not calling it a policy lynch to wanting a policy lynch but not calling it a policy lynch.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Jediknight has moved from wanting a policy lynch and being fine with calling it a policy lynch to wanting a policy lynch but not calling it a policy lynch.

FIXED.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Four days to deadline and Sotty/Zach are still screwing around with voting players who don't even have a mini-wagon on them. I might be able to rationalize such behavior from players I don't know or don't think much of but knowing those two it bothers me immensely.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

SZ, I think the case is fine but not significantly better than say the bristep case/wagon and I'd like to see that kicked up to being a viable second wagon which might actually have an impact on the game rather than a single vote on snake which accomplishes absolutely nothing at this juncture.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Let me interrupt the rampant flavor speculation because it's pointless as it pertains to me since I'm not Shawn Daivari.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

How would I know Baltar? If you want me to randomly speculate I can do that but I have no special insights.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sorry that I don't have some wonderfully crafted story of light and illusion to throw your way IS, guess you'll just have to live with the truth instead.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vezo, I get it now and yes my hometown is identical to one of the ones listed for Davari.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That's because my wrestler wasn't born in that town, Vezo, he's just billed as being from there.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You're both idiots, Vezo's information is accurate he just made a very incorrect assumption and a bunch of idiots and some people who should know better decided to pile on for no apparent reason.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Nah, you're clearly a VI at this point if you think Vezo is anything other than a Hometown Cop.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If it wasn't obvious already IS I'm not going to claim.

Zach/Sotty, panic, instant claims, and instantly voting your accuser are for the weak and stupid who only play the game in the most simplistic of manners. The fact that you'd expect me to act like a chicken with my head cut off is actually a bit insulting.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well let me say once again and for the last time, I'm not claiming anything right now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

KK's 1290 completely blows up IS' 1288 as just completely fraudulent.

Bristep's 1296 fails to consider the possibility of a town player gambiting for unknown reason along with town telling truth and scum lying.

Chesskid fails to understand that when I refuse to claim at the request of players I respect it's not exactly likely that I'm going to oblige a windowlicker like himself.

Chesskid then affirms his VI credentials by suggesting a mass name-claim forgetting that since Vezo outed himself he's likely to either be blocked or killed on any given night; thus defeating the point of the mass name-claim but also handing scum possibly useful information.

Oh and Kise is clearly not bothering to read the fucking thread or at least the earlier parts of it regarding me; I actually think his insight into the SK situation is plausible.

You know what I actually really like VV's case on GMan, it's simple but it makes a fair amount of sense and I think it's getting glossed over and deserves some face time.

Vertebreaker: GMan

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

When furcolow and chesskid agree on something you can be assured that it's a bad idea. Also, furcolow brought up the mass name-claim idea after I'd already shot it down. Do I think he's not reading the thread? Likely.

Kise's point about me "not scumhunting" ignores the fact that there was a claim and bad assumption that I had to deal with and it was slightly important to put out that fire and then I came back to scumhunt when I next had access.

GMan posts jumping on to the biggest wagon and completely ignores VV's case on him and my vote for him pushing that case. I'd suggest he's trying to escape under the radar by not bringing extra eyeballs to it. I don't think he should be allowed to do so so I'll bring the topic up again.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Yes, Kise there are no other wrestlers from Minneapolis I could claim.

@Mod: Do I have the ability to move the other titles around? Because if so that'd be awesome for me to know, thanks

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Kise, I think you're wrong about the title belts (I think it's the IC/Tag Champs who can move their respective belts not me) but it doesn't hurt to get it clarified.

@Also Kise, heel hunting strikes me as a foolish idea; Bischoff spent all of his WWE tenure as a heel or tweener and yet was town; the Dudleyz spent plenty of time as both faces and heels and yet at least D'Von was a SK.

@VPB, Kise speculation of a SK-team. Seems at least plausible to me since he's not just listed as a serial killer but as a "

Dudley Boyz

Compulsive Table Serial Killer".

@Vezo, and I want a statue of Chester A. Arthur made out of candy canes; guess who is more likely to get what they want of the two of us.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@VPB, I won't put words in Kise's mouth about how exactly he envisions this SK-team working but I will agree that for someone proposing such a hypothesis it seems strange that he doesn't then look for his partner.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Post.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sotty/Zach, I've never had scum fake claim results on me on day two (or on any day I think) conversely I have had town claim fake or wrong results on me on day two. I think it's a far too risky move for any scum to pull and thus it would've been dumb to vote Vezo and try and get him lynched when he was and is likely town just with busted or partial (coupled with bad assumptions) results. Frankly, I figured there was a redirect or a busdriver in play there and was waiting to see if someone would clear up the confusion when Vezo started yelling about hometowns and I saw what the problem was.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

post.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

post.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

post.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

NC is town; Kise is town; VPB is town; KK is town

I can’t read IS because I don’t know how much of everything he does is meta, but despite the fact that I think it’s a town originated wagon I don’t really care for it.

I also tend to think EA is town, he's getting emotional and annoyed at his wagon and IS; I think those are far more natural reactions from town than from scum.

SB’s 1414 response to KK is completely incoherent and I can make heads or tails of it.

Empking is scum; Gman is still scum; Baby Spice went into hardcore lurk mode after day one and is probably scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sotty/Zach; I laid out my thought process on Vezo briefly in 1400 what part of that is wrong? You keep blithely asserting I should've behaved a certain way when it cuts against both my experience and basic intuition so please show me exactly where my thought process was flawed.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VPB, I think the best policy is that which you applied to me; if Kise thinks it's smart to claim something then he should if he doesn't think it's smart than we should drop the topic and move on finding scum.

Gobots' big list is scarily close to mine; get out of my head!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Yeah you're right VPB I misread it the same way that VV did and you're right I think without that point it falls from being the best lurker case to just another lurker case. And why jedi/furc over BS/Empking?

Preview Edit: Ironic that Sotty/Zach then chooses this moment to jump on the GMan wagon.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Third Base!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Hoppster; let's make the not unreasonable assumption that there'll be no wagon/lynch of jediknight today. So, how about you join the rest of us in doing something productive.

I would say the same thing to VPB, but if I change my mind of GMan then furcolow is probably where my vote is moving to so I want him to keep that viable.

Baby Spice's last post might be worse than her not posting at all; completely random reads and a dangling thought at the end with no explanation.

No Access Friday | Limited Access Saturday/Sunday

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Vezo, there's not much to say about it; lately he thinks I have too many town reads and not enough scum reads but I think that is a mistake in his thinking; I know several players who scumhunt by finding town tells and the using POE and I certainly do that if I have a fair amount of town reads like I do in this game.

@VPB, He went from lurker obv-scum to lurker. to a lurker who doesn't really having any worthwhile contributions to the game. You taking apart that point moved him from the most likely to be scum in my book down to still a good bet to be scum.

@VPB, I look at his ISO and see #22 which I have a hard time reconciling with scum play; but right around that he's fishing pretty heavily. I'm not sure how to classify the jason mistake or the SZ buddying. He's a pretty null to scum read, but it's mostly of a fuzzy nature.

@furc, I don't think you're very good but I know you know how to try to play the game; so far you've not chosen to try even with taken out of your normal "style".

Be back late Sunday

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Hoppster, it’s both ISO posts #22 and #23; maybe it’s just a playstyle thing but I never want votes as scum period; as town I’m pretty well arrogant enough to believe I can shuck them no problem because I’ve got the truth on my side.

@VV, I think VPB is pretty solidly town. He started the game organizing the RR and I think he knew it would cost him, but it would benefit the town by getting someone like me the title (I’d suggest he worked specifically to get me the title, but that’s probably a biased reading). The fact that he’s giving me grief right now is actually a positive thing; I think he knows that he’s beaten me as scum before when he plays nice with me and I’ll give him a wide berth in such cases; so the fact that he’s willing to get on me makes me think he’s town and trying to make sure his read on me is accurate. In retrospect, I don’t care for the Kise vote, but I think it’s a case of where he missed the forest for the trees.

Post?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@furc, Congrats on having three town reads; that doesn’t excuse your lack of participation in the game. And yes, Empking is certainly amongst the scummy in the book; but just because you can point at another player and say he’s scummy doesn’t absolve you.

@VPB, Don’t you think if I had a distinct number one right now I’d be pushing them? I had a lead I liked in GMan; parts of it fell apart and he fell back from a distinct number one to part of the pack with BS, Empking, and furc but he was the only credible wagon at that point so it didn’t make sense to bail on it.

@Empking, Any reason you chose to bring up the two year old Carnival Mafia, but completely failed to mention Open 276 – Friends and Enemies which just happened to end within the last month or so?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

IS, look at the two kills we've had so far they both were flavor associated with the characters in question.

@GMan,

what sort of flavor should we be looking for in regards to your kill if you aren't around to claim it for whatever reason?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unvote

Pepsi Plunge: Empking

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The potential night-WIFOM argument is just junk there are so many possible permutations that do give some sort of answer that such an argument is no grounds to push for GMan's lynch. I'm def. most happy pushing an Empking wagon right now and KK's argument doesn't really convince me at all that bristep shouldn't be right behind him on my list.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We should probably get height/weight/hometown claims from GMan and jedi as well just to make so there's no dispute on the matter later if Vezo or any other player can verify those facts for us. So we don't have a situation like... Vezo, "Jedi is 6'3" that means he's not Foley because Foley is 6'2"" Jedi, "Well my PM says 6'3" so I don't know what to tell you."

On that same topic my wrestler's weight is both right and wrong; I'm sure one way or another I'll end up pointing back to this whether it be due to another dumb claim on me or just to solidify things in a massclaim scenario.

Jedi's claim does match his attitude in his ISO posts #22 and 23.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I know this is crazy; but it's kind of hard for you [SZ] to lynch IS or anyone else without having your vote on them. Seriously, it's a game of momentum and you don't get momentum for a lynch by sitting around and going, I'd lynch X, Y, and Z all the while leaving your vote on G; you get momentum by moving your vote and creating a viable wagon.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Baltar, considering I was the one who prompted you on day one on the same question you know I'm exceedingly leary of them and they're done absolutely nothing to dissuade me of the notion that I should be. Remember, they also pulled this gunshy nonsense yesterday putzing around on a Snake wagon by themselves when wagons were reaching critical mass.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

JK, I see you browsing this forum, I want height/weight/hometown claimed at a minimum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Seriously, the idea of a scum-vig is completely nonsensical given that the scum team almost certainly has a kill they control as a team. Hence it would be extraordinarily redundant to give them a vig as well. I've never seen it before, never heard of it before and basically the only point of it that I can see would be to screw over a town role cop.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

On the most literal level EA is correct that Empking only once directly called for me to name claim. However, his argument is pedantic and overly literal when you consider that Empking repeatedly called me scum for my refusal to name claim and thus wanted me to name claim but was simply unable to get the support to pressure me into doing so after my wagon disintegrated.

Second, EA’s bussing argument only focuses on one-way of interaction and completely ignores my actions in regards to Empking. Mostly that when the jediknight wagon fell apart I easily could’ve boosted the larger bristep wagon or started an easy furcolow wagon that I’d already verbally backed but instead chose to start an Empking wagon. Is theoretical bussing possible? Sure, I guess. But if you really think I would’ve handed the town my roleblocker as scum when I had a bevy of options then you don’t know me so well.

Continuing attempts to get me to name claim are stupid given both that EA himself told hypothetical scum-me who not to claim and given that the facts I’ve already put on the board confirm I’m not 1-2-3 Kid as far as Wikipedia suggests.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Oh and jediknight, I saw you in the users list for this forum within the last few minutes. Don't be scared homie, get in here and claim your night action.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I almost wish I was Empking's scum partner now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Furc, I already explained why heel hunting was a bad idea yesterday and it remains a bad idea today. Bishoff spent his entire WWE run as a heel, a tweener at best and flipped town; completely disproving your theory.

@JK, as previously discussed I had nothing to do with where the IC and tag belts started or where they got moved to.

@VPB, you’re rapidly throwing away your town credit that you have with me.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@EA, maybe my brushoffs are too subtle for you. If that's the case, then I'll say it loud and clear, I am not the 1-2-3 Kid; there are statements in this thread about my role that back that fact up; I have no interest in bringing those statements to the forefront; if you want to waste your time digging for them feel free but a better use of your time would be trying to find scum.

~~~

@JK, I believe the first night they were randomly assigned by the mod so I think that's why Bella/Empking had the belt.

Also can you please tell us who you blocked last night and I also want to know what it says about your kill flavor for Cactus Jack.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That seemed to be the implication since he said that VPB voted him four times yesterday.

And personally I'd like to know the claim since I think we're missing some kills and whoever was blocked would be a prime candidate for scum who had a kill blocked but I can see your perspective as well JK.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Speaking of that idea; we had one kill from a serial killer on night one. Which means we're missing at least one kill and more than likely a second. Empking flipped roleblocker and he was all up in IS' jock on day two. What are the odds that the reason Empking planted himself there was because he blocked IS and assumed that a missing kill was attributed to IS. I know I've ignored or rationalized a fair amount of the scummy stuff IS has done due to thinking most of it was just playstyle but what if it was just because IS is scum. Thoughts?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That's true, I had forgotten about that and if there is a second scum team and if they're symmetrical than they'd have a roleblocker as well which along with any number of things could account for another stopped kill.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@AV, I think it’s certainly possible that Empking pegged IS as scum and IS will OMGUS/vote/lynch anyone who thinks he might be scum. And don’t be obtuse there are plenty of reasons where scum-IS could ask to be night-killed (which he’s now denying doing) knowing that he wouldn’t be killed but it could secure him town cred to make it seem like he was willing to take a bullet for the greater good.

@IS, You know it’s funny when you whine about my alleged paranoia when I’ve been one of the few people willing to gloss over your behavior.

Also we should clearly be getting JK to the vig level since that ability is most readily verifiable and most useful since kills gives flips and thus straight information.

Back Body Drop: Jediknight

Unvote

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Stinger Splash: jediknight

Unvote

Nero Cain appears to be on V/LA according to the mod's first post today and I don't think we ever heard back from Kise after he went V/LA yesterday.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

To address the setup speculation I’m pretty confident that we’re dealing with two scum teams and still possibly another serial killer. Every kill and claim so far has been flavor associated with the wrestler as far as we can tell; but none of the members of the MDC or the Dudleyz are known for sledgehammer use. But when I hear sledgehammer I think of one wrestler… Triple H and he easily could be part of another scum team (actually three semi-distinct possibilities). I am curious why both VV and KK decided Evolution was the likely team and not D-Generation X or if we’re getting meta, The Kliq.

Since I believe jediknight’s claim I think the town has enough potential killing roles (between Jason and Jedi) along with all the other kills that GMan’s claim was bullshit.

Burning Hammer: GMan

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Primate, while you might be quick to dismiss it the fact that we have another claimed (partial) vig does stand out to me. I also don't think your "dumb enough to claim vig" point is sound either because he didn't claim just a vig, but a one-shot vig which means he only has to show a single kill (or blocked kill) instead of being forced to constantly explain his continued presence and lack of kills in the game.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Primate, I'd be even more skeptical of the claim than I am but I'm not seeing your larger point.

@BS, If furc was a hider he would've been hiding behind someone and thus anyone targeting him wouldn't logically actually be able to target him. Since furc expected to be targeted and claimed not to be he clearly not a hider in the conventional sense and your entire point is moot.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Look Furc, if you think it helps town to claim then claim; but if you want to keep your role secret then it's probably best to drop the breadcrumb references and the guessing games.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I didn't know "highly succesful scumhunter" and "will hammer anyone who gets to L-1" were the same thing; I still have so much to learn.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Primate, that logic is so busted on so many levels mostly because it's applicable to any PR claim. If you claim doc, the real doc is likely not going to care for your claim and counterclaim or try to get you killed/lynched anyways. However, vanilla claims are almost always lynched, so if you have any shot at staying alive scum should claim a PR. From a scum perspective GMan's claim might: draw a counterclaim from the real vig letting scum block/kill them; there might not even be another vig which makes GMan safe at night, if there is a vig maybe they do think another limited vig might fit into the game and not kill them. There are simply way too many outs for such a claim to stay that it categorically is something scum would not do.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Primate; it just seems like your theory is predicated upon the idea that scum can't or won't make bad false claims when they're prone to making mistakes just like anyone else. It also assumes a lot like that they don't have NK protection or maybe they simply feel like the reward is worth the risk which would make it a good claim in the eyes of scum. It's simply not a good enough theory to make me believe GMan is town.

KK, it might be relevant later on but probably not now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If it was any other player than VPB I'd probably be on him like white on rice but I've been reading him as too solidly town to follow that particular lead.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

JK, it's called a town read and I'm not the sort of craven coward to toss that aside on the basis of results of partial relevancy. If it’d confirmed a scum read or indicted a null read then it would be something to act upon but I can't/won't place something like this ahead of my own reads. I certainly will be keeping an even closer eye on VPB than I was before though.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'd assume the fact that neither of your votes will count since they were votes and not wrestling moves.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Disagree, I'd rather keep scum guessing about whether they need to kill or block Jedi or not. If they know where the kill is going then they're in a stronger position than they would be if they don't know where the kill is going.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Nero Cain apparently thinks Mafia 126 and 129 are more important than this game. Baby Spice on the other hand seems to think Metropolis is more important than this game.

Pro-Tip: When you make a post in another game it often appears in the Last Post box on the main page of the forums and it makes it super obvious that you're avoiding this game.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Primate, the problem I have with your theory is just that it rests too much on the idea that's there's a sub-significant chance of scum making a claim mistake when that's usually one of the weakest spots I've found for scum. Once you add on the possible cases where it's actually considered a good play you're well outside the "scum would never do this" range of probability.

Do we have anyone who speaks fluent idiot and can translate this latest NC, CK, BS exchange for me?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

To jump back a little bit, NC and BS point on CK is just a complete miss from my perspective given that I know I don't often bother to use modifiers like "I believe" or "likely" in all circumstances. Conversely, while I'm happy not to have to deal with chesskid, it did bother me slightly that he seemed to go missing from the game there for an extended period.

If it wasn't obvious from me sitting on the wagon; I think GMan's behavior and the weird activity of the wagon suggests we're going to get another scum flip real soon.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I think so; because sotty/zach shouldn't have known chesskid had the belt because after they passed to vezo they wouldn't have been informed to whom the belt was randomized. The fact that they knew chesskid had the belt before he claimed that fact means that they handed chesskid the belt and thus lied about handing it to vezo. At least that's how I'm reading it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

No, Locke said they find out who a belt is randomized to if an action is not submitted; hence how bristep knew where his belt went. If you give the belt to someone who dies however the original person is not told which is how we caught them in this lie. Sotty/Zach is now claiming to have not submitted an action and thus it was randomly given to CK and thus they were informed. Either way they chose to give it to CK or it was randomized to CK after a no submit it doesn't justify the big problem....

You don't lie especially not "to spare yourself embarresment", that's Mafia 101 shit right there.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

My best guess (as I believe someone else guessed) is that the Dudleyz were each assigned a night to kill with Bubba Ray being the odd night killer and D-Von being the even night killer and that would explain the lack of kill last night from them last night.

@AV 2226, it was also the name of Billy Gunn's neckbreaker so it could be either of them but either way it's clearly the D-X kill.

You all also forgetting that jediknight also claimed his kill flavor was hitting someone with a barbwire 2x4.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

barbwire 2 by 4
vs.
barbwire bat

Superplex: jediknight

Unvote

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

As inevitable as the sotty/zach lynch is going to be (and rightfully so) we still need to take care of forcing jediknight up to alleged vig level of moves before we do that. Don't know what to make of the chesskid issue other than it seems really dumb to miss a deadline like that but I have a hard time seeing scum motive there.

Ole Kick: jediknight

Unvote

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sky High Guillotine Legdrop: jediknight

I’m a bit surprised that Kise wasn’t even more in furcolow’s grill after that claim.

Setup speculation of the bear hug sort seems to be going nowhere to my eye.

What a useful post there, sotty/zach.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@IS, maybe the reason I haven't voted is to deny you the hammer that you so desperately want. I don't care whether it's role related, vanity, or just some personal quirk; if you want it, I don't want you to have it.

I tend to believe EA since there's absolutely no imperative to claim there given that Sotty/Zach are going to die today.

I pretty much expect either furc or Kise to flip scum at this point, probably furc but not sure.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

No.

Brainbuster: sottyrulez

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

AV's logic is bad on multiple levels but mostly because scum certainly could have a tracking ability or from an outside perspective they're two scum on the same team and using this create a credible fake claim for EA. Since there's a significant chance that he's not town he should not be a candidate for the belt. Jediknight is a better choice and I wouldn't be completely annoyed if he was given the belt but given that I'm confirmed town there's no reason the belt should leave my waist.

Support: Debonair Danny DiPietro

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm billed from Minneapolis, MN; number of people in the Dudleyz, MDC, or DX besides the now dead 1-2-3 Kid/X-Pac from Minneapolis, MN: 0

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Not really, it makes sense for me to hold the belt given the information that I have. JK wouldn't be a bad choice but given I'm confirmed town you know I'm not lying when I say that I believe I'm a better choice. I know you don't care for me IS, but there's no reason to be stupid about it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You're right IS, it is pretty obvious that I am more useful given that I'm town, have all the needed information to make that assesment, am claiming that fact and have no incentive to lie. Thanks for proving my point.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You know IS I'm strangely impressed after all this time because I still can't figure out if you're really as brain dead as you seem or if you're working a gimmick and if it is the case that you're working a gimmick what the purpose of it is.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

IS can yell and whine all he likes but the facts remain that I'm town and am the only one with as complete knowledge as is available to make the call as to who should have the belt. If I thought it would be best for JK to have the belt, I would hand it over in a heartbeat but I don't think that's the case. Trust me.

Everyone else needs to slow down as well, sure we'll probably lynch Lowell today but we need to settle the belt situation first and then we need to decide to what level we're powering jediknight and only then should we be lynching.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Thank goodness you're here IS, the air is so thin up here on my White Horse that I blanked out and completely forgot that someone might try to kill JK; what was I thinking? Oh wait, I'm not retarded so I already I considered that and still believe I should have the belt. Thanks for the concern though, sport.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Considering I don't even have half the votes I need to retain the title I'm thinking you're being a little overdramatic there.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Wait, what. You yelled stop so you could post

that

trash post?

1) EA is a definitive third choice behind myself and JK in regards to who gets the belt.
2) We did cover the whole DDD is from Minneapolis and thus can't be part of any scumteam, yes?
3) Luckily your German Suplex thing should only count for one move because we should be discussing whether JK should be set to roleblocker, doc, or vig and not just stupidly assuming vig is the best choice.

Jesus, that post was dumb.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Gobots, TOWN tracker would be worth considering but there's absolutely no confirmation of his claim yet and it also ignores the possibility of a scum tracker making him certainly fall behind jediknight. Further given that I am confirmed town he falls behind me as well.

And it's not for you to unilaterally decide what's best for the town; given me-town or confirmation of EA being a town-tracker a doc protect on either of us would be extremely valuable, possibly more so than a vig.

You're welcome for the insult but you earned that one chief.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@jedi, it's not just the hometown cop claim on me but my play as well seriously go look at it; I've been on fucking fire this entire game. But you, not IS, raise a somewhat decent point that Minneapolis might not enough to clear me with framers and what not in play. So I'll tell you what, I'll trade a name claim which should clear me and is backed by three different crumbs including one that I think is relatively bulletproof for your support for me keeping the big gold belt.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

IS, it's hard for me to imagine me caring less about your opinion given that it's clearly motivated by personal contempt for my playstyle rather than any actual faults in my play.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That's not a good point at all; by that same token why didn't IS claim the tag title situation after you asked? It's mind boggling that you think that's a good argument since there's absolutely no scum benefit to me not claiming the belts.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Gobots, I'm waiting for a flip or a Lowell confirm before I trust it.

@VV, why didn't anyone tell me that jedi was a JOAT, that changes everything... wait, I already knew that and still have taken the stance I have. And I'm willing to trade the name claim because people want to scare themselves into not trusting me so I'm trying to assauge those fears so they know that I'm acting in good faith.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I love the parts where IS describes me as NK bait because deep down he knows I'm super obvious and competent town and will eat a NK without the belt or doc protection but he can't get over his petulent dislike of me to use that instinct. I also like the part where tries to speak for the entire town when maybe one person agrees with him. Tonight is almost certainly going to be an amusing night no matter how the day goes down.

God I wish VPB were still alive.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Nah that's just most of it; the rest is lynching scum and the last bit is annoying you.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I changed my mind on my drive home when I had more time to think about it, jedi should have the belt.

Support: jediknight

Kankuu Tornado: jediknight

Standing Corkscrew Shooting Star Press: jediknight

Roundhouse Kick: jediknight

Half-Nelson Bulldog: jediknight

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The town thing to do would be to vote Lowell instead you seem obsessed about being the hammer thereby stalling the game considerably because not only is your vote not on Lowell but no one wants to cast the L-1 vote. You being the hammer seems to be more important than you lynching scum which is backwards priorities for town.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

EA's logic about being able to kill basically everyone is mostly sound but I'm not sure why we need a massclaim to implement it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

How about you set it up yourself you lazy clown.

Cross-Legged Knee Breaker: jediknight

Indian Deathlock: jediknight

Stalling Vertical Suplex: jediknight

German Suplex: jediknight

Dragon Suplex: jediknight

Tiger Suplex: jediknight

~~

EA, I just don't expect that we're going to get any more cleared players through a mass claim and thus am pretty ambivalent towards it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unvote

Yeah, I'm sure that was the reason given he had 16 moves on him already.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So what's the hesitation to voting AV, IS? Don't think that no one notices that you two have been working together and cooperating all game. Its surely going to look bad for you when AV flips scum.

Look, I can sound crazy as well.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

F5: AurorusVox