Trying to set up future mislynches if Llama flips town is the most obvious one that comes to mind. I don't really want to go too far down this road, since I don't think Llama is town, but he people you've been attacking, especially DLG, seem pretty obvtown no matter what Llama's alignment is, and if you were town I'd expect you to see that. The fact that you don't is odd.Fishythefish wrote:@Yos: give me one action I've made that has scum motivation if Llama is town.
"After Fate dies tonight?" Why, are you planning on killing him? That seems an oddly certain statemnt about what is going to come tonight; I think Fate is town, but I'd be very suprised if he were to be killed tonight.I think you know Llama is town, and after Fate dies tonight you want to go after me.
Lol. "Manufactured evidence"?Well, if you're going to reposition from Llama/Fishy to Fishy before your mislynch has even flipped, you're damn well going to back it up with some manufactured evidence.
That's not what chainsaw defense is. Chainsaw defense isn't attacking "awful votes", it's attacking people who are voting for person A just in order to protect person A, generally in order to keep a scumbuddy alive. And I don't think you have been attacking "aweful votes"; you haven't really seemed to even care WHO on the Llama wagon you attack at all, just so long as you're undermining the wagon.Chainsaw defence is exactly what I've been doing. I see a wagon with awful votes. I attack those votes.
Probably. Yos wagon is already fine though, and as I said you clowns won't be able to lynch Yos when I'm dead.bobsnox wrote:wooooowwww
can we PLEASE lynch Darla? This is ridiculous.
Fate - Darla today please?
Sure, you had said you suspected them both. The thing that looks suspicious is that after focusing on DLG for much of day 1 and then the start of day 2, you suddenly changed to BB, and from the timing it looks like you did it because you were being attacked for going after DLG. The reason you gave for the change ("DLG answered my questions and BB didn't") seems pretty thin, since the main reason you were going after DLG was that you didn't like the way he answered your questions. I think it's more likely that you changed tack because you realized it would be hard to mislynch DLG, and because you realized that continuing to try might get you lynched.Fishythefish wrote: - That my vote for Bub was totally unmotivated. It's all there for anyone who actually read me; when I first attacked the wagon on Llama, DLG and BB were the people I found worst, and about equally so. DLG argued with me a lot, whereas BB didn't respond. When I took a step back, BB's reaction was way scummier.
In the unlikely case that Llama flips town, then yes, you would be in a better place to go after the people you are attacking for voting Llama, and obviously so. You asked what your scum motivation would be for your actions if Llama is town, and it's obvious; if Llama is town, and you position yourself before his lynch as a defender of him and as someone who is attacking certain pro-town people voting for Llama, that both gives you credibility later and makes it easier to lynch them.- That setting up future mislynches is a plausible reason to be defending Llama. Is hypoFishyscum really in a better position than when I started going at the people on the Llama wagon yesterday? More to the point, was he ever going to be?
I can't imagine Fate is going to be killed. Assuming Fate is town, which he probably is, I'm sure the scum are going to leave him alive, because he's obviously going to keep tunneling me for no good reason for the all game here, and it's a huge distraction to the town. At the very least, they're going to leave him alive for 3 or 4 days until they manage to use him to get a Yos mislynch through, and then they'll probably try to lynch him for it.- That it's more likely I plan to NK Fate (think howidioticthat would be), and let that slip, than that I believe the Fate is going to be killed - which is 100% obvious from what I believe about the game.
I do think it's unlikely you're simply convinced town, although obviously that becomes someone more probable if Llama flips town. Even if Llama is town, though, I still don't see town-Fishy completly giving up on real scumhunting for two days just in order to attack a series of fairly obvtown people because they suspect Llama.- Just generally, that it's unlikely I'm simply convinced town - particularly if Llama is town.
I never said that at all. Trying to save your own skin is obviously a null tell. On the other hand, pro-town people shouldn't use their vote as a club to try to save their own skin; they should defend themselves to the best of their ability, but they should also keep scumhunting and keep trying to find scum with their vote. Only scum should OMGUS and try to use their vote as a tool to get people off their wagon.- Saving your own skin at deadline is a scumtell.
When you voted Whiskey, two days before deadline, you had a choice. You could either have lynched Whiskey, who you were SURE was town and had been defending all day, or you still could have gotten a Llama lynch through. Either lynch was still probable at that point. Sure, it was close to deadline, but I don't get why you made that choice.By the way, from Yos's last post:
- "The flip you made on whiskey after defending him all day, in a situation where we could have lynched Llama instead," - what does this mean?
Ok, that's probably a good idea. This probably deserves it's own post, so I'll start putting together a detailed case against Ender/Llama now.@Yos: a lot has been said about Llama, and a lot responded to. I think it would be helpful if you could get in one place all the reasons you find him scummy. Reading you, it's fairly unclear to me what is just you arguing with Llama and what you actually find scummy.
His whole behavior on the early Fires wagon really looks like scum who wanted to lynch a town power role, but also was very worried about how he looked, and was very willing to give in to pressure in general.ender241 wrote:VOTE: Finalfires
Happy now?
which is just a bizzare post. He keeps trying to do this self sacrificing theme "Oh, it's ok, if I have to die in order to lynch Darla, that's ok", and it dosn't make sense; he's not even voting Darla at this point, he had just been defending her, and in his next post he says he "dosn't have a reason to vote Darla.". All I can think about this melodrama is that it's an act by a scum to try to look more town, it doesn't make sense otherwise.ender241 wrote:I think if everyone thinks Darla is scum that it would be a wise choice to kill her, if i have to be killed for a scum to be taken out then i am willing for that to happen.
and then, half an hour later:ender241 wrote:Sorry for not posting for a while guys.
At the moment i think it's bobsnox.
And then he never posts again, and is replaced.ender241 wrote:Unless i have to vote him i won't though, i'd prefer VOTE: Finalfires.
This doesn't look like a town person trying to find scum, or a town person trying to put together a defense. It looks like a scum with his back to the wall, trying desperately to find some kind of a handhold with which to launch a counterattack against the townies who have him close to a lynch.Yosarian2 wrote: Basically, Llamable got to 6 votes on post 308, at 6 PM January 29th; the response to this was an absolute flood of posts from him, and in the next 32 hours or so, he made 22 posts, some of them quite long. Now, again, there's nothing wrong with posting a lot; that's not a sign of alignment, either way. A lot of the content of those posts, though, was really iffy, and most of it just feels like wild flailing, mostly directed at the people attacking him. Post 7 included a vague attack at "scum piling on his wagon"; post 8 he attacks Bub; post 9 he attacks FF for voting him; post 10 he attacks DLG for voting him. Post 11 he calls whisky a buddy of Bub. Post 13 he changes his mind and calls FF town again; post 15 he calls me and Fishy buddies of Bub and defends whisky, while post 16 he calls whiskey scum again. Note this is all within a 4 hour period, and right after he gets to lynch -1.
Calls Whiskey scummy.Llamarble wrote: Whiskey looks scummy, but we'll see how things appear once I'm fully caught up. Also I have no idea who I'm voting.Unvote
Calls Whiskey a mislynch, but then IN THE SAME POST says he looks "bad".Llamarble wrote:Vote: Bub Bidderskins
He is tunneling/voteparked on DBE but doesn't like the other members of the wagon on her.
He has lined up Bobsnox or Whiskey lynches for D2 in the event of a Darlatownflip.
I'm not really impressed by his case on DBE.
Yosarian is also kind of scummy looking.
Then again Whisky is also pretty bad.
Demands DLG keeps voting Whiskey.Llama wrote:@DLG: WHY WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO ACCEPT THE LYNCH OF ANY OTHER PLAYER THAN ONE YOU CAUGHT LYING?
Disagrees with Bub's case on Whiskey, but then calls whiskey scum for other reasons. Ends up calling Whiskey scum with Bub.Llama wrote: Huh, I still don't see where Morewhisky is contradiction-lying (please make this clear somebody who thinks he is).
But he has done absolutely pitiful scumhunting, and is bandwagoning like a champ. So he's a likely Bidderbuddy.
That would make sense with Bidderscum's play; Lynch town today, FOS a buddy and a townie for tomorrow.
Calls Whiskey scum again.Llamarble wrote:My reads are getting settled in at this point, so I'll summarize with a list:
Town:
Llama
Jahudo
Bobsnox
Darla
FF
Null:
Broken
DLG
CMAR
Flinter
Somewhat scummy:
Yos
Fishy
Nikanor
Scummy:
Whisky
Scum:
Bidderskins
I'm going to go back and look for the case against Ender now and try to deal with it.
I want responses (Preferably votes in agreement) to my case against Bidderskins.
Demands DLG keeps voting for whiskey, but at the same time says he dosn't agree with the case. Then goes on to add "even if he's scum", again implying that Llama thinks Whiskey is likely scum.Llama wrote: IF YOU BELIEVE A PLAYER IS CAUGHT LYING, ANY OTHER LYNCH IS UNACCEPTABLE.
That said I don't think Whisky's supposed contradiction was anything other than sarcasm even if he's scum.
Then, with his absurd "Bub/Yos are trying to mislynch Darla and then mislynch Whiskey" conspiricy theory, implies that Whiskey is town again.Llama wrote:
His behavior fits with an apparent "lynch Darla then Snox/Whisky" plan shared by a Yosarian/Bub scumteam.
Llama flips and starts defending Whiskey.Whiskey wrote:Llmarble doent deserve this wagon.
Llamarble wrote:I don't think Whiskey is scum either, though I'm in the middle of a post on that.
So, at this point, either Llama is now defending Whiskey since Whiskey is pretty much the only guy still on his side, or else Llama honestly did a re-read and changed his mind on Whiskey being scummy.Llamarble wrote:Whiskey is town, I think.
His ISO makes sense. I looked at his meta and his play as townie in a newbie game isn't dissimilar from his play here.
I think he believes what he's saying and his logic looks like town logic even if I don't agree with him in places.
Why are we lynching him again?
Llamarble wrote:I would vote Whisky to prevent a no-lynch.
He unvote whiskey again after this, but then after Whiskey claims a power role, he has this bizzare post:Llamarble wrote:Okay at this point it looks like Bubscum will have to wait.
VOTE: Morewhisky
Hopefully I'm wrong and he's scum.
Suddenly he's more suspicious of Whiskey, and more willing to lynch him, because Whiskey claimed to be a power role? That doesn't make any sense at all to me. Pro-town people are usually much less willing to lynch a power role. (Note this was before Whiskey's absurd fakeclaim).Llamarble wrote: Scum almost always claim PRs D1 because it sometimes stops them from getting lynched when they would otherwise.
This makes a claimed PR a lot more likely to be scum.
Also FF softclaimed, meaning the odds of randomly hitting a town PR are reduced further.
I may not have access enough to vote in time tomorrow and lynching 40%scum60%PR (normally it'd be more like 60%scum but I dropped the percentage due to my read) is better than lynching 100% VT.
VOTE: MoreWhisky
'Llamarble wrote:@Bub:
Those posts of Fate also pointed out that my line of thought while I was being wagoned D1 was townlike.
Yeah, up until you voted for him and helped to get him lynched.Llamarble wrote:And that I defended the alternative lynch to myself, who turns out to have been town for certain.
I have thicker skin than you think.Llamarble wrote:Your failure to read even the post you quoted takes your play to a level of lousiness you didn't suffer from D1.
Fine, you don't agree with my terminology. But you have to agree with what happend. You were at L-1Llamarble wrote:Your statement about me being more likely to be scum than whisky after his townflip is also awful. When I and others voted whisky, it was out of a belief he was likelier scum than me (at least for town members of that wagon). DUH. Calling this "chickening out" makes NO SENSE.
Okay, so you didn't quote my post, but you didn't read it either, so I think the comment is warrented.Llamarble wrote:Your failure to read even the post you quoted takes your play to a level of lousiness you didn't suffer from D1.
He jumped off because he thought it only took 5 votes to lynch, making it L-1. This would be a really really weird excuse for scum to make up.Yosarian2 wrote: -Ender started out scummy early. First, when FF implied he was a town power role (remember, he was the doctor), Ender jumped on his wagon really early, and then jumped right back off as soon as he realized this would make him look bad.
My assumption is that he didn't immediately revote FF because he simply didn't think to. Then when it was pointed out to him he revoted.-When people asked him about this, and started to get suspicous of him for his odd vote/unvote on Fires, his response was the scummy:
His whole behavior on the early Fires wagon really looks like scum who wanted to lynch a town power role, but also was very worried about how he looked, and was very willing to give in to pressure in general.ender241 wrote:VOTE: Finalfires
Happy now?
Lynch me then lynch X!! is a common enough thing for a newbie to say, though it usually involves a scumread on X. But Ender's wording consistently suggests he believes for some reason that everyone else has decided him being innocent would indicate Darla is scum, so he is willing to die if it will help catch a scum tomorrow.His next few posts were equally odd. First, Ender defends Darla, attacking Whiskey for voting for her. Then a few posts later, he says:
which is just a bizzare post. He keeps trying to do this self sacrificing theme "Oh, it's ok, if I have to die in order to lynch Darla, that's ok", and it dosn't make sense; he's not even voting Darla at this point, he had just been defending her, and in his next post he says he "dosn't have a reason to vote Darla.". All I can think about this melodrama is that it's an act by a scum to try to look more town, it doesn't make sense otherwise.ender241 wrote:I think if everyone thinks Darla is scum that it would be a wise choice to kill her, if i have to be killed for a scum to be taken out then i am willing for that to happen.
Okay, he is suspicious of Bobsnox, then reads some more or something and goes back to his previous suspicions on Final Fires.He then goes quiet for a few days, and when he comes back, he says:
and then, half an hour later:ender241 wrote:Sorry for not posting for a while guys.
At the moment i think it's bobsnox.
And then he never posts again, and is replaced.ender241 wrote:Unless i have to vote him i won't though, i'd prefer VOTE: Finalfires.
Ender was newbtown. He voted a player with an early softclaim, then unvoted thinking it was L-1 and not wanting a premature lynch, then revoted after it was pointed out that this wasn't the case and later that he hadn't put his vote back on yet. He is indeed somewhat illogical and inconsistent, but he believed the things he said.All of Ender's posts really look like newb scum to me. He wants to lynch a town power role, but doesn't want to get in trouble for doing it; he's really inconsistent and illogical in his posts, and he mostly seems to want to try and look town.
Llamarble wrote:I've responded to much of what Yosarian mentioned already, but since he collected his accusations I'll collect my answers to them.
But first I'll take a moment to explain why Bub's latest post continues his D2 pattern of not making any sense.
Bub said "Fate only finds llama town due to his VT claim."
I responded by quoting other reasoning Fate had given.Now Bub is accusing me of hiding behind Fate and not defending myself because I gave examples from Fates posting to prove that Bub had not been reading at all carefully and missed a number of other things Fate pointed out.I have defended myself plenty in other posts which didn't have as their specific purpose proving Bub did not read Fate.
I've already said that I defended Whisky as his wagon was forming because I thought he was town and didn't want to lynch him, then voted him as deadline approached when he became the only alternative to lynching me. If another player who isn't confirmed town is the only alternative lynch to you, you vote them, period.
Accusing me of not reading is ridiculous.
Now onto Yosarian.
So...your theory is that me, as scum, have gone to such great lengths to try to get through a "mislynch" on someone who has consistently been close to a lynch on his own for most of the game, and has at one time or another been suspected by nearly all of the people in the game? That's really what you're going with?Fate wrote:Ill get to yos posts later. He's pretty arrogant to think he can push this mislynch through so brazenly
I've talked about this already so I'll just quote myself.Yosarian2 wrote: Llama:
When he replaced in, he was already in trouble, due to Ender's scummy behavior. He tries quite hard, and quite effectivly, to shake off the wagon on him, but he uses what I consider to be scummy means to do so.
I explained this before, but right after he got to 6 votes against him, he suddenly goes into flailing overdrive. He goes through, and in a series of fairly contradictory posts, attacks pretty much everyone who was voting for him. Rather then repeat myself, let me just repeat my earlier analysis of this series of posts here:
This doesn't look like a town person trying to find scum, or a town person trying to put together a defense. It looks like a scum with his back to the wall, trying desperately to find some kind of a handhold with which to launch a counterattack against the townies who have him close to a lynch.Yosarian2 wrote: Basically, Llamable got to 6 votes on post 308, at 6 PM January 29th; the response to this was an absolute flood of posts from him, and in the next 32 hours or so, he made 22 posts, some of them quite long. Now, again, there's nothing wrong with posting a lot; that's not a sign of alignment, either way. A lot of the content of those posts, though, was really iffy, and most of it just feels like wild flailing, mostly directed at the people attacking him. Post 7 included a vague attack at "scum piling on his wagon"; post 8 he attacks Bub; post 9 he attacks FF for voting him; post 10 he attacks DLG for voting him. Post 11 he calls whisky a buddy of Bub. Post 13 he changes his mind and calls FF town again; post 15 he calls me and Fishy buddies of Bub and defends whisky, while post 16 he calls whiskey scum again. Note this is all within a 4 hour period, and right after he gets to lynch -1.
Llamarble wrote: "Post 7 included a vague attack at scum piling" on my wagon as an aside at the sudden increase in my wagon's size after I started making my case against Bidderskins (and specifically the fact that Bidderskins himself joined). The bulk and main purpose of that post was an explanation of my reads on Darla.
Post 8 I attacked Bub. Yes.
Post 9 I found a recent post of FF's to be weird because he appeared to be dropping alignment knowledge and lining up lynches, so I reread him. Post 13 is the result of that reread, namely that I still found FF to be town.
Post 10 I attack DLG for voting me because he claimed to believe whisky was lying, which should have given whisky way higher lynch priority from townDLG's perspective.
Post 11 I do say Whiskey also looks scummy for bandwagoning and lack of scumhunting.
Post 15 I say I don't think the whisky contradiction-business was actually him lying but rather him being sarcastic but say I still believe whisky is scummy for the reasons I mentioned in 11. I defended the contradiction business because I believed it was simply sarcasm and that the town should be aware of this since several players were basing reads off of it. At that point I thought Fishy was scummy because the way he pointed out Bub attacking the people on his wagon made me feel like he was defending Bub in advance and trying to tell him to be less scummy. And Yos has been on my scumlist since my 5th post.
Post 16 I do include whisky in my scumlist. In agreement with 11 and 15. So the accusation of flipflopping there is simply inaccurate.
Presenting all the things I did without the accompanying reasons makes it sound like I am swinging around wildly. I did indeed analyze a lot of players and discuss a lot of things in a short period of time. Responding to the reasons people are going after me and analyzing players is not the same thing as "attacking anyone who attacks me." My primary scumread, Bub, joined my wagon after I voted him. For some reason Yosarian declares me scum trying to fight out of a corner instead of town doing so. I believe this is because he wanted to mislynch me.
DLG supposedly thought Whisky had said "I think llama and Darla are buddies" and then in his next post had said "llama and Darla? Buddies? I'd never have thought of that." If Whisky had actually meant that second post, he would have totally forgotten what his reads were, which doesn't make sense at all from town who are trying to figure out who the scum are. Therefore I found it extremely strange that DLG was voting me despite believing this behavior from Whisky. But I also stated I believed Whisky to have been simply sarcastic, so you are accusing me of trying to get someone to change their vote while explaining why the reason they should change their vote was bad??? How about I was pointing out DLG's behavior not making sense from a town perspective and explaining why I thought whisky was being sarcastic to clarify things and help the town make a better decision. I think that makes immensely more sense, and it so happens that's what I was actually doing.Yos wrote: He also keeps going back and fourth with this odd "I don't know if whiskey is contradiction lying, but if you think he is, then you MUST NOT VOTE ANYONE BUT HIM" thing with DLG. It looks like he was trying to keep DLG voting for whiskey (instead of him) but at the same time wanted to set himself up as a defender of whiskey. In reality, I don't agree with that at all; if you catch someone lying about they're role, they're pretty much an auto-lynch, but while contradicting yourself can be scummy, it's not anywhere near in the same category. And again, in that few days, he swings back and forth of whisky a bunch of times; sometimes attacking him, sometimes defending him, sometimes doing both at once. For example:
Note "THEN AGAIN" which means I am considering multiple possibilities.I think he was trying to both get whiskey lynched and set it up so he could claim to be a defender of whiskey the next day. Llama denied this later, and Fate is using Llama's so called "defense" of whiskey as the major point in his defense, so let's look at what Llama actually said about Whiskey in some detail here.
Calls Whiskey scummy.Llamarble wrote: Whiskey looks scummy, but we'll see how things appear once I'm fully caught up. Also I have no idea who I'm voting.Unvote
Calls Whiskey a mislynch, but then IN THE SAME POST says he looks "bad".Llamarble wrote:Vote: Bub Bidderskins
He is tunneling/voteparked on DBE but doesn't like the other members of the wagon on her.
He has lined up Bobsnox or Whiskey lynches for D2 in the event of a Darlatownflip.
I'm not really impressed by his case on DBE.
Yosarian is also kind of scummy looking.
Then again Whisky is also pretty bad.
How is that an absurd theory? I thought the scum were setting things up so that snox/whisky would look bad in the event Darlatown got mislynched, with Bub actively pushing said mislynch. Hardly an extremely complicated idea and it makes sense of Bub's accusations toward Darla while attacking the people suspicious of her. And I also thought Whisky could be scum with FOS scumbuddy vote townie going on from Bub and/or Yos.Demands DLG keeps voting Whiskey.Llama wrote:@DLG: WHY WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO ACCEPT THE LYNCH OF ANY OTHER PLAYER THAN ONE YOU CAUGHT LYING?
Disagrees with Bub's case on Whiskey, but then calls whiskey scum for other reasons. Ends up calling Whiskey scum with Bub.Llama wrote: Huh, I still don't see where Morewhisky is contradiction-lying (please make this clear somebody who thinks he is).
But he has done absolutely pitiful scumhunting, and is bandwagoning like a champ. So he's a likely Bidderbuddy.
That would make sense with Bidderscum's play; Lynch town today, FOS a buddy and a townie for tomorrow.
Calls Whiskey scum again.Llamarble wrote:My reads are getting settled in at this point, so I'll summarize with a list:
Town:
Llama
Jahudo
Bobsnox
Darla
FF
Null:
Broken
DLG
CMAR
Flinter
Somewhat scummy:
Yos
Fishy
Nikanor
Scummy:
Whisky
Scum:
Bidderskins
I'm going to go back and look for the case against Ender now and try to deal with it.
I want responses (Preferably votes in agreement) to my case against Bidderskins.
Demands DLG keeps voting for whiskey, but at the same time says he dosn't agree with the case. Then goes on to add "even if he's scum", again implying that Llama thinks Whiskey is likely scum.Llama wrote: IF YOU BELIEVE A PLAYER IS CAUGHT LYING, ANY OTHER LYNCH IS UNACCEPTABLE.
That said I don't think Whisky's supposed contradiction was anything other than sarcasm even if he's scum.
Then, with his absurd "Bub/Yos are trying to mislynch Darla and then mislynch Whiskey" conspiricy theory, implies that Whiskey is town again.Llama wrote:
His behavior fits with an apparent "lynch Darla then Snox/Whisky" plan shared by a Yosarian/Bub scumteam.
Whisky was suddenly looking like a potential lynch for the day, so I reread him more carefully and came out with a townread. I don't see what use defending him has for scum-me considering by doing so I was making myself more likely to be lynched.Then, after Whiskey defended LLama:
Llama flips and starts defending Whiskey.Whiskey wrote:Llmarble doent deserve this wagon.
Llamarble wrote:I don't think Whiskey is scum either, though I'm in the middle of a post on that.So, at this point, either Llama is now defending Whiskey since Whiskey is pretty much the only guy still on his side, or else Llama honestly did a re-read and changed his mind on Whiskey being scummy.Llamarble wrote:Whiskey is town, I think.
His ISO makes sense. I looked at his meta and his play as townie in a newbie game isn't dissimilar from his play here.
I think he believes what he's saying and his logic looks like town logic even if I don't agree with him in places.
Why are we lynching him again?
I think a player who claims a PR is more likely to be scum than one who hasn't, especially D1 with a PRclaim from a probable townie already out there. But I still believed him to be town, and my vote was on whisky in spite of that because he was the sole alternative to lynching me. I would absolutely have preferred to lynch one of my scumreads.But then, only a few hours later, he flips again, and starts setting himself up so he can vote Whiskey if necessary to protect himself.
Llamarble wrote:I would vote Whisky to prevent a no-lynch.He unvote whiskey again after this, but then after Whiskey claims a power role, he has this bizzare post:Llamarble wrote:Okay at this point it looks like Bubscum will have to wait.
VOTE: Morewhisky
Hopefully I'm wrong and he's scum.
Suddenly he's more suspicious of Whiskey, and more willing to lynch him, because Whiskey claimed to be a power role? That doesn't make any sense at all to me. Pro-town people are usually much less willing to lynch a power role. (Note this was before Whiskey's absurd fakeclaim).Llamarble wrote: Scum almost always claim PRs D1 because it sometimes stops them from getting lynched when they would otherwise.
This makes a claimed PR a lot more likely to be scum.
Also FF softclaimed, meaning the odds of randomly hitting a town PR are reduced further.
I may not have access enough to vote in time tomorrow and lynching 40%scum60%PR (normally it'd be more like 60%scum but I dropped the percentage due to my read) is better than lynching 100% VT.
VOTE: MoreWhisky
In my first post D2 I pointed out Bub's accusation that I tried to deflect my wagon onto MW was garbage because I was defending MW, which is the opposite of deflecting your wagon onto them. I found whisky scummy initially and felt him being scum was a strong possibility until I reread him in depth as he became a possible lynch for the day, whereupon my read on him changed to town, where it stayed. I voted him when it became clear that he was the only lynch option other than myself. That's hardly "going back and forth any number of times."Then, in Llama's first post of day 2, tried to use his "defense of whiskey" as a reason why he was town, and I really don't buy that. He went back and fourth on whiskey any number of times in the short period he was playing; he was inconsitant throughout.
What made you think I should be trying to lynch DLG? I think I've raged at him more than anybody else, but whenever I cooled off and analyzed him he never really came up as near the scummiest player since it seemed like he might actually believe his case against me regardless how outrageously bad it seemed. It's true I'd probably still be voting Bub if Fate hadn't arrived, but Fate made me way more confident of my reasons for suspicion of Yos and shook my confidence in Bubscum with his early posting.This post of mine is already absurdly long, so I'm going to wrap it up here, even though there's more I could say. Let me just say that I also think LLama's day 2 posting seems OMGUS-ish, and oppertunistic. Based on his day 1 convictions, he should be trying to lynch Bub; based on his day 2 case, he should be trying to lynch DLG, but instead, he's trying to lynch me. Why? Because that way he can follow Fate, and that way Fate takes the blame when the wagon goes wrong, and because this way it looks like he can actually get a mislynch. Looking at Llama's posts, he spent so much time saying how sure he was that Bub and DLG are scum, but then just drops that as soon as he has the chance to mislynch someone else; I don't buy that at all as coming from town-Llama.
Do you really think that you re-quoting posts of yours that I've already read and responded to are going to change my mind, or anyone else's? I only repeated my points there because Fishy specifically asked me to put all my reasons to suspect you in one post.Llamarble wrote: I've talked about this already so I'll just quote myself.
I still think that's an odd tack for you to take. Why would you think DLG should have been 100% sure about his reading of whiskey's posts, to the point where it'd be insane for him to vote someone else, if at the same time you thought that his reading of whiskey's posts was wrong? If you thought Whiskey was town, why were you trying so hard to get DLG to vote for him? Why were you trying to get DLG to commit to a course of action based on logic you thought was wrong? None of what you did there makes sense from a pro-town perspective.marble wrote: DLG supposedly thought Whisky had said "I think llama and Darla are buddies" and then in his next post had said "llama and Darla? Buddies? I'd never have thought of that." If Whisky had actually meant that second post, he would have totally forgotten what his reads were, which doesn't make sense at all from town who are trying to figure out who the scum are. Therefore I found it extremely strange that DLG was voting me despite believing this behavior from Whisky. But I also stated I believed Whisky to have been simply sarcastic, so you are accusing me of trying to get someone to change their vote while explaining why the reason they should change their vote was bad???
Yes, you were. As I said, you were going back and fourth on the issue for most of the day, usually with such a timing as to make either your defense of whisey or your attacks on him seem tactical.Note "THEN AGAIN" which means I am considering multiple possibilities.
This is the point. For most of the game, you've been going back and fourth between attacking DLG and attacking Bub, especally when the two of them were leading the attack against you. That's really all the "scumhunting" you've done all game. Now, you've suddenly dropped both cases, and are only attacking me. Why?What made you think I should be trying to lynch DLG? I think I've raged at him more than anybody else, but whenever I cooled off and analyzed him he never really came up as near the scummiest player since it seemed like he might actually believe his case against me regardless how outrageously bad it seemed. It's true I'd probably still be voting Bub if Fate hadn't arrived, but Fate made me way more confident of my reasons for suspicion of Yos and shook my confidence in Bubscum with his early posting.
If you're town, you should be trying to change my mind. I'm always willing to change my mind if someone gives a reasonable argument.Llamarble wrote:Of course I don't think I'm going to change your mind scum. You're already all-in to lynch me today.
That's just a bizzare chain of logic. If you thought DLG's case against Whiskey was strong, and didn't understand why he wasn't following it, that's be reasonable. But it seems like you thought it was weak, but thought he should follow it anyway. It dosn't make sense.YOU ARE RIDICULOUSLY TWISTING MY "WHY IS DLG VOTING ME IF HE THINKS WHISKY IS LYING" STUFF.
DLG said he thought Whisky was lying about his reads on my slot/Darla. But he voted me. I thought this was a really weird move from DLG since if he actually believed Whisky was lying it would be extremely strong evidence of whiskyscum, so his stated belief didn't make sense with a non whiskyvote. I also stated I disagreed that Whisky was lying there and believed he was being sarcastic BECAUSE I THOUGHT WHISKY WAS BEING SARCASTIC. So I felt given DLG's assumptions his play didn't make sense but I also disagreed with his assumptions.
Fate didn't actually give any real reasons to find me scummy. He just said YOS IS SCUM and gave you some cover for voting for me yourself.I've never voted DLG. Bub I thought was scum BEFORE he jumped on my wagon. I AM VOTING YOU BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE SCUM. I still think Bub is scummy, and his posting D2 has been AWFUL, but as I've previously explained after Fate arrived and agreed with my reasons for finding you scummy I became way more confident in them.