Square Enix IV (GAME OVER)

[DTMaster]

Day hammer: Fate

Ka-pow! On to the next wagon after tonight. :3

[DTMaster]

It takes 10 votes for a hammer BL, so I see your reason to not pressure wagon Fate to be moot. I also note that you didn't question Fate even though you wanted to add pressure there. Either/or would have been sufficent to pull information from the Fate wagon. Why didn't you question pressure Fate? HMMMZ? You wanted to wagon him.

[DTMaster]

@Prana
Since when is Kiil a kill? The VC isn't out, he could have kiiled you D:

[DTMaster]

You start off using RVS to pressure someone/gain information from the wagon itself. BL

said that she wanted to vote you

she wants to use the wagon, or attack you in the RVS. But she didn't. And mentioned that she's scared of a 10 vote hammer when half the posts on the first page aren't on your wagon.

That's scummy since she said she WANTS TO DO SOMETHING, but DOESN'T DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. /streched argument based on 1 post since its page 2. :p

[DTMaster]

Also, considering YOU WERE AIKAGE that means I'm typing like you.

[DTMaster]

Also BL: I killed off all the Poe Scum in that game ><;;.

[DTMaster]

NO WAI. /avatar debate "is going to regret that now since he'll cause a lot of fateslock noise about the avatar shenanigans"

@MoI
You better have a meta argument to back up your recent claim. What's so interesting about Fate ignoring Vezok (other then I would have preferred the day kill on that man)?

[DTMaster]

I thought you were one of these though :p

[DTMaster]

1. Reckmonic caused town to lose in OoT Mafia and my Boss faction to win. I caused Poe scum to lose killing the last remaining Poe scum. Your vote doesn't match with your reasoning D:. AND IT WAS A RVS VOTE. <cannot compute, must unleash FATE PROGRAM>

2. Jokes aside V.V. I already day hammered Fate so he's dead.

3. You're a nobody as well? D:

[DTMaster]

1-2 BL, 3- Fate

[DTMaster]

If you are petty enough to ignore players based on avatar status rather then post content, I find that you either have:

a. extremely poor sportsmanship
b. giving yourself an excuse to not read posts

B. is the argument that sez: Icerint is scummy man, very scummy. Are you a big fat B?

[DTMaster]

@Ice
Except I've played with you multiple times before. You should already have a sense of both my town and my scum games, and there shouldn't be any learning needed. I find that to be a weak reason with our history.

You shouldn't be learning my meta, you should be applying what you know and see if it fits with my normal scum/town play by now or using it a loose outline of what you'd expect from me.

"eyes Iceerint"

@MoI
I see. here are the rants man:

NO NEED.

DONT POST

VEZOK-NO ACTION
VEZOK-TARETS OBVIOUS KILL TARGET
VEZOK-FUCKING MORON
VEZOK-FUCKING MORON
VEZOK-FUCKING DOESNT REALIZE AGM WILL BE FRAMED OVER JAHUNDO IN LYLO MORON

NO.

I DONT WANT TO SEE IT GODDAMMIT.

JUST POST THE SCUM QT AND GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY LIFE VEZOK.

YOU WERE SCUM RIGHT?

YEAH.

ISNT IT FITTING A GAME WITH A SEXY AWESOME PLAYER LIST WAS LOST BY THE PERSON WE SHOULDA POLICY LYNCHED D1?

YEAH BUT I DDIDNT LYNCH VEZOK. I TRUSTED HIM TO USE HIS "SUPAH AWESOME ROLEZ" TO CLEAR HIMSELF.

FUCK.
THAT NOISE.

I'd say both players could be linked in some way, and I'd totally look in that direction for stuffz.

[DTMaster]

Not Fate: Almaster's post but general sentiment about the game.

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK VEZOK.

FUCKING SERIOUSLY.

Normally I'd be like, "oooh I made the wrong decision in lylo, silly me," BUT NO, NOT THIS TIME. VEZOK, IF YOU HAD JUST USED YOUR MOTHERFUCKING ABILITY YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED TOWN AND NOT OBVSCUM. THX.

GOD.

THIS GAME.

Good job scum.

[DTMaster]

@Kise

Dayhammered:

Fate- GAH, I DID IT AGAIN

Lulz. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to be lynchproof Fate. /sarcasm

@rewq
Is your first post after your RV

seriously a comment on my lack of avatarness?

. Are you seriously just posting for the sake of posting now because this post translated into english is:

"noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise"

I find your priorities to be lacking based on the huge Fate/Vezok dynamic that MoI meta argued about, the Prana attacks, AND my attacks on ice. And you simply don't have a comment to the current arguments in the game? Wow. Way to advance the cause man. Shoot this man ASAP so we don't need to listen to noise.

Also, if you associate players by avatar

I'm currently the only player with out an avatar in this game so yeah, you should have the ability to associate the lack of avatar to the player: ME

. So your point is simply an excuse full of airy noise.

@Ice
Wow are you for real Ice? You simply ignore this post

@Ice
Except I've played with you multiple times before. You should already have a sense of both my town and my scum games, and there shouldn't be any learning needed. I find that to be a weak reason with our history.

You shouldn't be learning my meta, you should be applying what you know and see if it fits with my normal scum/town play by now or using it a loose outline of what you'd expect from me.

"eyes Iceerint"

AND IGNORED THE PRANA CASE by saying his avatar influences you. I. Call. B.S. You are more intelligent then that. You're simply playing dumb now. And playing dumb for the sake of playing dumb is quite scummy.

I will list: Disgaea Mafia 1, Linked Role Mafia Part 2 and Part 1, Square Enix Mafia 1, Disgaea Mafia 2, and Reboot Mafia. All of these are games we were in together. None of them were games where the avatar influences you. All of these games gives you the ability to attack me/judge me/defend me/ make a read on me.

None of these avatar shenanigans, all hard earn time and blood spent in these games. Ice should be shot as well.

Break time, will comment on the Prana case after

[DTMaster]

@MoI - Dun dun dun! Spotlight time!
1.

Hmmm ... Fate so casually ignores a budding Vezok wagon ....

Interesting ...

Fate’s was Fate.

What do we have here, do I see some back tracking? Oh yes, how can Fate be Fate when the whole meta argument was

Fate is behaving abnormally

. Bringing this point up and dropping it is quote sloppy. Honestly if you did care about this, I would expect you to attack Fate/Vezok link theory while you were making the Prana case. If you place the condition that if either player (specifically Vezok) flips scum we should look closer to the other, I agree that this link is possible. I disagree that you should drop it. There's this thing called: attacking multiple people. You know, what I do.

2. I wouldn't consider 4 votes a wagon. Fate and Ice together aren't quad voters pulling out all the stops man. I find it odd that you

focus on Prana who attacked you

rather then look at the Fate wagon likewise.

For the other votes:

RBT I agree with.

Fate I disagree with because of above. How can you both argue Fate is acting like Fate when your meta argument is a point that goes AGAINST THAT.

Ice voting in self preservation is a scum argument against him actually. If you didn't take the convo with Fate and Ice as a joke, Ice is heavily buddying with Fate with a plea bargain to vote. Why would a town player WANT/NEED TO BARGAIN to STAY SAFE. Screw that. If Fate is attacking me IF he THINKS I'M SCUM, then I have nothing to fear other then he's WRONG and my GAMEPLAY will AUTOMATICALLY SHOW THIS. So this is a point AGAINST ICE. Not FOR ICE.

Prana himself didn't OUTLINE A REASON. That I agree. Your OVERALL CASE IS FULL OF HOLES MAN. HOLES THAT SEZ YOU ARE STRETCHING THINGS LULZ. This is 3 pages in and you're already attacking people on this "4 man wagon" who so happens to be on you. Lulz. I expect a rebuttal soon but I like this MoI pressure.

So many "gooood" people to vote for, and only "one vote".

Subtly of the Ice argument actually links MoI to Ice FYI.

Vote MoI

. 5 man wagon woot woot.

[DTMaster]

I really, really, really want BL to form more detailed opinions.

BL: What do you see in MoI's argument on Fate? Do you agree with MoI's assessment on Prana? Do you have other reasons outside of MoI to vote Prana baring the last question?

@Ice
1. How am I actively disrupting your reads given our history? Unconscious association between players and avatar is somewhat true, in that you do put a name to a picture. However, this shouldn't ever, ever, ever affect your read on the player in the game because you're basing it on my posts. If I changed my avatar every day, then you'd pull the same stunt of me because you shouldn't be able to associate a picture to a name. But this only affects on who you recognize initially (i.e. If you see a particular avatar you don't need to read my name to figure out it's me).

My Username is on the left. Use the extra 3 seconds to read my name.

2. You ignored my CASE ON YOU not my CASE ON PRANA. That's MoI's domain, not mine.

3. I use Avatar's as an Identifier, not as an indicator of tone in a post.

4. As well, if you're focused on this avatar "issue", then that's on you: Mister I rather argue that DTM doesn't have a picture on him rather then scum hunt. Mr McScumscum.

[DTMaster]

You know I was originally attempting to find a new avatar after avatar soft claiming in Objection mafia, but I think I'll keep it blank this game. It's pulling lots of information from players and their priorities "cough Ice and rewq". Scum generating noise for the sake of noise? Possible.

---

Vote Count:

MagnaofIllusion: 5

(Riceballtail, Iecerint, Fate, PranaDevil, DTMaster)

Fate: 3

(Dutch one, rewq455, bv310)

PranaDevil: 3

(MagnaofIllusion, Nero Cain, BunnyLover)

vezokpiraka: 1

(KDub)

Dutch one: 1

(Chronopie)

KDub: 1

(Midnight's Sorrow)

Midnight's Sorrow: 1

(Reckamonic)

Starbuck: 1

(Zodiark13)

Not Voting:

Starbuck
vezokpiraka

Lynch:

10 votes.

Deadline:

February 8th - 7:00 AM EST

[DTMaster]

@Ice
1. You can't be this dense. I'm asking you to comment on your point that you subconsciously associate me as something else.

Except I've played with you multiple times before. You should already have a sense of both my town and my scum games, and there shouldn't be any learning needed. I find that to be a weak reason with our history.

You shouldn't be learning my meta, you should be applying what you know and see if it fits with my normal scum/town play by now or using it a loose outline of what you'd expect from me.

"eyes Iceerint"

I will ignore you because I get avatarless players confused and I put them all together in the "avatarless player" box in my head. As a side-effect, I will unconsciously apply avatarless-player norms to you when I interpret your play, too, which are mostly noob norms (which would be inappropriate to apply to you, etc).

So it will help me to learn you this game.

I'm responding to the bolded line that you posted. I'm saying that you have a meta on me and that yu already admitted that you know how I play, making your fuss with my avatarness moot.

2. Did you know that there is only one player in this game that's actually commented on something useful in this game about the debate? Yeah that's Kdub. Kdub, saying that this debate is moot. I've attacked you on this. Oh wait, you spent the last 3 posts commenting about it. You spent time, and effort agreeing with rewq45.

Do you want to know WHY I won't change my avatar? I want to see if you'd actually scum hunt outside your comments about this. I've been goading you to, you know, proceed past this "lack of avatarness" but we have 2 pages of back and forths about it.

3. I did expect a response from you, based on this quote, but it's more addressed to MoI. I'm a bit shocked you skimmed over that.

Ice voting in self preservation is a scum argument against him actually. If you didn't take the convo with Fate and Ice as a joke, Ice is heavily buddying with Fate with a plea bargain to vote. Why would a town player WANT/NEED TO BARGAIN to STAY SAFE. Screw that. If Fate is attacking me IF he THINKS I'M SCUM, then I have nothing to fear other then he's WRONG and my GAMEPLAY will AUTOMATICALLY SHOW THIS. So this is a point AGAINST ICE. Not FOR ICE.

4. I'm confused Ice, didn't you just agree with Chrono by saying Fate could be joking? You just answered his question. You took the time and explained why Fate's claim could all just be a joke. You addressed Zork's attack and Chrono's question, but Chrono gets the blunt end of it.

How can you defend Fate, and criticize Chrono for doing the same thing?

@BL
1. Precisely, which is why it's

more weird that MoI said that Fate was acting normal

after pulling up this debate. I quoted it before in my attack on MoI.

@Fate
1. Because alignment links between players are awesome notes.
2. Wait you real claimed? Wait wut.
3. See this bullet? Yes it sez Fate. I want it in you tonight. Kapiech? I'm eliminating noise man, no hard feelings.
4. Also the MoI train needs to take off. Lets eat the obv scum to frighten them :3

[DTMaster]

Also I like Zod. The end. Reactions are awesome.

[DTMaster]

Apologies though, I get the hint that I should turn down the dial a bit. I will sleep on a few ideas now.

[DTMaster]

@Ice
1. No, the subconcious association of Player and Avatar

does not relate to alignment

. It relates to identification. If you are playing multiple newbie games where this is common

it should be up to you to read the player's name

. If you group them all to the same person, under simillar reasonings, then you're forewarning us that we should expect you to be lazy through association. And that is not a town mindset.

2. The other response to the avatar one is: No I won't nao kthnks. Read my name.

3. I'm not saying you're scum because you want me to get an avatar. That is misrep. I'm saying that rather then analyze this game, you choose to focus on the avatar issue rather then comment on the Prana case, the Fate case, and the MoI case. You

chose to debate this over progressing any reads

.

I may have caused a positive feed back loop by continually bringining this point up, however you already have enough experience with my games to know my meta with/without avatars. You're saying that my lack of avatar is a distraction, but that cannot be the case when our experience together is insurmountable.

All of points 1-3 suggests a lazy way of thinking, and somone focused on theory based attacks rather then scum hunting.

4. You also ignored the fact that I attack MoI's interpretion of your vote on Fate. I said that one way to view your RV vote with Fate is scum bargaining lulz.

5. No I said that you and Chrono did the same thing. I said:

How can

you

defend Fate, and criticize Chrono for doing the same thing?

Chrono questioned I quote:

Wait. how does Fate posting a picture from the KH wiki = Scumclaim?

You said I quote:

Fate may be joking; I'm not sure. I was scum with him in SE2, so I know he knew that scum had gotten fakeclaims in earlier SE games. If they were randomly dropped here and Fate didn't mess with pre-game stuff, I could see him being confused. Seems like a pretty severe error for Fate to make, though.

You're point is invalid because you used the same rational as Chrono. Chrono asked how if the claim was a scum claim. You said that this was a joke. Though Chrono did not say specifically that it could have been the joke, both your and Chrono's premise leaves open the fact that: Fate could be fake claiming gambiting. By attacking Chrono, you attack your own implict questioning of: "Is this a fake claim?"

Chrono's rational is the

exact same of you

the moment you called out as a joke. Chrono did not do a Zod and vote Fate who thought he caught scum, he questioned the claim. You questioned the claim by calling it a joke, and by calling out the self vote as an indicator of a joke. Therefore, your rational and Chronos are the same. If you say that Chrono's rational for questioning the vote is in question

then your rational itself is in question because both arguments support the same reasoning

.

IMO: If Chrono was scum

why would Scum-Chrono derail a delicious Fate wagon? Hm?

. I wouldn't question it as much because Fate did post an "Oops Kise didn't give me a fake claim WTF" post. It's really easy to push. It'll be fast. Battle Mage Mafia with Tubby shows this.

There's little scum motivation to do this. I can't see it at least. But your vote on Chrono is contradictory, which reads as deliciously scummy.

@Avatar Debate
1. No. The end. Move on.

@MoI
1. RBT's second post on DAY 1 was a MILLAR claim. I wouldn't see a reason to question that tbh since it's still a DAY 1 MILLAR claim. I don't see the reasoning to this question. Answer this after RBT's response: What was the point of that question plz? Were you trying to scum hunting RBT?

2. I included Reboot just for technacalities since we both were in that game :p You are right though, the other games are better meta refrences.

3. LIAR MAN. I will show you how you inferred that Fate was behaving normally.

Hmmm ... Fate so casually ignores a budding Vezok wagon ....

Interesting ...

You better have a meta argument to back up your recent claim. What's so interesting about Fate ignoring Vezok (other then I would have preferred the day kill on that man)?

Read Fate’s post game series of rants in the recently ended Objection Mafia Redux.
Then read [REDACTED].

--

I have a heart, believe it or not.

...somewhere...

Is it in a small jar somewhere? And you really can’t tell me you’ve suddenly gone soft.

I directly questioned you on why the interaction was interesting. You gave meta links that showed Fate should show hostility towards Vezok. This is implied reasoning due to the link you gave.

You also directly said that: Fate is implausably acting soft and you don't believe that.

Two instances where you questioned Fate's behaviour, then switched to this POV.

Fate’s was Fate.

Since when do I need to put words in your mouth when you said them for me already. :3 If you really believed that Fate was Fate

why would you bother saying that his interactions with Vezok was interesting

. There's no reason to unless you saw

something abnormal

that made you want to look into this/ make the town look into this.

You were able to IMPLICITLY say that there is a link between Vezok and Fate assuming one person flips scum

. You are back tracking by saying the meta link was just an observation

for the sake of observation

. And that's scummy since you're not scum hunting, you're just stating things for the sake of it without following through, mister "I have nothing to do with this so back off" liar.

2. Self presevation is different. Of course people defend themselves. But Ice didn't defend himself from an attack. He just hopped on Fate's good side by joining in the MoI wagon. That's not a town defence. If you're saying that the vote jump was simple self presevation from Fate observing Ice, that has a stronger scum motivation in the form called buddying. A town player would pursue his views without needing that. If he does get attacked I would expect him to defend, and continue scum hunting (i.e. I'm town for XYZ, this guy is scum for ABC, not Let's settle on this guy Fate, K? K.)

3. No, by meta you're saying that Fate should have been attacking

Vezok, not you

. That's the whole point of your assocation of Fate/Vezok. Fate just called you scum because he thinks you're scum.

4. Lulz pressuring is not a scum tell, nice smoke screen to theory man. You just contradicted yourself in this:

But Prana jumping on a building bandwagon proclaiming ‘That was easy’ without even stopping to ask why Fate ignoring Vezok was worth noticing?

Scumtastic.

ulz yourself. The only thing you have to say is you agree with the reasoning then spend the rest of the Prana paragraph saying “YUZ IS STRETCHING”.

Is pressure early, which by definitition has to be a stretch (as is your ‘case’, BTW ), a scum-tell?

WHY ARE YOU PRESSURING PRANA WHEN YOU'RE CALLING HIM SCUMZ MR BACK TRACK. Pressuring is a tool to look at suspcious people. You just made an argument against Prana calling him scummy. Now that reasoning is just pressuring? That means you don't have a scum read on Prana? Is it a fence sitting read? Oh mai what a serious backtrack.

Pressure is null, it means you're applying stress on a person (which can be good or bad depending on how you do it). It has very, very good potential to be used for scum hunting, or in the case of OoT mafia a good sense of noise (I used it personally).

Like I said: I'm attacking you because your reasoning to disregard the other votes were weak in comparison to the Prana vote reason (You have an ok reason to attack/vote). But you know what, now you're smoke screening me with theory talk and "pressuring". That's scummy. You're hinting that your scum read is relatively weak. I read it between the lines. You're leaking your motivation in that text.

[DTMaster]

@BL
1. Oh lovely, a guy who changes his mind on a dime without a reason for his meta. ><;;

2. You gotz the dead thread to help you man. :< No fair.

@Fate
1. Lulz. I'd still kill you due to super paranoia man. You say it's a gambit. Why can't this be a gambit of a gambit (of a gambit of a gambit of a gambit.... lulz). I do like the reactions though. I thought Zod who actually is pushing this wagon to be town. Given your meta, I'd flip it in reverse and look at the people who are with buddying the Fate FYI.

I'd really, really, realllllllly doubt scum would put all their eggs into your wagon. There'd be at least one who'd one to be in Fate's good space here you know.

2. Dutch one has posted here everyday except Monday? I think your perception of time is a bit skewed by the hype- scratch that I just read Dutchs post

3. I HAS WORDS NAO.

@Dutch

My vote started as an RVS, but I have the feeling that it was a good guess. At the moment I'm content with my vote for you. If I didn't RVS you, then I wouldnt've voted for you. Not because I don't suspect you, but because there isn't any fullproof evidence for anyone yet (including you). I do suspect you, but that could easily change. The only reason why I'm still voting because I am already voting for you. It is not the question "should I vote you or not" but "Should I keep my vote and keep everything the same or should I unvote you". I'm just keeping him because I think you might be real scum.

It was RVS -> Gut read -> Not supported by logic yet -> Gut read -> Null read that can change to scum or town -> What is this fencesitting mess -> He might be scum cause, you know everyone might be scum or town but that's the gut read. :S

I read the post after which clarifies your reasoning: and IHMO is a big reason to why I want to shoot Fate, but at the same time HATE IT when I LIE for GAMBITS. Zomg DTM lies as town (Objection Mafia). Zomg DTM tells the truth as scum (OoT Mafia). Wut is this madness? I agree though, the motivation is strong in here and Fate's suspenion is riiighhht.

@Reck/Dram
1. Ew. EW. EW. One line jabs man? Why are you playing to your scum meta, AGAIN. First Tarot Card. Now Invite. Reck you need a better playbook. You fit the description of the scum I described to Fate in my point 1.

2. "evil laughter". Never assume anything about the DTM huhuhuhuhuhuh.

[DTMaster]

I has an avatar nao.

[DTMaster]

@BL
1. Quick jabs are easy to do. Reck-scum does that. If someone wants to rile up the crowd, the could put input something

eg. MoI sez: This is interesting

Then the town snowballs it into

eg. DTM/BL: I see lets look into this and attack Fate!

Scum could care less about continuing it, they just need to draw the town in and take credit for the original idea. I've done it before, so I'm always critical about people's intentions when they stop developing an idea.

@Fate
1. 18 People, most definately.

[DTMaster]

わああああああ！　 or Bah!

[DTMaster]

I caught Reck day 1 but youuuu wanted the bloc lol. Oh well.

[DTMaster]

When Kise told me scum could
multi kill 3 times I went omg town is screwed in the no reveal setup lol. That and the Leblanc soft claim was powerful.

[DTMaster]

We had a case of too many scummy townies lol.

[DTMaster]

I'm sad no one chose to reveal me. :< Or take me seriously about my Reck attacks lol.

[DTMaster]

I really did, except I had hints where you told me to dial down the whineometer that I was off somewhere. :V. Gut sez wait a minute. Mind went, attttaaaacccckkk!

[DTMaster]

:shuuuusssh: I get things wrong. Then again, no one didn't expect scum to shoot all the trio of town on town conflicts all at once.