Mini 1113 - Brotherhood of the Wolf Mafia

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: UncertainKitten for glorifying her own lynch in one of our first games together. Remember that?

[StrangerCoug]

Ok scratch that, Mari and UK are probably buddies.

The hell? It makes no sense for the scum to try to run up one of their buddies to a lynch in the RVS.

UNVOTE: UncertainKitten
VOTE: Katsuki

[StrangerCoug]

Actually, UNVOTE: Katsuki. I can't read.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: V/LA unter further notice. I think I blew the power supply to my computer.

I hope I didn't, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

SC, why did you conveniently forget to place your vote somewhere else?

Because I am not going to revert to RVS after placing a serious vote, no matter how misguided it is, and no one else stands out yet.

@SC, early bus ever heard of it? you probably have. In all fairness they could being trying to distance themselves early on... they did have a long time in their pre-game qt.

Yeah, but if we are to assume 10:3 mountainous, then why would Mafia want to turn it into 9:2 so badly?

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Out of V/LA. I fortunately just disconnected my power supply from my motherboard by mistake.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: That sounds more like "I don't want to commit to a stance that might bite me in the ass now that things are in flux"

What the heck was there, whether it was likely to bite me in the ass or not? I voted too hastily, I retracted, and I saw nothing else. Don't make things more complex. If there's something that sticks out, I'll comment on it.

Also why would we assume 10:3 mountainous? Did I miss a memo?

I was putting forth a hypothetical situation where the math was easy to do. There is too wide a variety of setups to be certain of a mountainous game.

[StrangerCoug]

Then your hypothetical is pointless.

I'm still straining to see the pro-scum motive in actually getting your buddies lynched in the RVS. Untrod Tripod made a good point with me, but still...

You know what, I'm putting my vote back. I don't understand why I'm making a big fuss about bussing in the RVS when my foot is not when my mouth is.
VOTE: Katsuki

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, so you don't see scum going to that extreme either. I don't really count scum voting scum in the RVS as bussing, but you make your point.

[StrangerCoug]

Also why would we assume 10:3 mountainous? Did I miss a memo?

Also this is a very valid point.

And I addressed it already. I wanted to know why scum would want to dispose of one of their buddies in the RVS, and a mountainous setup is the easiest to work with when thinking about this sort of theory thing. I would be extremely surprised if I correctly guessed the setup that early.

[StrangerCoug]

Don't get me wrong. I'm in favour of millers claiming on D1 and all. But it's been half an hour since I asked for flavour. Did you log off immediately after posting?

The quicker you come forward with a character and flavour, the more likely I am to believe you.

For a forum game of Mafia, that's an awfully short period of time to be complaining about having to wait for an answer. Unless you know that Reckamonic had been posting elsewhere, I don't see the problem.

Awaiting Mina's questions for me.

[StrangerCoug]

Makes sense.

[StrangerCoug]

How the hell were we supposed to know your role name was "Head of the Brotherhood of the Wolf"???? Dick.

Good point. I find it interesting that somebody else gave a nameclaim possibility and Reckamonic took it and ran with it. Something's not right.

UNVOTE: Katsuki
VOTE: Reckamonic

[StrangerCoug]

I hate to do this twice in close succession, but the problem I complained about regarding not feeling well has gotten worse. I have a fever.

Mod: V/LA again.

[StrangerCoug]

Still sick; just popping my word in.

I'm liking Reckamonic even less for the policy lynch push of CooLDoG. Seriously, there aren't a lot of times that policy lynching is good and you know it.

GhostWriter vs. Katsuki is interesting. For now I'm more inclined to support GhostWriter, but that's admittedly based on my previous suspicion of Katsuki. I'll look at it again when I'm not coughing about every 20 minutes.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Out of V/LA.

[StrangerCoug]

I thought your boyfriend was dramonic...

Well, if life is tough, life is tough. If you need a break, take it. I'll gun AlmasterGM's cheap vote on you for you.

[StrangerCoug]

A gentleman's man, eh?

[StrangerCoug]

This other game discussion is getting old. More discussion about this game, please.

Zang, CoolDog is not a very pro-town player. He's just less scummy than some others.

Reckamonic needs to be more useful. Policy lynch = bad. Why aren't you voting fitz, for whom you gave a much better case?

After another re-read, I'm switching my vote. UT has been more useless than AKR. Bandwagon vote with no reason given, accuses AGM of fake scumhunting w/o trying to scumhunt at all himself.
UNVOTE: AKR, VOTE: Untrod Tripod

@Maryita: I disagree completely that UT has been less helpful than AKR. This unvote/vote bothers me a bit.

/me notes CooLDoG agreeing with MAri

/me notes CooLDoG failing to vote his scumbuddy UT.

QFT. Also note Mary switching vote to UT.

TL;DR

Something is amiss in the Mary, UT, CD interactions. Also possible AKR/CD connection, should either flip scum. There is surprisingly little to comment on for an 8 page game. If there are any unanswered questions to my slot that I missed, feel free to ask them again.

Unvote
Vote: Untrod Tripod

This section's funny. It would lead me to think you suspect Mariyta the most going only by this, but your vote goes on Untrod Tripod.

Hmm...if I HAVE to choose a third, I lean StrangerCoug. Most of his posts are basically fluff or irrelevant. The posts he DOES make that are relevant are mostly reiterating observations others have made. Correct me if I'm wrong, SC, but you haven't made one unique observation all game.

So, everyone else go~

I actually have made one, but it's a little subtle:

Well, if life is tough, life is tough. If you need a break, take it. I'll gun AlmasterGM's cheap vote on you for you.

This implies that I don't like AlmasterGM's voting Reckamonic for "ragequitting", and I believe I'm the only one to call him out on it.

In any event, I have a life. I don't post from work. If I'm not the first person to notice something, then I'm not the first person to notice something, but I'm allowed to agree with people.

AKR: The "I'm not the only one doing it!" defense towards the active lurking vote from Mary. Overreaction to a single vote.

CD: Contradictory stated in 180.

Mary: Interactions between CD and UT. Specifically those discussed in 180.

UT: Active lurking + complete uselessness.

And now, while I'm thinking about it:

Unvote
Vote: AKR

This is more logical.

[StrangerCoug]

Hi CoolDog. Do this:

Who do you suspect and why, in 5 sentences or less.

Now.

You as well, SC.

LynchMePls: His predecessor claimed the Henri Sardis part of his claim after another person brought up the name. Previously, he had claimed only he was the head of the BotW—he did not supply a name. LynchMePls's logic for voting Untrod Tripod seemed a bit off as well.

AlmasterGM: I find the vote for Reckamonic for "ragequitting" cheap. This screams like a policy lynch to me.

Forced to spit out a third name, I'm still good to go with Katsuki for the RVS dance from the beginning of the game. Voting Mariyta for unvoting you for not wanting an RVS wagon so fast is crap. I've reread Katsuki vs. Ghostwriter, and I still favor Ghostwriter in the argument.

[StrangerCoug]

AlmasterGM: I find the vote for Reckamonic for "ragequitting" cheap. This screams like a policy lynch to me.

Is it a policy lynch if we lynch people that a confirmed cop has a guilty on?

Normally, no, but whether there's a claimed cop or not, a miller claim throws a wrench in the works. We do not know if a guilty on who is now LynchMePls is a legitimate guilty or one altered by the miller role.

Is it a policy lynch if we lynch people who lie in an anti-town matter?

Yes, but one I usually support, and I do in the case I present on Reckamonic/LynchMePls.

NO. It's called lynching SCUM. I wasn't saying we lynch EVERYONE who replaces ALL THE TIME, I was saying, in

that specific context

, what xReck did was scummy because 1) he didn't give any explanation for the quit OTHER than rage and 2) I had seen him play through rage as town before.

If you question the miller claim, then why didn't you say so until now? As I said, the "ragequit" vote is cheap. Screw Reckamonic's meta.

So it's NOT A POLICY LYNCH. End of story. If you want to take this to MD afterwards I would love to. Now stop.

I will stop when you stop polluting my case on you with irrelevant crap.

Also, it makes no sense that you have this advocacy when right above you say LMP (AKA RECK) is scummy. So I'm pushing a policy lynch on my buddy? lolwut.

"Policy lynching my scumbuddy is not a legitimate move." Way to WIFOM. You want to know my anti-WIFOM weapon? Not trying to predict scum.

AKR - Per LMP's awesomeness.

Piggybacking FTL.

StrangerCoug - Too wrong to be town. What isn't wrong is fluff.

Cheap case #2 FTL.

[StrangerCoug]

@AGM: Where is CD contradicting himself? If you already pointed it out, feel free to quote yourself.

I'll keep my vote on reck, but I think now I understand his posting. You should post v/la and take a break, whats the point of playing a game if it isn't fun?

What the fuck is this garbage.

You either BUY that the quit was legitimate or you DON'T. You don't say, "oh, I think he's quitting for legit reasons, but VOTE ANYWAY."

----

I will stop when you stop polluting my case on you with irrelevant crap.

When

I

stop polluting

your

case? You don't own the concept of Reckscum.

Neither do you.

Moreover, nobody else is calling is calling it crap BUT YOU, so maybe if you just stopped arguing semantics about what is / is not a policy lynch this wouldn't even matter.

Just because nobody supports my argument does not render it invalid.

In fact, the more I think about it and the more I read your response, the more convinced I become that you are scum. This whole calling my vote a "policy lynch" but then 1) not actually explaining why the vote in and of itself was bad, 2) dismissing my LEGIT REASONS for voting (e.g., you say "screw your meta argument) saying some policy lynches are good, and 3) turning the whole discussion into semantics about policy lynching makes me think you are using "policy lynching" as a fear tactic.

I have called it a cheap policy lynch. You disagree. That you disagree is fine for the purposes of this part of my argument, but I don't see how else it is inadequate.

I do not accept meta as a valid basis for a vote. If xRECKONERx and dramonic are smart, and I hope very much they are, they'll play to their town meta as scum. Therefore, the concept of "town meta" is flawed. If you want me to relent with regard to this, I want a scum motivation behind someone saying "screw you all, I'm outta here" that has nothing to do with what that person has done in previous games.

Piggybacking FTL.

ORLY?

Good point. I find it interesting that somebody else gave a nameclaim possibility and Reckamonic took it and ran with it. Something's not right.

UNVOTE: Katsuki
VOTE: Reckamonic

Piggybacking FTL.[/quote]
There's a difference between what's going on, AGM. Reckamonic gave the name Henri Sardons two posts prior to the quote of mine you post, and the intervening post is not directed at Reckamonic. Therefore, I am the first person to suspect Reckamonic for tacking on the name to the claim. You, on the other hand, are taking LynchMePls's word for it that AKnottedRope is scum without question. Fine, but it'd be nice if you added something.

[StrangerCoug]

Just because nobody supports my argument does not render it invalid.

If 4-5 people come out and say, "your arguments are crap," then I will accept that they are probably crap and STFU. Otherwise, I am going to roll with the fact that I am right and you are either A) scum or B) bad at determining what is crap. A being more likely in this case.

No weaseling out here. Sorry.

I have called it a cheap policy lynch. You disagree. That you disagree is fine for the purposes of this part of my argument, but I don't see how else it is inadequate.

I do not accept meta as a valid basis for a vote. If xRECKONERx and dramonic are smart, and I hope very much they are, they'll play to their town meta as scum. Therefore, the concept of "town meta" is flawed. If you want me to relent with regard to this, I want a scum motivation behind someone saying "screw you all, I'm outta here" that has nothing to do with what that person has done in previous games.

You are underestimating the power of anger.

Yes, Reck and dram are smart.

But even the smartest people can have trouble putting on a perfect facade when they are angry. Thus, the ragequit was relevant.

And I don't really care if you don't accept meta as an argument. I do, and so do plenty of other people. So if you want to vote for me for using meta (oooooohohohoho look, scary policy lynches) then go ahead and do that.

Fine, because this does little to answer my question. Your use of the word "facade" implies that Reckamonic was trying to hide something, but couldn't anymore once he blew up. What the hell is it, and what makes his anger scummy?

UNVOTE: Katsuki
VOTE: AlmasterGM

There's a difference between what's going on, AGM. Reckamonic gave the name Henri Sardons two posts prior to the quote of mine you post, and the intervening post is not directed at Reckamonic. Therefore, I am the first person to suspect Reckamonic for tacking on the name to the claim. You, on the other hand, are taking LynchMePls's word for it that AKnottedRope is scum without question. Fine, but it'd be nice if you added something.

Oh no. Oh no you don't.

Reck had already claimed head of brotherhood of the wolf. This is a THEME game, and the head of the brotherhood of the wolf has a DEFINED NAME. There aren't multiple options to chose from. When xReck claimed "head of the brotherhood of the wolf," it doesn't matter that he didn't include the official namey-name because he was already locked in. He couldn't come back later and say, "oh wait guyz, JUST KIDDING, I meant that OTHER head of the brotherhood of the wolf." So you get NO EXTRA POINTS for calling that out because all the cards were already on the table. You were copying Mariyta's argument PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

I can accept that there is only one head of the BotW and that the name is implied. I just kind of expected them to spit out the name instead of insist that their nameclaim is just "head of the BoTW" with no other info. I am completely unfamiliar with the movie and expected a werewolf-themed game, which I haven't played in awhile.

StrangerCoug, leaning scum

Looking through SC's ISO, I see very little scumhunting and a whole lot of theory discussion and weasel words. He makes some decent points about Reck, but at this point the discussion about that slot really should be more about LMP than his predecessor. SC's and AGM's argument about Reck is just dragging on and getting into pointless semantics. AGM has moved onto other things, SC has not.

I am sorry, but Reck's actions do not clear LMP. As for AGM, I want answers and I will push until I get them.

I

decide when I'm happy with what I've been given, and right now I'm not.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh hi, OMGUS.

OMGUS is voided when I have a legitimate case back (I didn't get a straight answer to a legitimate question), and mind you, I've been nudging at you ever since Reckamonic left. You just didn't comment until I used it to refute that I had no original content.

GhostWriter vs. CooLDoG is quite the déjà vu, too.

[StrangerCoug]

Actually, come to think of it, AlmasterGM and CooLDoG are more likely to be buddies than AlmasterGM and who is now LynchMePls are.

[StrangerCoug]

AlmasterGM: I find the vote for Reckamonic for "ragequitting" cheap. This screams like a policy lynch to me.

I disagree. He quit for no reason and didn't elaborate until after his vote.

Could you clarify here? AlmasterGM still won't tell me the scum motivation behind what Reckamonic did, so I'm having trouble connecting the dots.

If I were buddies with cooldog I would just NK myself so don't worry about that.

WIFOM, and in most games scumbuddies can't kill each other. So defending with crap.

Also your case is not legit because it is basically just, "you voted Reck."

No, my case is not basically "you voted Reck." I disagree that the reasoning is scummy, and when I tried to get you to prove otherwise you basically start playing dodgeball instead of Mafia. Your WIFOM is also telling me you're flailing.

And as far as the answer to this goes:

Fine, because this does little to answer my question. Your use of the word "facade" implies that Reckamonic was trying to hide something, but couldn't anymore once he blew up. What the hell is it, and what makes his anger scummy?

He's trying to hide the fact that he's scum under pressure, obv? It's simple.

I'm town. Idiots attack me. They gain momentum. I deal with it because I'm town so they'll look like morons and I and don't really give a shit (HAS HAPPENED IN PAST).
I'm scum. Idiots attack me. They gain momentum. I get fucking pissed off because I'm scum and they are catching me in a manner I deem illegitimate. I get angry. They keep calling me scum. I blow up and RAGEQUIT at the injustice because I'm scum and DO GIVE A SHIT.

Basically, people give a shit when they are scum. TRUE FACT.

Why this even matters at all anymore is TOTALLY beyond me.

This makes sense. Now tell me how else Reckamonic is scummy.

Speaking of the LMP wagon...

SC, you unvoted Kat but the mod had you voting LMP.

UNVOTE: Katsuki
VOTE: AlmasterGM

My mistake.

I'm finding yours and AGM's little back and forth interesting. Unless I am reading it wrong it appears you both suspect the Reck/LMP slot but rather than voting it, you are arguing with each other over it to the point where you're each voting each other. wtf?

We obviously disagree upon how Reckamonic was scummy. I had issues with the way he claimed; AlmasterGM had issues with the way he skedaddled. However, as I recently said, I don't think AlmasterGM and Reckamonic are likely buddies, but rather AlmasterGM and CooLDoG. If my understanding of the CooLDoG case is correct, he is being attacked for similar reasoning that I am attacking AGM, and I really don't think two buddies are going to find a cheap as hell way to dispose of the third. Yes, I said I don't try to predict the Mafia, but a scumteam of AlmasterGM, CooLDoG, and LynchMePls currently sounds ridiculous to me.

Rule B2 has been amended to clarify the Unvote procedure. You are not required
to specify who you Unvote, but if you do and specify an incorrect player it is not
considered an Unvote.

UNVOTE: LynchMePls
VOTE: AlmasterGM

Happy with the CooLDoG wagon, though.

[StrangerCoug]

No, my case is not basically "you voted Reck." I disagree that the reasoning is scummy, and when I tried to get you to prove otherwise you basically start playing dodgeball instead of Mafia. Your WIFOM is also telling me you're flailing.

How am I playing dodgeball? I EXPLICITLY responded to your argument IMMEDIATELY after you made it.

Is it a policy lynch if we lynch people that a confirmed cop has a guilty on? Is it a policy lynch if we lynch people who lie in an anti-town matter?

NO. It's called lynching SCUM. I wasn't saying we lynch EVERYONE who replaces ALL THE TIME, I was saying, in that specific context, what xReck did was scummy because 1) he didn't give any explanation for the quit OTHER than rage and 2) I had seen him play through rage as town before.

So it's NOT A POLICY LYNCH. End of story. If you want to take this to MD afterwards I would love to. Now stop.

And I told you why this answer doesn't work for me, pretty much point by point:

• Nobody has claimed cop with a guilty on Reckamonic. Therefore, it makes no sense to bring into question whether it's a policy lynch to go after somebody on which a cop claimed a guilty.
  
• While it's implied that you think Reckamonic's miller claim is fake when you vote him, you never directly address it, which needlessly throws me for a loop.
  
• Metaing a good player doesn't work. You claim that something you usually see in his town play is absent, so he's scum. As most people try to play to their town meta regardless of alignment, I wanted you to supply a scum motivation for his actions.

If you don't LIKE my reasoning, then fine, we can sit around and argue theory all day. Or we could just drop it. Whatever. But DON'T tell me I'm playing TEEHEE dodgeball when I'm not. The responses to your "case" (which is still terrible / non-existant) are clearly posted.

If you do not want me to accuse you of playing dodgeball, then give straight answers to my questions. Your response to the scum motive of Reckamonic's actions is that he had this façade that gave out when he ragequit. When I asked what he was hiding with it, you told me that he was hiding the fact that he was scum and that scum give a damn. Now, granted, I

DID

accept the "scum give a damn" part, but I feel that there should be more to it than that.

I'd love a brief explanation from all those voting cooldog as to why they think he's scum. It'll help keep me from falling behind.

I support his wagon and wouldn't mind switching under deadline pressure, so I'll have my say in the matter: The same meta crap as AlmasterGM.

[StrangerCoug]

Since I'm comparing CooLDoG to AlmasterGM, I'd like the latter and GhostWriter to give opinions about each other. (GhostWriter is the person I see as pushing CooLDoG the most, which is why I picked him.)

[StrangerCoug]

I actually have. I felt he was stretching to try to find a reason to vote the slot. I think I used the phrase "taking a large leap" while doing it.

Oh. Must have been gunning AlmasterGM so hard I missed it.

[StrangerCoug]

While it's implied that you think Reckamonic's miller claim is fake when you vote him, you never directly address it, which needlessly throws me for a loop.

I didn't imply anything. In fact, I didn't mention the miller claim at all because I don't care and it doesn't affect the read.

There is no such thing as a scum miller the last time I checked, and you either believe the miller claim or you don't. Your vote on him tells me you don't.

Metaing a good player doesn't work. You claim that something you usually see in his town play is absent, so he's scum. As most people try to play to their town meta regardless of alignment, I wanted you to supply a scum motivation for his actions.

And most scum are going to try and play to a "town motivation" too, aren't they? But it doesn't always work, because even if you are very good player, it's hard. The same applies to meta. Sure, you are going to TRY and fake townmeta, but sometimes emotions get the best of you slip up.

That it's hard if not impossible to play perfectly to a town meta is accepted, but we're back to where we started. Everybody has bad days. Why do xRECKONERx's and dramonic's bad days condemn them?

Also, I asked for your opinion on GhostWriter since he's pushing the same thing on CooLDoG as I am on you. What do you think of him?

StrangerCoug: I never got around to explaining my problems with him. For one thing, his stance on Katsuki made no sense. Like, no fucking sense whatsoever. Seriously. "Katsuki, why are you accusing Mariyta of leading a scum wagon on." "Never mind, I misunderstood that. UNVOTE." "Yeah, actually, come to think of it, I

will

revote Katsuki now that you're pressuring me, because babble babble something about my mouth and foot and red blue green pineapple 42." Can you explain your thought process behind your vote, unvote, and revote of Katsuki? I feel as though I'm missing something important.

I decided that I was wasting energy on the way Katsuki was dealing with the wagon when I was not voting her.

Add to that his lame vote on Reckamonic (which he STILL hasn't acknowledged), and the hypocrisy surrounding his read on AGM.

Could you clarify the hypocrisy bit?

(On a side note, the SC vs. AGM battle is ridiculous. "You're scummy because MY reason for suspecting Reckamonic is sooooooo much superior to yours." Guys, why don't you settle your differences and realize that

both

of your reasons suck?

*cue LMP flipping scum, because this happens every time I arrogantly proclaim a town read*

)

Well, given I've decided that I see a AlmasterGM/CooLDoG/LynchMePls scumteam as ridiculous and I have a genuine belief that AGM and CD are connected...

@UK - Haha, not EVERYONE who calls me scum is scum. It's just SC and AKR happened to be so blinded by the AWESOMENESS of my scumhunting they had no choice but to flail, go into OMGUS-mode, and otherwise be scummy.

You've been flailing quite a bit yourself, my friend.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh come now, I'm not THAT bad at this game.

Why does this look funny?

[StrangerCoug]

P-edit: Because SC essentially said the same thing in different words, only you went overboard with an "OMGGUYZ, look at this! It's soooooo creepy!"

I find this nitpicking weird. CooLDoG's wording draws more attention than mine, so his is scummier? I'm not sure I have this right.

@StrangerCoug - please go back to the cougar avatar, it was much awesomer than your new one.

It's still a cougar avatar Just a different one.

(There's a reason I changed it, but it involves an ongoing game, so I don't really know if I'm allowed to say it.)

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug - please go back to the cougar avatar, it was much awesomer than your new one.

It's still a cougar avatar Just a different one.

(There's a reason I changed it, but it involves an ongoing game, so I don't really know if I'm allowed to say it.)

OK, I checked with the mod of that game, and he's cleared this. It's to prevent confusion with themanhimself's avatar.

[StrangerCoug]

-StrangerCoug, maybe hypocrisy was the wrong word; I meant for your "My reason for suspecting Reckamonic is AWESOME, and yours sucks." (Yes, I know you've moved on since then. Speaking of which, what do you think of LynchMePls' recent play?)

I may think he needs to take a chill pill, but he's town.

But what exactly did you find funny about Katsuki's post? (For the record, I found it a completely null reaction.) Your comment was very vague.

I haven't been able to pinpoint it; if I had, I wouldn't have brought it up in the form of a question. Something reads "cheap dismissal of a case", though.

[StrangerCoug]

-AKnottedRope, again, what do you think about havingfitz? And although Zang pestering everyone to give reasons for voting him is annoying, can you explain more of why Zang shot to the top of your suspect list?

So I'm supposed to let people vote for me for no reason at all?

Why are you jumping in here? Annoying ≠ scummy, and the question was directed at AKnottedRope.

[StrangerCoug]

-AKnottedRope, again, what do you think about havingfitz? And although Zang pestering everyone to give reasons for voting him is annoying, can you explain more of why Zang shot to the top of your suspect list?

So I'm supposed to let people vote for me for no reason at all?

Why are you jumping in here? Annoying ≠ scummy, and the question was directed at AKnottedRope.

I was not jumping in, I did not answer or comment on the question directed at AKR. Why are you jumping in here? My question was directed at Mina.

This is a straight-up lie. Mina claimed, in the question to AKnottedRope, that you bugging the people on your wagon for vote reasons is annoying and you chime in by asking if people are supposed to just pile on you for the hell of it. Therefore, you jumped in.

UNVOTE: AlmasterGM
VOTE: Zang

[StrangerCoug]

Let's trim down the pyramid a bit...

This is a straight-up lie. Mina claimed, in the question to AKnottedRope, that you bugging the people on your wagon for vote reasons is annoying and you chime in by asking if people are supposed to just pile on you for the hell of it. Therefore, you jumped in.

UNVOTE: AlmasterGM
VOTE: Zang

How is that scummy?

He said something about me that I didn't agree with so I asked him to explain.

As I said, annoying ≠ scummy. The way you asked Mina the question is paranoid.

[StrangerCoug]

I was asking Mina. Once again, why is that scummy?

Oh, why is you asking Mina a question scummy? There wasn't a need to intrude on her line of questioning. Yes, she posted an opinion of you, but I interpret it as relatively null.

[StrangerCoug]

So, why are you voting me?

Your reaction is unnatural, Zang. A milder response such as "I don't like how you dismiss my trying to figure out what the case on me is as annoying" might have gone over with me well, but basically asking "What the hell am I supposed to do, sit there?" comes off as panicky scum to me.

[StrangerCoug]

*laughs at the wagon building on me*

I still like Zang as the lynch. He's more worried about himself than finding scum. AlmasterGM (sorry) and CooLDoG are lynches I support also.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC, are you willing to lynch a claimed neighbor d-1? I prefer to lynch the non-contributing miller... that's just me.

Neighbor ≠ town per se, so yes. A mason is supposed to be town, though.

[StrangerCoug]

AGM can't keep his composure, can he?

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Out of V/LA.

[StrangerCoug]

May I have a case from AlmasterGM that doesn't falsely accuse me of OMGUS since I 1.) attacked him first and 2.) shot legitimate cases back, both of which discount such accusations?

[StrangerCoug]

A quick look at Untrod Tripod in ISO doesn't reveal too many incriminating things. Granted, I disagree with a few things he said here and there, and I do see where the lurking accusation is coming from looking at the timestamps, but I need more convincing to go after him right now.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug is still coasting and being scummy, so he's also out.

Coasting. OK, granted, I could talk more, but could you develop your case on me a bit more?

[StrangerCoug]

*laughs at the wagon building on me*

I still like Zang as the lynch. He's more worried about himself than finding scum. AlmasterGM (sorry) and CooLDoG are lynches I support also.

I'm not more worried about myself than finding scum. I found Mariyta and I probably found another one. Also, why are you voting for me? As I said before, your reason is weak.

For the ten millionth time, I don't like how you reacted to Mina's comment about the wagon on you. Annoying ≠ scummy, and there was no reason to react by asking if the correct thing to do was to ignore all the votes on you. I've pulled that "am I supposed to sit there and let the votes pile on me?" stunt as scum myself,

IN A GAME YOU MODDED.

Granted, I answered my own question, but still...

As for the CooLDoG wagon, I'm going to jump on. I commented earlier that I didn't like the meta case on xRECKONERx by either him or AlmasterGM. I'm still pretty confident that there is a scum neighbor, but hey—I might get info by leaving them alive.

UNVOTE: Zang
VOTE: CooLDoG

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, and...

Given a choice between StrangerCoug and CooLDoG, I'd choose the former, because I dislike the way he tried to spin Zang's question as "lying".

Where did I do this? I believe the case I spun off it is that he is overreacting, not lying.

[StrangerCoug]

Don't tell me this is devolving into a semantics argument...

[StrangerCoug]

SC's vote screams scum. I can't say more then that.

Why? Because you refuse to admit that your reasoning for voting xRECKONERx earlier today is crap? Because you're contradicting yourself in terms of my wagon?

LYNCH ME IF YOU WANT BUT I

WILL

FLIP A TOWN POWER ROLE. In case I can't get a claim off quick enough because of the scum pouring on to my wagon.

Trying to save your butt, I see. I like faking power roles as scum myself, son.

[StrangerCoug]

Coasting after backing off an incorrect vote
Coasting

Defending ≠ coasting.

Retracting earlier retraction with no apparent reasoning, PARTICULARLY after not really feeling his prior reasoning

Read that again. I understand part of where you're coming from here, but closer inspection should reveal that I go on about Katsuki's interaction with the random voting stage even after I yank the vote the first time.

Coasting

Again, defending ≠ coasting.

IIoA

If I didn't find the short amount of time allowed for a response unusual, I would not have made that post.

Piggy backing

I'm allowed to agree with people, UncertainKitten.

Oh God Quote Stripes WHY >=[!!!!!

Because I hate you

Just kidding.

Do you? What, pray tell, is your case on AGM?

It's not clear to me what you're implying, but see below for the best I can do.

You are saying things and not supporting them. [[citation needed]]

Read on. I saw a possible AGM-CD link based on them pushing Reckamonic for pretty gosh darn close to the same thing. A scumteam of AlmasterGM, CooLDoG, and Reckamonic (now LynchMePls) was and still is ridiculous to me, as I refuse to believe for one second that it is strategically sound for two scumbuddies to try to get rid of the third for cheap reasoning. It simply made the best sense to accept the miller claim and kill two birds with one stone.

And then insistence on the Zang lynch just feels like "NOOOOOOOOO! MY MISLYNCH!!!! I CANNOT LOSE ITTTTTT!!!!"[/url]
How so? The two of us may have come to an impasse, but I'm pretty sure that's not the point.

Finally, SC, I STILL don't understand your case on CD OR AGM.

Meta is useless. I kept pushing AlmasterGM and pushing AlmasterGM and pushing AlmasterGM to get him to produce a reason not related to other games as to why xRECKONERx was scummy and I never got a satisfactory answer. I accepted the "scum gives a damn" reasoning, but I didn't feel it was enough. Townies have bad days too. He also flailed after other people jumped on his wagon.

[StrangerCoug]

He also flailed after other people jumped on his wagon.

[[citation needed]]

Why are you asking for a citation when you implied thinking this too? Is there a difference between what you thought here and, to answer your question, his page 2 in ISO?

Also, yes, "defending" is coasting when it's the ONLY thing you do.

One of us has the definition wrong then, because when I see "coasting" I think "active lurking".

[StrangerCoug]

I don't see how I was active lurking, but whatever. I'll agree to disagree.

Now answer

MY

question.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm really weirded out by CD's softclaim (I totally failed to notice it too, I guess that's what happens when you make people not want to read your posts). I really, really don't want to believe that town-CD would softclaim this early, but...

unvote CD

Why are you unvoting after what LynchMePls posted? It's one of the most compelling things against him now.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm really weirded out by CD's softclaim (I totally failed to notice it too, I guess that's what happens when you make people not want to read your posts). I really, really don't want to believe that town-CD would softclaim this early, but...

unvote CD

Why are you unvoting after what LynchMePls posted? It's one of the most compelling things against him now.

So you're saying that softclaiming a power role at L-3 is more likely a scum-CD gambit than town-CD idiocy...?

Basically. I do not assume that people are idiots, which is why I dismissed AlmasterGM, CooLDoG, and LynchMePls as the scum trio, and experience should have taught most of us that a power role claim does not always come from town. Vanilla townies are dispensable, so faking a power role is an attractive scum maneuver. DrippingGoofball's signature comes to mind as well.

[StrangerCoug]

But is there anyone other than Mariyta who'd be up for a lynch that isn't CooLDoG or StrangerCoug?

Zang can die in my opinion.

[StrangerCoug]

I just realized that vote doesn't count anyway, because I didn't unvote, but I've been rereading Katsuki in ISO, and just realized how wishy-washy and fluffy his opinions have been.

Would anyone be up for a Katsuki wagon instead of a havingfitz one?

*also looks through Katsuki's iso*
*does not see a strong, concerted attempt at scumhunting*

...Yeah, I'll bite.

[StrangerCoug]

Let's do this.

UNVOTE: CooLDoG
VOTE: Katsuki

[StrangerCoug]

Hmm. StrangerCoug, I'm just curious about something. Hasn't CooLDoG been your top suspect for a while?

Most of the time I've been pushing CooLDoG, I'd been linking him to AlmasterGM.

MAYBE

a tie with him for top during that time, but only briefly did he hold the top slot by himself. The reason I switched from Zang to CooLDoG is because I felt information could be gained about the claimed neighbors by leaving them alive. What, I don't want to supply to scum in case they plan on manipulating it, but for me to believe that AlmasterGM and Zang are both be scum requires a bastard mod, a multiball, or an SK, none of which are supported right now.

Don't get me wrong. I'd like a Katsuki vote and all. But why are you willing to compromise on him when the counterwagon to you is one you're satisfied with?

This is a tad unclear. Are you asking why I'm jumping off the counterwagon to me?

Trimming off the pyramid so I can get this to post:

So yes, the bulk of your accusation was that he was jumping in. But you calling him a liar felt like a misrep. Zang did not lie about the fact that he didn't answer my question to AKR. Also, in Zang's defence, the implication was there that I disliked his pestering people for votes (and therefore found it slightly scummy).

And although I also disliked his jumping in, the fact that you conveniently found Zang scummy for something small that occurred after his wagon took up steam also rubbed me the wrong way.

The lie was that he didn't jump in when, in fact, he did, and your post aligns with this thinking. It's true that Zang didn't answer your question for AKnottedRope and asked you a question himself, but that's it.

[StrangerCoug]

Whom are you replacing, GreyICE?

[StrangerCoug]

CooLDoG should most certainly shoot today, but while I'd pick a scummy player on which we're not likely to be able to get a wagon in time if I were him, we want to be careful that the vig kill is not scum-controlled.

[StrangerCoug]

A dead Zang would make me happy, but whatever floats your boat...

[StrangerCoug]

Don't threaten people, that's anti-town.

I disagree that it is. I view it as a pro-town way to get people to respond.

P-edit: Holy fuck, you did not just do that.

CD, shoot GreyIce

. Shit like that should not be tolerated. I don't give a fuck if you think he's town. He either needs to be shot or replaced.

What is "that," exactly?

[StrangerCoug]

SHOOT ALREADY! GOOD GOD!

Quoted for truth. It shouldn't take you this long to decide whom to shoot. As long as it's scum, we're happy. Heck, bus somebody for all I care.

[StrangerCoug]

Not from me.

[StrangerCoug]

If my early UK experience from when she was still forbiddanlight has taught me anything, I don't think her "glorifying her own dayvigging" that she wanted to happen makes her scum. Nothing seems off about her.

Admitting you're wrong is scumtell. Obvs.

Saying "oops, I messed up" once is not a tell. I can see how a history of it can get suspicious, but CooLDoG is not God.

Katsuki can still eat rope.

[StrangerCoug]

On the one hand, GreyICE needs to take a chill pill, but on the other hand, I feel he's right to attack UncertainKitten for rolefishing for the doctor. In addition, the last sentence of #974 is giving me a "what the hell" moment. It's worded to suggest that GreyICE is not trying to speculate who protected who, but should be. What protown motive is there for this?

VOTE: UncertainKitten

[StrangerCoug]

Can you show me where I rolefished for the doctor again, SC?

I'll admit that I got you and Untrod Tripod mixed up, but I want you to comment on this:

I personally favor a ridiculous theory and a more plausible one. Ridiculous theory is CD is scum and can only shoot during the day if he foregoes a kill at night. More plausible is it was a doctor.

Why aren't you considering a town roleblocker?

And can you show me where I EVER said protection speculation is ok? [/quote]

You of course don't try to speculate about doctors/who they protected.

This is where I'm getting the impression that you're encouraging GreyICE to rolefish. I mentally put commas after "you" and "course", which gives the sentence the meaning "you should be looking for the doctor or whom was likely protected, but you're not, as if that's news to me" instead of "under no circumstances is anyone to speculate about the doctor or whom he or she protected," which makes a

LOT

better sense to me.

You're either drastically misreading things or drastically unable to comprehend the English language, SC.

Don't you

DARE

call a former copy editor unable to comprehend his native language and suggest that he read a book for toddlers. I'm insulted by you suggesting the latter.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: Well, guess what? I'm insulted by the insinuation that I can't play basic fucking mafia. So learn to read or accept that you fucked up.

You can learn word order in the meantime. "You of course don't try to speculate about doctors/who they protected" ≠ "Of course you don't try to speculate about doctors/who they protected," although it may appear to on the surface.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug. Knowing that you misinterpreted UK's post that you thought was rolefishing, are you still feeling good about your UncertainKitten vote? Do you have any other reasons to want UncertainKitten lynched today?

I wish her wording were clearer if she really did mean what she claims to have said, but I don't have anything else strong on her. I think an UNVOTE: is in order since you bring this up.

Untrod Tripod and Zang are my other suspects, but I need to read UT a bit closer. I'll continue my Day 1 push on Zang in the meantime.

VOTE: Zang

LMP, what do you think about the people saying your link to UK's meta as a SK was irrelevant because this is her town meta as well? (FWIW, I've seen her in Ladies Night as town, and she was equally tetchy at anyone who suspected her there.) Also, what made you go from having UK as your number two town read to being your top suspect?

Why aren't you considering a town roleblocker?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to rolefishing.

That was the first alternative theory to the doctor that came to mind. UncertainKitten responds to this with a good point.

[StrangerCoug]

Couple things. First, SC just moved a bit closer to the scumalicious setting on my scumdar. He seemed completely willing to go ahead with his (ill-reasoned) UK vote until Mina called him on it, then he reluctantly unvoted.

The vote still held for what I interpreted as encouraging GreyICE to rolefish. This turned into a "you can't read" vs. "you can't order your words" pissing contest. While I still feel I've won that contest, the consideration needed to be taken that UncertainKitten could indeed have meant what she was claiming to.

Second, I still think Zang might be scum (though if he is, flavor reads are essentially useless).

Wait—you think Zang could be scum, yet I'm scummy for voting him? Unless you think I'm bussing him, this makes no sense.

FoS

.

Third, how likely would it be to have both an RB and a JK?

When the hell did I bring up a jailkeeper?

[StrangerCoug]

Second, I still think Zang might be scum (though if he is, flavor reads are essentially useless).

Wait—you think Zang could be scum, yet I'm scummy for voting him? Unless you think I'm bussing him, this makes no sense.

FoS

.

I second UK's request that you learn to read.

And I reiterate my request that people make their posts clear. I interpreted the entire paragraph, not just the beginning, as an attack on me. (Though looking at it again, you

DO

have your word order straight...)

When did I say you were scummy for voting Zang, or anything about your vote for Zang? I mentioned your vote for UK.

Not

your vote for Zang.

I switched my vote from UncertainKitten to Zang, and your bringing up Zang followed your discussion of my unvote of UK. Therefore, I thought there was some sort of connection.

Third, how likely would it be to have both an RB and a JK?

When the hell did I bring up a jailkeeper?

Again, what does that comment have to do with you? I said nothing about you. I was asking "how likely would it be to have both an RB and a JK", since some people seem to be thinking there was an RB vs a doc.[/quote]
Why are you suggesting a role combination that you claim never to have seen then?

[StrangerCoug]

Because Kats flipped JK, which is essentially a take on RB, and someone suggested that the reason there was no NK last night was because of an RB, not a doc. I think the likelihood of having both a JK and an RB in the game would be low, so I wanted to know if anyone has actually seen both in one game.

If I remember SWN II correctly, it had that combo.

[StrangerCoug]

Wait—you think Zang could be scum, yet I'm scummy for voting him? Unless you think I'm bussing him, this makes no sense. FoS.

Maybe that's because your reasons for voting me are terrible.

Well, I'm not the only person that needs to learn how to read, now am I?

Reread #1020. Mariyta considers you a suspect as well. She also clarified that she never discussed my vote on you.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm having trouble figuring out what dots to connect here then. That Mariyta thinks you're scum because my vote reason sucks is absolutely ridiculous, that I'm scummy for voting you because my vote reason sucks doesn't match up with her case on me, and that I'm bussing you because my vote reason sucks would implicate both of us.

[StrangerCoug]

And how am I supposed to deduce from that that my case on you sucks?

[StrangerCoug]

...Do I exist solely to make a fool out of myself?

[StrangerCoug]

unvote, vote:zang

Zang is today's lynch. Lurking, not generating any content by himself. Only being reactive. Nos cum hunting. And one helluva lurker. I dub thee scum. Get lynched or get out.

I am lurking. How is this different than any other games I've played or earlier in this game? I don't see how I'm not generating any content. It's not like I'm wasting a whole post just to say my favorite flavor of ramen.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be a concession or a sarcastic response.

[StrangerCoug]

No time for this game right now, because I'm late for work, but this is giving me a headache. I was actually going to vote for StrangerCoug (I've been meaning to make an actual case on him), but then Zang opened his mouth and started acting like a scummy robot again.

Why are you letting that stop you? I want to hear what you have on me.

Uvnote
Vote: UK

Wake up and smell the scum folks.

HoS: LynchMePls

Wake up and smell the OMGUS, folks.

I'm liking AlmasterGM better.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm out of this demotivating game.

Mod: I hereby request replacement.

[StrangerCoug]

/me never plays larges

Sorry UT

Aww, was SWN II too much for you?

[StrangerCoug]

/me never plays larges

Sorry UT

Aww, was SWN II too much for you?

Aww, was SWN III too much for

you

?

Well, given I've imposed a one-game modding limit on myself (again) after that, that's not too far-fetched a conclusion.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't think you ever apologized for your play this game Coug, even SPYREX could not live down your play enough to avoid bullets.

If I feel I did anything uncalled for this game, it was replacing out without letting Mina answer what she thinks of me. The game was nothing but a disaster and we all know this.

[StrangerCoug]

Reliable tells on me may exist, but I can be hard to get a read on. Don't feel too bad.

[StrangerCoug]

Shoot me if I know. Fate commented in one game that I act scummy when I'm town and townie when I'm scum.

[StrangerCoug]

You were not townie in Bomb Mafia haha.

Though, Godfather was the main reason why I thought you were town this game haha.

Yeah. I used to do well as Mafia, but I lost my third game in a row as that alignment a few days ago.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: No, you just played utterly terribly, and the fact you're unrepentant it about it says a lot. Please learn to not be a useless passive...uh...something. I can't think of any descriptive word that is not incredibly insulting. Because your play sure as hell didn't deserve praise.

You have this problem all the time. You never display town intent because you NEVER DISPLAY A GOD DAMNED INTENT.

@SC: AND THAT'S A BAD THING. AS TOWN, YOU SHOULD WANT TO BE READ! YOU SHOULD WANT TO BE OBVIOUS TOWN! THE FACT YOU THINK THAT "IT BEING HARD TO GET A READ ON YOU" IS AT ALL GOOD MEANS YOU ARE A TERRIBLE
PLAYER!

If you would like to name specifics that I should improve on, then I'm willing to hear it. Otherwise, this comes off as blaming my mere presence for town's loss. More than one person's sour play made this a Mafia win.

Also, when did I say that being unable to be read is a good thing? I wasn't judging myself either way about it.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry, it read like you thought it was a good thing. No, this wasn't purely your loss, but you certainly contributed.

And you've been told. You're passive as fuck and display no intent. Here's my advice. Grow some balls.

And here's my advice to you: Calm down. Part of the reason I replaced out citing the game as "demotivating" was that the thread was pretty much the war zone it's turning back into now. Too many insults and too few decent cases.

[StrangerCoug]

So you like QuietCoug and RagingKitten, eh?

[StrangerCoug]

"Pseudo-SC and Pseudo-UK"? What do you mean?