I don't know the answer to that. But, if it'll make you feel better to see it spelled correctly,Pomegarnat wrote:Why is it that everywhere it says my name it's spelled incorrectly?
VOTE: Pomegranate
Yes, I do - Final Fires.Nikanor wrote:Does anyone have a suggestion as to whom I should vote?
Yep, that is strange. I don't know what to make of rekirtS vote even more, now.Jahudo wrote:I just noticed that Empking's signup page had 15 people /in, the #9 slot was used twice. So somehow that meant Flinter is not in the game even though she did /in?
This is bad reasoning. Even if youFinal Fires wrote:If you have to lynch me tonight then fine, but afterwards maybe you'll take my accusations seriously.
Why so insistent about telling Final Fires what to do? That surely looked like an instruction as opposed to advice to a new player.Pomegranate wrote:um, it'sRVS, SO SHUT UP
Because it was a vote on a player not in the game, it was out of the ordinary. Out of the ordinary equals worth looking at. Jahudo pointed out the /in page discrepancy but, I still wanted to hear from you about it.rekirtS wrote:Like any other RVS vote? What other info could you gain from my vote?
Yes, your response to him did provide an answer to me. However, the rest of your reason gives me pause. Repetition of this kind of play will be grounds for major suspicion from me.Pomegranate wrote:I felt that responding to his question would also provide a response to your question. And it was easier to respond to FF's statement due to the fact that it wasn't a pointed question, because those fluster me, and I usually end up doing what Ender did.
Up until this post, I was not getting a scummy read off of ender241. This post, however, reads like someone who is nervous trying very hard to reinforce the idea that their suspicious behavior should be ignored. It is also worth noting that DarlaBlueEyes supplied the excuse that ender241 is hanging his defense on.ender241 wrote:Basically i really don't know in my last game (which i have recently been killed as doc which was a newbie game) i did it alot i should really stick to my votes...
You thought wrong. You also completely avoided DarlaBlueEyes question to you earlier asking for an explanation of your bandwagon vote on Final Fires.bobsnox wrote:I thought it would be easy to infer my reasons
Who, in particular, are you willing to follow this way and what makes anyone that trustworthy this early? If ender241 seems scummy enough to pressure this way, why not vote him? This seems like a combination of ender241 and DarlaBlueEyes in one argument.Final Fires wrote:With that being said, some more experienced players whom I trust seem to be ok with you, so for now I'm holding back my vote.
Except for pointing out the discrepancy in her actions between MoreWhisky and bobsnox?brokenscraps wrote:No original thought jumping on what other people say?
I don't like the ambiguous, unsubstantiated accusation. Please clarify - with evidence.brokenscraps wrote:Don't like the low level buddying going on between some of you either.
My comment was intended to acknowledge that I agreed with them and to try to engender more support for the DarlaBlueEyes wagon. Agreeing with other players is not flattery. My vote is mine, and mine alone. I will place it where and when I see fit.brokenscraps wrote:No need to post this if you're just finding DBE scummy, especially since reskirtS was at this stage purely on Bud's track. Looks like you A) wouldn't have voted DBE if they weren't voting her and B) are using unneeded flattery.DLG wrote: I think Bub Bidderskins and rekirtS are on the right track.
That is buddying. What I wrote is not.Nikanor wrote:Don't worry Fires. I believe you.
Yes, plenty of time is left. However, I disagree with you about the value of a vote. Votes => pressure => defense => better reads. The unvote option is available for a reason, seems to me. This is a simplified model of how my read on you evolved.Final Fires wrote:We've still got a lot of time left for discussion, and at this point there's no benefit to me rushing a vote on him, especially when waiting could result in more information to make my decision.
How can he OMGUSsing you if you didn't vote him and in fact were leaning more town in your read of him? That reads like a false attack to try to make ender241 look scummier to everyone else.DarlaBlueEyes wrote:@ender is that an OMGUS I see? I think it is. If you read what I said I wasn't calling you scum I said I was leaning towards scummy more than noob town after I saw you revote out of pressure. I still was not convinced enough to vote you however. It's a contextual thing, maybe I should have made that more clear. However the more you do these obvscum things, the less I feel like I can validate my lack of a vote on you based solely on meta.keep it up and I will vote you meta or not.DLG bolding
What does this mean? How does lynching you prove anything about DarlaBlueEyes?ender241 wrote:Am i right in thinking Darla is the next suspect of kill if i'm killed? If you all think Darla's mafia feel free to take me out to give proof to everyone else about Darla.
For my part, it comes down to several things in combination.Yosarian2 wrote:Can someone who's on the wagon explain why you're voting for her again?
This was her final stance on the Final Fires early game wagon. The last part is the problem. It allows her to move either way without fear of contradicting herself. And, she can point back at this post to support whichever move is convenient.DarlaBlueEyes [i]re: Final Fires[/i] wrote:With his explanation I think I was wrong in my initial impression and Fires really is just a n00b who made a bad move, but I really see no reason to lynch him over it.Keep him on my scumdar? Yes. Lynch right away, no.
This was her initial stance towards ender241. She has vacillated between a progressively scummier read on ender241 and not voting due to her recent experience in another game with ender241. Same problems here as with what she did with Final Fires.DarlaBlueEyes [i]re: ender241[/i] wrote:Knowing what I do about Ender's META coupled with what he's done so far here, I'd say he's suffering from uber-n00b syndrome even still. That or he really just is not good at this game. Either way, I was a bit unsure whether or not to take his actions as noob or super scummy and then he re-voted seemingly only out of pressure. Now I lean more towards scum.
FoS Ender.
Aside from the bare fact of manipulating ender241 puposefully, I find the fact that DarlaBlueEyes did this for the specific purpose of scaring ender241 away from voting her to be scummy.DLG wrote:How can he OMGUSsing you if you didn't vote him and in fact were leaning more town in your read of him? That reads like a false attack to try to make ender241 look scummier to everyone else.DarlaBlueEyes wrote:@ender is that an OMGUS I see? I think it is. If you read what I said I wasn't calling you scum I said I was leaning towards scummy more than noob town after I saw you revote out of pressure. I still was not convinced enough to vote you however. It's a contextual thing, maybe I should have made that more clear. However the more you do these obvscum things, the less I feel like I can validate my lack of a vote on you based solely on meta.keep it up and I will vote you meta or not.DLG bolding
At the end, is trying to scare someone as demonstrably weak-willed as ender241 the act of a townie, or the act of a scum using fear as a weapon? I read it as the latter.
Nikanor has not provided anything real to agree with. This struck me as a desperate attempt to find someone, anyone to help build an alternative wagon.DarlaBluEyes wrote:Alright. As per your(Nikanor's)point I did an ISO of him(rekirtS).
I can only come up with three interpretations.ender241 wrote:Am i right in thinking Darla is the next suspect of kill if i'm killed? If you all think Darla's mafia feel free to take me out to give proof to everyone else about Darla.
2. You are scum, and have decided to run a gambit whereby you sacrifice yourself in order to make DarlaBlueEyes look so bad that she gets lynched on Day 2. This would require a level of sophistication that the personna you are putting forth seems incapable of.ender241 wrote:I think that as soon as i can see better reasoning i will vote again.
I guess that means your intent was option #1. And, yet, you just can't quite find it within yourself to vote for her, yourself. If your actions matched your posts, I might be tempted to believe you are sincere.ender241 wrote:I think if everyone thinks Darla is scum that it would be a wise choice to kill her, if i have to be killed for a scum to be taken out then i am willing for that to happen.
Welcome to the game.flinter wrote:And I notice my post is starting to get too long
Evidently, she won't. You absolutely need to input something.Pomegranate wrote:She will be posting on Saturday night.
Any thoughts on rekirtS if that scenario comes to pass?Bub Bidderskins wrote:If we lynch DBE and she flips town, bobsnox and whisky should be suspects number one and two.
Absolutely agree with this. Top 3 for me are DarlaBlueEyes, Nikanor, ender241.Yosarian2 wrote:At this point in the game, if I see something odd/noteworthy, I'm going to comment and question about it. On day 1, everyone should have multiple suspects and be following up on multiple leads all the time.
Welcome to the game. Look forward to your input.CryMeARiver wrote:I shall be reading up later today, glad to replace in!
DLG wrote:I want real answers from you. Not the cutesy fluff you have been posting, so far.
Unsatisfactory.Nikanor wrote:What, am I not turtle-y enough for your turtle club?
Welcome to the game. Look forward to your continued analysis.Fishythefish wrote:Prefer this to a DBE wagon, although that's by no means awful. More on both of these and some other stuff tomorrow, too tired tonight.
Welcome to the game. At least the player you are replacing left a remarkably low bar for you to exceed. ender241 looked very scummy in your slot. Can you explain this at all?Empking wrote:llamarble replaces ender
CryMeARiver wrote:No votes til I'm done with the read thru and I have officially gotten my role PM now.
Was your role PM the cause of this delay?CryMeARiver wrote:Big post is in the making.
MoreWhisky wrote:Darla and ender being scum together? wow i would have never thought of that but it seems to make sense. Top idea Bob im gona look into that more.
This is a flat out lie. The only possible explanation I can come up with is to further push the DarlaBlueEyes wagon.MoreWhisky ISO #14 Game #216 wrote:Im actually starting to believe i got it wrong about ender.
I still think hes a newbie but Darla has used this to there scum advantage. FOS ender for after we lynched Darla.
Why does Yosarian2 look scummy to you? Without amplification, that just looks like OMGUS.Llamarble wrote:Yosarian is also kind of scummy looking.
Then again Whisky is also pretty bad.
Why does everyone in this town have a lynch lined up for after Darla/Ender???
MoreWhisky started out defending your slot (ender241 then) as newbTown. He even stretched a case against Yosarian2 based on this read. After ender241 posted thisLlamarble wrote:I don't see a lie though (please explain)
both MoreWhisky and I asked what ender241 meant.ender241 Game Post #150 wrote:Am i right in thinking Darla is the next suspect of kill if i'm killed? If you all think Darla's mafia feel free to take me out to give proof to everyone else about Darla.
The clear implication is that MoreWhisky was at least considering the possible connection. MoreWhisky then concludes this line of thought with thisMoreWhisky wrote:What are you on about sir? are you sticking up for Darla? im really not sure.
MoreWhisky's final thought on the matter is that DarlaBlueEyes is teamed with ender241 and is using ender241's bad play as a cover to protect them. He then just posted thisMoreWhisky wrote:Im actually starting to believe i got it wrong about ender.
I still think hes a newbie but Darla has used this tothere scum advantage.DLG boldingFOS ender for after we lynched Darla.
My conclusion is that this is a flat contradiction and lie. The question I am left considering is what possible motive is there for this. My conclusion is that MoreWhisky was trying to strengthen the DarlaBlueEyes wagon.MoreWhisky wrote:Darla and ender being scum together? wow i would have never thought of that but it seems to make sense. Top idea Bob im gona look into that more.
I can accept your lynch because your slot is and has been in my top 3 scum reads. I would prefer a lynch of MoreWhisky to yours, but that does not seem to be happening. He will still be held accountable for his lie.Llamarble wrote:@DLG: WHY WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO ACCEPT THE LYNCH OF ANY OTHER PLAYER THAN ONE YOU CAUGHT LYING? YOUR PLAY IS CEASING TO MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE. AND WE HAVE A WEEK LEFT AND I HAVE PLENTY LEFT TO SAY, SO NOBODY HAMMER ME WITHOUT AT LEAST GIVING ME TIME TO TELL YOU WHO ALL THE SCUM ARE.
ALSO RESPOND TO MY CASE ON BIDDERSKINS; IT'S EASILY THE STRONGEST PRESENTED AGAINST ANYONE SO WHY ARE YOU IGNORING IT?
You are the only player who lost their nerve when I insisted I would place the hammer. Were your eyes sleepy and drunk when you posted this?Fishythefish wrote:I'm sure I don't want a claim or a lynch until I've given this game a look with an eye more awake and more sober than either of mine are right now.
Fishythefish wrote:ender (Llamarble)
1. I didn't like his early vote for FF. By then, I think FF looked much better, and I think ender's line of FF looking like he knew what he was doing isn't a credible line of thought. FF's story of being thrown by coming from another rings really true, and I don't see how you could interpret it as scummy. After unvoting, not voting again until it was pointed out might betray that he was thinking more about his image than about his target or what his vote will do. Which is a little bit scummy - townies think about both.
2. His post 150 - "feel free to lynch me to show Darla's scum". You see these kind of appeals, usually from noobtown. But this one really doesn't ring true. When you see this from town, it is from tunnelled town who have shouted themselves hoarse about the object of their tunnel, to no avail. ender, on the other hand, had given DBE a middling FOS, since when he had voted MW for his reasons for voting DBE. This doesn't add up. He explains with "I think if everyone thinks Darla is scum that it would be a wise choice to kill her, if i have to be killed for a scum to be taken out then i am willing for that to happen." That doesn't sit well with me. If he doesn't really think DBE is scum, there's just no way that can feel like a good trade from where he's standing.
3. After an absence, ender comes back and throws an accusation at bob, a popular target at the time, for no stated reason, and does not vote him. A move which scum might well have made (it's a shame we can't ask him why).
...
On the scale of day 1 certainty, I think it's quite likely exactly one of Darla and ender is scum. I think the ender wagon feels more like a scumwagon - difficult to get going, not so many easy votes on it. Reading the game thinking "the scum don't want ender lynched" feels better than reading it thinking "the scum don't want Darla lynched". I think good reasons for voting ender have attracted remarkably little attention, which you wouldn't expect if the rival wagon was on scum. So I'm leaning ender, and my vote stays there.
Llamarble wrote:It's not as if ANYTHING AT ALL happened between me stating a read and updating it that would provide a scummotive to flipflop.
Very next post.Llamarble wrote:Still rereading ISOs and stuff, but I don't like the DBE wagon.
What happened, the only thing that happened, in between these two was a vote-count which showed DarlaBlueEyes with 6 votes. Scum motive to flip-flop? Blend into the crowd. Don't stand out. Stay off the radar.Llamarble wrote:Huh, maybe I was totally wrong on my first pass and Darla is actually scum. I don't see much attempt to figure out who the scum are coming from her; she seems to care more about convincing others not to vote her. On meta perusal I can see her being scum, but it's not very clear. How soon is the deadline? I need to read more.
Except, you already knew what the basis of the case was.Llamarble wrote:I'm going to go back and look for the case against Ender now and try to deal with it.
This was just a buy some more time strategy.Llamarble wrote:I can see how Ender attracted some votes; he doesn't really make sense to me, especially the lynch me so Darla can die next stuff without a particular read on Darla. I'll just have to redeem this slot by CATCHING ALL THE SCUMS MWAHAHA!
Based on the fact that he posted an objection to Bub Bidderskins play before you subsumed it as part of your "best case against anyone" in the game so far?Llamarble wrote:Okay this Bobsnox guy looks town.
I didn't ignore it. I read it and wasn't impressed.Llamarble wrote:Ignoring a case against someone because you have a townread on them is ridiculous.
I find begging to stall town momentum the move of a player who replaced into a scum slot that was played horribly by the first occupant.llamarble wrote:We have more time and as I have only had a couple of days to get caught up I find quicklynching me to be the move of scared scum.
It isn't even really yours, though.Llamarble wrote:ALSO RESPOND TO MY CASE ON BIDDERSKINS
Add to this bobsnox's critique of Bub Bidderskins and we haveFishythefish wrote:The way BB is already blaming other people on his wagon makes me feel he knows it's a mislynch (157 and 200) and is already trying to shift the blame.
Everyone recognizes thatLlamarble wrote:Lawl @ DLG "SOMEBODY QUICKHAMMER PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE BEFORE HE FINDS US ALL SO I CAN LYNCH YOU REAL EASY TOMORROW HEHEHE"
Your reliance on an invalid defense of players trying to quickhammer is scummy. The contradiction between you posting a significant amount of content and claiming players are trying to quickhammer you is scummy. I want to lynch you because you and your slot look scummy enough to justify doing it.Llamarble wrote:I've produced more content in 3 days than most players in this entire game. Why do you want to lynch me again?
When you steal my arguments that highlight scummy behavior and try to turn them against me, at least use them properly. I have done nothing that could remotely be considered strongarming anyone. Either provide evidence or admit you misrepresented this and explain why you did so.Fishythefish wrote:DLG is massively trying to strongarm a Llama quicklynch. Very disturbing, considering Llama was his third option not long ago, and the others (DBE, MW) are possible lynches.
Two weeks is plenty of time to have enough content to make reads solid enough to be willing to lynch. Llamarble claims to have posted as much or more content as everyone else. Therefore, lynching him does not qualify as a quicklynch.Fishythefish wrote:The contradiction (?) between Llama posting content and accusing people of trying to quicklynch him. Not sure I understand this, but that's what it says.
For the sake of argument, assume Bub Bidderskins is scum. Since we do not know the set-up is confined to scum vs. town, Bub Bidderskins as scum does not guarantee Llamarble is town. That is the falsehood Llamarble is selling. Why are you so gullible as to buy it? On the flip side, Llamarble's claim to be town does not make Bub Bidderskins scum for attacking him.Fishythefish wrote:Llama basing an argument on BB knowing he was town. That's a line of argument used all the time. It's a common scumtell that scum know what flips are going to be, and going after Llama for using it is totally ridiculous.
This is tripe.Fishythefish wrote:At this stage of the day, bandwagons are good if and only if they are on scum. If Llamarble flips Vanilla Townie - which I think he will - this day is afailure. The information from his lynch is not nearly enough to make up for lynching town.
I think we'd all appreciate some valid input from you. Please follow through.Nikanor wrote:I don't want anyone to hammer until that scummy lurker Nikanor gets a chance to weigh in.
You read ender241 as scum. You voted him. Therefore, you must be scum for attacking such a townie slot. That is the same argument that Llamarble is using against Bub Bidderskins.Fishythefish wrote:I don't understand the first sentence here. I don't see how any of my reasoning says that.
That is not what I said. Here is what I said.Jahudo wrote:says llarmable flip-flopped on Daria because she hadn't done anything between his posts to warrant a flop
For reference, look at Game Posts #275 - #277.DLG wrote:What happened, the only thing that happened, in between these two was a vote-count which showed DarlaBlueEyes with 6 votes. Scum motive to flip-flop? Blend into the crowd. Don't stand out. Stay off the radar.
Remove the bolded portions and I could accept it was sarcasm. With them, however, this was not sarcasm. I believe this lie was the single scummiest thing in the game so far. His continued refusal to even acknowledge there is a question surrounding it supports my belief he is scum. FinalFires has caught him contradicting himself several other times. Par for the course, MoreWhisky simply ignores these charges in the hopes they will go away.MoreWhisky wrote:Darla and ender being scum together? wow i would have never thought of thatbut it seems to make sense.Top idea Bobim gona look into that more.
This is the same backdoor "logic" that Fishythefish used as part of his justification for voting ender241 over DarlaBlueEyes. It completely ignores the fact that a group of townies can see scumminess and be unwilling to be distracted.Llamarble wrote:I feel like there should be all kinds of scum on Bub's wagon by now if it's a mislynch. I would be the easiest D2mislynch ever, and I've provided PLENTY of justification for people to jump on the Bublynch.
*Checks*
Just fishy, who looks highly protown these days.
Yes, up for anything that would keep the town fractured. Why is your motivation so anti-town?Fishythefish wrote:I don't see it is any more likely than a BB lynch, and I'm up for either about equally.
Your play looks scummy if Llamarble is scum. Your play is anti-town for helping to destroy what consensus had been achieved. This is particularly true becauseFishythefish wrote:Please explain how my play is "antitown". AFAIC, my play is antitown if and only if Llamarble is scum. It is not automatically antitown to try and derail a lynch that looks like happening. Cohesiveness =/= scum lynch. I saw a consensus I strongly disliked the origins of, so I went after it.
@DLG: I made a post where I criticised every (or nearly every, not sure) reason for which you have voted Llama. You have made no response.
"We should be cohesive" is not a reason to lynch, it is a necessary component to achieving that goal. Therefore, any wagon which results in a lynch is cohesive. Townie ones and scummy ones. Lynching scum is always the goal, and the best possible outcome. But, what is always gained in any lynch is information which is what town lacks.Llamarble wrote:How is "We should be cohesive" a good reason to lynch somebody AT ALL? Scum have a bunch of votes that they want to use together to get somebody lynched. Therefore scummy wagons are often "cohesive." It is obviously much easier for scum to agree than for town. The most important goal of a lynch by far is to kill scum.
I agree. But, that is not what he said and that is what I was pointing out.Llamarble wrote:AND DLG FISHY DOES DISLIKE THE LATECOMERS (BUB BIDDERSKINS WAS L-2)
I disagree with your count. By my count, we are at L-2 on both MoreWhisky and Llamarble.FinalFires wrote:I might be wrong, but I think that's L-1. Would anyone be opposed if I go ahead and hammer? This deadline is getting too close and I'm afraid waiting much longer might result in another derailed bandwagon.
Nope. You missed SK. Four ways. 50/50.Fishythefish wrote:Currently there are 3 ways for Llama to be scum -
- There is one scumteam, and Llama is on it.
- There are two scumteams, and Llama is on scumteam A.
- There are two scumteams, and Llama is on scumteam B.
Suppose the mod came down and declared in a voice of thunder that BB was scum, and Llama was not his partner. Then two of these three possibilities disappear. Just because it is still possible that Llama is scum, doesn't mean that it is just as likely as it was before.
Not the same thing.brokenscraps wrote:The world either ends tomorrow or it doesn't, therefore there is a 50% chance of the world ending tomorrow.
Oh, come on! A PR claim that has absolutely nothng to do with the little of bit of flavor we've been provided.MoreWhisky wrote:lol i never voted myself.
Ok im an undercover cop with a difference, im joining the escaped prisoners tonight as a prisoner traitor. now they know im screwed thats why i asked for doc protection tonight. So i will realise the name of the head prisoner who has a NK. I wont release the name of the second unless i get doc protection tonight.
Vote Darla
Now you may understand my behaviour more. At last something for you all to get your teeth into. Been loads of spam guys!
Are you given to running entirely misrepresented cases against other players as town?Fishythefish wrote:Why is that?
VOTE: DLG
Extremely poor vote on Llama, which he refused to defend. Cannot be explained by tunnelling; he never had Llama as the most scummy player. See my ISO for details; this guy is scum.
How did you know MoreWhisky's conclusion was correct regarding FinalFires? We all know that, now. But, at that point, how did you know?Fishythefish wrote:Didn't like MW's very first content post (iso 1), fencesitting on FF. However, in iso 2 he comes down on the right side of the fence, saying that FF's explanation was believable.
How about I just go ahead and do the work for you?Fishythefish wrote:I'm not ignoring this, I just don't have time to respond now. It's going to need quotes. I think it's pretty clear if people read my ISO.
Despite your lack of a request for a response, I postedFishythefish wrote:DLG is massively trying to strongarm a Llama quicklynch. Very disturbing, considering Llama was his third option not long ago, and the others (DBE, MW) are possible lynches. Points he's since used against Llama:
- Saying he doesn't want to be quickhammered, and that people pushing that line are scummy.
- The contradiction (?) between Llama posting content and accusing people of trying to quicklynch him. Not sure I understand this, but that's what it says.
- Not having an entirely original case on BB.
- Saying he's "go back and look for the case on ender" when he's already mentioned ender.
- Accuses Llama of trying to stall the momentum of the town by asking for a couple of day.
- Changing mind during read of game.
- Llama basing an argument on BB knowing he was town. That's a line of argument used all the time. It's a common scumtell that scum know what flips are going to be, and going after Llama for using it is totally ridiculous.
These points are awful. DLG is trying to throw absolutely anything he can find at Llama.
So, I directly responded to your main point, your first two points which were related, and your last point. 3 out of 6. What was I supposed to say about the others? Fishythefish says these points areDLG wrote:When you steal my arguments that highlight scummy behavior and try to turn them against me, at least use them properly. I have done nothing that could remotely be considered strongarming anyone. Either provide evidence or admit you misrepresented this and explain why you did so.
Yes, this slot was third on my list of preference. There was not enough variance between the three to prevent me from being willing to hammer the one that made it to L-1.
Could you please describe how being willing to hammer a slot that you believe is scum is wrong?
...
Two weeks is plenty of time to have enough content to make reads solid enough to be willing to lynch. Llamarble claims to have posted as much or more content as everyone else. Therefore, lynching him does not qualify as a quicklynch.
...
For the sake of argument, assume Bub Bidderskins is scum. Since we do not know the set-up is confined to scum vs. town, Bub Bidderskins as scum does not guarantee Llamarble is town. That is the falsehood Llamarble is selling. Why are you so gullible as to buy it? On the flip side, Llamarble's claim to be town does not make Bub Bidderskins scum for attacking him.
How can you start a post by repsonding to my responses and then actually claim I didn't defend my points? And, how can you possibly be trying to sell that horseshit now?Fishythefish wrote:@DLG:
Re: "strongarming". You're quite right - I picked that term up from a post of BB's and it's the wrong one. Doesn't change the points; you're pushing a wagon very hard for very poor reasons, and trying to get a lynch quickly.
Re: "quicklynching". It's not about how much content Llama has produced, it's about how much he's currently producing, and what's happening. Here's why I think it's bad for you to threaten to hammer: even if Llama were equal with DBE and MW, you should want to firm up your reads on all of them, particularly when the others are possible lynches. It's not natural to just go after one candidate and threaten to lynch him immediately.
Re: BBscum -/> Llamatown. Quite right, actually, I have been making that assumption and it's a bad one. It doesn't change all that much. A terrible wagon does make Llama more likely town, and BB's attacks are still incredibly scummy. You don't address my actual point here. Llama said BB was scum for knowing Llama was town. You said that makes no sense because BB wouldn't know that. But scum do assume other people are town, and it's common to use that as a scumtell. I was criticising your point against Llama.
....
You haven't defended any of your points on Llama.
Game Post #435 I responded here.Fishythefish wrote:@DLG: I made a post where I criticised every (or nearly every, not sure) reason for which you have voted Llama. You have made no response.
Are we done with this, yet? I absolutely renew my point that your case on me is bunk.DLG wrote:I responded to the points I wanted to. I didn't respond to the others because I was unwilling to engage in a debate designed solely to distract attention from the main focus, Llamarble. Classifying what was going on as you versus me perfectly illustrates the point. It was me versus Llamarble if it was anything. Who appointed you Johnnie Cochran to Llamarble's O.J. Simpson?
My first impression was the second reason. After re-reading, though, I'll say that both are bad. It actually started here.Jahudo wrote:Do you think his reasons are unjustified in his vote post? Or is it more about him settling on a target that he was defending before that?
This looks like a transition post to set-up his vote move.Fishythefish ISO #21 wrote:Wagons, in order of how much I like them:
BB = DLG (horrible jumps onto Llama)
DBE (nothing much has changed - still pretty scummy)
Llama (much better information lynch than others, and could definitely be scum if we are in multiscum or I'm wrong about BB/DLG)
MW (really only scummy if Llama is scum)
This was posted on February 3rd. For a player who was so adamantly pushing the quicklynch is scummy line, I don't understand why he felt he had to be on one of the two biggest wagons with two days left. A much more natural response would have been something like, "Please reconsider. I will only vote Llamarble or MoreWhisky to prevent no-lynch." Plus, the whole tone of the post is still defending Llamarble. These things do not add up.Fishythefish ISO #22 wrote:Deadline has got too close for me not to be on one of the biggest two wagons. With a heavy heart,
Well, you and the whole damn town were reading FinalFires as town. Not quite so scintillating in that light is it? And, when you had that little interaction with MoreWhisky just prior to him being lynched, here's what you said.Llamarble wrote:My reads are 2/2 so far. I'm starting to feel like Cassandra.
Llamarble wrote:I may not have access enough to vote in time tomorrow and lynching 40%scum60%PR (normally it'd be more like 60%scum but I dropped the percentage due to my read) is better than lynching 100% VT.
No. I never said anything about you would rather lynch MoreWhisky than yourself. My point was that you came out describing yourself as an oracle, when the FinalFires read was one everyone seemed to share and your more MoreWhisky read was not as strong as you implied in that post. I particularly note how you tried to use this flim-flam to support your Bub Bidderskins case.Llamarble wrote:WHAT. YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OF NOT HAVING A TOWNREAD ON WHISKEY BECAUSE I SAID I WOULD RATHER LYNCH HIM THAN MYSELF?? THAT IS RIDICULOUS. I specifically stated in the sentence you quoted that I had a town read on him which was weakened by his PRclaim, which turned out to be fake anyway.
Let's be clear, although I know you want things blurry. I didn't think you were genuinely scum hunting after a night with 1 kill. I thought that before the night phase. How about the rest of that post that you truncated?Llamarble wrote:ONE PERSON DIED LAST NIGHT. THEREFORE GENUINE SCUM HUNTING PROBABLY MEANS TOWN. BUT IN SPITE OF THINKING I'M GENUINELY HUNTING FOR SCUM AFTER A NIGHT WITH 1 KILL, YOU STILL VOTE ME???
DLG wrote:I can't vote in two places at once, and the vast majority of my suspicion of Llamarble rests on my ender241 read. I think Llamarble's case on Bub Bidderskins is sincere. I think it a case of genuine scum hunting from a scum slot. That would mean a multi-faction game, and while there is a possibility of that, there is no guarantee of it.
So there is no misunderstanding, I will have no hesitation hammering Llamarble if his wagon goes back to L-1. But, of the two, I think there is less reason to doubt that MoreWhisky is scum.
And because I called BS on your brag post. Convenient for you to try to shift the focus onto the easier to defend accusation.Llamarble wrote:The reason we are talking about whether I had a townread on Whisky or not is because Bub claimed I "Tried to push my wagon onto Morewhisky."
My point had nothing to do with you accepting reality. My point was that for the champion of "quicklynch is scummy" (you) to settle in on the player you had given so much effort to defending with 2 days left until deadline is contradictory. I could easily accept that you would vote Llamarble to prevent no-lynch at deadline. But, that was not the case when you voted him.Fishythefish wrote:@DLG: with the opinions in the game, there was zero chance of a DLG or BB lynch in the time we had. Llama was the best option who might get lynched. Denying that would have done no good.
Re: why only you and BB. Your votes were the worst. BB has the added bonus that he's the obvious reason scum would want to go after Llama (Llama was attacking him).
ender241's first vote was for those reasons. His second vote had absolutely no reasoning attached. Except the inexplicable note that while he thought something was bobsnox, he'd rather vote FinalFires.Llamarble wrote:All I saw was Ender's votes on FF. Which while wrong apparently were due to FF playing the newbcard and softclaiming.
Welcome to the game, Fate.Fate wrote:Afternoon town,
My name is Fate, nice to meet you.
I'll be in here with a stream of thought catch-up post that nails likely 75% of the scumteam and reasons with. As for when, I guarantee by Wednesday, but I'll get started tonight.
Thank you for your time.