Mafia 124 - Dilemma Mafia (Day 6)

[DarlaBlueEyes]

/confirm

and

Vote Albie

because I missed you!!!

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Awww Darla....!

How have you been? We are even ICing together all of a sudden. So pleasent

I have been good. Getting older. Way older >.> However I am not quite prepared to put myself on the same tier as you IC-wise. xD I remember that one game....the Large Normal. *shivers*

also

unvote

vote Yos

for not confirming in yet!

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Unvote: Yosari

Actually, now that I think about it, killing him off might not be such a good idea. (I assume) if he remains inactive he'll eventually be modkilled - lynching him would be a waste of our execution. And even if he's not modkilled, he won't be using any of his powers. As it is, he'll just have no influence on the game, and he's not worth killing off.

In a game of this size, is it safe to assume that there are about 3 mafia, give or take? I think it's pretty suspicious that three people have voted for him, without a lot of reasoning, while everyone else has just voted randomly. This is my first mafia game on this board, so I'm not sure how communication works between the mafia here. I've looked into a few other games here and it seems like suspicion is always cast on those people who try to draw out the first day - although I admit I don't completely understand why.

People who voted for Yos: Albert, Whiskey, Darla, and Me
People who haven't posted yet: Brokenscraps, Yosarian2

Now, I can promise you guys that I'm not scum, and I wouldn't bring up this point and cast suspicion on myself if I was. So if we eliminate my name from that list of yos. Both of those lists seem like they might be viable as the teams of mafia. Here's what I propose we do. Tonight we vote off one person who voted for yos - if they're innocent, let the other two go. If they're scum, pick off the other two. If tonight's execution is an innocent, then we move on to the next list of people. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Like I said earlier though, this is my first game of mafia here and I could've made a huge logical fallicy somewhere. But as of now, it seems like that's the best lead that we've got. If anyone else has a better idea, or the people who voted for Yos have a good explanation, I would be glad to change my vote.

Vote: Albert

lol.

Okay. Obv n00b is obv.

Though I am getting scummy vibes off that entire post, I want a little more evidence before I throw in a vote and make a bandwagon. Though he's at the top of my list already.

Here's a (not so pro) tip: promising you're not scum and expecting that to be enough = not gonna work.


Edit: Grahg! Ninja'd. Damn my distract-able self.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Noob town /=/ powerful townie. Beyond that I don't like your play at all, and your backtracking explanations don't sit well with me either. I'd have rather your vote sat on Yos than you act like you had some kind of mega-game-winning revelation in which you declare yourself 100% town and everyone else who's enjoying some RVS shenanigans scummy.

Or I guess I could just reference Pom's post and say: QFT!

Also the more you force that you're town in such a way that you expect us to just take your word for it, the more I am inclined to believe you are scum.

@ Broken - yes I went back and edited it to account for the votes already on him so as not to sound redundant or need an EBWOP. Originally I had said something like 'before I vote him' but amended it to be the bandwagon bit.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Yos has confirmed in. My RVS reasoning is null.

unvote

With his explanation I think I was wrong in my initial impression and Fires really is just a n00b who made a bad move, but I really see no reason to lynch him over it. Keep him on my scumdar? Yes. Lynch right away, no.

I wanna hear from Ender (only confirmed and nothing else) and Bob - could you maybe give a little more reason for your blatant bandwagoning vote thrown into a fluff post plz? I am not sure to what exactly you're referring with post #42 ?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Knowing what I do about Ender's META coupled with what he's done so far here, I'd say he's suffering from uber-n00b syndrome even still. That or he really just is not good at this game. Either way, I was a bit unsure whether or not to take his actions as noob or super scummy and then he re-voted seemingly only out of pressure. Now I lean more towards scum.

FoS Ender.

@Ender what are your thoughts on people BESIDES Fires?

@Whiskey what exactly about Yos' post was scummy to you? Elaborate plz.



@

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EBWOP: gotta go out, will finish this post/thought later tonight

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I have a very good reason to not vote ender based on his play thanks to a newbie game we were/are in together. It's his meta. He seems scum when he's not. He's just really nooby, and while I am ~recognizing~ his scum-haviour, I am also noting that for once I have reliable meta on a player and can say that I do not intend to make the mistake of assuming his noobness to be scumness without more solid proof.

And last but not least...

That bought out the scummy behaviour , my vote on Yos stands.

What is this supposed to mean?

Two of you asked this.

I brought out alot of the newbie behaviour (post61) that ender was doing , which 2 of you have agreed he was making, but ended the post saying im sure hes just a newbie but most probaly town. Yos jumped on the points i made trying, i believe, to start a BW . Having already marked down Yos as scum , hence my already vote on him, i made this comment.

^^^^ This I don't understand. A. Are you claiming you set up the ender situation, or taking credit for his behavior? Because comments like that make me think that this is a premeditated scum move. (It's been awhile since I did a large normal, do scum usually get day talk?) If they do, I can see this as a slip, plus distancing. B. Why have you marked Yos scum prior to your vote on him? Maybe I am misunderstandign your wording here, but if you had a case on him, why is this the first we're hearing of it? and what about him besides his vote on ender to you find scummy? Because several other people voted ender too, why not look at them? What's your read on the other members of the ender-wagon?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

11. Yosarian2

(2)

- MoreWhisky

Mod: You may want to fix that.

Darla once again shows that she is willing to point out scummy behavior but not willing to act on her observations. That non-commitant conservative play indicates scum to me.

@Darla: If you don't really think that ender is scummy, then who do you think is scummy at this point?

@ender: What was it about rekirtS' post that made you want to revote Final Fires?

So far I am not getting incredibly strong OMGSCUM vibes from anybody, but I have a good deal of suspicion building on Whiskey in these last few posts.

I am still not happy with Whiskey's explanation - he seems to be avoiding actually answering for what he said, and completely ignored my post.

@Whiskey please answer this post: #77

Until you do,

Vote Whiskey

- answers please.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

sorry guys on phone here, gonna try to get to what I can see

@DLG - My stance on ender is simply Meta. The other game we participated in he acted exactly the same, blatant scum moves, and ended up we killed our doc due to other factors which I don't want to elaborate on due to the game being on going. If you want to see it yourself it's Newbie #1045. I am not disregarding his actions but I know this is how he plays as town, and granted I haven't seen him as scum either, I honestly just see him as a n00b and do not like his wagon. My guess is that we have at least one if not two scum on that wagon because he's made himself the perfect target for a scum push. As for Fires I don't know, I just get a noob vibes off him. Between he and ender I'd be more inclined to do an ender lynch, but again, I would need something more blatant from him to make me think he wasn't actually town given the meta I have.

Whiskey - thank you for elaborating and to everyone jumping on me for using a vote to get that answer out of him, pardon me if I felt that something needed to be done to get his attention since he ignored me twice

unvote

I am still not sure what Whiskey sees as so scummy about Yos, and not Bob / Jahudo who're also on the ender wagon, but it's worthy of a look back at Yos' posts for me. Maybe he's seeing something I'm not, (although it'd be helpful if he articulated it more clearly if he is town.)

Right now I'd like to see more from Albie. So far his posts have been primarily fluff, o/t or one or two lines.

more coming when i am not on my phone. and apologies if autocorrect did anything wonky in this post, no time to check it.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

still on phone sorrrry guys. busy night, don't think i am gonna make it home.

@ender is that an OMGUS I see? I think it is. If you read what I said I wasn't calling you scum I said I was leaning towards scummy more than noob town after I saw you revote out of pressure. I still was not convinced enough to vote you however. It's a contextual thing, maybe I should have made that more clear. However the more you do these obvscum things, the less I feel like I can validate my lack of a vote on you based solely on meta. keep it up and I will vote you meta or not.

@Broken i will go back and try to find bud's post and do a reply from here, but it might have to wait until the morning

[DarlaBlueEyes]

My guess is that we have at least one if not two scum on that wagon because he's made himself the perfect target for a scum push.

Like who? You can't just throw out comments like this! Who do you feel could be scum on his wagon? Maybe you were gonna give more if not on your phone but who do you feel is scummy on that wagon?

Furthermore the only person who you do name as suspicious is Albie, who wasn't even on the ender lynch! (not that I disagree he needs to post more material).

I am getting quite tired of people either not taking the time to actually read and understand my posts or purposefully misconstrue them. I did not say I was suspicious of Albie. I said I wanted to hear more form him. As for the scum on the wagon, if I knew/suspected one person in general I'd be voting for them. I just think that ender's play has made him the perfect target for the scum to tunnel in on him, and hey for all I know he IS scum. His play has gotten progressively worse and his defenses weaker and more hostile-emotional. I'm coming to the conclusion that I can't keep to my meta and dismiss him completely. (I have never actually had meta on a player before now, so I am not 100% certain of how much it can be trusted, but given how I obtained that meta, I am hesitant.)

sorry guys on phone here, gonna try to get to what I can see

@DLG - My stance on ender is simply Meta. The other game we participated in he acted exactly the same, blatant scum moves, and ended up we killed our doc due to other factors which I don't want to elaborate on due to the game being on going. If you want to see it yourself it's Newbie #1045. I am not disregarding his actions but I know this is how he plays as town, and granted I haven't seen him as scum either, I honestly just see him as a n00b and do not like his wagon. My guess is that we have at least one if not two scum on that wagon because he's made himself the perfect target for a scum push. As for Fires I don't know, I just get a noob vibes off him. Between he and ender I'd be more inclined to do an ender lynch, but again, I would need something more blatant from him to make me think he wasn't actually town given the meta I have.

Whiskey - thank you for elaborating and to everyone jumping on me for using a vote to get that answer out of him, pardon me if I felt that something needed to be done to get his attention since he ignored me twice

unvote

I am still not sure what Whiskey sees as so scummy about Yos, and not Bob / Jahudo who're also on the ender wagon, but it's worthy of a look back at Yos' posts for me. Maybe he's seeing something I'm not, (although it'd be helpful if he articulated it more clearly if he is town.)

Right now I'd like to see more from Albie. So far his posts have been primarily fluff, o/t or one or two lines.

more coming when i am not on my phone. and apologies if autocorrect did anything wonky in this post, no time to check it.

I really dont like this post you seem to be all over that place finding someone to pin the scum tag on. I also dont like how u ask someone a question about there actions on other players, normally this is sort of ok but here im sure this is another tactic to deflect the chat from you.

And whats all this phone business? we all have stuff to do. have some more time on the phone

vote Darla

Okay, seriously I don't understand this post. Maybe it's just a communication problem here but why exactly is it usually okay to question another player's actions (scum hunting) but when I do it it's simply deflecting? Please prove this to me. Point it out if you're going to make such grand accusations. If you want people to sheep your opinion or bandwagon on me or any other lynch canidate you have got to make a better case than that.

and I would like to kindly ask that you don't use personal hindrances (IE being on my phone) as an excuse to use against me in game. It's not really any of your concern and it was posted only to inform people of my lack of ability to apply content within those posts.

Also just a side note, I really dislike this post:

I voted for Jahudo because he's such a cool guy! DLG gets scumpoints for pointing out my lurking.
Unvote.
Striker's posting isn't making me feel too good.
Vote: rekirtS.

He mentions 3 people, and then votes rekirts after not mentioning him at all? wtf?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

forgot:

vote Nikanor

Edit: Ninja'd

@Whiskey You're seriously pulling at threads here. If someone announces they're V/LA for being sick will you use that a case against them as being scum too? Please understand the difference between comments made within the game and comments made to inform others of activity level changes no matter how great or small.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

the OMGUS doesn't have to be due to a vote. It can be due to any sort of suspicion being cast on a person. I FoS'd him and he came back with a very weak reply and FoS'd me. I am not disagreeing with you that he is weak-willed, but I am not apologizing for calling him out on his increasingly scummy behavior, and even though I didn't vote him based on his meta, I won't treat him with kid gloves or ignore his progressively more scummy actions. However at this point in time I find Nika far more scummy than Ender.

As for the non-comital, I am a cautious person and if you'd go skim that newbie game i referenced, you might see why i was even more cautious than usual regarding ender and his scummy-play-even-as-town meta. Granted That wont be a free-for-all pass for him, and I am interested in him hanging. I think we have bigger fish to fry right now, like Nikanor for instance. Nika could you please elaborate on WHY you voted Rek, and what about Striker makes you feel 'not good' and why you didn't vote him for whatever reason that was?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EBWOP wtf it didn't tell me more posts had been made -

@Whiskey I cannot control my access to a computer or the fact that my phone sucks anymore than a person can control being sick - you think maybe you could scum hunt based on actual leads rather than sit here and bicker over my personal problems?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

@ Bob care to explain that at all? Or are you just bandwagoning without explanation?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

EBWOP:

@Broken - doh. I did not realize that RekirtStriker thing. fml. Okay, it makes more sense now. Carry on people.

unvote

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I wanted to know why you casted suspicion on someone and then voted a different person without reason - clearly I was being a herpderp and didn't realize you weren't doing that at all.

and my own points!

A. Ta I like my avatar too.
B. Could you elaborate a bit more in-depth on your reason for voting striker/rekirts and detail what about his posting makes you feel not good? If you've got a lead here please to share it with the rest of us.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Alright. As per your point I did an ISO of him. There were hardly any posts so I will quote here.

/confirm

Hi all, haven't played a game with any of you.

Vote: Flinter

wee.

RVS - nothing special

I just noticed that Empking's signup page had 15 people /in, the #9 slot was used twice. So somehow that meant Flinter is not in the game even though she did /in?

Thank you I was wondereing where I pulled that name from.

Yep, that is strange. I don't know what to make of rekirtS vote even more, now.

Like any other RVS vote? What other info could you gain from my vote?

Vote: Ender241

FinalFires is obviously noob.

Second post, nothing too worrisome except his certainty that Fires is town without much elaboration

Why haven't you revoted him if hes not in any danger of getting lynched? Hmmm...?

Third post directed @ Ender who revoted right after. Possible leading? Maybe.

Mr. Bub brings up a very good observation. I had been uncomfortable with Darla's reasoning about Ender, and missed that he did the exact same thing about Final.

Unvote; Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Sheeping a vote on me based on Bud's points and his uncomfortableness with me which he has made NO MENTION OF whatsoever so far.

^^^ She not he, my bad.

Next post, pointless but I am being fair and including everything in the iso.

VOTE: DarlaBlueEyes

DarlaBlueEyes's stance on ender241 is extremely wishy-washy. She has not provided reason for pushing the Final Fires wagon without being willing to vote. She used MoreWhisky's not answering her question as reason to vote him, but did not find bobsnox doing the same thing even worth noting.

I think Bub Bidderskins and rekirtS are on the right track.

Townie points for you, at first I was a little suspicious of you but I've found myself agreeing with these last two points. DarlaBlueEyes was definately wishy woshy.

I am still not happy with Whiskey's explanation - he seems to be avoiding actually answering for what he said, and completely ignored my post.

@Whiskey please answer this post: #77

Until you do,

Vote Whiskey

- answers please.

Wait so you're only voting until you get an answer? For someone who initially hadn't voted yet on either of her two scummy vibes but shes voting because Whiskey missed a question?

Lynch this scummy scum.

Criticizing my ScumHunting without doing any scum hunting of his own whatsoever.

My guess is that we have at least one if not two scum on that wagon because he's made himself the perfect target for a scum push.

Like who? You can't just throw out comments like this! Who do you feel could be scum on his wagon? Maybe you were gonna give more if not on your phone but who do you feel is scummy on that wagon?

Furthermore the only person who you do name as suspicious is Albie, who wasn't even on the ender lynch! (not that I disagree he needs to post more material).

Here is where he misconstrue's my post (whether purposefully or not, I do not know, but my post was not that complex. I said I wanted to hear more from ABR and he is suddenly accusing me of calling Albie scum.)

Oops good thing you quoted me Broken, I went back and saw DLG had said DarkBlueEyes was wishy woshy with her stance on Ender, rather than her first vote on Whiskey which is what I found wishy-woshy. Oops.

Original thoughts? Although not until after my vote... later on I said "Wait so you're only voting until you get an answer? For someone who initially hadn't voted yet on either of her two scummy vibes but shes voting because Whiskey missed a question?", which seems original enough.

You have absolutely no other thoughts on Dark though? Just 'meh' and 'ehhh... don't know'. NOTHING?

Hypocrite alert. He's claiming his originality and scum-hunting based on one single post of his questiong me for scum hunting, and acting as if he has been doing so all along when his ISO clearly states otherwise. Also. My name is DARLA!!!!!!1111

I voted for Jahudo because he's such a cool guy! DLG gets scumpoints for pointing out my lurking.

Unvote.

Striker's posting isn't making me feel too good.

Vote: rekirtS.

Doesn't make you feel good? lol. examples?

and his last post, can't complain too much about this seeing as how I had the same questions.

----

All in all I'd say that was some pretty shoddy ISO, even if we are on page six, others have been much more helpful and contributing to the town. Rekirts - more content nao plz. Who else do you find scummy besides me? And what do you think about me is scummy. Something other than you sheeping off everyone else's posts and bandwagonning?

Right now I am not too fond of Whiskey or Striker/Rekirts and both probably look a bit OMGUSy of me but their play thus far has been pretty smelly. I am going to do an ISO of Whiskey too before I decide where my vote is going.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Hi everyone

vote Yosarian2

lets get rid of any potential multis

RVS - Nothing special here

Final fires you got to laugh how your reasoning has everyone apart from you who voted for Yos as most probaly the scum, we just started. If the game was a bit older you would have my vote for that.

His only real reaction to the FF post of doom. Notice his suspicion.

I find Fires reason for his earlier post about the voters on Yos believable, it is day one and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Reading between the lines of Jahudos last post I actually find him more scummy for trying to keep the discussion on Fires going, especially after his earlier post he said he wasnt getting a scummy vibe of Fires.

And here we go, next post, just a few down, and he's suddenly on Fire's side - trying to end and call scum on Jah investingating a legitimate possible scumslip on Fires' part

Ender i dont understand you behaviour , who is the nOOb? You started with,

I'm going to VOTE: FinalFires this is because the "powerful townie" hint suggests to me that he's making people not want to vote him just incase he's a power role something mafia would do at the moment. The noob trick isn't a good sign either, everyone is told that if they've never done a mafia game to do a noob game and he plays like he knows what to do.

then straight away unvoted because he was a newbie which was one of the reasons u voted for him

UNVOTE: Finalfires It's way to early to lynch so i'm going to unvote just incase he is a newbie.

Then tried explaining away the action by the new excuse of saying u thought it 5 votes

Fair does, sorry i got used to the 5 to lynch idea.

Then under pressure voted again

Why? Because i realised he was on 4 votes and thought it was too early for a lynch and unvoted...

Now i dont think these are major scum tells , but to quote ''the noob trick isn't a good sign either'' you will alienate other players and pick up votes.

I have nothing bad to say about this post. Legitimate scum hunting. Good on you.

That bought out the scummy behaviour , my vote on Yos stands.

Here's where it gets hazy. This post prompted my questioning of him. Which was ignored until I voted for him. In the meantime we got these:

And last but not least...

That bought out the scummy behaviour , my vote on Yos stands.

What is this supposed to mean?

Two of you asked this.

I brought out alot of the newbie behaviour (post61) that ender was doing , which 2 of you have agreed he was making, but ended the post saying im sure hes just a newbie but most probaly town. Yos jumped on the points i made trying, i believe, to start a BW . Having already marked down Yos as scum , hence my already vote on him, i made this comment.

I questioned this again, asking how he had already decided Yos was scum based on an RVS vote and no other mention of him - still I get no answer. The vote comes in here.

I brought out alot of the newbie behaviour (post61) that ender was doing , which 2 of you have agreed he was making, but ended the post saying im sure hes just a newbie but most probaly town. Yos jumped on the points i made trying, i believe, to start a BW .

My analysis of ender's behavior, and my vote for him, had nothing to do with your post at all. I don't agree that ender's behavior is just "newbie behavior"; Fire's stuff just looks like newbie behavior to me, but Ender looks actaully scummy, in that he was willing to have his vote be determined by pressure from others; he seems more concerned about his appearence then about finding scum with his vote, which is scummy.

I totally agree with you saying Ender is more bothered with his apperence, but i see that more of a newbie act than scum. I suspose we will eventually find out whos right.

Here I don't even know. He's agreeing with the person he's decided is scum that another person is acting scummy (but newbier than scum) and does nothing more than agree. He casts no suspicion on the fact that the person he's sure is scum is someone he's now agreeing with.

As i pointed out with my long post quoting ender i believe hes just a newbie town (which i might add so do you Darla post 64). After i spent time explaining this Yos comes on next and votes ender for being being scum. I actually thought this made him scummy as i thought my explanation over ender behaviour was pretty accurate, hence my next post calling Yos for posting AT THAT TIME scummy.

My initial vote for Yos on page one was a start of game joke vote, thats why i put my vote stands on post 63.

I really hope ive answered satisfactory Darla

Finally he addresses my questions, he 'spent time explaining how ender was NOT scum even though he was acting scummy, and ZOMG! Yos came and used his OWN brain instead of sheeping Whiskey and voted on ender so obv, Yos=Scum here in Whiskey's logic. I don't like the logic but unvoted since my entire purpose was to get him to actually EXPLAIN himself.

sorry guys on phone here, gonna try to get to what I can see

@DLG - My stance on ender is simply Meta. The other game we participated in he acted exactly the same, blatant scum moves, and ended up we killed our doc due to other factors which I don't want to elaborate on due to the game being on going. If you want to see it yourself it's Newbie #1045. I am not disregarding his actions but I know this is how he plays as town, and granted I haven't seen him as scum either, I honestly just see him as a n00b and do not like his wagon. My guess is that we have at least one if not two scum on that wagon because he's made himself the perfect target for a scum push. As for Fires I don't know, I just get a noob vibes off him. Between he and ender I'd be more inclined to do an ender lynch, but again, I would need something more blatant from him to make me think he wasn't actually town given the meta I have.

Whiskey - thank you for elaborating and to everyone jumping on me for using a vote to get that answer out of him, pardon me if I felt that something needed to be done to get his attention since he ignored me twice

unvote

I am still not sure what Whiskey sees as so scummy about Yos, and not Bob / Jahudo who're also on the ender wagon, but it's worthy of a look back at Yos' posts for me. Maybe he's seeing something I'm not, (although it'd be helpful if he articulated it more clearly if he is town.)

Right now I'd like to see more from Albie. So far his posts have been primarily fluff, o/t or one or two lines.

more coming when i am not on my phone. and apologies if autocorrect did anything wonky in this post, no time to check it.

I really dont like this post you seem to be all over that place finding someone to pin the scum tag on. I also dont like how u ask someone a question about there actions on other players, normally this is sort of ok but here im sure this is another tactic to deflect the chat from you.

And whats all this phone business? we all have stuff to do. have some more time on the phone

vote Darla

This post is just ugh. He's inferring things into my post which are not there (I have defended this on the previous page) he calls me scum for scumhunting and questioning the play of others, and then begins the phone-fiasco of him using the fact that I was on from my phone as me being scum. (There is a chance as pointed out this was a misunderstanding, either way it's still a ridiculous thing to use as proof of scumminess)

Darla , you brought up 'personal hindrances' ie the phone so of course im allowed to use that anyway i want, you posted it. The point i was making was i couldn understand why u mentioned it. To add a personal touch to your post ? maybe, but more likely just to add more scummy flim flam.

Again with the OMG PHONE = SCUM logic

forgot:

vote Nikanor

Edit: Ninja'd

@Whiskey You're seriously pulling at threads here. If someone announces they're V/LA for being sick will you use that a case against them as being scum too? Please understand the difference between comments made within the game and comments made to inform others of activity level changes no matter how great or small.

Come on.

Being sick and being on the phone are totally different.

Ditto above.

----

On the whole I don't really know what to think of Whiskey. He had a few good posts, but seems to either not understand the mechanics of the game or just be a desperate scum looking for the most likely bandwaggon and then picking at every thread he sees hoping he'll grab the right one and everyone will follow him. Between the two I guess I'd say Striker/Rekirts has been less helpful in that he's done less scum hunting, but imo Whiskey has been the most derailing to scumhunting and dragging us down rabbit holes.

HoS you both.

---

I'm enjoying this ISO thing, it's helping me get a better grip on all the play so far, but I won't plague you guys with anymore walls unless you ask me to ISO anyone specific.

---

Vote coming after I've satisfied my obsessive compulsive need to do more ISOs.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

sorry guys this is a super busy weekend. I have lots to say just no real time to say it. Posting this from my phone, will try and get a response up to the many points tonight if I can, if not then tomorrow for sure.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Darla you never answered my question you claimed that one or two mafia are probably on the Ender train any clue on who they could be?

Yes, I did. I answered you in my post which came before the big phone-gate fiasco. I can go and quote it if you need me to.

Can someone who's on the wagon explain why you're voting for her again?

For my part, it comes down to several things in combination.

Plausible deniability posting in regards both Final Fires and ender241

With his explanation I think I was wrong in my initial impression and Fires really is just a n00b who made a bad move, but I really see no reason to lynch him over it.

Keep him on my scumdar? Yes. Lynch right away, no.

This was her final stance on the Final Fires early game wagon. The last part is the problem. It allows her to move either way without fear of contradicting herself. And, she can point back at this post to support whichever move is convenient.

Knowing what I do about Ender's META coupled with what he's done so far here, I'd say he's suffering from uber-n00b syndrome even still. That or he really just is not good at this game. Either way, I was a bit unsure whether or not to take his actions as noob or super scummy and then he re-voted seemingly only out of pressure. Now I lean more towards scum.

FoS Ender.

This was her initial stance towards ender241. She has vacillated between a progressively scummier read on ender241 and not voting due to her recent experience in another game with ender241. Same problems here as with what she did with Final Fires.

I consider this as much more indicative of scum thinking than cautious town thinking.

Strong-arm play against ender241

@ender is that an OMGUS I see? I think it is. If you read what I said I wasn't calling you scum I said I was leaning towards scummy more than noob town after I saw you revote out of pressure. I still was not convinced enough to vote you however. It's a contextual thing, maybe I should have made that more clear. However the more you do these obvscum things, the less I feel like I can validate my lack of a vote on you based solely on meta.

keep it up and I will vote you meta or not.

DLG bolding

How can he OMGUSsing you if you didn't vote him and in fact were leaning more town in your read of him? That reads like a false attack to try to make ender241 look scummier to everyone else.

At the end, is trying to scare someone as demonstrably weak-willed as ender241 the act of a townie, or the act of a scum using fear as a weapon? I read it as the latter.

Aside from the bare fact of manipulating ender241 puposefully, I find the fact that DarlaBlueEyes did this for the specific purpose of scaring ender241 away from voting her to be scummy.

These have already been covered in the thread. Below is something that I find scummy that has not been covered.

Grasping at straws to shift the wagon off her onto someone else

Alright. As per your

(Nikanor's)

point I did an ISO of him

(rekirtS)

.

Nikanor has not provided anything real to agree with. This struck me as a desperate attempt to find someone, anyone to help build an alternative wagon.

In combination, these points add up to a strong scum read for me.

I am not trying to scare Ender out of his vote. He can vote me if he wants, and FOS if me if his wants. That wont have any affect on my read of him. I would/will vote him if he continues to be more and more blatantly scummy outside of his newbie meta, and I was letting him know that while I had been letting it slip in a sense due to our previous game, I was not going to continue to do so if he kept being such a sheep.

So far my biggest suspect is Bobsnox, who on review of most of his posts/iso as been a total sheep and hostile when his actions are questioned. This screams scum to me and one that can easilly slip under the radar with the Fires/Ender blunders and me, apparently. Looking back over it he gives me the most uneasy vibes of anyone, and if you look at his ISO you'll see why. I also have an uneasy read on Whiskey but he's actually scum hunting which is much more beneficial to town than what Bob has been doing.

No content - no original thought - hostility when questioned - expecting everyone to just accept his actions or shut up.

vote Bobsnox

I don't care if you don't care for regurgitation, Bob, please do explain yourself for us.



[

[DarlaBlueEyes]

add Final Fires to the grasping at straws group

how the heck does FF know my meta? I've played 2 games here and none with him.

I love the OMGUS votes I'm engendering as well. give scum an easy target and watch how fast they flock to the fresh blood.

my vote is confirmed

Okay, I did a quick iso of bobsnox, and I found out that you would have to go at a snail's pase for an iso of him to be anything but quick. Of the 11 posts he made other than his confirm and random vote, only four contain enough content to fill up more than one line (content being defined generously here). One thing that struck me as really scummy was that he said this

Darla and ender still strike me as scummy.

And then just eight hours later says this:

Darla and Final Fires are scumbuddies. Calling it.

That's pathetic.

but I'm not scum?

I agree that bob looks really scummy if you assume that you are town. Since I do not hold that assumption, I do not feel that bobsnox is very scummy.

so you're wasting your time pointing out a pathetic townie?

are you not voting me because you know I'm not scum and you're waiting for a wagon on me to build so you can hop on it?

FoS bub bidderskins

Scum always work themselves up over contribution and content.

You think Darla is scum, I think Darla is scummy. Let's lynch Darla.

Uh okay, let me get this straight, Bob accuses everyone coming after him of OMGUSing, and bud calls out his play and he immediately FoS's Bud. Does that seem hypocritical to anyone else?

@Fires I was conservative because that's my play style and it was far too early in the day for me to feel comfortable with my vote anywhere. Now that we have seen more and I have ISO'd everyone, Bob seems the most blatant scum and I see no reason not to try and have him lynched.

Even still now look how hostile he's being? Avoiding answering us or giving content and just trying to push my wagon further while still not giving any reason HE HIMSELF finds me to be scum, instead just pointing at what others have said. Do not like.

(PS Packers all the way!)

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am not lurking I have had low access. I am pretty sure I mentioned it a page or so back, but I am in several games and sometimes forget which ones I have already said that in.

Posting from phone now, am trying to read back what I've missed

[DarlaBlueEyes]

@mod due to illness and death of family pet I will be V/LA until Monday please do not replace

posting this in all my games, don't expect it to be a huge hinderance - just more of a just-in-case and 'why I am so slow'

[DarlaBlueEyes]

reading back now, guys - though I have been fighting a fever all day so no promises of actually being able to put together somethng coherent lol

[DarlaBlueEyes]

sorry guys. my sick turned into the flu and I've been passed out almost everyday I am starting to feel a little better but am still feverish but I'll really try to get something up tomorow

[DarlaBlueEyes]

urg the flu frakking sucks. But I am here now for good and am reading back the last 5 pages. /hateslife

post forthcoming in the next hour or less

[DarlaBlueEyes]

There is a lot that's happened and I am a bit surprised that the Llama wagon disintegrated so quickly, though I will say while his play at first was very scummy he since has seemed to be very aggressive in his scum hunting which is a lot more helpful and townish than what others are doing. (IE: Whiskey)

I was really not feeling good about Whiskey before my sickness, but at that time he was at least doing some scumhunting, now he's doing none and just lurking his way out of his slip up post which many people called him on two or so pages back. Do not like.

I know we're on a deadline and I do not agree that a no-lynch is going to be protown here so

vote: whiskey

If anyone wants my opinion on something specific could you ask? My head is still a little hurty and it'd make it a lot easier on me getting back into the game.

PS I'm looking over the Bud case now, but doubt he'll be more appealing than whiskey for me right now

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Fine. I'll bite because I want a lynch.

vote Llama

that's L-2. Two more people vote this.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I prefer whiskey lynch too. I'll hammer after he claims.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Um, who are you to tell me what my motives are? You read minds or something? No.

I saw the Whiskey wagon beginning to deteriorate and wanted to ensure we had a lynch rather than a no-lynch. In the future maybe you should ~question~ a person instead of telling them their proclaimed reasoning is a lie. All you ever had is what someone tells you and what they prove in this game, so.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I actually missed your question, I'm sorry about that and as for the switch I mistook the votes right before mine as having been subtracted from Whiskey. I didn't take the time to check which was my bad, but I thought the wagon had just fallen apart and moved BACK to Llama hence my vote swap back over. I wanted a lynch and both Llama and Whiskey were appealing to me and yeah. I thought the bob and fish vote changes were coming off of whiksey because I didn't actually check.

that's the reasoning for all of this

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I just now noticed it's d2, fail me. Reading what I missed!

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I think that Llama is considerably less scummy than fish today, and I don't see any reason to rush a lynch when we have 2 weeks to scumhunt and make sure we get a good lynch and don't lose town again. We're already down a PR which really sucks for us.

I don't like how Bobs is pushing for a quick lynch already, and I still am not comfortable with him from yesterday. His play hasn't changed from when I voted him D1 and I am doubtful it's going to. I have no meta on him outside of this game, which I plan to remedy soon, but I really don't like bobs. Get major uneasy vibes from him.

I like DLG for town right now, probably my strongest town read.

I am going to go look back over the fishy case, but I don't like this rush lynch. Not at all.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Oooh. Everyone talks about Fate. Now I get to meet the infamous one. Welcome to the game, sir.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

arg sorry guys, been really busy this week. I'll have a post up by this evening.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I've read over the last few pages of posts, and really the only thing I came away with of any consequence is how badly Llama is sheeping fate, and as someone said (idr who it was anymore) brown-nosing Fate who's being loud, and aggressive, and easily derailing the llama wagon. I didn't want to lynch Llama the first page into D1 but I think his play has gotten progressively worse and lazier and he's just resting on his laurels letting Fate do all the work for him.

DLG strikes me as town, so does Jahudo

Null reads on Yos and Fate, honestly I find them both a little intimidating and difficult to read

Llama and Bob both still seem scummy to me, bob for the same reasons I've mentioned in d1, and llama for his shameless sheeping d2 and him trying once more to get his wagon derailed by any means possible without actually putting forth any original thoughts. I'd love to see a bob lynch, and I need to go look back at fishy more closely because I have a null read on him too, but for now, and DavidParker person I wanna see something from too.

vote Llama

Sorry this is rushed I have been having a super hectic week and only got a short amount of time here to be on MS before I need to toddle off to bed for my early morning. Will pick it up tomorrow night, which is when my hectic schedule clears up.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

ebwop first page of D2***

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I am sincerely sorry guys, some stuff came up yesterday I hadn't planned for (nice things teehee) and I've just been busier than I anticipated. Picking up prod, reading thread, will have a good post ready for you all before bed.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Okay there is a LOT to cover here, but I can make these general points before I do my big long post full of quotes and such. (That one might come in the morning depending how sleepy I get. It's like 4am)

A. Fate is still confusing as hell to me. Very difficult for me to read one way or another, but I don't like the lie bit, and I typically am a fan of LaL, and after I do a much closer scrutinization of all the posts involved in this 'gambit' of his, I will likely form a more solid conclusion on him.

B. Do not like Llama's continued sheeping off of Fate and using his points as momentum and regurgitating his points, though being bandwaggoned maybe he thinks this is the only way to defend himself, it's just far from his scramble to avoid the rope D1.

C. Bob is STILL sheeping, and being aggressive and not giving any real reason at all for his votes. His posts are short and lacking content. I am going to be doing an ISO of him to prove this point, but I definitely would put him on my scum group.

D. I do not really see the case against Bub right now, but I'll go back and ISO him, because I haven't really gotten much of a read on him at all.

E. Wolf is just...bleh

F. Jah and DLG remain pretty towny for me

G. Yos is starting to lean town for me rather than null with his aggressive scum hunting of Fate and not leaving alone the wtfery soft claim. Also, no way I am going to be a part of a PR lynch, though I admit i've never played with a tracker before, still any pro-town role is to be protected. At least until CC'd or proven to be a liar.

H. DavidParker is really seeming like he's not taking this game too seriously so far, and Fishy is a bit null right now, he's on my list of to-be-ISO'd too.

---

Again I am REALLY sorry for being so inactive, but it's been in all my games with a sudden turn of events keeping me busier than expected IRL, and I will do all that I can to pick it up. At least a post per day. Please just keep bearing with me, I really am enjoying this game and don't want to replace out but if my time gets any more taxed I will consider it for you guys' sake.

also

unvote

for now, will revote when I get my bigger quotey/ISOy post up. This isn't a deflection either. It's coming in the morning (for me...afternoon for normal people lol) I promise

[DarlaBlueEyes]

posting this from my phone in the car guys, woke up to a family emergency. I'm still working on said post from my phone while in the waiting room, but please expect a slight delay. Also, if you're the praying type... please pray for my fam

[DarlaBlueEyes]

hey guys, here now. Sort of. Reading all the stuff I've missed, but I have several games to catch up in so I might be slow in getting a response up. I'll reply in order of game deadlines, which puts this one near the top of the list.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

so so sorry again guys, I've just replaced out of a game and was lynched in another so I have less to worry about, and while I haven't gotten to read everything in here yet I honestly have to say I am more willing to lynch Fate for his fake claim gambit, but I still need to iso BB. I'll do that tonight after my company leaves. Please don't hate me for being such a faily flake D: life just decided to shit on me lately.

Saying this more for deadline sake than anything, but either way I'll make sure I've read everything by d3. And will try to do that before dl.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

(posting from phone, excuse any autocorrect typos please!)

I ISO'd Bub and one thing that really stuck out that I hadn't noticed before was how he has had no solid suspicions since d1 and has wagon hopped freely. I get not knowing who's scum and your opinion changing but that seems just a little too much to me. Also I see now that the fate thing doesn't make sense if he's scum since he could have gotten the llama lynch (unless llama is his scum buddy,) still now that I've actually read through most of all of it fully I see that I was just misunderstanding what went down.

Still a little suss of Fate, but I retract my previous opinion that he's a better lynch than bub now that I've looked at it all.

No me gusta no-lynches, so - bud claim now before i hammer you

[DarlaBlueEyes]

vote: bub

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Suddenly not interested in Llama at all?

@Yos did you get any results last night?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

What exactly am I supposed to do? all they said is LYNCH DARLA

I can either cry and have a fit trying to convince them I'm town or I can sit here and do something productive soooo

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Am curious if the caps are compensation for your lack of any actual proof on me? You think if you shout that people will just sheep you? You're the one who's wanting to rush into a lynch with only 4 of the players having weighed in on d3. Cos that's SO protown...

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Sorry for delay in post. Been busy. Clearly I was not ready to join 948324820394 MS games. Sigh.

Anyways on review of the last few pages, I don't honestly think Fate is scum. I'd like to, considering he's leading the charge on me but all his motivations seem protown when viewed together and with his arguments. (also welcome back Nika, how's life from beyond the grave?)

Werewolf's vote (be it on me or not) is just about as bad as it gets. I have had legitimate excuses for my being absent in this game. What're yours sir? - do not like his opportunistic bandwagoning.

still think Jah is the towniest towner here, and I'm not sure what to make of Yos trying to bait out a vig. Granted I do admit there's less threat from a Vig to the scum if they keep picking off the wrong person (since we've only had town night kills) still I don't think outing any remaining PRs is in the towns favor at all.

Broken's reasoning does seem a bit defensive of Yos, like maybe (someone said it a page or two back idr who) saying he's automatically confirmed town because of his PR. Scum can have trackers too, so I don't necessarily discount him as town because of his claim. He has not been glaringly scummy to me though yet (Yos) enough to merit a vote over some of the others in this game.

I wanna hear from Llama, and uh DP I am neither here nor there at the moment but I am not getting any blips on my scumdar from him either.

Going to meta Broken now and check something - I am not sure who I want to lynch yet, but I know I don't support a Jah lynch.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Meta = ISO *

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Hey Darla, can I ask you some questions?

Come at me, brah

[DarlaBlueEyes]

@Jah

I think you're either misunderstanding that quote, or miscommunicating your question. First of all, please examine Bud's first 4 posts of the game

But...but... I still wanna confirm! /confirm

Now then,

6. Bob Bidderskin

Obviously Bub Bidderskin's evil twin brother has disguised himself as Bub. Don't worry real Bub, we'll save you.

Vote: Bub Bidderskin

If you coming to save me, then why are you voting for me to kill me? This apparant contradiction can only be the spawn of scum.

Vote: Jahudo

This game's gonna be easy if the Mafia are stupid enough to have leaked their presence to the press!

---

vote: Final Fires

I get the feeling that he voted Yos and the he looked back on his vote and thought that it looked scummy, so he had to invent a BS reason to unvote.

But regardless of whether or not Final Fires is town, he did generate some interesting reactions...

um, it's RVS, SO SHUT UP

Allow me to paraphrase: "No! We spent so much time laying down our scum-plans and now you have to go and ruin everything during the RVS!!!"
Pom, why did you say that? You didn't give an opinion on Final Fires, you didn't tell how saying the things he did say was making him more scummy, not less, and you didn't ask him a question either, to try and get more info. It was totally pointless for game purposes, so why post?

Though I am getting scummy vibes off that entire post, I want a little more evidence before I throw in a vote and make a bandwagon. Though he's at the top of my list already.

Why hold back your vote? Only two people had voted for him and seven would be required for a lynch. Like pom's post, this comment is kind of pointless. "I think he's scummy, but I'll let everybody else do all the work. ho hum."

I'm not getting a scummy vibe off Final Fires right now. Trying to take the lead and be proactive comes across as a natural townie response, even if his suggestion of grouping people together and lynching based on that is really flimsy reasoning for lynching.

He said this after giving some pointers to Final Fires. Jahudo, if you think that Final Fires is not scum, then what do you think of Pom and Darla?

---

Vote: Jahudo.

Don't worry Fires. I believe you.

Do you have a reason for voting Jahudo?

Wouldn't a long, drawn out post accusing others of being scum look much more scummy than simply voting for yos? My motives weren't to look 'less scummy', but instead point out an observation I made, for what I thought was a better vote.

At this stage, a vote on Yos to get a bandwagon going isn't scummy at all, but a long drawn out post (like yours) is pointless this early becacuse there is so little info to go on.

Honestly, I simply meant to tell you to stop being so serious, and although it may have seemed hostile, it wasn't meant to be. I have a null-overeager-newb read on you ATM.

If you view Final Fires as town, then does that make the people who vote for him scummier, even if just by a little bit?

@ Bub Bidderskins
Why did you point out what DarlaBlueEyes had done, but give no attention to MoreWhisky who had done basically the same thing?

I should have asked him as well, but I missed him. Sorry, my bad.

Ender, wtf? Vote, unvote, vote. You shouldn't be scared to run somebody up if you think they're scum, but I get what you were saying with your unvote. I do not like your re-vote, however. That "happy now?" sounded like you just re-voted because somebody asked you to.

FOS: ender

---

Even though ender looks scummy, Darla looks like scum.

unvote; vote DarlaBlueEyes

That's two back-to-back mini-wagons that she said "oh, he looks scummy, but I'm going to reserve my vote" that kind of hesitancy with her vote indicates scum to me. A townie wouldn't be afraid to vote for somebody he or she thinks is scum. Essentially, she said she approved of the wagons, but didn't get on them.

that's the first four posts he made. In order. Hopping on with each wagon as it bloomed, and giving nothing else. Then on d2 he coasted between the two biggest wagons, and gave almost no input at all. Granted I was absent and not very helpful when I myself was here, he didn't have the excuse of a family emergency for his lurking and low-content giving. That combined with me still being unsure about Fate over all, (my opinion keeps changing, and I hate uncertainty) I felt Bub by his play was a much better lynch.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I had a post all written up earlier and BOOM tornado warning and sirens and thunder and shit. The fates are conspiring against me in this game especially )<

I am honestly a bit reluctant to claim, as I vaguely mentioned in response to Yos' call for a vig to claim now, but seeing as how I am about to be hammered, I'll come out with it. I'm a vig. I didn't get a kill in N1 and N2 I shot bob. I really thought he was scum from his play, and didn't think I'd ever be able to convince the town of it enough to lynch him, so....

clearly my reads were shit.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

If it's any help, I am willing to cooperate with the town/majority in selecting my kills. Assuming at least we don't have a role-blocker in play on either side, especially on the scum team if the majority decides to target one of theirs.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Yes, Locke that's what I mean. I didn't get around to it before the night phase ended. )<


as for the lynch, it's Broken over Locke at this point for me, though I am still really unsure of how to take the Fate/Nika/Aik slot. I would have liked to hear something from Nika before DL honestly :/

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Holy shit...

I concede it now, Fate - you were right.

I must have been Role-blocked last night because my kill didn't go through. That or the person I targeted was bullet proof... Maybe a god father?

I agree that Llama is definitely on the town list now thanks to this flip info, but ugh. I hate when all my reads are reset by something like this >(

brb gonna look back over the locke/werewolf/who the fuck ever else has been there slot again.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Nope...

but the kill post says Red Mafia maybe that means there's two scum groups?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

N1 = didn't get kill in
N2 = bob
N3 = I targetted David but nothing happened. So either we got a role blocker, or a bulletproof role. I'd guess a godfather or something like it.
-----

Going to have to reassess everything I thought now man...

Gonna look over Jah now. I didn't suspect Yos, and look where THAT got me. Gonna trust Fate's eye and check it out.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Roleblocker seems the most obvious explanation to me.

Also, I have to go out so I'll return to read up on Jah later.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

v/la through tonight, sorry guys. posting this from phone, please don't lynch while I am gone

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Back back, give me a bit to catch up in my newbies and I'll be here