Mafia 124 - Dilemma Mafia (Day 6)

[bobsnox]

/confirm

[bobsnox]

Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Sounds like a scummy name

[bobsnox]

no

he

didn't...

unvote

vote: final fires

[bobsnox]

I'm going to VOTE: FinalFires this is because the "powerful townie" hint suggests to me that he's making people not want to vote him just incase he's a power role something mafia would do at the moment. The noob trick isn't a good sign either, everyone is told that if they've never done a mafia game to do a noob game and he plays like he knows what to do.

UNVOTE: Finalfires It's way to early to lynch so i'm going to unvote just incase he is a newbie.

FoS: ender241

[bobsnox]

yes. takes 8 to lynch...

[bobsnox]

Unvote

Vote: ender241

[bobsnox]

Vote: bobsox

Reading back his posts will prove to be useless as he hasn't justified any of his votes. I think he's hiding something.

I thought it would be easy to infer my reasons

[bobsnox]

@DLG - I didn't even notice Darla had questioned me.

I voted Final Fires for this and the other scummy content within that post:

Let me just say though, if you vote me off, you won't only be voting off a townie, but a powerful townie at that. If you have to lynch me tonight then fine, but afterwards maybe you'll take my accusations seriously.

"Don't lynch me! You'll be sorry!" Newb? Ok I can buy that. But someone to keep an eye on for sure.

Now I'm much more interested in lynching ender or Darla. I could go for either.

I FoSed Ender in #52 for his scummy unvote of Final Fires because it was "too early" for a lynch. He was scared (apparently?) that a lynch would soon ensue when FF only had 4 votes on him? scummmmy Why be afraid of that lynch anyway? FF seemed like a good enough candidate to vote but not to lynch?

Darla is all over the place. She goes from leaning scum on Ender to this junk within two posts:

I have a very good reason to not vote ender based on his play thanks to a newbie game we were/are in together. It's his meta. He seems scum when he's not. He's just really nooby, and while I am ~recognizing~ his scum-haviour, I am also noting that for once I have reliable meta on a player and can say that I do not intend to make the mistake of assuming his noobness to be scumness without more solid proof.

Someone with a meta on Darla - is this scum or town Darla?

[bobsnox]

@brokenscraps - that's how I roll. I don't see the big deal you're trying to make of it given the relative newness of this game. I like to sit back and read interactions rather than push things myself.

On a different note, Darla and ender still strike me as scummy.

[bobsnox]

Darla and Final Fires are scumbuddies. Calling it.

Unvote

Vote: Darla

[bobsnox]

One of these Nikanor, one of these days, you are going to actually post some real content, and when that day comes I'm going to jump for joy, but in the meantime...

That is just silly. Why are you being so silly.

Nikanor is a VI plain and simple. A scum could not possibly be stupid enough to do what he did.

That's an interesting thing to say, considering you just FoS'd me here:

FoS: Nikanor

Please explain all of the following:

1) Why you are voting for rekirtS
2) What you think of the two biggest wagons (DLE and ender)
3) What you think of Final Fires' early game play

1) I'm voting Striker because he is such a terrible person!
2) If by DLE you mean DBE, I think she is a swell person. I find it difficult for me to find guilt in such a wonderful avatar.
3) I saw a newb make a newbish post. He seems like a newbie to me.

DBE, were you really just voting me because I mentioned three different people then voted a fourth?

Bob? or Bub?... Cause I never said any of those things.

@ Bob care to explain that at all? Or are you just bandwagoning without explanation?

I'm choosing to be parsimonious since the reasons you are scummy have been listed earlier. I'm not big on regurgitation - sends the thread in circles.

Is Final Fires your scumbuddy?

[bobsnox]

lol @ brokenscraps

DLG summed up my thoughts on Darla - "grasping at straws." She's also, as has been pointed out before, covering herself as she comments on her suspects.

[bobsnox]

I like how DLG is thinking

[bobsnox]

I like how DLG is thinking

Are you incapable of forming your own opinions?

Get over yourself.

[bobsnox]

add Final Fires to the grasping at straws group

how the heck does FF know my meta? I've played 2 games here and none with him.

I love the OMGUS votes I'm engendering as well. give scum an easy target and watch how fast they flock to the fresh blood.

my vote is confirmed

[bobsnox]

but I'm not scum?

I agree that bob looks really scummy if you assume that you are town. Since I do not hold that assumption, I do not feel that bobsnox is very scummy.

so you're wasting your time pointing out a pathetic townie?

are you not voting me because you know I'm not scum and you're waiting for a wagon on me to build so you can hop on it?

FoS bub bidderskins

Scum always work themselves up over contribution and content.

You think Darla is scum, I think Darla is scummy. Let's lynch Darla.

[bobsnox]

His posting style seems to take a much more aggressive tone once Darla pointed suspicion towards striker and whiskey (potential chainsaw defense? It wasn't that dramatic, but there definitely was a slight change in the attitude of his posts).

^ Grasping at straws

Darla please try to lynch me. I will be happy when I flip town and you are on the top of the to-be-lynched list for tomorrow.

It's funny how hard some of you are trying to find legitimate reasons to wagon on me. Trying to cover all your bases to avoid the scenario I just mentioned.

Bob accuses everyone coming after him of OMGUSing, and bud calls out his play and he immediately FoS's Bud.

Oh look a straw man.
1 - Never said "everyone." Look at what you quoted.
2 - I FoSed Bub for going on and on about how pathetic my play is even though he thinks I'm TOWN. That's ridiculous. That's like "let me see how I can find a reason to vote bobsnox when I get off the Darla wagon." He and I are voting for the same person (you), but he's going to waste time criticizing another townie?

I may unvote depending on how bob defends himself.

You need a bullet tonight after we lynch Darla. That's scummy. Maybe you always give yourself a way out if the ship sinks, but that's scummy.

[bobsnox]

Man, bob just keeps looking worse and worse. "Please try to lynch me, I'll flip town", ugh. Also, the part where he first called bub scum, and then tried to get bub to join him on a wagon looks dishonest at best.

Bub and I are on the same wagon already. Your chronology is wrong.

hth

[bobsnox]

Jahudo - I ask those questions to see how they react to the obvious implications.

[bobsnox]

"Don't lynch me! You'll be sorry!" Newb? Ok I can buy that. But someone to keep an eye on for sure.

Darla please try to lynch me. I will be happy when I flip town and you are on the top of the to-be-lynched list for tomorrow.

By your own argument you're someone to keep an eye on.

What are you even trying to say? I didn't say "Don't lynch me you'll be sorry!"... so you lost me big time

I may unvote depending on how bob defends himself.

You need a bullet tonight after we lynch Darla. That's scummy. Maybe you always give yourself a way out if the ship sinks, but that's scummy.

1. This is definately grasping at straws, which you label as something scummy.

No, you're definitely playing it safe by setting up a possible egress in case the ship sinks. That's not hard to see. If it's your normal behavior, you normally behave like scum.

2. It's also just wrong. I've made three votes (Albert, Ender, and now you), and I was reasonable with my level of commitment to each one according to how strongly I felt about them. Reread my vote against ender and quote anything that "gave me a way out".

By using the phrase "maybe you always" I did not mean to convey a sense that I have analyzed your previous votes and found such a recurring playstyle. I was suggesting that if (IF) that's your normal behavior, then you play scummy.

Besides, barely explaining why you voted for some one is pretty much the same thing you're accusing me of - "always [giving] yourself a way out if the ship sinks". Again, by your own argument, you're scummy.

what the...

Uhhh no

it's not

at all

remotely

It seems like your guilty of the scum behavior your accusing others of, minus worrying about content.

drawing conclusions from incorrect premises makes your argument invalid.

As soon as I questioned him he immediately turned around, and instead of defending himself said "OMGUS towards me! Final is grasping at straws for analyzing my play!".

herrrr that's not what I said. nice try dude

you are grasping at straws. you are making ridiculous leaps in logic. not "for analyzing my play" - you just are.

This made me very suspicious - everyone has been questioned to some extent, but no one thus far has panicked for having suspicion shed on them.

lollll. Me telling Darla to lynch me = panicking? weird

I made it clear I wanted him to defend instead of just brushing it off and then throwing empty accusations back at me, but so far he has not been able to do that.

I want you to lynch me so a vig puts a bullet in your head tonight. your arguments are bad - I have the option of pretending like they're not and trying to "defend" myself or I can call them what they are. bad.

you want me to "rationally respond" - be more rational yourself.

are you and darla scum buddies?

[bobsnox]

Eh. I don't have a problem with his darla vote, specifically, although I wish he'd explain it better. I mostly just don't like the way he's trying to aggressively force others to vote her; it feels more like a scum trying to force a wagon then like a town honestly trying to find scum.

I found scum.

Let's lynch her.

[bobsnox]

Eh. I don't have a problem with his darla vote, specifically, although I wish he'd explain it better. I mostly just don't like the way he's trying to aggressively force others to vote her; it feels more like a scum trying to force a wagon then like a town honestly trying to find scum.

I found scum.

Let's lynch her.

Can you just confirm the 'lets lynch her' part of your post is directed at Darla?

Yeah why?

[bobsnox]

Unless i have to vote him i won't though, i'd prefer VOTE: Finalfires.

Why are you voting for Final Fires?

seriously what the

[bobsnox]

FF work on reading comprehension. <---- serious statement

Please lynch me =/= don't lynch me you'll be sorry

etc.

this is annoying

[bobsnox]

FF

Lynch me is a request.

Do it. Stop bussing Darla, stop redefining the English language, and do it. I

want you to do it

.

Try to twist that.

I really don't understand your rationale for not voting bob, FF. Do you think your vote would distract people from both a bob and darla wagon?

What's not to understand? He knows I'm town and he doesn't want the autowagon to form on him tomorrow.

[bobsnox]

my tactic




Yosarian2's head

look at all the opportunities FF has to vote me, try to get a wagon on me, etc. and look at how he keeps trying to avoid it. Why would he do that? Because he's scum and he knows I'm town.

[bobsnox]

"bob I'll unvote you as soon as you do something townish because I don't really want to vote you in the first place" <--- rough paraphrase of his initial vote on me

[bobsnox]

unconditional this time or what?

[bobsnox]

And also...

"bob I'll unvote you as soon as you do something townish because I don't really want to vote you in the first place" <--- rough paraphrase of his initial vote on me

You haven't done anything even remotely townish, so this reasoning is off.

And since when have you been after yos? It seems like you just go after whoever accuses you. Darla, me, bub, and now yos. OMGUS?

why is it that you don't understand anything I'm saying? I never said I did anything townish. YOU said you'd UNVOTE ME if I SHOWED SIGNS OF BEING TOWN OR WHATEVER. WHICH IS RIDICULOUS - IF YOU VOTE SOMEONE, VOTE THEM. DON'T GIVE THEM/YOURSELF A WAY OUT OF BEING VOTED/VOTING. That was my point. You put a farcical vote on me with the condition that you would take it off prima facie should I behave in a manner to your liking. My whole point was to show how ridiculous that is. "Bob just act like town and I'll unvote you"????? That's akin to saying "Bob I KNOW you're town (because I'm scum), so don't make me keep my vote on you AND GET MYSELF LYNCHED IN RETURN"

WHEN DID I AT ALL HINT THAT I THOUGHT YOS WAS SCUM? I DIDN'T. I DIDN'T EVEN IMPLY I THOUGHT YOS WAS SCUM.

[bobsnox]

Bub is scummy because he intentionally took it upon himself to criticize my play as scummy/poor while simultaneously acknowledging that he thinks I'm town. And all this while we're on the same wagon, trying to get Darla lynched.

[bobsnox]

You just said "my tactic... yos's head". I think it's fair to say that everyone who read that assumed you meant you wanted yos dead (when you say you want someone's head, this is normally what it suggests). This either implies you're town and you think he's scum, or you're scum and you just want him dead.

if something is up here






and someone's head is down here



then something is over someone's head.




my strategy was OVER Yos's head.

[bobsnox]

@fishy: I knew you'd replace in strong, that's good to see in this game. Do you have a strong opinion about bobsnox yet? He's been the second or third wagon most of the day.

I read bob fairly thoroughly, since he's a popular target. I don't remember what I concluded, but I know it wasn't overwhelming. I'll go through the arguments more carefully and actually comment on them (some time this weekend).

Not surprised. I haven't done much more than attract attention to myself to see what would happen by being fairly hostile toward some silly people.

I'm still good with my Darla vote. Keeping an eye on Ender slot (Llamarble)

[bobsnox]

I don't really have much of a read on Darla based on her posts; I realize she's had computer problems and other issues, but I would like to hear more from her when we get the chance. Her case against bobsnox is reasonable, but I would like to hear her thoughts on other people, hopefully before the end of the day.

That being said, the wagon against her feels scum driven. I just get a bad vibe from it; the degree to which people are expressing certainty about her being scum seems completely out of proportion to the strength of the case against her, and I think that several of the scummiest players in the game are pushing that wagon in a way that I don't trust.

Do you think ender and Darla could be scum together?

[bobsnox]

Yos - has your opinion on Darla changed? You said earlier you don't have a problem with the Darla votes, but now you do? What's the main reason?

[bobsnox]

Darla and ender being scum together? wow i would have never thought of that but it seems to make sense. Top idea Bob im gona look into that more.

what the

sarcasm?

One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working! Im not scum im town, ive told you who the main cuprits are Darla and the new llamarble.

And llamrble i do like your posts very nicely done.

is English your first language?

Unvote

Are MoreWhisky and Ender/LLamarble scum buddies? hmm

Vote: MoreWhisky

[bobsnox]

EBWOP

Meant to vote Llamarble and FoS MoreWhisky

Unvote

Vote: Llamarble

[bobsnox]

Someone sounds desperate...

it would be cool if a vig would target Whisky tonight

[bobsnox]

@bob: I know you've talked a lot about this already, but I'd like to know exactly what you hoped to achieve, or what else you were thinking, when you asked first Darla and then FF to lynch you/try to lynch you. I'm not quite clear on what reactions you hoped for or expected, and how those reactions would help you determine their alignment and/or persuade others of your cases.

I wanted to see their justifications.

[bobsnox]

VOTE: Llamarble

bobsnox also looks bad, he purposely posted little at the start of the game and what he did post was without much content, justifies it by claiming his tactic is to sit back and watch, this would be all well and good if sitting back at the start of the day wasn't so much more beneficial for scum than town, there are some other things that I'll look into when I have the patience.

Whisky is still on my list, glad to see more wagoning though I prefer Llamarble right now.

k so I'm bussing Llamarble and possibly Whisky

[bobsnox]

Is MoreWhisky going to bus Llamarble?

[bobsnox]

Llamarble needs to be lynched already. Let's get some new info. He keeps saying he's going to scumhunt - what's he waiting for?

[bobsnox]

CryMeaRiver you really think I'd be bussing my scumbuddies this hard on Day One with no provocation?

why do I keep getting listed as scum with the people I think are scum?

Llamarble - why do you keep saying "let me live longer so I can do some scumhunting!" when your scumhunting consists of repeating previously established arguments?

Time to a) claim and b) come up with better excuses for why you should still be alive.

===[]

[bobsnox]

CryMeaRiver you really think I'd be bussing my scumbuddies this hard on Day One with no provocation?

why do I keep getting listed as scum with the people I think are scum?

Llamarble - why do you keep saying "let me live longer so I can do some scumhunting!" when your scumhunting consists of repeating previously established arguments?

Time to a) claim and b) come up with better excuses for why you should still be alive.

===[]

That was completely based off of play, not interactions.

It still doesn't make sense. To have us all listed as scum I must be bussing hardcore.



Fishythefish - if we lynch Llamarble today and he flips Vanilla Townie, then you have some good targets for the lynch tomorrow. Right now you're just killing a darn good bandwagon.

[bobsnox]

You sound

awfully sure

about Llamarble.

I'd support a BB lynching

after

we lynch Llamarble (for my previously mentioned reasons).

DLG I don't find scummy ATM. That's probably because I agree with what he has been saying.

[bobsnox]

I was saying to bob that what we need to do is lynch scum, and nothing else. He seems to think that the information content from this lynch is comparably important to the result. A bandwagon on town at this stage of the day is bad if we can lynch scum instead.

right so let's lynch Llamarble

bob seems content with lynching Llama and seeing the outcome, and I think he should be thinking harder about the situation.

look at this awesome wagon stalling out...

was ender scummy? yep. has llamarble rectified that? nope.

Obviously I expect people to use their own reads and minds to make their votes, but equally obviously right now I've got a fairly strong opinion I want people to agree with.

ok so I'm voting Llamarble. why are you posting stuff like that?

"Don't do what you want to do but do what you want to do"

@bob: I was quite sure about Llamatown, but as I say above that's a little off. What I'm now pretty sure of is that the recent wagon is scumdriven, which certainly reflects well on Llama.

I now support a Fishy lynch until further notice

He is way too sure Llamarble would flip town.

Supported lynches:
Llamarble
Fishy
Bub
Darla
Whisky

[bobsnox]

Fishy - how many scum teams do you think there are? You seem to be talking like there's only one.

[bobsnox]

unvote

vote: fishythefish

time for a new wagon

[bobsnox]

Why do you think I'm scum?

I have no idea. I probably do tend to assume one (in my head this game feels like a mini), but that assumption is not necessarily good. It doesn't really matter for anything I'm saying. If there are scum driving Llama's wagon, that makes it more likely he's town either way - then there is at least one scumteam he can't be on. And BB is much scummier than Llama at the moment, which is really the crucial point. Whether Llama is townish, null or mildly scummy isn't that important.

1 - it does matter.
2 - that wouldn't make it more likely he's town
3 - your last sentence is scummy

You are way too sure Llamarble is town and you're not drawing appropriate conclusions concerning the possibility of there being more than one scum faction.

Conclusion: you are scum who knows there's only your scum faction to deal with and that Llamarble isn't one of your scumbuddies.

[bobsnox]

Llarma is town because he thinks his opinion matters. That is classic townie thinking all the way. I'm only skimming his posts but from what I read it really does look like he thinks we care about what he has to say.

Vote: DLG.

Fishy, would you like to join me? A DLG lynch would be excellent right about now.

lolll

FoS Nikanor. Maybe you're just silly. But that sounds pretty scummy right there.

Why are you only skimming the posts of one of the leading bandwagons, not too mention the replacement for one of the scummiest players?

I support a Nikanor lynch now

Supported lynches:
Llamarble
Darla
Nikanor
Whisky
Fishy
Bub

Its been said before but ender made a mess of his role, he wasnt scum he was new to this. Llmarble doent deserve this wagon.

"made a mess of his role"? you know what his role is?

[bobsnox]

Welcome Werewolf!

On a reread it looks like DLG may actually believe what he's saying, so he moves to somewhere between null and town.
I don't particularly like Yosarian's ISO but I've never played with him and it's certainly not in the same scumminess league as Bub.
That scumslip of Bub's I pointed out most recently needs comments.
Do all you people not voting Bub really buy that he's a townie who was most suspicious of Darla in spite of her making what he agreed was a respectable case against Bobsnox? And then he immediately turned around and said that it was notable she was continuing to move her vote around?? When was it ever bad to make a reasonable case against somebody and move your vote to them?? When I read that post of his I felt like he knew Darla believed what she was saying, which does not make sense if he thinks she's scum.

Interesting. And my wagon analysis does support this. I still prefer Bob at this point.

you gotta be kidding me. me over bub?

oh hey don't worry about me voting Fishythefish or anything

[bobsnox]

Supported lynches:
Llamarble
Darla
Nikanor
Whisky
Fishy
Bub

What a long list! Personally, I feel privileged to reside in the esteemed company of ones such as Llamarble, Darla and Fishy.

Nikanor you asked us to wait for you to weigh in before hammering. In the time that took, the llama wagon derailed. Potential stalling? If llama is scum we should keep an eye on him. For now though I've still got a null read on Nik.

You know that I've called Llama town, right? Meaning I

want

his wagon derailed.
And my vote is very serious. Mafia is serious business and this is no time to be fooling around. There is evil afoot!

Nikanor why are you

skimming

Llamarble's posts? That's extremely scummy behavior.

[bobsnox]

*feels that the bandwagon analysis was useless due to no reactions to it*

It is useless because you picked the wrong guy for bad reasons.

[bobsnox]

Hey MW, do you want to join the budding DLG wagon? I'm sure it has the potential to go far, and I can certainly make it worth your while.
Plus, when DLG flips scum you'll get town points for being one of the first on the wagon. Even if you're town, you can't deny that you need that boost to avoid being lynched within the next couple of days.

Thanks for the offer Nikano , but theres more important potential scum out there at moment, my votes stand for the mo.

do you just play drunk or something?

[bobsnox]

Can someone please just vig MoreWhisky tonight? I feel like he's just playing stupidly.

Crymeariver - I'll just say I honestly thought you had something interesting in your bandwagon case except for when you concluded that I was scummier than bub. You almost convinced me to vote for him.

[bobsnox]

guess this game has an appropriate name

[bobsnox]

Why is Fishy so darn sure Llamarble would flip town?

gosh

There is no shot I'm going to be on the same wagon as Darla, Nikanor and whoever else some of the scumbags are who are voting Whisky right now. I will only join if I absolutely have to to avoid a no-lynch. I think I stated or insinuated earlier that MoreWhisky might just be bad - just a bad player.

I am completely with DLG about the evaporation of the two leading bandwagons. Ridiculous.

Some more food for thought: why was Llamarble so darn desperate to stay alive if he's just a VT?

CryMeaRiver - have you not realized your bandwagon theory is invalid yet? I'm pretty sure I was voting Fishy before you came up with it. Makes no sense according to your scheme. Time to find a new target.

[bobsnox]

I agree that this case is weak.

...

Also odd that Whisky wouldn't switch to you when he was sure of a DBE/Llamarble scumteam and the Llama wagon was finding more success; why would he care which of the scum he lynched? Will be something to look at again when he/you flip.

Hmmm good point right there...

[bobsnox]

Bobsnox, were you not satisfied with Fishy's defense against your case? (Post 391)

Eliminating half the ways a player could be scum makes it half as likely they are scum. In fact, not being scum with BB eliminates

more

than that - because there's a decent chance there's only one team. It's crazy to say that just because there might be two scumteams, one player being scum can't make another

more likely

to be town.

Even if I knew there were two scumteams, so what? BB is scummier than Llama. Nothing I'm saying relies on there only being one scumteam.

Nope. Doesn't make sense. Particularly "It's crazy to say that just because there might be two scumteams, one player being scum can't make another

more likely

to be town." That doesn't sound logical at all. There is no basis to assume that anyone doing some scumhunting at this stage is not hunting an opposing mafia faction (unless there's only one faction, which is yet to be determined). How then would someone's scum alignment in any way correspond to another person's town alignment?

I can't honestly say I understand his points though. If there is only one mafia faction then he sort of makes sense, but otherwise he seems to be begging the question and drawing unnecessary conclusions.

[bobsnox]

Ok Fishy I can respect that.

You've been downgraded to an FoS.

"heavy heart" <_<

UNVOTE: Fishythefish

VOTE: Llamarble

Let's do this.

[bobsnox]

I'm waiting the town's approval before I hammer. If there's anything else that needs to be quickly discussed or finished I would like to give everyone the opportunity to do so before we move in to the night phase.

Yeah I have something to discuss: someone vig Darla tonight. That last post was megascummy.

Or vig Bub Bidderskins (if Llamarble flips town). I like Llamarble's and CryMeaRiver's points against him if Llamarble flips town.

[bobsnox]

I'll hammer him. That was ridicu-bad.

Someone please vig Darla tonight - her posts are begging for a vig-bullet.

Unvote: Llamarble

Vote: MoreWhisky

[bobsnox]

I could go for a Llamarble lynch frealz today.

Or Fishy

Wondering about Bidderskins.

Looking through all of their ISOs to see their interactions with FF. Ender's early votes on FF look pretty suspicious. Like he believed FF's PR soft claim, thought about getting him lynched to save a nightkill, and then thought better of it to cover himself.

VOTE: Llamarble

[bobsnox]

Don't have much time, but there is scum on this small early wagon:

12. Final Fires (4) - Brokenscraps, Bub Bidderskins, bobsnox, ender241

when are you going to have time to explain that?

[bobsnox]

lol I vote in !'s now

[bobsnox]

where is llamarble and his awesome scumhunting?

[bobsnox]

I will still support a Darla lynch, btw. her level of scumminess has not diminished. she's just flying under the radar

[bobsnox]

how many is that on llamarble? 5?

Llamarble is at L-2 just so everyone knows.

I really wish we could lynch Llamarble and Fishy today. If anyone thinks Fishy is a better lynch I will join that wagon.

[bobsnox]

FoS everyone not on the Llamarble bandwagon lol

seriously though. why is llamarble still alive?

[bobsnox]

I though scum usually claim VT not PR. Someone (other than Llamarble) correct me if I'm wrong.

And I find it interesting that Llamarble claimed VT (didn't he? I forget now. I'll go look).

[bobsnox]

I think that Llama is considerably less scummy than fish today, and I don't see any reason to rush a lynch when we have 2 weeks to scumhunt and make sure we get a good lynch and don't lose town again. We're already down a PR which really sucks for us.

I don't like how Bobs is pushing for a quick lynch already, and I still am not comfortable with him from yesterday. His play hasn't changed from when I voted him D1 and I am doubtful it's going to. I have no meta on him outside of this game, which I plan to remedy soon, but I really don't like bobs. Get major uneasy vibes from him.

I like DLG for town right now, probably my strongest town read.

I am going to go look back over the fishy case, but I don't like this rush lynch. Not at all.

Hey Darla. I'll give you the same treatment I gave FF. Lynch me.

I don't think it would take much for people to hop on another Darla wagon.

Weird how DLG and I are practically 100% in agreement on things yet he's your strongest town read and I'm your main suspect.

Why would my play change? Did it ever look like I felt any pressure from your and FF's whimpy cases on me? "oh no they're on to me! I need to change my play!" no. but someone else has definitely done just that (you). I understand outside circumstances, but when you've been here you've been pretty inconspicuous.

We stand to learn some stuff/lynch scum by lynching Llamarble. No one is pushing a speedlynch on him - I'm just shocked he's still alive and people aren't more focused on him.

Acceptable lynches:
-Llamarble
-Darla
-Fishy
-Bub Bidderskins (scummy behavior, plus we'd have a better idea about Llamarble and Fishy)

I can't vote in two places at once, and the vast majority of my suspicion of Llamarble rests on my ender241 read. I think Llamarble's case on Bub Bidderskins is sincere. I think it a case of genuine scum hunting from a scum slot. That would mean a multi-faction game, and while there is a possibility of that, there is no guarantee of it.

ONE PERSON DIED LAST NIGHT. THEREFORE GENUINE SCUM HUNTING PROBABLY MEANS TOWN. BUT IN SPITE OF THINKING I'M GENUINELY HUNTING FOR SCUM AFTER A NIGHT WITH 1 KILL, YOU STILL VOTE ME???

AND WHY ARE BOBSNOX AND WEREWOLF VOTING ME?? I SEE NOTHING IN THEIR ISOS TO EXPLAIN THAT. ESPECIALLY WEREWOLF'S.

LOUD NOISES

I'm voting you for the same reasons I was voting you yesterday, plus the fact that you have ceased doing all that wall-posting/scumhunting stuff. Your behavior is scummy and your predecessor was scumtastic.

Fate replaces Ninkanor.

oh boy...

[bobsnox]

also, Darla, scumhunting for 2 weeks does not necessarily increase our chances of hitting scum. We spent a long time going back and forth on several targets yesterday only to mislynch. Using more of our time does not necessarily increase our chances of being correct.

If we find scum (like I believe we have), we pick the best option and lynch one of them.

bandwagon derailing is what led to MW's lynch, btw. More time = more derailing. Several people are sure about Llamarble. It's time for a lynching or for someone to develop a better wagon.

[bobsnox]

I'm voting you for the same reasons I was voting you yesterday, plus the fact that you have ceased doing all that wall-posting/scumhunting stuff. Your behavior is scummy and your predecessor was scumtastic.

This response is totally inadequate. My point was that you didn't give any even vaguely decent reasons yesterday.
All I saw was Ender's votes on FF. Which while wrong apparently were due to FF playing the newbcard and softclaiming.
And my "lack of scumhunting" (and now suddenly he accuses me of having "stopped scumhunting" so clearly he thought I was before).

I should have been more clear: "so-called scum-hunting" is what I meant. You stopped your seeming scumhunting.

I'm liking what I see from DLG, Jahudo, and Yos.

I'll be interested to see what Fate comes up with. I'm sure it will involve a multitude of capital letters, which is always entertaining.

Jahudo - I'm all for a Darla wagon if no one is going to finish Llamarble off.

[bobsnox]

hmm is werewolf buddying up to me?

[bobsnox]

lolscumhunting

"My wagon is all scum!"

[bobsnox]

Llama's play has become rather deranged. But when DLG voted him yesterday (344), and asked someone else to hammer, it was not. Really, go back to that point, and read what Llama was saying at the time, and note the ludicrous speed with which his wagon had built. Imagine Llama is one of your competing top suspects. I just don't see that you would want the day over.

The things I find scummiest in the game are some cases on Llama. It's pretty much inevitable that I'm going to look like I'm defending Llama.

Right. I'm not going to post any more on these matters, until people start voting for me tomorrow. For people who actually give a fuck what I've said, I've said it all many times now. I'm making zero impression on anyone, and I don't see that changing. Definitely time to start thinking about other things.

Bleh.

"It's pretty much inevitable that I'm going to look like I'm defending Llama." as you have the entire game practically...

Hey how about a Darla lynch?

[bobsnox]

Side note: I'm going to Puerto Rico in the morning. I may be

V/LA

until Sunday night, but I'm pretty sure I'll have internet access.

Just in case

[bobsnox]

lol I'm currently working with a list of 3 so cool exaggeration bro. desperation posts ftw

If you want to join my efforts against Darla I'd be happy to pretend like we're on the same side for today.

[bobsnox]

What happened to the REAL Fate? needs more all-caps

[bobsnox]

Good stuff so far Fate. A Darla wagon looks tempting. Where is she?

what have I been saying gosh

[bobsnox]

Go figure Llamarble finds Darla town

[bobsnox]

Hmm a guarantee...

Ok

UNVOTE: Llamarble
VOTE: Darla

[bobsnox]

What I want, which you still haven't given me, is an actual explanation for why you think Llama is town, for what post or posts of his convinced you.

ahh I read into his "guarantee" that he was softclaiming an investigative role, but now I remember how he originally though Llamarble was scum...

I will gladly get back on the Llamarble wagon if Fate does not produce something convincing

[bobsnox]

Bub - I already said I thought Fate was softclaiming cop or something

[bobsnox]

Fate - I'll ISO Yos soon

[bobsnox]

Bub - I already said I thought Fate was softclaiming cop or something

Softclaiming cop is poor play. Pointing it out is worse.

I don't think I pointed out that I thought you were softclaiming until I realized you weren't actually softclaiming. There was nothing wrong with how I handled that IIRC.

Ok, as promised - Yos ISO summary:

Yos's first 5 posts looked good to me, but he does seem scummy when referring to the wagon on Darla (his 6th post). I pointed out how his 8th post was misguided in terms of chronology - not sure if it was scummy but it was wrong at least. He does linger on the idea that I was aggressively driving a Darla wagon - perhaps defending a scumbuddy? His request that I better explain my Darla post does not seem genuine to me - more like he is trying to avoid the Darla wagon. His 15th post is scummy for the fact that he makes it a point to state that he doesn't have a read on Darla at that time.

His 16th post is strange. He basically says "DLG and Bub have good reasons for voting Darla and you [bobsnox] don't." But in saying that, he implies that he still doesn't find the case against her convincing.

Alright, I'll play along for today:

UNVOTE: Darla
VOTE: Yosarian2

[bobsnox]

I don't believe that any town person would still be voting Marble right now.

Move your vote asap if you want me off your ass.

You would stop thinking Yos is scum if he unvotes Llamarble?...

[bobsnox]

He should have died day one, but the stupid townies on his wagon chickened out.

Why are you assuming townies chickened out?

[bobsnox]

yep

[bobsnox]

how about we lynch Bub or Darla today?

[bobsnox]

wooooowwww

can we PLEASE lynch Darla? This is ridiculous.

Fate - Darla today please?

[bobsnox]

I feel like Darla deserves to be lynched before Yos just on principle...

[bobsnox]

DLG - Darla or Yos?

[bobsnox]

Safest lynch today: Darla

[bobsnox]

oh hey look Darla is flying under the radar weird

Fate - You're going to be alive for 3-4 days apparently (lol), so let's get Darla today.

[bobsnox]

UNVOTE: Yos
VOTE: Darla

[bobsnox]

It seems like david parker is trying too hard to be town and be "reckless"
Not at all like this game where he was town
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=15559

I hate you werewolf, all this and thats all you have to fuckin say.

You useless fucking slot.

lolqft

[bobsnox]

yes let's lynch darla thanks

:tunnnnnnneeeeeelllllllllll:

[bobsnox]

lynch all darlas

[bobsnox]

1. Her top suspect was bobsnox, but she didn't mention him at all as a better choice. I expect townies to fight for their preference and scum to hop for convenience.

Thank you. I was about to say...

How she handled me smacked of scum.

[bobsnox]

Sounds like fate is pulling a lot out of his ass
VOTE: Fate

I could easily be persuaded to vote for werewolf.

[bobsnox]

@ bobsnox
What about werewolf555's vote of Fate made him yet another player you'd be willing to see hang? Timing? Being against your read of things?

Not so much that specific post I quoted but rather his general activity in the game.

Seems like scum trying to ride momentum and stay out of the spotlight.

[bobsnox]

bub bidderskins is scummy but he's not darla

so let's get him tomorrow

[bobsnox]

Vote count please?

[bobsnox]

Bob is STILL sheeping, and being aggressive and not giving any real reason at all for his votes. His posts are short and lacking content. I am going to be doing an ISO of him to prove this point, but I definitely would put him on my scum group.

Weird - pretty sure I'm the one who has tunneled you most consistently, so "sheeping" doesn't apply to my vote on you.

Being aggressive is not a scumtell, btw.

I gave at least one reason for why you're superscum: your interactions with me.

[bobsnox]

To be honest Darla, I haven't taken the game entirely seriously, I am playing to win though, but I am having some fun along the way. I do have to ask, what is wrong with the werewolf wagon at this point? When I first omgus'd him, it was partly to get his reaction, and partly because his case on me sucked and was more-or-less factually incorrect. My town meta is reckless. That's how I play in almost ALL of my town games. I be reckless in different ways in different games (ie: fake claiming sometimes, or sometimes just being super-extroverted, or pushing super hard certain lynches etc) but it's almost always reckless to some extent. (yeah omg self-meta!!!!!). My scum meta i'd say is less reckless, but it's not really cautious either at the same time. Anyways, point is, I don't play cautious. It's almost as if werewolf was testing the waters to push a lynch on me after my first few "non-serious" posts. Now, with his recent lack of content, and just general uselessness, i'm really quite happy with a werewolf vote, and would be even more happy with a werewolf lynch.

high five

we sound similar

woo

But really, let's lynch Darla.

[bobsnox]

@ bobsnox
Why did you let this go so easily?

I get tired of running into brick walls, basically.

Maybe you'll get something better out of him.

[bobsnox]

@ bobsnox
Why did you let this go so easily?

I get tired of running into brick walls, basically.

Maybe you'll get something better out of him.

Sure, but you didn't even press the point.

For me, it's highly important because I've had a reasonable town read on Bub Bidderskins for most of the game, and this issue is making me reconsider that stance.

sorry?

do you want me to do something at this point?

ISO him or something.

[bobsnox]

;_; I want my Darla lynch

UNVOTE: Darla

VOTE: Bub Bidderskins

[bobsnox]

@ Llamarble
Same question as the one to bobsnox, but even more I would have expected you to really go after this point as opposed to arguing about "chickened out".

I didn't think it was a huge issue; in that situation Bubtown thinks I'm scum and thus assumes the people on my wagon were likely townies. Or Bubscum knows they're townies. Or Bub is using townie as a substitute for "player" instead of "town-aligned player." I tend to care more about actions & logic than wording unless I see wording that strikes me as remarkably unlikely from one alignment.

I think that Bub's case of bad wording involved bad logic...

[bobsnox]

werewolf your posts are scanter than mine...

not good

[bobsnox]

I realize I haven't posted in close to 48 hours but I'm still here reading everything. Nothing I've seen since my last post has changed anything from my point of view.

[bobsnox]

loltownies

Is this a dead horse yet?

[bobsnox]

Should I start a lonely lil broken wagon? I'm not confident in the Bub wagon.

I tried... ;_;

It's just not meant to be today.

[bobsnox]

Hey bobs, why do you like the Bub wagon again? Is it mostly because of this:

Bub is scummy because he intentionally took it upon himself to criticize my play as scummy/poor while simultaneously acknowledging that he thinks I'm town. And all this while we're on the same wagon, trying to get Darla lynched.

Or is there more?

Nope that's about it.

My scum senses are tingling as well if that counts.

Stels acted a similar way toward me in Gorrad's Favorite Fictional Characters Mafia (ended recently) and I nailed that scumbag. I think it's often a scumtell when someone goes out of his way to criticize your play and call you town at the same time. I understand someone saying "Wow your play sucks and you seem scummy because of it" (like Whisky seemed) but this is like "hey you suck but you're town..." which is obviously not scumhunting whatsoever.

And I'm pretty sure townies are more concerned with scumhunting.

[bobsnox]

I still like my reads.

hey me too

post count +1.

Oh did you have anything else for me? I replied about Bub

[bobsnox]

I still like a Bub Bidderskins lynch. There is too much about his push against Llamarble I don't think makes sense - the "townie" confusion, the early Day 2 "FINALLY READ THE THREAD", etc.

Failing that, I'd be most willing to lynch DarlaBlueEyes. Setting aside whatever recent life events have made her unable to participate, her Day 1 play was the first serious suspicion I developed. In the few games I've played, I've found myself regretting letting go of early suspicions.

Darla lynch? Can it be?!

[bobsnox]

I don't see why we should kill bud,

has anybody seen something scummy from him?

so you're not reading? cool

[bobsnox]

Let's do Darla a favor and lynch her...

[bobsnox]

Darla is so scummy... I'd pay to be a vig right now.

[bobsnox]

Great job Llamarble!

[bobsnox]

Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Sounds like a scummy name

lol