Mafia 124 - Dilemma Mafia (Day 6)

[Final Fires]

/confirm

[Final Fires]

Howdy, all. Looking forward to a good game.

Pomegarnat

wrote:
Why is it that everywhere it says my name it's spelled incorrectly?

I don't know the answer to that. But, if it'll make you feel better to see it spelled correctly,
VOTE: Pomegranate

Oh the irony! I'm sorry that happened to you pomogromote

[Final Fires]

Vote: Yosari

Because all the cool kids are doing it. Plus he still hasn't posted.

[Final Fires]

Unvote: Yosari

Actually, now that I think about it, killing him off might not be such a good idea. (I assume) if he remains inactive he'll eventually be modkilled - lynching him would be a waste of our execution. And even if he's not modkilled, he won't be using any of his powers. As it is, he'll just have no influence on the game, and he's not worth killing off.

In a game of this size, is it safe to assume that there are about 3 mafia, give or take? I think it's pretty suspicious that three people have voted for him, without a lot of reasoning, while everyone else has just voted randomly. This is my first mafia game on this board, so I'm not sure how communication works between the mafia here. I've looked into a few other games here and it seems like suspicion is always cast on those people who try to draw out the first day - although I admit I don't completely understand why.

People who voted for Yos: Albert, Whiskey, Darla, and Me
People who haven't posted yet: Brokenscraps, Yosarian2

Now, I can promise you guys that I'm not scum, and I wouldn't bring up this point and cast suspicion on myself if I was. So if we eliminate my name from that list of yos. Both of those lists seem like they might be viable as the teams of mafia. Here's what I propose we do. Tonight we vote off one person who voted for yos - if they're innocent, let the other two go. If they're scum, pick off the other two. If tonight's execution is an innocent, then we move on to the next list of people. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Like I said earlier though, this is my first game of mafia here and I could've made a huge logical fallicy somewhere. But as of now, it seems like that's the best lead that we've got. If anyone else has a better idea, or the people who voted for Yos have a good explanation, I would be glad to change my vote.

Vote: Albert

[Final Fires]

I'm definately an overzealous newb townie

I know that posting that put a huge target on my back, but I don't understand how pointing out observations automatically makes me scum. True, jumping on the yos bandwagon was very dumb of me, and I should've thought it through before I voted for him. If I were scum, I would be laying low - I wouldn't put such a thought out post so early on. And in retrospect, calling out nearly half the players in one post wasn't my greatest move either. The first vote seems like it comes down to chance - so I noticed three people who 'happened' to be voting together, and just called them out. I would rather have some method to voting the first night, then just blindly voting for an inactive. If that makes me scummy, then so be it.

Let me just say though, if you vote me off, you won't only be voting off a townie, but a powerful townie at that. If you have to lynch me tonight then fine, but afterwards maybe you'll take my accusations seriously.

[Final Fires]

Well, it looks like my fate is pretty much sealed. I'm not expecting anyone to change their vote at this point, but I just thought I would address some points anyway.

um, it's

RVS

, SO SHUT UP

Yikes! First of all, let me apologize if anything I said offended you. The joke with your name wasn't intended to be personal by any means, and I really am sorry if you took it that way. However, there's no reason to be hostile because I was speculating who might be scum.

Noob town /=/ powerful townie. Beyond that I don't like your play at all, and your backtracking explanations don't sit well with me either. I'd have rather your vote sat on Yos than you act like you had some kind of mega-game-winning revelation in which you declare yourself 100% town and everyone else who's enjoying some RVS shenanigans scummy.

I didn't intend my post to be arrogant or to 'act like i had a game winning revelation'. That's why at the bottom I put:

Like I said earlier though, this is my first game of mafia here and I could've made a huge logical fallicy somewhere. But as of now, it seems like that's the best lead that we've got. If anyone else has a better idea, or the people who voted for Yos have a good explanation, I would be glad to change my vote.

Hey Final Fires welcome to the site. A couple of things:

1) Its still really early in Day 1 to call Yos inactive, and he'll most likely show up in a day or so, but if not its the mod's job to prod people that haven't made any posts in 72 hours or so. And this isn't a "BaM ruleset" so flakers would get replaced instead of modkilled.

2) Random Vote Stage (RVS) happens the first few pages to start getting information but its generally accepted that no one would have enough confidence or evidence to lynch someone yet. That usually takes a few weeks and tens of pages of case making and wagon building/falling/switching, etc.

3) Saying you're town, saying you would play scum differently than how you are playing now, saying that people will regret lynching you, or hinting that you may have a night ability generally don't help you. At worst people will scummy and want to lynch you more.

First of all Jahudo, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me. In the forum where I played before, the mafia games worked very differently. The days were 24 hours long, so the need to get a majority quickly was much more urgent, so as a result we didn't have an 'RVS'. Every vote was much more urgent and meaningful - which is why I mistook the three people voting as 'teaming together'. You could also communicate outside of the thread, so revealing your role and powers, as well as claiming your innocence was extremely important if you wanted to stay alive. However I understand now how doing what would've saved me there ended up digging me my own grave over here.

Final fires you got to laugh how your reasoning has everyone apart from you who voted for Yos as most probaly the scum, we just started. If the game was a bit older you would have my vote for that.

Yeah, as soon as I voted for yos I regreted it. I just saw a majority doing it and jumped on - but then I realized yos was the only one who had 'randomly' gotten more than one vote. Not a single other person had more than vote. I just assumed this was a team effort, and clumped the three together. It seemed like a logical conclusion at the time. Plus I really wanted to spark conversation and discussion about who could be evil.

If you have to lynch me tonight then fine, but afterwards maybe you'll take my accusations seriously.

This is bad reasoning. Even if you

are

town and were lynched right this second, your accusations are not thereby made more accurate (except in that the potential pool of suspects has just been reduced by one player). Town alignment does not equal omnisicience.

Very true. But next round it will at least give you a place to start discussion. Maybe a better way to phrase it would've been "maybe you'll reconsider my accusations". It's true that my accusations are weak, but I don't think you could make a case against anyone that isn't flimsy at this point. No matter what we have to kill someone off, and I realize my evidence is far from perfect, but we have to start somewhere.

I get the feeling that he voted Yos and the he looked back on his vote and thought that it looked scummy, so he had to invent a BS reason to unvote.

Wouldn't a long, drawn out post accusing others of being scum look much more scummy than simply voting for yos? My motives weren't to look 'less scummy', but instead point out an observation I made, for what I thought was a better vote.

[Final Fires]

Unvote: Albert

UNVOTE: Finalfires It's way to early to lynch so i'm going to unvote just incase he is a newbie.

And then just a few posts later...

It depends what you mean by him being a noob, he said he's a noob to this forum so he knows how to play so think before and decide what you mean by noob.

You unvoted me because I was a newb, but then later on it sounds like you're trying to convince rekirt that I'm not actually a newb? That seems conflicting to me. What was your intent with the latter post?

[Final Fires]

Ender, you never addressed my question (#76). Also, I'm very tempted to place my vote for you right now. It seems that the only argument for you is "He's not scum because he's acting scummy - that's just his meta!". That argument won't fly with me for long. With that being said, some more experienced players whom I trust seem to be ok with you, so for now I'm holding back my vote.

He's just really nooby, and while I am ~recognizing~ his scum-haviour, I am also noting that for once I have reliable meta on a player and can say that I do not intend to make the mistake of assuming his noobness to be scumness

without more solid proof

.

@Darla - You keep talking about how you want more solid proof before you cast a vote, but if this is the case why were you so quick to vote for Whiskey with very little reasoning or evidence?

Did I say that I "view Final Fires as town"? I said that I have a null (aka neutral) read on him, which is not the same thing.

I believe Bub was referring to this:

Honestly, I simply meant to tell you to stop being so serious, and although it may have seemed hostile, it wasn't meant to be. I have a null-overeager-newb read on you ATM.

(When we were discussing if I was an over-eager newb or an over-controlling scum.)

Where are brokenscraps, Jahudo, and Nikanor?

Brokenscraps posted on a thread just today. I'm not sure if this is sign of a scum (lurking I believe - or is this too early?) but I'll leave it to the more experienced players to interpret it for what it's worth, if anything at all.

@ALL: Who thinks DBE's post 77 about Whisky is still valid? Who understands what Whisky said?

I don't think many of DBE's points stand now, but there's one that still needs an answer:

and what about him besides his vote on ender to you find scummy? Because several other people voted ender too, why not look at them? What's your read on the other members of the ender-wagon?

Whiskey would you mind addressing this?

[Final Fires]

Who, in particular, are you willing to follow this way and what makes anyone that trustworthy this early? If ender241 seems scummy enough to pressure this way, why not vote him? This seems like a combination of ender241 and DarlaBlueEyes in one argument.

I want to give him an opportunity to respond before placing my vote. We've still got a lot of time left for discussion, and at this point there's no benefit to me rushing a vote on him, especially when waiting could result in more information to make my decision. Also, I use the word 'trust' loosely. I 'trust' the people who I feel like I at least have somewhat of a read on as town. For example, I'm a lot more 'trusting' of your posts, then say, Ender's. However, that doesn't mean that I know that you're town or that ender is scum - it's just suspicion. So if some of the players who I 'trust' seem to think Ender is a town, I wanted a little bit more time to collect info and think about it before I place my vote on him.

Yes, it could just be a conservative play style, but townies have an incentive to play aggressive. They must act. The mafia are the ones who want to play conservative, so as to not look scummy early on.

Under this logic it seems like it makes more sense to vote Albert or Nikanor (or maybe even Bob). Darla has at least contributed towards the discussion, which in my opinion is much more aggressive than just voting while not adding much to the discussion.

I'm on the fence with Darla by the way. I am able to believe that she is just a conservative player, but some insight towards her meta would be very helpful. If no one posts anything about it soon, I'll do some digging.

@ender: do you have a finished scum game on this site?

I went through ender's games earlier, and I saw one where he was scum. It seems like as a mafia his posts are much more 'fluff' and he tries to divert the conversation away from serious matters (although I only looked at a few of his posts). I used to be pretty confident he was scum, but now I'm not so sure; his gameplay in this thread seems to align more with how he plays town. He still does have some questions to answer, and in my opinion is still a viable vote, but it seems Darla was right on his meta. I'm keeping him on my scumdar, but I'm not as confident in my earlier conviction that he was scum.

[Final Fires]

Warning: Huge wall of text. Go to the bottom if you want the short version.

Vote: Ender

The more and more I think about this, the better I feel about this vote. If the lynch is coming down to him and Darla, I would definately prefer him to be lynched. Darla at least makes points and adds to the discussion - for that reason alone she's less suspicious than ender to me. DLG brings up a good point with her lack of commitment, and I am still very suspicious of her, but right now I feel like ender is the better choice overall.

Also, I'm starting to get a little bit suspicious about Bub. His last post really bothered me, but I couldn't quite figure out why. His argument against Darla seemed for the most part quoted out of context.

Ender, wtf? Vote, unvote, vote. You shouldn't be scared to run somebody up if you think they're scum, but I get what you were saying with your unvote. I do not like your re-vote, however. That "happy now?" sounded like you just re-voted because somebody asked you to.

FOS: ender

Bub keeps talking about how if you're town you'll vote aggressively; but why then did he carry out a vote for everyone else he was suspicious of, but not for ender? Also, immediately after this post (within one minute) he made another post...

Even though ender looks scummy, Darla looks like scum.

unvote; vote DarlaBlueEyes

That's two back-to-back mini-wagons that she said "oh, he looks scummy, but I'm going to reserve my vote" that kind of hesitancy with her vote indicates scum to me. A townie wouldn't be afraid to vote for somebody he or she thinks is scum. Essentially, she said she approved of the wagons, but didn't get on them.

This might only be a small grievance, but it bothers me how quick he was to switch the attention from ender to darla. This is something I haven't been able to shake all game, and is another reason why I'm voting for ender. If ender does turn out to be town, then I will feel a lot better about Bub. Bub is a strong player in this game, and arguably I would say his posts have some of the biggest impact in swaying people's opinions (so far anyways). It would be a huge mistake for us as a town to wait around to figure out if he's town or scum. Some other things that worried me:

@ender: What was it about rekirtS' post that made you want to revote Final Fires?

This is kind of a weak question from the start, but ender also gave a weak answer:

Basically i really don't know in my last game (which i have recently been killed as doc which was a newbie game) i did it alot i should really stick to my votes...

And Bub hasn't mentioned it since. Now contrast this to his rebuke for Darla's weak answer to his question (Post 102). Overall I just feel like this whole game bub has been trying to (subtly) take the attention off of ender and put it on darla.

Let me make this clear: I don't have a problem that Bub is making a case against Darla. What bothers me is that it almost seems like his case is more to create a distraction away from Ender. I think that Bub is a very, very smart player that we shouldn't let go under our radar. I'm not proposing that we lynch him tonight; if he is town he could be a powerful asset to us. Bub's alignment is also an important reason why I'm voting for ender; I think ender's alignment will tell us a lot about bob's intentions. If darla does turn out to be scum, that would tell us a lot too. But if darla is innocent, it would be easy to chalk off bub's argument's as an innocent mistake. Ender's death, either way, will make me feel a lot better about my read on bub.

Nobody should be taking my points on Bub very seriously right now - I know I shouldn't be connecting dots before someone has died, but once I saw it it's been hard to not notice. Normally I would wait to bring this up on day 2, but I have a feeling I won't make it through the night. It's just an observation so that if I'm not here on day 2, you guys can still discuss it. Right now it's really not worth talking about much more, because this is a lot of speculation, but tommorow it could be critical.

I really dont like this post you seem to be all over that place finding someone to pin the scum tag on. I also dont like how u ask someone a question about there actions on other players, normally this is sort of ok but here im sure this is another tactic to deflect the chat from you.

And whats all this phone business? we all have stuff to do. have some more time on the phone

vote Darla

This post bothers me a lot. Whiskey how has she "pinned the scum tag" on anybody? You're essentially arguing that, by her asking questions, she's scrambling to find scum. Isn't that what everybody is doing? Everybody has made accusations, and everybody has been questioning each other's behavior since the second page. Also, what question did she ask that bothered you?

FoS: Morewhisky

It seems hypocritical that you're argument against her is that you "don't like how [she] ask

someone a question about there actions as a player", and then go on to question her about why she's playing from her phone - which so far seems like the only unreasonable question that has been asked.

TL;DR - I think Ender's death is the best for several reasons:

1) His just generally scummy behavior (see my previous posts)
2) He still hasn't even attempted to make a defense for himself
3) I think his death will give us the most insight towards other players - especially bub and less so morewhiskey (as well as several others)

I think bub is a little suspicious, but not day one lynching suspicious. I feel like he's spent a lot of energy keeping the discussion on darla and away from ender. If ender turns out to be innocent (or if darla is scum) I'll trust bub, but if he's evil Bub will be at the top of my list.

I think Whiskey's reason for voting for darla is completely ridiculous, and makes me even more suspicious of him.

[Final Fires]

If the lynch is coming down to him and Darla, I would definately prefer him to be lynched. Darla at least makes points and adds to the discussion - for that reason alone she's less suspicious than ender to me. DLG brings up a good point with her lack of commitment, and I am still very suspicious of her, but right now I feel like ender is the better choice overall.

Why were you comparing ender and Darla like you have to choose between them? Darla isn't your #2 suspect is she?

No, she's more towards the middle of my list. However, so far it seems like tonight's vote is likely going to come down to ender or darla (or potentially whiskey now), which is why I compared them like I had to choose. I could've voted for someone other than those two, but doing so wouldn't put on a lot of pressure.

[Final Fires]

Darla, this is the 3rd time you've changed your vote since page 4. Comparing this to the start, where you played very cautiously, and were unwilling to even place a (serious) vote, you're play style really seems to be changing. You spent a lot of time ISO'ing Striker and Whiskey, and then out of nowhere you vote Bob? I understand that you said you were going to do more ISO's, but still, that seems really strange to me.

I went back and did an ISO of Bob too, and I agree that I don't really like the way he explains his posts. It's true that he is very brief, and sometimes hostile, but I'm not sure if that's just Bob's meta or a scumtell (right now I'm leaning more towards the first). One thing that bothered me was how he said he's not big on regurgitation, but then he goes on to post:

I like how DLG is thinking

and

DLG summed up my thoughts on Darla - "grasping at straws." She's also, as has been pointed out before, covering herself as she comments on her suspects.

Both of which are pretty much exactly what DLG said. His posting style seems to take a much more aggressive tone once Darla pointed suspicion towards striker and whiskey (potential chainsaw defense? It wasn't that dramatic, but there definitely was a slight change in the attitude of his posts). He is someone we should keep an eye on, but right now I kind of think it's more just his meta than anything else.

[Final Fires]

That leaves only one thing left to do, and I apologize in advance for this out of game outburst, but I just have to do it...

GO PACKERS!!!

FoS: Bub

Only scum like the packers

add Final Fires to the grasping at straws group

how the heck does FF know my meta? I've played 2 games here and none with him.

I love the OMGUS votes I'm engendering as well. give scum an easy target and watch how fast they flock to the fresh blood.

my vote is confirmed

1. How have I been grasping at straws? If you were town you would be explaining your arguments, because it would benefit the whole town. Same thing when you simply said "I think darla and final are scum buddies". Do you have any reasons or proof, or do you just think that? It's beneficial to everyone if you point out what you know, and just making statements without backing them up seems very anti-town to me.
2. I can easily look at your profile and see your past games, just as I have done for a majority of the players here. I obviously don't know your meta very well, but after looking at a few posts I can at least get a pulse for how you play. Your posting style seems very much consistant with how you post now - brief and occassionally hostile. However, I must've not gone through yours well enough, because I looked again and realized that you've been scum in one of them, and the other one you're still alive in. If I was judging you by saying "He seems consistent with his meta" and I now realize the only meta I have on you is scum, then it seems like a logical jump that you might be scum.
3. What do you think makes you an easy target? Or at least an easier target than anyone else?

If we lynch DBE and she flips town, bobsnox and whisky should be suspects number one and two.

Any thoughts on rekirtS if that scenario comes to pass?

Looking back on Striker's posts, it looks like every single one was made with the intention of building up the Darla bandwagon. If she flips innocent I'd say he's a top suspect too.

Am i right in thinking Darla is the next suspect of kill if i'm killed? If you all think Darla's mafia feel free to take me out to give proof to everyone else about Darla.

This post confused me a lot, and I agree with Yos that it would help a lot if we knew where your intentions were coming from. I have a feeling though that they might be pro-town though; that really doesn't seem like something scum would say. I can kind of relate to this because I made a very similar mistake early on when I felt like a lynch against me was inevitable:

If you have to lynch me tonight then fine, but afterwards maybe you'll take my accusations seriously.

For now

Unvote Ender

Vote: Bobsnox

I may unvote depending on how bob defends himself.

[Final Fires]

"Don't lynch me! You'll be sorry!" Newb? Ok I can buy that. But someone to keep an eye on for sure.

Darla please try to lynch me. I will be happy when I flip town and you are on the top of the to-be-lynched list for tomorrow.

By your own argument you're someone to keep an eye on.

I may unvote depending on how bob defends himself.

You need a bullet tonight after we lynch Darla. That's scummy. Maybe you always give yourself a way out if the ship sinks, but that's scummy.

1. This is definately grasping at straws, which you label as something scummy.
2. It's also just wrong. I've made three votes (Albert, Ender, and now you), and I was reasonable with my level of commitment to each one according to how strongly I felt about them. Reread my vote against ender and quote anything that "gave me a way out". Besides, barely explaining why you voted for some one is pretty much the same thing you're accusing me of - "always [giving] yourself a way out if the ship sinks". Again, by your own argument, you're scummy.

It seems like your guilty of the scum behavior your accusing others of, minus worrying about content.

[Final Fires]

@ Final Fires
Can you explain how your attacks of bobsnox are not indicative of a chainsaw defense of Darla?

My accusations towards him weren't in defense of Darla. Darla brought up suspicion towards Bob, and I looked into it doing an ISO of my own. I brought up some points (see post 179), concluded that he's suspicious, but not bandwagon worthy quite yet.

Rather than rationally responding to any of the points I brought up, he just responded:

add Final Fires to the grasping at straws group

how the heck does FF know my meta? I've played 2 games here and none with him.

I love the OMGUS votes I'm engendering as well. give scum an easy target and watch how fast they flock to the fresh blood.

my vote is confirmed

As soon as I questioned him he immediately turned around, and instead of defending himself said "OMGUS towards me! Final is grasping at straws for analyzing my play!". This made me very suspicious - everyone has been questioned to some extent, but no one thus far has panicked for having suspicion shed on them. At this point I thought it was time to put some pressure on, so I changed my vote to him. Again I pointed out his suspicious plays on 185, and at the bottom I noted that if he provided a good defense this time, I would be glad to unvote him. Rather than rationally defending himself he just said:

His posting style seems to take a much more aggressive tone once Darla pointed suspicion towards striker and whiskey (potential chainsaw defense? It wasn't that dramatic, but there definitely was a slight change in the attitude of his posts).

^ Grasping at straws

[...]

It's funny how hard some of you are trying to find legitimate reasons to wagon on me. Trying to cover all your bases to avoid the scenario I just mentioned

I may unvote depending on how bob defends himself.

You need a bullet tonight after we lynch Darla. That's scummy. Maybe you always give yourself a way out if the ship sinks, but that's scummy.

This response just screams scum to me. I made it clear I wanted him to defend instead of just brushing it off and then throwing empty accusations back at me, but so far he has not been able to do that. To me, that's very scummy and a significant reason why my vote on him is still standing. Take into account how conflicting some of his posts are (see post 196), and I feel like so far the scummiest person is Bob.

[Final Fires]

At the moment i think it's bobsnox.

You think what's bobsnox?

"Don't lynch me! You'll be sorry!" Newb? Ok I can buy that. But someone to keep an eye on for sure.

Darla please try to lynch me. I will be happy when I flip town and you are on the top of the to-be-lynched list for tomorrow.

By your own argument you're someone to keep an eye on.

What are you even trying to say? I didn't say "Don't lynch me you'll be sorry!"... so you lost me big time

True you didn't come out and say "Don't lynch me or you'll be sorry!", but the same thing can be inferred. All I was trying to say is that if you were us, you would be suspicious of you too.

I may unvote depending on how bob defends himself.

You need a bullet tonight after we lynch Darla. That's scummy. Maybe you always give yourself a way out if the ship sinks, but that's scummy.

1. This is definately grasping at straws, which you label as something scummy.

No, you're definitely playing it safe by setting up a possible egress in case the ship sinks. That's not hard to see. If it's your normal behavior, you normally behave like scum.

2. It's also just wrong. I've made three votes (Albert, Ender, and now you), and I was reasonable with my level of commitment to each one according to how strongly I felt about them. Reread my vote against ender and quote anything that "gave me a way out".

By using the phrase "maybe you always" I did not mean to convey a sense that I have analyzed your previous votes and found such a recurring playstyle. I was suggesting that if (IF) that's your normal behavior, then you play scummy.

Then why even suggest it if you admit its baseless? Just to make your "case" against me look less fluff?

Besides, barely explaining why you voted for some one is pretty much the same thing you're accusing me of - "always [giving] yourself a way out if the ship sinks". Again, by your own argument, you're scummy.

what the...

Uhhh no

it's not

at all

remotely

If you do an ISO of your posts, you'll see that every vote you made you could've easily avoided suspicion the next day if they flipped town. That's just as much giving yourself a way out if the ship sinks, albeit in a different way.

@DLG's post 202 - I've agreed with most of what you've had to say so far, and you raise a good point. I still think Bob is scum, but you're right that it will take at least one night's worth of actions to prove this. Bub's post (200) also brings up the best point I think I've heard so far: We learn the most from Darla's death (this was a significant reason why I originally voted for ender - at the time I thought the most could be learned from his death). For that reason alone...

Unvote: Bob

I'll wait to vote darla, so that no one accidently hammers.

[Final Fires]

@mod: will post as much as possible but will have internet issues over the next few days

For that reason alone...

"Most learnt from lynch" is not a good reason by itself. If you think she is scummy vote her, otherwise don't (1. she could be a town powerrole, 2. you almost always learn more from hitting scum). If you think bob is scum and darla isn't you should be arguing against the still-not-inevitable darla lynch. I'm suspicious that you'd really support a lynch for that reason.

It's no secret I think bob is scum and want him out. If we lynch darla, and she flips town, his fate is sealed. Striker and Bub will also be top suspects. If she flips scum, then ender (and maybe myself) will be a top priority to out. Either way she flips, the next lynch lends to lynching someone who I think is scum, excluding myself obviously. On the flipside, if we vote off ender and he flips scum, we know to vote off whiskey, bub, darla, or rekirsts next. If he flips town, we have pretty much nothing, other than whiskey looking less suspicious. If we vote off bob, and he flips scum, we don't have much to go off of other than a few confirmed townies (not really even confirmed - they could be bussing). If he flips town then Darla and I (and maybe flinter) will be the next candidates for a lynch.

By voting darla, I'm ensuring that no matter what happens tonight, we'll at least learn something important for tommorow's vote. It would be horrible if our first lynch didn't go the way we expected, and on Day 2 we're sitting here with almost no new information, and on top of that a dead townie.

I've made all the points I can against ender and bob, but as of now a majority of people think Darla's wishy-washy voting is scummier than people who act scummy, but get away with it because "that's just how they play". It's Day 1 and each case has a lot of flaws, pros, and cons. I can see the benefit of voting for Darla, and overall I thought the pros outweighed the cons. I would prefer a bandwagon on bob, but I don't think that people will support that vote until we've voted off Darla.

FF work on reading comprehension. <---- serious statement

Please lynch me =/= don't lynch me you'll be sorry

etc.

this is annoying

"Please lynch me" in a sarcastic manner = don't lynch me you'll be sorry

No response for my other points? Unless the 'etc' was meant as an answer to them?

[Final Fires]

Well, per your request...

Vote: Bobsnox

And Bob, I'm not sure what you mean by saying I haven't been trying to get a bandwagon on you, because I absolutely have. I said the main reason I voted darla was for knowledge. Knowledge that if she was town, we could go ahead and vote you off. The only reason I unvoted was because I knew there wasn't going to be enough momentum to get a wagon on you on Day 1, but I think you just got the ball rolling.

[Final Fires]

And also...

"bob I'll unvote you as soon as you do something townish because I don't really want to vote you in the first place" <--- rough paraphrase of his initial vote on me

You haven't done anything even remotely townish, so this reasoning is off.

And since when have you been after yos? It seems like you just go after whoever accuses you. Darla, me, bub, and now yos. OMGUS?

[Final Fires]

Yes sir. This just confirmed it for me.

[Final Fires]

And also...

"bob I'll unvote you as soon as you do something townish because I don't really want to vote you in the first place" <--- rough paraphrase of his initial vote on me

You haven't done anything even remotely townish, so this reasoning is off.

And since when have you been after yos? It seems like you just go after whoever accuses you. Darla, me, bub, and now yos. OMGUS?

why is it that you don't understand anything I'm saying? I never said I did anything townish. YOU said you'd UNVOTE ME if I SHOWED SIGNS OF BEING TOWN OR WHATEVER. WHICH IS RIDICULOUS - IF YOU VOTE SOMEONE, VOTE THEM. DON'T GIVE THEM/YOURSELF A WAY OUT OF BEING VOTED/VOTING. That was my point. You put a farcical vote on me with the condition that you would take it off prima facie should I behave in a manner to your liking. My whole point was to show how ridiculous that is. "Bob just act like town and I'll unvote you"????? That's akin to saying "Bob I KNOW you're town (because I'm scum), so don't make me keep my vote on you AND GET MYSELF LYNCHED IN RETURN"

WHEN DID I AT ALL HINT THAT I THOUGHT YOS WAS SCUM? I DIDN'T. I DIDN'T EVEN IMPLY I THOUGHT YOS WAS SCUM.

Oh dear. Caps. And rage.

First of all, I never said I would unvote you if you did anything townish. I said if you had a good defense, I would be glad to unvote you. You didn't. So my vote stayed. I think that's perfectly fair - if people have a solid explanation for their behavior, then it makes sense to unvote them. See page 2, my initial "post of doom" and then later my explanation. It was fair for people to unvote me, because I had a legitemate reason for acting the way I did.

At that point in time I used my vote more as a method of getting answers out of you. If asking you to elaborate and at least explain the points you were making is trying to manipulate you "in a manner to my liking", then yes, I absolutely did. I don't have a problem with being brief, but being brief to the point where it's anti-town bothers me.

You just said "my tactic... yos's head". I think it's fair to say that everyone who read that assumed you meant you wanted yos dead (when you say you want someone's head, this is normally what it suggests). This either implies you're town and you think he's scum, or you're scum and you just want him dead.

And if I were scum, why on earth would I ask you to act townish? No one could blame me the next day if you acted scummish. I asked you to elaborate so we could get more info to go from, but you gave practically nothing. If I didn't want to vote you, I wouldn't have. My vote on ender was fine, and I could've easily stayed there if I had wanted to.

[Final Fires]

(And I do realize I misinterpreted 253. I missed the word "initial". Sorry about that)

[Final Fires]

Wow. I had a nice long post, but I accidently deleted twice :/ Awesome. Sorry guys, but this is the semi-abbreviated version:

Darla and ender being scum together? wow i would have never thought of that but it seems to make sense. Top idea Bob im gona look into that more.

This is a weak answer. It was a yes or no question, and whisky answered, "Well maybe...". Whisky if you need more time to look into it please do so. Once you've formed an opinion please answer bob's question again with a more definitive answer, and preferably an explanation too.

DLG also brings up a really good point. Plus I find it hard to believe that anyone never even considered darla and ender being scum buddies at some point in this game.

I'll just have to redeem this slot by CATCHING ALL THE SCUMS MWAHAHA!

This seems a little scummy. In the few games that I've read through, the mafia will occassionally post something to the extent of, "Let's go town!" "I hope we catch a mafia!" etc in the hopes that they'll look more town by doing so.

One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working! Im not scum im town, ive told you who the main cuprits are Darla and the new llamarble.

And llamrble i do like your posts very nicely done.

1. If you're town, you wouldn't have any problems or fear posting. This is because you don't have to worry about keeping your stories straight; if your reasons are genuine you'll be able to explain them if questioned later.
2. This seems excessively flattering to llama. Not that llama's posts aren't good or anything, but why compliment them? Compare llama's posts to say... fishy's and this seems very out of place. Whisky did some similar buddy-buddy things with ender too. He pointed out the scummy things ender did, wrote it up to him being a newb, and then voted yos.
3. Whisky could you clarify what you mean by Darla and llamarble being the main culprits? Of posting too much?

Llama also seemed super weak with his opinion on Whisky:

Whiskey looks scummy, but we'll see how things appear once I'm fully caught up.

This post is very wishy-washy, with little reasoning to back it up. This "well maybe he could be, but i'm not sure..." attitude raises a red flag for me.

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

He is tunneling/voteparked on DBE but doesn't like the other members of the wagon on her.
He has lined up Bobsnox or Whiskey lynches for D2 in the event of a Darlatownflip.
I'm not really impressed by his case on DBE.
Yosarian is also kind of scummy looking.

Then again Whisky is also pretty bad.
Why does everyone in this town have a lynch lined up for after Darla/Ender???

1. This is again a wishy-washy stance on whisky.
2. Whisky also thinks yos is pretty scummy looking. Coincidence? I kind of doubt it.

Unvote

Sorry bob, I know I said unconditional, but right now I think Whisky is the better vote. If it's any consolation, you're still towards the top of my scum list (3rd, only after whiskey and llama).

Vote: Whisky

[Final Fires]

@FF: Wow, if that's the abbreviated version...
Concision is pro-town.

When I say I'm going to redeem the slot by finding scum, that doesn't mean "Find me town now" it means "find me town after I help us lynch scum."

My opinions are changing rapidly as I review the available information because I just joined and have only read through fully once. Calling me scum because I say my read isn't solid due to my not having read the whole thread is ridiculous.

All my posts have been long, but earlier you said you thought I was town. If it's the length of post that bothers you, you would've accused me of being anti-town straight away. Saying it now just looks like an OMGUS.

I understand what you said, but it's still a somewhat common tell. If it had only been that post I would've mentioned it, but not found it that suspicious. That in conjunction with the ender (and you now)/whisky buddy system, and all the other points brought up is what prompted my vote.

One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working! Im not scum im town, ive told you who the main cuprits are Darla and the new llamarble.

And llamrble i do like your posts very nicely done.

Earlier you claimed you never thought of darla/ender being scum together. Now you're claiming you told us that darla and llamarble were "the main culprits"? Lie #2. You even said ender was newbtown, not scummy!

I am happy with either a llama lynch or a whisky lynch. I thought about it for a little, and I think that they're both scum. However, if we lynched whisky the only thig we learn is to lynch llama next. If we lynch llama, we can look back at how people reacted to the ender bandwagon. (And of course lynch whisky tommorow).

Unvote

Vote: Llama

One more to hammer.

[Final Fires]

I thought maybe darla and llamarble are scum buddies, but ive now gone off that idea, im not gona join the Bw on llamarble.

Just in his last post:

The reason i complimented Llamarble on his posts is because i do believe ender and Darla are on the same side,scum. So llamarble had/has an uphill struggle taking over from ender. And hes doing a nice job of it.

Just a few posts ago you felt confident ender and darla were scum. You even claimed you pointed out that they were the "main culprits" to us! Why the sudden change of heart?

One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working! Im not scum im town,

ive told you who the main cuprits are Darla and the new llamarble.

And llama, a lot of your points against bub were that he tunneled in the darla wagon. But with that being said, at the time people were mostly torn between two votes: Ender and Darla. If you're assuming that he's evil, then why was he spending so much time making sure ender didn't get lynched? Wouldn't assuming bub is evil allow us to assume that he was just protecting a fellow scum buddy?

Bub is one of those people who I feel like I won't have a solid read on until after the first lynch. However if we were to assume that Bub was lynched and did flip scum, then you would be one of my top target for a day two lynch. Maybe the reason you feel so confident that he's scum is because you actually do know? It seems kind of like a bus attempt, because it was so out of nowhere. No one had been excessively suspicious of him before; the fact that you pick up on things that nobody else does suggests you know more than us.

[Final Fires]

I'll go ahead and address your Bub case (All the quotes are Bubs, except the first. Bold is llama):

Oh yeah Bub has been trying real hard not to get me lynched... Scum don't care which townie they lynch. D1 they want to be thought of as trying to scumhunt and they want to get a townie lynched. Bub never said anything like "we shouldn't lynch Ender because stuff." Bubscum has been fine with either lynch all along. And you saying I'm probably scum if Bub flips scum is RIDICULOUS. I am voting him because I see his play as scummy, and as has been pointed out I was not even the first to notice his scummy behavior.

1. Bub tunnels his vote on Darla, despite ender's scummy play.
2. He spends a lot of time interrogating darla, practically none on ender.
3. Once things start to look hopeless, he switches his vote to ender.

If you were in my position, and for some reason bub was lynched and flipped scum, wouldn't the logical thing to do be to lynch you next?

I really find whisky to be kind of strange. He has a... unique way of expressing himself that can be dificult to understand. Having said that, his vote on DBE looks really bad. Seriously, you vote for somebody because they say their on the phone? That's a seriously crappy reason to get on the biggest bandwagon.

Painting the bandwagon he supposedly believes is on scum as driven by opportunistic scum.

Scum will jump on bandwagons too. There's nothing wrong with accusing someone on a bandwagon you started as being scum - because they might be. Especially since whisky just voted darla because she was on her phone. I feel like him accusing whisky of voting for darla for scummy reasons was a fair accusation at the time.

If we lynch DBE and she flips town, bobsnox and whisky should be suspects number one and two.

OMG LINING UP LYNCHES MUCH?

This is more a newb question than anything, but what's wrong with lining up lynches? It seems natural that if some people flip a certain way, then we can begin to associate them with how others reacted to them. Especially because if we did lynch DBE and she flipped town, bob and whisky would've been top suspects the next day (alongside bub of course). Plus saying that "we should be suspicious of" isn't the same as lining up a lynch.

I agree that bob looks really scummy if you assume that you are town. Since I do not hold that assumption, I do not feel that bobsnox is very scummy. However, if it so happens that you are town, then bob is extremely scummy. I've already said that. I feel bad repeating myself.

Continuing to build cases against people he supposedly thinks are helping him lynch scum.

Again, I feel like the statement bub made was fair. Assuming darla's innocence lends itself to assuming that bob is at least a little scummy.

My vote will stay on DarlaBlueEyes. I think that she is the most probable scum, and I have already demonstrated why. However there is another reason to lynch her, and that is the fact that we will gain the most knowledge based on her lynch.

I'MMA DISTANCE MYSELF FROM A DARLA TOWNFLIP SOMEMORE.

I don't see how this is distancing at all. In fact, it seems like the opposite to me. He's still trying to get people to switch their vote, and is still providing reasons why people should vote for her.

[bub] is tunneling/voteparked on DBE but doesn't like the other members of the wagon on her.
He has lined up Bobsnox or Whiskey lynches for D2 in the event of a Darlatownflip.
I'm not really impressed by his case on DBE.

Okay, so you said you're not impressed with the case on Darla.

Way to not respond to my case on you

But you also said:

What you said (on your reasoning why to vote him) is pretty much irrefutable. However, voteparking in itself isn't scummy if you really believe the person you're voting for will flip scum. (Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe) Yos has voteparked too, but right now he's not consider scummy. And likewise, some lynches are natural if the lynchee flips a certain way. If darla was town, then I do agree that bob, whiskey, (or bub) lynches be the best choice for day 2. Would you disagree with that?

Especially because I consider whisky and bob scummy, I actually found that more towny than scummy.

So you don't like my case on Darla, but you think she's scum?

As I've said, I replaced into this game a couple of days ago and am still figuring it out. I never thought your case against Darla was good, but I thought she might be scum for lack of scumhunting effort. At this point she looks town and you look like scum

.

There's not really anything to address, but just to be fair I put in here anways .

After some thought, I'm going to

unvote; vote: Llamarble

The Darla wagon seems to have fizzled out, and Llamarble's contradictions are perhaps even worse than ender's questionable play. As for more whisky, I don't know. I want to hear his response to some of the questions directed at him, though.

OSHI HE CAUGHT ME, LYNCH HIM FAST GUYZ! THE WAGON I WAS PUSHING THAT STILL HAS A NUMBER OF VOTES ISN'T GOING ANYWHERE, BUT I DON'T ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT LYNCHING SCUM SO WHATEV! I'MMA FENCESIT ON MOREWHISKY SOME MORE EVEN THOUGH HE'S CONTINUING TO HELP VOTE PEOPLE I SUPPOSEDLY THINK ARE SCUM

This isn't really a fair translation at all. If we were to assume he's scum, it would be more like, "UHOH THEY ARE GOING TO LYNCH LLAMA! I'D BETTER START BUSSING!" If we were to assume he's town it would be, "The Darla wagon seems to have fizzled out, and Llamarble's contradictions are perhaps even worse than ender's questionable play. As for more whisky, I don't know. I want to hear his response to some of the questions directed at him, though." Plus if he were scum and you were town, why would he change his vote? That way he couldn't be held accountable if you did flip innocent the next day.

I don't really have time to address all the other posts, but I feel good about this lynch.

Please claim.

[Final Fires]

(Skip to last sentence for short version)

It's a triumph of rhetoric that I really doubt BB actually believes:
1. Tries to undermine Llama because the latter writes in capitals. Painting your opponent as desperate scum is always easier than actually analysing their play.
2. Calls Llama's case on BB weak because it's built on the contradictions of Llama changing on DBE, and of disliking both DBE and BB. This is incredibly weak. First, he makes no attempt to address Llama's (entirely believable) claim that his reads changed while he was catching up. Second, Llama's contradiction, or lack of it, is totally irrelevant to his case on BB. It's totally valid to call both DBE and BB scummy, and be more certain about either than the other. Thirdly, BB simply doesn't bother to defend the actual points! Trying to discredit the attacker instead of defending yourself is a scummy way to go about things.
3. Accuses Llama of trying to speedlynch him! He is comparing trying to build a wagon in a week with demanding claims and hammer. These are clearly incomparable, and this is just BB trying to win an argument.
That's really what that whole post is about. BB is trying to win an argument. Not to defend himself, not to rebut Llama, but to get Llama lynched - and he's happy for truth to fall by the wayside to achieve that. It's a very scummy attitude.

1. Maybe I misunderstood bub, but I read his post thinking he was kidding about the capital letter thing. He put [/sarcasm] at the end, so I'm pretty sure it was just a joke.
2. I agree with most of this point, but it seemed like llama did the same thing. When he had seven votes against him, his first reaction was to try to shift the wagon to bub over defending himself.
3. Again, I agree with this.

I don't think that the case against bub is particularly weak, but I don't think it's any stronger than the ender case. With that being said, I do think the case against whisky is stronger than the bub case. As far as I'm aware, pretty much everyone has vocalized agreement that whisky is scum. Please correct me if there are any mistakes on this list:

People who have stated whisky is scum:

1. DLG (Pointed out Whisky's lie, post 287) (Tried to bandwagon whisky, but was content with llama wagon)
2. Bobsnox (Voted for llama wagon, his only explanation being "are whisky and ender scumbuddies? hmm" Post 294)
3. Final Fires (Voted whisky, long explanation. See 297)
4. Jahudo ("Pretty obvious contradiction from whisky." Post 307)
5. Brokenscraps (Whisky is on his list, but would prefer a llama lynch, Post 310)
6. Llamarble (Said he looks scummy, but he still has reading to catch up with. Post 274) (Said whisky looks pretty bad, Post 288) (Said he thinks whisky was being sarcastic when he contradicted himself, but is still a likely "bidderbuddy", post 318)


People who are on the fence or haven't expressed an opinion:

1. Fishy (Said he had more whisky questions, and would follow up once whisky answere'd DLG's questions, but that never happened. It could just be an accident, but it's worth noting that by not following up conversation on whisky immediately ceased. It's also scummy that he's the one who switched his vote when we were near a lynch. Twice. 299.
2. Flinter (No comment - she is busy until Monday)
3. Bub Bidderkins (Ignored whisky entirely, and quickly switched to llama wagon once whisky wagon began to gain momentum. Post 308)
4. Darla (Sickness)
5. Nickanor (What's new? )

People who think whisky is town:

1. Whisky (I'm not scum I'm town! Post 293)

Sorry to whoever I'm missing!

Just to be honest, when I was rereading the thread it seemed like the whisky bandwagon was quickly pushed aside. Bub shifted to the llama wagon very quickly too, just in time to kill its momentum. The bub case deserves more attention that it's gotten; but it won't have much ground unless darla turns out innocent or whisky flips scum. As for the llama case, I feel he's scummy, but I'm glad that llama is at least posting, which is more than can be said for whisky. If he makes it past tonight, and we did lynch bub, and bub did flip town, he would gain a lot more trust. The question is if we have enough time to allow all that to happen - if all of that doesn't happen, I'm still fairly confident that llama is scum.

This was just a long way to say that I'm still happy with the llama wagon, but if we do switch wagons, I would prefer a whisky lynch over a bub one.

[Final Fires]

Its been said before but ender made a mess of his role, he wasnt scum he was new to this. Llmarble doent deserve this wagon.

Whisky you keep contradicting yourself, and in your last post you sounded very confident that ender is town. Like bob and cmar pointed out, you saying "made a mess of his role" assumes you know that he's town.

Nikanor you asked us to wait for you to weigh in before hammering. In the time that took, the llama wagon derailed. Potential stalling? If llama is scum we should keep an eye on him. For now though I've still got a null read on Nik.

Llama makes a good point on 409. The more he posts the less I'm sure of my read on him, because he seems to really believe what he's writing. Plus I'm grateful that he is at least active, which means in the future (if he is scum) it'll be easier to catch him in a lie. He's still on my scummy list, but I think whisky is a safer vote right now. I've mentioned all of the reasons that I think whisky is suspicious in past posts. If anyone wants me to I can go dig up my reasoning again, but for now I don't want to be repeating myself.

Unvote

Vote: Whisky

Like I've said before, I would prefer a whisky lynch over a bub one. He's barely posting right now in the hopes that the bandwagon will stay off of him.

The fishy "bandwagon" looks like bob is just upset fishy put suspicion on him. The case itself isn't solid, and fishy defended himself well.

I can't tell if nik's vote is serious or not.

I agree with the bobsnox "wagon", but whisky is higher up on my scumlist.

[Final Fires]

That's four votes llama and four votes whisky now. Would everyone on the llama wagon be willing to vote whisky, and vice-versa if worst came to worst?

I'm still not really against a llama lynch, I'm just slightly more unsure of it than a whisky one. I would swap if the people on the llama wagon feel very strongly that llama should be a priority over whisky, and are unwilling to switch their vote.

We should seriously start trying to get to L-1 or L-2 soon though. It would be nice if we could have it by the end of the day, so we're not scrambling to get this done the next two days, and they'll have time to claim if need be. Plus if they claim a PR we'll have time to switch our votes.

[Final Fires]

Bobsnox, were you not satisfied with Fishy's defense against your case? (Post 391)

[Final Fires]

Fine. I'll bite because I want a lynch.

vote Llama

that's L-2. Two more people vote this.

I might be wrong, but I think that's L-1. Would anyone be opposed if I go ahead and hammer? This deadline is getting too close and I'm afraid waiting much longer might result in another derailed bandwagon.

[Final Fires]

The last vote update shows that llama has four votes, but it only shows three names (he's gotten three votes since). I assumed that there had been a double voter, but it could just be a mistake. I'll hold off voting just for a little so that I don't accidently hammer.

And Darla, is the only reason you're voting for llama to get a lynch at this point? Or are there others? It would be nice to get your final opinion on record before llama flips.

[Final Fires]

FF
When you say "flip" do you assume that LL is scum, and that he will flip scum. Also, if you are so sure of yourself, why don't you hammer?
Please clarify

When I said "flip" I meant flip either way - town or scum.

I think that llama is scummy, but I'm not sure if he's scum. It didn't help his case that he got ender's slot, who had been towards the top of my scum list from the start. At this point I would prefer if morewhisky was lynched, but that's obviously not going to happen. See post 412 if you want a more detailed description of my most recent opinion on whisky/llama.

I'm waiting the town's approval before I hammer. If there's anything else that needs to be quickly discussed or finished I would like to give everyone the opportunity to do so before we move in to the night phase. With that being said...

Yikes, looks like I'm getting lynched again. Precisely how soon is the deadline?

I believe it's in a day or two, but I'm not sure if it's tonight, so I won't hold off hammering for too long (ninja'd - two days according to brokenscraps). If no one objects, I will hammer later tonight. Assuming that the 4 total votes against llama wasn't a typo. If it was, me voting tonight will allow someone the time to change their vote for a lynch tommorow.

[Final Fires]

It doesn't sound like any one is in opposition.

Vote: Llama

Not sure if this is the hammer or not. We might still need one more vote for a lynch.

[Final Fires]

Unvote: Llama
Vote: Whisky

Sorry to keep flipping my vote. I think I've made it clear that I would prefer a whisky lynch over a llama one, even though I would be happy with either. Especially when I look at who's voting for who, a lot of the people who I'm suspicious of are voting llama, where as most of the people I have town reads on are voting whisky. Overall I think the whisky vote is much safer, and now that I'm looking at the votes, more town driven lynch than the llama wagon.

This puts whisky at L-1, llama at L-2 I believe.

[Final Fires]

Also, I can't believe I missed this earlier:

Fine. I'll bite because I want a lynch.

vote Llama

that's L-2. Two more people vote this.

This is a lie. The whisky bandwagon that Darla was on was already at L-2 before she unvoted. Whatever darla's reasons for switching her vote, it wasn't because she wanted a lynch - whether she had voted for llama or whisky they both would've been at L-2. Darla definately had a different motive for switching her vote over to llama.

It surprises me that she would vote llama over whisky too. Especially because earlier in the game she was trying to protect ender, and attack whisky. But then when she gets the opportunity to decide which one is at L-2, she votes for llama/ender?

Whoops, ninja'd! Darla if you prefer a whisky lynch over a llama one, why did you switch your vote a while back to llama instead of keeping it at whisky?

(This might be a null point now, but I thought it was still worth sharing)

Whisky please claim

[Final Fires]

But the whisky bandwagon wasn't deteriorating. It was at L-2 when you switched your vote.

I can't read minds, but I can read actions. By switching your vote you put the whisky wagon at L-3, and the llama wagon at L-2. That was no closer to a lynch then your original vote (where whisky was at L-2 and llama L-3) - but you claimed you switched your vote because you "want[ed] to lynch". Switching your vote did nothing to accomplish that.

[Final Fires]

(And I did question you, by the way, post 471. However you didn't respond, so I assumed you were just brushing off the question.)

[Final Fires]

If only we had listened to my "post of doom", we would've had three of the scum nailed!

Unvote: Yosari

Actually, now that I think about it, killing him off might not be such a good idea. (I assume) if he remains inactive he'll eventually be modkilled - lynching him would be a waste of our execution. And even if he's not modkilled, he won't be using any of his powers. As it is, he'll just have no influence on the game, and he's not worth killing off.

In a game of this size, is it safe to assume that there are about 3 mafia, give or take? I think it's pretty suspicious that three people have voted for him, without a lot of reasoning, while everyone else has just voted randomly. This is my first mafia game on this board, so I'm not sure how communication works between the mafia here. I've looked into a few other games here and it seems like suspicion is always cast on those people who try to draw out the first day - although I admit I don't completely understand why.

People who voted for Yos:

Albert

, Whiskey,

Darla

, and Me
People who haven't posted yet: Brokenscraps,

Yosarian2

Now, I can promise you guys that I'm not scum, and I wouldn't bring up this point and cast suspicion on myself if I was. So if we eliminate my name from that list of yos. Both of those lists seem like they might be viable as the teams of mafia. Here's what I propose we do. Tonight we vote off one person who voted for yos - if they're innocent, let the other two go. If they're scum, pick off the other two. If tonight's execution is an innocent, then we move on to the next list of people. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Like I said earlier though, this is my first game of mafia here and I could've made a huge logical fallicy somewhere. But as of now, it seems like that's the best lead that we've got. If anyone else has a better idea, or the people who voted for Yos have a good explanation, I would be glad to change my vote.

Vote: Albert

Totally kidding . Good game guys, and sorry for my bad play. I thought the mafia that I had played on my other forum would help me out, but it ended up screwing me over. I really should've played a newbie game first.

[Final Fires]

Oh and thanks for hosting Emp!