Mafia 124 - Dilemma Mafia (Day 6)

[Bub Bidderskins]

But...but... I still wanna confirm! /confirm

Now then,

6. Bob Bidderskin

Obviously Bub Bidderskin's evil twin brother has disguised himself as Bub. Don't worry real Bub, we'll save you.

Vote: Bub Bidderskin

If you coming to save me, then why are you voting for me to kill me? This apparant contradiction can only be the spawn of scum.

Vote: Jahudo

This game's gonna be easy if the Mafia are stupid enough to have leaked their presence to the press!

[Bub Bidderskins]

vote: Final Fires

I get the feeling that he voted Yos and the he looked back on his vote and thought that it looked scummy, so he had to invent a BS reason to unvote.

But regardless of whether or not Final Fires is town, he did generate some interesting reactions...

um, it's RVS, SO SHUT UP

Allow me to paraphrase: "No! We spent so much time laying down our scum-plans and now you have to go and ruin everything during the RVS!!!"
Pom, why did you say that? You didn't give an opinion on Final Fires, you didn't tell how saying the things he did say was making him more scummy, not less, and you didn't ask him a question either, to try and get more info. It was totally pointless for game purposes, so why post?

Though I am getting scummy vibes off that entire post, I want a little more evidence before I throw in a vote and make a bandwagon. Though he's at the top of my list already.

Why hold back your vote? Only two people had voted for him and seven would be required for a lynch. Like pom's post, this comment is kind of pointless. "I think he's scummy, but I'll let everybody else do all the work. ho hum."

I'm not getting a scummy vibe off Final Fires right now. Trying to take the lead and be proactive comes across as a natural townie response, even if his suggestion of grouping people together and lynching based on that is really flimsy reasoning for lynching.

He said this after giving some pointers to Final Fires. Jahudo, if you think that Final Fires is not scum, then what do you think of Pom and Darla?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Vote: Jahudo.

Don't worry Fires. I believe you.

Do you have a reason for voting Jahudo?

Wouldn't a long, drawn out post accusing others of being scum look much more scummy than simply voting for yos? My motives weren't to look 'less scummy', but instead point out an observation I made, for what I thought was a better vote.

At this stage, a vote on Yos to get a bandwagon going isn't scummy at all, but a long drawn out post (like yours) is pointless this early becacuse there is so little info to go on.

Honestly, I simply meant to tell you to stop being so serious, and although it may have seemed hostile, it wasn't meant to be. I have a null-overeager-newb read on you ATM.

If you view Final Fires as town, then does that make the people who vote for him scummier, even if just by a little bit?

@ Bub Bidderskins
Why did you point out what DarlaBlueEyes had done, but give no attention to MoreWhisky who had done basically the same thing?

I should have asked him as well, but I missed him. Sorry, my bad.

Ender, wtf? Vote, unvote, vote. You shouldn't be scared to run somebody up if you think they're scum, but I get what you were saying with your unvote. I do not like your re-vote, however. That "happy now?" sounded like you just re-voted because somebody asked you to.

FOS: ender

[Bub Bidderskins]

Even though ender looks scummy, Darla looks like scum.

unvote; vote DarlaBlueEyes

That's two back-to-back mini-wagons that she said "oh, he looks scummy, but I'm going to reserve my vote" that kind of hesitancy with her vote indicates scum to me. A townie wouldn't be afraid to vote for somebody he or she thinks is scum. Essentially, she said she approved of the wagons, but didn't get on them.

[Bub Bidderskins]

And last but not least...

That bought out the scummy behaviour , my vote on Yos stands.

What is this supposed to mean?

[Bub Bidderskins]

11. Yosarian2

(2)

- MoreWhisky

Mod: You may want to fix that.

Darla once again shows that she is willing to point out scummy behavior but not willing to act on her observations. That non-commitant conservative play indicates scum to me.

@Darla: If you don't really think that ender is scummy, then who do you think is scummy at this point?

@ender: What was it about rekirtS' post that made you want to revote Final Fires?

[Bub Bidderskins]

11. Yosarian2

(2)

- MoreWhisky

Mod: You may want to fix that.

Darla once again shows that she is willing to point out scummy behavior but not willing to act on her observations. That non-commitant conservative play indicates scum to me.

@Darla: If you don't really think that ender is scummy, then who do you think is scummy at this point?

@ender: What was it about rekirtS' post that made you want to revote Final Fires?

So far I am not getting incredibly strong OMGSCUM vibes from anybody, but I have a good deal of suspicion building on Whiskey in these last few posts.

I am still not happy with Whiskey's explanation - he seems to be avoiding actually answering for what he said, and completely ignored my post.

@Whiskey please answer this post: #77

Until you do,

Vote Whiskey

- answers please.

So now all of sudden you don't have strong vibes on anybody. We went from this:

Though I am getting scummy vibes off that entire post, I want a little more evidence before I throw in a vote and make a bandwagon. Though [Final Fires] at the top of my list already.

To this:

With his explanation I think I was wrong in my initial impression and Fires really is just a n00b who made a bad move, but I really see no reason to lynch him over it. Keep him on my scumdar? Yes. Lynch right away, no.

To this:

Knowing what I do about Ender's META coupled with what he's done so far here, I'd say he's suffering from uber-n00b syndrome even still. That or he really just is not good at this game. Either way, I was a bit unsure whether or not to take his actions as noob or super scummy and then he re-voted seemingly only out of pressure. Now I lean more towards scum.

FoS Ender.

To not suspecting anybody. Except for Whiskey, who has perhaps the least suspision of all of those but got a vote. Maybe he got a vote because I called you out for not voting for people you suspect. Yes, it could just be a conservative play style, but townies have an incentive to play aggressive. They must act. The mafia are the ones who want to play conservative, so as to not look scummy early on.

As far as brokenscraps' point against Jahudo, meh. I think Jahudo was just voicing his opinion on DBE.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I voted for Jahudo because he's such a cool guy! DLG gets scumpoints for pointing out my lurking.

Unvote.

Striker's posting isn't making me feel too good.

Vote: rekirtS.

One of these Nikanor, one of these days, you are going to actually post some real content, and when that day comes I'm going to jump for joy, but in the meantime...

FoS: Nikanor

Please explain all of the following:

1) Why you are voting for rekirtS
2) What you think of the two biggest wagons (DLE and ender)
3) What you think of Final Fires' early game play

[Bub Bidderskins]

I really find whisky to be kind of strange. He has a... unique way of expressing himself that can be dificult to understand. Having said that, his vote on DBE looks really bad. Seriously, you vote for somebody because they say their on the phone? That's a seriously crappy reason to get on the biggest bandwagon.

Nikanor is a VI plain and simple. A scum could not possibly be stupid enough to do what he did.

I'll post some more tomorrow, as my computer's acting up right now. Does that make me scummy Whisky?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Final fires seems to be a lot more pro-town now. I really like his post #130, and agree with him about both ender being suspicious and about whiskey being suspicious.

I'm kind of confused about the darla wagon here; she hasn't really done anything yet that looks suspicious to me. Can someone who's on the wagon explain why you're voting for her again?

I started the wagon, and I found her scummy for be non-commitant. She sort of buzzed two mini-wagons without voting on them. I also agree with you that Final Fires is looking like town. His honesty in some of his posts is what really makes me say that he's town.

Darla and Final Fires are scumbuddies. Calling it.

Unvote

Vote: Darla

Vote explanation fail. Please remedy. Do you mind providing any evidence for your claim? Or are you just calling shotgun on a fat, juicy wagon?

If we lynch DBE and she flips town, bobsnox and whisky should be suspects number one and two.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I like how DLG is thinking

Are you incapable of forming your own opinions?

[Bub Bidderskins]

I like how DLG is thinking

Are you incapable of forming your own opinions?

Get over yourself.

Well it seems like you thought of a really crappy reason to shamelessly jump on the largest wagon, with basically none of your own scumhunting.

[Bub Bidderskins]

So far my biggest suspect is Bobsnox, who on review of most of his posts/iso as been a total sheep and hostile when his actions are questioned. This screams scum to me and one that can easilly slip under the radar with the Fires/Ender blunders and me, apparently. Looking back over it he gives me the most uneasy vibes of anyone, and if you look at his ISO you'll see why. I also have an uneasy read on Whiskey but he's actually scum hunting which is much more beneficial to town than what Bob has been doing.

No content - no original thought - hostility when questioned - expecting everyone to just accept his actions or shut up.

vote Bobsnox

I agree that bob looks really scummy if you assume that you are town. Since I do not hold that assumption, I do not feel that bobsnox is very scummy. However, if it so happens that you are town, then bob is extremely scummy. I've already said that. I feel bad repeating myself.

Darla, this is the 3rd time you've changed your vote since page 4. Comparing this to the start, where you played very cautiously, and were unwilling to even place a (serious) vote, you're play style really seems to be changing. You spent a lot of time ISO'ing Striker and Whiskey, and then out of nowhere you vote Bob? I understand that you said you were going to do more ISO's, but still, that seems really strange to me.

My thoughts exactly.

Both of which are pretty much exactly what DLG said. His posting style seems to take a much more aggressive tone once Darla pointed suspicion towards striker and whiskey (potential chainsaw defense? It wasn't that dramatic, but there definitely was a slight change in the attitude of his posts). He is someone we should keep an eye on, but right now I kind of think it's more just his meta than anything else.

I didn't notice that, *goes back to check out bobsnox*.

That leaves only one thing left to do, and I apologize in advance for this out of game outburst, but I just have to do it...

GO PACKERS!!!

[Bub Bidderskins]

Okay, I did a quick iso of bobsnox, and I found out that you would have to go at a snail's pase for an iso of him to be anything but quick. Of the 11 posts he made other than his confirm and random vote, only four contain enough content to fill up more than one line (content being defined generously here). One thing that struck me as really scummy was that he said this

Darla and ender still strike me as scummy.

And then just eight hours later says this:

Darla and Final Fires are scumbuddies. Calling it.

That's pathetic.

[Bub Bidderskins]

My vote will stay on DarlaBlueEyes. I think that she is the most probable scum, and I have already demonstrated why. However there is another reason to lynch her, and that is the fact that we will gain the most knowledge based on her lynch.

If she turns out to be town, then that seriously implicates both whisky (who has recently disappeared) and bobsnox. If we lynch bob and he's town, then that does not strongly implicate Darla.

Ender has slipped off the radar as of late, and he needs to get back into the game.

@Ender: At this point who do you think is more likely scum: Darla or bobsnox?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Unless i have to vote him i won't though, i'd prefer VOTE: Finalfires.

Why are you voting for Final Fires?

[Bub Bidderskins]

FF work on reading comprehension. <---- serious statement

Please lynch me =/= don't lynch me you'll be sorry

etc.

this is annoying

You are annoying.

And ender, I forgot to ask, why do you think bob is scummier than darla? I was too caught up in your failvote of FF. Which you need to explain as well.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I am not posting fluff. If I were in the business of fluffing up my posts, they'd be a lot longer than they are.

Just as an fyi, this is fluff.

I am not lurking I have had low access. I am pretty sure I mentioned it a page or so back, but I am in several games and sometimes forget which ones I have already said that in.

Posting from phone now, am trying to read back what I've missed

Justification for lurking, with nothing else. The only reason that this post was made was to "prove" that she wasn't lurking. You seemed pretty active during the early part of the day. I know that being scum and having a wagon on you is draining, but you should still try to post more.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Welcome to the game Llamarble. First question: What do you think of the DarlaBlueEyes wagon?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

He is tunneling/voteparked on DBE but doesn't like the other members of the wagon on her.
He has lined up Bobsnox or Whiskey lynches for D2 in the event of a Darlatownflip.
I'm not really impressed by his case on DBE.
Yosarian is also kind of scummy looking.

Then again Whisky is also pretty bad.
Why does everyone in this town have a lynch lined up for after Darla/Ender???

Okay, so you said you're not impressed with the case on Darla. But you also said:

Huh, maybe I was totally wrong on my first pass and Darla is actually scum. I don't see much attempt to figure out who the scum are coming from her; she seems to care more about convincing others not to vote her. On meta perusal I can see her being scum, but it's not very clear. How soon is the deadline? I need to read more.

So you don't like my case on Darla, but you think she's scum? Seriously, the whole purpose of this post was to deflect attention away from the Darla wagon. Before Llamarble replaced in, I had the suspision of a Darla/ender team. That's why I asked ender about the DBE wagon, to see his response. Unfortunatly I never got one from ender, but I got a contradiction from his replacement, which all but confirms my theory.

FoS: Llamarble

[Bub Bidderskins]

After some thought, I'm going to

unvote; vote: Llamarble

The Darla wagon seems to have fizzled out, and Llamarble's contradictions are perhaps even worse than ender's questionable play. As for more whisky, I don't know. I want to hear his response to some of the questions directed at him, though.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I find quicklynching me to be the move of scared scum.

Oh really? I find writing in all caps to be the move of scared scum. Case in point.

@DLG: WHY WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO ACCEPT THE LYNCH OF ANY OTHER PLAYER THAN ONE YOU CAUGHT LYING? YOUR PLAY IS CEASING TO MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE. AND WE HAVE A WEEK LEFT AND I HAVE PLENTY LEFT TO SAY, SO NOBODY HAMMER ME WITHOUT AT LEAST GIVING ME TIME TO TELL YOU WHO ALL THE SCUM ARE.

ALSO RESPOND TO MY CASE ON BIDDERSKINS; IT'S EASILY THE STRONGEST PRESENTED AGAINST ANYONE SO WHY ARE YOU IGNORING IT?

If you have to write in all caps in order for people to pay attention to your substance, then that must mean you don't have much substance. Oh, and we can see how your case on me is the strongest of anybody with all the people jumping on my bandwagon. [/sarcasm]

Do you know why it is weak? Because it is birthed from desperate scum and built on a contradiction. You say that you don't like my case on DBE, then you say that you find Darla to be scummy. Then you vote for me and call me the scummiest player around. You think that Darla is scummy and yet you think that the main pusher of the Darla wagon [me] is scum. Your default stance on Darla is that she is town, and yet when you look back at her posts, you realize that she's been posting scummy. So you panic because she's your partner and you chainsaw me.

Also...

We have more time and as I have only had a couple of days to get caught up I find quicklynching me to be the move of scared scum. Yosarian was talking about wagon growth speeds; this one on me has been TURBOSPEEDY as soon as I pointed out bidderskins as scum.

and yet in the same post...

I'm shouting that we should lynch Bidderskins because I am confident I have caught scum and I have about a week to convince a whole town whom I just met and don't particularly trust me yet.

Look who's wanting a speedlynch now. And keep in mind that your player slot has been scummy from very early on. I'm not sure if he ever got a real proper wagon on him, but there have been people voting for him for pretty much the entire day. The reason for the speedy wagon is that your play has been especially scummy lately.

Okay, not inside your quote anymore. I specifically disliked BubB's logic, which discussed DBE's hesitancy with her vote and moving around, both of which seemed perfectly reasonable behaviors from town. There is a HUGE difference between tunneling somebody all day until a near lynch with weak reasoning and simply expressing suspicion. My reasoning was based on a general lack of scumhunting, which is a more reliable tell since the primary difference between town and scum is that the town is actually looking for scum, but I ended up deciding she had given off enough sincerity/towntells and the wagon on her was scummy enough that Bub is a vastly better lynch.

Wait, what? So now you think DBE is town? But didn't you say this:

Huh, maybe I was totally wrong on my first pass and Darla is actually scum. I don't see much attempt to figure out who the scum are coming from her; she seems to care more about convincing others not to vote her.

What's with the rapid swings man?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Llamarble, claim now.

Oh, and by the way, nice job "destroying" my post.

I don't think DBE is scum. On my second readthrough I found her lack of content scummy-ambiguous, then read some more the next afternoon and decided she was still town and Bub was scum.

Liar, liar. You added me to your "scum pile" with your second content post of the game, right after you said Darla "looked town" and right before you said that Darla looked like scum. Also:

I've produced more content in 3 days than most players in this entire game. Why do you want to lynch me again?

Pro-tip: If you have to

say

that you've produced a lot of content, then that probably means you haven't produced a lot of content. Cornered scum at it's worst. And you should really stop using caps, it's not good internet manners you know...

[Bub Bidderskins]

Fishy wanted me to respond to Llamarble's case, so here I go...

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

(1)Complete lack of towntells. I see nothing in his posting that looks difficult to believe from scum.

(2)Tunneling / vote parking on Darla with a weak case.
(3)The case he makes against Darla is that she was initially hesitant with voting and then starts moving her vote around. I see no reason for scum to be unwilling to have their vote on people, especially so far from lynchtime. This is totally inadequate to lynch somebody on, even D1. Those Darlactions read to me as townie not sure of reads due to lack of information so far, changing reads as more information became available.

The numbers are mine.

1) The idea that somebody is scum simply because they have not displayed anything that looks town is silly. Just because I don't look town doesn't make me scum.
2) My vote was parked on who I thought was scum. Based on what I had seen, I thought that Darla was the most likely scum player there was.
3) I see a reason for them not willing to vote around. It's called caution. Scum are worried about how they look and generally are more cautious. Townies simply vote for who they think is scum and give their honest opinion. Scum, on the other hand, know whether or not the person they're voting for is town.

Now, as to me "lining up bob and whisky for lynches" all I have to say is that I gave my honest opinion that if Darla was town, then bob and whisky were likely scum just because of their bandwagoning. It isn't too different to what Bob said here:

I'd support a BB lynching after we lynch Llamarble (for my previously mentioned reasons).

Do you think that Bob is scummy because of this? Isn't he lining up lynches?

Also, some people asked me about my switch from no-opinion on ender/Llamarble to a scum opinion. Well, I thought that ender and Darla might be a scum team together. The reason for this was Darla's fence-sitting on ender and ender's non-committant attitude towards the Darla wagon. I didn't want ender to think that I had him and his scumpartner pegged until I had more evidence. That's why I was asking ender about the Darla wagon, to see if he could be scum-buds with Darla. Unfortunatly, I never got that answer because he replaced out.

I really want Darla come in and give her opinion, but right now I do suspect a Llamarble/Darla scumteam.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Sorry for not posting in a while. I'm getting caught up...

I'm gonna say that if one of DBE/More Whisky is scum, then the other one is town. Their play is very poor if they're scum together. I am of the opinion that Darla is scum with Llamarble, so I'm not going to support a Whisky lynch.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I'm really sorry I haven't posted much recently, but real life got in the way of my mafia.

Vote: Llamarble

Obvscum here. He was able to deflect his wagon unsuccessfully onto me, and successfully onto More Whisky.

Whisky's claim was pathetic. I can't believe he would do that.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I'm really sorry I haven't posted much recently, but real life got in the way of my mafia.

Vote: Llamarble

Obvscum here. He was able to deflect his wagon unsuccessfully onto me, and successfully onto More Whisky.

Whisky's claim was pathetic. I can't believe he would do that.

WHAT?? SUDDENLY I'M OBVSCUM? THIS IS GARBAGE. I didn't "try to deflect my wagon onto morewhisky." I SAID I THOUGHT HE WAS TOWN. THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF DEFLECTING MY WAGON ONTO SOMEBODY.

VOTE: BUB BIDDERSKINS
My reads are 2/2 so far. I'm starting to feel like Cassandra.

WHAT?? SUDDENLY YOU DECIDE TO ACTUALLY READ THE THREAD?

And seriously, what the hell are talking about saying you thought morewhisky was town. YOU VOTED FOR HIM!!! So you are essentially saying that you voted for somebody you thought was town.

I'm not in the slightest bit upset that DLG was willing to lynch Llama at deadline (not that he was - he voted MW). That is a total misrep. I'm upset that he was willing to lynch Llama when
1. Llama wasn't his top suspect
2. Llama was actively responding to the case on him
3. We had some days until deadline.

You are upset about how DLG voted for some who wasn't his top suspect, but what do you think of Llamarble voting for someone he had a "town read" on?

[Bub Bidderskins]

So fate, is it scummy to vote for llamarble or townie to?

Personally, I think Llamarble's scum. I can't believe he squirmed his way out of a lynch yesterday, let's make him pay today. He seems intent on BSing his way out of saying he supported the whisky lynch. He tried to play whisky to where whisky got lynched but he didn't recieve any suspision. Didn't work out that way, eh?

He keeps on backtracking, re-writing history, and being wishy-washy all to try and make him look better. That's scum.

[Bub Bidderskins]

What I want, which you still haven't given me, is an actual explanation for why you think Llama is town, for what post or posts of his convinced you.

ahh I read into his "guarantee" that he was softclaiming an investigative role, but now I remember how he originally though Llamarble was scum...

I will gladly get back on the Llamarble wagon if Fate does not produce something convincing

Why did you jump to begin with?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Fate, stop being an asshole. If you can't provide a good reason for your arguments in your own posts, then you don't have a good reason. Plain and simple. You have no real original reasons for why you think llamarble is town, and the non-original ones you have your not willing to show us.

Llamarble should be dead by now. He should have died day one, but the stupid townies on his wagon chickened out. Fate, I will only give credit to your "case" on Yos when you produce one.

Fishy was the main reason why the Llamarble wagon de-railed. When it was just him, he looked like flailing scum, but when his buddy came along, it gave the impression that there was more doubt about his alignment than there actually was. However you look at it, if Llamarble is scum, then Fishy is the natural choice for scum bud.

[Bub Bidderskins]

He should have died day one, but the stupid townies on his wagon chickened out.

Why are you assuming townies chickened out?

Because Llamarble was at L-1 and didn't get lynched, (i.e. the people on his wagon chickened out/got cold feet/backtracked/pick your expression).

And I don't know if Bub is playing the newbcard at this point or what, but saying Fate hasn't given any reasoning is utterly false. This "the wagon chickened out" stuff is utter garbage.

Fine, what are his reasons? From what I was reading, he just sort of commented on the game, and then arbitrarily said that you were town and yos was scum. If he did list reasons and I missed them, the repition won't hurt you.

Also, what do

you

call it when the town corners scum at L-1, forces a claim, and then lynches somebody totally un-related to the person they pressured?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Cmar had recently stated intent to hammer following a non-PR claim. My wagon was twice the size of anyone else's. I had no reason to expect I would survive after claiming VT. Also scumpower often helps scum 'prove' their fakeclaims.
@Bub:

Marble has been fighting for his life for goddamn last 15 pages of this thread for what I can see.

SO YEAH, when I come in and see how town he is and I fight on his side, unlike Fishy who is a passive player, he SUCKS UP TO ME.

BECAUSE I AM THE SAVIOR OF THIS TOWN.

This "he claimed VT at that point because if he had claimed PR it would've been countered" shit is just that.
1. A VT claim USUALLY results in a lynch, the fact that it didn't was a miracle of towniness from several people. THUS scum claim PR to either
-Live as a PR fakeclaim for ahwile
-Out a PR.
Also your excuse that "FF softclaimed, so marble didnt want to claim PR" is BS because WHETHER FF SOFTCLAIMED OR NOT, scum knows there are POWERROLES out ther ein this setup.


Go back. Re-read the WHOLE pages from when Marble was at L-2, to when he was at L-1, to when he claimed. His LINE OF THOUGHT was CLEARLY town. He wanted to get as much information and debate out there as possible, BEFORE claiming VT which he knew would likely result in his lynch.

THAT IS OBVTOWN.

Another thing: Devil's avocado on "Llmabrble wont die at night cuz hes scum" is stupid and just arguing for the sake of it.

Another thing: Vote Yosarian, not Llmarble. Llmarble doesn't die as long as I am alive. Is that clear? Mislynch him tomorrow if you fucks want, but not today.

Another thing: Marble's train of thought when Whisky was being run up, then softclaimed, then BULLSHIT CLAIMED, was clear as day.


Oh and here I am, I basically just listed all the reasons Marble is town.

SO THEREY OU GO YOSARIANSCUM, YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED. LETS SEE HOW YOU TWIST THESE POINTS

I think you've been much more worried about self-preservation then about anything else.

I don't think Whiskey is scum either, though I'm in the middle of a post on that.
Let's lynch BB.

I try hard not to get lynched as all roles and all alignments.
Not getting lynched is playing toward your wincon unless you're a jester.
Also VT happens to be my favorite normal role.

^This is not scum worried abotu self-preservation. He calls the counter wagon, that

we know was on town

, "not a good choice" and call Whisky TOWN, when he could've easily had a "scum" read on him to justify Whisky's wagon.

NEXT.

I call people lynching one person when they could have lynched another "thinking and deciding another player is more likely to be scum."
I believe Bobsnox's point is that you referred to the players who got off my wagon as "townies" which may have been an alignment-knowledge slip.

So to sum it all up, the only reason he thinks you're town is becacuse you claimed VT. And question, is Whisky more likely scum than you? No. We are now 100% sure that Whisky was not scum. It was chickening out. Fishy and you were able to sow enough doubt into the read, and so they got cold feet. That's what happened. Don't even attempt to say that it was anything else.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Arg! Misplaced modifier *head desk*. The third-to-last sentence should read:

Fishy and you were able to sow enough doubt into the read, and so the

town

got cold feet.

[Bub Bidderskins]

@Bub:
Those posts of Fate also pointed out that my line of thought while I was being wagoned D1 was townlike.

'
That's basically all Fate said. The only evidence he presented was to "read the whole section again". It didn't prove anything; he just arbitrarily said that your thought process was town. I also don't like it how you have to rely on other people's reads so much to defend yourself.

And that I defended the alternative lynch to myself, who turns out to have been town for certain.

Yeah, up until you voted for him and helped to get him lynched.

Your failure to read even the post you quoted takes your play to a level of lousiness you didn't suffer from D1.

I have thicker skin than you think.

Your statement about me being more likely to be scum than whisky after his townflip is also awful. When I and others voted whisky, it was out of a belief he was likelier scum than me (at least for town members of that wagon). DUH. Calling this "chickening out" makes NO SENSE.

Fine, you don't agree with my terminology. But you have to agree with what happend. You were at L-1

twice

. You were forced to claim, and some people on your wagon didn't have the guts to go through with your lynch. I call that chickening out. And it does make sense if it wasn't for:

Your failure to read even the post you quoted takes your play to a level of lousiness you didn't suffer from D1.

Okay, so you didn't quote my post, but you didn't read it either, so I think the comment is warrented.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I've responded to much of what Yosarian mentioned already, but since he collected his accusations I'll collect my answers to them.
But first I'll take a moment to explain why Bub's latest post continues his D2 pattern of not making any sense.

Bub said "Fate only finds llama town due to his VT claim."

I responded by quoting other reasoning Fate had given.

Now Bub is accusing me of hiding behind Fate and not defending myself because I gave examples from Fates posting to prove that Bub had not been reading at all carefully and missed a number of other things Fate pointed out.

I have defended myself plenty in other posts which didn't have as their specific purpose proving Bub did not read Fate.

I've already said that I defended Whisky as his wagon was forming because I thought he was town and didn't want to lynch him, then voted him as deadline approached when he became the only alternative to lynching me. If another player who isn't confirmed town is the only alternative lynch to you, you vote them, period.

Accusing me of not reading is ridiculous.

Now onto Yosarian.

Straw man is in red

Attempt to make Fate's reasons not look like utter crap is in purple

Baseless excuse for pushing mislynch is in blue

An assertation that is just as ridiculous as saying I didn't read the read the thread is in green

Actual responses to my arguments are in orange

I have to say, Llamarble, the colors don't really align when it comes to you.

But all theater aside, Llamarble has not given serious considerations to any of my counter-arguments to Fate's "case". He didn't even touch on the fact that I said Fate provided no evidence to go with his case. He simply said that it was true. Again, no counter-argument to the fact that Fate did not present any actual evidence other than his arbitrary read.

He is still rooted in the inconsistent belief that I simply didn't read Fate's case. He is living in fairy-land where everything that he wants to happen is true if simply believes it to be. Well, let me say one thing right now: I read Fate's case and I thought it was utter crap. No actual evidence to back up his claims despite what you pray is the contrary.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Well, I take off one day look what you guys have done. I'll start getting back up to speed.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Having re-read the sequence after bobsnox pointed out the potential scumslip by Bub Bidderskins, I find some more concern with the fact that Bub Bidderskins tried to keep the focus of that situation on the "chickened out" part rather than addressing the real point. I also note that both bobsnox and Llamarble allow the debate to go that way instead of focusing in on the potential problem.

@ Bub Bidderskins
Do you have any comment specific to your usage of pointing out that it was "townies" who left the Llamarble wagon?

It wasn't a slip, it was the truth. It wasn't the scum's fault that Llamarble wasn't lynched (although they may have helped). The townies simply chickened out. Llamarble is currently in a state of denial about the chickening out thing, and is refusing to come to grips with reality. That's why I kept on the chickening out thing, because for some reason Llamarble couldn't get that fact into his thick head.

I do not like Fate's fake claim one bit. As a matter of fact:

unvote, vote: Fate

Fate, what were you trying to acomplish with this gambit, assuming you are town?

As for the Darla deal, I found Llamarble's actions at the time to be scummier than Darla's. Nothing new was coming from the Darla wagon, and I thought we had a better chance of hitting scum if we lynched Llamarble. Darla has slipped off the radar as of late, and I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt until she gets caught up.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Fate, you did a great job of not answering my question. Let me repeat:

What were you trying to acomplish with that gambit?

Also, I loled at bobnox' reasons for voting for me.[/sarcasm]

[Bub Bidderskins]

I've already answered that question and it would be apparent to anyone actually KEEPING UP with this thread.

Now its up to you to decide if it makes sense coming from town or scum, though it looks like you care more about mislynching thann finding scum

It won't kill you to repeat it, then. What were you trying to acomplish?

Bub, what's your Fate scumtell?

I'll tell you once Fate answers my question.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I WAS TRYING TO GET PEOPLE OFF MARBLE BECAUSE I THINK HE'S TOWN.

THERE YOU GO YOU FUCKIN SCUMBAG, NOW DIE

You were that sure that Llamarble was town? Sure enough to try a fake cop soft-claim?

[Bub Bidderskins]

What I don't get about Fate's play is that I can't see a townie being so desperate to stop a claimed vanilla townie from being lynched on D-2. Okay, if it was LYLO or really late into the game, I would understand it. But on day 2? Really?

On the other hand, I could see a scum doing that to protect his partner. Admittantly it seems really risky from a scum perspective, but it makes more sense than the town version.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I definitely want an answer from Bub Bidderskins regarding his characterization of the deterioration of the Llamarble wagon. The question in particular is

Who are you referring to as having lost their nerve?

I don't remember ever saying anybody in particular lost their nerve. I said that that the townies on the Llamarble wagon at the end of D-1 chickened out, but I was saying that in the general sense. Llama was at L-1 twice and somebody could have hammered. Instead, people lost their nerve and jumped onto Whisky.

[Bub Bidderskins]

unvote;
Vote: brokenscraps

Why are you voting for broken?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Jahudo is town. His reasoning has been townish and his aim's have been to find scum.

@DLG: What don't you like about my push against marble?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Fine, lynch me. I'm just a vanilla townie, but let me say this in parting: the case on me is extremely thin and totally scum driven. I want to be able to talk to Llamarble's ghost on night 3. Do NOT let me down.

I challenge you to look at the case on me. Ask yourself this: is it really driven by town? Do you want to know who started the case? Llamarble and fishy. They just pulled my name out of their hat and targetted me to try and distract the town from lynching marble.

I repeat: you had better kill marble the next night, or I will haunt you 'till the end of time. I've had my say, now it's in your hands.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I never like last posts like that. It's not really a tell either way of whether you are town or scum, but if you do flip town I feel there is a lot of pressure to push a wagon just because you said to do so :/

Exactly what I was going for. When I flip town, you had better kill Llamarble.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I feel good about being right about DBE from day one, but bad about being totally wrong about yos and llamarble. Unfortunatly, this game was hurt by the pervasive number of replacements, but over all it was quite fun.