Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[popsofctown]

What I recommend we do is remove your ability from the game, implosion.

We can suggest that someone in the town is a 'good target' and hope a vig or somesuch kills him. You cycle the town-destroying ability to that same antitown 'good target'. Unless an antitown faction has control of a protection ability for tonight, that guy has a pretty good chance of dying the same night you kill him, so your bad-for-town ability goes away night 1 instead of bouncing from player to player and causing us harm.

I see a fullclaim of your ability as an antitown thing, scum know more about the setup and will be able to manipulate the ability's mechanics more easily than we can .

[popsofctown]

I was thinking something similar to what pops said. Essentially, today we nominate someone scummy (separate from the lynch). Tonight, everyone with an ability that will hurt the town in the long run gives it to our nominee. The next night, assuming there's at least one vig ability in the game, whoever has that vig ability shoots the nominee. It has to happen the next night after everything is passed because of the action resolution order. Downsides: there are several ways it could get screwed up (target getting passed a bulletproof ability, mafia getting passed a doctor ability, some kind of bus driver moving everything to someone else).

Another thing I was thinking is that we might be able to just massclaim on day two. Mafia won't be able to kill anyone with a useful power role, and it'll give us some insight into what's in play. Oh, and any investigative roles can claim results without risk of their abilities being lost. I think it would also help the town more than the mafia because the mafia can share what roles they've gotten between each other, so they'll already have info about what's in play.

Also, a fullclaim from me is probably inevitable. But we'll see.

No, cyclings resolve after nightkills. Our nominee would have to have started the game with any bullet proof abilities. Protown thing to do in that circumstance might be to say so, for the nominee, probs.


Oh, right, it is dangerous to give anti town roles to the person we find scummiest. Maybe we do this for the person we find towniest? And there's always roleblocks.
Please do not reveal your role unless it's best for the town. Please don't get into the "omg funyay normal game IMJESTER ojk but I dont have a trackin ability I pinkyswear MAWFIA IS FUN" mode that I see people do in large games.

>Best Mafia Performance

Bomb him now!

Joking aside, I'm confused with the plan of nominating someone scummy and passing all anti-town abilities to him. The scum will see our discussion, and know who we are passing it to. If they have the ability to do so, they can disrupt our plan of killing the player. Furthermore, if we're passing it to whoever seems the most scummy, and they are actually scum, and manage to survive, then we've given them a bunch of anti-town abilities that they'll be able to use. We could end up severely screwing ourselves over. Why would we want to do something like that?

Vote: Parama

RVS vote.

The mafia's nightkill doesn't give them any ability to screw with this.
Only things they can have are a cyclable busdrive or a cyclable doc protect. And it depends on how that cyclable busdrive works, if the cyclable busdrive busdrives ALL the things that come at that players slot, then the kill would be redirected and the bad powers would be redirected, so some poor soul will drag those powers to the grave with him.
If you want to imagine horrible power roles ruining this plan, imagine good ones too. Tracker figures out who docs or busdrives the target, eh? (he'd have to sort it out from the vig, but it shouldn't be so hard.)

Also, if the mafia screw with this process, we just do it again. Mafia are forced to cycle their abilities away, making it very unlikely that they have a doc or busdrive ability both N1 AND N2.

To quote

The Score

, "This is a very big pay-off for very acceptable risks".

[popsofctown]

Figuring out how to create advantage within the setup is part of theme games, even normal games somewhat. Where's the spirit? You keep mentioning vague "bad things will happen, for sure, i just don't know what they are or why they will happen", and that's your only argument.

I'm assuming these abilities are forced-use. If not that's why we're not on the same page, but that's the impression I got from Implosion. If it's a forced use ability, it matters very little whether it passes to a scum or a townie. It's still going to screw things over, but its targetting when used by a townie will slightly soften the blow. The possibility of permanently removing a negative force-use ability from the game permanently greatly outweighs the chance it's directed a little more darkly for one night. And that's just if the guy somehow dodges a N1 nightkill and a N2 roleblock. And is scum, none of us are perfect scumhunters.

I only briefly considered the possibility of doing this to a townie, it definitely should be passed to an antitown player, who should subsequently be removed from the game along with those bad abilities.
Aren't you folks trying to win?

And come on now WrathChild, it looks like you're skimming the thread right off the bat.

I

originally had the idea of nominating scummy players and vigging them, Implosion just repeated it to flesh it out.
The concept of vigging a protown player was a direct response to your suggestion that giving the antitown roles to the most antitown player is like giving the Joker a tank. (it isn't though.) It wasn't a response to Implosion, I skipped quoting you.

[popsofctown]

RVS = random voting stage. An RVS vote is a vote during the RVS, generally for very weak reasons.

Anyway... part of the reason I like this plan is because my ability won't help mafia

at all

if it's eliminated in this way.

In fact, I'm claiming because there's no reason not to, and it's likely inevitably going to happen at some point today.

I have a treestump ability. For today, I'm voteless and can't be lynched. I'm worried that if this survives to lylo, it could screw everything up if a townie has it. Or if a mafia member has it for that matter. However, mafia having it for one day wouldn't really affect anything.

The more I think about it though, the less merit I think the plan has. Just because we don't know what roles are in play, so there are a lot of possibilities for error, and there are likely some negative roles that mafia could use if eliminated like this. Plus, I'd guess that most abilities in play are positive for the town. Those with such abilities obviously shouldn't claim them until tomorrow - but there are probably things like investigating/protection/vigging that are in play. I think the best thing to do might be to just pay attention to who has abilities like this, and make sure that at some point the abilities get eliminated. It might be a bit trickier with mine since it can't be gotten rid of through lynching.

Discuss.

Traditionally town has more PRs.

[popsofctown]

What I recommend we do is remove your ability from the game, implosion.

We can suggest that someone in the town is a 'good target' and hope a vig or somesuch kills him.

You cycle the town-destroying ability to that same antitown 'good target'. Unless an antitown faction has control of a protection ability for tonight, that guy has a pretty good chance of dying the same night you kill him, so your bad-for-town ability goes away night 1 instead of bouncing from player to player and causing us harm.

I see a fullclaim of your ability as an antitown thing, scum know more about the setup and will be able to manipulate the ability's mechanics more easily than we can .

Highlighted section is where you suggest vigging a townie that I referred to.

that's vigging a player, not vigging a townie

[popsofctown]

anyway, there's the antitown role isn't nearly as bad as i thought it was.

The cycling mechanic alleviates most of the pain in an endgame situation. You cycle treestump to the guy you dont feel like lynching. He'll be unlynchable. Oh, unlynchable doesn't matter because you refuse to vote for him and it's hard to get votes in endgames. You guys go lynch scum if it's anything but LyLo.

[popsofctown]

Vote: implosion

. No harm in confirming this.

[popsofctown]

Is that the way unlynchable mechanics are normally handled? It sounds rather convenient.


Im aware that it ruins LyLo implosion, but this is a large game, and the ability has little drawback UNTIL LyLo. Im not sure if the ability is bad enough to try to remove it from the game, there are some risks involved.


@muh: Look on the back of the potato, it says "come play mafia with me". Make some real posts.

[popsofctown]

ok.

Real posts, when i use the term at least, are posts that move you towards your wincon substantially, and make you a readable player. Scum want to be unreadable, and are more likely to post one liners like you are doing.

What are the risks of trying to kill implosion's ability? Is the worst case scenario really a mafia doc saving the guy? A vigilante would miss getting a kill that night, but he wasn't guaranteed to shoot correctly anyhow. While this treestump ability makes us autolose LyLo, so it is the equivalent of an entire player, guaranteed.

I'm thinking maybe we ought to remove implosion's ability from the game. If you're town, please argue for or against that without appeals to fear, mkay?

[popsofctown]

Magna, the stump ability, specifically, is not very bad early. It makes the controller voteless. It's harmless UNTIL endgame.
and im not reading a mini

[popsofctown]

not an entire one, give highlights. Sorry, thought i might have to shorten that because of POS but i dont.

[popsofctown]

not seeing it at all really. Chance of a living vig goes down along with the chance of a mafia doc. But I think the chance of a living vig is going to fall more rapidly.

Wait... are you using them to confirm players with that third night thing? I guess I get it, but letting that stump thing stick around seems like playing with fire. Can you start trying to remove it after just one cycle of confirmation?

[popsofctown]

giving the antitown roles to the most antitown player is like giving the Joker a tank. (it isn't though.)

Yes it is.

You give the scummiest player roles that can hurt the town, and he's GOING TO USE THEM TO HURT THE TOWN. Very simple. Yes, it means we can get rid of all of them in one fell swoop, but that's assuming that NONE of the scum got a roleblock, a doctor, a redirector, or anything of that ilk, which I find unlikely.

I do think that getting rid of anti-town roles, including the treestump, is a good idea (obviously); however, I definitely feel it's too risky to attach all the anti-town roles to one player who we find scummy. It might work if we give it to a person who we can agree is NOT mafia, because they wouldn't use it on the town. Of course, that opens up a whole other host of issues. However, I think we should deal with those anti-town roles later; we need to start off with just plain old scumhunting. I can't think of a reason to do anything differently than we would in a normal mafia game, barring some pretty interesting role stuff.

PREVIEW EDIT: I like Magna's idea, with the cycle of confirmation. It seems intelligent, certainly.

well let's skip the argument and just limit it to the treestump. I have a hard time thinking of antitown abilities that are cyclable. Governor maybe. That's the same as stump, safe early on, dangerous late game.

[popsofctown]

Parama, can you please remove the red text from your signature? I know it's not the mod colors for this game, but that's what my brain is thinking everytime i scroll past it.

[popsofctown]

I was hoping I would get a legit explanation from Parama, actually.

Here it is:
The mod saw >9000 people asking me about the virus.
So he rewrote the role's properties and sent this new description to me. I didn't even ask for it but whatever I see no reason to vote muh seeing as he currently has the bomb (I think?)

The virus can be passed between factions, sorry. The mod actually had to clarify that for me.

I definitely have my eye on you now. You declined an opportunity to explain the first time, possibly hoping it blows over, at the worst.

And if the mod rewrote the role's properties and resent them to you, it seems unlikely that you would say the "mod had to clarify it for me". "the mod actually had to clarify" seems like the way I would naturally phrase that, since the rewritten role would be the new role for EVERYONE, not just you, and the rewrite would affect you the least if you were town.

[popsofctown]

Rereading the game, I only see people asking "oh is it like an RL hot potato oooooh" and "Does it kill the person?" By then you've already passed it. More complex questions about the ability, ones that could even remotely seem related to intrafactional passes and spark the mod's memory that he forgot to clarify that point, don't come until page 2, when you've already passed it to Muh.

The mod didn't post a votecount until after you'd already passed the ability. It is possible though that he checked the thread somewhere near the bottom of page 1 and sent some pms though. I doubt it though. Muh would have been the one to receive a revised version of the role if it was a response to in-thread activity. He might have sent you the new version of the role pm just as a reference, but that's not exactly what you said, and, again, that possibility to makes the clause "for me" unlikely to appear in your post.

unvote, vote Parama

.
I certainly don't have a better place for my vote.

Muh, did you

[popsofctown]

EBWOP: The simplistic paraphrased questions WERE asked before he passed it. Complexer ones after.

[popsofctown]

I have a treestump ability. For today, I'm voteless and can't be lynched. I'm worried that if this survives to lylo, it could screw everything up if a townie has it. Or if a mafia member has it for that matter. However, mafia having it for one day wouldn't really affect anything.

While I believe you most likely have this ability, I don't think this speaks to your alignment whatsoever.

I don't understand why you automatically believe that this can't help the town though? Why can't you just pass it to the player you find most townie? This is very odd, implosion. I figured your ability was more along the lines of a suicide-bomber like thing, where, statistically, you'd probably end up killing yourself and another townie if you used it.

It's not a great ability, but I don't think it's uniformly anti-town. I can understand your point of view though, I think we just have an honest political disagreement over the power.

The existence of this ability is the equivalent of a dead townie in LyLo. Either this game goes to LyLo or we win without LyLo, so this ability is worth +1 living breathing townies.

In a 3 man lylo, if you give it to scum, scum is unlynchable. Give it to town, town can't vote for the scum player to win the game.

5 man lylo, you

can

win, but only if
1)a townie controlled the ability the night before
2)that townie gives it to a scum player.
3)all three townies unanimously vote for the other scum player.

4 dudes left, you pass it to an SK, the guy frickin wins against 3 townies and can claim SK in the thread. Yes. The dadgum thing is antitown. Voting and lynching are the ways townies win the game, naturally the thing sucks for us. And it actually sucks for us the entire game, the effect just isn't as dramatic. We either have a town player who cannot vote for scum, and would be using his vote more honestly than the scum who will take adantage of his silence, or we have an unlynchable scum who could totally blow his cover but still use cyclable abilities or be the guy to commit the nightkill that night.

I know the virtues of hiding info, but it's important to think about what that info can be used for. The info to reveal here to remove the treestump ability are:
1. Who the vigs, if any, will target that night.
2. Who is going to receive the treestump ability that night.

For 1, the only thing to fear is mafia doc and mafia busdriver. We're going to select a scummy player for this, so it's either a scummy townie, or a scummy scum. If it's a scummy scum, we eventually lynch the guy and we might get tracker info about why he survived. If he's scummy townie, well, we had a vig shooting someone who to the best of the town's ability seemed to be scum, and the mafia actually used their ability to stop a townie from dying. That oughtta help us somehow.
Busdrivers screw with things, but again there's tracking.

Both those cycle away from the faction that night so we can try again. Even if it doesn't work on first try, we can probably recoup our losses the next night.

I still think we should remove the treestump ability. And I think we should do it immediately, since the detrimental effect the treestump ability has is proportional to how long the game has been going on.
---

Figuring out how to create advantage within the setup is part of theme games, even normal games somewhat. Where's the spirit? You keep mentioning vague "bad things will happen, for sure, i just don't know what they are or why they will happen", and that's your only argument.

There's a fine line between successful planning and showing your hand.

I'm thinking maybe we ought to remove implosion's ability from the game. If you're town, please argue for or against that without appeals to fear, mkay?

I have no strong opinion either way. I don't think it's uniformly anti-town. It can be used beneficially. implosion and you are thinking too far ahead, imo. The cyclical mechanic and likely multiple kills will eventually catch up with most of the abilities, most likely. This just isn't a priority thing to worry about. As in most good mafia games, the only thing I'm concerned with right now is catching scum, not overanalyzing our powers.

---

How the cycling abilities will be handled -

D2 all players who survived and passed on abilities N1 should claim that they passed an ability, only revealing what that ability was if it gave them a Pro-Town result (like a guilty on someone). They are not to claim who they passed it to.

D3 all players still alive who passed abilities N1 claim who they passed them to. Then said players confirm / deny that they received an ability Day 2 that they passed on N2. They also reveal any useful results.

Lather rinse repeat each Day cycle. And continue to lynch scum.

I can support this, if only because it will kind of stop us from going on too much about the whole "what to do" aspect and focus our efforts on the actual game. It's efficient.

[popsofctown]

pops, what would I have to gain by saying "The mod clarified it without me asking him to" instead of "The mod clarified it with me asking him to"? I don't even see why this is a big deal.

Because your many times as likely to ask if you're part of a faction?

[popsofctown]

I feel strawmanned. I'm arguing that the manner in which Parama received clarification and how he described it sounds suspect. Of course I wouldn't suggest that theme games infrequently require clarification.

[popsofctown]

Not sure if this has been asked yet or if I just missed something, but:

Mod: if a person is passed an ability on the night that they die, what happens to the ability?

Based on the action resolution order, the ability would be passed to a dead person.

@Anyone who said I'm not confirmed town for having an ability, I never said I was. If everyone with an ability was confirmed town, this would be too easy.

@RedCoyote, can you give a situation in which my ability isn't anti-town? Even having someone voteless and unlynchable in general is bad. It narrows down the town's options and creates a player that won't be able to contribute as effectively.

Also, since I never actually voiced approval, MoI's plan sounds good.

Currently I'm not liking Muh, a couple of posts and no content; I'm also not liking quadz based on his "scumslip" vote on paramas nulltell.

I'm not too keen on the idea of a massclaim early on, however removing anti-town abilities early on could prove beneficial then the scum would be left guessing as to what is in game and where...

Also the spud has a "time limit" of X amount of posts for those who missed it... I would guess that the trigger is around 150~250 posts.

Oh and something about this post just didn't sit well with me...

Agreed. It looks like a lot of parroting of everything that's already been said, and it also looks kind of forced (i.e. he had to give opinions, but these opinions don't look real).

FoS AntB

I think he's implying more along the lines of a town-controlled "you pass it to Y or face the consequences".

And by angeling it that way, X gets a chance of saying why he didn't passed it to Y in his defense-speech

If the passer tries to give excuses, we simply lynch them. If they say they tried to pass the ability but it failed, we ask everyone if they've seen an ability that could affect the transfer. If they just give some other random excuse, we lynch them on the spot.

Oh, and either a scum died or a very questionable townie who considered "someone just gave me the bomb" a real post died, so the result of the bomb is pretty good.

The ability goes to Disneyland. It's possible there are ways to get it to come back from Disneyland and it is possible that there are no ways, Disneyland is so much fun you know.

That's a mod paraphrase. I doubt it's very easy to get back, and I want this Treestump ability out of the town.

I don't see how Parama is a lock for town if muh is scum. The thinking might have been, you know, "if this guy doesn't have the composure to pass a post potato, is he really gonna make it to endgame?"
It's WIFOM for whether doing this makes him look town, but I think it's definitely in those middling ranges where you don't make decisions based on the guts and moxie it would take to play the WIFOM. (day 1 wagonning a partner from the dust and orchestrating his lynch on your own, for example).

But of course, it's more of a towntell than a scumtell.


@themanhimself: I'm not paranoid, I'm indignant. If I see a fallacious argument tactic, I'm not gonna let it slide. Do you disagree that I was strawmanned? If you compare my post to his "refutation" I don't think you can.

I might be unfamiliar with the connotations of "strawman" but I'm just using the denotation; my argument was way oversimplified by his response. Not playing the victim here.

[popsofctown]

It's antitown the entire game. Putting off the task of removing it will just make it more difficult :/

[popsofctown]

unvote: Parama

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote: TheLonging

Diddin is admittedly scummy, but TheLonging did the same action of saying "X is town for no reason". In 50% of his posts.

And also, I'd like Diddin to live so he can use those daykills. But Diddin. The daykills give us NO info about your alignment. If you don't use them in a democratic town-guided way, I'll see to it you hang from a rope. Daykill initiative is somewhat tolerable in games where it's more likely the role is on a townie, less in this game.

@MOD

: Have any abilities been modified from their original versions?

Also whoever claimed tree stump: why?

- Just off the top of my brain, I'd think that you'd know more about the more, erm, ostentacious roles in the game just judging by the length of time you've spent on this site. As TS, you

have

to claim lest it doesn't work or fades away. Unless Eruci modified it, that's the original condition of the ability.

I'm thinking maybe we ought to remove implosion's ability from the game. If you're town, please argue for or against that without appeals to fear, mkay?

- If we can find one or two confirmed townies later into the game, we can have them pass it back and forth. Then again, we'd need more than two in case of mafia NK... I digress. See also: role conditions. If the player doesn't say "I'm the Tree Stump" in thread, whether they have it or not, the ability doesn't go into use. I don't think we should get rid of it. At all.

If you have to claim the Tree Stump ability for it to work, you're right, and that's what we'll do.

If the mod has modified the role, it needs to go. The two townies passing it back and forth will lose their votes in lylo, and making a confirmed townie unlynchable confers no benefit, it's a confirmed townie.

@RC: I'm mad @ u. Your playstyle seems more and more unreadable everytime I play with you.



@diddin: What do you mean by "my kills do not completely remove the virus?" Is it like, you got 100 milliliters of virus juice from muh's body, and you spray some of it for each kill, but you don't know how much each kill consumes? Kinda like that?

[popsofctown]

With Diddin's daykills I think we have a large number of "lynches" available and a two week deadline will be rough. I'm going back through the thread to scum hunt more, since i totally got all hung up on that parama thing.

[popsofctown]

With muh flipping town

VOTE: Parama

I'm going to believe muh on that one

Ummmmm... why? What does his alignment have to do with how accurate his (highly-OMGUSy) read was?

And, diddin, I completely do NOT understand your insistence that WrathChild is scummy. TBH, I find it ridiculous. He unvoted from a RV, big whoop. Why are you making such a big deal out of unvoting without a revote, anyway?

Yes, but the thing is he has called other people scummy, yet isn't voting. It looks like he's waiting to hop on a wagon. AKA he's not putting his vote where his mouth is.

I have as long as I want to activate my daykill. I have an unknown quantity of the kills available, as my power does not completely remove the virus.

This is actually a decent tell, and reminds me of my own tendencies when i play the scum role.

Now there is talk of Day-Vigging me. That's a bit hastey. I guess I'll address the Scumday thing.

I saw that Diddin (I think that was who, I'll double check) had put up a lame pointless vote on me (for Unvoting a RVS Vote) and figured he was baiting me into OMGUS voting him to drive his case further.

I wasn't going to let him have that satisfaction, so I just refrained from voting him at the moment. I think it was Diddin trying to fish around for someone's overreaction. Normally I'd take that as a Null-Tell, but when trying to get "The New Guy" with this seems to tip the scales a bit on the scummy side.

Now that I've explained the Scumday comment, I also find Parama's attack on me rather scummy and baseless for the most part. Take a minute and look at his attack, "Oh Well Muh was town... Let's get the real scum! VOTE: Wrath" followed by the scumday case, which basically states, "Come on guys! Don't you see it? Scum like to do things like that!"

It's all bologna. I'm not sure who is scummier, Diddin for rookie OMGUS fishing or Parama's meta-case against a player who's never been in this meta. I have seen Diddin move along, but am curious for Parama's response to this post.

bolding mine, again. This seems a little bit paranoid, makes me find Wrathchild scummy, much more so than his failure to vote. He seems to see scumhunting as more of an attack and scumhunting that targets him as plots from an opposing force rather than the mistakes of a misguided townie. (of course, he could be right, it could be a cross factional dispute, but the only way wrathchild would no that is if he were scum and diddin were town, not the reverse).

FoS Wrathchild

, and I'm feeling ok with that as a daykill.

[popsofctown]

A lot of people have postulated that diddin might be scum, I'm not really one way or the other about it to be honest. However, if we have even the slightest notion that diddin might be scum we should probably wait for the daykill to pass to someone else tomorrow because if diddin is mafia then he's going to find ways to avoid killing his scumbuddies so our chance of getting anything useful out of this power is slim.

No, really, you just get a strong town consensus and say "dayvig this guy or you hang from a rope".
He'll dayvig a townie and then hang from a rope, we either bag a scum or get free lynches.

[popsofctown]

Parama is just as likely as anyone else to be town. I'm not sure if diddin is scum but I really don't trust him with the dayvig ability right now, I say we see who gets it tomorrow and go off of that. In fact, why don't we vote on who it should go to tomorrow and then if it doesn't go to that person then we have a good scumlink, if it does go to that person then we have it in the hands of someone that most people don't believe is scum. I think Saint is being a little bit over the top but I'll keep that on the back burner for now. I can't tell if wrathchild is just scummy or new but either way he's not being super-helpful. I say we VOTE: Implosion and see what happens. If he's telling the truth then it's null, if he's lying then we either lynched a lying townie or some scum so I don't see a losing scenario there.

diddin is willing to delegate his kill. I doubt he's gonna go rogue with it, it doesn't work for pretty much any possible wincon.

Identifying who he is going to pass his daykill ability is HORRIBLE because scum can shoot that person and remove the vig ability from the game permanently. .

Vote: implosion

. No harm in confirming this.

By confirming this, you would essentially be forcing a no lynch... if he isn't lying, and is merely voteless. Furthermore, you KNOW the town isn't going to get behind this. This is just distancing/trying to gain a no lynch in my opinion and I'm reading it as severely anti-town.

I've never heard of the tree stump ability before. I didn't know it was an established role. I just assumed that for that player, no amount of votes could trigger a mod scene or end of day. I didn't think it would no lynch.

I'm thinking maybe we ought to remove implosion's ability from the game. If you're town, please argue for or against that without appeals to fear, mkay?

The bolded here really reads wrong to me[/quote]
I was frustrated, and was beginning to suspect that some of the people baselessly rejecting my idea were scum. *shrug*

Magna, the stump ability, specifically, is not very bad early. It makes the controller voteless. It's harmless UNTIL endgame.
and im not reading a mini

Even I skimmed it. Is it that hard to read?
I'll give proof I did: Jack commonly was like "I know 3 town and 3 scum... more on that later" then
"I know 6 town and 3 scum... more on that later"... I'll admit I didn't finish a read, but I wanted to get a gist of how everything would go. It's only ~30 pages IIRC. Your refusal to do that is anti-town.

Yeah it is antitown. I don't think I owe the game that much effort though. He didn't identify highlights, a skim won't work. If I read 20% of the thread, I get 20% of what he is trying to convey. There's a certain amount of effort I put into all my games and I don't go past that. I also refuse to reread games when people ask me to.

Also your #15 in iso is IIoA, with a weak vote on a null-situation that lacks reasoning

I didn't really finish my thought there, sorry. I thought he was lying, Lynch all Liars.

Your #17 in iso feels like it is pushing parama's post back to bury it in the thread

Hrm. When I look up my 17 in iso it looks like phail nested quotes and ultimately saying nothing. The words underneath the quote pyramid aren't mine, they are someone else's, they got there by mistake. Somehow I lost content from that post, it was probably the one where I wanted to talk to RC point by point.

pops, what would I have to gain by saying "The mod clarified it without me asking him to" instead of "The mod clarified it with me asking him to"? I don't even see why this is a big deal.

Because your many times as likely to ask if you're part of a faction?

Moot. Disagreement isn't a scumtell.

It's antitown the entire game. Putting off the task of removing it will just make it more difficult :/

treestumping DOES NOT REMOVE SCUMHUNTING OK?

No, it just makes it less useful when the guy you want to kill is unlynchable.

unvote: Parama

for god's sake
really? this far into a game, and an unvote without any explanation!

My case was totally based on my thinking he was lying and making up a mod interaction that never happened. The mod proved that that interaction really happened. My unvote should have been pretty self-explanatory, and I was busy at the moment so I figured I'd do that much. I came back later when I had a few minutes to spare to find a player to vote for.

Your #24 is trying to beg the town to excuse you for pushing a case on a null-tell on what you know to be a townie because you're scum

Not sure if you misread that post or are misrepresenting it. That's not really what it was about.

#25 yet again your interaction with diddin with the "reminds me of my own tendencies when i play scum" is like trying to guide a fledgling scumbuddy into the lategame simply based upon the fact that he's a PR you don't want to lose

How's it going to help scumdiddin out for me to add that clause? So he knows not to do it again? If I just attacked him for doing it he'd know not to do it again.

he then chainsaws wrathchild somewhat with an FoS because he is suspicious of diddin. Sure, guys, lets lynch the noob. So, basically, he is pushing a null case on Parama when anyone would have done what he did regardless of alignment (actually scum would have picked a GOOD player to bomb who was V/LA imo), and is now defending scum by calling his attacker "scummy". Are you afraid to say he's scum? Do you not like to lie. You are scum. I don't mind saying it. I know I'm not, and you could be, and my heart is telling me you are, so I'll say what I feel. You are scum, you are scum, you are scum.

I never thought Parama was scum because he passed the potato to Muh. I've never said that. It was based on his word choice making me suspicious of his possible lying.
I call players scummy rather than scum. I don't know if anyone in this game is scum or not. I'm not an interdimensional Night Zero supercop.

I don't think even the best of scumhunting gets past 95% certainty, which is more than enough for me to say I'm not sure about something.

your lack of willingness to use the word scum vs scummy is noted, though most will disagree with me on that mattering. Then you say "but the only way wrathchild would no that is if he were scum and diddin were town, not the reverse" note how he used "no" instead of "know". I'm finding this to be a scumslip, but I'm already tunneling him, so finding his scumslips are ezpz.

Well, the basis for my nowdead attack on Parama was also based on Freudian slips. I'm surprised you couldn't empathize.

@themanhimself: I think you still don't quite "get" it. Dayvigging is a highly protown role. Today, diddin will kill people we identify as scummy, it will be like an extra lynch. Diddin has to do this no matter what alignment he has, because we'll lynch him if he doesn't.

Tomorrow, whoever has diddin's power has the same deal. It will probably be a townie, because scum can't pass abilities within their own faction, and towndiddin will try to identify a probtown player and pass him the ability.

It gives us a lot of kills in town control. That's a good thing. It's like if the town had two lynches a day.. it's a huge advantage.

@shooting implosion to remove the stump ability: yeah, that's how it works, but I don't feel like he's scum, so that'd be a shame. It does lower the threshhold for how suspicious he has to behave to become a good pick, but nothing he does bothers me.

@MoI's cycling plan: I reread the OP while I was rereading stuff and cycles resolve after kills. That mean when we say we have an ability, scum know who to shoot to remove abilities from the game. That doesn't really help us. The last game is probably the reason it's like that this game.

[popsofctown]

could you identify who your an alt of?

[popsofctown]

oh wow you are in this game


I don't remember you posting before.

[popsofctown]

FTR, I have played one game each with Diddin, Parama, and Red Coyote, they were all town and I do not see any material differences in playing style. I lean towards town on all three of these.

@all: This is a frequently disputed point of theory, but I see identifying protown players who are not in danger of lynch as a negative. It's just marking nightkill targets, and doesn't preserve their lives anymore than waiting until L-1 to speak up would.

There's arguments against that, like, roflcopter believes in some sort of weird mutally identified townie coalition that charges to victory or some such, but I don't buy it. But if you're into that I'll respect it.

But I would like to point out that in this game the drawbacks to identifying town players is increased. Players are likely to be making the same judgments in parallel, you're marking protown players for scum (who might be cognitively blocked from recognizing by their role, or perhaps are simpley inept) and then if those players get nightkilled and a bunch of townies cycle useful powers to that person, they all go to Disneyland. (the void).
Posting what you think about diddin was ok I guess, let's face it that dayvig power is drawing fire tonight anyway. Parama and RC seemed unnecessary to me though.

[popsofctown]

V/LA for a visit to relatives, i return on the 29th.

[popsofctown]

you won't be able to give it away unless you are scum
scum will totally kill you if you are town to get rid of that ability

Unless there are protective roles, or trackers, or mafia don't shoot him just because of aforementioned worry. I say it's well worth a shot since implosion seems protown atm if anything.

[popsofctown]

@RC: I'm mad @ u. Your playstyle seems more and more unreadable everytime I play with you.

That's okay because I'm town.

I need a read no matter what your faction is. I get the feeling you're one of those fellows that extensively uses the preview button with every alignment, making every alignment hard to read.

what are some topics I can comment on?

Instead of asking pops what you should be doing, why don't you you read the game for yourself? You're not in any danger of being replaced or anything. This is a weird comment.

[/quote]
Actually his post implies that he read the entire game and has nothing to say. That's normal, nothing scummy jumps out at you when you already know who the scum are.

The best way I believe for implosion to prove he is a treestump is to hammer someone. We see the vote, the mod would ignore it, meaning no hammer. Quick, dirty, doesn't waste a lynch.

I'm down with this.

L-1->Claim->Treestump Hammer->Diddin shoots claimant unless claim is epic. Should be procedure for first L-1 today.
[quote="RC]

Time to turn up the heat I think. VOTE: VOTE: AE8363413

Are you going to vote like this the whole game? Is this just to be different? Because I don't really want to have to go check back everytime you vote.
[/quote]
Yeah, for a mini the flavor thingie would be cute enough but this game is stressful... quickhammering nonsense seems the only use of the voting option.

I don't like the pressure that diddin is putting on the town here. It sounds like he's itching to use his dayvig power, which makes me wonder why.

I've noticed this as well, and it makes me more nervous. I don't like having diddin's finger on the trigger.

Use it or lose it. He wants his shot to be democratically executed today before the power is possibly lost tonight. As town he ought to want it to get used today. I don't see why people are acting suspicious of diddin based on how he has handled his dayvig ability because it's been appropriate in every way, not fullclaiming, making it democratic so it's an extra lynch, all that.

not done posting but i got to cut of. my A is L because of my V

[popsofctown]

HoS for newb and no attempt to learn or even read up on how mafia works

Meta Hunt
PM'd

[popsofctown]

Unvote

because pops (and a few others) are right that we really need to try and defend this ability the best we can. Town can generally only benefit from a day kill that is controlled by the community-at-large, regardless of how successful we are with it.

I'm going to go back to my

vote: Helghast

. I think this is a good lynch for today, and I don't think any other wagon (sans possibly EC) is really gaining any steam. He starts off by asking Parama to expand on his ability. Frankly, it reads more defensive than anything else to me. If it's not defensive then I read it as somewhat of a silly question anyways. Later he kind of drops the Parama situation altogether, which was a weird transition for a player who had, until that point, been focused 100% on Parama's ability. The rest of his posts have mostly been one liners that have given us nothing to go on. He hasn't voted, he hasn't "FoS'd" anyone, and he hasn't really given us any decent reads at all. He's just drifting by unaccounted for. Bottom line, when I read Helghast's posts I don't see them as a townie who is genuinely trying to scumhunt.

Not so different from my TheLonging vote, to be honest. Which by the way, is rescinded since replacement brings the promise of new information.

unvote

It's absolutely true that there's nothing protown in Helghast's posting, but there's not much posting either. I think the signal to noise ratio is a better barometer of alignment than the total volume of scumhunting work produced by any one player.

Really this is at least to some extent lurker hunting, but you don't seem to want to say that. Afraid of the stigma? There's definitely some people who will go after a player for admitting that most of the reason for a vote is because the target is going to lurk all game and give little actual info about their alignment. I've definitely taken flak for it before. But I think it's frequently proper strategy so I'll say it when I use it, I lurker hunt I lurker hunt I lurker hunt.

Red, are you going to stand by a statement that Helghast is as anti-town as it gets? There have been numerous other players with many more posts, many chances to say anti-town things that don't rub you right. Is the 60 second iso really as evil as it gets for you?

I'll be rereading the thread now, trying to identify the most appropriate place for my vote. It might be lurker hunting or it might be a scummy active, I'll see.

[popsofctown]

AntB, calm down. I doubt you'll get modkilled.


You should immediately post the contents of the pm in this thread though, if you're so penitent you should get on the right side of the spirit of the rule. The dude still has info he can review before we get to.

[popsofctown]

but you found it when you were oming? am confused

[popsofctown]

ebwop pming

[popsofctown]

Wow. I thought you PM'ed him nothing but a hyperlink, thinking they were illegal in the thread or something. That was a PM full of game relevant information.

Anyhow, stop posting. you're dead

mod, I actually can probably figure out the rest of this game without AntBs original alignment, but can we find out what cycling power died with him? I feel like concealing that info gives more advantage to the scum faction than the town one, since they have more info about the available powers than we do.

[popsofctown]

ebwop, the mod said he was a townie. I got confused by the town alignment being named after the mod :S

[popsofctown]

ebwop, maybe he didn't have a power.

I'm dumb today.

I'm gonna go drink a six pack of coke and see what that does for me.

[popsofctown]

+1 "bullets for Wrathchild". Brings the total to five, (Parama, The man himself, Diddin, popsofclown,

Ryuk

Lateralus) who support such a shot. His defense does little for me, there's always an RL reason for not posting but they get a lot more colorful when you're trying to be scum. And the manner in which he defended himself was more upsetting than the disproportionate focus on his self defense, and the latter is the only thing explained by RL factors.

After Helghast's reaction to pressure, or rather, lack of reaction really, I'm going to have to follow RC and

Vote: Helghast

. (meaning Wrathchild isn't the person I absolutely most want dead, but he's a number two or maybe three and I want things expedited so we have 2 lynches today. )


@chkflip: dude. The wiki is not God. It's a wiki for crying out loud..

[popsofctown]

It lacks so much authority I feel like asking if the abilities were modified from how they appear in my blawg.

[popsofctown]

After Helghast's reaction to pressure, or rather, lack of reaction really, I'm going to have to follow RC and

Vote: Helghast

. (meaning Wrathchild isn't the person I absolutely most want dead, but he's a number two or maybe three and I want things expedited so we have 2 lynches today. )


@chkflip: dude. The wiki is not God. It's a wiki for crying out loud..

Lack of reaction? Doesn't that just show I'm calm?
I have no role, so I can't really role claim.
Personally I am more suspicious of Diddin and Parama, but at the moment it's just a gut feeling.
So ya if you think I'm scum go ahead, but I'm saying right now that you will lose a townie.

....Do you even have a wincon?

@karmadog, i was confused in the same way you were..

[popsofctown]

ugh.


I hate reading new players.



I have negative thirty seven objections to switching to helghast. He's an infinitely better lynch/shot, that's why i'm voting him.

[popsofctown]

I don't see helghast as scum at all, I read and re-read his posts and I just don't see it. Lateralus however has given me a very weird vibe since he jumped in this game. Does anyone second that? I think a WC shot would give us a lot of information on someone who very well could be scum but I don't see it as necessary to a D1 scum lynch. I don't think I'd vote for a helghast shot but if you guys wanna discuss other candidates for day-vigging I'm sure I could be convinced. If we want to switch to a WC lynch though I'm not so sure that I would vote for that, seems like a waste of the effort to get a majority together when WC isnt obv-scum in my eyes, whereas a dayvig shot is much more easily decided.

[popsofctown]

His last post may be a chainsaw, but those read null without a flip.

Of course.

I can't remember who Narsis is, so that's probably not a horrible shot. But I'd really like to see the ugly side of Helghast floating down the river, there seems to be no hope of seeing behavior that will change my current read on him.

(and powerless..)

[popsofctown]

joke or not, I don't like that you're spending any amount of thought on how other players perceive you. It's not very Erucilicious.

[popsofctown]

on this topic, diddin should not count his vote as double or triple. He needs to shoot the person who the MOST people vote for, either by majority or a plurality near deadline.

If he picks between the top cantidates he could be picking the nontown person and that defeats the point.

[popsofctown]

I volunteer to play two roles at once

[popsofctown]

The wiki is god implosion.

[popsofctown]

no ask chkflip about it the wiki is god

[popsofctown]

Rather large catch-up post incoming ….

Pops’ 188

rings my scum-dar for lurker hunting (Longing) and continuing with an unproductive thought process on Cycling Powers.

I do it with both alignments. It's good play. Deal with it. Lurking is a weak scumtell, and a promise not to be readable for the rest of the game.

I don’t like that Diddin claimed under zero pressure. That he did so as a Dayvig makes me wonder the following –

It was horrible. But there was precedent, and diddin comes off to me as one of those guys that does this sort of thing from both sides of the aisle. He's scummy, but that's not why.

The last paragraph of

RedCoyote’s 174

reads as fencesitting.

Explain why fencesitting is a scumtell, or this is an offtopic post. I've been accused of fencesitting in far more of my town games than scum ones and still fail to understand how it's a scumtell, so you'll need to enlighten me.

-incomplete post

[popsofctown]

It's antitown the entire game. Putting off the task of removing it will just make it more difficult :/

No it is not anti-Town the entire game. The ability to publicly pass it for several days gives us solid sets of X and Y are not scum together data. If you insist on looking at the downsides long-term at least consider the positives generated along the way.

The net result is still negative. Info about who is not scum with who seems to only have marginally use. One of two players has to flip scum, and then we only get one confirmed innocent.

In all likelihood there are tons of cycling powers in play, so we should be getting a bunch of other similar data with or without the treestump power in play. The issue won't be connecting players, it will be finding that first scumbag per faction (multiple mafias seems very likely to me in light of the intrafactional limitation on the cycling mechanic).

No, really, you just get a strong town consensus and say "dayvig this guy or you hang from a rope".
He'll dayvig a townie and then hang from a rope, we either bag a scum or get free lynches.

So you would rather eliminate a Cycling ability before any Paired Relational information could be generated or before it could be passed to a Townie who could Dayvig scum-Diddin?

193 should say "He'll dayvig a townie

or

hang from a rope", as would be consistent with the first sentence of the post. I'm not sure if this is the source of confusion here. But if Diddin roguely shoots some player he's not authorized to kill, yes, the correct move is to lynch him. A scumbag with the daykill ability will simply cycle the ability to player X and nightkill player X that same night to permanently remove the daykill ability from the game. There'd be no hope of salvaging the ability by hoping he's forced to pass it to a townie as you suggest. Even protown roles would have little ability to rescue the daykill ability, a scumpartner could send in the kill so we won't know who to roleblock, and he can pick any townie to kill+pass to so you don't know who to protect.

Identifying who he is going to pass his daykill ability is HORRIBLE because scum can shoot that person and remove the vig ability from the game permanently. .

So does lynching Diddin if he doesn’t bow to public pressure which is sure to have some Mafia influence. Yet you are all for that.

See above. And democratic daykilling is bad because the mafia are influencing it? Man, we should stop lynching, the mafia influence that too. vote: No lynch. *eyeroll*

@MoI's cycling plan: I reread the OP while I was rereading stuff and cycles resolve after kills. That mean when we say we have an ability, scum know who to shoot to remove abilities from the game. That doesn't really help us. The last game is probably the reason it's like that this game.

Then either your reading comprehension is bad or this is a scum-motivated post. You claim an ability AFTER you pass it. And the abilities worked just the same in the last game.

Reading comprehension is poor. I thought your original plan was for people to claim D1 that they had som ability they were going to pass to someone, but that a D2 thing not a D1 thing upon rereading your post. My mistake, nothing wrong with your plan and I /support it.

Diddin, if you shoot WC without at least 10 or more people saying "go for it" that you quote in a post, I am going to push your lynch so hard.

So you would push for a proven Dayvig power to be lynched based on him not following orders when –

1. If he is Scum he MUST pass it to someone other than his own partners
2. If he is Town Scum has to use their NK to eliminate it if they don’t think he will pass it to them
3. Whoever Diddin would pass it to would provide Mafia Pairing elimination
4. Lynching said proven Cycling power assures it is taken out of the game

1 is valid, but that same player is the player he'd shoot. And it's not like we're forcing him to shoot any particular player, he just plants the dayvig power on whatever he wanted to kill that night anyway.
2 is invalid. He won't shoot roguely if he's town. It makes no sense for his wincon.
3. is invalid, that player he passes to will be dead from scum NK, no pairing is made.
4 is invalid because the power is doomed anyway.

Post 437

No, I'm not scum because I support a better procedure for handling the dayvig than you do. It just means you don't understand it yet, or at the very worst, I'm mistaken. Knowingly pushing bad theory is something I would never try, have never tried, and have never seen with either alignment. It's next to impossible to make a town go along with incorrect approach to the setup, 25 (or even 12) players can't and won't be that dumb. Pushing bad theory as scum has a risk with almost no possible reward.


And lurker hunting is good play when no better cases are available. I could explain why, but since the reason we disagree isn't "we have different wincons so we therefore have different viewpoints", I doubt you'd accept the reason at this point.

Post Count:

-curiouskarmadog: 28
-diddin: 27
-popsofctown: 54
-Parama: 35
-Saint/Vi: 27

Lol...

Perhaps I need to slow down. Most of those even close to my post count have a shorter average post length than me in my rough estimation >_<


@WrathChild: Type "open bracket, b, close bracket" before what you want to bold, then after you've typed that part you wish to appear bold, type [/b] .
This allows you to use the quick reply to bold, similar functions are

for italics,

for underline,

for colored text in most crayon box colors, and

for quoting other players.
You can close all those with a similar ending as bold uses, but you leave off the ='s stuff for color and quote, and just use the key word.

[popsofctown]

I <3 StrangerCoug he's the coolest

[popsofctown]

Your name has turned green though. Is it feeling sick?

[popsofctown]

give your name a warm cup of chamomile tea maybe it will feel better.

[popsofctown]

mod, I actually can probably figure out the rest of this game without AntBs original alignment, but can we find out what cycling power died with him? I feel like concealing that info gives more advantage to the scum faction than the town one, since they have more info about the available powers than we do.

Pops, rereading this made me have the following questions:
1) What did you exactly mean that "I actually can probably figure out the rest of this game without AntBs original alignment"
2) What did you exactly mean "I feel like concealing that info gives more advantage to the scum faction than the town one, since they have more info about the available powers than we do."

Thinking about this more from my end:
1) Assuming just 2 factions, scum would know that AntB was not on there team and wouldn't care about this information which you did not. As a townie / Eruci, had the mod not told me AntB's alignment, I would have wanted to know that. But this was not the case with you.

2) I am also wondering if it is more beneficial to scum to know lost power roles than town. Like a cop or doctor role....us losing them and not knowing about them does not hurt the town imo, but that knowledge could help the scum decide whether or not to try to take out a player with the dayvig or not.

Keep in mind I misread the mod's post as "AntB turned into a Neutral Survivor and died. Move on." So it seemed to indicate that for some reason or other related to the offense, the mod didn't think it was fit to reveal the player's alignment.

Since AntB had posted very little this game and seemed rather unconnected to other players, knowing his original alignment didn't seem like it would help me scumhunt the rest of the game. That's why I said I could probably "figure out", as in, identify everyone's alignment, without knowing what his was. So I wasn't going to protest the mod's imagined decision not to reveal AntB's alignment, not because I perceived a visibly good reason but because it really wouldn't help me anyhow.

As for 2), knowing the powers that died with the player helps town less than scum because we have less info. We only get to know our own power, if we have one. Scum know their own power and all their teammates'.

So the ratio of town knowledge to scum knowledge of the setup might be, say, 3:6. If you add one to each side by revealing AntB's power, it goes to 4:7, which is a better ratio. As the gap between the scum and town's knowledge of the setup decreases, our town night targetting will get as good as the scum's, and some day decisions too.

[popsofctown]

AntB,

Eruci

altered to

Neutral Survivor

, executed by The Judges Day 1.

---

Day One Continues.

oooh I see..."Name, Eruci altered to Survivor"...

I read it as "Name, Mod altered to Survivor".....

I think what happened here was he read it as 'The Mod altered AntB to Neutral Survivor' since Eruci is the mod name in this game. I'm more suspicious of pops' reaction in that situation.

That's the same misread I made. I just didn't explain it in as much detail because I'm not as paranoid.

[popsofctown]

The wiki is a better source of info than implosion's role pm...


There's no way you would come to that conclusion unless you believed the wiki was a deity worthy of your worship.

[popsofctown]

@MOD – Please confirm that Mafia members are prohibited from trying to pass a Cycling Power to a player they will use their Factional kill on.

@Pops

– I’ll be addressing your responses that started at 445 but as I addressed above a large part of your arguments about Diddin as scum eliminating the abilities I think are invalid. In 1040 when NoPoint as scum was passed the Vig power he was prevented from passing it to either myself or LMP (the Factional and Vig shots that night). I don’t see anything in Mod’s rules the demonstrate this process had changed. If I am correct in my thoughts than any argument that follows the line that 'we lynch Diddin if we think he is scum because he'll just pass the ability to a dead player' are invalid.

That's not anywhere in the rules of this game. I'll be rather upset if it's an "invisible" rule.

If this is true, then the source of our disagreement is a misunderstanding of the game's mechanics, reducing a large portion of your case on me to "Pops refused to spend 4 hours to read 1040". That's not very voteworthy at all.

I do it with both alignments. It's good play. Deal with it. Lurking is a weak scumtell, and a promise not to be readable for the rest of the game.

And lurker hunting is good play when no better cases are available.

So which is it … good play or conditional good play? Because even at the point where you went lurker hunting I think there was scummy behavior being exhibited that warranted pressure.

Also, self provided meta is as useful as a $3 bill.

I know better than to try to defend myself with meta, silly. I spent six words on my own meta, and it's for explanatory purposes so you can understand lurker hunting is part of my philosophy.

Lurking is a weak scumtell and generally a promise not to be readable for the rest of the game. I will target a lurker if I don't find someone significantly scummier in the town. (They have to be significantly scummier, to overrule the other reason for lynching lurkers, that they tend not to be readable for the entire game).

If you want to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there were players who were more scummy in the town in that point in time, and that I am so competent at mafia that I wouldn't have missed that as a townie, please, go ahead, and show your work. Since town's only lynch a few percentage points above random chances, though, I somehow think there's room for honest disagreement.

Explain why fencesitting is a scumtell, or this is an offtopic post. I've been accused of fencesitting in far more of my town games than scum ones and still fail to understand how it's a scumtell, so you'll need to enlighten me.

Fencesitting is a scum-tell. When fence-sitting you are establishing a position that can be used to argue that you were correct on an issue at a later date, regardless of which way the issue fell. Town doesn’t generally have need to do so this and be able to say "See, I found WC Town / Scum" regardless of the outcome when people begin looking at relational tells.

Seems just as dependent on flips as chainsawing. I don't see any validity going on here unless one of the targets the fence sitter feebly poked at was actually scum.

The net result is still negative. Info about who is not scum with who seems to only have marginally use. One of two players has to flip scum, and then we only get one confirmed innocent.

Disagreed completely. In the later stages of the game having a large pool of information about players who cannot be scum of the same alignment with other players is invaluable to a PoE process, which Town will likely be using since no Town roles look to be ‘set’ in this game.

We'll disagree then. I think connecting players before actually identifying them as scum is massively difficult and take no stock in it.

And democratic daykilling is bad because the mafia are influencing it? Man, we should stop lynching, the mafia influence that too. vote: No lynch. *eyeroll*

I love this dismissiveness. Straw-manning for the

win

loss.

Explain the superior alternative method of directing the daykill. Have a confirmed innocent do it? There is none. Have a townie people think is protown decide? (that's not diddin, you know). Still democratic at its route. Tell Diddin not to daykill anyone? Then the lynch comparison is totally fair.

I'm sorry if it looked like a strawman. I intended only to debunk "mafia influence as a drawback to democratic daykills", not your entire set of policies based on that point. I have to take things one piece at a time.

No, I'm not scum because I support a better procedure for handling the dayvig than you do. It just means you don't understand it yet, or at the very worst, I'm mistaken. Knowingly pushing bad theory is something I would never try, have never tried, and have never seen with either alignment. It's next to impossible to make a town go along with incorrect approach to the setup, 25 (or even 12) players can't and won't be that dumb. Pushing bad theory as scum has a risk with almost no possible reward.

Yeah, I’m almost positive that you aren’t supporting a ‘better’ procedure when it eliminates possible information. And again, self-provided meta is useless. Finally you overestimate any Town’s ability to be led with scum-driven advice when there is enough vocal and powerful personalities in the scum pool.

It is a better procedure if the mod doesn't have an invisible rule. If there is an invisible rule, I can't be expected to know that when I develop a strategy. It's abundantly clear from my repetition of the kill+cycle possibility and your disputing of kill+cycle legality that everything hinges on that point.

"Finally you overestimate any Town's ability to be led with scum driven advice when there is enough vocal and powerful personalities in the scum pool."
Vocality is correlated with being town aligned, posting makes you readable so scum avoid posting. So unless you know that specific vocal people are scum, which you can't possibly know as town, this statement is ridiculous.

And please identify what your alternative to a democratic dayvig is.

@chkflip re 471

– You feel the need to respond to Pops non-game related comment regarding the Wiki but nothing regarding being called scum by me?

Well, I had become rather abrasive.

I agree with what you are saying but I don’t ascribe to letting diddin divest himself of responsibility. As Town I think the proper course of action is to let him make the shot himself and thus bear the responsibility for it.

Woooooow. This is what you want to happen?

Why don't we do this with lynches Magna? It's quite feasible. I nominate a player we're curious about, say, chkflip. We tell chkflip to select a player to die today. He votes that person, we all vote with him, he takes full responsibility.

Please, please, explain the difference. There's a reason we don't nominate "Kiras of the day" to pick someone to die. That player has an X/N chance of being scum, the amount of scum influence doesn't change with the method. The kill doesn't provide conclusive evidence about the player's alignment, chkflip might mislynch a townie because he made an honest mistake. And we get info about one players alignment instead of every single player on a giant wagon.

All of this applies with diddin. When a dayclaim is outed, and a democratic down dictates how it will be used by ultimatum, it becomes identical to a lynch, it's a death of the day that will go to the most popular target. Bundling that responsibility back up and handing it to one person is the same as proxying 20 votes to an arbitrary player is.

The only possible justification for this would be that learning diddin's alignment is considerably more important than anyone else's because of his power, but that justification doesn't even exist in this game! He has to cycle his power! He's a VT tomorrow morning as much as I am. Why don't I get to choose the dayvigging today. Why don't you?

[popsofctown]

This is hypocritical, Magna. You say this and then in the next breath say Narsis or EC should be shot. Longing/Lateralus has more posts than EC and Narsis combined as of WC's post count.

It is absolutely not hypocritical.

1. EC is not a lurker and I don’t see how you attempt to classify him as such.
2. Regardless of how many posts Lateralus has made since replacing in when Pops made her lurker-vote Longing had between 2 and 4 posts. You can’t say give Pops credit for pushing on an active player when the activity came after the push. The fact that Pops has agree that she was lurker hunting makes this particular part of the argument by you confusing to me.
3. You are mis-repping my position. I stated that all four of my suspects would be good Vig targets (as I think all are scummy). I stated the Narsis was the best of the four due to low activity. If you disagree that Vigging scummy players with low activity is better than Vigging scummy players who post a lot (and therefore are more likely to slip / respond when questioned) we have a difference of opinion.
4. If it was hypocritical I’d be voting for Narsis. I’m not voting for the ‘lurker’. I’m voting for Pops, the active scum.

Yeah, timestamps are important here. I don't perceive any hypocrisy either.

@MOD – Please confirm that Mafia members are prohibited from trying to pass a Cycling Power to a player they will use their Factional kill on.

The only restriction any existing anti-town faction may have on their cycling abilities is that they may not pass a standard ability to any living partner that they may have.

Narsis is now under replacement, simply waiting for confirmation from the replacement.

Most of the V/LA that have been announced should be expiring today.

You should go hang out with chkflip and read past games and wikis so you two can skip reading rules and lose games. You had pages and pages to clarify this point, and now your mistake has wasted a lot of time and energy.

[popsofctown]

I think connecting players before actually identifying them as scum is massively difficult and take no stock in it.

Ummmm… the whole point of this technique is that with the cycling mechanic, connecting players is a built-in feature. I don’t know how to do the math, but my guess is that by D3, between flips and connections from ability passing (assuming we do this based on MoI’s plan, which I haven’t seen any arguments against) we’ll be able to know that at least 1 or 2 additional players are scum. I don’t understand what your beef is with this.

Scum flips + connection info = yes, very useful, very helpful. Players that are proven not to share a faction with a dead scum are proven town.

Connection info + connection info = worthless. That can only be used to speculate on possible entire scumteams. I've never seen games won by someone saying, "Oh, I see it now, X, Y, and Z are on a scumteam together, and you can tell by the way they interact. Let's lynch them in any order."
Doesn't happen. "X flipped scum, let's check out his interactions with Y and Z." is very useful, because there aren't as many unknowns.


In the quoted post I say "I think connecting players before actually identifying them as scum is massively difficult and take no stock in it". By that I mean, connection info via the cycles isn't useful until we have scumflips. That's when X isn't scum with Y can start painting pictures.


The reason I was emphasizing the uselessness of connections without scumflips is because we'll have tons of connection info off cycles, but we have a treestump ability that makes it harder for us to get that first scumflip. MoI wants to leave the treestump ability around so we can get even more connection info. To me, that's like going out to buy more sugar when you have 3 bags of sugar for your lemonade and no lemons. (the sugar being the connection info we'll get anyway, the lemons being that first scumflip that gets easier once the treestump ability is removed from the game).
(For the sake of wordcount, I'll leave you to read my old posts if you want an explanation of how the treestump makes it hard to lynch scum)

[popsofctown]

before pops has the time to deter the wagon on his scumbuddy helghast who is merely a lurker scum who doesn't care as much

I'm voting Helghast. I support his vigging. I've explained why he should die to the fullest extent his scant posting makes it possible. How in the sam hill could any of my activity look like I'm trying to deter the wagon on Helghast?

@tmh, still want summaries or did you break and read the posts?

[popsofctown]

Chainsawing- Player A defends Player B from Player C by accusing Player C of being scum.
Is a scumtell, but since A and B have to be scum together for it to be the case you usually wait for a flip.

Defending a player by explaining why the case is invalid is usually more what town defending town looks like.

[popsofctown]

Vote in black bold on this site, please..

[popsofctown]

You don’t increase the amount of information available by directing the vig. It is just a shadow of the regular scum-hunting going on. Yet you do remove another level of information about a player by directing diddin's actions.

What is the difference in him voting someone for vigging and vigging that player himself?

If the reply is that he can vote someone for vigging he doesn't expect to die, look, that dynamic also affects everyone else in the town, to a diminished extent perhaps, but multiplied by many more players.

It doesn't have to be chkflip, but I'm pointing out that if you want one person to dictate who gets shot today so you can read that player, there's absolutely no reason you have to select diddin. You could select any other player, as a town tell diddin that he must kill whoever that player recommends, and both diddin and your nominee would have to do it on pain of death. If you really want to read people based on them killing, you should select the player you most want to read, at least. I personally want to read all of them with a second lynch.

Chainsawing- Player A defends Player B from Player C by accusing Player C of being scum.
Is a scumtell, but since A and B have to be scum together for it to be the case you usually wait for a flip.

Defending a player by explaining why the case is invalid is usually more what town defending town looks like.

But I don't see that kind of chainsaw that often. What I do see alot of is scumX attacks townY for accusing townZ of being scum.

The term doesn't apply to that, to the best of my knowledge. *shrug*

Yes sorry about my wall TMH. I'm like you I don't understand whats taking so long. Wich why I asked if Diddin killed Muh.

I claim conditional dayvig. Now that the virus is active, I can "centralize" it on someone to get rid of it, killing the person. I am considering shooting WrathChild. Yay or nay?

It

SOUNDS

like it requires the virus and Muh was killed be the virus. Am I the only one thinking this?

IF

this is the case then Diddin gets major scum points for pretending like he still had a kill and leaving you with just over a week to discuss a lynch.

Read the thread. Diddin's daykill ability never would have been usable if the hot potato never exploded. Once the hot potato exploded he became able to daykill.

I'm confused about what happens on subsequent days though. Is he going to pass it in an activated form with X charges of shooting left in it? That's my best understanding atm.



Powerrox's last defense of Helghast was ridiculous, but since it gains much more info based on Helghast's alignment and we know Helghast definitely has no powers (he preemptively claimed so, something that makes me find him scummy), I prefer Helghast be the one to die.

Vig: Helghast

(still)

[popsofctown]

I withdraw my Wrathchild vigavote

[popsofctown]

Why aren't you vigging helghast now?

Do you not really have a daykill?

What the heck.

[popsofctown]

diddin you can't even vig helghast tomorrow you have to cycle your ability.

The town chose helghast. Shoot him now, or you're going down on a Lynch all Liars basis.

[popsofctown]

Hey quadz.
I don't even care about what you want from me. If you find it scummy that I haven't responded, then you're going to hate me after this game's over.

this is too ballsy to me scummy....ugh

From Parama? No

while I still have a small pinky fos on Diddin

@Everyone else: Please join me on this wagon. It's awesome. Quadz is also an acceptable wagon.

That is quite a scummy bit, but I have to

vote: Powerrox

If he made the comment 4 times thats just insane

[popsofctown]

I in no way understand the powerrox wagon, I just read him in ISO and without over-exaggerating I see him as extremely likely town. His last posts were all trying to understand why helghast was scummy and helghast flipped town.

[popsofctown]

[popsofctown]

normal vernacular, I usually do it some, this game I felt like stepping it up.

Powerrox is not scum for thinking Helghast is town. Powerrox was scum for thinking Helghast was town for no verifiable reason, refusing to offer real opinion and comment on it, and not defending Helghast in a way that would stop his lynch.

667 was such blatant, frustrating WIFOM that I couldn't post in words in reaction even if I tried.

[popsofctown]

I hate to be the guy that says this, but we've had

three

townie deaths today..... maybe a no lynch wouldn't be such a bad idea?

So whats your problem with a powers lynch? I do not like your fear mongering.

I'm really getting sick of CKD and his constant needing to catch up or reread. Contents or die.

hey asshat...I am caught up, I need to reread given the new information...why arent you doing that???!?!? of course, you probably missed that too didnt you...you know what I am tired of...you saying shit that isnt true, then backtracking when you are called out for it...at first I thought is a mistake...but you have done it 2-3 times now

unvote, vote Nero Cain.

you have done absolutely NOTHING protown in the game...you bitch that I havent put forth any content, but you have done JACK SHIT....not to mention, I bet you havent checked my other current games to see if (i dont know) actually didnt have time to post earlier this week...

you are not scum hunting only coasting by

^^^^^way to defensive for a townie.

+1 internets

[popsofctown]

With muh flipping town

VOTE: Parama

I'm going to believe muh on that one

I think muh flipping town was a null-read and I think it's looking for a mislynch to push parama about it so this vote has some scum on it.

This ISO's power level is over 9000!

null read really... another null-read... it's just a null-read to me.

Heard of active lurking?



@RC: I don't think it's too late for a tmh wagon, but his recent behavior doesn't seem scummy, just stupid. Powerrox is scummier.

@Bunnylover:Kills resolve before cycles, removing abilities from the game. I think you can redo the math about massclaiming on your own.

@curious karma dog: very defensive behavior is scummy, because a scum player's survival is more important to his wincon than a town player's is to him. Admittedly it's not the best tell since town players still want to live, but there is a difference that can be exploited and read.

@diddin: If it's recharging, it'd bastard modding for there to be no way you can get a kill out of it again, virus or not, so I'd cycle accordingly.

[popsofctown]

The manhimself has produced further evidence that suggests powerrox is scum.

Vote: Powerrox

[popsofctown]

@MOD – Please confirm that Mafia members are prohibited from trying to pass a Cycling Power to a player they will use their Factional kill on.

@Pops

– I’ll be addressing your responses that started at 445 but as I addressed above a large part of your arguments about Diddin as scum eliminating the abilities I think are invalid. In 1040 when NoPoint as scum was passed the Vig power he was prevented from passing it to either myself or LMP (the Factional and Vig shots that night). I don’t see anything in Mod’s rules the demonstrate this process had changed. If I am correct in my thoughts than any argument that follows the line that 'we lynch Diddin if we think he is scum because he'll just pass the ability to a dead player' are invalid.

That's not anywhere in the rules of this game. I'll be rather upset if it's an "invisible" rule.

Why, maybe it is a scenario the mod overlooked? Wouldn't a ruling in that fashion be protown, so why be upset?

Upset as in angered, not upset as in sad. I would be ticked at the mod for letting me go so many pages planning strategy based on the rules provided if his original intent was different and ticked that he didn't write the rules correctly in the first place.
I would probably be too irked at the bad modding to bother rejoicing.

Lurking is a weak scumtell and generally a promise not to be readable for the rest of the game. I will target a lurker if I don't find someone significantly scummier in the town. (They have to be significantly scummier, to overrule the other reason for lynching lurkers, that they tend not to be readable for the entire game).

My philosophy on lurkers is that 1) they are easy targets for scum to go after and 2) if they are town and lurking, chances are they are usually disinterested and will be replaced. So attacking lurkers early on in the game, like D1, seems either counter-productive, or scummy.

Generally I only will lynch a lurker if he seems like he will not be replaced.

I still don't understand this phrase, "easy target", that I've heard all across mafiascum. What does it mean?

Aren't scum easier to attack than other players? So then wouldn't being an easy target be correlated with being scummy? So why would it ever be used as an argument, ever?

We'll disagree then. I think connecting players before actually identifying them as scum is massively difficult and take no stock in it.

You disagree with me too then. Not saying that the game is in the bag with this technique, but even randomly lynching people we will stumble on a scum or two along the way. At that point, you have CONFIRMED INNOCENTS of anyone who passed a power to them, or got a power passed from them. This could be huge at endgame, and to take "no stock" in it feels scummy.

I clarified that comment in one of my longer posts, you are arguing against it in its original state. Are you reading the thread?

You should go hang out with chkflip and read past games and wikis so you two can skip reading rules and lose games. You had pages and pages to clarify this point, and now your mistake has wasted a lot of time and energy.

The first sentence I find very scummy. Trying to discredit other players is a favorite tell I use to catch scum.

Sorry, I forgot the sarcasm tags. The first sentence was sarcastic. You must have read it as me telling those two players to go read games to get better as mafia. Read the first sentence as sarcasm, and you'll see that I'm referring to the fact they both prefer outside sources of rules info over the rules info provided ingame. The sentence will make a lot more sense that way.

If you read the post correctly to begin with, then the charge of me "discrediting" other players is rather invalid, I'm upset about a specific incident and a narrow flaw.

[popsofctown]

The reason I was emphasizing the uselessness of connections without scumflips is because we'll have tons of connection info off cycles,

but we have a treestump ability that makes it harder for us to get that first scumflip

. MoI wants to leave the treestump ability around so we can get even more connection info. To me, that's like going out to buy more sugar when you have 3 bags of sugar for your lemonade and no lemons. (the sugar being the connection info we'll get anyway, the lemons being that first scumflip that gets easier once the treestump ability is removed from the game).
(For the sake of wordcount, I'll leave you to read my old posts if you want an explanation of how the treestump makes it hard to lynch scum)

What does the treestump ability have to do with nailing a scum?

I still have 9 pages to read, and I assume you can find your old post faster than me...

Ctrl F and posts by user can get you far.

Anyhow, the treestump ability prevents scum from being lynched and prevents townies (who tend to vote for scum more than scum do) from voting). If we want to lynch a treestump player, we're put off a day. Or wagons on scum might not gain the steam they deserve because a townie doesn't have a vote.

The ability basically damages day game, which is all VTs have.

@ attacks
They should have valid scumtells that are reasons to attack them. Because they're scum.

I can see why attacking someone who is V/LA would be bad. Not sure I fully understand the express yourself stuff..

[popsofctown]

More powerrox votes please.

His iso is terrible.

[popsofctown]

I still have 9 pages to read, and I assume you can find your old post faster than me...

Ctrl F and posts by user can get you far.

Yeah I am aware, and if I didn't feel like reading through another 4 pages of iso after my 11 pages total of catchup the last day or so, I would have done so.

Searching for one or two relevant posts =/= reading four pages. A page of effort at the most.

Anyhow, the treestump ability prevents scum from being lynched and prevents townies (who tend to vote for scum more than scum do) from voting). If we want to lynch a treestump player, we're put off a day. Or wagons on scum might not gain the steam they deserve because a townie doesn't have a vote.

The ability basically damages day game, which is all VTs have.

1) Prevents scum from being lynched - I say it pushes it off one day. I also say there are more than 1 scum likely. You can still find them. Weak argument
2) Prevents town from voting - Well if a town player has the tree stump, it also prevent said town player from being lynched, so theoretically the mafia that day have a better chance of being lynched ratio wise. And early in the game, I don't think one townie vote is going to stop a scum wagon that often. Weak Argument

1.)If you delay the lynch a day, that scum is using night actions an additional night. I would file that with not good.
2.)A townie vote can matter. And it's unlikely the stumpholder will be in risk of lynch to begin with, because it's not really a good idea to cycle the thing to a scummy player.

These are minor things though. The big thing is being an entire townie behind in Lylo. Actually, it's possible to be two townies behind. It can lose 4-2 town to scum advantages. In a 4-2 setup with a townie holding the stump, it's lylo, and if the townies select a lynch target correctly the scum can vote no lynch instead and accept a 2/3 chance of victory. Math in the spoiler.

Spoiler: Math

Town
Town
Town
Town<Stump
Scum
Scum
-----
No lynch (only if they can't get townies to mislynch for the loss)
-----
Town
Town
Town
Town<Stump
Scum
Scum
-----
Night kill, 2/3s chance of
------
Town<Stump
Town
Town
Scum
Scum
------
No lynch
------
Town<Stump
Town
Town
Scum
Scum
------
Game sealing nightkill
------
Town
Town
Scum
Scum

If the stump is passed to scum, it goes from that original starting state to this on day 2.
Town
Town
Town
Scum<stump
Scum
-----
nonstump scum is lynched
-----
Town
Town
Town
Scum<stump
------
Night kill one, pass to another
------
Town
Town>stump
Scum
------
No lynch, endgame.
------

The worst argument for the tree stump is how it pushes up LyLo one day. We can get rid of it now (or could have with the dayvig), but I am of the mindset to keep it now. I like the scum matching thing and the more of that we have, the more valuable it is than the possibility we may push up LyLo one day. (Multiple Confirmed Innocents > Add 1 day to LyLO imo).

One cycling ability isn't going to consistently make multiple confirmed innocents. The day after the day after the cycle, we find out two people aren't on a scumteam. Not a whole group, just those two people. If one of those two has to be scum, and has to be dead. The other one has to be town, and has to be alive. It's very conditional. The same info may even overlap from all the other roles we have, for instance if two players cycled to eachother, or if a certain player always cycles to one guy he trusts, then it doesn't matter if he gets tree stump AND jester space marine, it just matters if he at least gets jester space marine so he can confirm that he's not scum with the guy he's cycling to.

One or maybe two confirmed innocents, and even that is just information. You don't win the game when you can tell the mod who the scum are, you win the game when town bodies are the only ones alive.

Confirmed innocents can make lynches a little more intelligent, but living townies keep you from losing the game. If you had to try to pick which of five facedown cards was the ace of spades, would you rather have one choice eliminated for you, or would you rather get a second guess even if you guessed wrong at first? That's the difference between extra days and extra info.

@ attacks
They should have valid scumtells that are reasons to attack them. Because they're scum.

It's that easy huh. Can you list the players in this game that have valid scumtells and tell me what those scumtells are?

I can't. What I can do is point out what I perceive as scumtells during the course of the entire game, and see how the perceived tells matchup against actual alignments and see if I beat random chances. I might not beat random chances this game, but if I don't beat random chances in most of my games, my scumhunting only hurts the town (or fails to help it) and there's no point in me participating in the day's conversation at all.

If I do beat random chances, it's because in that mix of arbitrary scumtells that were just targetting noise, there were valid scumtells that evidenced a player's alignment was mafia. And that's what I meant when I say scum should, almost by definition, be easier to attack.

You [diddin] explained it, but like others have said, it seemed very opportunistic. Esp now that we know that one of those was town. The other feels town to me now, so it would be beneficial to scum to use that as an excuse to ensure an extra town death.

One of his two narrowed targets flipped town. But for diddin's narrowing of the daykill down to even suggest a scum alignment requires that 1. Wrathchild be town, 2. EtherealCookie be scum (or whoever it was he refused to lynch pretty sure it was Ecookie). Even then, townDiddin might have narrowed his targets down because he didn't want to kill town power, as he said, and he didn't want to vote someone with few votes/vigvotes, as he said. Considering several of us threatened him with ropey death that's really expected behavior.
You need another flip to even talk about this point, and two for me to be concerned.

The first thing I saw is that three town aligned players are dead, and it might be useful to know if they died holding abilities. In fact, from my quick skim of the first 6 pages, I saw that muh died because of an ability that he was given, so now I am assuming that abilities are not revealed. I hope we haven't lost anything useful. I guess

Second player on my suspect list to ask this question. Noted.[/quote]
If a starting player asked this it'd be one thing, but nhammen is replacing into a massive game. Asking this question rather than poring over the rules and posts until he figures it out is reasonable. I know laziness and game unawareness are considered to be scum aligned among many, but I think it's fair for a player on either side of the aisle to ask for the help catching up. Did you mean something else here?

I hope we haven't lost anything useful. I guess

Are watchers useful?

Oh, right, it is dangerous to give anti town roles to the person we find scummiest. Maybe we do this for the person we find towniest?

You are seriously suggesting to kill off the towniest player? Or am I misreading this? Or am I reopening two week old discussions that have already been resolved?

I recanted the poor fruit of my brainstorming, and that seemed to be enough for most all of the town.

At the point I suggested this, I still wasn't used to the CONSTANT cycling nature of this theme game and was trying to think in mafia terms. Cycling and stable roles got mixed in my head, and I thought of the treestump as something that could possibly shield an obvscum indefinitely. It's bad, but not that bad, it's forced to move off of scummy players. Definitely should only be removed along with a scummy player, or at least a null.

~Spoiler adjusted to preserve intent and content, and meet player request. Also some tags fixed.

[popsofctown]

i'm sorry, i thought it was one of those open/close spoilers . That would have been suitable.

Mod can you remove the tags?

[popsofctown]

Spoiler: Math

Town
Town
Town
Town<Stump
Scum
Scum
-----
No lynch (only if they can't get townies to mislynch for the loss)
-----
Town
Town
Town
Town<Stump
Scum
Scum
-----
Night kill, 2/3s chance of
------
Town<Stump
Town
Town
Scum
Scum
------
No lynch
------
Town<Stump
Town
Town
Scum
Scum
------
Game sealing nightkill
------
Town
Town
Scum
Scum

If the stump is passed to scum, it goes from that original starting state to this on day 2.
Town
Town
Town
Scum<stump
Scum
-----
nonstump scum is lynched
-----
Town
Town
Town
Scum<stump
------
Night kill one, pass to another
------
Town
Town>stump
Scum
------
No lynch, endgame.

[popsofctown]

I'm not just gonna shoot on instinct. I plan on using this vig shot like a second lynch because I don't know how many I have left. We should definitely all agree on a daykill before I do my thing.

I just wish to shoot before the day is over. We can decide this democratically, you know.

We use my kill today like a second lynch...

Also we've already decided to vote on who I shoot.

But Diddin. The daykills give us NO info about your alignment. If you don't use them in a democratic town-guided way, I'll see to it you hang from a rope. Daykill initiative is somewhat tolerable in games where it's more likely the role is on a townie, less in this game.

Diddin, if you shoot WC without at least 10 or more people saying "go for it" that you quote in a post, I am going to push your lynch so hard.

WELL I GUESS HE JUST YANKED IT OUT OF THE FRICKIN' AIR

[popsofctown]

Man.
I just don't like this game at all.
I'll try posting, but it's boring because I have no action and because there's way too many walls. If I had a dayvig, I'd shoot the person posting the most because whoever that is, they're scum.

http://www.epicmafia.com/home

Lots of action.

[popsofctown]

Yeah, it's so damn scummy that I lost internet and have decided to go with a strong read I've had for some time now.

Maybe you should wait for a case that somebody said they'd bring before trying to direct the next mislynch.

FoS

!~

Valid though that may be, you're way too defensive. Nothing in here was worth catching up on besides defending yourself? That's what you're rationing your internet out for?

[popsofctown]

replace out

[popsofctown]

It's a hotly debated point atm. Me and diddin think the treestump ability should be removed early so it doesn't stick around longer than we want it to and functionally kill 1-2 townies at LyLo.


My opponents thinks getting possibly one, maybe, maaaybe two confirmed innocents off the ability is worth that risk.

[popsofctown]

He's at L-2. You can't possibly be 99% sure without checking the votecount. L - 2 is probably good enough to claim close to deadline.

Edit: ninjaed by a votecount

A little behind guys, but I honestly don't care who eats this lynch. With theman I feel his comment was extremely out of place, and, really, whether he choose to defend it (as he has) or backpedal from it, I'd probably still see it as scummy. .... I think we should force those who aren't choosing between these two wagons to opine on today's lynch within the context of Power vs theman. Bunnylover and nhammen in particular are important pieces right now. My vote, frankly, may be influenced by how these other votes end up going.

This is such scummy posting. Feeling equally comfortable with two available lynches is legitimately possible for a townie, but I expect that position more from scum. Reminds me of my rather crappy SK play.

"My vote, frankly, may be influenced by how these other votes end up going."
The phrasing here makes this not at all sound like "I'll help whichever needs a hammer at deadline", which would be much more ok.

As a townie, this influence should never happen, unless you think Bunnylover and nhammen significantly better at mafia than you are. There's no reason for it except to be in a popular place to be be, which is a scummy desire.

They're REASONING can influence you, and perhaps that's what made this seem ok to let slip. But you said votes, you didn't say you'd like to hear what they had to say.


An all of that aside, even if a gameplan of proxying your vote to the most popular wagon is proper pro town play, there's no reason to warn us that "my vote may be influenced by how these other votes end up going". We'll find out if it causes a change when we find out if it causes a change. Reading that you might sheep on nhammen's and Bunnylovers decisions doesn't make me have to replan how I play the game. Your vote is where it is, and it's possible it can change. That's always the case.

Instead it seems defensive, a preemptive warning that when you hammer whoever bunnylover and nhammen would like for you, if they do manage to influence you, that you don't expect to be challenged about it because you announced it beforehand.

[popsofctown]

Hey actually, NO ONE VOTE POWERROX until we know what's going on with the secret voter. If it's scum controlled and truly has no culpability, scum can secret hammer an L-1 powerrox just before he gets to claim.

[popsofctown]

All powers in this game cycle except the scum nightkill.

His power is antitown, it's more useful for endgame quickhammering than it is for letting townies get more say in the lynch, since it's more about exposing who's scum than having enough voting power to take the player down.

Feel oh so free to hammer this guy.

[popsofctown]

Hm, well actually, i looked back at the OP to see if everything cycles, and realized that this

"Ability Cycling: At the end of each night you are required to select a different player for each ability to cycle your ability to. Meaning, for each ability you have you must choose a different person to pass the ability to at the end of the night."
is part of the townie role pm, not part of the rules. So it's a rule that applies to me because it's in my role pm, not because it's in the rules. The rules just say who I can and can't cycle to when I cycle.

It seems possible that a town power role, scum figurehead, or empowered SK could have no such clause, and just accumulate powers over time.

Anyhow. Lynch powerrox

[popsofctown]

If there aren't multiple scumteams this is over.
I had a power last night.

All powers in this game cycle except the scum nightkill.

His power is antitown, it's more useful for endgame quickhammering than it is for letting townies get more say in the lynch, since it's more about exposing who's scum than having enough voting power to take the player down.

Feel oh so free to hammer this guy.

TMH is the winner, but here is your runner up. Two posts after the claim, the first post being mine where I ask if it Cycles.

TMH has a very pro town role, and I agree that he probably kept it to buy himself some time. He is the lynch tomorrow.

This is my vote today:

vote popsofctown

At the time I posted that, I was pretty certain the ability was strictly antitown based on the logic I posted.

After reading MoI's arguments about why it can be, in fact, quite protown, I don't stand by that vote. Unfortunately, I read MoI's arguments post hammer.


I think it's very likely we have multiple scumteams. Whoever killed chkflip was gunning for scum, not town. If there's yet another vig power going on, it'd take so many scum to balance the game we would've lost by now. Well, not literally, but we would have such grim chances of victory at this point I'd rather assume that chkflip's death signifies a second scumteam or an SK.

Bunnylover seems to have lied, but it's such an illogical lie im not sure it signifies scum.

Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

.

@CKD: you should claim whether you have tree stump.

@TMH case: I don't understand why it was scummy to take diddin's daykill power.

@StrangerCoug: Pass the virus to me, I want to look at it. I can give it right back if you like. I can't explain why, sorry.

[popsofctown]

For the record, if someone gets the virus, and we somehow never see it again, that person is scum. The virus should be used as a lynch. Scum could pass it betwixt themselves perpetually and have it never go off until the day ends, (well that was my concern, and something I'd like to check when I get it)(I had another more secretive concern but I realized it doesn't matter. Oh well).

We need to pick someone scummy to give the virus to, and tell that person they'll eat it and like it. If they refuse we give the virus to someone else, and then lynch the person who refused to eat the virus, since that person would eat the virus if they realized refusing to do so would only cause us to waste a lynch on them. This process isn't nearly as good as a real daykill, unfortunately, but it's better than killing a lurker just-because.

Viralvote:DarlaBlueEyes

@Parama suicide: Let's not let Parama touch the virus. As confident as Parama is that he has the entire game read perfectly, I don't have that confidence in him and I doubt everyone else does.

In fact, it really might be safest if me and StrangerCoug throw it back and forth. I feel pretty good about his alignment since he didn't hide the potato, and regardless of his read on me he'll at least see that I'm willing to toss back the potato whenever he gives it to me. Even though we could hold someone accountable for the vanishing of the potato, I don't want to see a scum holding a cop ability or a scum who thinks he's just going to die anyhow to hide the potato, or pass the potato to a lurker.

Either of us can pass it to a the target once we have a consensus on who should die.

[popsofctown]

I'm not going to risk it.

I caused StrangerCoug to have the virus. The daykill is protown, as is pseudolynching with the virus so I selected the player I felt most likely to survive the night but who still had a town feel.

My original choice though, was MoI, with similar logic. I spent so much time combing through his posts during my decisionmaking process and so little with Coug's smaller opportunity that I mistakenly thought I had passed my ability to MoI, sending it to the void. When Coug claimed he had the ability, I was very confused, and I wanted to see if it was the same virus Parama started the game with. If it was, it implied a bus driver.

I felt really stupid when just a few minutes later I remembered considering StrangerCoug as an option, and then subsequently decided that posting volume is correlated with nightkillability and that I should target Coug instead of MoI.


@saying that explaining how to misuse the ability as scum is suspicious: What the heck? I had to give StrangerCoug a reason to pass back and forth with me, and since people like you exist and make me claim things that dont need claiming, justify my actions. That's why I revealed that info. Any scum who can't figure out that strategy on their own is braindead.


Further more, if I AM scum, already know the strategy! If I were scum I would have shared it last night with all my partners in case they get infected, since everyone suspected the virus might come back. The fact you pointed out antitown behavior but didn't realize that it doesn't make sense in any way for actually showing me to be scum makes me suspect you know that I'm town.

@CKD: if that ability doesn't turn out to be Tree Stump you're stupid for claiming.

[popsofctown]

I'm not going to risk it.

I caused StrangerCoug to have the virus. The daykill is protown, as is pseudolynching with the virus so I selected the player

I felt most likely to survive the night

but who still had a town feel.

My original choice though,

was MoI, with similar logic

.

These two do not line up, but nice try.

I didn't think MoI was a likely NK target at all. I was wrong. Let's move on.

I spent so much time combing through his posts during my decisionmaking process and so little with Coug's smaller opportunity that I mistakenly thought I had passed my ability to MoI, sending it to the void. When Coug claimed he had the ability, I was very confused, and I wanted to see if it was the same virus Parama started the game with. If it was, it implied a bus driver.

I felt really stupid when just a few minutes later I remembered considering StrangerCoug as an option, and then subsequently decided that posting volume is correlated with nightkillability and that I should target Coug instead of MoI.

Crazy how that memory getting jogged just at the right time works so nicely, huh?

I remarked upon how my original reason for asking to the virus had become voided when I remembered. I remembered before anyone started pressuring me.

(I had another more secretive concern but I realized it doesn't matter. Oh well).

I couldn't explain why it didn't matter without divulging all the information.

How about you get back to the part where you tell us why you got to cause StrangerCougar to get the virus? What did the mod tell you the reason was that you were picked for it?

You don't need to know that information. This is blatant, overt rolefishing. This info doesn't tell you anything about my alignment. It helps town more than scum to know exactly what roles are in the game, because Darla claimed doctor the scum now know to mindgame against the doctor.

@saying that explaining how to misuse the ability as scum is suspicious: What the heck? I had to give StrangerCoug a reason to pass back and forth with me, and since people like you exist and make me claim things that dont need claiming, justify my actions. That's why I revealed that info. Any scum who can't figure out that strategy on their own is braindead.

So it is okay to tell scum strategy because they probably aren't braindead. No, doesn't work that way.

Identify some players in this game you don't think are intelligent enough to figure out that optimum decision. Can you really identify enough to make a whole scumteam?

Further more, if I AM scum, already know the strategy! If I were scum I would have shared it last night with all my partners in case they get infected, since everyone suspected the virus might come back. The fact you pointed out antitown behavior but didn't realize that it doesn't make sense in any way for actually showing me to be scum makes me suspect you know that I'm town.

Ah, the OMGUS FOS. Yeah I've been riding you a while, figured this was coming.

Giving the scum pro scum ideas is bad for town and should never be done. You did it which implies you either didn't realize that, or you did but don't care. If you don't care, it probably means you are scum.

Did you ever think that the scum would not be able to hide the virus unless they started the day with the virus??? You could have made the suggestion to use the virus as a 2nd lynch without ever bringing up the back and forth between scum. If the bomb disappeared, or someone mysteriously died, we track the recipients.

ITT we misuse buzzwords.

I already told you, the strategy is obvious. And I didn't expect cause I said so to convince him to want to pass it back and forth rather than around.

I also already told you that if the potato gets passed to a lurking townie, that could be bad. It could also get passed to a scum player who has several protown powers inhand and decides to just suicide to destroy them for good.
It could get past to a player holding the treestump, who then hides the virus and laughs when we waste a lynch.
It could get passed to a townie who passes it to Parama. I don't put it past Parama to suicide.

All of these things could happen. Meanwhile passing it back and forth has almost no cost, except explaining a strategy anyone with a 7th grade education can figure out.

[popsofctown]

Getting a dead scum and being able to connect him to other players and prevent him from using any night actions and/or hoarding the stump, and destroying the stump, all

FAR

outweigh clearing an additional player.

Also, it seems like at least half of us has a power, so killing pretty much anyone has this drawback.

Quit acting indignant.

[popsofctown]

I am DEFINITELY voting bunnylover, though, as he claimed an ability he CANT have received from MoI. What, did MoI pass that along from the grave?
VOTE: : bunnylover

MoI = town, died before abilities are passed
bunnylover = claimed to have received an ability from a player who died
bunnylover = troll/scum

lynch lynch lynch

Nice catch. popsofctown, if you have not returned me the bomb, give it to Bunnylover.

VOTE: Bunnylover

I caught it to. And I think someone else caught it even earlier.

I want to hear a defense from Bunnylover before he's chosen for the virus, and I also want to make sure we have a consensus. (although I don't understand the reason Bunnylover would tell a lie, LaL has a tendency to hold true. I won't actively oppose Bunnylynch if his defense is poor).

And I think the virus is still on its way to you. Mod hasn't gotten to it I guess.

[popsofctown]

Let's juggle until we're sure Bunnylover is the lynch. Remember Day 1?

I don't know much about Bunnylover, but some players can get very frustrated when they have to defend themselves, I don't want townBunnylover just eating the virus if he gets frustrated.

Furthermore it's possible Bunnylover could die on accident, before we even hear a defense.

I don't like variables.

[popsofctown]

I really don't have a defense, but here was my line of thought when I posted.
I can not perform a night action, and I actually don't have to pass this ability to anyone else.
The reason I thought MoI passed his ability to me(the one I have right now) is because of two things:
1) I thought their was only 1 VT in this game (got confused with a game I recently joined which only has 1 VT role).
2) Since MoI died and it showed he possessed no abilities, I thought he passed his ability to me, since in my mind, after reading my new role pm, you could pass your VTness.
Bottom line is I forgot that the cycle is Abilities -> Kills -> Cycle Abilities.
I actually have one more reason I thought this, but this would be outting the power I had last night. The reason I haven't just outed out is because I feel if I had thought about it, my first line of thinking is wrong.

Frankly, what disturbs me most about this situation is that Pops points it out, no one gives knowledge to it, and then one other person points it out and several people go, "OMFG NICE CATCH."

DarlaBlueEyes, do you think we should give the virus to this gentleman?

Or should we send it to one of the people more popularly considered scummy, like Wrathchild?

[popsofctown]

Anyone who interferes with the process of using the virus as a daykill is promised a lynch, so that won't happen.

[popsofctown]

Those who want to viruskill Bunny: (diddin, StrangerCoug, Saint, DBE)
Wanted to, waiting on a defense: (Wrathchild)
With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.


This isn't a majority. Unlike a daykill we actually have to go through and lynch the person if they won't hold still and eat the virus, and if that lynch doesn't come together it's all a big mess.

After seeing Bunny's defense, I'm with LMP. There's nothing scummy here, it's a slip but it's not related to his alignment. There's no scum motivation to lie about this. Baye's theorem hasn't shown up to the meeting. He said He got MoI's power. Powers are cycled. He didn't say He got MoI's alignment. Even a goon who formerly had a power could get "cycled" the game's only slot that lacks a power (in Bunny's messed up view of the game), so it's not like he tried to prove himself town with this.

This reminds me of a player in a game I was in before where a player got confused about the setup, but appeared to have been caught in a lie, but one that had no scum motivation. I reread day 1 and found the most disingenuous person voting that person and caught scum. (no one would listen to me about it though). That was nonny's game, if RC remembers.

DBE's reaction just makes me want her head on a stick more.

Bunny might as well juggle with Coug or I until there is ACTUALLY ten people who would lynch her, in which case, yes, Bunny will be the virus eater.

[popsofctown]

ebwop:
five votes, add Lateralus22. Point out any other mistakes.

[popsofctown]

EBWOP add quadz, seven.

This is probably going to go through, because this is a lynch that it's easy for scum to join. "LAL vote:village idiot" doesn't leave a lot of room for divining someone's sincerity.

[popsofctown]

if you want to lynch Bunny because scum tend to pay less attention to the game, that's a valid, weak scumtell. Parama would have died ages ago if that was a strong thing though.

The quickhammer is also a legitimate reason to want Bunny dead. But I have to agree with Bunny's point that the town's opinion of him has fluctuated wildly with how lynchable he seemed. It makes me quite concerned. I make a post saying, "Bunny lied. That's scummy, but it's not a huge deal because there's no motivation for it".

Everyone reads my post, and understand that Bunny lied. None of them seem to think Bunny lying is a scummy thing.

Suddenly someone brings up that Bunny lied, and then starts a bandwagon and screams for fire and brimstone on his dishonest soul.

Everyone is seeing the same incident, the same argument, but feeling it's a scummy thing instead of a neutral thing. If it's a scummy thing, they would have posted when I, or earlier, Implosion, pointed it out, not when his lynch became more probable. Therefore, it would appear that there are people voting Bunny for a tell they don't find scummy, which means scum.

MoI passed his ability to me. It is clear what ability he had.

MoI died, he shouldn't have been able to pass anything on... right?

Post 880.

After that, Coug posts several times but says nothing about DBE.

I am DEFINITELY voting bunnylover, though, as he claimed an ability he CANT have received from MoI. What, did MoI pass that along from the grave?
VOTE: : bunnylover

MoI = town, died before abilities are passed
bunnylover = claimed to have received an ability from a player who died
bunnylover = troll/scum

lynch lynch lynch

Nice catch. popsofctown, if you have not returned me the bomb, give it to Bunnylover.

VOTE: Bunnylover

Until it seems a popular wagon. q21, implosion, and myself had all mentioned the lie. But Coug doesn't vote until the mention is accompanied by a vote. Whyever would that be?

Saint followed a similar pattern, not finding the incident worthy of mention until nhammen comments on it with much more aggressive, suspicious language than any previous commenter. It's less damning, but still concerning after a Bunnytown flip.

DBE, I don't know why I even bothered to check to make sure, of course didn't find Bunnylover's lie scummy until after the wagon picked up steam. She literally just parroted everyone else in the thread and voted after having no natural reaction to the lie herself.

I passed my ability on.
MoI passed his ability to me. It is clear what ability he had.

Hello mister liar! You do realize that MoI DIED, and so couldn't pass any ability. And did NOT HAVE any ability according to his death. So tell me, how you know you got an ability from MoI please.

This seems pretty significant and should demand explanation.

Wrathchild doesn't comment on the lie until someone suggests the lie is scummy, as well. Not as bad as Coug or DBE, but this is such a pattern.

Diddin posted after Implosion-pops-q21 comments, but before nhammen's aggressive comment with nothing to say on the matter, then wanted blood in his next post.
This is rather concerning, because Diddin claimed Bunnylover was his number two suspect before the slip was ever noticed, yet he failed to discover it himself or to consider it a scumtell until after nhammen put it in a harsh light.

[popsofctown]

You're voting SK-Bunny? Seriously?

SK are harder to catch than mafia, don't give you connections like mafia, and if a person has been ruled out of being mafia, then the odds that they are scum of any sort goes drastically down.

I wish I had another vote for you.

[popsofctown]

Everyone reads my post, and understand that Bunny lied. None of them seem to think Bunny lying is a scummy thing.

Suddenly someone brings up that Bunny lied, and then starts a bandwagon and screams for fire and brimstone on his dishonest soul.

Everyone is seeing the same incident, the same argument, but feeling it's a scummy thing instead of a neutral thing. If it's a scummy thing, they would have posted when I, or earlier, Implosion, pointed it out, not when his lynch became more probable. Therefore, it would appear that there are people voting Bunny for a tell they don't find scummy, which means scum.

MoI passed his ability to me. It is clear what ability he had.

MoI died, he shouldn't have been able to pass anything on... right?

Post 880.

After that, Coug posts several times but says nothing about DBE.

Ugh. EBWOP, says nothing about Bunny.

And yes, the bunnytown flip is hypathetical. scumEruci and townGlork are generally used for hypathetical terminology anyhow..

diddin made me lol

[popsofctown]

Wow, Bunny's right. I reread my virus pm, and I misunderstood it the first time. The virus could go off after ANY post.

I'm sorry I misunderstood it guys, it says "goes off after a predetermined number of posts" then later says "if you don't pass it within 75 posts, it will explode prematurely".

I just kinda read premature as, if you had a vial of virus, would you ever wish for it to explode? Any explosion seems premature. I read 75 posts as defining the "predetermined number of posts", but it's discussion of a second condition under which the potato explodes.

I think democracy isn't going to work anymore. At this point is just seems to have become logistically impossible. The best thing we can do at this point is pass it to the scummiest person. We also need to track the virus, Bunny needs to say who he passed it to.

It's going to have to be a transient daykill rather than a lynch. MoI is rejoicing in his grave.

[popsofctown]

Ninja'ed like Shen or Kennen. Not Akali, she sux.

[popsofctown]

Bunny, after you've pmed a new target but before the mod gets to it, if it explodes, who do you think dies?

If no one dies that sucks.

Saint pass to Darla and I'll love you forever.

[popsofctown]

Ninja'ed like Shen or Kennen. Not Akali, she sux.

:O No one can ninja like Kennen. She's a flipping ninja.

I'm all in favor of going back and forth with a chosen person who town think is scummiest.
Well the virus says that the count doesn't start until the person who has it has viewed the pm. So any other words, the person I pass it to will explode.

@Nhamman: Just pm'ed the mod. Will tell you what the mod says.

Kennen is a boy yordle..

Im not sure what you're saying about the virus, but to the best of my understanding, i think the person who has most recently read a "you got the potato" pm will explode if the timer goes off during a pass.

[popsofctown]

I think killing scum is considered a towntell. In general.

[popsofctown]

Im not sure what you're saying about the virus, but to the best of my understanding, i think the person who has most recently read a "you got the potato" pm will explode if the timer goes off during a pass.

Trying to figure out why you are even bringing this up if we 1) tell a person to hold the virus until they explode or 2) pass it between two scummy players. The only reason I can think of is that you are sending this out as a warning to a potential scummate. FOS.

Bunnylover, are you refusing to hold the bomb if the group thinks you are the best choice to blow up? Would it matter if we say you will be the dayvig if you do not?

good gosh, your confirmation bias is ridiculous.

The reason I want to know is because if two scummy people are passing it, and I find one of them scummier, imma spam the thread with posts when that guy's holding it.

[popsofctown]

PROTIP

: If you are wondering where a player is, go back and check their last post in the thread and/or the last time they visited the forums.

I have a lot to catchup on, but I don't mind. I gather we're doing a massclaim? I had no abilities yesterday and I have none today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2ub1r1HtKg#t=13s

[popsofctown]

Vi wants us to kill a townie I'm pretty confused
Yes i will double post a lot when darla is about to get the virus

[popsofctown]

triple post even

[popsofctown]

If bunny's theory is true the potato clock may still be at zero. That would suck. I hope he's wrong

[popsofctown]

I checked the rules. Nothing about spam. Just in case any of you, you know, feel the urge

[popsofctown]

Ok new idea to make this thread and my iso rereadable i will flag my killdarla spam with pound signs. But not this one its important it tells you that.

[popsofctown]

#########This reminds me of filibusters

[popsofctown]

########Should I have gone with the Satoko avatar? I was rather torn.

[popsofctown]

Vi's post there shows she hasn't been paying attention, since Bunnylover explained that the virus is different than we thought.

[popsofctown]

If virus actually can't explode unless someone reads their pm and then just sits there we might as well use it to remove either the stump or bus driver ability.

[popsofctown]

#####################I'm up to 123 posts. I wonder if I can get more posts than an entire game. Course I guess there have been 2 page mafia games.

[popsofctown]

Wow, DBE sent me the virus, in spite of never having indicated suspicion of me, iirc

Lynch this scum.

I sent the virus to someone who I thought was scummy, but if town, wouldn't send it right back to the best of my guessing. And he's holding an antitown role so there's that.

I was gonna be mysterious but that would jack the post count. I chose diddin

[popsofctown]

TMH is somewhat scummy, but he's holding a very protown role. I feel like half the stuff thrown at him is invalid, but the other half is there.

Either way, he's holding a protown role, diddin is holding an antitown role. And I thought TMH more likely to throw the plague back at me than diddin

[popsofctown]

I tried that "being productive" thing and people either yelled at me or ignored me. Fat lot of good that does.

There's not much I can tell you in that department. Try again or let someone else take your spot. We will not help you commit suicide.

##########
Assisted suicide, murder or mercy? The debate comes to mafiascum!

[popsofctown]

Also @ everyone that pushed for a lynch of Powerox with his ability, do you still think that was a pro-town move?

Has anyone answered this question? We need answers to this.

I answered it. I looked up my iso number for it but I forgot the second digit. It's in the 90s though. It might have been before or after the question was asked, but I like to transcend time whenever I get the chance.

How about you get back to the part where you tell us why you got to cause StrangerCougar to get the virus? What did the mod tell you the reason was that you were picked for it?

Pops’ answer (in 926): “You don't need to know that information. This is blatant, overt rolefishing. This info doesn't tell you anything about my alignment. It helps town more than scum to know exactly what roles are in the game, because Darla claimed doctor the scum now know to mindgame against the doctor.”
I’m… not sure how I feel about this. I’m assuming you meant to say “it helps scum more than town,” for one… I’m just not so sure that holding back this information is pro-town.

I'm not so sure revealing the information is pro-town. Since you've presented no reasoning whatsoever and I did, I'd say I have the high ground, Anakin.
And yes, the typo correction is correct.

Anyone who interferes with the process of using the virus as a daykill is promised a lynch, so that won't happen.

That doesn’t actually make sense. Just fyi.

Would discuss this but it's gone moot.

Darla is scum btw, might give an explanation later.

Please do that now.


Bunny why is your brain picking Saint over Darla?

[popsofctown]

Quadz I can't because it's ongoing.

then you can't reference it at all dude. Dont Talk About Ongoing Games

[popsofctown]

#####one of your scumdays is my birthday, guess who's

[popsofctown]

##################sassafrass
lol how the sam hill did my sassafrass spam post get ninjaed by RC's megapost? I seriously refreshed 2 seconds ago

[popsofctown]

It'd be lovely if two scummy players could pass the virus between them RC, but we'd have to convince them to do it. No one wants to die though. Even I didn't pass it to the player I find most scummy, (Darla of course) because I expected to get it right back if I did so.

You really seem to jump on the biggest wagon each time don't you? Anything original you would like to add to the table?

To be fair, pops asked her directly to respond to this issue.

IAI has to look away whenever I scumhunt to keep his confirmation tunnel intact, so he probably missed that [/jeer]

Anyway, I didn't ask her a leading question, so for the most part I think criticism of her answer is fair. I only brought up the topic, she didn't have to select any particular stand but chose to take a popular position with popular reasoning that was quite horrible.

[popsofctown]

Redcoyote, the virus has two timers.

There is the seventy five post timer. If you read your virus pm and don't send the virus off for 75 posts, the virus detonates and you die. If you read your virus pm and immediately pm back where you want to send the virus, you're safe from this, that is clear, you aren't liable for the seventy five post timer until you've read your pm.

Muh read his virus pm and tried to wait until the last possible moment to pass it, then got hit with the 75th post while he was in school.

The normal timer is much longer, and is unknown to anyone. It's also unknown whether this timer advances after someone has pmed the new target for the virus but before the mod gets to it. The timer could still be at 0, or it could be ready to explode any second

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#########with every

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##############post i make

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it'd be nice to know whether reading the pm affects the long timer, but i'm not sure the mod would answer a question like that

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#############I badgered him with pregame questions so now i have teh guilt

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if it has to tick to work, CKD is gonna have to be the one to bite the bullet. Or diddin. Whichever ability is more antitown. Prolly treestump

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#####guys i have carpal tunnel anyone know any homeopathic, herbal, urban legend, medical, or wiccan remedies?

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#####HEY MOD feel free to hollow out 1125 and put a votecount there. For serious reals, I don't mind. ESPECIALLY if you recommend me an effective remedy to my carpal tunnel

~Thanks for the offer, but it makes it easier if all the votecounts are in my ISO. As for a remedy, rub some dirt on it and walk it off.

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let's ritual sacrifice DBE.


It depends on the interpretation of the role pm whether the person has to read it. i lean towards they have to read it

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@the Bunnylover slip; IMO Bunny is town. I think the mistake is just thinking that the "void" of the VT PM is an ability and getting confused over that. I can see town doing this, even if I am the one who found the slip first.

@DBE/LMP 987-988; agreed with LMP 100%.

@IAI 991; Treestumping tmh tomorrow is a good idea. It could both get rid of the treestump and (bonus) assuming tmh is scum (which I am about 99% sure of) it can confirm curiouskarmadog's alignment; if he fails to treestump tmh, he's mafia. If the treestump dies with tmh, he's town. What do people think about this plan?

Agree, agree, and I like this plan. If tmh flips scum, it confirms diddin, ckd, and whoever tmh passes the vig to. If tmh flips town, it still gets rid of one of the most anti-town abilities in this game. Very nicely done. We can also get rid of the stealing ability if diddin passes it to tmh, but there are two questions related to this: A) does the stealing ability have to be passed to the person that you steal from, or did that only happen in this case? B) Do we want to give up on using the stealing ability for confirmation? I think for B, the answer is obviously yes. Stealing in the hands of scum can wreak havoc on all of our confirmation stuff, and it is better not to have this ability in the game.

You realize... the treestump... makes you unlynchable. You can't pass it to TMH and say "bwahaha, we shall lynch TMH and get rid of the tree stump!"

I don't know why people are acting like tmh has been cop investigated.

We should ritual sacrifice darla. Darla don't pass the virus.

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...really?

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ignore that

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atta girl

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obviously there is this big wifom dynamic about whether darla actually eats the virus, but i think getting a body on the floor is the only way we are going to get anywhere

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your play this game is the scummiest i've seen in a long, long time

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Nero cain, do you think DBE is town?

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of course not yours nero, darla's play is the scummy play

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##############RC do you want to share some words as we reenact the ancient mayan festivals and sacrifice darla so that the virus will devour us no more

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ITT RC expects humans to behave rationally

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if saint's interpretation of the virus pm were correct, the thing would have exploded by now. Someone has to hold it.

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you realize the pm always says 75, right? There's two timers.

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IAmInnocent, quit planning out the game based on people who have not flipped. You don't know the alignments of living player. Yes you can read people, you can try as best you can, but in the end most of the game is WIFOM, and it's difficult to ever read very far above random chances. Unless you have some kind of godlike scumhunting record and I've still not heard of it, you're wasting time when you discuss reads contingent on your other reads. I mean good gosh, when I take physics tests my teachers tell me reuse known information given in the problem rather than depend on derived information, and that's with MATH. This is PSYCHOLOGY. Geez laweez. I swear I facepalm every other post you make. Maybe something like 2/3. It's ridiculous. You just think things are easy when they're not, they're really not, they're very hard. The game is hard it's all hard. Go find me one scum, ok. One. Kill that scum. Convince me and enough other people he's scum and get him lynched, or go steal a dayvig power from someone cause you can do that in this game, or ask someone to PM you some of their old games because that seems to work in this game too. Then when that scum is dead, the mod will post a death scene. The death scene is like a cop investigation. Except you investigate living people. And the guy will be dead. And then when he's dead, we'll know he's scum. Then you can look at how what someone's alignment affects another. Cause you'll know what that alignment is. Because the mod will tell you. Until the mod tells you your guess is about as good as spelling a Wheel of Fortune sentence with only the F in "of" revealed. Which I mean if you think you're really good at it that's cool. It's just like William Tell I'll tell you you're good at it until you try to shoot an apple off my head with your skills or screw up my mafia game with your skills because this game is getting really screwed up with all this rabbit trail nonsense about what the tmh-xor-diddin scumteam will cycle, kill, want to vote, want to unvote, discuss in the QT, or who they'll ask to senior prom.
als;kjdfasjd;aldjka

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She never at any point intended to eat the virus.


Yes, IAmInnocent, I'm not sure that tmh is scum. You shouldn't be either. It's a duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh thing.

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Darla, Wrathchild, RedCoyote.

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Nothing. Everyone wants her dead

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I'm always serious. Name one time in this thread when I have not been dead serious.

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Nothing. You failed to follow instructions, and named several times I haven't been serious rather than one.


I didn't want to read the old game because I have all the rules I need to game the setup in this game's OP. I don't want to see how they gamed the setup in that (very, very different) mini, because I believe I can figure out the dominant strategy for this game without any help.

If I was a different mood when it came up I might've looked at it though, tbh.

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Why are you guys so sure we will have a daykill tomorrow?

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I badly want to see what brat-mode activated Redcoyote looks like

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show me show me show me!

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you know what? It's 3 am Eastern time, and DBE probably isn't on.


I think she's scum. The fact that she seems willing to eat the virus can't be counted for her benefit, it only means anything if she still doesn't pass it before that 75th post.


Stuff needs to start happening, absurdly long days are bad for the town. (was it Vi who always said that? someone always does).

I'm gonna pull the trigger and kill DBE by posting 52 times. The benefit of this is that a scumDarla who is actually waiting until about ~50 posts have passed before passing the virus dies this way, whereas if discussion progressed in a normal fashion, there would be a decision point.

This is gonna take a while, stupid time between posts limit

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####Whose

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####Eh i guess ill go line by line

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#Whose woods these are I think I know,

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His house is in the village though,

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He will not see me standing here,

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To see his woods fill up with snow.

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My little horse must think it queer,

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To stop without a farmhouse near,

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Between the woods and frozen lake,

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The darkest evening of the year.

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He gives his harness bells a shake,

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To ask if there is some mistake,

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The only other sound's the sweep,

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Of easy wind and downy flake.

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The woods are lovely, dark and deep,

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But I have promises to keep,

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And miles to go before I sleep,

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And miles to go before I sleep.

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That was "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" by Robert Frost

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Wait really?

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You know there's a function to see when people are on but i never figured it out

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I did it once on accident, never could replicate it

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Ive declared my intent to do something like this so might as well keep going

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Doe, a deer, a female deer

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Ray, a drop of golden sun

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Me, a name I call myself

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Far, a long long way to run

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I dont know the rest of that song its from the sound of music

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I havent seen DBE pop up on "users browsing this forum" so I think a silent pm isnt a risk atm

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But we'll see I guess

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In another thread?

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RC be protown and help me spam

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she might browse as invisible because she's scum

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What's another song I could sing?

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Imma sing my favorite song

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not for the lyrics though