Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[themanhimself]

So.... we're starting I guess?
VOTE: chkflip for stalking me

[themanhimself]

Hm... a thought occurs. Could we perhaps use bad abilities (like the treestump) to test possible mafia partners? Mafia can't pass to mafia of the same faction. So if suspicion arises that X and Y are mafia together, we could test the theory by passing the treestump to X and telling them to pass it to Y. If random person Z gets the treestump ability, then X and Y are mafia together (or Z is lying, which in the treestump's case, can be tested by having them vote someone). Notes: fails epically if mafia happen to have a bus driving ability.

Acutually, come to think of it, if there is an ability that affects the way abilities are passed (i.e. bus driving) it could be bad early and late on, and something like that is decently likely to be present considering how well it would fit with the mechanic.

let me say that MoI's confirmation strategy is the best town strategy for a game like this.

secondly, i wonder why you guys are all worried about mafia having a bus driver or roleblocking ability. abilities are passed each night, so even if they have such an ability one night, they won't have it again the next night. so in the case of the treestump: do what implosion suggested, but if a town player gets a bus driver ability and the stump wasn't passed to player Y, then simply rinse and repeat the next night.

MOI's strategy is great for helping to eliminate scumlinks but I think the combination of these two principles is just as powerful. The two together should be fairly useful.

lul allyourbasearebelongtous.

VOTE: themanhimself

OMGUS

!~

Having played whith chkflip several times, this and his second post both seem a little out of character and it raises suspicions.

Right now I really don't like popsofctown mostly because his comment about feeling 'strawmanned' when there exactly 0 people voting him or even implying that he's scummy. This seems a little paranoid to me when all people are doing are questioning his strategies.

VOTE: popsofctown

PS Sorry for the lurking, I was expecting really low activity being early on day one and a holiday so I didn't check for a day or two, won't happen again.

[themanhimself]

Sooooooooooo........ seems like a scum hit? Nice job parama

[themanhimself]

But the simplest one - Parama is town bombing muhscum - is the simplest one.

Yeah, the only evidence for Parama being scum if Muh flips scum would be complete WIFOM. It would be like assuming a player was the godfather because he turned up innocent in an investigation.

That said, now that Muh is (presumably) doomed, and still insisting that he's town, I'm inclined to believe him. That does make Parama seem more suspicious just for the virtue of being somewhat responsible for a town death. I say somewhat because Muh knew that he had a time limit and presumably had time to pass the potato (he posted after receiving it) but didn't, that makes Muh pretty much responsible for his own death the way I see it. I'm not getting much of a read off of Parama for this whole situation honestly. I mean, he had to pass the potato to someone to keep from getting bombed, protecting yourself is both a town and scum trait so I don't really see it advancing us at all.

@Parama, did your PM say whether or not the bomb going off would end the day?

[themanhimself]

I really don't like ethereal child talking about how Muh's death was Parama's fault and makes Parama scummy. Muh explicitly had the ability to give up the bomb but didn't. And what was Parama supposed to do? Just hold on to it and let it kill him? He had a limited amount of time to get rid of it and there wasn't enough time to develop a serious scumtell. That whole situation was a fairly null read to me and I think it's really suspicious of EC to bring it up. Seems to me like scum trying to find someone to peg for a mislynch.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ethereal Cookie

[themanhimself]

A lot of people have postulated that diddin might be scum, I'm not really one way or the other about it to be honest. However, if we have even the slightest notion that diddin might be scum we should probably wait for the daykill to pass to someone else tomorrow because if diddin is mafia then he's going to find ways to avoid killing his scumbuddies so our chance of getting anything useful out of this power is slim.

[themanhimself]

i've caught up, and i've caught scum
waiting on Vi before we come out with it

................why?

[themanhimself]

Parama is just as likely as anyone else to be town. I'm not sure if diddin is scum but I really don't trust him with the dayvig ability right now, I say we see who gets it tomorrow and go off of that. In fact, why don't we vote on who it should go to tomorrow and then if it doesn't go to that person then we have a good scumlink, if it does go to that person then we have it in the hands of someone that most people don't believe is scum. I think Saint is being a little bit over the top but I'll keep that on the back burner for now. I can't tell if wrathchild is just scummy or new but either way he's not being super-helpful. I say we VOTE: Implosion and see what happens. If he's telling the truth then it's null, if he's lying then we either lynched a lying townie or some scum so I don't see a losing scenario there.

[themanhimself]

Parama is just as likely as anyone else to be town.

You have nothing to say about one of the most noteworthy people in the game? None of his actions make him any townier or scummier? I think he's town right now, what's your opinion about him?

I think that if he's town then he's just about normal and if he's scum then he's good but not great. Nothing he's done has really addressed his innocence one way or the other to me. You jumping on me about this seems to me like scum trying to find something where there isn't anything so he can lead a mislynch.

In fact, why don't we vote on who it should go to tomorrow and then if it doesn't go to that person then we have a good scumlink, if it does go to that person then we have it in the hands of someone that most people don't believe is scum.

Good idea, especially when the scum kill that person and the dayvig winds up in the void.

This is actually your strategy from post #67, I just applied it to the dayvig role. It's a lot less reckless than pushing a scum to use his killing ability. Besides, this way it almost certainly ends up in town hands tomorrow. If diddin is scum as a lot of people believe then he can't pass it to a scumbuddy so it has to go to town. If diddin is town then it ends up in the hands of someone the town largely believes to be innocent.

I say we VOTE: Implosion and see what happens. If he's telling the truth then it's null

Losing the day's lynch ≠ null, especially when there's an easy way to confirm that I'm unlynchable today that I mentioned in my last post.

This is a complete logical fallacy. If you're lynched it wouldn't waste our lynch, just nothing would happen. The fact that you don't know how the mechanic works says to me that you may well have made it up. This also seems like someone who knows that their protection is imagined.

FoS: themanhimself

. I also don't like him saying "Sooooooooooo........ seems like a scum hit? Nice job parama." It seems

really

forced. He also appears to be avoiding taking stances on the main topics of discussion (namely diddin and Parama).

Not sure how I'm supposed to respond to this one seeing as how it's utterly subjective, but I guess

So.... we're starting I guess?
VOTE: chkflip for stalking me

Provides some evidence that I post in that particular idiom when I'm unsure of the current circumstances.

As for the second part, I've talked about diddin and his ability multiple times and have also strategized about it's potential use. Parama, I've said multiple times, reads null to me.

[themanhimself]

Oh for Christ's sake Quadz.

I do not know how many shots I have, but I know I have a limited amount of them.

Also I won't be on as much due to typical Christmas shit but you all should expect that.

I don't like the pressure that diddin is putting on the town here. It sounds like he's itching to use his dayvig power, which makes me wonder why. Diddin, do you see someone who's particularly scummy and whom you want to dayvig?

@implosion, In fact I did skip that post so I'll withdraw my case for an experimental lynch against you. My bad.

[themanhimself]

Has anyone else noticed and/or wondered about the significance of this?

//PASSWORD: ************ USERID: MS1775305

//Welcome to Experiment Set x01 MS1775305.

//We've developed an entirely new program MS1775305.

MS1775305 -

TheLonging

[

Online.

][/size]
[/i]

[themanhimself]

I get that, I'm just wondering if there's significance to the fact that TL was assigned the user code of someone in the flavor.

[themanhimself]

I do not like that you're still voting implosion, though, (essentially voting no lynch).

Forgot. UNVOTE: Implosion

[themanhimself]

you won't be able to give it away unless you are scum
scum will totally kill you if you are town to get rid of that ability

Unless there are protective roles, or trackers, or mafia don't shoot him just because of aforementioned worry. I say it's well worth a shot since implosion seems protown atm if anything.

I agree

[themanhimself]

@Saint
You willing to lynch me, despite never mentioning me before that post. I don't like that you just called me out like that without provocation and more impotently, without evidence. Why me specifically? How do you get that "[I'm] a great player"? There is practically no usable meta on me unless you've been through me active games, which would suggest you either already have suspicions or are basing your voting strategies based primarily on meta.

Also, I would like whoever you are to post without Vi's help on this one please.

who cares if he never mentioned you before?...he thought you did something scummy and said he had a vibe...we are still in day 1...all anyone really has are vibes....explain to me exactly what is scummy about this.

also, why do you not want Vi's input?

I actually agree with AntB here, Saint has pointed the finger at a ton of people but never AntB so this seems kinda sudden to me. I don't like when players just go off of anything suspicious they see on anyone without firmly sticking to case. It seems to me like throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks and then running with it which is essentially a mislynch strategy.

[themanhimself]

Alright, AntB was town so I checked who's voted him and it's been CKD and powerrox so I'm gonna read them both in ISO and post my thoughts.

[themanhimself]

/agreed
I thought it over more and I think this will give us some more info to go off of either way

[themanhimself]

I see day-vigging WC as a good move right now because he hasn't been helpful to town or contributed that much. His scumminess is debatable but if we day-vig and he flips town or flips scum, then we learn a lot from who was voting it, who wasn't and diddin's alignment. I don't see a lot to lose, but a lot to gain either way.

[themanhimself]

Re-read CKD and a null-read, leaning town, it's kind of just your basic mafia play. I'm doing powerrox right now.

[themanhimself]

Hrm, I was hoping for more out the powerrox read, he hasn't posted a lot yet so it's hard to nail down anything which could be scummy in and of itself. For now I'm going to say these two were probably just voting AntB for legitimate town reasons, it was just too early to get a solid read.

[themanhimself]

I don't see helghast as scum at all, I read and re-read his posts and I just don't see it. Lateralus however has given me a very weird vibe since he jumped in this game. Does anyone second that? I think a WC shot would give us a lot of information on someone who very well could be scum but I don't see it as necessary to a D1 scum lynch. I don't think I'd vote for a helghast shot but if you guys wanna discuss other candidates for day-vigging I'm sure I could be convinced. If we want to switch to a WC lynch though I'm not so sure that I would vote for that, seems like a waste of the effort to get a majority together when WC isnt obv-scum in my eyes, whereas a dayvig shot is much more easily decided.

[themanhimself]

I think we need to start organizing our votes a little bit and since I've already talked about the scum vibe I've gotten from EC I'm gonna go ahead and VOTE: EtherealCookie. That said I really don't like what Saint said to diddin, seems like scum trying to protect one of his buddies to me with the threat of retribution.

[themanhimself]

AntB,

Eruci

altered to

Neutral Survivor

, executed by The Judges Day 1.

---

Day One Continues.

oooh I see..."Name, Eruci altered to Survivor"...

I read it as "Name, Mod altered to Survivor".....

I think what happened here was he read it as 'The Mod altered AntB to Neutral Survivor' since Eruci is the mod name in this game. I'm more suspicious of pops' reaction in that situation.

[themanhimself]

In all reality though, Pop's original slip could also be a scum tell and should probably be worth keeping an eye on. Just during my initial read, ckd's jumped out at me more...

You know what, I think they both slipped, now that this has been brought to my attention. I'm happy with diddin shooting either, and both if he can today.

I could probably get behind that. I'm good with either one, I think pops is more likely scum right now though, see post @125 for my reasoning.

[themanhimself]

Man, I was gone for a day and we had about ten damn novels posted..... I hate to be the lazy player but could anyone (maybe the authors of the posts in question) do a little summarization?

[themanhimself]

Yeah, I agree with RC. Let's get the ball rolling on the day-vig. Looking over Lateralus' list (thanks, btw) I'm shockingly totally ok with vigging any of the top four right now. I assume we're still allowed to cast multiple votes for that so

vig:Helghast
vig:Wrathchild
vig:etherealcookie

The sooner we vig one of them, the sooner we can do some real analysis based on their flip and who was pushing their lynch and who wasn't. This day-vigging thing is really a god-send because it allows us to get a ton more analysis in on D1 and I think it hugely raises our chances of hitting scum today.

[themanhimself]

I realize I switched my stance on helghast but he really hasn't done much to pull himself up and to me that says either scum or useless townie and since it wouldn't be wasting a lynch I'd be alright with that. As far as WC goes I'm still seeing him mostly as a newb but quite possibly a scum newb. And again, if not he's a useless townie and we'll glean a lot of information from his death. EC and pops I've already called out so I won't summarize here.

[themanhimself]

I'm really wondering why diddin is procrastinating so much on this mod-kill, we've got a pretty solid consensus on like, 3 different people, what are you waiting for? I'm slightly worried that this is bussing on your part, trying to prevent having to kill some of your scumbuddies which is actually giving me a stronger read on the three in question. As for these wall-posts, guys, don't be afraid to summarize a little bit. I caved and re-read most of them, pretty much all of them could have been written in two paragraphs with about half the quotes and some of them we didn't even need at all. If the posts are getting so long that people are replacing out then we have a problem.

[themanhimself]

I don't see it being likely that diddin was responsible for poor muh's death but I guess it's a possibility. I mean, why kill muh? And with Parama's story on top of it I just don't know about that.

[themanhimself]

Hey guys, sorry I was a bit low on activity for the last few days, I can assure I'm fully in the game and am no longer busy. I'm going to read in ISO the people who were voting Helghast and get a better idea of what their play has been so far. Expect a significant post coming.

[themanhimself]

I hate to be the guy that says this, but we've had

three

townie deaths today..... maybe a no lynch wouldn't be such a bad idea?

[themanhimself]

I in no way understand the powerrox wagon, I just read him in ISO and without over-exaggerating I see him as extremely likely town. His last posts were all trying to understand why helghast was scummy and helghast flipped town.

[themanhimself]

So he's scum because he believed a townie was town?

[themanhimself]

Do you have a post-restriction for retarded jpegs making retarded points or is that just your normal vernacular?

[themanhimself]

My entire point was that I didn't see powerrox as that scummy, so here are my exact reasons why.

Joking aside, I'm confused with the plan of nominating someone scummy and passing all anti-town abilities to him. The scum will see our discussion, and know who we are passing it to. If they have the ability to do so, they can disrupt our plan of killing the player. Furthermore, if we're passing it to whoever seems the most scummy, and they are actually scum, and manage to survive, then we've given them a bunch of anti-town abilities that they'll be able to use. We could end up severely screwing ourselves over. Why would we want to do something like that?

True, scum controlling anti-town abilities later in the game won't help the town

Hm... a thought occurs. Could we perhaps use bad abilities (like the treestump) to test possible mafia partners? Mafia can't pass to mafia of the same faction. So if suspicion arises that X and Y are mafia together, we could test the theory by passing the treestump to X and telling them to pass it to Y. If random person Z gets the treestump ability, then X and Y are mafia together (or Z is lying, which in the treestump's case, can be tested by having them vote someone).

While this sounds good, what if X has other reasons to not pass the ability to Y?

This is all standard theory stuff, he's completely right on the first and second points. Passing anti-town abilities to scum is a bad idea and there are too many variables for implosion's plan to be effective.

I think he's implying more along the lines of a town-controlled "you pass it to Y or face the consequences".

And by angeling it that way, X gets a chance of saying why he didn't passed it to Y in his defense-speech

Reminder (Not sure if I've said this in this thread):

I'm V/LA 26-28 December. Will have chances of reading/posting, but less then average

This is the same point as the first post, there are too many variables to hold someone to that.

HEY MOD CAN YOU POST SO I KNOW WHETHER MUH PASSED HIS POTATO OR NOT?

...I don't think that the mod would reveal that kind of thing...

Yeah, it doesn't seem likely that the mod would reveal anything of that nature.

With muh flipping town

VOTE: Parama

I'm going to believe muh on that one

I think muh flipping town was a null-read and I think it's looking for a mislynch to push parama about it so this vote has some scum on it.

Trying to discern alignment from who has what role is pointless...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AntB

No it's not.
We don't want scum to control every single ability in this game

This is a little bit of vote-hopping but it was based on a misread as he explains in the following post:

So your telling me in a game where any alignment can get any ability, we can figure out someones alignment from their role.
Did you read/understand what I put or did you autopilot?

I first red that as "It doesn't matter which faction controls witch role"

Explaining a simple error, not really a tell either way.

For people that are saying me hammering someone will prove I'm the treestump, the voteless part really isn't up for discussion...
VOTE: AntB
VOTE: themanhimself
VOTE: diddin
Etc etc. None of those will appear on the vote board. The part that people are skeptical about is the unlynchable part. I mean, I'm willing to fakehammer someone, but I don't see what it'll accomplish.

You didn't really had to do that since we know that your RVS vote didn't count...

Also, hey Lateralus22!

This is actually a really good point, implosion is being a little bit paranoid here and giving us information we already had.

..., but can we find out what cycling power died with him? I feel like concealing that info gives more advantage to the scum faction than the town one, since they have more info about the available powers than we do.

^This^

Standard stuff, null read really. I guess he didn't get that lack of an ability being revealed means no ability.

/I could accept a WC daykill

All powers that are eliminated on deaths will be revealed as was done with muh316's death. An absence of mention of lost power, such as in AntB's case, signifies that they were not carrying any ability when they died.

Ok

Almost everyone said they were fine with a WC daykill so this is another null-read.

I re-read EC, I while I can't say him def-town yet, I have an overall town read on him.

I disagree here but I don't think either of us is emphatic about it so it's just a null-read to me.

powerrox please lay a vote down

[Bad joke]Shouldn't I hammer someone instead?[/Bad joke]

Then I'm going back to my VOTE: Parama that I had before AntB that got modkilled

Lateralus however has given me a very weird vibe since he jumped in this game. Does anyone second that?

No, not yet at least. I've played with him before and he played like this.

-~-~

Also, I don't see how Helgast is scummy

So goes back to Parama for the muh-kill under pressure from Lateralus, I don't like that move, has a little bit of scum on it. Then goes on to mention a meta for Lateralus to me which helps cross Lateralus off of my list. Unless they're scumbuddies bussing I don't see a lot there. More importantly he brings up his original Helghast doubt.

You mean you don't see it as in you don't agree with the case brought against him, or you don't see it as in the attacks aren't valid whatsoever?

I don't agree with the case brought against him.

@Mod:

Was UnofficialRulerOfEveryone supposed to be replaced?

Clarifies a point rather than dodging it, town points.

Post Count:

-LynchMePls: 2

-RedCoyote: 12
-MagnaOfIllusion: 11
-themanhimself: 21
-Lateralus22* (Thelonging): 24
-WrathChild: 23
-curiouskarmadog: 28
-Helghast: 11
-Powerrox93: 13
-quadz08: 19
-chkflip: 17
-Nero Cain: 11

-Narsis: 6
-Q21: 3

-diddin: 27
-popsofctown: 54
-SnakePlissken: 1
-I Am Innocent: 15
-StrangerCoug* (UnofficialRuler): 4
-Parama: 35
-Implosion: 16
-EtherealCookie: 14
-Saint/Vi: 27

What do you wanna achieve with doing that kind of list?

Calls out WC here on a valid point. This list goes back to lurker-hunting which really isn't a very helpful strategy to anyone but scum looking for a mislynch.

Literally every one of his posts after this is "Could someone state the actual case on Helghast?" which no one ever did and we ended up with a misvig. I don't see asking for a case to be distancing from a mislynch at all, he said he didn't see him as scummy but opened up the opportunity for someone to change his mind several times and no one did.

[themanhimself]

~Removed duplicate content by request. See Post # 683 for original contents.

[themanhimself]

Sorry about posting that massive wall at all, much less twice.

@mod: Could you remove one of those for readability please? It was really long and I don't be responsible for clogging up the page, I hate that.

Why does him wanting to understand why helghast was scummy and helghast flipping town make him extremely likely town? I find the flip actually makes him more likely scum, as though he already knew that Helghast was going to flip town, and wanted to get town-cred by opposing the vig (although not nearly effectively/strongly enough to actually stop it).

I think that entire argument is full of WIFOM and doesn't really prove a point one way or the other. I've already brought up this analogy but it likes saying a player is godfather because they came up innocent to a cop investigation. It could be one thing masquerading as another but it's more likely to just be that thing. Occam's razor.

themanhimself

Top three suspects and reasons plz.

1) Saint for jumping around a whole hell of a lot without doing anything worthwhile. He can't keep a vote or a suspicion in the same place and everything he says is contrived beyond reason. I also don't how like how he uses Vi, I know that she's part of his hydra but he seems to use her as an excuse for all sorts of weird behavior and I don't like the shadow it casts on reads of him.

2) Diddin for waiting so long to daykill and refusing to consider some people. That seems a lot like scum trying to protect the buddies that they know are under suspicion.

3) Popsofctown for jumping into every little thing and posting a whole lot without contributing one way or the other. Though (s)he is one of the most active posters, the posts themselves don't offer a lot and feel like someone intentionally skirting around the edges of the game.

[themanhimself]

Literally every one of his posts after this is "Could someone state the actual case on Helghast?" which no one ever did and we ended up with a misvig.

mhm.

I'm going to go back to my vote: Helghast. I think this is a good lynch for today, and I don't think any other wagon (sans possibly EC) is really gaining any steam. He starts off by asking Parama to expand on his ability. Frankly, it reads more defensive than anything else to me. If it's not defensive then I read it as somewhat of a silly question anyways. Later he kind of drops the Parama situation altogether, which was a weird transition for a player who had, until that point, been focused 100% on Parama's ability. The rest of his posts have mostly been one liners that have given us nothing to go on. He hasn't voted, he hasn't "FoS'd" anyone, and he hasn't really given us any decent reads at all. He's just drifting by unaccounted for. Bottom line, when I read Helghast's posts I don't see them as a townie who is genuinely trying to scumhunt.

Well hello. Here's the thing, you haven't presented any evidence at all, you've made little to no effort to find scum. You have however coasted along like a good little scum. Convince me you're town, show me who's scum instead of ignoring my question. k thnx.

Unvote;
Vote: Helghast

he even knew there was a case, never specified anything so I don't even know if he read it.

I don't agree with the case brought against him.

Both of these call out Helghast undoubtedly, but they aren't cases, they're vague comments on playstyle.

[themanhimself]

@themanhimself, how is a no lynch a good idea...explain.

Because we've had three townies die today already and D1 lynches almost always hit townies. I'm not voting for a no lynch because lynching has advantages, we could hit scum and even if we don't we get reads and lynches tell us something about the people who voted and the people who didn't. But I thought it worth floating the idea.

[themanhimself]

So is the main case people have against me the fact that I brought up a no lynch? Because I think that's being really over exaggerated. I brought it up as an idea that had pros and cons and I admitted as much. I honestly saw it as something to consider, I didn't push for it, I didn't vote for it nor did I try to distance myself from it. I said maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea and left it at that.

@Saint- I forgot I was voting at all, UNVOTE: nhammen, VOTE: Saint.

[themanhimself]

null read really... another null-read... it's just a null-read to me.

Heard of active lurking?

This is a fair point actually.

[themanhimself]

My mind has actually been changed on Powerrox.

I hate to be the guy that says this, but we've had

three

townie deaths today..... maybe a no lynch wouldn't be such a bad idea?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: themanhimself
No Lynch is only good when a game is at MyLo. And I would be

REEAALLYY

surprised if a large game where at MyLo already with three town deaths. Only scum would suggest No Lynch in non-MyLo-situations.

This newest post is just full of scum in my opinion. First off he completely misrepresents my no-lynch and then far over-exaggerates what he can read into it. But even scummier than that is the voting me at all. If he's town then he knows he needs to protect himself to win so he should know that people who defend him are being pro-town. This doesn't mean he should buddy up to me and never examine me again, but I should be reading pro-town to him. If he's scum, then he's just looking for the quickest way off of his own bandwagon possible and he doesn't care who defends him. Lastly, he completely ignores the case that has been brought against him, in favor of attacking me. That's scum trying to use misdirection and counter-accusations. When I was attacked I explained my reasoning thoroughly, whether or not you thought it was valid, it was at least well-explained.

null read really... another null-read... it's just a null-read to me.

Heard of active lurking?

I've already responded to this but in the interest of consolidating my case into a single post, I'll respond again. This is actually a really good point, a pattern I neglected to notice in reading power's iso. He's just playing everything close to his chest so as not to go one way or the other.

You mean you don't see it as in you don't agree with the case brought against him, or you don't see it as in the attacks aren't valid whatsoever?

I don't agree with the case brought against him.

@Mod:

Was UnofficialRulerOfEveryone supposed to be replaced?

-snip-

Literally every one of his posts after this is "Could someone state the actual case on Helghast?" which no one ever did and we ended up with a misvig. I don't see asking for a case to be distancing from a mislynch at all, he said he didn't see him as scummy but opened up the opportunity for someone to change his mind several times and no one did.

The nested quote from power kinda breaks the argument that he was looking for a case to be presented. He said that he didn't agree with the case, which means that in his mind a case was indeed presented. It, in fact, makes his later posts about wanting someone to put up a case contradictory and scummy.

And even without his actions around the vig, he's scummy. You, yourself admitted in the post I've quoted sections of above that power's Parama votes were scummy. What you don't seem to have done is look at those two votes together. His second Parama vote uses the first as justification. Justifying a vote with a previous, scummy vote compounds the scumminess hugely. He's scum, and you're either blind, or defending a buddy. Your no lynch comment supports the second opinion and I may yet be tempted to vote for you.

Again, a fair point. I think my problem when I read power's iso was not seeing his individual posts as a larger playstyle. Hence missing the active lurking and his contradiction is disagreeing with the case against helghast and then stating that there wasn't one. The parama vote was scummy and I've admitted that the whole time so I guess now I'm going to move saint and diddin down my list and VOTE: Powerrox93

[themanhimself]

How many times did we agree I was shooting people with a lot of votes (hint: not EC)? How many times did I say I didn't want someone else to claim and potentially out a stronger power role? It's like I'm talking to someone and whenever I make a point they stick their fingers in their ear and go LALALALALALA YOU'RE WRONG YOU'RE WRONG

How many time? Never. We never agreed that you were shooting people with alot of votes. You actually never mentioned votes when limiting who you wanted shot. Ever. The first time you mentioned that you weren't going to shoot anyone outside Helghast or WC (ISO 20) they were on 3 and 2 votes respectively, EC was on... also 2. When you said it again (ISO 29) the only change in that situation was that Helghast had gotten 1 more vote.

Also, totally agree with you here. Diddin is full of scum, unfortunately we're gonna want the dayvig ability so we can't lynch him today. I'm all for it tomorrow though.

[themanhimself]

Maybe this is just a difference in playstyles between us, SC. I see self-preservation as a null-read in general, but this type of self-preservation. If he was town then by protecting him I'm playing pro-town which should lend itself to at least not voting me next post. It's less about self-preservation and more about what we can deduce his actions to be if he is town and the fact that those hypothetical actions don't match what has occurred.

[themanhimself]

I start voting powerrox, saint attacks me.
Hello scumteam.

[themanhimself]

tmh: self-preservation is inherently scummy, unless he has a very powerful role. A townie (assuming it's not lylo or something) should understand that the town comes before himself, whereas for scum, that's not the case.

Again I disagree, because if a townie is about to be mislynched, that wastes a town lynch and lowers the town's odds by one out of how ever many townies there are in that game. The combination significantly reduces the town's chances of winning so self-preservation should be a townie instinct as well as a scum one. Regardless, defending a townie should be viewed as pro-town, so if he's not seeing it that way, then I don't think he's town. The argument ultimately doesn't really come down to self-preservation so that's a debate for the mafia theory forums.

[themanhimself]

Step 1) Read Powerrox's Iso
Step 2) Read themanhimself's Iso
Step 3) ?????
Step 4) Profit!

Step 0) Plagiarize a cracked.com article!

It's ok, I do it all the time.

[themanhimself]

Now it gets interesting. I'm going to read the mod in ISO to check the vote counts and see when the discrepancy first occurred.

[themanhimself]

:: VoteCount 1x12 ::

themanhimself (1) -

RedCoyote

:: VoteCount 1x13 ::

themanhimself (4) -

RedCoyote, StrangerCoug, Lateralus22

It's either StrangerCoug or Lateralus22.

[themanhimself]

Since SC brought it up I'm going to assume it's Lateralus22.

[themanhimself]

Lat is confirmed town

What the hell are you talking about?

Preview edit: It's stranger coug

[themanhimself]

If you wallpost I will kill you.

Well that would be a solid scum tell

[themanhimself]

omsacras

[themanhimself]

Ok, it's still strangercoug or lateralus22, because why would someone send their secret vote to me but not their real vote? I suppose they could be hedging their bets but that doesn't really make a lot of sense and it doesn't really get us anywhere either.

[themanhimself]

Also don't quite know what to think about pops replacing out when he was that close to a lynch...seems a bit fishy to me.

Fairly certain you misread that, I think pops was calling for parama to replace out

[themanhimself]

It was an anti-town ability regardless, scum having the power to secretly hammer under no accountability is the absolute last thing we need.

[themanhimself]

You're ruling out several extremely common and/or likely scenarios with that, I can think of at least three ways scum could get and use it with no accountability and I'm sure there are more.

[themanhimself]

No. Why would I give out ideas on how to do that? That's retarded. Besides, it doesn't matter, the ability is gone.

[themanhimself]

Hrm.... so I'm guessing there's an SK? Either that or a vig but if there's a vig the ability probably cycles so I don't know that it's much use trying to get anything from that.

Lat is confirmed town

Anyway, I want an explanation for this and until I get one VOTE: Parama.
Also, who has the hot potato for today? I've reason beyond our previous speculation to believe that it came back today but I'll get into that a little later.

[themanhimself]

something besides ISO

I LOL'd.

Yeah, that makes no sense. You might as well say "what's scummy about me besides the things I've posted?"

[themanhimself]

Seems like a good idea to me. I had the power to change the cycle of night choices for N1. For example, I could tell the mod to send diddin's power to someone else regardless of who diddin tried to send it to. I sent the day-vig ability to myself and the person who got my redirect power knows who they are probably figured out why I sent it to them. I'm all for using my power democratically

[themanhimself]

Why wouldn't I take it? Diddin could very well have decided to send it to scum or dumb town who would just vig whomever they felt like and hit someone wrong, this way I know it's in safe hands and that it can be used as a second lynch. However, I'm not gonna stall like diddin did. I have to wait for the virus to be activated in order to use so 48 hours after it's activated, I'm day-vigging whoever has the most votes. I'm only going to count one vote from each person and bolding helps. Nor am I going to narrow it down. Whoever has the most votes (excepting me of course) gets vigged.

[themanhimself]

I don't know whether diddin is scum and that argument could be used for any use of the abilty. It's an anti-town ability so I sent it to someone that I suspect to be scum so if I day-vig him or we lynch him it's two birds with one stone. I sent the day-vig ability to myself because I'm the only confirmed town that I know of. If voting for the ability is pointless then vote for me to use it however I want and if that's the majority at my deadline then that's what I'll do.

@WC- It varies

[themanhimself]

Wow parama. What are the odds the mod lied to us and parama is actually a jester?

[themanhimself]

Hm, I find the way you phrased that question and the fact that you asked it at all to be highly suspect....

FoS:Wrathchild

I can't use my power until the bomb goes off

[themanhimself]

Well the virus isn't guaranteed to go off today based on my understanding of it. If it doesn't then I don't get to use my day kill and we're down to one kill.

[themanhimself]

So we're going to pass bunny the virus and threaten to lynch her if she doesn't hold it?

[themanhimself]

EBWOP: in conclusion, I'd rather see a dead Wrath than a dead Bunny, for the time being
VOTE: WrathChild

So who do you support sending the virus to?

[themanhimself]

I got the virus and passed it to diddin, I think he's extremely scummy and I've brought it up before. One thing I want to mention is that from my interpretation of the redirector role PM, it's not a standard ability. I'm only bringing this up because if diddin survives and passes the ability, he'll probably try to pass it to scum to clear one or the other (assuming he's scum, which I am).

[themanhimself]

I agree with LMP. Darla's whole "I'll eat the virus for queen and country" bit is completely anti-town. If she's town then she should be scumhunting, not agreeing to die. Her consistent refusal to answer the simple question "top 3 scum picks and why" is further proof that she's done no scumhunting this game.

[themanhimself]

But you're not thinking about the general goal, to not get lynched. She's hoping that by acting all sacrificial she'll be spared, I'm pointing out that the sacrifice is only pro-town if she's lying anyway.

[themanhimself]

I agree with LMP. Darla's whole "I'll eat the virus for queen and country" bit is completely anti-town. If she's town then she should be scumhunting, not agreeing to die. Her consistent refusal to answer the simple question "top 3 scum picks and why" is further proof that she's done no scumhunting this game.

Have you answered my questions from the beginning of the day? You said to MOI that there were reasons to get rid of the double voter. Well it is out of the game now so I want to know said reasons.

Because it's likely that scum will get it at some point and when they do it could be disastrous to the town if a small enough number is needed for a lynch. Mafia being able to silently hammer with no accountability is incredibly dangerous. MoI argued that this couldn't happen because the person who had it would announce whom they passed it to and I argued that there were ways around this. I didn't want to elaborate at the time but I brought this up because my D1 ability is one of those ways. I had thought of a few other ways it could be done as well but I forget those now.

[themanhimself]

Darla, Wrathchild, RedCoyote.

And what are the reasonings? Darla's case has been made several times so if you want to skip that one I'm fine with that.

[themanhimself]

Let's just talk normally, if the virus activates then my daykill activates and if diddin goes down the DBE is next on my list. I don't see either of them getting out of this day alive.

[themanhimself]

Alright, just got a PM that my power is active, I think diddin is the best kill. I'll take votes for 24 hours. If you want me to go with my gut and bear the responsibility, vote my gut.

[themanhimself]

I think pops has been fairly helpful, though if he has the most votes in 24 hours I won't hesitate, the other three I can see easily.

[themanhimself]

I would most support diddin or parama. Getting rid of diddin means losing an anti-town ability and getting rid of parama means losing an anti-town player.

[themanhimself]

Mod: Could I request a vote count please?

[themanhimself]

Isn't it obvious to see why it isn't true? You're giving us a false dilemma, either did din is scum or I am when that's clearly not the case. If we're both town then you're setting up two consecutive mislynches. I think diddin is scum but if I'm wrong then you're trying to kill two townies with one stone. It's brilliant because one flipping town incriminates the other as scum so one mislynch automatically buys two. Very clever. VOTE: Wrathchild

[themanhimself]

C'mon guys, don't wuss out, I'm playing in like four games right now and this one is hands down my favorite. I don't like that sentiment coming from parama because it sounds to me like he's scum who knows that he's caught. Implosion and pops haven't been major suspects so I don't necessarily see that coming from them. I'll do the game a three fold favor right now

Daykill: Parama

1) He doesn't want to be here
2) This will give us new info to go off of
3) he's scum
Most people seem fine with him dying in some fashion or another anyway

[themanhimself]

Daykill: Parama

whoops

[themanhimself]

Yeah, I keep mixing those two up as well

[themanhimself]

I count somewhere around five people who wanted parama dead plus me, the game was stalling and he was being unhelpful so I took it into my own hands

[themanhimself]

You guys shoot whoever you want.

That wasn't even a hard read, at all.

I want blood.

[themanhimself]

in the QT I mentioned that I didn't understand the wagon while it was ongoing.

Wait a minute, what QT?

[themanhimself]

I don't know anything about hydras so I'm going to default to the town on this one, was that a scum slip or do hydras use QT's?

[themanhimself]

Ok. We should lynch TMH today because if he is scum, he could just pass the dayvig ability to the player his team is going to nightkill, sending it to "the void."

unvote, Vote: themanhimself

That's a self-defeating argument considering that you're in possession of an ability that utterly nullifies that point

[themanhimself]

You can direct it to anyone

[themanhimself]

Could either IAI pr bunny lover download their avatar and just invert the color in paint or photoshop or something? That would entirely solve the problem

[themanhimself]

When there are two scumteams

[themanhimself]

Agreed. If no one comes forward then we know we're dealing with either an SK or a second faction. If it is a vig that's another lynch for us.

[themanhimself]

I'd just as soon have you keep that to yourself, I frankly never liked MoI's plan, I don't think the mass claim thing helps town at all. Knowing the roles helps them control their flow

[themanhimself]

According to the PM, there are no restrictions. It's merely "person X's ability goes to person Y", I don't think I really have the right to PM the mod about it now but diddin can

[themanhimself]

I honestly don't see why you couldn't, implosion. I also doubt the Mod would tell me since he wouldn't tell me, a townie, what scum can or can't do.

Are you kidding me with this shit? That's the most blatant and ill-conceived attempt to cast yourself as innocent that I have ever seen. You sound like Brigid O'Shaughnessy from the Maltese Falcon. I can just picture you innocently glancing upwards and fluttering your eyebrows while you said that.

Besides:

@MOD – Please confirm that Mafia members are prohibited from trying to pass a Cycling Power to a player they will use their Factional kill on.

The only restriction any existing anti-town faction may have on their cycling abilities is that they may not pass a standard ability to any living partner that they may have.

Narsis is now under replacement, simply waiting for confirmation from the replacement.

Most of the V/LA that have been announced should be expiring today.

So I guess MoI was scum? Oh, wait....

[themanhimself]

*eyelashes

[themanhimself]

TMH, care to vote?

I've been voting for wrath child for a while.

Mod: is there an error in the vote count regarding my vote?

[themanhimself]

Your last vote was on Prama...he died. I doubt you can vote a dead player.

Join me in voting Quadz.

Not 100% sure why you would doubt me on this but whatever

Hrm.... so I'm guessing there's an SK? Either that or a vig but if there's a vig the ability probably cycles so I don't know that it's much use trying to get anything from that.

Lat is confirmed town

Anyway, I want an explanation for this and until I get one VOTE: Parama.
Also, who has the hot potato for today? I've reason beyond our previous speculation to believe that it came back today but I'll get into that a little later.

Isn't it obvious to see why it isn't true? You're giving us a false dilemma, either did din is scum or I am when that's clearly not the case. If we're both town then you're setting up two consecutive mislynches. I think diddin is scum but if I'm wrong then you're trying to kill two townies with one stone. It's brilliant because one flipping town incriminates the other as scum so one mislynch automatically buys two. Very clever. VOTE: Wrathchild

So, again,

@Mod: Is there a problem with the vote count?

[themanhimself]

The distancing is from players being on wagons that aren't going anywhere.

This is pretty scummy to me. The quadz wagon is taking off and it seems like you're trying to subtly deflate it

[themanhimself]

I asked the mod if I had more shots today and never got an answer so I'm wondering if I do

[themanhimself]

Well you can put him at L-1 if you want

[themanhimself]

Well he's at L-2 right now, nobody can hammer until he gets another vote

[themanhimself]

If you're so gung-ho saint, you can put him at L-1

[themanhimself]

This is about why you're trying so hard to get him lynched but won't even vote for him, major FoS

[themanhimself]

I don't see that as a particularly scummy thing to say

[themanhimself]

You're completely distracting from the point saint, why aren't you voting for the person you want to be lynched? There's nothing wrong with me not jumping on your bandwagon, there's something wrong with you not jumping on it

[themanhimself]

Are you dense? That's like telling me that you're using WIFOM, is this the guy we want leading our lynch?

[themanhimself]

VOTE: Saint
This is the insane and non-sensical behavior of scum pretending they're a troll so that they can get away with being scummy

[themanhimself]

Night 1 I passed diddin and Night 2 I passed to RC

[themanhimself]

IAI, could we get a confirmation vote from you? If the treestump got randomly sent to the void then we wouldn't really know who had it. I think it's unlikely that you're lying for several reasons, but never hurts to double check

[themanhimself]

IAI, could we get a confirmation vote from you? If the treestump got randomly sent to the void then we wouldn't really know who had it. I think it's unlikely that you're lying for several reasons, but never hurts to double check

Good Point.

vote: themanhimself

No need to make it personal

[themanhimself]

Well I'm assuming diddin probably tried to steal the day-vig for himself and so if he got killed it would have gone to the void

[themanhimself]

Well I'm assuming diddin probably tried to steal the day-vig for himself and so if he got killed it would have gone to the void

Is that why you guys killed him?

As for the void, I'll talk more about that once everyone chimes in.

I see what you did there

Seriously though, that's probably why he was killed

[themanhimself]

Well I'm assuming diddin probably tried to steal the day-vig for himself and so if he got killed it would have gone to the void

Is that why you guys killed him?

***

Roles that could determine a lack of scum teammates:

Treestump: Implosion -> Curiouskarmadog -> I Am Innocent (“Randomly” Sent?)
Day Vig: diddin -> themanhimself (stole the ability) -> RedCoyote (Void)

So are you postulating multi-ball here?

[themanhimself]

MagnaofIllusion,

Eruci

, shotgunned Day 1.

chkflip,

Eruci

, purged Day 1.

diddin,

Eruci

, shotgunned Night 2.

RedCoyote,

Daevori

, purged Night 2.

Shotgunning is for sure a scum team.

Though it is not confirmed that purging is town, it sure looks it from the two choices of people that were killed so far.

Agree with Implosion that we likely have one scum team.

I don't see how this fits in with the posts I just quoted.

[themanhimself]

Well you put CKD's claim in quotes and ended it with a question mark but mine was punctuation free so I assumed that meant you didn't believe him but did believe me.

I would definitely not hold the virus, townies have to protect themselves, it's a numbers game, the fewer townies the lower odds of winning. I'm not going to volunteer to kill one because there's a majority, that's not playing to my win-con as far as I'm concerned

[themanhimself]

I thought it was obvious. Yes, I had a role but did not pass it on. However, I did kill RedCoyote, who scored high in the scumputer.

Ooooh! We found the vig and/or SK, VOTE: DrippingGoofball because there's no evidence that you're a vig

[themanhimself]

So why are you not voting?

Nero Cain 30 + 40 + 30 = 100
TMH 30 + 40 + 30 = 100
q21 30 + 20 + 30 = 80
pops 30 + 20 + 30 = 80


What's your hurry?

I don't quite understand

[themanhimself]

HEY LOOK!!! I'm touched guys, I get to be the scum attempted mislynch for today.

TMH
Saint
q21
CKD
DGB
Wrath

Nero Cain is so awesome he can postulate a 7-man scumteam in a 24 player game