PYP 4: New Homes, Same Problems (Day 5)

[Benmage]

IMPORTANT SURVEY:

Andrius, Rabies, Vollkan, Le Cupcake, InHimshallibe, slowsilver, LlamaFluff, Benmage, Guderian, Sajin, xvart, chkflip, Zodiark13

:

You all haven't played in a PYP game as far as I remember. These questions are for you. You are being judged based on your answers.

1)

Did you fully understand how the draft system operated?

2)

Why did you choose the numbers you chose?

3)

Do you think it is likelier that scum chose unique X numbers, or doubled up on at least one of their choices?

I have played in PYP #1.

[Benmage]

Vote Andrius

Kitoari's replacement. This is a real vote.

[Benmage]

Phone msging ftl.

I pretty much agree with everything hoopla said about the slow wagon. Although once back on a computer ill look at those who wagoned it. Oh, like gandalf. I didn't wanna come out and say I felt the wagon was baseless and derail it because I wanted to see what info if any could've been attained from it for I didn't think slow was gonna be lynched.

That said I like the logic behind the top picks being scum organized, I actually didn't think scum were able to coordinate their picks and I wonder if it was different in PYP1 or if its just been too long.

Anywhose I agree about the increased likelyhood of a scum in the top 4. I like hooplas reasoning to exclude chk. I'd also want to rule out Guideran. I while I see scum going for top picks I don't see them desiring cop. And going 1,1 seems like and all or nothing move.

So than I am very happy to

unvote vote gandalf

Also based on what hooplas saying I think it very likely to have scum in the bottom 2 neighbors and like my initial andrius vote even more. With 1 scum in the top 4 and 2 in the bottom 2, that's two left from the middle. I don't see lynching at those bottom 2 after the top 4 as a negative strategy.

[Benmage]

Gobble gobble motherfucker.

[Benmage]

There's a difference between picking 1/2 and 12/13,

I agree wiith this. 1-2 seems more like town numbers imo, especially 1. I don't think back to back numbers is telling at all. 5,6,7,8,9 could very well be scum picks.

FOS SCUMBUDDY, VOTE TOWN?

That implies you already know who the scum are. Trying to set me up for something or just tinfoiling?

No it doesn't. I think Jacks just throwingout a very standard scum playstyle.

Still want more people to acknowledge my action submission policy.

Noone cares. Plus when people first read this they probaly think:
I'm a VT i don't need to worry about this.

I'm a PR, wtf am I claiming I am a PR by claiming I submitted my night actions.

You never said for VT's to simply say "submitted".

You fail.

I like xvarts point against Llama in post 154.

Anywhose I agree about the increased likelyhood of a scum in the top 4. I like hooplas reasoning to exclude chk. I'd also want to rule out Guideran. I while I see scum going for top picks I don't see them desiring cop. And going 1,1 seems like and all or nothing move.

Why is cop the number one pick across the board? Wouldn't scum want vig? Role cop? And maybe scum could want cop to prevent town from having it.

Cop is without question the number 1 pick for spot 1. Every night you can basically confirm town, and have the best chance at catching scum. Which is better than vigging. Because vigging someone whose scummy but town is worse than getting a confirmation on them.

Moreover you’re going to be the #1 target for scum. So also our weak doctors target for night protections. So scum have to be aiming for our weak doctor all the while you’re confirming people.

Sure scum could go for this. And I drink a lot of wine when I look at G-man and what he’s done/said/is. Scum could go for it, and go for broke, only to nullify the single most powerful town role. But they’d have to be pretending to be a cop, giving a few results on whomever..Maybe even Nking a townie they confirmed or something, but they’d have to eventually give over a scum. Either bussing, or lying themselves. Moreover when/if the weak doctor was ever NK’d the cop would have to die the next night. And if they didn’t they’d be lynch fodder. Therefore (wine) sacrificing a weak scum to knock out the most powerful town role, doesn’t appear to be a bad idea. That is G-man, and I say this only because of his join-date.

Let’s just say if he didn’t pick cop, I’d like to lynch him right now relentlessly.

Guderian

did you pick Cop?

Sniped: Who's Ben?

Let’s just win this.

Burn witch. And yes, gandalf is scum as well for all intents and purposes but he's not the shiny #1 top pick of scum.

If you think Gandalf is scum, are you able to compromise to his lynch first?

[Benmage]

Unvote;
Vote: Benmage

I love things like this. (sarcasm).

I'm going to ask why me? (obv)

You're going to (hopefully) answer why.

Why didn't you just save us all some time and state why in the initial vote?

Anywhose....Why?

[Benmage]

And Ben.. where to start? Your entire last post screams scummy to me, first you're blatantly trying to fish for roles, for a starter, Gude's.

Trying to fish? No. I am not trying, I am telling.

But on top of those (which has to be one or the other), if Gude ISN'T the cop, you're obviously hoping to out whoever IS said cop.

I am not asking for a CC, and noone would CC. The only one to pick cop would be near the bottom to double over any PRs/scummers higher up.

Anyone in the top area knows not to take cop because #1 should've picked cop as it is the most beneficial role to the town.

So, you're either scum and hopping onto the Gudetown wagon (in which case trying to find out his role and/or find the cop).

If I was scum I'd simply choo choo on easily (or I'd just find out when he flipped)

or you're scum WITH Gude, and you're trying to lead the weak doctor into danger tonight and find out who, if anyone, is the cop (for those new, PYP3 had scum searching for a cop all game and there wasn't one. It would benefit scum hugely to find out if there is, or isn't, a cop early on).

If the weak doc were to die tonight I'd be advocating Gude's lynch. So am I bussing now? (I didn't read PYP3, so I don't know if this is relevant at all. But different people. Different roles?...Different game.)

[Benmage]

If you had paid attention to what I had already said you would know there wasn't a cop in PYP3 at all even prior to what you posted.

And you even admit that you're not even asking for Gude's claim, you're demanding it.

What if the person who picked number 1 hates being a cop? They should pick it to satisfy you? No, you pick the role you feel will benefit the town most through being used by you, or the role you play best with, not some role that you might not enjoy using, or be useless with, or feel isn't as useful (what with the inverter), so no, your entire "I demand Gude claim" stuff is bollocks.

SATISFY ME!??!?!? ME... Who gives a fuck about me. It's the single best town role. You're only fucking over the town. You don't not pick the best town role. Noone else is aiming for cop because #1 should've picked cop. Therefore #1 not picking cop fucks up the roles below as well.

Not picking 1 as cop is the single most anti-town thing therefore if Gude didn't pick cop He committed the most anti-town thing and deserves to be hung.

I'm basically asking a VT in a mountainous game to claim VT. What I am asking of Gude is to confirm the obvious. He should be a cop, and therefore I will not be voting him on that premise.

And yes, you would still be bussing because if you knew the weak doc had targetted Gude (and how the hell would you know the weak doc went there anyway?

I wouldn't know, I would assume. It is the most logical choice for the weak doctor, to protect the most powerful town role,dee dee dee.

I'm sure scum were 1 and 2 in PYP3... and I was in a mason pair WITH the weak doc, you don't use that role to protect, you use it to clear people, so whoever the weak doc is, take it as read that you should be clearing people, not trying to protect people. Thus the weak doc may not have gone for number 1 anyway, I sure as hell wouldn't).

Well we don't have masons. So yeah, lol, without reading PYP3 you've already crushed your own argument. Different game. Different roles. A weak doc whose also a mason would rock out as a confirmation/protective role. But thats because the mason partner is there to claim the weak docs results upon death. No mason partner here....no clue who weak doc protected and wound up dead....gg...weak doc protects cop. Period.

Where was I? Oh yeah, if you knew the weak doc had targetted Gude then evidently you would bus him for pro-town points and you've just offed a strong town investigative/protection role as trade. It's a nice trade for scum really, the less people who can confirm people as town the better off the scum is.

Weak doc vs 1 scum. On a 5 man scum team. I don't see any town role not worth a 1-1 trade.

[Benmage]

YOU say the cop is the most powerful role for town, I say it isn't

Logic isn't a strong attribute for everyone.

I say it depends on the player who HAS the role as much as WHAT the role is.

Cop is brainless and gives the best results. I am very good at this game and reading people. But some people, who are town. Suck and play terribly scummy. A vig kills them because they are scummy. Good... but bad because they flipped town. A cop, confirms them one way or the other.

Even if you don't USE the vig, preventing scum doing so is a damned site more useful than a cop that might well get waffled night 1.

You think if the scums not the vig that its gonna live very long?

As for the weak doc... auto-protect the first draw? Fucking stupid play.

Bes play?...Yep.

The most stupid play possible for a weak doc in fact. The chance of one of the unique numbered players being scum is HIGH in this game. The chance of more than one is as well, but only slightly less so. For the weak doc to target someone who could possibly be scum is stupid, because if Gude is scum we lose our weak doc and our only 100% sane investigator (the cop's sane, but can be thrown by the inverter), great move dead doc.

The weak doc dies N1, we kill the #1 pick. Period. And get a 1-1 trade. Thats good.

No, the weak doc shouldn't be targetting the top player. Sure, if we have a cop, protect them, but unless said cop is outed they can't do that, and if said cop reveals themself and we don't even have a weak doc, then bye bye cop too.

For those of us who are smarter than rocks, said cop is already outted.

Basically your plan revolves around making assumptions about things based on your personal preference, as opposed to what is actually logical and useful in this specific game, and in these games the cop is not, and should not, be the number 1 pick unless you wish to give scum extra kills.

Well then chief.

Let's break down your plan:

Either way the #1 pick has an awesome Town PR.

True or False?

Either way scum are going to want to NK awesome town PR.

True or False?

Either way the weak doc should be protecting said awesome town PR, the #1 pick.

True or False?

Either way weak doc dies N1 we lynch #1 pick.

True or False?

[Benmage]

Geeze busy weekend, you guys need to chill a little.

[Benmage]

Can you post the major points of your BM case? (3 is fine, I don't want to see a wall tbh.)

He's lurking.

[Benmage]

Benmage can wait. Hooplascum seems more prominent.

UNVOTE: Benmage
VOTE: Hoopla

Hooplas scum now .

Tomorrow I'll be able to dig in here. I'll have some free time and set aside some time for this game, since I've been quite busy IRL. And even though I've been skimming a long somewhat I haven't been able to put the 10+ pages i'm behind into concrete material.

[Benmage]

Benmage and Guderian were already known scum.

[Benmage]

Okay Okay, I am pausing my denser read through/commentary on top of pg 15. I’ll get crackin some more tomorrow. Totally passed out after work today. Anywhose here’s what I got. I tried not to comment on things that I believed may have been covered or mention later in the thread (as I have been skimming along…ish) But, if there’s anything major I missed point it out. Again only on pg 15…still rolling:

Ben, the point of this game is to choose role you would LIKE, thats the point of a draft with multiple roles. What role did you pick?

Bull fucking shit.

The point of this game is to PLAY TO WIN. Not Play to Have Fun. You wanna have fun go to a different site. What if my interpretation of "fun" was screwing over my team as badly as I could, and got a good jolly out of that. I'd be having fun. Doing what I "LIKE" but I would not be following the rules of this site. ON this Site you PTW. You do not pick the role you LIKE. You pick the most optimal role to WIN. If you did not pick cop I will support your death.

This is another reason scum might leave people at the top alive... not just WIFOM, but we will wind up lynching them most likely.

I disagree. Scum biggest fear would, imo, be the power PRs at the top.

There is no weak doc.

The weak doc is scum.

Discuss.

Then the top slots better start being NK'd.

Guderian

did you pick Cop?

The above makes is just stupid.

First, it isn't at all true that cop would be the number one choice for town.

Second, a scum cop can cause massive confusion (through declaring innocent investigations) and generate a mislynch for scum (by claiming a guilty). In short, while a scum cop can't survive long-term, it is a viable choice for scum.

@llamafluff

Do you have any meta evidence for your professed preference for vanilla?

What is a better #1 pick?

Agreed. It would cause confusion. But eventually it would spell utter doom. And if/when the doc died and the #1spot/cop lived we guarantee their false alignment and lynch them.

2 I just chose two numbers around the midway point, got around the area in the draft I wanted actually

You

wanted

to be towards the bottom?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: llama

xvart.

hahahahahahahahaha

You're scum

VOTE: xvart

I think it's not helpful in the slightest to discuss number selections at the moment; we should be scumhunting much more so in the manner of Fate, using Hoopla analysis to lock a case down, and not using the number analysis to

begin

a case.

Scumhunting is the process to determine the alignment of a player (hopefully eking out scum) - as we cannot do this with anywhere near 100% accuracy, we do our best to derive tells to improve on the starting odds of lynching randomly. When you lose the glamorous title of scumhunting, it essentially boils down to improving your odds of lynching scum via the way of mostly subjective tells. Looking at neighbourhoods is a form of improving the likelihood of lynching scum, if done correctly.

UGHHHH PUKE...This reeks of trying to be the professor of mafia. Explaining everything. Taking charge. Trying to sound like "oh wow, he knows what he's talking about he must be town". I've seen Adel and Percy try to act like this.

Do you really think Inhim needed to be told how scum hunting works/ what it is?

Town read on Hoopla Plummeting.

Seriously, we have four players in this game with unique numbers. It's unfathomable to me that these are all town players from a sheer probabilistic standpoint, due to scum having such better chances of landing a unique number. The wagons on other players lower in the draft are a waste of time (at least on D1 and maybe D2).

This point I agree with. Although the way you phrase it...makes me ponder. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? "Seriously"<<?

I'm frustrated that I am preemptively being linked so thoroughly to Guderian when I have never actively opposed his lynch.

Hmmm.... It'll be interesting to see what Gude flips.

Pome, gandalf and slow are bad players who will always look scummy regardless of whatever they do.
You're town.
Understand these things.
Obey.

That's stupid reasoning - how do you catch them as scum, then?

vig shots
investigative reports
scumslips

lynching them before lylo

Policy lynches are best done early. Village idiots in lylo spells disaster.

Bad players are almost always far easier to read than good players. Lamenting the (false) fact they always look scummy doesn't solve anything at all, because it discourages indepth anaysis of their motives, which are often more obvious.

I disagree 100% with this. Bad players/new players/VI's are difficult for me to decipher their alignment because they continuously perform scummy actions but they do so regardless of alignment. They are easy mislynches. I usually prefer to put them on the backburner or policy lynch them if I have no better direction.

I much prefer a talented player who I can properly question, discuss with and analyze from a logical perspective. This way finding inaccuracies, unsound logic, poor play/points can be much more significant.

Additional:
BM is being retarded. Shockawe..

Explain this buddy.

I don't know which game you joined the wahmbulance on me. But this seems like a standard move for you. I feel like you didn't like my move on Fate in CEB and therefore are always viewing me in a tainted image.

Where am I being retarded?

Like Ben is scum. He is not being "retarded" like Parama is saying. He is not just being aggressive. He is scum. He 100% assumes that a role is town,

that according to his theory of what a winning combination should be, is the second role that should be chosen, and he sure isnt second on the list as far as I see.

Now scum should know if what alignment that role is... they should indeed.

I don't understand the underlined.

Ben is suggesting sub-par ideas to deal with a role that also makes a lot of assumptions about alignments.

1.

Also he is suggesting a policy lynch of a slot if they did not pick cop, if you look at him, he is setting up to turn that into his core arguemnt depending on what happens next.

2.

I think Guardian NOT-cop is more of a town tell since scum want that gone just as much if not more then town. Ben is hoping to tack on a null if even that tell to a wagon in hopes of powering through the lynch at this point

That and his first vote is ultra-scummy.

1. So?
2. Couldn't disagree more. Why would town want the cop gone?

My first vote was solid. Nor did I waste time with a rvs. And my belief on that slot remains true.

Benmage
xvart
Inhim
lurker
loud player

Interesting.

Can anyone provide me a game with benmage as scum? His play is not what I am used to when not fighting with fate.

I was scum in Battle Mage Mafia

Just Guderian and Gandalf should claim. We only have one noose for today. No point exposing anything more than we need to.

QFT

Everyone's defense of him is N00B or VI, but this PYP-Virgin comes in, understands how the draft works

so freakin well

he does game theory, aces it-wait no he CHANGES his numbers first-then wins the draft.

And THEN, he speculates on WHAT Y NUMBERS SCUM WOULD PICK? I mean, how often did that even COME up in the other games? Maybe halfway through D1 of PYPIII? There's NO WAY he thought of it without scum QT promptings.

These are good points.

Either gandalf or ben need to die today.

Why?

Why do

you

think gandalf and Ben are scummy?

Going for Gunsmith in the top 3 seems kind of stupid, then for it to be picked twice in the top 4 is even more stupid.

I couldn't agree more.

I'm a VT.

Is it a good idea for me to claim what my predecessor tried for

, since scum could figure out that one of the people above me must have that role?

I like investigative roles, but figured cop would already be taken.

UNVOTE:
UNVOTE: gandalf

xvart.

!!! How is this guy not lynched yet!!! Why must I cipher through 10 more pages!

My reads in summary:
Scum:
Guderian
Benmage

You don't even mention me in your catch-up post but I am 2nd on your list? Catering to others?

Benmage makes my brain ache. Actively ache.

Thats all you add on the bottom of pg 14..my last post was pg 7?8?

[Benmage]

So Benmage.. still ignoring the fact that so far out of three games the only time cop was picked in the number 1 slot was by scum? Llamafluff gave you the information earlier, but it would appear you would rather stare at the facts and say they're wrong. That's like looking out of the window at a ton of snow and saying it's a warm day.

Actually I said I’m working on my catch up and are on pg 15…but whatever I’ll murder llama’s dreadful statements when I get there.

Bottom line you should note. Different games. Different players. Different roles.
PYP1 was basically a trial run anyways. Noone had a clue what was going on. Plus there was 2 scum teams, a framer role, and a SK inv immune.
This game has different roles. The vig isn’t an every night vig. Clearly underpowered when compared to a cop.

[Benmage]

Crap, that makes it pretty damn obvious that Guderian is town.

unvote, vote: Benmage

I'm gonna sheep llama here and I hope llama sheeps back.

baaaa

How does that at all incriminate me?

I like llama's unvote but doesn't vote me, especially after Parama's vote. Cause her case is smoke and mirrors, crap and nonexistent.

[Benmage]

Because Llama is picking between 2 good lynches and trying to decide which is better.

So go ahead boss.

Bullet for me the excellent case on me that totally incriminates me.

[Benmage]

PYP3 wasn't a vig every night either, they were the same as they are here, one even night, one odd night.

It was still picked over the cop role.

Thus you are still spouting utter bollocks.

As for Parama's post:

Le Cupcake - town
Benmage - scum
slowsilver - town
inHimshallibe - town
Andrius - town

^Prana, because the top player was scum in that game.

BURN. And I didn't even have to look at the game. Stop fucking talking to me Prana. You are a waste.

Where is the link to PYP3 anyways?

Again. Different Players. Different roles. Someone said mason/weak doc last game or something. That combo would rock. But we don't have that here.

So this is a different game.

I want an answer here:

*****************Does anyone think theres a role better than cop to pick from?(Note vig is every other night).

[Benmage]

That's anti-town.

^This. I will not be answering the 5 player list until I'm caught up.

Feel free to try and lynch me.

[Benmage]

I wouldn't choose cop for the simple fact that scum would assume that I had picked cop.

So...they'd be killing you regardless thinking you were the cop.

Then you'd have everyone picking after you screwing up getting VTs thinking you were cop.

But I'd like to hear from people who I don't consider a VI.

[Benmage]

As long as you do it at some point in the near future, I won't lynch you for it.

I will however gladly lynch you for other reasons.

Which I've asked you to bullet/restate.

[Benmage]

And gandalf who would you pick from #1 spot.

[Benmage]

BURN. And I didn't even have to look at the game. Stop fucking talking to me Prana. You are a waste.

You're still talking out of your anus jackass.

Your number one pick IS NOT EVERYONE ELSES. Get that through your thick skull for fucks sake. "I'm" a waste... yeah, because I'm the tit who's so high and fucking mighty that he believes that his opinion of what to pick as number 1 is the right one.

You're scum, and you're also rolefishing.

What is your #1 pick?

[Benmage]

Like Ben is scum. He is not being "retarded" like Parama is saying. He is not just being aggressive. He is scum. He 100% assumes that a role is town,

that according to his theory of what a winning combination should be, is the second role that should be chosen, and he sure isnt second on the list as far as I see.

Now scum should know if what alignment that role is... they should indeed.

I don't understand the underlined.

You seem to be saying the best thing for the town is to pick cop and then weak doctor, anything else is SURELY anti-town and policy-lynchable. Given that that is the case, you should not have picked weak doc, so the only way you can know the alignment of the weak doc would to be scum with no WD on it.

No no no no. I never said the second option is weak doctor. That’s a terrible idea. The first choice is without a doubt cop. But follow me for a second. So cop is the #1 pick. Lets say its town. And the weak doctor is scum. The cop dies N1. Done deal. Lets say the weak doctor is town and the cop is scum. Weak doctor dies, by mislynching or nk’d. Cop doesn’t die…we know cop is scum and lynch accordingly. Now ideally both are in town hands and scum must find the weak doctor before killing the more powerful PR cop. That said, I never said weak doctor should be or would be an ideal #2 pick.

Ben is suggesting sub-par ideas to deal with a role that also makes a lot of assumptions about alignments.

1.

Also he is suggesting a policy lynch of a slot if they did not pick cop, if you look at him, he is setting up to turn that into his core arguemnt depending on what happens next.

2.

I think Guardian NOT-cop is more of a town tell since scum want that gone just as much if not more then town. Ben is hoping to tack on a null if even that tell to a wagon in hopes of powering through the lynch at this point

That and his first vote is ultra-scummy.

1. So?
2. Couldn't disagree more. Why would town want the cop gone?

My first vote was solid. Nor did I waste time with a rvs. And my belief on that slot remains true.

1. Look at what I dug up, town has never picked cop first, scum does half the time, that makes it a crappy policy lynch.
2. Want it gone from others hands. Scum have cop and thats one less role to hunt them down, perfectly fine move for scum to take that role early on.

1. Again different games. Different total roles. Different players. Nor do I care if people played sub-optimally in past games.
2. How does the #1 pick not taking cop make it more of a town tell? I don't understand what you're saying...."want it gone from other hands" Okay town wants it in town hands...therefore they should take it #1.....I agree that scum taking cop #1 to lead town on a wild goos chase is viable. It also denies them having to look for it if a town slot later in the pickings covered over cop. I don't see why town wouldn't want cop, and why thats a towntell for #1 pick.

[Benmage]

I want an answer here:

*****************Does anyone think theres a role better than cop to pick from?(Note vig is every other night).

Watcher can be far more powerful then cop, in a power heavy game this is like doubly true. You honestly dont see that? I would rather have town-watcher scum-cop then scum-watcher town-cop in a heartbeat.

You talking about questionable results... watcher can see a multitude of people visit a person who winds up dead and not know who committed it.

Or they could target someone noone visits and attain nothing.

Sure there's the inverter. In fact it would've been pretty protown for a lower #placing player to try for this role to make sure scum went for it/have it. If someone did, claiming so would rock.

One of the biggest reasonings I have mentioned why cop makes most sense is that it also doesn't fubar later picks. People already have mixed opinions on #1, so then #2-3-4 get screwed.

Anyways I think we've toss and tumbled on this issue enough. People have their reasoning and thats that.

[Benmage]

- I'll be reviewing the prior pages on these five and give my opinion soon. Right off the top, though, I know I've thought that Benmage and slowsilver have looked scummish to me.

You're gonna need to flush this out when you can.

[Benmage]

Anyways I think we've toss and tumbled on this issue enough. People have their reasoning and thats that.

So you finally admit that policy lynch of non-cop Gud is stupid?

No, although I wouldn't consider it a policy lynch:

One of the biggest reasonings I have mentioned why cop makes most sense is that it also doesn't fubar later picks. People already have mixed opinions on #1, so then #2-3-4 get screwed.

But I'd much rather lynch someone I think is scum. I.E. Gandalf. However if he flips town I'll be looking back at those top picks. Because that is some of my reasoning. I'm not policy lynching. I'm lynching scum. I think theres scum in the top picks. Moreover #1 not picking cop is a scum-tell for me. Yes I know scum has picked cop #1 before. So it isn't a policy. But regardless gandalf is my primary concern. Not Gude.

[Benmage]

Well I had wanted to wait for some more crappy votes to pile on before debunking my wagon. But the deadline is vastly approaching and I can’t risk a quick lynch.

Much as I don't like to agree with the above scum. He's right. We're 48 hours (or less I think, without checking) from a lynch, and the closest is Gandalf, and I'd prefer either a Benmage or Guderian lynch, as I'm now the only one on Guderian, it would seem Benmage is the other option. So I'll switch back over to him and hope we can get a solid lynch on him.

unvote;
vote: Benmage

I'm also in agreement that Andrius needs to actually get involved in the game.

But you are agreeing with Guderian to lynch me....So do you think he's scum bussing? And if so why do you think he chose to bus me rather than attack gandalf, the lead wagon?

Not feeling gandalf.

VOTE: Benmage

Seriously…this is a vote. Says nothing. No reason. Calls me town in his list to Parama in his last post. Wow….

I guess that I don't want a Guderian lynch yet

Unvote

Vote: Benmage

Another short iso if you’d like to skim like DGB’s….never mentions me until the Parama question where he does put me as scum….Why? No reasoning….any reasoning here, nope….Wow…

Looks like my hand has been forced. Hoopla will have to wait until tomorrow.

unvote
VOTE: Benmage

^Self-preservation vote.

I feel like Llama keeps trying to incriminate Ban for his belief that cop is the only worthy pick for #1 (assuming town). I mean, it might not make sense and such, but why does that make him scum?

Actually it was him setting up a policy lynch on Gud if he didnt take cop more then anything else. Apart from that though what has he done? Answer is close to nothing. He has basically just piggybacked on what people have said about Gandalf apart from that. He is one of the few who just seems intent on getting a lynch of one of the top picks more then anything else, which again is a little scummy on its own merits. The way he is going about it is even worse. Only paranoia is that my favorite pick for a partner to Gandalf-scum just voted Ben.

unvote
Vote Ben

So much for thinking I’m town via others you trusted…or was that baloney. Don’t tell me slowsilver and DGB were your trusted ones…lol..

In what world would me incriminating Gude for not taking cop #1 pick translate into me being scum. First and foremost if you want to call it a policy lynch, how many D1 policy lynches have you see scum try and lead/push when met with intense resistance. Has anyone catered to my opinion on the #1 pick? Yet have I changed my views on it?

Now your second part of slipping your vote onto me….I haven’t done enough….fair enough, been busy…But I have made effort, and I am nowhere near the worst in that boat.

Even though ParanaD hasn’t specified why he’s voting me…I’d be assuming it goes hand to hand with Llama’s reasoning for disliking my opinion on what the #1 slot would pick…but again I say, how is that indicative of me scum?

It's really quite obvious where this is going. I'd like for lynch to be achieved, so here goes.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Benmage

Reasoning for switching from gandalf to me?

[Benmage]

Anywhose TL/DR...I'm a VT..if someone worthwild not voting me wants to know what I went for, I'll claim it.

[Benmage]

Anywhose TL/DR...I'm a VT..if someone worthwild not voting me

wants to know what I went for, I'll claim it.

Um, duh? Or is this not correct PYP theory?

Since i'm not too concerned with being lynched. And all the votes on me +most of the people voting me are horrendous, I don't know if I want to state what I went for...because that narrows down the top picks greatly. (Hint hint, wasn't gunsmith or obviously cop)

[Benmage]

Benmage's attitude concerns me.

Phenomenal, why did you switch from gandalf to me?

Bullet your reasoning as to why I am scummy/why you want me lynched.

[Benmage]

DGB

why did you vote me? How did you switch from a town read to wanting me dead?

[Benmage]

@benmage's little post on his votes: Of course it was a self-preservation vote. I know I'm town, I'm pretty certain you're scum, me and you are the only people gonna be lynched today. Why in the hell would I not vote for you?

And why am I scum to you?

[Benmage]

I don't remember, don't really care. Even if I was fairly sure you were town, lynching you would be better than lynching me simply because while I THINK you're town(hypothetically), I KNOW I'm town.

And that's why I called it a self preservation vote. You have no reason to vote me other than you don't want to die yourself .....not very convincing for the lead wagon, trying to push an alternate one.

[Benmage]

I don't remember, don't really care. Even if I was fairly sure you were town, lynching you would be better than lynching me simply because while I THINK you're town(hypothetically), I KNOW I'm town.

And that's why I called it a self preservation vote. You have no reason to vote me other than you don't want to die yourself .....not very convincing for the lead wagon, trying to push an alternate one.

Ehhh... thats a bad point. I dont think town-gandalf or scum-gandalf would vote for someone else. Any other vote is a guarenteed death.

My point was to crushed post 691 where he calls me scum. Yet he actually has no clue what he's talking about. Hence it being a self preservation vote only.

[Benmage]

Err post 686 I meant.

[Benmage]

Im sick

[Benmage]

I know Gudes role. I don't see a need for him to claim.

vote slowsilver

[Benmage]

I know Gudes role. I don't see a need for him to claim.

vote slowsilver

Well, since you're pretty much claiming role-cop, give me a list of roles you wouldn't want Guderian claiming right now. And I'll tell you which ones will be handy to know right now, because I don't trust your judgement.

I already claimed VT....come on hoopla deduction, how could I know Gudes role?

[Benmage]

. (Hint hint, wasn't gunsmith or obviously cop)

Swing and a miss.

[Benmage]

How was I scummy in your opinion slow?

[Benmage]

Everyone not voting needs to place a vote.

[Benmage]

Everyone not voting needs to place a vote.

Wrong thread, my bad.

[Benmage]

SLOWSILVER

....Why did you think I was scummy?

BenMage to me was very scummy during the middle of Day 1 (reading back for an example), and that is why I voted him.

[Benmage]

Anyone voting slowsilver gets scumpoints. You people are just lynching the always-scummy players it seems. And I'm pretty damn sure silver is town this game.

You mean like when we lynched always scummy gandalf who also flipped scum for a multitude of reasons...while you had your vote on.....oh yeah ...me...what happened with that, why/how was I scummy, and where would you care to look today?

[Benmage]

Llama since I'm not listening to your reads for the rest of the game, want to humor us with that "predominant" scum read now?

Its Sajin, Prana and people who are lurking (rabies, eli, andrius, IAU)

Lol, thats not too shabby of a list...I also don't like DGB...but first and foremost, obviously, slow needs to go.

[Benmage]

I say we lynch slow, modkill rabies and see what tomorrow brings.

There's definitely scum in the 6's, but is there scum in the 8's?

[Benmage]

FYI Rabies last visited the site, the last time he post here..nov 27....shame on spyrex for allowing such a noobie in our game...shame shame shame.

[Benmage]

Spam

MOD

do we see modkills original alignment?

[Benmage]

I, knowing Gude's role, said it's unnecessary for him to claim.

[Benmage]

When I claimed VT I said I didn't go for cop nor gunsmith.

[Benmage]

That was the hammer?

Why do we fail, town. Why?

Is slowsilver hammered? That means we lynched town, which is crap play.

It's like a broken record.

[Benmage]

It's funny because you didn't deny being scum.

Y'know... that tends to go without saying. Town will say it because it's true, scum will say it because they want you to believe it's true. So what's the point in saying it in the first place unless you plan on posting fluff? Derp.

And Jack, if there's a case on me, I can respond to it. If there isn't, I can't. Simples.

-you tried to derail the gandalf wagon
-you attacked/bordline tunneled me with minimal justification
-you couldn't wagoned harder onto slowsliver, nor have had a shittier vote. (Do you even know why we believe slow to be scum?)
-I haven't thought a single one of your posts decent
-you're a # double

And this is just off the top of my head.

[Benmage]

Benmage 2-0. Ill check back in later. Might be time for Prana or a look at dem 6's.

[Benmage]

Wait hoopla claimed the jk thing and is....? The role cop?

[Benmage]

I still like Prana scum.

[Benmage]

What info does vollkan have for us tonight?

[Benmage]

Hey its not like gandalf was able to LIE about the role he chose and got vanilla too, am I right?

Thats just impossible

Thats the crazy talking...although gandalf would've made a great super saint. Dude always sucks.

[Benmage]

It's as good as anything.

Vote Cupcake

[Benmage]

Here's some added argument fun facts...what could be the worlds most easiest target? A #6... A #6 who lurks. dunt dunt dunt:

Vote: Andrius

Where are you? You've been on the site - why are you forgetting about us? Lynch all lurkers.

Parama is andrius' scumbuddy.

Unvote, Vote Andrius

Or we can lynch lurker-scum andrius, and save the massclaim for tomorrow.

Methinks that's a better idea.

Vote: Andrius

P-EDIT: STOP NINJA-ING ME PPLS

Lets lynch the cake, he flips scum and I'm confident andrius is town.

[Benmage]

I wonder if we can sweep this....Sweeping would be fun.

I hope I'm scum in PYP5.

[Benmage]

Benmage, you seem awfully quiet.

?

[Benmage]

Benmage, you seem awfully quiet.

?

I just fakeclaimed watcher, Cupcake claimed vig, I reclaimed tracker, scum roleblocker was narrowed down, I could go on etc.

And nothing? You have nothing to say?

Dude its the weekend..I was out and about all day, I just back from the gym a little a go...Gonna shower and then be out for the night. Christmas party...and then well its Saturday.

I skim on my phone, so just cause you may see me on site, doesn't mean shit.

[Benmage]

I mean, I want xvart to be town, I really do, but Jack as scum instead? Benmage?

Uhhh I mean I'm awesome as scum...but its pretty much impossible for me to be it this game.

-Early gandalf pusher.
-The counter wagon to gandalf.
-Voted both by gandalf and slowsilver.
-Early voter of slowsilver.
-Same # as slowsilver.

Really.... If I'm scum .

All things said I'm still down for a Cupcake lynch.

[Benmage]

Oh, and I definitely don't think Andrius should just be given a free pass... Not killed today? Duh. But a free pass? Hellz no.

[Benmage]

unvote vote xvart

I remember his play reminding me of aCoK, but forgetting to personally pursue this, so I'm just gonna leach here and put more effort here later if need be.

That said, I totally want cupcake dead and got him pegged as scum.

I'll do some maybe...Vote Analysis of where/how jack/xvart acted with our first and second lynches.

Also depending if we nail the RB'r now, depending on if we think scum have the inverter, and depending on what Prana tells us tomorrow, we may want to kill him tomorrow to confirm us 2 questionable townies.

[Benmage]

Yeah I think the game is stalling because people are torn between Jack and Xvart.

[Benmage]

Ah well...if jacks town than xvart tomorrow?

Unvote vote Jack

L-2

Vollkan send in his night action?

[Benmage]

At this stage, I say someone just hammers Jack. If Vollkan seriously hasn't got his action in by now (He should, in all honesty, have sent it in when he knew he hadn't, rather than posting about it) I would suggest lynching him tomorrow. Unless I get a guilty of course.

Wow.....Uhmmm no.

[Benmage]

Infact

unvote

[Benmage]

mmm did I have to ....

unvote jack

?

[Benmage]

Vote Jack

[Benmage]

The PRs waiting to claim their info can catch someone in a lie.

Anywhose I'm thinking final two scum are lurkers in the 6's...Andrius could've been being bussed.

[Benmage]

Andrius or Pom me thinks.

[Benmage]

Cupcake, have your night action on one of the 6's.

Prana, confirm xvart or fate for us.

[Benmage]

I think prana is tomorrow's lynch regardless of what he finds. This way we either clear 4 catch a scum (the following day ) or get scum prana. Either way we are so dominant rout now.

[Benmage]

Cupcake, have your night action on one of the 6's.

Prana, confirm xvart or fate for us.

ARE YOU FUCKIN HIGH?

I NAILSCUM ROLEBLOCKER AND ALL YOU CAN DO IS CLOWN AROUND?

Clown around? I've helped lead or been apart of every lynch. The suspect pool is dwindling, why wouldn't you welcome confirmation?

unvote vote Andrius

if I caught scum in the signup thread I roxors.

[Benmage]

Cupcake

since Pom is confirmed by Prana and we are lynching Andrius have your kill on iau or dgb.

[Benmage]

If Prana gets a guilty we lynch it, otherwise we lynch him.

[Benmage]

Cupcake, have your night action on one of the 6's.

Prana, confirm xvart or fate for us.

ARE YOU FUCKIN HIGH?

I NAILSCUM ROLEBLOCKER AND ALL YOU CAN DO IS CLOWN AROUND?

Clown around? I've helped lead or been apart of every lynch. The suspect pool is dwindling, why wouldn't you welcome confirmation?

unvote vote Andrius

if I caught scum in the signup thread I roxors.

Because its a WASTE OF AN ACTION.

Its like investigating you, we're both OBVTOWNZ due to day play. There are much better targets out there like DGBZ and IAMZ.

Let's let Andrius get modkilled what the hells the matter with you people.

Massclaim is a go.

But I didn't want Prana to investigate someone Cupcake is going to kill.. I mean we can break it down further.

Prana investigate DGB
Cupcake kill iau
We lynch Andrius.

[Benmage]

Prana, IAU is best..but Gude/Fate and Xvart work.

[Benmage]

Fate stop imploding.

We are lynching Andrius.

Fate is a bad kill but whatever.

Prana I didn't want you to name it. I said fate xvart or iau, even gude works.....with fate being shot switch him with dgb.....investigating me is fine, but retarded if you've been reading at all....

Anywhose I'm VT to watcher. Making Gude the watcher.

[Benmage]

I REFUSE TO DIE AT THE HANDS OF A FUCKING CUPCAKE.

I'M THE GODDAMN TRACKER

Its a stupid choice, I agree...but lynching him now is suboptimal play.

[Benmage]

Fate, I did claim before him.

[Benmage]

Post 1233

[Benmage]

Everything is on schedule, this makes Pranas cop claim slightly stronger. Although I'm sure scum cop would still perform their action for the sake of being watched/tracked....anyways moar Andrius lynching.

Shooting Fate is bad.

[Benmage]

Fate there's a whole lot more to me being town than just a 3 flipping scum.

[Benmage]

llama, dgb, xvart....w.t.f has noone hammered yet?

[Benmage]

llama, dgb, xvart....w.t.f has noone hammered yet?

Because not everyone's claimed... and if they have... can someone who has noticed them all post a compiled list of it all?

Guderian 1,1 Watcher
Benmage 3,4 VT to watcher
Ellibereth 5,1 Neighborizher
Hoopla 10,1 VT (Don’t remember to what)
Le Cupcake 10,6 Even day-vig
xvart 11,7 VT to Even night vig.
Fate 13,1 Tracker
PranaDevil 13,10 Cop
llamafluff 8,1 Vanilla to Neighborizer
Drippinggoofball 6,10 VT to Weak Doctor
iamausername 6,11 VT to Gunsmith
Andrius 6,1 <--- Random WINNER VT to Supersaint.
Pomegranate 6,1 <--- Random Double Loser! …..Unsaid? Who cares, cleared by Prana.



There....Happy? Nothing has changed.

Hammer.

[Benmage]

Oh, again. Would not be surprised if Xvart is scum. Play reminds me of aCoK..where he was scum.

[Benmage]

Oh, again. Would not be surprised if Xvart is scum. Play reminds me of aCoK..where he was scum.

But that would mean he picked the same X number as Jackscum. Do you believe they would have done that?

Do I think it's more likely in the 6's yes...do I think xvart has played a scummy game nonetheless and do i think they could've doubled up on the 11's....Yes x2.

We seem to have the 6's on lockdown in the next day or so....If we only get 1 scum there, which I am assuming will be the minimum, than I feel strongly that the next spot to look would be xvart.

[Benmage]

Oh, again. Would not be surprised if Xvart is scum. Play reminds me of aCoK..where he was scum.

Do I think it's more likely in the 6's yes...do I think xvart has played a scummy game nonetheless and do i think they could've doubled up on the 11's....Yes x2.

We seem to have the 6's on lockdown in the next day or so....If we only get 1 scum there, which I am assuming will be the minimum, than I feel strongly that the next spot to look would be xvart.

You've said my play in this game reminds you of CoK a couple times now. You are going to have to elaborate a little more because I don't see how they even remotely resemble each other simply because of the game type and structure. Furthermore, if you think it is because I bussed one of my partners D1 hard in CoK you should also remember that I forgot that dana was my partner in that game D1. If the only comparison you are making is that I bussed hard D1 you should also note that every single scum member except Jack I was all over D1 in this game.

Its tough to describe but its kind've like your general lock of substantial input into this game. You seem to be doing just enough to get by without really attacking anyone. Like aCoK...everyone was distracted doing their own thing, and you just coasted.

[Benmage]

llama if ur down for iau/andrius....why have you not hammered andrius?

[Benmage]

Plus DGb you havent done shit.

Thats the case.

You've done nothing. Zilch. Zero. 0

[Benmage]

To fuck with scum.

Such as yourself who apparently knows FOR REAL whether scum have it or not.
VOTE: Xvart

Case closed. Your Jackvote was some textbook bussing too

You are swinging at ghosts, Fate. I never said I knew there was an Inverter in play nor could you read any such thing into my post. There was discussion about the Inverter on that page and the viability of it being in the game theorized by Hoopla. It reminded me that you said a while back that you said the Inverter was not in scum hands or something like that. Now that everyone has claimed and since I wanted you to explain the purpose of that comment. Was it to fish out some reaction from a scum member who might have had it?

Well even with an inverter....Pom and Llama were investigated before Prana claimed....so only cupcake could've gotten inverted...so if he's the 5th scum, we'll know this when we lynch the 4th scum and see if its the inverter.... Otherwise we're still good.

[Benmage]

Nacho replaced elli, right? Yep that works for me.

vote Nacho

what a dominant town performance.

[Benmage]

I'm sorry, but the whole scum team played atrociously, jack least atrocious of all...but this game was way too easy.

I half thought of nominating this town for a scummy....but the opposition didn't seem good enough....then again some of the things that get nom'd these days...

[Benmage]

Yet very few thought I was scum.

You killed for being believed to be scum....

but if you want to see me owning scum, go check out Mini 1063, Mini 1079 or Mini 1093. Those are probably the three most recent examples.

You can just tell me the size of your dick and I'll believe you.

[Benmage]

Cop should stillbeiikf#1kfjakpicklsjflsjf /rant

[Benmage]

What was all this business with hoopla busing?

(DGB!!!)

Ya what was this about?

[Benmage]

I hope I'm scum in the next 1

[Benmage]

I played a nonscummy game with zero fear of being lynched....I enjoyed the wagon on me and all the scum that tried to hop on to it. Quite comical.

And llama and prana were off on everything.