Mini 1097: Simple Mafia

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: CooLDoG for sucking.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: CooLDoG for sucking.

Is he actually policy worthy or is this just RVS stage stuff.

It's an RVS vote; I am against almost all policy lynches.

[StrangerCoug]

unvote, vote: StrangerCoug

So your RVS logic is a pseudo-policy lynch? On an obvious townie? Ehehehehe no.

You are overreacting here. I had no read on anybody, so I voted him for voting me. The "for sucking" is admitting that it is an OMGUS vote, as it stands for "

o

h

m

y

G

od, yo

u s

uck". I also don't like people being called obvtown on page 1 let alone when the RVS is barely over.

UNVOTE: CooLDoG
VOTE: Lord Cable

[StrangerCoug]

I know what OMGUS stands for. I am an alt - do not treat me like a 5 year old.

Then do not act like you have no clue what I'm doing. I made it clear that I do not usually support policy lynches, but you were treating my vote as if I were. I clearly was not serious.

You say I'm overreacting while also assuming that I don't know what OMGUS means. Your assumption is that I'm overreacting to the OMGUS, knowing it's an OMGUS, but you then try to explain what OMGUS is immediately after. This is a contradiction.

Explaining OMGUS to somebody you know knows what it means is odd, but your push has a flaw—you gave me the impression that I legitimately wanted to get rid of a bad player. Do I believe CooLDoG to be a bad player? No, and even if I did we have not yet completed a game together, so for me to know requires me to meta him.

Also, tell me the scum motivation for calling people obvtown on page 1. Really. I think CooLDoG is town, so I am announcing this to the world. If it makes the scum flock over in my direction and try to make me dead, so be it, it only makes them easier to find.

There could be a number of reasons. Trying to get town off their scumbuddy, telling other scumbuddies who to kill (which is why people rarely like announcing town reads at all), etc. It can get pretty complex.

[StrangerCoug]

Well sarcasm on the internet doesn't tend to get expressed very well. It looked serious enough when I read it and I can't really just take your word that it wasn't serious.

I have a crappy sense of humor too. That's why I find context very helpful.

And I totally could've known that you didn't think CooLDoG was a bad player, right?

Well, you could've meta'd me and seen if I had any previous interactions with him (despite my horrendously out of date Wiki page). You could've meta'd CooLDoG and see what would likely be my impression of him, even though you have a point that you wouldn't know what it would be for sure.

I'm not really a mind-reader. Is it safe to assume you are?

No, but it

IS

safe to assume that I take more than three seconds to think. I mentally revise my posts several times in my head. Do I always give people the impression I want? The answer, as you are aware, is no. Do I try? I certainly do.

WIFOM is fun. But I don't see any harm in a single player announcing their town reads. It tells town PRs who to protect and/or watch, who not for town PRs to investigate or kill, etc.

That may be true, and I admit that this is WIFOM territory, but do you, as a vanilla townie (this is merely an assumption), know that power roles exist in the setup? If you are a power role trying to get people to think you're not, do you know that there are other power roles in case your cover is blown? Don't you think the Mafia might take how power roles that they think could exist into account?

[StrangerCoug]

The bottom of my last post has some questions outstanding for him and I don't like people ending the day when that is the case, but they're close-ended questions that try to probe his thinking. The same post implies that I don't think he's doing too much of it, so I won't be too unhappy if I am not given an opportunity for answers.

[StrangerCoug]

3. Probably, but here's a counter-question - If you were mafia and had to choose between killing an obvious townie who might be protected/watched or killing a scummy player who has a high chance of being a power role, which would you go for?

I personally would probably kill the obvtown. I can't pick up PR reads to save my life.

[StrangerCoug]

Can we kill the nut case already!?

[StrangerCoug]

Not 100% happy with the Plum wagon that's starting to happen. Guderian has good points about her and Nachomamma8, though, so I want to see what they say.

Preview edit:

Plum's response seems to be OK. It shouldn't take long to do wagon analysis...

[StrangerCoug]

Quick look at the ISOs of everybody but me on the Lord Cable wagon:

• TheButtonmen talks to me more than Lord Cable, and I can't determine the vote reason from the latter just from the ISO. There is only one post between his ISO's 1 and 2, and it's LC's, so I'll waive that as a context-dependent thing.
  
• Internet Stranger was pushing against Lord Cable very hard, so I think the odds of them being scumbuddies are low.
  
• Guderian guns Jerbs first, then starts switching off to Lord Cable. Given Jerbs was the Night 1 kill, Guderian as scum makes no sense to me.
  
• CooLDoG seems a tad off as he said he wanted a vote count before he hammered Lord Cable. Then he pushes for a Lord Cable claim, which he refuses to give twice. Why did he respond to the first denial to claim by asking again?

I'm not going to vote CooLDoG since he's not scummy enough to me to warrant my vote. I want my question answered, though.

[StrangerCoug]

That's actually my best lead. I know I said I hate most policy lynches and LALurkers falls under "most policy lynches", but I'm not above it if I have no other good target.

...You know what? VOTE: Nachomamma8.

[StrangerCoug]

Guderian guns Jerbs first, then starts switching off to Lord Cable. Given Jerbs was the Night 1 kill, Guderian as scum makes no sense to me.

Why not? It was an RVS-style vote (later he tried to make it seem like something more, but he never pushed Jerbs, really) and Jerbs got no attention. I don't think the Jerbs kill correlates either negatively or positively to the possibility of scum-Guderian.

To me, killing your attackee when you're the last scum is suicide. I must note that the WIFOM possibility exists, but that's my current state of mind.

Guderian, I always assume three scum. Why would you assume two? Why does it matter? Your actions are the scummiest of them all now.

If every lynch and nightkill in a 6:3 mountainous is on a townie, the Mafia will win on Day 2. On the other hand, town can't eliminate all the Mafia until Day 3 even with perfect play. Your attack here is unreasonable.

UNVOTE: Nachomamma8
VOTE: Internet Stranger
(P.S. We should hydra sometime. I have to stop myself from typing Internet StrangerCoug by mistake.)

[StrangerCoug]

Misguided schmisguided. I expect him to know better than to think having differing opinions about the setup is scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

Gah! Idiots! Here are the latest mini-games I have been in:

Mini 1053: 3 scum
Mini 1084: 3 scum (and GUDERIAN was there too!)

How am I supposed to assume anything else? WTF is wrong with you Coug?

1053 was a 12P, as was 1084. Those games could safely have three scum. A 9P cannot. I will not participate in this pissing contest.

Cut out the stupidity and take a look at Guderian already. I deliver you a scum on a silver platter and this is how you treat me? Youre an ingrate!

I don't see the case on Guderian. Sorry.

[StrangerCoug]

UNVOTE: Internet Stranger, but do me some convincing or I revote Nachomamma8 anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

Read page 2, all of Guderian's scumminess is right there. He was sitting there trying to come up with way to derail the lynch from LC. He tried to diffuse my case against LC, he implicated Coug, when that failed, he implicated Jerbs. He only voted on day 1 when LC told him to do so.

It's not clear to me that he's trying to derail the Lord Cable lynch when he's clearly keeping an eye on him, and neither is it clear to me that he has a solid stance on me.

Day2 "Plum is scum! Plum is scum! Vote Nacho!"

If there are only two scum, why would Guderian say this? Wouldnt 1 more scum lynch = win?

Plum's logic looks good, but makes little sense. I'm not sure why you didn't hammer him yesterday instead of waiting around. I dont think his wagon was certain before I put the vote on him.

I'll put my vote on plum If you promise to wipe out nachomamma tomorrow should I die in the night. I'm not partial which order they go.
unvote
Vote: Plum

Then this?

For one, I want to know more about why IS thinks there is three mafia. Town only win 30% of the time in 12 man games. How would it possibly be fair in a 3 man game?

I isoed TBM (albiet not much to see), and I can't see anything overly scummy. Or scummy at all. Though, posts with more than one line with a vote would help me get a read on him.

Actually, I reread plum now that she has laid out her explanation of why she didn't hammer, and it kinda sorta makes sense. Not sure i'm 100% there yet, but there really wasn't that much time or lag where she was messing around and not hammering. So I think that's almost a moot point now.

Apparently Guderian thought it was ok to there be three when he said it, but jumps down my throat when I say it? I didnt even realize it was a 9 man game. Whats his excuse? (Answer: He is scum and doesnt care who gets lynched).

Can we lynch him now, please?

This, however, I'll buy. Guderian's logic doesn't make sense here.

VOTE: Guderian

[StrangerCoug]

That's absurd! The failure to pay attention to the total number of players is not scummy, especially since we've established that IS is more used to 12-player games.

[StrangerCoug]

First, that statement of yours is so wrong its funny,

Are you going to explain how it's wrong or should I let this blow past me as if it's nothing?

Guderian's logic doesn't make sense here.

What are you talking about in this sentence.

The first post IS brings up reads as if you know the game will still be ongoing after Plum dies. As for the second post he talks about, whether or not this is a 12-player game, why are you 1.) talking about the statistics for 12P games and 2.) calling IS scum for thinking it's a 12P?

[StrangerCoug]

And I can't believe you're seriously considering the fact miscounting the number of people in the game is scummy. I am 95% sure that the remaining Mafiate has a higher IQ than Lord Cable and 100% sure that that person can do basic math.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm 95% Lord Cable's buddy is smarter than him. He got what he deserved.

[StrangerCoug]

You conveniently cut out Internet Stranger's quote, which is one main reason, in the second post. The other main reason is that I think you going after Internet Stranger for miscounting the number of people in the game, which is the lamest case ever. Thanks for telling me that you're cherry picking.

[StrangerCoug]

Explain you goddamn case then. I am asking what the reason is. I still dont understand it. is it this?:

So why exactly are you voting me?

Because you perceive that I claimed 3 scum, then backtracked, then called out IS, all of which is false?

That's the logic I'm having trouble with, yes.

Going after IS? Hardly. I don't think he is scum. The scum is nacho.

Then why the hell are you making such a big fuss about his miscount? How does having the wrong impression of the number of players help scum out, anyway?

@IS, Plum and SC:

How open are you to moving your votes?

Not all that open. I think Internet Stranger put me on the right path here. I'm willing to hear cases on other people, but I'm happy with my vote.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, I'm not too upset. After all, I think we've got it.

[StrangerCoug]

Uh... Nachomamma8, as good a point as that is, is what you're doing OK? I'd hate to be in LYLO because somebody didn't read the rules...

[StrangerCoug]

It's generally accepted that you cannot talk about ongoing games.

[StrangerCoug]

No mod action, so I'm assuming Nachomamma8 is OK. I'm still puzzled as to the unvote of TheButtonmen, though.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh I've done worse, TheButtonmen. Don't worry.

I've had some time to let it sink in, and I couldn't agree more with #179 by Plum. I'm practically on a date with Lynch All Liars myself, but you're supposed to take what alignment someone probably is into account when you vote someone post-RVS, not go "I don't care what you are; you did this wrong; goodbye."

VOTE: TheButtonmen

[StrangerCoug]

For a moment, I thought it was night...

Mod: Please prod everybody that hasn't announced V/LA.

[StrangerCoug]

*jumps in a hammock waiting for TheButtonmen to die*

[StrangerCoug]

*jumps in a hammock waiting for TheButtonmen to die*

I flip town who do you suspect and why?

I don't think you and Nachomamma8 are the same alignment, so him. His unvote of you when I prompted him about why he was linking to the other games Guderian claimed he was his older brother Conrad still comes off funny. I didn't seriously suspect him for posting the links, but nobody likes modkills. I also don't like his Day 1 absence.

[StrangerCoug]

Quick look at the ISOs of everybody but me on the Lord Cable wagon:

• TheButtonmen talks to me more than Lord Cable, and I can't determine the vote reason from the latter just from the ISO. There is only one post between his ISO's 1 and 2, and it's LC's, so I'll waive that as a context-dependent thing.
  
• Internet Stranger was pushing against Lord Cable very hard, so I think the odds of them being scumbuddies are low.
  
• Guderian guns Jerbs first, then starts switching off to Lord Cable. Given Jerbs was the Night 1 kill, Guderian as scum makes no sense to me.

CooLDoG seems a tad off as he said he wanted a vote count before he hammered Lord Cable. Then he pushes for a Lord Cable claim, which he refuses to give twice. Why did he respond to the first denial to claim by asking again?

I'm not going to vote CooLDoG since he's not scummy enough to me to warrant my vote. I want my question answered, though.

He then proceeds to vote for the two town reads he got off the Lord Cable wagon.

[StrangerCoug]

Unless anybody has any strong objections I'm moving deadline to 48 hours hence

The game's been slow as is, but that's fine.

[StrangerCoug]

This day's been dragging and I want to see blood. If you're not in favor of a TheButtonmen lynch, tell us who you want to lynch and give a detailed case why. This is crazy.

[StrangerCoug]

We're massclaiming before we're voting anyone. Nobody that flipped has a power, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so I see no foul in this tactic.

Who should start?

[StrangerCoug]

All right.

[StrangerCoug]

Mafia goon, town.

Nachomamma8, that leaves you.

[StrangerCoug]

CooLDoG, LYLO is the time to put some thought into who's scum and who's not! You can't just PoE when we both claimed VT; that's how you cost us.