Mini #1081 - SitMOA Mafia (Endgame... Congrats, winners!)

[AdumbroDeus]

/confirm

[AdumbroDeus]

4 pages already? Damn.

VOTE: chesskid3

Cause charmander is the best RBGY starter, obviously.

[AdumbroDeus]

UNVOTE:


Chess seems more dumb then scum for now.

i have about 2 days v/la please.

i gotta say, wagon on chess looks oppurtunistic

Lol congrats, you can defend your scumbuddy.

Question, why?

@chess and doom:

Who are your top scumpicks and townpicks, and why?

/confirm

I think you need more then that...

Care to comment on chess vs. doom?

Also, what are your scumpicks?

@mod:

Prod Vren please.

Vren asked for a replacement, and I'm still looking for it.

[AdumbroDeus]

Also for someone who asserted that they wanted Ambro to post (may have been someone else, if so disregard), you seem awfully unconcerned with the fact that he unvoted, didn't put his vote anywhere, but started asking other people for scum/townreads without giving any himself.
That's called sitting back, waiting for a bandwagon and then joining after it's got momentum. Scumtastic. I will not be adressing any requests he made of me until he does them himself. If you have a problem with that, there's something wrong with you.

If by dumb you mean "deals with scumtastic attacks while still doing an excellent job of scumhunting" then sure, I agree with you.

In other news, WAY TO ASK PEOPLE FOR SCUMPICKS WITHOUT GIVING ANY OF YOUR OWN. Hypocrisy much?

@AdumbroDeus

: Who are your top scumpicks and townpicks, and why?

Ok, dumbtown read confirmed.


Your question is legitimate but your implication about it being scummy is... dumb. You were not accused of anything you were merely asked for stances, you know, producing information.

Your reasoning for why it's scummy is a textbook example of putting a scummy spin on actions without explaining why they're INHERENTLY scummy (hint:asking for stances pretty much never is inherently scummy). Maybe if I actually did immediately jump on a wagon after your answer but... why ask you then?


So anyway, my reads so far (from scummieness to townieness)

Scum:

leaning scum:

Primarily neutral:

Gandolf (his 10 (viewtopic.php?p=2620324#p2620324) feels weird, and his contribution seems designed to seem more then it is)

vezokpiraka (lurkerscumish vibes

Everyone else (don't have a read on everyone yet)

leaning town:

Chesskid (dumb, but pattern definitely leads dumbtown over dumbscum).

Katsuki (good contribution, good questions, seems town so far)

Town:

@Riceballtail:

Where you at? Some contribution please, what are your town/scumpicks?

[AdumbroDeus]

EWOP: Didn't mean to submit that yet.



Overall, a few leaning town reads, no clear scum reads, and a couple of people on the wrong side of null.



So, now you can answer my question.

[AdumbroDeus]

@Adumbro- I asked you a question a while back, answer it.

Where?

Quote and link to post please.

@chess and doom: Who are your top scumpicks and townpicks, and why?

Scumpicks- You (will get into it later in this post) then chess, then Andrew
Townpicks- Nice try scumz

...

Wait, you think asking you to take stances IS SCUMMY?

*facepalm*

Townpicks and scumpicks are important for stance analysis and useful information for town.

Wow! You can't even find ONE person who you think is even slightly scum! You're on a roll!

Reread... I explicitly put people on the wrong side of null and explained why, cause yea, nobody stands out to me as scummy enough to push further.

1. For random voting after the RVS was over which signalled that she wasn't even reading the thread.

This was the last post before mine...

mr gandalf is pissed at me cos i pwned him in hobbits doctor mafia = =

You seemed under the mistaken impression that RVS was over while most of the thread seemed to disagree, however it wasn't worth quibbling over so I didn't bother arguing with you.

2. Asking for townpicks. WTF?

Good God...

3. A lack of any scumhunting whatsoever (unless you count "What are your scumpicks and townpicks?")

Asking question isn't how you scumhunt?

Then how DO you scumhunt praytell?

4. for having only FUCKING SMALLISH VIBES. I mean come on... We're on page seven. You should have SOMETHING by now.

Nobody's made a large enough slip to push them further then that.

5. For previous lurking

There IS a v/la thread you know, you'd do well to read it prior to accusing people of lurking.




Another dumbtown read, this might just be a process of elimination game.

@Gandolf:

Still waiting for my answer.

leaning town:
Katsuki (good contribution, good questions, seems town so far)

i'm not quite seeing how Katsuki's contribution has been particularly good so far.

Question, why?

How do you feel about Vren and RBT, both of whom have yet to post besides confirming? (and in RBT's case one other post in which he votes for a player who is not in the game)

Thoughts?

You should pay more attention.

Also, I'm not voting someone who's not in the game.

You planning on answering my question and giving some town/scum picks? Also, I didn't ask for this initially but some explanations please?

[AdumbroDeus]

Wait, you think asking you to take stances IS SCUMMY?

*facepalm*

Townpicks and scumpicks are important for stance analysis and useful information for town.

I DID tell you my scumpicks kthx. Townpicks don't help town all that much and are just guides telling maf who to kill.

I got news for you, it's pretty basic analysis to figure out who's the most trusted townie at the end of the day. Scum will figure it out if don't put the information out there.


However taking a stance on whose townie at various points during the day for a variety of different people makes it easier makes it much easier to analyze who has what reads, and probably more importantly, gives us a snapshot of makes it change by comparing townlists at various points of the day.


Actually, I just had this conversation with somebody I play with on smashboards a few days ago.

Reread... I explicitly put people on the wrong side of null and explained why, cause yea, nobody stands out to me as scummy enough to push further.

Slightly on the null side isn't good enough. Everyone knows at least one person who they have good scumreads on except you. Notice a problem?

People being too quick to declare others scum?

While uncommon, winning games through process of elimination is a perfectly viable strategy when there are stand-out town tells, but no stand-out scum tells.

You seemed under the mistaken impression that RVS was over while most of the thread seemed to disagree, however it wasn't worth quibbling over so I didn't bother arguing with you.

chess is not most people. chess is one person. That is all.

Didn't I quote another RVS post right above one? As well as the majority of posts before that? RVS stops when it stops, you're not the arbitrator of when RVS ends.

Asking question isn't how you scumhunt?

Then how DO you scumhunt praytell?

No, asking questions is scumhunting. JUST asking for scum/townreads isn't.

Except that isn't all I was doing, but regardless asking people to take stances IS one of the most useful forms of information you can get. It's also a nice way of getting people who need to talk talking.

@gandalf

Answer my question.

VOTE: gandalf5166

[AdumbroDeus]

I never said townreads were useless. I said stating them in thread without any scumreads to go along with is scummy. And yes I know that ADB did the same thing, but I find chess scummier, so he can wait until tomorrow.

imagine if you had all but 3/4 town reads- that would be useful, will it not?
adumbrodeus wheres the question for gandalf? i cant see it

i have about 2 days v/la please.

i gotta say, wagon on chess looks oppurtunistic

Lol congrats, you can defend your scumbuddy.

Question, why?

This has been a standing question since the second post I made on this thread and he has yet to answer it.



Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean, but your post was an illustration since it obviously wasn't just chesskid who thought it was still RVS.

[AdumbroDeus]

Why are we getting into this game theory discussion? Days should be as long as they need to be to secure the info town needs and a lynch.

What do you mean why?

Why do you believe he was defending his scumbuddy?


Simple enough question.

@Adumbro- I feel fine not helping scum out kthx. I'll tell you everyone eho I have at least slight scumreads on adn ou can figure out who I'm getting town/null reads on from there:

Problem is, it does more damage to town.

But the thing is there ARE scum tells. Somehow you seem to be failing to look for them. I'm going to request something from you: reread the thread and tell me who your top 3 scumreads are no matter how slight the reads you have on them are.

That's a very different question.

At the time of your post plenty of people were making serious votes. How you connected serious votes to "OMG ITS STILL RVS TIME" I fail to understand (Wait a minute... Why the fuck are we still on this? We should have stopped talking about when the RVS ended a long, long time ago)

Then don't use it to pad a substanceless case to make it look like it had more substance...

Regardless, there were some serious votes, but it seemed like the majority hadn't moved out of RVS.

@Adumbro- How scummy do you find Gandalf? Is your vote a vote you plan on keeping or just a pressure vote to get him to talk?

Depends on his answer.

Oh yes, asking one other question and calling out chess for being dumbtown... How could I have missed these earth shattering breakthroughs in scumhunting >.>

Hyperbole... I think you BELIEVE I'm scum, but you could definately do with a reread if you think this is even remotely legit.

If I remember correctly the only person you asked who needed to talk was Kat...

I suggest you reread then.

[AdumbroDeus]

I haven't been replaced? Cool.


Sorry all, personal problems resulting in absolutely no internet access over thanksgiving break, it was sudden so I didn't have a chance to inform anyone and frankly, it wasn't on my mind. Catching up now, will post after work.

[AdumbroDeus]

Narsis reads as scum that's essentially giving up right now.

AdumbroDeus: A few things strike me as odd about his play and posts so far.

He seems to be really focused on asking people for scum/town lists hunches, and it makes me think he's trying to blend to the background by simply larking the general consensus. His general view of the game list (ISO post #3) is mostly general stuff that the town in general believes (except an opinion about Katsuki, see below). His 3 stances are mainly talking about the RVS (pointless), defending himself, and bullying his points to get people to spout suspicion lists.

As well, I have gut feeling that Katsuki, but the fact that's he's posted so little that isn't fluff makes hard to find any evidence.

Vote AdubroDeus

So, care to give an actual case if you think I'm scum.

Cause this case is entirely built on a combination of neutral, pro-town, and anti-town actions that you've read with a scummy intent (the anti-town obviously being the lurking, which is beyond my control and exists in every game I'm in currently, as well as being announced Feel free to confirm this by reading my other mafiascum and smashboards games). Yes, I could be trying to get suspicion lists to lurk consensus so I could survive, but at the same time I could be trying to build records of people's stances and force people to take stances so we can analyze those stances both now and later.


We're well beyond lurker lynches, especially lurker lynches with a legit reason for lurking, unless we process of elimination everyone else out.

The rules won't let scum kill their scumbuddies, silly.

Care to explain this?






Still catching up btw.

[AdumbroDeus]

The rules won't let scum kill their scumbuddies, silly.

Someone asked the scum to kill andrew. I said that they couldn't because andrew was scum, and scum can't kill themselves. Simple really.

Where?

I can see why scum would not WANT to kill other scum, but not being able to, I see no rule against that.

[AdumbroDeus]

"We're well beyond lurker lynches, especially lurker lynches with a legit reason for lurking, unless we process of elimination everyone else out"
This is a really subtle defense of Katsuki. I don't like it.

Wait, you're pushing for Katsuki and you don't have anything more then he's lurking?


If that's true, then yes, I wouldn't support a katsuki lynch unless there are no stronger targets because it would be bad policy. I would support pushing him for stances and lynching him if he resists giving stances, but inactivity in and of itself isn't a reason to lynch except in exceptional circumstances, almost always better targets.

[AdumbroDeus]

One of Adumbro/Katsuki is scum.

Also, is it just me or is it odd that Adumbro NEVER placed a vote on someone other than an RVS vote and a pressure vote? I also find it odd that Adumbro STILL hasn't posted even an case on someone? Adumbro- Moar good posts nao.

Because I haven't been around?

As I said I already have a V/LA for cause which resulted on me being universally inactive (as I said, check the other games I was in, they all have massive gaps including one that was in lylo), am I scum in them all?


When I've fully caught up (probably this weekend) I'll have substantially more input.

EBWOP:

"We're well beyond lurker lynches, especially lurker lynches with a legit reason for lurking, unless we process of elimination everyone else out"
This is a really subtle defense of Katsuki. I don't like it.

Wait, you're pushing for Katsuki and you don't have anything more then he's lurking?

Please read the last few pages. Me as well as few others listed several reasons beyond lurking.....

As well as a tack on to the spell discussion: "Having the most obvious spell" is not a reason to lynch someone. Would it make any sense if I lynched a person because they had Magic Missile because it

obviously

had to be faked?

As I said, still working on catching up so I didn't know. So if there were substantial reasons to suspect Katsuki, why did chesskid say that it was a subtle defense of Katsuki when it clearly was attacking lynching lurkers without other cause as a policy?

VOTE: Chesskid

Explain, now.

[AdumbroDeus]

I'm still here, working on finishing getting caught up, since some people have shown a willingness to attempt to manipulate me while that status and I don't appreciate being manipulated, so I'm gonna avoid posting substance anymore till I'm finished. I'll remind you all that I do have a standing V/LA and I'll add that I'm in the middle of finals right now.

[AdumbroDeus]

You could've at least waited till the deadline to make sure I got to claim...

Urg, I played so bad this game, school kicking my ass, almost finished for the semester too.


Ah well, go town.

[AdumbroDeus]

Urg, not one of my finer moments, finals screwed me so hard there.


So lets remember ladies and gents, INACTIVITY IS NOT A SCUMTELL!


Especially when somebody claims v/la before even getting their role pm.

[AdumbroDeus]

Hehe. You were the easiest mislynch in the history of evar.

Well I did play badly, but people seemed to have the mistaken impression that inactivity is a scumtell.


Especially when it's inactivity in all your games and declared V/LA before the game begins.



And didn't even let me claim, bad town was bad.

[AdumbroDeus]

Hehe. You were the easiest mislynch in the history of evar.

Well I did play badly, but people seemed to have the mistaken impression that inactivity is a scumtell.


Especially when it's inactivity in all your games and declared V/LA before the game begins.



And didn't even let me claim, bad town was bad.

Your lynch was terrible. I do not get how it went through, but the fact that it did did not surprise me in the slightest.

Whatever, bad towns happen. What I'm really annoyed with is the pace of the game, it was so fast that once I fell behind, it was near impossible to catch up. Given that this was a mini theme I'm actually tempted to agree with the post throttling suggestion made by flayl.