Open 250 - Pie E7 Mark II

[Equinox]

/confirm

[Equinox]

Patience! I'm not eligible for a prod yet. Feelin' the love, though.

<3

Reading now. Post incoming. I'll answer this, though, and get it out of the way.

@Equinox - how would you self describe your playstyle? If you could daykill anyone from the start of this game with no repercussions, who would it be? Do you prefer chocolate or vanilla ice cream?

1. Questions, analysis, and votes. I've been known to use colored text and be kind of whimsical. >_>
2. Right this minute? curiouskarmadog, for posts 3 and 14. Might change my mind later when I've actually read the whole thread.
3. Chocolate.

[Equinox]

Sorry about that. Time isn't working in my favor right now.

sottyrulez and VP Baltar back-and-forth nearly gave me a headache. I'm getting town vibes from both of them. I probably should go back and read the previous Open 250, though.

vote SaintKerigan

fucking joking..

Why did you feel the need to include the second line? It's not like we haven't seen that particular vote before.

my god...

"...you're like a trained ape"? /shot

Okay, the real question is why you posted this. It contributed nothing to the conversation between SaintKerrigan, sottyrulez, and VP Baltar. You weren't in danger of receiving a prod, so this wasn't a prod dodger. "My God" isn't any form of analysis. So... why?

vi is quite obviously town this game...I got your meta bud

VP Baltar is correct in this regard; you pegged Vi as town on practically nothing. I call buddying.

just getting the game started,

How to kick off Day 1:

1. Ignore the real meat of the game
2. Find an inactive player who has not posted on-site since confirming
3. Vote him/her
4. ???
5.

PROFIT!

GET LYNCHED

VOTE: curiouskarmadog L-1

The game started before it even began. There was no need to try to "get the game started." That reads as an attempt to both distract the town from an informative interaction and to completely ignore contributing your own opinion. There's no excuse to ignore it when you have meta on sottyrulez and VP Baltar from the first game, and you did not hesitate to use meta on Vi on significantly smaller grounds.

Your attempt to buddy up to Vi is so blatant that it's causing some dissonance. On the one hand, we have your Best Mafia Performance Scummy; on the other hand, we have this painfully obvious move. Something's up. I don't like the smell of it, either. Explain your read on Vi.

Need moar from SaintKerrigan and nopointinactingup. Two completely null slots ATM.

[Equinox]

Equinox, quick question buddying (how do you know that vi is actually town?), what is protown about asking for St. K and no point to post (null reads) but still putting me at -1?....unless you just want my claim.

I don't know that Vi is town. I just know that your behavior towards Vi was suspect. As for your second question, the wording is interesting, but I'll run with it. Nothing pro-town about what I did; it's a totally null action. I just have no qualms about putting people at L-1 when I feel it's appropriate.

I don't care if you claim at this point because it isn't my place to ask--

I am vanilla.

Oh.

lol, you guys must think I really blow at being scum? as anyone actually bothered to read a scum game I have been in?

....but that is blah meta suck blah.

That is the problem with my read of you. The actions I outlined aren't pro-town, but your Scummy there says you can't be this obvious as scum. WRT to the bolded portion, it's interesting that you took this view on things. What about any of us led you to think that we don't like metagaming?

No, I am not unvoting until you give me what I want. You haven't done that yet.

[Equinox]

Oh, how did I miss that. The answer is "not very but I'm getting at something here."

[Equinox]

Yeah, I scanned over it because I didn't see the relevancy to post 41. Now that you've pointed it out, though, it makes sense.

UNVOTE: L-2

....but I guess that didnt really fit into your "he is scum buddying" theory..so you left it out when pushing the thoery?

Are you suggesting that I'm simply pushing a case and not trying to discern alignment? Don't pull the VP Baltar move again; one headache's enough.

spreading my vote around = scummy? voting someone who hasnt posted in game in the first 3 pages of a new game = scummy?...bullshit....

You're missing the point. I won't argue that "voting someone who hasn't posted in-game" by itself is not scummy, but doing it while ignoring a major part of the game is odd.

[Equinox]

This game is giving me some bad memories of a Day 1 when I wouldn't hunt scum with a partial player list. >_>

Anyway...

I'm not a fan of the quick voting to L-1 and then backing down right after a claim. Possible scum in search of power roles. Additionally, the original vote post bothers me because it's basically following others' arguments with a little fluff on top to make it look original. A lot of words with not a lot of solid reasoning.

I didn't back down because of the claim; I backed down because of curiouskarmadog's tone. 83 and then 88 read like town frustration rather than faked anger.

Not that there's any way to prove it, but I wrote 79 as I was reading, and my responses to the quotes were made as I read the quoted posts. The impression that my arguments are unoriginal is the unfortunate consequence of me arriving at the scene after everyone else.

---

Okay. Gonna post this here for my reference:

nopointinactingup > SaintKerrigan > Vi > curiouskarmadog > VP Baltar > sottyrulez > Equinox

Unfortunately, that spectrum is more town-skewed than I'd like, so that's more NULL -> TOWN than the usual SCUM -> TOWN. <_<

Gonna go read a few games and see if I can pin down my reads on the first three on the list.

---

OH HAI. Preview edit.

how the fuck am I going to say that someone is absolutely town on page 1?

That was kind of the point of why I attacked you. >_> Never mind that, though.

I'll let sottyrulez answer your question before I touch on that.

[Equinox]

Those weren't fluff. I genuinely found those comments odd; the first looked like (and probably is) a qualifier/disclaimer to a joke when it wasn't necessary, and the second line posted at a point in the game when it was inappropriate, and when I saw it, it stuck out like a sore thumb.

I also find it weird that ckd has now shifted well up the list over his tone, but I guess that's a personal thing.

It is. I like reading tones. Seems to work.

[Equinox]

In short, running people up to lynch -1 without being serious about lynching them is scuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummy.

When I put curiouskarmadog at L-1, I was serious. What I had expected was curiouskarmadog answering the questions posed to him, which he did... though the claim fucked it up. I'd have unvoted him if he'd posted something like 83 and 88 even without the claim. Those two posts (and 92) scream frustrated town to me.

If I get lynched for this, well, yeah, I screwed up. My opinion does not change. I realize that if we run enough people up to L-1 (looks like I'm next?) that we throw the game to scum, but I still don't like the idea of lynching someone with serious town vibes just because they claimed VT -- shouldn't we be lynching scum instead?

Though the sudden kiss+make up between VPB and sottyrulez is kind of unsettling.

How was it unsettling? Seemed fine to me.

MOD: Is it too early to request a prod of nopointinactingup?

[Equinox]

I have only 5-10 minutes to say stuff, so... more later.

Add to that the sudden readjustment of ckd from top scum suspect to high on the town list and I have to ask serious questions if the vote was genuine in the first place.

I can see how that looks bad. It's how I constructed the spectrum: nopointinactingup and SaintKerrigan are null slots, Vi is a null-slightly-town slot... and we have CKD. I'm betting my own lynch CKD is town. Wouldn't make sense if I moved him down only a notch or two.

@Equinox - does ckd's tone nullify your other points that you claim he didn't answer and he claims are so BS he doesn't intend to answer?

Apparently, yes, or else I wouldn't have unvoted him.

Vi white-knighting me is O_O. Giving me flashbacks to sottyrulez's accusation of "voice of reason" earlier.

Come on man. This is silly, you put someone at lynch-1 what do you think happens next? Site meta is to get a claim if someone wants to hammer.

If someone requested a hammer on CKD, would I have unvoted...? Hmm. I don't know. What I do know is I was taught that people don't claim when they're at L-1 until someone asks for it. It's the expected play. Therefore, I expected responses from CKD at L-1, not a claim. Poor expectation? Probably. Does it make me scum?

No.

This is also awful. She unvotes in the very next post. SHE IS ALREADY LOOKING FOR AN EASY OUT ONCE CKD CLAIMS!

Incorrect. curiouskarmadog gave me what I wanted after I posted that, which was an explanation to his read of Vi and why he didn't comment on you and VP Baltar. He did that in post 92 to my satisfaction, so I unvoted. Context, please, not just isolation reading... You'd know that, though.

Shoot. I'm out of time. See you in a few hours.

[Equinox]

A quick post to respond and say some stuff that ran through my mind during a meeting. >_>;

Our position was that she was employing a tactic to rolefish, not making a "mistake."

She's played in

many games

and claiming is the freaking standard after lynch -1 in most mafia games. I'm certain Equinox is aware of that.

Funny... the more games I play, the scummier I seem to get. Experience ain't helping me.

That said. Yes, I am aware, as I have stated in 107, that claiming at L-1 is standard...

once someone has called for it

. The better practice is to have someone not on the bandwagon do that, but we've all seen the various L-1 circumstances where people have claimed when they shouldn't have. It doesn't change the fact that I walked in with an expectation that curiouskarmadog was not going to claim until someone asked him to. After all, this isn't a newbie game, and I argue that my expectation was a fair one given the player list.

The way she said it doesn't ring genuine. At all.

Because of my tone, or because of my actions? You pushed this case on what appears to be an isolation read of me -- you missed the fact that I unvoted curiouskarmadog after he gave me what I wanted. So, at best, your case is missing context, which makes this point you made here moot.

---

curiouskarmadog: You went on defensive mode on page 4, which is understandable, but as of post 100, you've gone back to "not ruffling feathers" except to tell me that the case I made on you was full of it. What are your stances? Getting attacked shouldn't preclude you from continuing to hunt scum... but you knew that.

sottyrulez: Would I be correct in assuming that today's posts were made by Sotty7?

Vi: Why mention that you change your mind "quickly and without warning"? Are you setting up 180s? Also... you stated in 104 that you didn't agree with my reason for voting CKD, and evidently you agree with my reason for unvoting CKD; however, your conclusion is that I'm town. Why?

For the record, I agree with sottyrulez that I'm the better lynch if, by the end of the day, it's still between me and CKD (just not for the same reason), but that is a terrible dichotomy they're presenting, mainly because I firmly believe/know that neither of those bandwagons are on mafia.

[Equinox]

Get well soon, SaintKerrigan!

I'd like to check the feasibility of an AwesomeTownBloc^TM consisting of myself, Equinox, and curiouskarmadog.

A semi-repeat of VP Baltar's question but going in a different direction: Are you more confident in your reads of CKD and me than, say, VP Baltar? Why?

And moving beyond the hyperbole of THAT statement, why isn't he even higher if you're that confident in him being town.

Because I was even more confident in my read of you and sottyrulez. The "betting my own lynch" statement ties to the below point.

Speaking of gear grinding...I ask again why in the heck you would want to be lynched over someone else if you know you're town?

Good question. My thought process at the time was if we lynched CKD as sottyrulez suggested previously, then we'd be handing over the game to scum as we've just set up their two mislynches. (This, of course, is based on my belief that CKD is town.) I figured that if, after arguing back and forth we were still on the CKD-or-Equinox dichotomy, it'd be better if we didn't save me for Day 2.

But then you bring up the point where I'm not as confident of CKD as I am of me... which makes me wonder if I was rational. Eh. >_> I guess we'll see at the end of the day. Definitely should hear from CKD first.

Do you recall who taught you this? That might help me out some here.

Uh, I'm pretty sure it was in one of my earlier newbie games. I'll go track it down.

Why does it matter?

Curiosity. Sounded like Sotty7 posting, rather than Zachrulez.

Oh, please. It was within a couple of hours and ckd really didn't respond to her points.

Actually, he did. I wanted to know why he didn't comment on sottyrulez-VP Baltar, and he said he didn't comment because he felt it was noise. (Now that I think about it, that's... a pretty odd thing to say. I'm gonna go do this other thing first and go back to that post.) I then wanted to know why he buddied up to Vi, and he explained that it was a gambit. I thought that + tone was satisfactory enough.

[Equinox]

VP Baltar: I've given up looking for who told me that advice about L-1 claiming... way too many games and way too vague of a memory. I'm starting to think I read it in MD... Anyway, I did state such an opinion before in a newbie game in July.

Vi: VP Baltar is town. I think you're town, but I have to meta you (as well as SaintKerrigan and NPAU; haven't gotten around to that yet). sottyrulez... is more of a mixed bag, now that I've run through an old game I played with Sotty7 (Newbie 960). I'm going to go reread their case on me with this memory in mind once this headache abates and make a decision then; if I were to say something now, though, I don't like how they've called an Equinox-Vi scum team. Partly because I know it's wrong. The other part is... I disagree with the logic of how they got there.

[Equinox]

MY WALL IS BIGGER THAN YOURS.

First wall: nopointinactingup

After all that build-up, post 137 is a pretty big disappointment.

His style has changed drastically from the last game. His former-game gambit suggested that he was eager to scum hunt at game beginning ( which is opposite from me actually =P ), while in this game he hardly makes an attempt to scum-hunt, resorting instead to mostly jokes and masochist-like comments while masking himself with votes on the inactives

tl;dr "CKD isn't playing like his meta, so he's probably scum."

First point of contention: "...which is opposite from me actually." Are you saying that you were unwilling to participate in the game initially? I understand that you had to go on V/LA for the greater part of the game day, so I apologize if I take your statement the wrong way. However, this piques my interest. Why?

Second point of contention: While I agree that CKD not using his town status to maximum advantage is quite worrying, you... seem to disagree with the assessment of the majority here. What about CKD's claim and subsequent posts do you not believe?

I see no clear-cut reason why she would think of let alone bring out something to mar her own case.

I like to think that I am reasonable and will consider all facets of the evidence presented to me. If I feel something potentially throws a wrench in my read of a player, I will say as much unless I'm bluffing my way for a reaction.

#88: CKD gave her something she wanted that doesn't make sense to me

This is in bolded green because I'm freaking awesome.

HOW DOES THIS NOT MAKE SENSE?! Isn't this the whole damn point of an interrogation?

You're stretching here, bud.

Neither 83 or 88 reveal signs of anger when I read it. I'm calling fluffs on this explanation.

Oh, so the cussing and the ABSOLUTE RAGE in 83, 88, and 92 were completely lost on you...? Sorry. I am not buying that.

Here's a protip: When someone references a post, maybe you shouldn't be skimming them.

First, Equinox came in and L-1 CKD

forcing a claim on CKD

. Then, as if her unvoting wasn't scummy enough, she threw CKD at the middle of her spectrum at the town side with no explanation for why Vi looks worse or why CKD suddenly earned so much town cred.

Dude. You haven't been reading, have you? I have explained the L-1 and the claim. I have explained how my spectrum works.

+ Second, Equinox in my book likes playing town much more than she would be playing scum. Thus, her hesitance for a scum read makes me believe that she is in fact speaking from her own knowledge and perspective.

The logic the witness is presenting here is

absolute garbage

faulty.

Whether or not I like an alignment absolutely has no bearing on how I read players. A does not lead to B, which cannot lead to C.

tl;dr

Thank you, sir, for your participation, for you have helped me find the mafia, and his name is

nopointinactingup

.

VOTE: nopointinactingup

Now I will address sottyrulez's megaposts.

[Equinox]

Still getting bigger...

Second wall: sottyrulez

, part 1

(I'm reserving my comments on sottyrulez-Vi until I've reread later today. Everything else I've promised to do for this game will wait until that is finished.)

The fact is Equinox put CKD at lynch -1. Site meta dictates, that if you don't want a claim or a lynch DON'T PUT SOMEONE AT LYNCH -1. I know this, Vi knows this, Equinox knows this.

Yeah. Yeah, I know claims come into play at L-1.

But I had just made the argument that I had a fair expectation out of putting CKD at L-1 that does not involve CKD claiming.

Did you skip post 135?

We agree that this is an elite player list, yet for some reason we can't agree that we hold HIGHER EXPECTATIONS of such experienced players. A leads to B, don't you think?

Yet she unvotes for tone. It was too easy, she clearly wasn't committed to her vote. Why?

That was by no means an easy decision. It took more than one post from CKD before I could decide to stamp "TOWNIE" on him and let him go, but I was already wavering by post 87 because of how CKD had reacted.

I present Newbie 960 as evidence that my behavior towards CKD in this game matches my town meta.

Yeah, "meta sucks," etc., etc. (Blatantly stolen from CKD.) In that game, I reread more than several pages to get reads on Day 1 because Sotty7 wasn't happy that I was fence-sitting. My conclusion was that NomDePlume was scum, and I'd built a pretty big case for that. NDP presented a one-post rebuttal, after which I felt my case was poorly founded and I dropped it.

The fact that Sotty7 has missed this part AND THEN PRESENTED THE GAME AS EVIDENCE makes me wonder if she isn't simply pushing.

Keep in mind that this presentation of evidence has no bearing on my future behavior! I am citing the past, not the future.

Vi knows the set up. She knows how this works and yet no bad words for Equinox at all in her first reaction post.

I had asked Vi about this as well. Vi explained it to my satisfaction in post 108, and Vi has continued to cement this in further posts. I do not think those posts qualify for the "For No Reason" category of defending.

It is my belief that scum are much more likely to unvote at townie when they are at lynch-1 because they know the claim to be true.

This is what Equinox did.

This is the main reason we find her scummy.

I agree with this assessment, and I have scum seen do such things. However, I have also seen town do it (never mind that I do it often enough) because

it's better to lynch scum

. Always.

Equinox's original vote on CKD was pretty weak. She padded the case a little and spent time agreeing with what other people said. Also lets not forget what happened in the first game. The idea of a quick hammer couldn't be dismissed. Yet Equinox voted anyway

Yes, there was a quick hammer in the first game. Therefore, I had a REASONABLE expectation that you lot wouldn't repeat that mistake.

What about this expectation rings unreasonable to you?

I don't believe anyone who thinks that Equinox didn't know what was going to happen next. Pretty sure she didn't expect the claim to come so quick, but she knew it was the next step.

Yes, it was the next step... if someone had asked. (Which suddenly brings to mind VP Baltar... more on this later, as it's separate from the issue at hand.) Would I have unvoted CKD if someone had asked? I don't know. However,

I would have unvoted CKD if he'd posted 83 WITHOUT a claim

. (Zachrulez, you recognize the red and what it means, correct? I still keep to that policy.)

There is a disconnect here. What was in post 88 that gave Equinox what she wanted? I don't see anything at all. Hell, she is still questioning him in her unvote post, I don't get it at all. It looks bad, there is no reasoning that I can see. Plus she didn't explain why, why no transparency?

The questioning was in a different direction following the unvote. The first question was to question CKD's judgment, not to discern CKD's alignment (as my previous questions were). The second sentence was a response to CKD, not a question.

Asking pointless questions like who was posting in our hydra, for no reason.

That question was not for no reason.

Just because I ask and then not follow up does not mean that I ask it for fun. We went over the operation of your hydra in the first game, where you admitted that you did the majority of the posting because you were better at being scum. I felt this aspect of your meta was one of those things you can't really remedy, which was why I asked who was posting for future reference.

Unfortunately, now I don't think I can ask this question again, so I'll just happily rely on "tone" and meta.

Sotty7... I know you have a tendency to tunnel (coughnewbie960cough), but the confirmation bias WRT me is getting ridiculous.

tl;dr

WITH INDICATORS FOR YOU SKEPTICS:

Scum

: nopointinactingup [scum] > SaintKerrigan [null] > Vi > sottyrulez [town] > curiouskarmadog > VP Baltar > Equinox

OH LOOK COMPLETE TRANSPARENCY:

Refer to case for nopointinactingup's NEW placement. Yeah, he's still first, but that IS a new placement.
sottyrulez and CKD are roughly equal in the spectrum.

Oh... jeez. More posts. This is big enough, so I'm splitting.

[Equinox]

The happy interstitial wall for nopointinactingup

More accurately put, CKD is not playing like his meta, so I have a definite suspicion on him.

Agreed that if someone is playing inconsistent to their meta is suspicious. However, you've managed to ignore (what I feel is) most of his

in-game, PRESENT

play in favor of using meta as a basis for your scum read of him. Meta is but a supplement!

To your points that I am digressing: Funny, I asked you those because how you approached those issues was suspicious, and I wanted a response from you. Calling my points BS worked for CKD. IT DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU, SO STOP DODGING.

If you are still considering the facets and such, why the quick L-1 vote? Your backpedalling suggests that you are uncertain about CKD yet you leave your vote at L-1.

I had considered all of the evidence when I put CKD at L-1. I considered MORE evidence that CKD posted following the vote and then unvoted. This again proves you are not reading.

Ok. I see what you might have been thinking, but such quick change of heart still incriminates you.

Don't backpedal, hypocrite. What about the interrogation and my behavior following the results of said interrogation did not make sense to you?

So your sole reasoning for strongly believing in CKD-town is him being frustrated?

YES.

It's not logic, more of a feeling on how you would read other players.

lol "it's not logic"

Overall, scum are more hesitant to read people, yes. I will even ADMIT that I do that to some degree as scum.

But what I will not do is make up a scum read when I don't have one. As either faction. Null tell for you.

I'll give you one post to undo your scummy OGMUS.

ITT nopointinactingup realizes I have a case on him and resorts to using buzzwords to discredit it. There's a thread in MD that's totally relevant to this, but I'm too lazy to look.

I will need St.K's input to reevaluate my read.

Read. In the SINGULAR.

Why do you need SaintKerrigan's input to get a firm read on... Equinox? Feeling helpless already?

Okay, back to sottyrulez-Vi.

[Equinox]

Posting this wall first and then my second, smaller wall.

nopointinactingup

• I was not digressing.
  You are dodging.
  Now answer the damn questions.
• Well, obviously the evidence behind my CKD read wasn't convincing enough for you, or else you'd read CKD as town, too.
• ITT nopointinactingup piggy-backs sottyrulez. Nice try, NPAU; my interrogation is not for theatrics.

Actually, I correct my previous statement.

ITT NPAU continues to fail. Here is why.

I doubt you have no definite suspicion after that much discussion.

sottyrulez was town.
VP Baltar was town.
Vi was town-ish.
SaintKerrigan did not offer any stances for me to analyze, so null.
NPAU was up, up, and awaaaaaayyyyyy. So null.

Who said I had to get scum reads from an argument? SOMETIMES TOWNSPEOPLE BICKER. NEWSFLASH.

Look at your "case". There's nothing in there that Implies that I'm scum. It would be natural for you to OGMUS I suppose so I'm only giving you a chance to look back. If you don't, I'll take it as declaration of war and gear myself up for tunneling mode.

1. You dodge questions. Instead of just answering them like a good little townie and then questioning my motivation for asking, you outright deny the questions and deny the rest of your fellow townsfolk transparency.
   PRO-SCUM MOTIVATION
2. You backpedaled when I confronted you about a portion of your case.
   You are merely piggy-backing a case already made by sottyrulez and therefore cannot explain that particular part of your suspicion.

   PRO-SCUM MOTIVATION
3. You have shown REPEATEDLY IN YOUR FIRST WALL that you did not read. What is it that scum do when they see walls made by townies. THEY SKIP THEM. LOLOL.
   ANTI-TOWN ACTION
   which doesn't help your case because you already have scum points!

I need St.K's input to figure out the likeliest scum team. Don't feel so self-centered.

I'm a narcissistic jerk. Deal with it.

You do not need SaintKerrigan's input to get reads. The rest of us were able to get town, null, and (YES AND) scum reads.

Why can't you? Too reluctant?

[Equinox]

Vi was town-ish.

Correction. IIRC Vi didn't offer too much by way to stances, either, so null.

[Equinox]

Third not-really-a-wall: Nobody in particular

(now it's actually the fourth with my response to NPAU but eh)

First, the digression

Yes, it was the next step... if someone had asked. (Which suddenly brings to mind VP Baltar... more on this later, as it's separate from the issue at hand.)

curiouskarmadog, how did you read VP Baltar's post 80 when you first read it?

Of course if Equionx does flip town we will take a long hard look at our thoughts on you.

Might as well do that now... because that is how I'm going to flip.

---

Reading sottyrulez's latest makes me think I should make up a summary for myself while rereading. Yeah, I'll do that -- because now I've lost track of where the sottyrulez <-> Vi mud is going and where VP Baltar -> sottyrulez is coming from.

But in all seriousness, I'm less sold on you-scum as much as you-deadwrong.

Would I be correct in assuming that you have a town read on sottyrulez, then? If that is the case, why are we still arguing over this?

[Equinox]

Guys, you do realize that the more walls of text you post, the longer it's going to take me to parse and digest them, and the longer it's going to take for me to actually post what I think about all of them, right?

Sorry. Maybe post as you go?

nopointinactingup

Why, yes, I enjoy being colorful. Now why are you so reluctant to go back and fetch the questions yourself? Reading my OH VERY ACCURATE WALLS getting too painful for you? I've been there, too, you know.

Here, act of mercy:

His style has changed drastically from the last game. His former-game gambit suggested that he was eager to scum hunt at game beginning ( which is opposite from me actually =P ), while in this game he hardly makes an attempt to scum-hunt, resorting instead to mostly jokes and masochist-like comments while masking himself with votes on the inactives

tl;dr "CKD isn't playing like his meta, so he's probably scum."

First point of contention: "...which is opposite from me actually." Are you saying that you were unwilling to participate in the game initially? I understand that you had to go on V/LA for the greater part of the game day, so I apologize if I take your statement the wrong way. However, this piques my interest. Why?

Second point of contention: While I agree that CKD not using his town status to maximum advantage is quite worrying, you... seem to disagree with the assessment of the majority here. What about CKD's claim and subsequent posts do you not believe?

---

The way I see it, our perception of one person changes with our perception of another given the knowledge that there are two scums. For example, if you had really thought Sotty, VP, Vi was town you would have automatically have scum read on St.K and NPAU. The fact that you had no scum read at that time questions the genuineness of your town reads.

Psst. We left out CKD.

I do not use process of elimination on Day 1. Only overconfident fools do that. Now, I may have a town read on someone, but I won't stamp scum reads on someone just because I have X out of Y town reads; someone has to, you know,

actually be scummy

.

Well, obviously the evidence behind my CKD read wasn't convincing enough for you, or else you'd read CKD as town, too.

Implying?

That your point that I was being "theatrical" about my read of CKD is bullshit. Not to mention easily disproven by the fact that you didn't find that evidence convincing in the first place, which means any conclusions contrary to yours that I drew wouldn't have felt genuine.

Now, I didn't backpedal with my read of CKD. I got a new read given new evidence. See, that's not the same as your situation; you just put your hands in the air when I shot at you, and I didn't even bring any evidence to the table. That, my friend, is backpedaling. Nice to meet you, too, Pot.

No because I look for scum teams, not solely scum. If St.K looks scummy for example, it would further disprove my case against Equi/CKD.

I almost yelled at you for looking for scum teams without getting a flip first, but you weren't the first to do that.

We're ALL waiting on SaintKerrigan. What we are not doing is discounting our reads just because he isn't here. You, however, did.

At this point, I do have agree that Equinox's clarification make some sense. Whether or not she actually intends to force a claim on CKD is also dubious. I will need St.K's input to reevaluate my read.

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

But in all seriousness, I'm less sold on you-scum as much as you-deadwrong.

Would I be correct in assuming that you have a town read on sottyrulez, then? If that is the case, why are we still arguing over this?

It's plausible that they could be Town

in spite of the extreme badness

of their case on you/me.

I

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s

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s

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.

My question was your stance regarding sottyrulez. "It's plausible that they could be town" doesn't cut it. Are they or are they not? Why is your vote still on sottyrulez?

[Equinox]

@Vi: I think it has both merits and flaws.

That's a very interesting answer. Elaborate.

[Equinox]

Do the merits outweigh the flaws?

[Equinox]

Sorry. ;_;

[Equinox]

I may have overdone it with the colors. I was shooting for red = true, blue = argument, green = question... but yeah. I won't do that anymore. >_>

[Equinox]

@Equinox: If you've seen Umineko, you're the only one

<===

Also, no comments on NPAU?

[Equinox]

Yay! Meta me! I've done this as town, so it's a town tell!

Nope. Null tell. You've been using it as a scum tell, so I'm presenting that I've done it before to show that it's not necessarily a scum tell.

Sure, you can say the situation doesn't really apply because it wasn't an L-1, BUT it does apply when you claim my case wasn't genuine because I dropped my case

so quickly

. I do it often enough that it's a null tell for me.

I've also already presented my past and present views about L-1 claiming, which should explain the position I was holding at the time of my CKD L-1 vote. But if reading that causes too much cognitive dissonance for you...

Also still waiting on ckd to check in with actual content or confirm that he's not going to post anything enlightening for the rest of the Day.

To be fair, there's way too many walls. (And... uh, some of that is my fault.)

[Equinox]

I personally still don't like the fact that you did it here in a situation where you put a vote on that actually

turned out to be weak

, because you unvoted easily,

This is incorrect. I had a case against CKD, and CKD's response trumped the case. It doesn't make the case weak. (I suppose this opinion comes from our disagreement on how to read CKD's posts following the claim, though.)

[Equinox]

If a single response can incline you to unvote, your reasoning for said vote is NOT strong.

Why do you keep insisting it was a

single

response? CKD responded to me more than once (twice, actually, but still).

[Equinox]

Not really semantics. I'll respond to this allegation as well as make an overall defense of what I did regarding CKD for the last time, and then I'm not going to address this anymore. Tired of beating the dead horse to something that is beyond death.

I can understand thinking that my case was weak if I'd dropped it completely after post 83, but I didn't. Sure, I had second thoughts and said as much when responding to VP Baltar (mainly because of how CKD reacted), and I only mentioned unvoting because CKD did:

would someone at least unvote me, so we can get a little more information out of the day?

If CKD had chosen to not answer regarding his buddying to Vi, which was the crux of my suspicion against him, I would not have unvoted. CKD answered in post 88, and I felt with the frustration he was exhibiting in 83 and 88 that he was making a townish response to being put at L-1.

To be specific: If mafia get to L-1, they're more likely to be calm about it because the case against them is largely correct. If town get to L-1 and for reasons they feel are stupid, they're going to get mad. Can scum fake their anger? Of course. However, I felt that CKD was being genuine. (I still believe he's town, but I have reservations until he posts content again.)

tl;dr I don't take that as one response from CKD but two, but I suppose we can agree to disagree on this one.

[Equinox]

V/LA until October 20

Responses when I get back.

[Equinox]

Equinox apparently has enough time to post multiple times in another game, but apparently not enough time to post here.

I've been watching her activity today like a hawk. We're waiting for her response to our previous posts.

Apparently, you weren't paying enough attention. Not only did my sig say, "I only have time for one-liners," but that is also the one game where I don't need to read long posts to catch up. I haven't been posting anywhere else. /ongoinggamelulz

Okay, I will catch up here momentarily. Got a couple of other things to take care of first.

[Equinox]

Crap. Those "couple of other things" have eaten up my morning.

I have class, so I'll catch up in this thread when I get home in 5 hours. Sorry.

[Equinox]

That isn't going to change anything, sottyrulez. I'm not dodging this thread. I put this game last on my priority list today for reasons I can't explain without getting modkilled. I will gladly explain my behavior on October 20 as soon as I am able, but right now that is not possible.

Look, if you don't believe that I won't be home for 5 hours, I will post my syllabus and a Google Map to prove this to you, but I can't guarantee any level of civility if I am forced to do that.

Preview edit: Fine, I'll answer 213, AND 213 ALONE, until I get home to tide you over.

[Equinox]

Equinox

MY WALL IS BIGGER THAN YOURS.

First wall: nopointinactingup

After all that build-up, post 137 is a pretty big disappointment.

His style has changed drastically from the last game. His former-game gambit suggested that he was eager to scum hunt at game beginning ( which is opposite from me actually =P ), while in this game he hardly makes an attempt to scum-hunt, resorting instead to mostly jokes and masochist-like comments while masking himself with votes on the inactives

tl;dr "CKD isn't playing like his meta, so he's probably scum."

First point of contention: "...which is opposite from me actually." Are you saying that you were unwilling to participate in the game initially? I understand that you had to go on V/LA for the greater part of the game day, so I apologize if I take your statement the wrong way. However, this piques my interest. Why?

Second point of contention: While I agree that CKD not using his town status to maximum advantage is quite worrying, you... seem to disagree with the assessment of the majority here. What about CKD's claim and subsequent posts do you not believe?

Can you explain exactly what you are trying to say in the second point of contention? I want to know what you were thinking at the time if possible.

First point of my "second point of contention": Since the pressure was laid off him, CKD was lurking/inactive. My position was that if someone is widely considered to be town, they should exploit that (regardless of their actual faction) by posting their opinions. CKD was not doing that, and that was beginning to bother me.

Second point of my "second point of contention": nopointinactingup suspected CKD, and I wanted to know what he thought of CKD's claim. I thought it was odd that he'd write off something that I'd gotten such a strong town read from.

There, the game can go on. If you'll excuse me, I have to actually gather my school supplies, drive to school, and attend class. After that, I have to drive back home, turn on my computer, read the damn thread, and then get my activity here back. If you do not like waiting for all of this, then I'd be happy to skip the part where I get modkilled for raging and just replace out.

Thank you for your patience. Have a nice day.

Preview edit: Someone complained about too many anime avatars. I obliged.

[Equinox]

(I'm in class. Good job on making me miss important stuff for this.)

That is not a slip. CKD has town status. How have I determined this? In case you've missed all the times I've called CKD town while defending myself (which I'm sure you have),

I firmly believe CKD is town

. Firmly. Believe. Is that certainty going to affect how I treat him? Yes, it will.

---

Frankly, defending my L-1/unvote over and over again and having it fall on deaf ears has gotten so old and wrinkly I'm surprised it's not 6 feet under yet. Actually, I think it's buried now, but I don't feel like wasting more class time to check this, so I'll find out when I get home.

Therefore, I'm going to explain what I'm doing from now on. If sottyrulez or anyone else pushes post 250 as their case against me, I'm just going to link you/them to this post, and that's it. If I get lynched for that, I don't think I'm going to be very upset about it; it's hard to care for a game where someone just nearly called my V/LA illegitimate or decided to call every fucking thing I do as scum-motivated.

I'm not mafia. I'm town.

That's it.

For the sake of not simply ditching everyone else, I will read, catch up, post thoughts, whatever. But if you attack me, I probably won't care anymore; it's getting bad for my health, kthx.

Pre-empting "OMG EQUISCUM HAS GIVEN UP." Yes, yes, I have. Have fun.

[Equinox]

I have returned home, sooner than I expected. I will start reading from where I left off now, so hang tight.

I promised I'd do a reread soon for something about sottyrulez and/or Vi. I don't remember which one or if it was both. The V/LA has put a damper on things, so that will have to wait (yet again) until I'm done catching up here and then writing a paper that's due tomorrow morning. Sleep has higher priority than Mafia, so if I don't make it today, well sorry, deal with it.

I remembered this while I was listening to a lecture on effect sizes (wheee):

Pretty sure CKD wasn't widely considered town at this point. Nice side step attempt, but I think you slipped here.

As I recall: Equinox, Vi, and VP Baltar. You unvoted him, too, in favor of voting for me. I think it's fair to consider that "wide" given the size of this player list.

[Equinox]

From a quick skim...

it's hard to care for a game where someone just nearly called my V/LA illegitimate or

decided to call every fucking thing I do as scum-motivated

.

Turns out the bold portion wasn't too far from the truth.

Why am I not surprised.

You know what pisses me off more? I have a strong town read on sottyrulez, and it's really not encouraging to see someone like that just bashbashbashbash on me when I know their case has been dead-wrong. All effing day.

Call this post "rhetoric" AFTER I flip, please. Thanks.

It still doesn't make sense why you said what you said in 147 the way you did.

I also can't remember if VP has actually taken a position on CKD.

I'm pretty sure he did? I'll find out, I suppose.

Also, I think you quoted it wrong. Your first comment makes more sense if you're pointing to my whole "town status" thing.

Let's say it was the "town status" thing. It makes perfect sense to me. Sorry if it doesn't to you. I can't help that part.
Let's say it was the comment you quoted there. It still makes perfect sense to me. 4/7? Can't call that insignificant. (And if I was wrong about VP Baltar, it's still 3/7. Still not insignificant.)

[Equinox]

Something just occurred to me. This is specifically for Zachrulez.

When you accused me of thread-dodging, were you thinking of Newbie 972?

[Equinox]

I also have no idea why you're bringing that game up now.

Because I

just

remembered it, and that you modded it. I thought you might have remembered that I lurked and then thought that I was doing the same here.

This is not what happened. You were V/LA up until yesterday. You spent YESTERDAY AND TODAY posting in another game while not posting in this one. It is well without our rights to point this out, especially as we've been essentially waiting for your input the whole time. You could have made a courtesy post after your V/LA was scheduled to end, but you waited until we called you out to say anything.

You're right. I probably should have made some sort of post saying, "Hey, guys, I'm still V/LA but I'm posting in this other game 'cuz [REDACTED]." I didn't do it for my other-other game, either, and you could have noticed, since you were watching me "like a hawk." Like a hawk does not miss the fact that my posts on October 19 were only in one thread. Like a hawk does not miss the fact that my afternoon October 18 post was an egosearch post.

I will gladly, gladly, GLADLY, tell you why I felt the need to post in that one game while V/LA. Absolutely gladly, and then you'll (or I'm hoping you would, anyway, as reasonable people) realize why I did it and why I felt I could do it. Just let that game end first.

"[Y]ou waited until we called you out to say anything." No, that was coincidental. (Well, fuck my timing, I guess. This isn't the first time.) If you were watching "like a hawk," you probably would have noticed that

I had just finished

with catching up in my second game. This one was the third.

Not to mention when I brought up the reason for needing to delay my thoughts for this thread, a reason which is pretty much out of my control and one that is valid, you voted me, implying you didn't believe me. I think I have a reason to be royally pissed.

[Equinox]

Like a hawk does not miss the fact that my posts on October 19 were only in one thread.

I just looked that up. I posted on October 20, not October 19. I thought that was weird.

[Equinox]

6:57 PM. Equinox finally musters willpower to read.

7:02 PM. Equinox realizes spreadsheet hasn't been updated for 9 days (post 13). Probably should do that now for VC analysis, if it means anything.

7:16 PM. Equinox finds where she left off, post 202.

7:18 PM. Spreadsheet is finished. For a 10-page game, there have been only 21 votes so far. Disappointing.

8:11 PM. Breaking up the drivel.

---

Disclaimer: I have not re-read post 168 (don't remember if I read it at all, lol), so if I'm ignoring SaintKerrigan here, that's why. I will go back and do that after this, assuming it isn't too late and I have to write a paper. (And if it is too late, you guys get to wait until late Saturday. How exciting.)

i am skimming...you will get it when you get it...this one is second in line (have a 3rd one too)...

if you have an issue with that and think I am scummy for it...lynch me.

As I understand it, they're only requesting content, not calling for your blood because you're not delivering. (Yet.) Why did you feel the need to say this? ...and then include it in your sig?

Actually, I'll restate it so people don't go "OMG FLUFFY QUESTION." Why did you go on the defensive?

curious vi, when should I have claimed? You can shake your finger all you want, but you just avoided lynching town.

CKD, how did you read VP Baltar's post 80? Thoughts you had at the time would be helpful.

One, we admitted no such thing in the last game.

Oh, you didn't? I swear I saw it somewhere; it was a very memorable post. I'll look for that later.

Secondly, if this was your reasoning for asking this question why did you not say so when I asked you? You can't be outraged at something you don't post in thread, I'm not a mind reader. Yet at least.[/url]

You're right; my outrage was probably not within my right in that situation because the whole point was for you to not recognize the reason I asked it. I explained in post 150 why I didn't explain the first time; the whole point was that you weren't a mind reader, and I thought the question was innocent enough that sottyrulez-scum might miss it, and I could easily find this out if Sotty7 posted significantly more than Zachrulez. If Sotty7 and Zachrulez were closer to 50-50 or Zachrulez posted more, then I could possibly put you (further) in the town slot. The fact that I had explain it kind of killed the purpose... and then now, with your denial that you ever said anything about your hydra's posting activity, I'm second-guessing the validity of that move at all.

Not that it matters. I have strong reason to believe you're not scum... and no, it's not because I'm scum.

FTR we weren't tunneling.

Do you think tunneling is a town or a scum tell?

Sotty7 said that in Newbie 960, too. I guess "tunneling" is the wrong word, but what you're doing here versus 960 doesn't look all that different to me.

If I had to be perfectly honest with myself... town tell. Scum by nature need to leave wiggle-room and therefore will consider "all the possibilities." Tunneling prevents this, and if a bandwagon on someone else forms, they can't join it without risking a lot of fire.

A lot of Equinox's color posts were heavy on the rhetoric. I started to feel like I was reading a political smear thread. Not pleasant.

Funny you mention this. I think I had a couple of election leaflets on the table when I wrote those. (You folks in California who've seen at least 15 minutes of TV will appreciate this one.)

But seriously. I use rhetoric. As both town and scum. There's logic in there, too, but I don't blame you for missing it.

If we thought it was scummy, we would have said so.

Oh, yeah. Why didn't you find it scummy? (I'm too lazy/caught-up to verify this. Remind me to check later if I forget.)

tl;dr

I ask CKD and sottyrulez some questions and do some explaining. The REAL point, however, is to make sure CKD doesn't miss the following question because I need the answer to it, pronto:

"CKD, how did you read VP Baltar's post 80? Thoughts you had at the time would be helpful."

I'm going to continue reading now. The things I'm sacrificing for this game.

[Equinox]

Apparently, I cannot type or edit. I found a number of grammatical errors and typos in that post... oh, well.

He dodged questions? I missed that. Can you direct me to the post in question?

NPAU said I was "digressing" and outright refused to answer them, and I called him out on it for not being transparent. IIRC, he eventually answered one of them and never answered the second one.

npau: lol ckd and Equinox are scum
Equinox: NUH-UH
npau: well okay you might be scum, i'll wait for sk
Equinox: NUH-UH
npau: shut up i'm waiting for sk
Everyone: WHY
npau: i like calling the team
Vi: WHAT WOULD SK CHANGE
npau: if i don't like my equinox case at some point i'll unvote
Vi: and do what
npau: ...
Vi: *cough*
npau: meh (210)

I chuckled. Thanks for that, Vi.

To address the finer points of that post...

Vi reads Equinox's mind sometimes.
Vi misinterpreting VP Baltar's comment is MOST INTERESTING and pings the psychological part of my scumdar.

how did my play style work out last game?...I also had a power role then too....this posting seems awful narrow minded. Also, could there be any other reason I am acting this way?....can you think of any reason my I brought my change in playstyle up earlier in the thread?

How should I know @@.

A clear possibility is because you have different alignment this time around.

Bolded part: Aw, man. <facepalm.jpg>

Other part: CKD just asked you to consider other possibilities. You didn't do that. Why?

Notice that Equinox and ckd are necessarily scum together.

So ?

I hope you're fucking joking, NPAU. Really. My bigger hope is that you'll flip scum, but I suppose I'll have to wait on that one.

If I was making a scum to town list immediately, it would read [SK, Sottyrulez], nopoint, Equinox, Vi, Ckd.

Uh... I can't think of any other way to word this.

Why is sottyrulez that high on your list?

Yay. I'm caught up. I need to put a rain check on my spectrum (more like top X suspects now) until I've calmed down from some NPAU-hate. That post REALLY bugged me.

Oh, and if I get called scum for that small little delay, I think you guys know how I'm going to respond. So don't waste your breath -- just wait.

[Equinox]

EBWOP: As a courtesy warning, I'm busy all day on Friday, so I'll only post if it's something that doesn't require rereading. If I don't finish Friday, my business will carry over to Saturday morning. Therefore, Saturday evening is the earliest you can expect the results of any promised rereads.

Things I've promised to do (more for my sake than yours, but if you have any additions, they are welcome with the understanding I don't guarantee promptness or priority):

• Look over the post-game of the first Open 250 for sottyrulez's comments regarding the hydra
• Look up sottyrulez's opinion of CKD following CKD's claim
• (Re?)read SaintKerrigan's 168 and subsequent posts
• Vi-meta
• NPAU-meta
• Reread sottyrulez-Vi spat
• CKD scum-meta and current meta

[Equinox]

And immedietely after we cast our vote, Equinox started posting like a mofo.

Looks like our frustration with her not being active in the game pressured her into being more active.

Or in other words, our vote had a pro-town effect... eh?

I had a post to make, but damn this pisses me off. I've put up with you being unreasonable for a good long portion of the day now because I really, really think you are terribly misguided town, but this... This is not something I am going to put up with.

sottyrulez, you are fucking unreasonable.

That is the only solid conclusion I can derive from this game, a conclusion stronger than any of my reads, including the read I have of my own alignment.

Fine, you had a valid reason to worry when you suddenly saw posting on October 20. I have admitted my mistake.

Did I not just promise you that I would fully explain this? Apparently, you skipped it. Did I not explain to you why I put this game

last

on my Mafia priority list when I returned on October 21? Did I also not explain to you why a full explanation was not possible? Apparently, you skipped those, too.

Because you got it in your head that YOU, THE ALMIGHTY POWERFUL HYDRA, CAUSED MY ACTIVITY TO SPIKE. Nothing that real life caused. Nothing that I caused. Man, you had me under your control all along.

I think I'm done with this game. As soon as I've calmed down, I'll start debating replacing out.

[Equinox]

MOD: Post 280 is possibly in violation of Rule 2; therefore, I request replacement. I will assist in finding a replacement for my slot.

I know I'm not going to feel very good leaving all this shit in the game for everyone else in the town to clean up, but personally, this game has caused me more problems than it's been worth. I'm sorry to the rest of you, but I don't think I can handle this and not go completely batshit insane. Actually, I might have gotten there already.

See you in post-game; I'm willing to eat all the criticism you want to throw at me then. Just as long as you're reasonable, I won't bite.

---

I said I had a post, and a post I shall make now.

Vi: You made a point that VP Baltar's "laziness" does not match his town meta. Do you find laziness to be a town tell or a scum tell?

nopointinactingup: If you don't see the problem behind your "So?" response to Vi, I'm sorry for being a jerk (kinda comes with the rage mode), but you have to ask that, you have a problem with tunnel vision. You're welcome.

curiouskarmadog: Post 135.

sottyrulez: Oh, sottyrulez. Explain to my replacement why you did not feel the need to question CKD's claim. If your answer is "tone," explain why you ragged on me for doing exactly the same thing. Post 135 will suffice as complete rebuttal to any accusation that includes "Equinox put CKD at L-1 with full knowledge of its implications."

[Equinox]

You honestly didn't think that I'd, you know, get mad when someone calls me a liar when I haven't been lying?

Re-evaluate the way you pressure people. It definitely didn't get you anything worthwhile in this game.

[Equinox]

I can handle being called a liar. I can handle being called scum. I thought I was doing a fine job of that.

What I do not appreciate are your insinuations that my V/LA was illegitimate when I have already tried to address you concerns you had for my posting activity on October 20 (and failed miserably thanks to gag rule), and then your later claim that you were the cause of my recent activity. Instead of something slightly more obvious... like my V/LA ending.

[Equinox]

I've been mulling this over after a few hours of being away from Mafia...

MOD: Sorry for changing my mind; I'm cancelling my replacement request. If you feel there's been a significant enough rule violation to warrant force-replacement, however, I will not object to your decision.

I concede that I was being unreasonable with sottyrulez from post 280 onward. While I'm still not happy that sottyrulez claimed responsibility for my recent return in activity, my explosion was uncalled for, and I apologize for that.

The situation surrounding my V/LA, etc., was crystal clear to me because I know I'm innocent of all the charges -- okay, probably not all of them, but alignment-based charges at least. I had the unfair expectation that others would see it the same way as I did if I'd "explained" it. Thinking this over, however, I don't have a reason to expect this because: 1) nobody knows my own alignment as well as I do, and it's well within your rights to question my motives until they become crystal clear through confirmation/flip, and 2) my explanations were, by necessity, less than clear.

tl;dr -- I'm sorry for spewing lava all over the place, and I apologize to sottyrulez for my rudeness and caustic behavior.

---

it is the game..if you cant handle that, you need to just quit playing the game

Handled it pretty well for 20+ games. Not sure why I couldn't handle it this time.

Unfortunately, I have to request replacement from the game. I have already PM'ed Jason and I'm currently seeking a replacement for myself. I will explain post-game why. I enjoyed playing with everyone and look forward to more games in the future.

Sorry to see you go, and I wish you good luck in your endeavors. Hope to see you around sometime.

---

I promised y'all scum hunting. As it stands, despite being a bit more clear-minded than I was before, I don't think I'm ready to dive in at this point yet, so I'm going to delay further responses to this thread for at least another day. I openly admit to thread-dodging.

[Equinox]

I skimmed. I don't have time to address the rest of this right now.

nopointinactingup, did you even read the thread. Post 135, now. I am getting REALLY TIRED REALLY FAST citing this damn post, so if you louts don't believe what I said in post 135, just say so and then I'll shut up.

Post #293: mmh, real frustration? Or a strategy to convey a feeling of real frustration?

I was pissed as shit. Thank you for your vote of confidence.

I'm not sure if I'm in favor of this mass claim anymore. I have something I want to happen today, but I gotta think over the rationality of this first before I say it in case it's incredibly stupid or something.

In other news, this game makes me want to punch cute fluffy things again.

[Equinox]

I've forgotten my manners. Welcome, lewarcher82.

I think I'll just say what's on my mind now, have you guys argue it out, etc.

Firstly, having read 302 and thought about the possibilities and stuff, I think I'm in favor of mass claiming. The reason why and the scenarios I have in mind, I will keep hidden. Just do it.

Secondly, lynch Equinox today. Why? sottyrulez and VP Baltar's slot apparently pegged scum reads on me; those two are the strongest town reads I have in this game, and while I disagree with their judgment (for obvious reasons), I think that means I'm going to be enough of a distraction to help scum win if I don't get lynched today.

Someone might say, "Well, why have us lynch someone you

know

to be town and not scum?" If we lynch scum today, that's awesome. Maybe even a miracle. However, I get the sense that town is pretty disorganized here. Punt this game to LyLo; you'll start agreeing on stuff more. Further, regardless of whether you lynch town or scum today, I have a feeling that, given what I've done so far, we'll end up arguing over this again on Day 2. I'd rather have you lot bicker over another slot.

I am serious about this. No drama, no theatrics, no gimmicks. The only thing I am not going to do is vote myself because I want to force you into doing that instead. (Sotty7 is probably familiar with me pulling this move. I was serious then, and I'm serious now.)

Discuss.

PS: lewarcher82, post 135, now. Yeah, click on the link; it's only a short passage to read. Now come back and tell me I had scum motivation for putting CKD at L-1. Keep in mind my opinion of the player list.

[Equinox]

I was talking about lewarcher82, though.

[Equinox]

Don't people read things anymore?

NPAU: the inability of identifying a reasonable partner for Equinox (assuming Equi really is scum) is my biggest issue.

BECAUSE I'M NOT SCUM.

Why the fuck are people looking for partners without flips.

Also, lewarcher82, if you're looking for my partner, where the hell is your vote?

[Equinox]

actually, i am against the claim, can someone please point out to me the post where someone explained why claiming at this point was a good idea?

Here you go.

[Equinox]

Why the fuck are people looking for partners without flips.

Also, lewarcher82, if you're looking for my partner, where the hell is your vote?

And while I was looking for Vi's explanation, I came upon NPAU's question. Therefore, the first sentence is now directed at NPAU, not lewarcher82.

The second question is more iffy since it's directed towards both NPAU and lewarcher82. I still recommend that lewarcher82 not waste his time on what he will (hopefully soon) discover is a fruitless exercise. I also wonder why he bothered to question VP Baltar's judgment.

[Equinox]

Unvote, Vote: Vi

Process of elimination on Day 1? Yes, I'm a hypocrite. curiouskarmadog, lewarcher82 (VP Baltar), and sottyrulez have given me reasons to give them very strong town reads. Elaboration available upon request. I'm willing to hedge a bet on Day 1 that nopointinactingup's claim is real, and with that assumption, I have enough to go on to get this game cracked open.

If you guys can't agree on this, well, you can lynch me first and then Vi and SaintKerrigan.

That mass claim did us some good. Get lynchin'.

[Equinox]

EBWOP: If it's not already apparent,

I am also in favor of stopping the mass claim

. I've done enough fishing for the day. Case appears to be solved now.

[Equinox]

(or be forever branded an emo kid)

TOO LATE

[Equinox]

Oh, look, I L-1'ed someone again. :O

There is strong scum motivation to quickhammer me while the scum knows who the Cop is, Town doesn't, and you don't know why I wanted to massclaim since like Page 5 or so.

Not happy that you went and said this. If you're town as you claim, for that last one.

[Equinox]

Vi, I'm pretty sure we can handle what happens tomorrow. Besides, this discussion has just killed whatever you were hoping to get out of a mass claim, assuming you had a pro-town purpose at all. I still object, and I object to the continuation of this conversation. Stop.

[Equinox]

@Equi: uhm, looks like you want a direct confrontation on the matter of why I am FoSing you. Here you go. 1: although your other game may explain how you put CKD at L-1 without expecting a claim, it is absolutely unclear why you unvoted so quickly (you did not expect a claim BUT you feared a hammer? This is a contraddiction).

Where did I say I feared a hammer? Never did I say that; curiouskarmadog did.

No, it is absolutely clear why I unvoted curiouskarmadog. I think I have repeated myself almost to death about this subject. I will say it again: curiouskarmadog's claim and his subsequent behavior fit the models of town behavior while at L-1, as I understand those models. If you look at his posts on page 3, he is an angry townie frustrated that he's been led to L-1 over what he feels are stupid accusations. Scum don't act like that, as the accusations are usually correct.

I will also note that I have seen scum fake anger over "stupid accusations." curiouskarmadog's behavior did not fit that model.

2: as I pointed out, not only some of us had the feeling that CKD couldn't possibly have answered your "questions" between your vote and your unvote, but even CKD denied he ever did. How do you explain this?

curiouskarmadog called my first two points against him "stupid," but he did answer my major point against him (i.e., his buddying to Vi).

1) where is my vote? Not voting right now. Why should I? We are, theoretically, in the middle of a chain of claims.

I asked you this question prior to the mass claim starting, I believe. You seemed so dead set on Equinox being scum, enough to answer NPAU's question about my so-called "partner."

2) why did I question the judgement of my predecessor? Hell, it's my job to do it, I am not him! Btw, I already explained that I think that, in post 138, he missed the basic problem of your unmotivated decision of unvoting CKD (see my wall, above).

I don't think he missed it. You, however, did. Sorry for being blunt.

[Equinox]

I believe sottyrulez over lewarcher82.

Unvote, Vote: lewarcher82

[Equinox]

I suspected as much.

Should I wait for SaintKerrigan and Equinox to claim before proceeding?

I'm pretty sure SaintKerrigan doesn't need to claim. He can just hang in the breeze tomorrow.

[Equinox]

EBWOS(pam): I'm surprised. I totally thought scum weren't going to fall for Vi's mass claim thing. This is much better than I expected.

Though I'm kinda sad now. I almost proxied my vote to VP Baltar around page 12 or so. My reads suck. q_q

[Equinox]

I have finally witnessed the reason behind Vi having that Scummy. That was epic. D:

And here we get to the heart of where you're (cut by Equinox:

still

) misunderstanding my intentions.

I totally did. Though this makes lewarcher82's claim that much more hilarious.

[Equinox]

Lynch lewarcher82... unless you're looking for a roleblocker. (Inconveniently, neither SaintKerrigan nor VP Baltar ever voted for the other. Don't know about their FoSing activity, though, since I didn't track that.)

[Equinox]

[Equinox]

I am not surprised.

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Equinox]

By the way, I'm sorry for suspecting you Equinox...

lol. No worries.

Oh, yeah. That reminds me. I don't think it's needed anymore, but about October 20... that game was in LyLo, and I really really really didn't want to lose that one, so I bit the bullet and posted there during class. It didn't require any reading and stuff, so I was able to post short one-liners there but not anywhere else.

[Equinox]

Scum got plowed. Haha.

[Equinox]

Equinox: Put your big girl pants on and get your avatar back. I'm being serious.

But I like my blood-red square.

I think "Ego wars" is a great title for this game

Fourthed.

Managed to get wrapped up in Equinox too much, newbie 960 all over again *sigh*.

Haha. You can't read me, it seems.

After some of Equinox's crazy posts I didn't think Equinox was scum any more

Spoiler: Comments on my AtE

The AtE was partly tactical, partly emotional reaction. curiouskarmadog, Sotty7, and Zachrulez are essentially correct that I can't handle pressure; I really need to work on that.

The reaction in 280 was, unfortunately, real at the time I wrote it. I'd rather not do that again... Next time I feel like going psycho, I'll actually take my own advice and go away from Mafia for a while. >_>

I've learned a lot in this game, and I'm glad I decided to stick it out to the end.

Thanks for modding this (again), jasonT1981!

I'm interested in drmyshottyizsik's comments, if he decides to come back.