Mini 1070 The Godfather:Hunt for Sollozzo (GAME!)

[Exilon]

OH HAI GAIZ.
I don't know if I can handle THREE games, but we'll see. Possibly not, but it's Andrius <3.

VOTE: Thor

He's scum with Farcry

. Discuss.
Btw, Andrius, if blue is anyone's color, feel free to change this^to navy. Kthx.

Also

/confirm

My role will never get me nightkilled unless I play extremely pro-town.
^

look out it's a trap-

No, you can use blue. I've only got red and black (and purple). -Andy

[Exilon]

The thing with 'DISCUSS' is that you try and find out why I said so. You're awful.
Also, you should be saying ' I do not agree' or 'I agree.'.

So why are you asking me why instead of stating what you think? GOT SOMETHING TO HIDE HUH
Good, we're making progress.~

[Exilon]

People have various ways to scumhunt and in early stages of the game, scumhunting is specially volatile. One of my favorite methods are crap-traps, and they often work to a good extent. :3

[Exilon]

I'm not denying you your methods, I'm saying I don't see the value added currently. Who are you applying your "GOT SOMETHING TO HIDE HUH" tell to? Who do you think ducked the question and why do you think that shows them having knowledge beyond what a town player would have?

You need to be sorted out I'm applying that 'got something to hide' to the players who instead of discussing, like say 'I agree', 'I don't agree.', are asking me WHY I made that assumption. Basically, I'm asking them to take a stance, and they were completely unable to or rather, unwilling to.

The 'crap-trap', so to speak, is not directed at identifying if someone has knowledge beyond a normal vanilla townie (not only scum has that, so it's pointless), but rather discover who's threading the ground instead of being direct and concise with what they say.

A scummy player, specially in RVS, avoids taking stances because the game is, precisely, volatile, since that may garner undesired atention if you flip-flop too much (scum has to be careful with 'whom' they suspect). Town doesn't have that problem, as they genuinely do not know who's town. See where I'm getting?

Therefore, and following that logic, this:

I also agree with Wingless that Exilon needs to exlain his reasons for suspecting Thor and Farcry before we can discuss.

, specially after this:

Why is Thor scum? And why is Farcry? You could posts the reasons too.

And this:

I would appreciate it if you could tell us why this is so.

Becomes scummy as heck. Points to note:
a)

Farcry's response is an exception, since he's obviously the one being accused. The most he could say is 'no', but I haven't stated 'why, so he can't answer. this point is also an answer to your response post, Farcry.

b) Bud only mentioned Wingless even though Farcry also stated the same thing as Wing.
c) Wing, before making his stance, asks me WHY I have that stance. Scum has a dire need of knowing the why's, town doesn't. (because) Scum has to fabricate suspicion, town doesn't. therefore, most often than not, you'll find scum agreeing with a case which seems good because it justifies their bandwagoning and makes them less suspicious. Bud follows suit. This suggests a unconsicous 'blend with the crowd' attittude.

---

Anyways, why are you not answering my question? Why are you asking for everyone to say something and then not saying something yourself? Are you waiting for something popular to come up so you can jump on it? You're playing typical scum behavior here.

If I were waiting for something popular, I wouldn't have stepped forward and claimed 'x and y is scum'. That is a) very risky move for scum, specially on early game, and b) DOING something which goes against the definition of 'waiting for something'.

But that's the things with crap-traps. They're part-crap, part good. However, there's a difference. While I'm being completely conscious about what I'm saying, besides making a claim that 'x and y is scum', the responses I got were not the same. In fact, they're actually devoid of any direct answer to that statement. To everything anyone says, other people have unconscious reactions which they are not aware of. And that's generally how scum slip, wich is what I was trying to scan. For instance:

Is the blue supposed to indicate anything specific?

Additionally,

what do you mean about the last sentence? Why are you talking about your role?

ROLEFISHING HUH
Why address this and not address the 'discuss' part? What is the town motivation to find a comment about one's own role more interesting than a 'x and y are scum' claim? Specially, because I wasn't the only one who commented on his own role after confirming. What is town's motivation to ask 'why are you talking about your role'?

---

I still don't know what Exilon was trying to accomplish with his thor/fc scumteam.

This.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bud

I have now stated my reasons, guys, YOU CAN NOW DISCUSS MY STATEMENT THAT THEY'RE SCUM.
GO.

[Exilon]

*cracks with laughter*

So that means that somebody who says "Yes! Lynch FC & vote vote vote!" is town, while somebody who asks for the reasons behind the accusations is scum.

Nope, that's not what I said. You either agree or don't agree with me; in any case, asking why without any further content doesn't really serve a purpose. I obviously have my reasons for saying that, and actually, I already outed them. Read again.

Assume for a moment that I'm scum, and assume that far-cry is town. I know far-cry is town, so I want him lynched. When some one comes up and says that far cry is scum, I want to support that person, regardless of his reasons. In this case, I would be town according to your trap but in actualitiy I would be scum. /end assumption

Now assume that I'm town and I don't know what far-cry is. Some one (i.e. you) just comes out of the blue and says that far-cry is scum. What do I want as town? More information. I'd ask what his reasons were for saying that

far-cry is town

. /end what actually happened

First part is pure WIFOM, second part shows you admitting to be a bit anti-town. Instead of finding your own reasons to agree or disagree with me, ergo taking the initiative, you prefer to lay back a bit.

Also the bolded part; nice typo.

Of course, the person who does go on a murderous rampage could just be a village idiot, or the person who asks for info could be diplomatic scum, but we're venturing into WIFOM terrirtory here. Looks like I caught the "crap" in your trap

Yes, WIFOM. And yes, that's part of the crap.

Do you actually think those two are scum, or did you just pick them arbitrarily?/

AND YOU'RE STILL TRYING TO GET ME TO STATE REASONS BEFORE YOU DARE COME UP WITH YOUR OWN.
Also, read again. I did not pick them arbitrarily. I stated I didn't, and I stated I had reasons, and I even already stated them, and I EVEN TOLD PEOPLE IN BOLD I DID AND TO DISCUSS. YOU STILL DON'T. WHUT

With things like this, am I supposed to believe you paid real attention to what I wrote? No.

---

In other words you're lecturing everyone on how pro-town you are. This sort of conceit does not strike me as particularly positive.

I'm describing my behaviour and why I believe that sort of approach makes sense. Obviously I believe I'm pro-town. Whether you agree with it or not is not my decision and you more than welcome to show us why.

Don't tell me what I should and shouldn't bring up.

The quote this is adressing asked 'why didn't you do this' and such, it didn't say what you should or should not be doing.

I have no interest in you shooting your mouth off about x and y being scum because

I know it has no substance to it

but if you're going to wave your hands up in the air and say,

"Hey guys, btw, I have a role that will get me nightkilled!!!!",

then that's something the town should deal with.

Actually, it has LOTS of substance, which I already showed everyone. (as possible in this stage of the game)
Also, this:

Hey guys, btw, I have a role that will get me nightkilled!!!!",

is not what I said.

then that's something the

town

should deal with.

...Why?

Again, same question posed: Commenting on a role is more important than commenting on a 'x and y is scum' claim?

If you can't keep your mouth shut about your role like the other

11 players

, then that's something the town will have to deal with now. Maybe you're content with assuming the scum don't notice things like that, but I, for one, play as though the scum would be able to at least pick up anything I can and then some.

I can get a quote if you want, but I wasn't the only one in 12 players who said something about their role after confirming,

AND I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS; GOOD TO KNOW YOU'RE PAYING ATTENTION.

Also, that part of the quote... it makes no sense. Please explain your last sentence? Again, I ask, 'why does town have to deal with it?'

---

All I'm getting out of Exilon is that he is trying very hard to look town, and seems to know off the bat who scum is. I'm not getting anything that Exilon is saying up to this point. Rather than actually trying to hunt scum, it only looks like he's coming up with vague reasons to vote for other people, and is trying not to look suspicious (which he is not succeeding in doing.) Therefore, I'm keeping my vote where it is.

..Ok, lol. This deserves a bit of breakdown.

All I'm getting out of Exilon is that he is trying very hard to look town

why

and seems to know off the bat who scum is

Why? hint: I don't know who scum is.

I'm not getting anything that Exilon is saying up to this point

Then read again, try again, or ask for clarification instead of whining about it. Better question: if you don't get what I'm saying, why the hell are you making such assessments? How can you call someone scum if you don't know what they're saying or EVEN ASKING ABOUT IT?

Rather than actually trying to hunt scum

How do you know this if you don't understand what I am saying etc.

it only looks like he's coming up with vague reasons to vote for other people

As shown by the immense plethora of votes I have unleashed.

and is trying not to look suspicious (which he is not succeeding in doing.)

lol. Firstly, this makes no sense: Suspicious is pretty subjective, so there is no common criteria for being suspicious. Therefore, for you to say I'm trying to not be suspicious, which criteria are you using? Yours, or mine? If it's mine, then how can you say I'm trying to not be suspicious if you do not know what I classify as being suspicious? If it's yours, then how can I try to not look suspicious if I do not know what you consider suspicious? If this doesn't make any sense to you, then just go with this TL;DR version:

Why? Show us quotes, or in other words, support your accusation: from where do you induce that I am trying to not look suspicious?

Therefore, I'm keeping my vote where it is.

" I AM UNABLE TO READ EXILON OR UNDERSTAND HIM, IT ONLY

SEEMS

THAT HE'S TRYING TO LOOK TOWN AND IT

SEEMS

LIKE HE'S TRYING TO NOT BE SUSPICIOUS. THEREFORE, I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE AN EFFORT AT UNDERSTANDING HIM IN ORDER TO SUPPORT OR DISPROVE MY ACCUSATION AND MY VOTE WILL BE KEPT ON HIM."
No. Try again.

---

The claim that RedCoyote is rolefishing is god-awful as well.

VOTE: Exilon. I know I said I'd let Thor vs. pacman play out, but I want to switch gears.

That's it? You just vote? What about the rest of the post? My questions to everyone? Why do you think the analysis is crap? Do you agree with me? Yes or no? Why?
If you want to switch gears, where's the rest of iniative?

[Exilon]

It's slightly dangerous to say, but...I agree with Katsuki ::dives for cover::. The point on Red Coyote makes sense - declaring 'this is a pressure vote' when making a pressure vote sort of defeats the pressure, and thus the purpose, of the vote.

I disagree with this. A pressure vote has the objective of putting someone closer to a lynch so as to make that person feel pressured to post content. In that sense, I do not think claiming a vote as a pressure vote defeats the purpose- after all, it has the same effects.

Is there another reason for you to agree with Katsuki? Do you think RedCoyote is scummy?
Also, why is it dangerous to say, why do you have to dive for cover? Aren't you confident in your opinion?

[Exilon]

And here it is:

RedCoyote is getting on your case for talking about your role. I can see how asking you what you mean by your role

NOT

getting you nightkilled

could

be considered rolefishing (emphasis meant to clearly indicate I was reading), but he's mainly trying to get you to shut up about your role so you do not leak important information to scum. In fact, you've already softclaimed bulletproof—not something you should have done. Best case scenario, the post does exactly what it says on the tin and tells the scum to kill someone else.

Oh, I see where you're getting at. It makes things bit more clear, thanks. But in my defense:
I softclaimed bulletproof as well as softclaiming scum as well as softclaiming a huge amount of other stuff. In other words, there's a huge amount of WIFOM there that only confuses scum. And also, why would I softclaim bulletproof?

Again, not something scum needs to know. I love having lots of information, but gee whiz, this is getting anti-town!

It was a joke comment. I made a joke comment too, and then I labeled it. That's my point. That's why I called RC's response 'rolefishing'.

---

The implication is clearly there. You're making this into the Exilon show, you know, and we're all little action figures in your cardboard box.

It's fine if you want to be a leader, but you're already rubbing me the wrong way.

Well, I... can't really/don't know how to answer this xD

The effect is the same. The point I'm making is that you're softclaiming.

And what am I softclaiming?

Because there is no scumtell, no read, and no power, that I know of, that will give you a perfect predicition of every player's alignment some 3 or 4 pages into the game. That's pure arrogance and foolhardy behavior that will just set everyone off course. The only players that know the scum are the scum themselves.

Of course not. And if there isn't, then you can't possibly interpret my statement as me saying they are scum with 100% accuracy. What I did was propose a possibility and telling people to discuss it. 'X and Y are scum. What do you think?'

You don't have to ask the same question multiple times in one post. My last sentence means that if I'm able to pick up on your, "I have a role that will get me nightkilled", then the scum will just as easily be able to.

It was quoted in bold letters, 'the above sentence is a trap.' Good to know scum will pick up the same thing you do, because there was exactly zero information to be got by that sentence.

[Exilon]

lol StrangerCoug.
Seriously now, there was no need (and there really isn't) to make that comment more than what it was. In fact, the only ones who REALLY care about it would be scum, not town. For Town, the most important aspect of a person is their alignment. And facing it, a softclaim of that nature (truthful or not) doesn't exactly say anything about my alignment. I'm a bit sleepy, so if soemthing seems off in what I just said, that's why.

[Exilon]

Sorry to say that I don't have much more I want to bring up with Exilon at the moment. Everyone seems to think that Exilon's posts are filled with funny jokes that I'm, apparently, too dumb to understand. "The above sentence is a trap", "I'm claiming but I'm not", "this person is scum but he's really not". Sounds like a bunch of non-sequiturs and arrogance to me, but I have no idea how to even have a discussion about it.

It's not arrogance, it's trying to get starting reads on people through bizarre methods (which, in my opinion, works pretty well in early stages). However, it's not exactly random. Here, I'll clear it a bit more:

Posts #44 and #45, page 2:

I believe so.

You already had a random vote out.
You decided to change it (this is not random, something made you decide you should change your random vote)
You cite two reasons for the change;

1) [He] Bandwagon[ed] other player.
2) [Was] the Mod of Hydra Mafia.

2. is pretty obviously not a real reason (if it is, let everyone know so we can lynch you right away )
1. Is something of a real reason - maybe you like RVSing bandwagon voters. Ah, but 2 players had done the same thing, so, once again, your vote showed direction that was beyond RVS.

Your change of vote wasn't RVS
Your choice of bv instead of Thor wasn't RVS
Yet you claimed everything was RVS.
I submit that the evidence shows you were making a conscious decision to vote bv and/or unvote StrangerCoug, and that suggests scum mindset which makes you the clearly most obvious scum of the day thus far.
I'm pretty happy with the vote.

Thank you Thor, for taking us out of RVS (again).

@pacman: You just have to know that this is Thor's playstyle. He takes what many would think as a joke as serious (in this case, your vote on bv.)

Nonetheless, Thor brings up a point: you voted for bv for bandwagoning, when Thor did the same. The only difference between them now is that bv is modding some Hydra mafia (which is obviously just a joke reason for voting him.)

Despite the fact that this is page 2, I, too will take seriously a vote that was made because someone bandwagoned in RVS. I'm not going to assume whether your vote on him (bv) was random or not. I'm going to take bandwagoning as a serious reason for voting someone.

I would like to hear some talk on this. So, @everyone: What are your thoughts on pacman's vote on bv?

Which is a bit of extreme buddying, as noticed by:

$5 says Exilon's reasoning is that Far_Cry acted friendly to me in his first post - a massive buddy tell indeed. Don't see much value in hunting for buddy tells at this stage, but then I'm terrible with buddy tells.

A few posts after I posted the 'discuss' request. At least Thor was aware of the buddying and felt like he could/should point it out. No one else really paid much mention to it (except me) - so it's up to your interpretation what it means.

[Exilon]

Still waiting for some people to answer me, unless I've missed something.
Bub's still scummy.
And now I'm dead serious.

[Exilon]

Sorry for not posting, I haven't been in condition to do so. << In any case, I'll try to post something substantial once I'm feeling a bit better (which shouldn't take long.)

[Exilon]

Ok, catch up post, GO

One thing before I delve into the next pages. Far_cry needs to be confronted for his post #130. It's funny to see how you just unvote me without even adressing this post, then say you need more time to go over my posts, and then don't make any further comment about it.

And I think I forgot to comment on this, probably because it seemed so incoherent as a post from Far_cry (check my post to see what I'm talking about, linked above).

I don't like the way Exilon plays.
He's trying to look townie. I think it is more important to scum because they can win only by surviving for a long time. Townies hunt scum instead intensively.
He's also making posts which has many general things in it. I think it is scummy, because it is makes townies believe Exilon's town if they agree with his statements.

He's the most suspicious to me now.

Unvote
Vote: Exilon

[/quote]

What is this, I don't even-
It's like Wingless stole 3 or 4 lines from Far_cry's post, placed them in his own post, then added something just so it sounds more original.

He's trying to look townie. I think it is more important to scum because they can win only by surviving for a long time. Townies hunt scum instead intensively.

I can't see the sense in this quote. He states 3 pieces of information, and makes no logical connection among them, or explains what exactly he is accusing me of.
Ok, I'm trying to look townie - how so? Does it seems like I'm trying to survive for a long time (and if yes, how so)? Or am I hunting scum intensively? And if yes, how does it differ in the sense that my scumhunting is scummy in itself?

He's also making posts which has many general things in it. I think it is scummy, because it is makes townies believe Exilon's town if they agree with his statements.

Aside from the grammar abuse, what do you consider to be 'general things'? And since when does one consider another one townie because he agrees with them? Basically, I think this sentence is just baseless and unfounded. Agreeing with someone does not mean you find them town- that might work for you, but not for me.

So please either clear your acusations up, provide a proper explanation or just change your vote, cause the way it is right now, it looks like you just looked for something to excuse a vote.

Ok, moving along now.

Exilon I think I need answers. Why are you making general statements? Why do you want to control the town?

Without repeating what I said above:
A) Define 'general statements'.
B) What makes you think I want to control the town? Show evidence of this.

---

Not linking Zajnet follow-up vote to Katsuki, specially because of the similar wording which is striking me as a very bad case of parrotry. One says 'never should have unvoted', the next says 'the vote which I haven't used all game'. Maybe this is baseless, but I got a strange vibe. Also, the timestamps. I actually like RC's point made on 175, which gets carried to 190.

Explain why. He said he had a role that would get him killed. I asked why he said that. Where's the rolefishing? I think you're skimming over the issue a bit.

DUDE GOD DAMNIT I DIDN'T SAY I HAD A ROLE THAT'D GET ME KILLED FOR THE MILLION'TH TIME. I THINK THE REASON WHY OTHER SAY IT'S ROLEFISHING AND YOU DON'T IS PRECISELY THAT. BECAUSE YOU MISREAD AND MISUNDERSTOOD AND MISACQUIRED THE MEANING OF THE SENTENCE. No, seriously, sometimes a small change in grammar or wording can alter the whole thing.

big LOL at Thor's Thor's 193.

There's really nothing else I can say. Unless I've misunderstood it, I agree with RC here.
That said, Bub's still a good place for my vote to rest.
where the heck is BV, btw?

[Exilon]

possibly we should.
Did I miss the explanation of that vote?

[Exilon]

I'll read this tomorrow right now there's no time D:

[Exilon]

I love it when people don't adress my posts. Ok, reread done. Not much here to see, but this is important.

@Antihero:

I'm being pretty honest about the gut thing for Bub - something about the way he's playing just twigs me wrong

This.

I also didn't really like the way he answered me and I remind you that he claimed he'd discuss after I posted my reasons. Well, I did it, but he still wouldn't comment on it.
There is a better place to have my vote now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wingless
His crappy unvote of me was followed by some other unvotes (of me) and his explanation was pretty bad. He got called by me a few times on his posts commenting on me and he didn't even bother to explain or answer. He seemed to be quite sure, too.

Then there's this:

I think Exilon really tries to seem town. I don't understand his reasons of this. SC and RC don't see this is as a scum tell as I did. I have reread the whole game and I see that Exilon is trying to hunt scum, he was analyzing hard, etc. I don't say he's not scum, i just don't see him scummy now.

He just said the same thing when he accused me of being scum. His reasons were same. Now suddenly Wingless doesn't see it as a scum tell? Am I missing something here? What the heck changed? Also, wishy washy stances do not work with me.

If I missed something, I'll get to it next time (test on Wednesday). Also, if a better explanation of why I found Bub scummy is needed, I'll gladly give it.

[Exilon]

WTF internet crashed I hads this post URGH.

Ok then, quickly enough.
I'm gonna be V/LA starting Friday which means I have less time to discuss. Anyway, I still see Wingless as a good lynching candidate - I'll post something a bit more substantial tomorrow (no, I haven't forgotten what was asked of me, just right now this is a bit more improtant and I don't have much time) but basically a read on what I have said about Wingless + a read of his ISO should give you good grounds to agree/disagree with Wingless -> Scum (so please do it.).

If it boils down to it, I can change my vote to Kat or wtv, although I see his low activity as a null tell. In my opinion, there's better lynches. BV is basically tied with Kat, but has done even less than Kat has, which places him higher on the lynchee list. I do agree with a Fakegod lynch. I like Antihero's analysis on him and also agree that his "will vote for the highest bandwagon on RVS" is not pro-town at all. Yet, the vast majority of his posts sound as town. His later ones don't tend so much to the good side, though.

[Exilon]

Ok, here we go.

@Exilon: why is bub scummy?

When I first came out with my RVS crap-trap, I asked people to discuss. Bub was the third one to comment on that, and he retorted with this:

I also agree with Wingless that Exilon needs to exlain his reasons for suspecting Thor and Farcry before we can discuss.

As stated back then, Wingless was not the only one who commented on it. I felt this was a bit forced and unwilling to take a stance for fear - as I explained, something that town would be less inclined to do. On his next post, he even reinforces his statement, but doesn't, again, take a stance. He wanted the information, but was unwilling to take a stance. This is mostly a null tell, but if you take it from this perspective:

Me - > Claims X is scum, asks for agreeing/disagreeing
bub -> Asks why

You see there's a slight difference in motivation. Bub could state he agreed to me or not, as town would be inclined to do on the same situation and not state why to avoid a possible scummy-piggyback from me. Yet he simply pressed me to explain why. I think it's clear (and I think I have stated) why scum is more likely to do this.

He tried to justify himself on his next post (ISO #3), to which I answered, and then, if you keep reading, you see there is no further commentary. He simply drops it, even after I explained WHY they were scummy and said "now that I've explained", you can finally discuss. What I find interesting was the amount of people that said they would not dicuss until I stated why but then, when I did, said nothing more. what's even more interesting is how the unvotes came, some with no reference, such as Bub's and Wingless.

In fact:

UNVOTE: Exilon. I need a little time to go over Exilon's posts. And I need to look at RC.

Because of the way Pacman and you went out there in such a way as to draw attention to yourself. For a couple of pages, you were the sole attraction of the town. That is not a place scum want to be.

Ok, this makes sense. Only stupid scum would try to draw so much attention to themselves. My read on pacman and thor is similar to yours: town vs. town.

Vote: Far_Cry

Do you normally like to piggy-back on other people's reads without adding anything usefull?

And there actually isn't

even an unvote

. Pretty much the rest of his posts are just calling on lurkers and not adding much.

---

I skimmed over a game where Exilon was a VT.
He said that his suspicions grow over time, and that it's hard for him to have suspects on day 1.
He's rather bit more aggressive in this game...

One thing you should know about me, it is NOT a good idea to evaluate my scuminess from my meta. You're free to do so, but I'm too unstable and I've since then changed my playstyle, ideas, etc., a bit. My suspicions still grow a bit slowly, but I've become a bit more impulsive as it's more helpful to do something than to sit still waiting for things to happen.

---

Come on people, we must lynch scum today. We need 3 more votes.
Exilon, can'T you aunderstand that I read the game and I changed my mind about it?

What is hard to understand is how, from the same damn perspective, you say 'he's scummy' and then 'he's not'.
IT's as simples as this: I can't see the difference between your reasons for finding me scummy and for finding me town. Curiously, I called you out on it BOTH times and asked you to please explain your reasons and support them and BOTH TIMES YOU IGNORED IT.

You sounded a bit like this:
"Exilon seems to try to be town and he seems to try to be scumhunting. Therefore, he is scum.
To:
"Exilon seems to try to be town and he seems to be trying to scumhunt intensively. Therefore, I don't see him as being too scummy."

Besides the extreme wishy-washiness present in ALL of those posts, further reinforced by you unvoting me after several others have done so as well, I can't possibly deduct by myself what was it exactly in my posts that changed your mind, or that made you think I was scum in the first place.

---

I my I me I I my I my me me me me me I me

There seems to be a running theme in your commentary of late - any reads on someone not based on interactions with you?

Funny of you to say that. You're actually right, the vast majority of my opinions tend to come from direct interactions with me. But even with me being self-centered, I still manage to get ignored xD. for instance, I asked you a while ago (same as Bub, actually) why the heck you moved your vote over to Bub, and you only answered when HE asked. Anyway, hopefully there have been enough reads on other people interactions on my part, I'm not exactly measuring <.<. Hopefully.

Similarly, I've asked everyone to please tell me why Wingless is not a good lynch candidate, (things such as 'x person is better' isn't really a good reason).

TL;DR

: Why is Wingless not a good lynch candidate?
Order of willingess to vote-list:
Wingless
Bub
FakeGod

If there's something I missed, please point it out, thanks. =)

MOD

Also:

Exilon is V/LA starting Friday... whatever that means. How long you going to be gone, Exilon?

Until Monday.

[Exilon]

Funny of you to say that. You're actually right, the vast majority of my opinions tend to come from direct interactions with me.

Why would it be funny of to ask then, if I'm right.

Also - you never actually then provide a read on anyone that doesn't involve interactions with you

. Please try again.
How about a read on Antihero - I don't actually think the two of you have interacted at all and I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of analysis.

The quote you provided was funny. Reading me, I do repeat me and I quite sometimes. The bolded statement is indeed a bit too bold. first, there have been some reads I have provided out of my interaction area and thing sI have commented on - second, and what's the issue with the vast majority of my reads being from self-interactions?

As for Antihero, there's nothing I find scummy or that I feel I should point out about him. Normally, people point out what they found wrong and what they find scummy, not the contrary. What analysis do you want me to make? I think he brings up good points, I generally agree with him, etc. Now answer him and get a case on Bub otherwise boom.

But even with me being self-centered, I still manage to get ignored xD. for instance, I asked you a while ago (same as Bub, actually) why the heck you moved your vote over to Bub, and you only answered when HE asked.

You're right, I did ignore that question. Does this have a point?

Yes. Don't ignore people's questions.

Similarly, I've asked everyone to please tell me why Wingless is not a good lynch candidate, (things such as 'x person is better' isn't really a good reason).

How is that not a good reason?
Why is he a *better* candidate?
All such reads are subjective.

I've got gut on Bub, I don't feel Wingless yet, he's tossing off enough newbie energy I can't discern how scummy I think his actions may or may not be. Therefore, urge to lynch is lower then someone I think is "better"

It's not a good reason since you can't actually show that Bub is a better lynch candidate; at least, from where I come from, Case + Gut > Gut, which makes Wingless a better lynch in any logic. (If you feel something along the lines of 'there's no case' on Wingless, then reread my latest posts. There's alot of it going around.)

Unless you feel that the case on Wingless is crap, but in that case, you have to show how your gut on bub > wingless case, and for that, saying "reads are subjective, I don't value your analysis" is not enough; you have to show why and how you came to that conclusion. With a little bit more of objectiveness.

In other words, your stance on Wingless is incredibly wishy-washy. You're playing the newbie card, and seriously, that does not 1) work here, 2) make you look good.

[Exilon]

Thor, you're going to have to do better than calling me a loser and saying "gut" to get me to vote Bub. I'm not seeing a case at all.

--
Why was there a need to ignore me?
--

I've also not been wishy-washy about Wingless, I would rather lynch Bub than him, that's a stance and is clearly made. If you think I'm being wishy-washy then try to lock me down, otherwise spare me the buzz words.

Being wishy washy means your stance (aka read) on someone is weak and flip-floppy, as in "He seems to be a bit scum, but doesn't seem like it". My point is that your view on Wingless is this one; it's got nothing to do with Bub.

If you think excusing his behaviour on being a newbie in detriment of following a gut read works, then, with all due respect, you're being anti-town and you should reconsider that belief.

[Exilon]

Until that moment, it was part of the meta. And 1) I don't know which game you are talking about; 2) I'm pretty sure I wasn't excusing myself from attacking people as I probably DID attack people but rather for not having a solid stance on someone.

[Exilon]

Ok, since I'll be V/LA...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bub

[Exilon]

Gandalf, WTF?

Me or RC? And I'm a more popular vote? What is this I don't even-
Please explain your vote more properly. It's day 2. There is next to ZERO reasons why you should not provide a good case with a vote. The only thing you're saying is that you're voting out of bandwagoning.

On anohter note, even though Fakegod's analysis could say something, it's a bit lacking in the sense that you must assume a StrangerCoug-mafia case scenario. See, I, for one, think Strangercoug was a mafia kill and Thor was the vig kill, mainly because Stranger was laying a bit low but was acting in a townish way (or at least that's what kinda showed by the lack of attacks on him) and that wouldn't probably let himself be pushed into a mislynch. Thor's case is a bit different, as he was a bit more participative, had some people suspecting him, etc.. In any case, discussing what was vig kill/sk/mafia is a bit irrelevant and doesn't add much to the game.

So, with that said, it's finally a good time to pursue a good suspect that's beein lying around since the end of Day 1.

Vote: Wingless

.
For reasons posted before the end of Day 1.
Also, Fakegod, I think his first suspicion was me, not Bub.

[Exilon]

Have you read the flavor? I was also rather undecided until I read how each of them died.

Yes, I have read the flavour, and what I have said still stands. Aside that, I don't think nightkill flavour (at least, in these kinds of games) is too meaningful. (aka relevant).

Interesting perspective. Why do you not think it adds to the game though? Do you think FG doesn't have a point? Do you think it's too WIFOMy?

Usually it doesn't add much to the game (at least Day2 and such) because of the amount of WIFOM. I don't dislike FG's analysis persay, but it is too debatable to be objective. He pointed one or two reasons for Thor being killed, but for one to be totally objective he would have to consider MORE possibilities than those. As pointed out, just like that seems to be a bit 'self-serving'.

I agree with you on your point that inactivity is not helping the game at all. That town has to waste lynches on inactive people is hateful. Not yet voting Katsuki, though, as I want PRESSURE ON WINGLESS.

Confront me or follow me, but please don't ignore me

Hey, that's usually what I said too! D: Which reminds me.

Exilon seems to be very satisfied with his case on me.

Indeed I am. and you seem very satisfied with not counterattacking my case.
So why are people not voting Wingless?

[Exilon]

Zajnet deserves this for #348.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zajnet

Wingless seems to be a dead end for now, but my point still stands on his wishy-washiness.

[Exilon]

I assume you mean #358

Please elaborate as to why you think I should be voted.

You assume right. Sorry for that error :s

Your post contains ABSOLUTELY no content, it works to take off some pressure by forcing you to take a stance to which youa ren't willing to commit. You were asked your top scum reads, (basically) and your answer was, simply put, "Gandalf because of what people have been saying so far." It's completely unhelpful, has a bit of parroting, extreme wishy-washiness, and unexplained reads.

You need to do more. Hence the vote. But I do not want you dead. Yet. The pressure is good enough for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gandalf

I AM GOING TO SAY THIS AGAIN: SUPPORT YOUR READS.

[Exilon]

EDBWOP: That quote is by Zajnet.

[Exilon]

GANDALF FOR CHRIST SAKE WHY ARE YOU NOT EXPLAINING YOUR READS.
Guys, I'm still supportive of a Zaj lynch, but I don't want him dead, YET. Consider it a FoS, if you will. I want gandalf to answer first.

[Exilon]

hum.. I see. Well, I can see where you're coming from then. Still, haven't your reads changed throughout Day 2? No more suspicions have grown?

[Exilon]

No one asked you for cases, we asked you to properly justify a vote and/or reads.. At least that's what I did.
Simply stating "don't like x, y should die" is extremely anti-town and does not help anyone, except scum.

I'm sure you know that.

[Exilon]

I already explained it, Wingless. Gandalf is being extremely anti-town by not providing any information or explanation on his reads.

[Exilon]

NO, GANDALF WAGON IS BETTER.

Vote: Gandalf

[Exilon]

And I barely posted anything yesterday.
Also, Gandalf, you deserve this for being extremely anti-town.

VOTE: Gandalf

[Exilon]

Rc, I never tried to stop lynching scum. I'm mostly leaning Wingless as scum. Unless there's 3 scum PR which I find unlikely, giving the Town's PRs.

I'm also a VT. I'm Willie Cicci.

RC, why not use your power on the second night since there are no doctors? In any case, I still think you are pretty much confirmed. Rc, I don't think it would have been too risky for Wingless to do so (bussing for town cred), but I'll have to check it. Also the nightkills are consistent with his play so far. (laying low).

[Exilon]

Wait, I just noticed there was actually a doctor in this game. Well, that changes the balance a bit. I'll have to rethink this for a bit.

I want to go further. Wingless and RC, provide a transcription of the flavour in your role PMs, if you'd please. I doubt this will get very far, but it's better than nothing and at this point I'll take what I can get. I think Rc already did part of this, but it shouldn't be a problem. I'll go first.

Mine says I'm a loyal

soldado

with a bright future in the family. I'm one of the top buttonmen, (also referred as

soldado

), and as such, I do not have any powers of my own, as I follow the orders from my

caporegime

, the family. In this chaos, though, I am to fend off and thwart the plans of Solozzo and his allies.

[Exilon]

Before advancing anything else, I am PRETTY sure that's not the only things you have in your role PM flavor-wise. Please extend your transcriptions.
Also, I didn't see the movie.

[Exilon]

RC, please don't do anything rash before analyzing these last posts insightfully.

[Exilon]

Wingless, that was a really weak play in Lylo. You gotta step it up a bit. You contradicted yourself alot and I was checking for the role PMs to see if someone would make some slip. I WAS suspecting RC and I was trying to give him some confidence, so I could see his reaction.

You yourself said " we have the day ahead of us", then suddenly you vote- what's up with that? RC buddied up to you right on the beginning of Day 3 but you failed to notice. Also, on a side note, be aware that there ISN'T body language in this game and that you applied of psychology didn't work that well. Bolding something is not proof of anything, and when you said I was suspicious because of that, you really seemed to be reaching for a inexistent case.

More to come, possibly. Very good win, RC.