Open 244: Carbon-14 (Game Over, Werewolves win!)

[Copper]

/confirm.

[Copper]

Hello all. I'd like to open up Copper's play with a...

vote: RayFrost

This is because he abandoned us in a previous game, and, well, I'm still a little sore about it. If left unchecked, he may abandon another, and another, and another...

[Copper]

Have you ever seen someone accidentally hammered?

Yes, many times. Enough that mafia can easily "accidentally" hammer someone at L-1 without looking too out of place. (Or perhaps it makes more sense in the reverse: that you will accidentally kill townies if you punish every accidental hammer.)

Rayfrosts actions have been rather bizarre. I agree that it's an innocent enough mistake not to realize that 3 votes is L-1. This game is much smaller than the mafiascum norm. But his subsequent vote feels off, and I don't like his out of the blue replacement. While I hate gaming replacements - I can think of many reasons to leave a game I wouldn't want to share with strangers - it strikes me as scummy. I realize that my paranoid twinges aren't much of a case, but I'll be leaving my vote and I'm keenly interested in what the replacement has to say.

[sic]'s frustration regrading Rayfrost and his desire to advance beyond the RVS seems genuine. My one reservation with him is the one Liam has expressed, that he let go of a good point too soon. Still, that also makes sense from a perspective of frustration, in a "fine I guess we're not going for this" way, and [sic] is my strongest town read thus far.

[Copper]

Copper, whereabouts are you getting your strong town read from?

As I said, [sic] seems to be handling the pressure genuinely. Not necessarily well, although that's up for personal subjection, but genuinely nonetheless. My issue is that [sic] was caught between a rock in a hard place, so it's tough for me to see it as clear cut as maybe you or Robo does. Was he trying to appease Robo or did he sense the wagon was a lost cause? If he steps up, he's pushing a early case on a weak point, but if he backs down, well, page 3 and page 4 are what happens.

Copper, where do you get your town read on him from? How does this post influence it?

Welcome to the game. Refer above. As to your contributions, I can't say I'm growing more convinced on [sic]'s scuminess with the likes of "OMGUS, AtE, and tunneling on L-1", when, one, he actually pulled off of the argument you contend that he's tunneling on (which is the opposite definition of the word), two, even if you consider OMGUS a serious scumtell, it's hard to establish its validity in a 7-player game, and three, I find that emotional appeals are largely based on the individual. In this case, I do not find [sic] in the business of using emotion to undermine discussion.

Additionally, I'd ask that you show a willingness to delay your actions a bit. A lynch can't be undone. Will you at least wait until other players have a chance to talk? Your abruptness does not give me comfort in your alignment at the moment. This, coupled with Ray's sudden dropping from the game, gives me a bad feeling.

[Copper]

So maybe I focused a bit much on [sic]. But I'm not now, [sic]'s scum-buddy.

[...]

See first line, and where did ray tunnel?

This worries me. Maybe because Me=Weird has been talking so much and feels so sure of himself. Still, if we can't get the votes for Me=Weird, we may need to begin to discuss a compromise lynch. The deadline is fast approaching.

[Copper]

I was hoping Robo had caught onto your implications of being a power role and decided to unvote. I guess not. I feel a bit responsible here, [sic], because I should've been more decisive in my defense of you. I always get a little worried about pushing anyone who says something like, "You really don't want to lynch me", with the slim hope that it would go unnoticed by scum. Now we need counter claims of course, although I doubt there will be any. Unless my reads are off target, [sic] is a Seer.

I think the question we have before us is, where do we aim our pitchforks and torches? Do we go towards those like Me=Weird/Robo, who were more actively pressing this lynch, despite knowing, I think, deep down, that [sic] had left some seriously obvious breadcrumbs, or do we go after Liam/Scott, who were more passively pressing this lynch, again, despite the breadcrumbs.

Normally I would wait for my fellow heads before making a serious move this close to the deadline, but Robo's off/on wagon trick really did seem more staged than not, and I'm curious what others have to say about it.

Unvote

;

vote: Robocopter87

[Copper]

Hammering me at this point would be a VERY BAD MOVE.

Scott/Robo, what impression did you two get from this comment?

Copper, why are you restricting yourself to only going after people who were on [sic]'s wagon?

I may be acting a little presumptive, but I just saw it as pretty clear that we would be getting a power role claim from [sic]. I didn't want [sic] to have to claim, and, in retrospect, I should've been more forceful. When I saw Robo unvote, I thought we would be able to move toward a more compromising lynch candidate, but Robo jumped back on the wagon and I guess that scared [sic] into claiming (and I don't blame him). I don't understand Robo's current stance of refusing to unvote.

[Copper]

If [sic] doesn't want to call it breadcrumbing, then that's fine. Excessive hinting. Dropping tells. Leaving big clues... etc. Whatever you want to call it, Robo is now ducking for cover. Is it really that hard to believe that someone on [sic]'s wagon was rolefishing? I contend that player was Robo on account of his vote hopping. He wanted to appear as though he was considering his vote, when he was really just attempting to turn up the pressure on [sic] to claim. This is why Robocopter is the best lynch today, and his vote hopping solidified that in my mind.

[Copper]

I realize that another head already addressed this point, but I want to elaborate.

Then Copper comes in saying he was sorry due to the obvbreadcrumbs, yet, theres no breadcrumbs! It looked like a failed attempt from scum to defend his partner near death.

We've been using "breadcrumb" as internal shorthand for the "I'm a power role" cues that [sic] has left in his posts. I don't know why [sic] says there are none, but lines like:

I think M=W is smart enough not to hammer after 4 pages of short posts and without a claim, but just in case: Hammering me at this point would be a VERY BAD MOVE.

and

Might claim soon. Losing hope that some people are able to actually help themselves/the town out.

strike me as fairly obviously breadcrumbs. Robo, I'd like you to say out the single biggest reason you think I'm scum. Even if you feel you've already covered it in-thread, write it out in a more concise matter instead of just quoting yourself.

Scott, I'm confused that you voted for this reason:

The more I look at it, the more I think given the lack of counter-claim and Copper's play, that Copper is buddying town sic very hard.

Of course I'm buddying town sic. This is a seven player game. A confirmed voting bloc only two or three strong can absolutely make the game. It's better to townhunt instead of scumhunt when the numbers are this low, and simply pick out the scum with PoE. We agreed fairly quickly that [sic] was a townie, and then he dropped obvious power-role cues. We didn't quite defend him enough, and he was forced to reveal his claim. Now he's uncounterclaimed. Our primary town suspect as an uncountered PR - that's about as confirmed as they get. So, yes, I'm buddying up to the person I'm almost certain is town. Why is this vote-worthy? Indeed, our single greatest regret in the quicktopic is that we didn't buddy him enough when doing so might have saved him from claiming.

[Copper]

I've got to say, especially after Robo's flip, I'm even more interested in picking apart yesterday's [sic] wagon (Scott, Me=Weird, Liam). At least one scumbag is in that group, but I think both are because I have a mutual town feeling with rudeboy.

Mod

, can we get a prod on Liam?

[Copper]

I am a vanilla townie. I'd like a2 to claim next.

Apologises for the sparse posting, I (as in, this head) have had no time for mafia the last few days. I'll say quickly that a.) I think speculation of werewolves versus mafia is a red herring and b.) persecution of those who are speculating is also probably a red herring. It's something that, whether town or scum, you'd probably only bring up if you weren't thinking about the power of confirmed townies. I doubt it'd be employed as a deliberate diversion by scum. Though a2 could very well be scum, if he is the werewolf/mafia speculation is probably unrelated to his alignment.

[Copper]

I was working on a response when I realized that deadline comes before CML returns. Since we need every townie working together to lynch scum, we've already lost if CML is a townie. While I still have misgivings that Scott might be trying to bait a CML mislynch (this has been a point of extreme internal contention), we can only win at this point if CML is scum. So here we stand, resigned.

Vote: CallmeLiam

[Copper]

Thanks to our great Mod, bv310.

I enjoyed playing with everyone here, although I think some of the other heads did a better job than I did. I played too hard, too fast, when I should've just coasted through the game. I don't know why I felt compelled to throw up a big attack on everyone in [sic]'s defense when I could've just as easily played dumb and joined with Scott/Liam/Robo. I did honestly think everyone would've caught onto [sic]'s "trust me you don't want to lynch me" routine that I've heard time and time again in all the newbie games I've played, but I should've known better than to beat my chest over it. If I had it to do over again, I would've just let Robo/[sic] go at it without jumping in. That said, it did give Me=Weird a chance to play the more "silent" partner I suppose.

Anyways, fun game though, gg.