Open 244: Carbon-14 (Game Over, Werewolves win!)

[Me=Weird]

Hi.
Here's a case on [sic].
OMGUS. Of a random vote. A bit nervous there, eh, scum?
More OMGUS, of something obviously not serious. And that could also be classified as AtE, "and you're helping scum with your vote". Especially since the vote in question wasn't even on him.
This is the smallest non-marathon-dethy I've been in. I wouldn't have noticed it was L-1 either. Which is why there are mods, I suppose.
"Counter-wagon" is you. You fail. Okay. Oh. You mean fail at

making

counter wagons. So some-one slipped up and forgot there's 7 people. blah blah.
Yeah, lets put pressure on someone who isn't usually in small games instead of the person who does OMGUS, AtE, and tunneling on a null-tell. Wait, it isn't opposite day, is it?
Tries to subtly discredit robo by pointing out the irrelevant grammar fail.
Sure it is. Only 1 vote difference.
Okay, so… you're okay with ray's vote, but think he should be punished for it? In what alternate reality does this make sense?
So you think only you and robo read the votecount? Do you really think everyone else doesn't care?
If you still think it's scummy, and are talking about it, why aren't you voting? Oh yeah, post 57. Where you… just look up a couple lines in this case.
No need to claim. It's not like you're at L-1 or anything. It's not like I'd be willing to hammer.[/sarcasm]
Oh yes, he's the only one who "Seems to have read and understood my posts" because he's the only one who seems to think you're town.
Yes, it's a scum-tell. You're like, "Oh, somebody thinks I'm town! Everyone, that means I'm town. There, we have to confirmed town, me and him." Just because someone thinks you're town doesn't mean we all should. We have a right to our own opinions.
Why is it any worse than yours? Why is it bad at all? This is almost OMGUS.

So basically, he OMGUS's, (to a lesser extent,) AtE's, tunnels on accidental L-1 with 7 people, which he doesn't have a problem with but feels should be punished.
[sic], please claim. I'm willing to hammer.
Copper, where do you get your town read on him from? How does this post influence it?
Robo, what do you think of [sic]'s recent posts, especially the one above this?
Scott, a2rudeboy, please contribute more.

Sorry for the WoT.

[Me=Weird]

Mod: Vote-count, please?

[Me=Weird]

Of course. It's a post that says he's scum. Therefore, according to [sic] logic, it is full of misreps.

[Me=Weird]

Hi.
Here's a case on [sic].
OMGUS. Of a random vote. A bit nervous there, eh, scum?
More OMGUS, of something obviously not serious. And that could also be classified as AtE, "and you're helping scum with your vote". Especially since the vote in question wasn't even on him.

Both massive reaches. First post is random vote, for jokey reason. Second post is pointing out that Scott called me scum but is voting for the same guy as me. I really don't get the AtE thing.

First post is voting him for voting you because of brackets. OMGUS. The AtE is where you're almost saying "I'm town so you're helping scum with the vote. You should unvote because I'm town and you're helping scum".

This is the smallest non-marathon-dethy I've been in. I wouldn't have noticed it was L-1 either. Which is why there are mods, I suppose.
"Counter-wagon" is you. You fail. Okay. Oh. You mean fail at making counter wagons. So some-one slipped up and forgot there's 7 people. blah blah.
Yeah, lets put pressure on someone who isn't usually in small games instead of the person who does OMGUS, AtE, and tunneling on a null-tell. Wait, it isn't opposite day, is it?

Pressure gets the game going. Based on your logic, I should have voted myself? Crappy last part covered above.

No. You should find someone to pressure other than someone who just miscounted, or at least not because of miscounting.

Tries to subtly discredit robo by pointing out the irrelevant grammar fail.

I truly didn't understand what he was saying. Still don't, since he never addressed it.

So why didn't you ask him in that long string of posts that you and him made directly after? Is it because you're making this up as you go?

Sure it is. Only 1 vote difference.

Small game, one vote is a big difference.

And what if people believed you, and two of them piled on?

Okay, so… you're okay with ray's vote, but think he should be punished for it? In what alternate reality does this make sense?

Didn't want to lynch him, but it was worth a vote. Don't recall wanting to "punish" him, wagons aren't always about the wagonee.

You wanted people to not let him off the hook. You said "Meh. My problem is with people letting RayFrost off the hook, not with his vote." That implies you don't care about the vote, yet are voting for him anyway.

So you think only you and robo read the votecount? Do you really think everyone else doesn't care?

Based on their posting, apparently not.

What?

If you still think it's scummy, and are talking about it, why aren't you voting? Oh yeah, post 57. Where you… just look up a couple lines in this case.

Clarify? Don't know what "it" is in this sentence.

"it" is the whole rayfrost going to L-1 thing.

No need to claim. It's not like you're at L-1 or anything. It's not like I'd be willing to hammer.[/sarcasm]
Oh yes, he's the only one who "Seems to have read and understood my posts" because he's the only one who seems to think you're town.
Yes, it's a scum-tell. You're like, "Oh, somebody thinks I'm town! Everyone, that means I'm town. There, we have to confirmed town, me and him." Just because someone thinks you're town doesn't mean we all should. We have a right to our own opinions.

Yeah, no misreps there. You're right, I shouldn't challenge anyone's opinions in a game of mafia. My bad.[/sarcasm]

If I really did misrep you, why aren't you saying where?

Why is it any worse than yours? Why is it bad at all? This is almost OMGUS.

1. He white-knighted for Scott.
2. His answer was evasive.
3. He's ok with Scott voting me for something he (Liam) won't commit to being a scumtell.

1. You did not imply at all that the question was only for scott.

I

thought it was a question for everyone.
2. True, but I'm not him, I can't explain it.
3. He only said it wasn't a town-tell, and the tone of his post makes me think he thought it to be a scum-tell.

So basically, he OMGUS's, (to a lesser extent,) AtE's, tunnels on accidental L-1 with 7 people, which he doesn't have a problem with but feels should be punished.

See above. On "tunneling": I count 3 posts I made about Ray (29, 40, 48), the rest were answers to direct questions. Almost all of those questions came from Robo. And then he accuses me of tunneling. Hmmm.

I'll drop the tunneling. Looking back, it't the tone of your posts that seem tunnel-y.

[sic], please claim. I'm willing to hammer.

Too early to claim, not enough info out. You're the only one who's actually made a case, and you're not even on the wagon.

So you want me to hammer you so I'm on the bandwagon, and then you'll claim? It'll be a bit late then. I think hammer, anyway. I would know if the mod had granted my request for a votecount.

Copper, where do you get your town read on him from? How does this post influence it?

Hypocrisy FTW. He's entitled to his opinion, remember?

And that means I can't ask him about it?

Robo, what do you think of [sic]'s recent posts, especially the one above this?
Scott, a2rudeboy, please contribute more.

QFT on the last part. Then again, why would you want to hammer when you can see that some people are getting a pass?

I'm not going to hammer until we're ready.


Copper: I'm not going to hammer until we're ready. In what way do his posts seem genuine?
Exactly, scott. Some people might hate VT and flake as it, some people with scum, etc.

MOD: VOTE-COUNT PLEASE. THANK YOU.

[Me=Weird]

@[sic]:
I got confused on who ray was voting, I guess.
I agree it's a bit strange how robo didn't entirely respond to 69. Can you really not figure it out?
First vote is kinda eh. Third vote is L-1, which goes into accidental hammer range, fourth vote is the hammer. But the second vote, it escapes the pressure that could come from going to L-1, but it also bandwagons.
Well, it's not like it would be easy to tell since you announced it to the world.
Post 57: You say your problem isn't with his vote, but with people thinking(probably correctly) that ray simply forgot it's such a small game. You unvote, possibly because your wagon isn't going anywhere. You also said though, that you are still talking about. Which makes me wonder, why did you unvote?
Your post had that feeling, yes. And if I did mis-rep you, please say exactly how.
Apparently, you thought wrong. And I don't know!! I'm not him!
It seemed as though you were saying I should vote you because I'm the only one who made a case. Next time phrase it better. Just because you know what you mean doesn't mean we do.
It's okay to try to change peoples minds. You were like "you aren't reading or understanding my posts at all because you don't have a town-read on me."
Look at rayfrost's wiki. See if you can find his most recent 7 player game. Then see if it's really that far fetched for him not to realize 3 votes it L-1.
So, because ray might have gone to L-1 on purpose means he did?
Maybe they didn't catch on because they were stupid and ill-concieved?
In 57, you directly said that your problem isn't with the vote, it's people not attacking him for the vote. I believe this is a CONTRADICTION!!!
Oh, so you think I looked at the playerlist, decided, "oh, I'll pick [sic] to be scum" and look at your posts that way for no reason?
Sorry, it's a habit I've gotten into. Not sure if I'll be able to break it, but why do you care?
Exactly. I don't want to hammer yet.

Tomorrow I'll address a2rude's post. I'm tired.

[Me=Weird]

a2rude: please look at ray's wiki, see how many larger games he's played, and then figure out how feasible it is for him to have forgotten. Thank you.
You have town read on someone because of one post, which isn't, as you say, "a good point", and ignore the scummy things he's done?
So maybe I focused a bit much on [sic]. But I'm not now, [sic]'s scum-buddy.
First of all, we're not "barely out of RVS. RVS ended when [sic] went crazy over ray's L-1. Second of all, I'm not ready to hammer. I said I was because if L-1 pressures [sic], wouldn't threat of a lynch on him pressure more? Furthermore, I correctly guessed he would not claim. Therefore I'm awesome, and everyone knows awesome people are never scum.[/jkng]
See first line, and where did ray tunnel?
Why is it buddying to protest what appeared to be completely unfair replacement?
Oh, so we're scum because we share the same suspect? Isn't that usually what happens for people to lynch?
And, because you're not a fan of something, that means it's scummy?
Seeing as [sic] is at L-1, I'm very happy with my vote. I also find it interesting that me and my predecessor suspect the same scum-team.
Just about everyone, please provide more content!!

Mod: V/LA tomorrow.

[Me=Weird]

Hm. Copper, how are the breadcrumbs obvious? I didn't really notice them.
Are you saying it's impossible for someone to be scum unless they thought [sic] was scum?
Robo's unvote and revote was a bit weird, I'm not sure if it's scummy though. btw, Even with the anti-ninja stuff, I still didn't see his unvote. Ugh.
Robo, are you saying you don't believe his claim, or you just want to wait for any counter-claims?
So yeah, I'm happy with my vote. Here's why:
He random voted, blah blah. I don't really think the last parts buddying though.
Did he really think ray would admit to doing something scummy when he could say he didn't mean to? Not saying he did, I don't even know for sure, but it was a pointless question designed to make it look like he was contributing.
Then it's the post I destroyed. And asking for mod to fix tags.
Then, he apparently read the thread well enough to notice the vote-count error, but didn't say a thing about my response.
Not that many posts to begin with, and the one attempt at scum-hunting is poorly reasoned, IMO.

MOD: PROD ON CML?

[Me=Weird]

Obviously, an a2rude lynch isn't happening.
I'm for lynching robo at this point, though I agree that copper's buddying up, I'm not sure if I think that's worth lynching them for(yet), unless there's other stuff.
He's completely tunneled on [sic] the whole game, he had a funky unvote and revote which could have been him posting and then reading the thread. He's continued to attack [sic] despite nothing even resembling a cc. He's obviously not my first pick, but well, ATTACK OF THE EVIL DEADLINE!!

Unvote, Vote: Robocopter87

[Me=Weird]

Someone please hammer robo or it'll be a no-lynch. Plus, do we really want someone who will try to lynch claimed PR's without a CC in LyLo? If he's town, my top picks would likely be copper and a2rude.

[Me=Weird]

Anyone up for a mass-claim? It would reveal the cop at least, so that's one person mostly confirmed.
a2rude, why is copper town?
Tomorrow, after a reread, I will give thoughts. On everyone.
Scott, it's LyLo, not MyLo. LyLo is where the majority is one player more than how many scum there are, MyLo is like, 3 town 1 scum, or 4 town 2 scum. Basically when it's time to no-lynch.

[Me=Weird]

a2rude, if someone claims cop, no-one cc's, that person is basically confirmed town, and there can never be too many confirmed town.

[Me=Weird]

Cases later, when allergies aren't being evil and I can actually concentrate on things. For now, are we mass-claiming? Scott, you said it isn't a bad idea but aren't doing anything else, nobody else seems to care.

[Me=Weird]

Cases slightly delayed, likely coming tomorrow because I forgot about going to the beach.
Anyway, a2rude, are you saying that it's werewolves not mafia because [sic], basically a confirmed town, got NK'd, and you see no reason for mafia to kill a practically confirmed town? Sounds more like you have inside info about whether it's mafia or werewolves.

CML, can you please start contributing? You come in every once in a while with one-line posts that aren't very helpful.

I'm fine with you starting, scott.

[Me=Weird]

Oh, we're scum together because we happen to agree that you're not making much sense? And, if that isn't what you mean, then no, I don't know exactly what you mean. Please clarify, as it very much looks like you're saying what I thought you're saying.

[Me=Weird]

So you're saying you got an inno on me? And what kind of breadcrumbs are "PIG"? And why are my suspects claiming PR's!?!?
Who do you want to go next? Me or CML?

Why copper is(are?) scum:

Says that they thought [sic] was being genuine, without ever saying why.
They limit themselves to going after people who were on the [sic] wagon. Say that we continued to attack [sic] after the "obvious breadcrumbs", which I never noticed.
I know what impression I got from that post. AtE and not wanting a lynch on page 4. Copper seemed to get something else though, see below.
Seems to think the reason we don't see the breadcrumbs is because we don't know what breadcrumbs are, which is not true. Says "Hammering me at this point would be a VERY BAD MOVE." on page four and "Might claim soon. Losing hope that some people are able to actually help themselves/the town out." are breadcrumbs. The first one is, like I said before, not wanting a lynch on page 4 and AtE. The second part is AtE.
Admits to buddying, apparently thinks doing so will make a group of confirmed towns. At least that's what it seems like they're saying.
Robo's flip for whatever reason makes them very interested in picking apart the [sic] wagon. Not sure why.
For this last post, I have nothing to say except refer to post #207.

If it weren't LyLo, this is where my vote would be.

H(uge)HoS: Copper

Why CML is a likely scumbuddy:

Huge lurking, not responding at all to responses, the few posts are not only far between, but also very short and unhelpful. Sorry, not much analysis, more PoE, I don't think Scott is scum, unless there's a cc, there's no reason to disbelieve a2rude's claim, and I know I'm town.

FoS: CallMeLiam

[Me=Weird]

I don't think it was scum driven, as me(not scum) and robo were driving it.
So you don't like a mass-claim, but you see what's good about it.
As I said, it was more PoE. Interesting that you don't like using inactivity as a scum-tell when you're so inactive.
Well, as I claim VT, there aren't any cc's, so a2rude practically can't be scum. I think you're scum, along with my first pick, copper.

I will wait for copper's response, and depending on it, may vote as the deadlines in a few days.

[Me=Weird]

CML, it's not you inactivity, it's the contentlessness of your posts. I'm not the one who said the [sic] wagon was scum driven either. Anyway, with deadline, voting now, and copper not responding to my case,

Vote: Copper

[Me=Weird]

EBWOP: "you're", not you.

[Me=Weird]

double EBWOP: "your" not "you're" or "you".

[Me=Weird]

Unvote, Vote: CallMeLiam

[Me=Weird]

Lynch scene?

[Me=Weird]

Quick-topic. As you can see in it, we nailed a2rude.

All in all, a very nicely modded game. Just a couple things: As I PM'd you, bv310, linking to [sic]'s claim in the OP could be seen as confirming it or interfering with the game.
The death scene, "Mangled corpse", may have slightly implied there to be werewolves. Gotta be careful with flavor. Same if it had been mafia and you said "so-and-so got shot".
Also, excellent set-up choice.