A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[hasdgfas]

Welcome Hasdgfas!

Unvote;

Vote: Hasdgfas

boy that makes me feel welcome. I'm going to point out that newbies often replace out when they're under pressure because they don't know what else to do. I mean, he's Townsperson. Plus, he said he was too busy to play, so I'm calling party foul on this vote, because he didn't disappear, he replaced out.
I will commence catching up. Expect a post at some point tonight, although I'm not sure exactly when.

also, you can call me Cow if you don't want to try to spell my actual username

[hasdgfas]

Firstly,

@Mod:

I would like to ask where, exactly, you found "site time"? Everytime I've had this discussion before, it was decided that there is no "site time" as it can be changed. Does the Mod know something I don't?

Mod ~ It's uh... the time in Westeros? I based site time off a different game. But either way, just go with the countdown, that's how I'll be basing it.

Now, here we go. For reference: This is in chronological order "as I read"

Post 10 - Drippereth: :-/ seriously?
Post 15 - Mina: I can't tell if you're joking about this or not. Either way, I don't see how helpful it will be. Unless you see something I don't, there are no obvious scum factions here.
Post 18 - LMP: random.org voting is something I consider votable, and I would if I had been in the game from the start. Don't do it. It's scummy.
Post 23 - MacavityLock: Ah good, someone who's actually thinking with regards to Raising in early game.
Post 26 - CMAR: I'm not a fan of this, actually. Something about the post rubs me the wrong way. It may just be a joke, but I find that looking at people's jokes is a decent way to figure out their alignment. IGMEOY
Post 31 - danakillsu: Well obviously we're not going to keep our votes there. An early Hand vote on yourself is correct, for the reason that you only know you to be town(if you are).
Post 50 - Drippereth: How is it any more IIoA than the majority of the game so far?
Post 56 - animorph: Why is this all you have to say so far?
Post 58 - CMAR: Not agreeing to the contract. Why should I change playstyle because you want me to? Also, some people like their RVS. Declaring it over doesn't make it so. You continually declaring that it is over just makes me feel iffy.
Post 62 - Richard: Well, honestly, those are awful reasons. Feels like distancing to me, actually.
Post 74 - animorph: Is that really it? This is dumb. Why aren't you saying more?
Post 92 - Richard: DO NOT RESPOND TO QUOTES WITHIN THE QUOTE TAGS. That's one of my BIGGEST pet peeves because it makes it really hard to read your posts and tell what's your words and what isn't.
Post 98 - CMAR: I'm still getting strange vibes from your posts. Something feels off from you here.
Post 99 - Richard: AtE, sure, sure. lecturing, eh, I can see it. Believes he's in control, ok. Resorting to profanity, hmm? This is different from AtE in this case?
Post 110 - vezo: Double voter's power is overrated. When we raise a hand, what actually happens is that we have TWO voting histories to look at, and a great way to be able to read someone and how they use their double vote.
Post 125 - Drippereth: Not everything that isn't analysis is IIoA. WHY is this IIoA?
Post 135 - Drippereth: That doesn't mean anything. Minds can change about theory in 2+ months.
Post 146 - Unsight: So minds can't change in 3 months? *sigh*
Post 153 - vezo: *sigh* don't softclaim please. And do you have any thoughts about player scumminess as opposed to who the Hand is?
Post 158 - Benmage: GAH! Don't point it out. Ugh. AAAAAH! And why drippereth?
Post 177 - Mina: Townleading is often a scumtell because of scum trying to stand out as town, as opposed to town, who are trying to scumhunt. HUGE difference.
Post 203 - SSBF: I don't understand the contradiction you're pointing out, SSBF. And a FoS? This smells like scum.
Post 211 - Richard: Why are you trying to explain Axelrod's vote?

And with that, I am caught up.

also,

unvote, unraise

ScumReads:
Richard/CMAR: It just feels to me like they're distancing. Something's felt off to me about their entire back-and-forth.
SSBF: Also feels very off to me. His posts just don't seem......genuine. Especially the FoS on Richard. Gah, awful.

questions for people:
@Vezo: Is English your first language?
@Axelrod: I don't see any scumhunting from you. What are your thoughts on scumminess of certain players? For instance, Dr Modem. You say he's scummy, but don't give reasons. You didn't comment on them in any of your previous posts. What are they? Why did it take you so long to change your vote?
also @Axelrod: COuld you please explain the contradiction in the two posts of Drippereth that you claimed were contradictory?
@Percy: Why is it that a case on a player is scummy? Because there's nothing else there? Why does he have to vote to raise someone? Why does he have to discuss how to do it?
@Richard: What are your thoughts on players who aren't CMAR or Drippereth? I highly doubt there are only two scum, are there any other players that you believe are scum?

[hasdgfas]

Catchup posts like yours give me townvibes, but I'd like you to put your vote somewhere. Catchup posts like Hayker's give me scumvibes.

Nobody jumps out at me yet as "scummiest". I gave my scumreads. I'd like my questions answered and would like to see a couple things while I'm actually in the game before I vote.

Also, I use "site time" when I run my games; it's the time as displayed on the

Forum Index

page, top left corner.

Go to 'profile', scroll down until you see "timezone", change it, and that number changes. There is no "site time" if that's what you're using.

Let me explain the contradiction since you don't see it.

ISO: 5: RichardGHP called it halirious that CryMeARiver had a genuine scum read on him after page three, saying nothing has really happen yet.

ISO: 6: Votes CryMeARiver for trying to lead town out of RVS on Page 2.

Now why is this a contradiction? RichardGHP basically said he denided that you could get a genuine scum read on a person after page three, then back pedels himself by saying he didn't like CryMeARiver for trying to lead town out of RVS.

As for the FoS, I'm not sure why you consider that a problem (Maybe I didn't explain why I found it scummy). At the time, I considered your slot scummier then RichardGHP.

Well, I'm not sure Richard said he had a "genuine scum read" on CMAR, just that he thought he was the best option at the time, which is why he voted.
Plus, I had no idea you thought my slot was scummier. You didn't mention anything about Dr Modem/Me in that post, no "I still think Modem is scummier than Richard". It just looked like you were being overly cautious in terms of jumping on the wagon.

also @Axelrod: COuld you please explain the contradiction in the two posts of Drippereth that you claimed were contradictory?

Well, in the first quote she says she assumes the Double-Voter will be Doc protected this game. Presumably one would think this because one thinks this is a role worth protecting?

In the second quote she says she doesn't see what's so precious about a Double Vote - like it's no big deal (and, presumably, not worthy of auto-Doc protection). Like, that seems fairly obvious to me. Not you?

Well, I felt that the first quote was more meaning about how we choose the double voter, so it's someone that people expect to be town(unless we didn't raise someone we thought was town, which would be silly), and someone worthy of protection.
The second quote, I thought, was meaning that the power wasn't that great comparatively. It's not that the power is protect-worthy, but the player is, at least this Night.

RVS for me doesn't end until day 2.

I've played mafia on other sites.

I should say that there is no random vote "period" in my mind. I make one random vote unless something solid grabs my attention.

Luckily dr modem isnt around to explain this.

If you have an issue with it, vote for me. I'm in the playerslot now, so if you really think it's that much of an issue, vote for me. Bringing up things from Modem for no reason is scummy, and just a way to get people suspicious of me without putting yourself out there.

[hasdgfas]

5)

@Cow:

if you weren't paying attention, I explained the nameclaiming joke two posts down. It's a reference to Faraday's

A Game of Thrones

mini, which had a few of the same players. Re: townleading, I see where Percy (funny, his read on Richard is pretty much the same as mine on CMAR) is coming from more than you. When I think of townleading, I think of vocal players who are very active and engaged, play assertively, lead lynches, and try to solve the game. Accusing someone of being scum for "leading the town" (read: playing well) is one of my absolute worst pet peeves.

Also, you realize that Unsight's point was that people

can

change their mind over three months, right?

Yes, I saw the explanation, but didn't think much of it either way when I read it over time. Keep in mind that at the time I mentioned your post, I hadn't seen your explanation
Re:Unsight's post: It seems to be worded strangely if that's the case.
Also, THANK YOU for helping me see one of the reasons why SSBF was making me feel strange about him. I hadn't noticed the appeasement particularly, but I did feel weird about that post and couldn't figure out why.

English is not my first language.

All right, that was my guess. How comfortable are you with the language?

Okay, I will get caught up soon, but to those voting to raise axelrod, I would just like to say that whoever gets the double vote will likely die quickly and axelrod already endorsed me getting the double vote. I'm willing to take that sacrifice for town. I'll admit axel seems to be a very good player and I'll likely take his advice into consideration when using a double vote. Just putting it out there.
By the way, glad to see the Richard wagon is taking off. Pillars of the evil king's castle are finally falling 2day.

BUDDYING ALERT. BUDDYING ALERT. MAN THE HATCHES

vote: CMAR

Not just that, but trying to take the double vote from axelrod as a "sacrifice" rubs me incredibly wrong. Plus, saying he'll likely take axel's advice under consideration is NOT a town move. It's a scum move. If you're town, why wouldn't you use your vote as YOUR VOTE. If you're going to just take his advice, we should give it to him. Also, the acknowledgement of the Richard wagon give me bad vibes. Wish I could put my finger on why.

Who would be in favor of raising the Drippereth hydra? Who would be against? Please explain your decision.

No. I have too many problems trying to read a hydra to give you a double vote. The only possible way I'd consider it is if you each started signing your posts with whichever of you two made it.

[hasdgfas]

Claim: Renly Baratheon

I am Robert's youngest brother. I have decided to be King, but their are currently bigger problems to attend to.

If I die, Ser Loras is able to perform one kill to attemp to avenge me. Therefore, I know Ser Loras is in the game. However, I do not know who (s)he is and what alignment they are. If Ser Loras dies before I do, nothing happens upon my death..

Do you have a rolename or some more flavor?
This role also sounds INCREDIBLY like the Godfather in Vengeful, where someone makes a kill after they die. Not a big fan of this, as I could see a "Renly-aligned" faction.

One thing that struck me as odd about the claim is that Ser Loras does the veng killing....I would've imagined Brienne doing that, but perhaps Brienne isn't in the game and this is how things had to work...ahh headache

Either of the two of them would make sense. And Brienne's a pretty important part of the books, I'd assume she's in the game.

Okay, I will get caught up soon, but to those voting to raise axelrod, I would just like to say that whoever gets the double vote will likely die quickly and axelrod already endorsed me getting the double vote. I'm willing to take that sacrifice for town. I'll admit axel seems to be a very good player and I'll likely take his advice into consideration when using a double vote. Just putting it out there.
By the way, glad to see the Richard wagon is taking off. Pillars of the evil king's castle are finally falling 2day.

Uh, yuck?

Unraise: CryMeARiver

Like, I don't usually mind when people suck up to me, but this is kind of over the top. Also, it's

hardly

like I'd firmly decided you were my guy here.

To Richard: do you know if this bonus kill is immediate, or takes place during the subsequent night? For instance, were you lynched, would Loras kill someone before the Night technically started, or would it happen as a regular action during the Night. And I assume he can't hold it for later, but has to use it right then? Could he elect NOT to use it?

Mod

: I'm pretty sure I'm not voting for anyone.

That was for a reason, and a breadcrumb. Sorry if it was scummy guys. I'm not

copping

out of the Richard wagon either, I just like his claim.

[hasdgfas]

unvote

Seems a legit claim to me. I guess the one who gets the extra kill is town. Vengeance for a scum is pretty weird.

Even though the role is basically exactly the same as Vengeful Godfather in Vengeful 5?

Calling for a claim at L-2 is poor form. Claims are for when a player is at L-1 and another player has declared their willingness to hammer them, not before.

I'm going to have to disagree here. It completely depends on game size. In a game this size, L-2 is fine, especially when it's 14 to lynch. That's

double

the usual mini. Claims at L-2 lower the chance of an accidental lynch in a big game.



Also, Why is nobody else amazed at the fact that CMAR

said

he was breadcrumbing? Why would you ever say that at a point where you're not going to claim? That's just such a scum move. I just don't think that town would act like that, pointing out their breadcrumb, because if it was true, that would bring the scum on them. If they're scum, they can just say it and know they'll probably be around to explain it later.

Raise: Percy

I've been impressed with his posts so far and would be more happy with him having two votes than anyone else here.

[hasdgfas]

I was Jon Snow in the mini and fakeclaimed I could get 1 kill with my Direwolf.

did you claim that the Direwolf was another player in the game? And that it got a kill when you died? Because that's what Richard's claiming. Not that he gets a kill.

Raise: CrymeaRiver

I like his aggresive RVS play and he wants it.

What did you like about it? Why is wanting a double vote a good reason to give it to someone?

[hasdgfas]

There's just way too much "certainty" floating around in this thread. I absolutely hate it when people just start calling other people "scum" and act like they have it all figured out and it's case-closed when the truth is they know

nothing

. They have a

hunch

. An

opinion

.

I recognize this is a "style" thing for a lot of people, and they'll flip from calling someone obv.scum to deciding they are clearly town at the drop of a hat, and then immediately press on with their next "obviously scum" target, conveniently ignoring how horribly wrong they were the last time they called someone "obv.scum" and it drives me

nuts

. Please STFU or use some damn qualifiers. When you do this you are either being dishonest or you are just being a moron.

/rant

I don't know why I bothered to type this out. Maybe I'm having a bad day or something.

Ok, this feels off. If you're going to say this, call people out, explain why you hate it or why it's scummy. It feels like you just are uncomfortable and dislike a playstyle. Why does it matter?

You've just described our playstyle.

What you fail to realize is that there is a lot of thought going into the flippant comments; we play a lot of games; the certainties are shorthand and qualifiers are assumed, so they don't need spelling out.

Your rant is, in fact, quite scummy. It's an underhanded criticism of us, without the balls of naming us, and just a big ole IIoA.

I fail to realize? No.

It is a style that annoys me greatly. Defend it and all the great results you get using it all you want, this won't change.

I also don't even know what IIoA means.

Even though it annoys you, is it scummy? if not, deal with it. This feels just like a way to ignore a player.

FoS: Axelrod

[hasdgfas]

I didn't really find anyone else that drew my attention all that much. I'm still trying to get a feel for reading people out. Conversely,I'm quite confident in my top picks for town at this point, which are: Percy, Drippereth, and MacavityLock - in that order. They're all taking a unique approach to how they address people, but for the most part all seem pretty objective in what they've been saying.

Why do you feel that throwing out town reads is a good idea? In addition, I don't understand why a unique approach to addressing people and being "objective" in what they're saying(what does that even mean?) means for being town or not. Why could they not do this as scum? Do you have any posts in particular that make you think that?

Here are some questions for you.
What do you think of CMAR?
What do you think of Kleedrac and the fact that his bandwagon has grown so quickly?
What do you think of Richard and his claim?

[hasdgfas]

Why do you feel that throwing out town reads is a good idea? In addition, I don't understand why a unique approach to addressing people and being "objective" in what they're saying(what does that even mean?) means for being town or not. Why could they not do this as scum? Do you have any posts in particular that make you think that?

Do you think calling out town reads are a bad thing?

I'm not a fan of it, as I feel it helps scum more than town. Players who are called town by a decent number of people, if they're scum can hide behind other players' town reads, and if they're town make for easy scum targets


@Mina: This may be blasphemy to your playstyle, but maybe refrain from making long rambling posts all the time? It may help you stay caught up.

[hasdgfas]

On Richard's claim, I'm guessing his character is actually his character because Renly is a fairly prominent character and would fit well in this game in terms of flavor. As other's have said, that does not determine alignment. I could easily see this set of characters and abilities fitting in with a scum faction. His ability claim may very well be true. If anyone in Renly's camp (including Ser Loras) flips scum then Richard should be auto-lynched the next day.

This seems off to me. What if someone from Renly's camp fits scum, but the faction is something Renly wouldn't fit in? Should we still lynch him?

[hasdgfas]

@hasdgfas

: I understand why you don't like townreads (though I disagree), but why call out Mikujin for it, and not Drippereth?

because I know calling out Drippereth won't do anything, and I know that from previous experience that reads from DGB are all over the place, with no elaboration, change somewhat often, and that they're rarely listened to, regardless of correctness or not.

Raise Percy

oh, hello richard. Why's this? I don't really see a reason for it from you.

[hasdgfas]

oh, Raivann, you wonderful scum you. Thank you for making this easier.

incredible OMGUS on a bunch of people suspicious of you without being backed up by cases? Reeks of scum to me.

FoS

Still prefer CMAR who's been so quiet lately now that focus is off of him.

[hasdgfas]

ok, the move has completely disoriented me, not the least reason because WT disappeared. Give me a day or so to figure things out again.

[hasdgfas]

Funny you mention his interaction with Cow. I actually thought that although Cow has done a lot of things that look townish this game, he came off badly in his interaction with Axelrod. I mean, I took Axel's vote as a fairly casual pressure vote, but Cow's first post was really overdefensive:

boy that makes me feel welcome. I'm going to point out that newbies often replace out when they're under pressure because they don't know what else to do. I mean, he's Townsperson. Plus, he said he was too busy to play, so I'm calling party foul on this vote, because he didn't disappear, he replaced out.

Why the need for the long justification?

overdefensiveness is a misnomer. Why should I keep from using every reason I have to defend myself? I don't think calling people on overdefensiveness is a good idea, because it's so subjective and can be claimed on anything. It's a good way for scum to tunnel on someone, from what I've found, claiming overdefensive when they're defending themselves from someone's case. And you call that long? It's three sentences, not like I wrote a novel.

And the following, in particular, is the kind of thing scum say when they see someone under suspicion and try to join in with their own unique point, but end up talking out of their ass:

Even though it annoys you, is it scummy? if not, deal with it. This feels just like a way to ignore a player.

FoS: Axelrod

The last sentence is what really bugs me. Cow, what do you think the scum motivation is, anyway, for trying to "ignore a player" by saying they find their playstyle annoying? If you'd complained that it was filler instead of scumhunting, fine. But I cannot believe that you genuinely think someone is likely to be scum for that.

"ignore a player" wasn't the best wording of what I meant there. Discredit is probably better. I was trying to go for "get the town to ignore" rather than just him. There's pretty obvious reasons why scum would want to do that.

[hasdgfas]

Not just that she's defending me (though I admit that helps), but she's writing really passionately, which is just hard to fake as scum.

I understand the second part a bit, but why does defending you make you think she's town? That always makes me uncomfortable.

[hasdgfas]

Why are you being so defensive SSBF?

This relates to a past Mafia game on Smash World Forums that just recently finished called Dragonball Z Mafia. I took a TON of heat during the game. Major points against me included parroting. Combined with other things and that nearly got me killed Day 2. Had it not been for my claim (I was Town Jailer), I would have completely and utterly given up on the game and I would have permanently left the section of Smash World Forums where they played Mafia.

It basically relates back to meta.

erme this sounds exactly like AtE. "I run away when I'm under pressure." I'm sorry, but I really hate that.

@I doubt it: Why shouldn't he defend himself? Do you believe there is such a thing as overdefensiveness? If so, how is it defined?

Whoa, I lost this game and just saw it on the "View Posts", I must have missed it on my subscriptions, so sorry guys

What do you think of Kleedrac? What do you think of Richard now? What do you think of Axelrod? Please play this game.

[hasdgfas]

Question: How many people at this point would be willing to lynch me today?

today? no. I believe the claim, although I'm still not 100% sure it's town. I'd rather analyze later play before deciding.

As part of scum hunting, I analyze posts and then I vote someone. The analysis part comes before the vote part because it's how I know I'm voting scum.

CSL did the exact opposite here. He votes Kleedrac and then analyzes Kleedrac's ISO.

FoS CSL

CSL, why did you do it this way?(I have a theory and have more to say about this, but would like a response from CSL first)

[hasdgfas]

Lurker scum CMAR should be killed. With 36 hours to deadline, even if he does show up to finally answer the many questions aimed his way, there will not be near enough time to properly discuss that information.

I think his play is incredibly troubling. I also think there is sufficient interactions with others (notably Richard and Axelrod) that his flip will be helpful.

[hasdgfas]

@Mods: Can you look into this?

I know there's an issue with posts being truncated if they're really really big.

[hasdgfas]

unvote
vote raviann

Everyone from CMAR wagon switch here. I don't want this day to end in a no lynch

We have two days. Patience.

Who do you think is more likely scum? You've been switching between whoever is the leading bandwagon, but do you think anyone is scum? or do you just want to end the day?

[hasdgfas]

Faraday, am I allowed to link to an on-going game?

I'll just say that CMAR was lynched in Gears of War Mafia (which I'm not playing) on D1 and flipped scum in it. You can read his ISO for yourself.

You aren't allowed to mention ongoing games or link to them. Site rules.

[hasdgfas]

HOLY SHIT! REREADING NOW!!

[hasdgfas]

@CMAR's last post: You haven't provided any contents whatsoever for the last few posts. All they've basically been were "I'm catching up!" excuse. I'm tired of waiting. Unless your claim is great, you can die.

Beric Dondarrion,

Innocent Aligned

My bolding. Something that was missing from Richard's claim, I'd like to point out.

Nice catch there. I should have noticed that ages ago.

It's in the first post. Saying that means nothing towards innocence. Any decent scum will have pointed it out to their buddies for their claims. This is why putting it in or leaving it out doesn't mean anything. Note that Richard

already replied to this

, yet you completely ignore his answer to it.

Im thinking we lynch richard for a win-win. If he is scum, yay. If he is telling truth, vig blows someone like CMAR up

Decent idea, but I feel that's not nearly as useful now as it would be later. There are way too many scummy-looking players to make a vengeful vig kill worthwhile.

[hasdgfas]

I would loooooove for SSBF to be the lynch for the day but apparently my ideas don't get steam unless they're restated with 5 times as many words like Julienvonwolfe did here.

I also think scum would be very reluctant to shoot Richard. That's win/win to me. We get a vengeance kill or a confirmed townie for the game.

Right, now that it looks like we're not lynching Raivann let's go for SSBF. We've got 24 hours, that's time, and there's a much better case on SSBF than on CMAR. (Reacting stupidly to claims seems to be in CMAR's meta since he did it to both Richard and Raivann, who based on their behaviour cannot both be on the same team, and so I don't think CMAR's reactions to claims can be counted as scummy.)

UNVOTE: Raivann
VOTE: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Do you really think a lynch count can be reached on him in that time?

[hasdgfas]

the password on my older account stopped working after the move.
And it had a typo in it. SO I thought I should change it then.

Hey vezo, please answer the questions I asked you earlier. They are important

[hasdgfas]

The Greatjon as a bulletproof? Hmmmmm. I'm not sure how well that fits. He was fearless, but the rest of the post doesn't seem to fit.
Not to mention the fact that bulletproof claims are often by scum means a CMAR lynch is fine with me.

Plus going through the format of his Role PM when there's an example in the first post.

[hasdgfas]

The fact that we managed to get rid of a Mafia Godfather is fantastic news for the town.

HI THERE MR SCUM HOW IS YOUR BLATANT SCUMTELL TODAY?

vote: SSBF

Also, Budja self killed? Booo, that is totally not win condition.

it's flavorful though, quite possible that Arya had hired him and told him to kill himself. But however it happened, I don't think it means what you think it means. Enough speculation. I should check a few things from D1.

[hasdgfas]

(Now hasdgfas, he's a lot better player)

Is there any reason for this besides buddying? I don't see it as any part of an argument that you're making or an explanation of anything. Why would you say this, and what are you trying to say?

Is it just me, or does anyone else get uncomfortable when someone feels the need to defend themselves by going into an account of what they were doing with their real life? I don't need to know you are going to take a shower and eat lunch before posting, I want an explanation of your actions in game. It feels almost like a type of AtE (I did/didn't do XYZ because I was busy in RL doing blah blah blah).

Yes, I fully agree with this. The game is its own entity, treat it as such. Don't use RL as an excuse for your gameplay. The only way RL should come into it is if you're V/LA, requesting replacement, or got hit by a car or something.

[hasdgfas]

Workin on a catchup/reread from my last post on pg 23...hence the delay.

I almost forgot you were in the game. Please come with good stuff.

[hasdgfas]

@Mina: I understand your CSL case, I think it has a lot of merit, and I know you don't want us to forget it. That said, CSL is looking very unlikely to be the lynch right now. Why not help us and get behind dana or SSBF?

Mostly this. It's almost definitely not happening today, because I think SSBF is much worse, but if that breaks down for some reason, I'll gladly look closer at CSL. SSBF is just so incredibly scummy right now it's insane.

[hasdgfas]

Vote me all you want. I usually get lynched all the time, actually.

-_-
Have you thought that might mean you need to change something about your play?

[hasdgfas]

Wow rereadin this thread is painful...everyone writes so much and says so little...hopefully no more replacements.

Soooo how long can I keep this lurking/active lurking going?? How have I not been lynched yet ....I just finished catchinup the end of D1...what a mess...

That puts me on pg 37... I know I'm not done catchin up yet... however where there any lingering D1 questions that people wanted me to address??

FoS: Benmage

for admitting to lurking/active lurking

Hey benmage, how about you give us some ideas of your thoughts of what you've reread so far?

[hasdgfas]

@Benmage
Anything interesting to say, or are you just going to blindly follow the town? I see no reason not to claim now, so here it is:
I am Brynden Tully, Innocent Aligned. I used to be a Gate Knight, but quit because of Lysa. Now I fight for Westeros. Each night I can jail someone, protecting them from an NK, but also roleblocking them.

could you give some flavor as to why you're a jailer? There isn't any, and this makes zero sense.

[hasdgfas]

So I got a prod and that means I need to come back and find more scum so here you go:

LynchMePls is more town than all the players I've ever declared to be townies. And that's never going to change. So he gets the green.

LynchMePls is scum. He hops on the RichardGHP wagon shortly after 2 different posts saying he believes RichardGHP's claim. He hops on the Raivann wagon at the very tail end when it was almost certain Raivann was going to be the lynch and then goes back to RichardGHP as fast as possible (with his very next post).

LynchMePls also works with Drippereth to fight the Raivann wagon directly here. In fact, rereading LMP's ISO with regards to Drippereth is very interesting overall. I recommend it to everyone.

UNVOTE: SSBF
VOTE: LynchMePls

I'm still fine with a SSBF lynch but the Raivann <-> LynchMePls <-> Drippereth connection really is

that

good.

This vote is a very bad idea. Just saying.

[hasdgfas]

It IS my style to only give one or two townreads. My ability is just called "jail", and the flavor connection to that ability is that I was a Gate Knight. That's not EXACTLY what he called me, but I don't want to quote my PM.

A Gate Knight? I don't remember seeing that term in any of the books, although I may be mistaken.

[hasdgfas]

I like dana's answer, but now I think about it, he could be a scum jailor.

The only way to find out if he's telling the truth is to lynch him, tbh.

UNVOTE; VOTE: danakillsu

..........

[hasdgfas]

It's really easy to see the people actually putting a case forward versus the blatant wagon-ers especially toward the end.

would you rather the "blatant wagoners" made a case that was exactly the same as someone else's?

[hasdgfas]

Number 2 scum: Cow
Calls Raivann scum multiple times but never votes for him. Active lurker.

multiple times? I just looked through my posts and only appear to have called him scum once. In addition, active lurker is highly inaccurate. That means posting but not saying anything, doing things such as "hey guys, I'm here". What I'm doing is known as "not posting all the time". So do you have any good reasons?

ATTENTION UNSIGHT –

You seem perfectly willing to ignore questions directly put to you.

I'm not ignoring anyone. I just had the unfortunate timing to be making my catchup post(s) at the exact time the thread was being locked for the event.

Unless I missed something, you never answered my question to you..

[hasdgfas]

@ Cow
Who really cares whether you interpret your posts as only calling him scum once? I infer this in other posts, but even one is enough. And your active lurking is apparent in the few words that you actually have to say. This is true of vezo as well, of course.

Could you point out the posts that you infer this from, and where I ever said that I thought Raivann was scummier than anyone else I was voting with.
In addition, point 2 is awful. Just because I'm not walling doesn't mean I'm not making good points.

[hasdgfas]

@Cow
Like I already said, it's not important whether you said it multiple times, but iso 20 seems to be telling vezo that Raivann is a good lynch, but doesn't need to be lynched right away. That's what I would mean by "patience", anyway.

oh. oh. ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. I see. No. Vezo said that he didn't want the day to end in a no lynch and that everyone should vote for raivann. I was telling him to be patient because we had two days until deadline and had plenty of time to figure out who to lynch.

[hasdgfas]

You do realize that my first post with the throne was in RVS.

You know, I was thinking before that you were just playing a bit differently due to English not being your first language, but this is one of the most awful defenses I've ever seen. If not for the fact that SSBF is so incredibly scummy, I'd probably switch my vote at this point.

[hasdgfas]

For those who are leaning Vezo scum, I'd like to call your attention to the three people voting him:

Vezipiraka (3) -

Danakillsu, Drippereth, MacavityLock

Pretty sure 2 of those 3 are scum, and the other very well could be too. Just saying. Of course they could be on different scum teams, but I was just rereading the day when I noticed this.

This post doesn't seem to say anything. What are you trying to say here? You're pointing it out, but why?

[hasdgfas]

hey guys, remember how we started out looking at SSBF? Notice how now that nobody's talking about him, he's vanished?

[hasdgfas]

Doesn't scream case...you mind bulleting the case for me.

1) he's scum
2) since we've been focusing on dana, he's disappeared
3) he's trying too hard to look town
4) he's scum
5) he decided to point out how good it was that a godfather died, when it's really obvious that it's good and pointing it out is only trying to get town points
6) he didn't vote for Raivann right away, instead choosing to FoS and HoS him before a vote
7) he's scum

that enough bulleting for you?

[hasdgfas]

Doesn't scream case...you mind bulleting the case for me.

1) he's scum
2) since we've been focusing on dana, he's disappeared
3) he's trying too hard to look town
4) he's scum
5) he decided to point out how good it was that a godfather died, when it's really obvious that it's good and pointing it out is only trying to get town points
6) he didn't vote for Raivann right away, instead choosing to FoS and HoS him before a vote
7) he's scum

that enough bulleting for you?

Pretty bad actually. 3 zeros and (2) doesn't fit into chronology. (3) is a bad statement...I mean explain more or highlight...Come on man its campaign time the hour is near! (5) is a weakass point I've seen town do this all the time. (6) Intent to vote, followed by (vote?) ...seems meh. I don't like FoS's or HoS's to begin with, do you?

Anything more concrete?

ISO him and tell me you can't see it and I can give you more.

[hasdgfas]

ISO him and tell me you can't see it and I can give you more.

The time is near, you'd think if you thought him scum you could be more convincing. Why must I iso him if the information is readily available in your mind. I could walk away from the computer going meh and you'd be no closer to lynching someone you believe to be scum with a rapidly approaching deadline. This is some obstinate behavior I dislike. Do you even think SSBF is scummy?

What happened to this energy:

SSBF is just so incredibly scummy right now it's insane.

I suppose I could iso him, but I think I'm gonna analyze this SSBF wagon first to see if the voters hold the key or if the wagon has merit... for I am trying to campaign voters onto dana.

I've had a rough Day 2. I had to deal with taking control of a game where the mod flaked, and the dana wagon just doesn't do much for me, so I haven't had much to say. My activity tends to fluctuate in games anyway

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

didn't say I am, I just think SSBF is scummier. Honestly, I'm iffy on dana's claim, as I said before, but I think SSBF is a higher priority, and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise.

[hasdgfas]

Forgot to mention this in my last post. I was /prodded.

we know. why are you pointing this out?

[hasdgfas]

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

didn't say I am, I just think SSBF is scummier. Honestly, I'm iffy on dana's claim, as I said before, but I think SSBF is a higher priority,

and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise

.

So you don't like Percy's case?

what a great strawman. I said SSBF is a higher priority,

not

that dana isn't scummy.

[hasdgfas]

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

didn't say I am, I just think SSBF is scummier. Honestly, I'm iffy on dana's claim, as I said before, but I think SSBF is a higher priority,

and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise

.

So you don't like Percy's case?

what a great strawman. I said SSBF is a higher priority,

not

that dana isn't scummy.

Mmm my mistake. So why do you think dana is scummy(Percy reasoning?), and why not as a high a priority as SSBF?

you could go with Percy reasoning, but that's not the entire thing. Doing a quick look-through, he seemed to be suspicious of a bunch of people who voted for him, and I always feel iffy about people who do that. He's not as high priority as SSBF IMO, because I don't think he's as scummy as SSBF. How is that so hard to believe? I'd vote for dana to get a lynch near deadline, but I'd prefer an SSBF lynch.

[hasdgfas]

How is that so hard to believe? I'd vote for dana to get a lynch near deadline, but I'd prefer an SSBF lynch.

Yes, I'm tired of beating this dead horse for now. My inquiries were largely because of the crappy bulleted case I was presented with. But we can move on.

you asked for bullets

[hasdgfas]

Step Forward

, as that seems to be flavor of the day. Now I have to read up the 5 pages or so I missed due to unexpected spontaneous lack of internet(can explain further if need be)

[hasdgfas]

Post 1394 - Benmage: What a bizarre twosome. Why those two?
Post 1395 - diddin: :goodvote:
Post 1396 - Benmage: I thought the same thing, but why specifically rereading him?
Post 1400 - SSBF: This has to be the most bizarre question I've ever seen in my life. Why the heck are you asking it?
Post 1405 - Benmage: I said this yesterday and you dismissed it. Why the change of heart?
Post 1411 - Richard: Do it anyway. Can't hurt anything.
Post 1419 - Axelrod: When there are two scumteams, they have to scumhunt as well. Because of that, I'm not sure what you're getting at with the last paragraph.
Post 1427 - Mina: I think I see what you're getting at, however: A) not sure it should be revealed yet. B) Why ask me in particular?. C)

@Percy:

should I reveal everything?
Post 1438 - Mina: I'm not sure I've been called "obvtown" as opposed to people just having town reads on me. That's perfectly possible, isn't it? People just thinking I'm town, even if you don't? Not everyone's reads are the same
Post 1440 - vezo: You know what. How about you actually play the game? That's the best way to do this. 2 lines in each post, with no explanation, and a promise of only bandwagoning, doesn't help your defense

at all

.
Post 1441 - SSBF:

THOR, do NOT answer this question if you haven't already. There is NO TOWN REASON TO

.
Post 1443 - Locke: :eyebrows:



strange day so far.
Firstly, SSBF needs to be dead.

Vote: SSBF

Percy needs to show up today.
Mina seems to be acting strangely. Something seems off, but I'm not sure whether it's scummy strange or just weird strange.

That's it for now, planning to post something tomorrow, but while I'm thinking of it.

@MOD: V/LA until Tuesday.

I'll be able to post(hopefully) every day except Monday though, just not often.

[hasdgfas]

2. He died and flipped scum...

I know he died and flipped scum, but why did his interactions with i doubt it specifically make you think he wasn't Lannister?

Post 1405 - Benmage: I said this yesterday and you dismissed it. Why the change of heart?

I don't even recall. But I can lookup what occurred and guesstimate if you like.

Oh, please do so. I have my own theory, but I'd like to hear your explanation for it first.

I think this is worth claiming now, and I see that hasdgfas ignored Mina's question.

LynchMePls was the master of the Kingsguard, and he was able to recruit five players to a QT. The players he invited were:
-Myself
-Mina
-hasdgfas
-Drippereth
-julienvonwolfe

julienvonwolfe was a last-minute recruit to the Kingsguard. Drippereth and LynchMePls are now also dead. Thus only three of us are left.

Now as Mina hinted, two of the Kingsguard kills were by Lannisters. Scum recruited to Kingsguard would want to off the Kingsguard as soon as possible. I'll go into more detail throughout my post.

Yes, because "hey Percy, should I reveal this" is ignoring the question
You're also missing Raivann, who, after he claimed vig, was recruited to the KG so we could try to direct his kill. Did you just forget about him?

Might as well if it helps catch scum.

Claim: "The Hound" Sandor Clegane, Innocent Aligned

I used to work for the Lannisters, but now I work on my own.

I have no powers other than a vote.

Claim makes sense from my end, honestly. He does kinda run away during

Clash

(I just finished reading that one), but whatever.

So, reveal time. I'm Littlefinger. My information tells me a player's role name. I claimed very vaguely because wanted to see if Percy found it necessary to safeclaim, which I suspected he almost certainly would. I was warned that some characters can deceive me, which makes sense with both godfathers dead.

*watch this space* More later.

Percy is not Melisandre. Percy is Asha Greyjoy.

lololololol

@hascow - can you please put context with your links. It's very time consuming to have to click on 10 different links to follow your train of thought. Thanks

Links are (mostly) only for catch-up posts, and putting context with them makes me take way too long to catch up.

Post 1488(Last vote count, just for you Baltar):

@MOD: I voted for SSBF in my last post

Later, I'll paraphrase everyone's posts in the QT to point out possible links and distancing.

Ask the mod before you do so. Some get really touchy about QT discussions going into the thread, especially if you're being blatant about them being from there.

For the record, guys, after hascow's horrendous response to my hint about the nightkills, I'm 80% sure that hascow is a Lannister. He also got very defensive in the QT last night when Percy suggested that the early SSBF voters might have been Lannisters.

horrendous Because making sure that revealing is the right choice is horrendous with no other explanation. And I've already been over the defensive thing.

Why shouldn't I defend myself with everything I have? Nobody wants to be lynched, so they should defend themselves

[hasdgfas]

The Percy death post alone is making me more interested in actually reading the books - sounds like some interesting flavor to the stories.

DO IT NOW

unvote
Vote SSBF

I got saved by a miracle. Yay for me.

Is this pure bandwagoning or do you actually think he is scummy? Could you please say more in your posts? You're not going to stay alive(which seems to be your goal) by posting like this.

Regarding the cop investigation scan, the scummiest person should be investigated while the second scummiest should be lynched and vice versa. We will gain the most information that way.

Really? You'd rather investigate someone scummy than someone that's hard to read and a ton of people are unsure about? That's slightly bizarre, IMO.

This has to be the most bizarre question I've ever seen in my life. Why the heck are you asking it?

The reason why I asked the question was because I had an idea that could help kill scums faster. I thought if we were allowed joint lynches that we could use that oppertunity to kill two scums in one Day, which would increase the chance of town winning.[/quote]
I. What?

But looking at your iso and how you hold dana on the sideline calling him scummy but refuse to take action there and pursue SSBF makes me think you are a Lannister. It looks very similar to the way I doubt it also acted. Keeping dana on the backburner calling him scum, but not acting on it.

I've been on SSBF all game. I'm not going to move from my top suspicion without good reason.


Dear me, people. Read the game and stop voting SSBF so close to a lynch and lose us a cop inv

unvote

so nothing stupid happens.

[hasdgfas]

But looking at your iso and how you hold dana on the sideline calling him scummy but refuse to take action there and pursue SSBF makes me think you are a Lannister. It looks very similar to the way I doubt it also acted. Keeping dana on the backburner calling him scum, but not acting on it.

I've been on SSBF all game. I'm not going to move from my top suspicion without good reason.

I'm not sold. The bullet case was nothing special. And I felt like I had to pull teeth to get you to campaign for someone your so convinced is scum. I want you to step forward. If you check out, I'd probably be fine with letting thor blow him away tomorrow.

I've already stepped forward.

[hasdgfas]

Mina (or anyone in the Kingsguard) - when did LMP's invitation get sent out to the first group? That would be good to know for context in reading those that are in the Guard.

xvart.

I got it basically as soon as night started, iirc. He seemed to have most of his picks settled right away. Except for jvw

[hasdgfas]

Cow, what I'd like to see from you is heavy-duty scumhunting instead of soft questions, superficial observations, and defence.

Questions are my main scumhunting tool. "heavy-duty scumhunting" differs from person-to-person. If I feel I need to make a case on someone, I will, but don't try to tell me I'm not scumhunting because I don't do it the same way as you. I'm scumhunting in my own way.

Answer this:

1) Which two players do you think are most likely to be Greyjoys?

2) Which two players do you think are most likely to be Lannisters?

3) Whom do you think should be investigated today? (Obviously, you want SSBF lynched.)

4) Do you think I'm a Lannister, given the Kingsguard poisonings (and given that you should know you're not guilty if you're town)?

1) SSBF(duh), Mikujin(look at his reaction to Locke's softclaim.)
2) Unsight(went after LMP yesterday and had a couple people say "don't do that" makes me wonder....)(actually, I may look through Unsight to see what I can see here, there's more than I thought.), CSL(vibes)
3) as of right now, me. I want your fears assuaged, and it seems like a bunch of other people want to be sure I'm town to pay more attention to my reads. Other than me, xvart. I don't have a clue what I think of him.
4) Tell me why you're asking the question and I'll tell you my answer. This seems like an entirely loaded question that you can jump on me for my answer regardless(seen these

way

too often in games), so tell me why you're asking it.

This strikes me as weak justification for not being on an alternate wagon to SSBF. I agree with Benmage about Cow not really having a solid case or being able to articulate it. I'm starting to believe that this wagon might have been just an alternative to either the CSL or the dana wagon; but more than likely the dana wagon since CSL was obviously not going anywhere. And, Cow doesn't even mention anything about dana; the offer to switch to either wagon is presented and he'll look at CSL (not dana, the other leading wagon) if the SSBF wagon breaks down.

Because CSL was the one being discussed? I was already looking at dana due to him being the other leading wagon. I should think that would be obvious.

Also the point Benmage raised about Cow active lurking and Cow coming back to say he wasn't "active lurking" but just not posting (lurking) is odd. Why split hairs about this unless he was trying minimize the perceived scummy behavior?

Dana was the one who called me out for active lurking, btw. Anyway, my pet peeve is claims to anyone of active lurking when it's not active lurking. There's huge differences in connotation between the two.
I also did not say I'm lurking.

HUGE

leap in logic from me saying "I'm not posting all the time" to me saying "I'm lurking". I

really

dislike that twisting of words.

FoS

Cow, what town benefit do you think would have been gained for the KG to know everyone's role name or role?

It locks them into a claim, whether rolename or role. Claiming something that, if you change it later, there are 6 others to call you out on is an incredibly powerful tool.


I'm going to look at Unsight soon. Hopefully today, but no promises, as I'm still technically on vacation.

[hasdgfas]

@hasdgfas: Okay, wait a minute. You said that you would want to investigate someone you had no clue about. One of those people you want want to investigate is xvart, saying you had no clue about him. But then you put down a FoS on him. Putting down a FoS on a person indicates that you find the person suspicious in some way or form, so it kind of moots the point about you having no clue about xvart.

What the heck are you talking about? Just because someone did something suspicious doesn't mean I have a clue about their alignment. Town people do suspicious things often, that's why there are mislynches. One thing that they do that I hate doesn't mean I have a solid read on them.

Really? You'd rather investigate someone scummy than someone that's hard to read and a ton of people are unsure about? That's slightly bizarre, IMO.

If we investigate a person that is hard to read and turns up town, we would end up wasting an investigate that could be used on people that the majority suspect, which would yield more information. Not only that, the scum would have to kill that townie that the majority previously suspected. It helps town more to investigate someone scummy then someone with a null read.

LOGIC ERROR
DOES NOT COMPUTE
correct play is

never

investigate someone scummy. Would you like me to explain further? I can, but it just seems so obvious.

What?

I'm think we have six or seven anti-townies in the game overall. If we were able to do a joint-lynch between two people, this would increase the chances of a person flipping scum. Instead of 1/18 chance of a person flipping scum, we have a 1/9 chance of one of those two people flipping scum. Both people lynched flipping scum would help town even more.

STATISTICS ERROR
DOES NOT COMPUTE
Not everyone has an equal chance of being scum once the game has gotten to this point. Not to mention that it's not random, so those stats are meaningless once you get past the initial role assignments

We shouldn't use a cop investigation on me. Use it someone like Mina to confirm her. If I get confirmed people will get annoyied and I can't help the town too much.

I personally don't object to you receiving a cop investigation. Since I have never been a fan of your play under any circumstance, this would be the perfect oppertunity to reveal if you're town or scum.

On top of that, saying you can't help the town much is a really bad statement.

Why would a vezo investigation help us? Please, tell me. Would it change his play? Would the town listen to him more?

[hasdgfas]

3) as of right now, me. I want your fears assuaged, and it seems like a bunch of other people want to be sure I'm town to pay more attention to my reads. Other than me, xvart. I don't have a clue what I think of him.

I'm the only person in the entire game that you have a neutral read on?

well, kinda irrelevant now, but I never said you were the only one I had a neutral read on. You were just the one that stuck out the most to me.

Cow, what town benefit do you think would have been gained for the KG to know everyone's role name or role?

It locks them into a claim, whether rolename or role. Claiming something that, if you change it later, there are 6 others to call you out on is an incredibly powerful tool.

I don't think that tool would have been especially effective considering the claims we have gotten so far from people. And considering name claiming (and the reference to the GoT mini and the name claiming debacle there) was already thrown out the window before any of you were recruited is troubling to me. I don't see how if everyone name claiming is not being a good idea then how good idea for a smaller group of people to name claim.

xvart.

It's a select group, that one person thinks is made up of town. If LMP hadn't said that he picked people he thought were town(minus raivann), I wouldn't have said a thing about nameclaiming. But it seemed like a decent reason to at least see what people thought of the idea.

I'd like you to explain further.

The people who are scummy are the ones more likely to be lynched. With 2 confirmed scumteams, they also have a higher-than-normal chance to be killed at night, with people trying to get crosskills.
Someone who is scummy is someone you already have a read on. Someone who you don't have a read on who you can confirm as either town or scum is far more helpful than either confirming that you're going to lynch someone you already want to lynch, or confirming that you're

not

going to lynch someone who has been playing in an anti-town way. Will them being confirmed innocent cause them to change their play? Most likely not, so why spend an investigation on them if it's not going to really help the town?

so basically this:

The reason you don't want to investigate someone scummy as cop is those are the people you're probably lynching anyways, and claiming cop with inno at that time is rediculously stupid unless it's LYLO or you're claimed. Cop scans should be used on hard to read players.

vote: SSBF

now that I'm being investigated, die please. I still need to take a look at Unsight. Apologies that it hasn't happened yet, the last couple days have been kinda crazy. Next day or 2. Hopefully tomorrow.

[hasdgfas]

I also hated his refusal to answer my question about Lannisters on the Kingsguard because "it might be a trap" (Wasn't it obvious where I was heading with it? If he's town, he should be wondering about me by process of elimination?).

Right, but I've seen this before. Even though I should be wondering about you by process of elimination, if I say so, it's OMGUS. If I don't, I'm scum trying to appease my attacker. I really hate questions like that, because both answers get me more suspicion.
But the thing is, the situation that you're creating here, of "Lannister in the Kingsguard seems like the obvious conclusion", doesn't seem like one that scum would make, which is why I didn't immediately go "Yes, I'm suspicious of you". I wanted your response to that, as it would have probably helped my read somewhat.

[hasdgfas]

I am Arya Stark, the Town Vigilante.

There's something wrong with this claim. Just take a look here:

Welcome to A Clash of Kings Mafia, Faraday

You are

Jon Snow, Innocent Aligned

. You're like on the wall and fucking up others so are too busy to do anything of note. You also, surprisingly enough brought oral sex beyond the wall, so I guess 'you know nothing Jon Snow' wasn't all that accurate, was it?

Abillites:

Vote

- During the Day phase your vote counts as 1 towards the majority required.

So you're basically a vanilla townie.

Win Condition

: You win when the scum are dead and the kingdom is a safe(ish) place to live in.

So lookee here. He claimed "Town Vigilante". However, nobody is in here as "town", they're here as "Innocent Aligned".
Also, "I have a sharp sword". That's terrible, especially in a paraphrase. I don't understand why he would put it like that. Sounds like a bad fakeclaim.
Lynch please.

[hasdgfas]

Looking at Unsight, I found something very, very interesting:

Post 1151: This is Unsight looking at the dana wagon, going over people's reasons for voting.
Looking at a couple things from the post:

It's really easy to see the people actually putting a case forward versus the blatant wagon-ers especially toward the end.

I mentioned something about this earlier in the game, and still find it to be a strange comment to make. What I didn't notice before was how the comment interacted with this comment just afterwards in the post:

I will support a danakillsu lynch, but not until the last 3 people explain what they're doing and why.

she(he?) had said nothing about dana previously, yet says that she would support a dana lynch, but admonishes those in the game who voted for dana with no reasoning. I feel this is incredibly hypocritical, especially because I don't remember seeing any reasons for voting for dana once she did end up voting. It just seems to be following the town, and looks like blatant bussing.
She mentions this in her ISO 25, but doesn't really refute the claim of Thor that she's doing exactly what she was attacking.

Now, Unsight, could you please point out your reasons for voting for dana from your ISO in the case that I might have missed them?
Otherwise, it looks like massive hypocrisy, and feels incredibly scummy to me.

[hasdgfas]

Question to everyone: how many scum do you think the Greyjoys/Lannisters have? We have 2 dead on each side right now, from 26 total

[hasdgfas]

About the kill choices, I can kill whoever I want to kill, it is my own choice. That said, I am willing to kill either vezokpiraka or CSL, leaning toward CSL.

No, you won't. You'll kill who town tells you to kill or you'll be lynched. Plain and simple.

There's no use in a vig if they have no leeway. The Kingsguard discussed that N1 re: Raivann. Give them a list of 2-4, but don't make them kill a certain target, that's just like a second lynch, not a vig.

@Mikujin: Why do you think that a three-scum factions team is more likely?

Raivann was considered to be the scummiest person of Day 1, so I took care of him Night 1.

I doubt it was killed by me Night 2 due to my gut read of him.

That was your reason? Really?

[hasdgfas]

Question to people voting or suspecting Mikujin: which team do you think he's on?

Mikujin(look at his reaction to Locke's softclaim.)

[hasdgfas]

That was your reason? Really?

Yes it was. He was also my top suspect. Would it seriously not make any sense to kill someone you consider the most suspicious?

Nope, it makes perfect sense to kill the person you consider most suspicious. Here's my issue. Raivann claimed Vigilante. If you are the vigilante, I don't believe that you wouldn't have that as part of your reason for killing him. That should be reason number 1, because you would be pretty darn sure he was fakeclaiming. With you leaving out that crucial bit of info, I do not believe your claim for a second.

SSBF, does your "flavor" explain why your victims are hacked to pieces?

I'm leaning toward yes mainly because I believe that Arya Stark is an aggressive person given that according to the flavor, he has run feral.

He? I would expect flavor to be clear that Arya is a girl.

[hasdgfas]

All right, seeing as how there has been a lull in responding to my question about scumteam sizes, I should actually go a bit into why I asked it.
I wasn't sure whether 3/3/1 or 4/4/1 was more likely(as I think those are the two likely scenarios).
Now, if we think we have 3/3/1, that means we have 1/1/1 left, with 17 alive. Plenty of time to find the two remaining scum that aren't the SK(assuming that's SSBF) if we lynch him today
If we think we have 4/4/1, that means we have 2/2/1 left, with 17 alive, and if we lynch SSBF, it's tougher to be able to find the scum left in time unless there are crosskills, so we should leave him alive, for at least one night.
I'd rather kill SSBF today and get rid of the extra kill(and 99% likely, the SK), than have 3 kills a night, which could easily get out of hand, especially if the kills are mostly on town.
I'm willing to look elsewhere, but still don't know why we should leave SSBF alive. I get that he's killed 2 scum so far, but that can quickly change, regardless of whether or not we're partially directing his kills.

Let me know if this is nonsensical, I'm a bit tired right now, but my head knows what I mean.

[hasdgfas]

But strong feeling is that if we are not going to lynch a good SK candidate in SSBF under the pretense of "directing" his kill, then we should NOT be giving him an entire list of people to pick from. We should give him precisely 1 name. Otherwise, he's got the flexibility and leeway to try and kill the person he thinks (or maybe knows?) is Town out of the "list" we are giving him. And at this point the SK is going to be strongly motivated to kill Town if he can.

This makes no sense. We'd be giving him a list of people we think are scum. Therefore, it doesn't matter if

he

thinks they're town, because the town as a whole thinks they're scum.

[hasdgfas]

Super Smash Bros. Fan (3) -

Unsight, Hasdgfas, Mikujin

Please re-justify these votes.

don't see a better spot than 99% confirmed scum

[hasdgfas]

He also hadn't commented on anything else that had gone down in the QT.

Because responding to "what do you want done with vezo?" is nothing?

Also, I'm getting lazy now that I'm being investigated. This is what I told myself I wouldn't do. Back to this, Cow!

Why isn't Cow doing it? I know Mina has promised to do so but Cow has access to the same information. If it is important (and I think it is) for the genaral population to have access to a summary of the Kingsguard Day 2 both players who have access should be providing it, if they are Innocent. I understand the concept of duplication of work but the minute the first person posts a summary the second doesn't have to expend the effort.

Especially in light of Cow's impending reveal I can't see any reason if he is Innocent that he shouldn't be forwarding the information also.

Because Mina had been promising to do it, and kept promising to do it. I didn't see a pressing need at the moment either, but I was planning to do it closer to deadline if it hadn't been done.

And why are you even hinting that I should be modkilled? That, in itself, is scummy as hell.

and, this.

FoS Benmage

If you're worried about modkill, PM the mod. Mentioning it in-thread is incredibly scummy, there's no town reason to do so. Why would you say this? Regardless of whether you thought it required modkill, if you're town, you shouldn't want a modkill.

Cow - do you know what Mina was referring to with the juicy comment?

Probably me defending myself from percy's hint of looking at me. It annoyed me, because it seemed to me to be a subtle attack, which he didn't like when others did the same to him in the QT. So I thought I should explain it. As I've said before, there should be no reason for me not to defend myself as much as I can. Everyone wants to survive, regardless of alignment, so not totally defending yourself isn't playing to win.

Melisandre was a fake claim from Stannis's whole crew...Onion Knight could be a fake one too.

And Stannis was in the game, so clearly not everyone from Stannis's crew is a fakeclaim


I'd also like to point this quote out:

@Lock: All you're doing is saying you have "results" that indicate Percy is "anti-town." Forgive my skepticism, but are you softclaiming cop? And if you are/are not, to what extent is Percy anti-town (scum/third-party)? I only make the inquiry because you seem to be holding your tongue, which hasn't exactly been your style in the past. (For instance: in the past you've usually made your case and voted right away, but not this time.)

This looks incredibly like trying to get Locke to give his results early so that Percy can have an out of some sort. It's incredibly scummy, especially because it's clear that Locke is going to explain after Percy came in and responded. It's something I just can't get past when looking back at today. What possible town reason could there be for this? I just simply don't know.
And you know what, it's enough to get me to move my vote.

unvote, vote: Mikujin

Please explain your reasoning for this, or point it out to me if you explained it before, as I didn't see it.

[hasdgfas]

FoS Benmage

no town reason to suggest modkill in thread. zilch, nada, zero.

[hasdgfas]

FoS Benmage

no town reason to suggest modkill in thread. zilch, nada, zero.

Is there town motive to do so outside the thread?

protecting game integrity

[hasdgfas]

I'd also like to point this quote out:

@Lock: All you're doing is saying you have "results" that indicate Percy is "anti-town." Forgive my skepticism, but are you softclaiming cop? And if you are/are not, to what extent is Percy anti-town (scum/third-party)? I only make the inquiry because you seem to be holding your tongue, which hasn't exactly been your style in the past. (For instance: in the past you've usually made your case and voted right away, but not this time.)

This looks incredibly like trying to get Locke to give his results early so that Percy can have an out of some sort. It's incredibly scummy, especially because it's clear that Locke is going to explain after Percy came in and responded. It's something I just can't get past when looking back at today. What possible town reason could there be for this? I just simply don't know.
And you know what, it's enough to get me to move my vote.

unvote, vote: Mikujin

Please explain your reasoning for this, or point it out to me if you explained it before, as I didn't see it.

I've got my reasons; however, I'm not going to let you try and bully me into claiming just to answer your question. If you reread me well enough, and follow the trail, you'll see why I asked the question.

where did I say anything about claiming?

[hasdgfas]

where did I say anything about claiming?

You never explicitly stated any such thing, but do alleviate the concerns you put forth regarding my interactions with Locke, I might have to reveal something I'd rather not.

As I said, I've done my best to drop some hints as to what my function is, and to what ends that may have directed my interactions with other players. I'm by no means a pro at "breadcrumbing" and whatnot, but I've done my best to do it. That's all I can really say on the matter for now.

/facepalm
ugh, I think I get what you're saying, but this was really not the best way of going about it.

[hasdgfas]

/facepalm
ugh, I think I get what you're saying, but this was really not the best way of going about it.

Well, as the mod pointed out quite early there are at least a few people like myself who are rather... inexperienced, I guess. Was there a more tactful way I should've went about saying that?

we can go over this post-game. Now is a terrible time.

[hasdgfas]

/sigh

unvote

Not sure where it should go now.....

[hasdgfas]

The day is almost up. Despite Thor’s reasonable suggestion if you don’t believe Unsight / Rifka are good lynches go with who you think is scum. There’s not a Pro-Town reason to end the day with an idle vote when the day doesn’t end early.

I wasn't planning to have an idle vote, trust me. There are 2 days left until deadline, that's 2 days left to vote.

Can someone point me to the Rifka case? I do not remember seeing it.

[hasdgfas]

You know, I'm kinda being convinced on Rifka. Need to ISO, but I'm thinking Rifka needs to claim.

[hasdgfas]

You know, I'm kinda being convinced on Rifka. Need to ISO, but I'm thinking Rifka needs to claim.

I swear, you're doing this on purpose.

hmm?

Also, I'm doing the paraphrasing as soon as I get up tomorrow if you haven't finished it.

[hasdgfas]

You know, I'm kinda being convinced on Rifka. Need to ISO, but I'm thinking Rifka needs to claim.

I swear, you're doing this on purpose.

hmm?

forget this, I kinda got confused about the rest of your post.

What is wrong with people on mafiascum and their obsession with asking for a claim every time someone gets looked at sideways?

Because tomorrow is deadline.

Why the hell are you asking Rifka to claim when your vote isn't

on her

?

Because my vote isn't on

anyone

, and I want to place it in a way that helps us get to a lynch. Since deadline is

tomorrow

(later today, techinically).

What convinced you in particular on Rifka? Was it Axel's most recent post?

Nah, it was thinking back over what Rifka's done with game before looking back. I really don't like Axelrod at all this game, but scum have to scumhunt too, so it's quite possible that it's a serious case.

Right now, is there anyone you think

is scum

? If you could get one player lynched this second, whom would it be?

SSBF. I should think this would be obvious.

Do you actually PREFER a Rifka vote to an Unsight vote, or are they even in your mind? Why do you think that Rifka is scummier than Unsight?

I currently don't think that Unsight is all that scummy. I looked back over him(her?) and couldn't see much that rubbed me wrong.
On the other hand, I looked back at Rifka and went "hmmmmmmmmmmm, this is kinda weird. He/she doesn't really seem to know what he/she thinks."

[hasdgfas]

Cow, those last two questions were directed at Axelrod, not at you.

Well, I answered them too. Hopefully you don't mind. It wasn't easy to tell from the post.

vote: Rifka

as I prefer this to an Unsight lynch.

[hasdgfas]

Benmage who is pretty close to clear IIRC.

I'm clearly missing something, as I don't remember this.

[hasdgfas]

Benmage who is pretty close to clear IIRC.

I'm clearly missing something, as I don't remember this.

Have you been following my game play this game?

yep. Doesn't mean I think you're confirmed. Or that I know why you're "confirmed"

[hasdgfas]

Do it now, Diddin. Less than half an hour to go, there's no point waiting now.

^^^^

[hasdgfas]

SSBF needs to die today, I don't know about the second.
Expect short posts and not many while I'm at CaffWagon through Wednesday.

[hasdgfas]

I really want to hear from Locke

[hasdgfas]

I'm slightly leaning towards SSBF/Axelrod, but I want to hear from Mina. I have no idea whether or not I'm talking complete and utter hogwash or not.

[hasdgfas]

@Mina: Anything interesting go on in the Kingsguard QT last Night?

I'll answer this one: not anything we're going to reveal right now.

Also, I am back from Caffwagon V/LA, but may not be able to post much until Friday.

[hasdgfas]

I'm currently ok with SSBF/Axelrod

vote: Axelrod

I haven't liked his play all game, and if we're getting a double lynch, then as long as SSBF is one, I think Axelrod should be second.

[hasdgfas]

Vote: CSL

Glad to see that CSL is finally being considered for a lynch.

CSL should have been dead a long time ago

and now is the best time to get rid of him. If it means that I am lynched as well, so be it. I think he's scum and he needs to die.

/facepalm

[hasdgfas]

SSBF, if you killed me last night, they'd be going for vezok next, with you at the helm. That is why you are dying TODAY, along with whomever else is being lynched. If majority hit now, Axelrod would go down with you.

what exactly are you saying here? I'm not quite getting the point of this post.

[hasdgfas]

Hey guys. Guess what. Macavitar is scum.

vote: Macavitar

[hasdgfas]

Claim now. Please and thank you.

[hasdgfas]

Hey Macavitar, I'm Brienne of Tarth. You lose.

[hasdgfas]

Hey Macavitar, do you have flavor? Thanks.

[hasdgfas]

Sure. I'm Catelyn Stark, widow of the previous Hand of the King. I attempted to ally my son Robb's cause to those of Stannis and Renly Baratheon. However, there have been complications due to the influence that Lady Melisandre's magic has had on Stannis.

This is why I thought there might be some chance at a Melisandre-based scum team.

Is it just me, or is vezo at this point obv-Joffery from a Lannister-type scum group or Stannis from a

Melisandre-type scum group

?

Honestly, I'm shocked you didn't see my obvious Brienne breadcrumb day 1. I was basically screaming "I'm Brienne".

Also, flavor for your power, not in general.

[hasdgfas]

Also, flavor for your power, not in general.

Paraphrasing as best I can, I am looking for someone I can trust in unfamiliar territory.

Catelyn Stark didn't trust Brienne until Renly died. While the timeline is a bit messed up here, I'm not sure how well it fits.

Also, would you have been able to talk to me at night?

[hasdgfas]

Also, would you have been able to talk to me at night?

Yes, mason buddies.

I kinda have issues with that, as we have the Kingsguard, which is another night talk group. Seems like a lot of night talking.

[hasdgfas]

So given a choice between a suspicious-looking player who was tracked to the Lannister kill target and gave a shady role-related excuse AFTER Cow revealed

dang it. dang it. That's not quite accurate. Ugh, second thoughts abound in my head after I went and reread what happened.

Mac, why did you say "I think I know what happened"?

[hasdgfas]

Cow, if you were Mafia, you'd personally killed Mikujin last night, there had already been a flipped namecop, and then someone called you confirmed scum, voted you immediately out of the gates, and asked you to full claim, what information do you think your accuser would've had on you? This isn't only a rhetorical question. How do you think you'd have reacted? I'd be interested in knowing.

I don't know, it's never happened to me. I probably would assume cop, honestly, and flail around trying to find a reason to say that they're wrong.

Cow, there's nothing whatsoever in your PM to suggest that there's a mason out there looking for you, is there?

Nope, nothing at all.

[hasdgfas]

Wait Wait Wait.

So has, you are claiming watcher with Macavatar visiting Miku last night? I'm not exactly clear on the current situation.

tracker.

[hasdgfas]

Macavitar: Why did you say nothing about Brienne when Benmage mentioned something early in the game about not knowing whether or not Brienne was in the game?

[hasdgfas]

@Cow, read on Mina?

I've been town on her all game until her vitriolic attack on MoI, so I'd love a bit of reassurance.

She's either town or really, really, really good at pretending she is.
Although I've been getting a touch paranoid lately, that's because I always do late in games.
I'm about 95% certain she's town.

The one thing I'm certain of is that she's not going to claim today, nor be lynched today.

The only way for Mac to be town would be if Benmage were to jailkeep either Mac or has N3. I think he's a smart enough guy to know that jailing mod-confirmed town is a bad idea, and I doubt he would go for Macavatar of all people.

You're missing one incredibly obvious other option. Remember who died Night 3? Xvart, Lannister Roleblocker.

Also, to someone who remembers that section of the book better than I:
Did Catelyn Stark

ever

know about Melisandre? I can't remember her ever getting that information.

[hasdgfas]

Mina is the last Greyjoy

This is incredibly false, for reasons that may become obvious in the future. If Mina's anything, she's Lannister.

[hasdgfas]

I have role-confirmed iron-clad belief that Mina is 100% triple-A not Greyjoy.

[hasdgfas]

I have role-confirmed iron-clad belief that Mina is 100% triple-A not Greyjoy.

unless something really weird is going on, which I doubt

[hasdgfas]

Hasfdhsfhsgfds, what EXACTLY does your role PM say flavour-wise?

I can't tell you

exactly

, obviously.

[hasdgfas]

hasdgfas: if you have any results from previous nights that might affect anything, you might want to out them now, since I doubt you will make it through the night. Plus if you have a result from N3, it nulls the option of Benmage having jailkept you that night.

nah, if I die, they'll be obvious.

[hasdgfas]

...

I'm not questioning his clarity, or his claim. I just want a paraphrase.

of my role PM?

[hasdgfas]

Yes.

I don't understand why, when I'm 100% mod-confirmed town and have told you what my role is.

[hasdgfas]

FFS, just do it.

I see zero town reason to unless you explain further.

[hasdgfas]

Wow, Richard.

Role-fish

much?

that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

[hasdgfas]

Oh my God. It isn't rocket science, Cow.

Neither is

explaining your reason

[hasdgfas]

so you basically want something like this:

Cow, there's nothing whatsoever in your PM to suggest that there's a mason out there looking for you, is there?

Nope, nothing at all.

[hasdgfas]

sure, paraphrase, fine

Although I'm a pretty deadly warrior, nobody gives me the respect I deserve, as I'm a woman.
When I set myself to a task, I put my entire body and soul into it, making sure I finish it as best I can. This allows me to focus on following someone during the night in order to see where they go.


Nothing at all about a mason searching for me.

[hasdgfas]

I love how Mina is the center of this game's universe.

You have no idea

[hasdgfas]

aaaaaaagh

unvote

This is frustrating, because mac

feels

genuine. I just have no idea who a better choice is.....

[hasdgfas]

aaaaagh, how have I forgotten about this game?
Sorry everyone, I've been sick, and school is killing me, and this game is really starting to make my head hurt.

Right now, I don't know who I want to lynch, and it's really frustrating me.

Mina/Richard/Thor/me are right out.

Macavitar is someone I'm leaning against lynching today. But I don't know who the best choice of the others is.
This may be blasphemy, but I'm going to do the math on no lynch and see if it's an option.

CSL is ridiculous. He doesn't seem to think like a normal human being.

That's because I'm autistic. You have a problem with that?

No offense CSL, but quite frankly, I don't care. I treat every player the same in mafia, regardless of any mental conditions they may have. Whether it means taking RL notes to keep your thoughts straight or whatever, do something so you can't use autism as an excuse. To me, it's like any other AtE in a mafia game. Scummy. (I don't want this discussion to take over the game, so unless you have something game-related to say about this, leave it until post-game).

in summary: Don't use your mental condition as a crutch, overcome it as best as you can, because everyone is treated the same in mafia.

[hasdgfas]

Ok, this is going to look very messy, but I did some number crunching on NL versus lynch.
=========================================
no lynch

9 alive
2 deaths
---------------
7 alive
5/1/1
or
6/1
or
7/0(WIN)

6/1 is 3 days to find the last scum.


5/1/1 leads to
either a town lynch, so 4/1/1
or 5/1(leads to 4/1, and two days to find the last scum)
-------------
from 4/1/1

either 2/1/1(BAD), 3/1(NL, then 3-person endgame), 4/0(WIN)

============================================================

if we lynch town:
8 alive
2 deaths
-----------
6 alive
4/1/1
or
5/1
or 6/0(WIN)

5/1 = NL + 2 days

from 4/1/1
town lynch: 3/1/1
scum lynch: 4/1
NIGHT:
3/1/1 -> 1/1/1(VERY BAD), 2/1(3-person endgame), 3/0(WIN)

if we lynch scum:
8 alive
1 death
------------
6/1, so 3 days to find the last scum.
===========================================================

(Can anyone besides me understand what's going on here? Or is this too "out there"?)

Anyway, it looks to me like No Lynch has the least chance of hurting us, because we have the best chance of having the most time to find the remaining scum.

[hasdgfas]

our best hope is to have scum both target the same pro town player. I think that not taking that into account is skewing your results to suggest no lynch as more beneficial then it really is.

right, that is an option. I totally forgot about that. hmmmmmmm. Maybe lynching someone is the best idea, but I just don't know who the best option is.

[hasdgfas]

Honestly, I think I want to lynch CSL, not necessarily for his play, but because he's such a wild card, and I have no idea what I think of him.

[hasdgfas]

Aah!

This game.

I feel the exact same way right now.

That I think we're simultaneously WAY overthinking this and not thinking things through enough? (Be honest. Who here has so much as reread the thread today to see who fits as a Lannister or Greyjoy?) That I'm now back to thinking the scum are Macavitar and Magna, and yet they're less braindead and sheepish than almost all the surviving players? And that I'll probably change my mind again in two minutes, because I suck at this

Oh, I've been thinking the same thing, at least in terms of me personally.

That people seriously considered

No-Lynching

?

Hey, I tried actually doing math on it, was shown that I had missed something, dropped it. But No Lynch is sometimes the best idea. Just not in this case, as was shown to me.




ugh, school is destroying any free time I have. If only I had more time, there are a few things I want to check. Such as: who jumped on the Rifka wagon Day 3 to keep Unsight from getting lynched. What the flipped Lannies/Greyjoys said about other players. Etcetera

[hasdgfas]

Unsight (7): MagnaOfIllusion, Macavitar, CSL,

Richard

,

Benmage

,

Vezokpiraka

, Diddin
Unsight (7): MagnaOfIllusion,

RichardGHP

,

Benmage

,

Vezokpiraka

, Diddin,

Rifka Viveka

, CSL

Rifka (9):

Thor665

,

Locke Lamora

,

xvart

, Macavitar, Mina,

Axelrod

,

Hasdgfas

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

, Diddin

so, the first thing I see, is that I had forgotten we only had two scumflips since this happened, one of whom was SK.
xvart voted for rifka and stayed away from unsight at that point, so if anything,

maybe

he's more likely Lannister, but I really don't see much to be gained from looking at that in that way.



Now, while I was looking through old parts of the game, I decided that I had a very important question/clarification to ask(please nobody ask about this while I'm waiting for an answer):

@Mod: Regarding the stabbing Day 2, did it remove all factional abilities, such as mafia group nightkills? Or just a personal nightkill ability such as an SK's?



So, looking at dead scum, I couldn't find much again. Either I'm just really rusty at re-reads(quite likely) or I'm still sicker than I thought(also quite likely):

Mikujin had a huge argument with Macavitar over nothing, which was really weird. No voting/FoS'ing/anything, just a big argument. As though it was just for distancing.

Otherwise.......nothing. Maybe I'm just blind. Maybe it's just been a really long day, but I couldn't find anything substantial from the dead scum about anyone alive. Ugh.

Thor I still think Macavatar is scum. I just would rather lynch Greyjoy scum today.

Greyjoy in particular?

[hasdgfas]

@Mina - A jailkeeper generally blocks everything, making it a double-edged sword of sorts.

Has this changed recently? Because at least when I first used a JK like that in my first modded mini-theme, people didn't believe the claim

because

he said it stopped everything and not just kills. I mean, I think it makes more sense blocking everything, but I could definitely see either.

1. As Cow’s statement shows you were one of the players who jumped off Unsight to lynch Rifka with the ever strong scum-hunting motive to “shake things up”.

This is completely irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.

[hasdgfas]

@Mod: Regarding the stabbing Day 2, did it remove all factional abilities, such as mafia group nightkills? Or just a personal nightkill ability such as an SK's?

In this situation a mafia faction's nightkill would not be affected by a member of said group being stabbed. So, no, it wouldn't remove factional abillities.

So if a member of a mafia group was stabbed, he/she would still be able to make a mafia kill if they were the only one in their group left alive?

[hasdgfas]

hasaopdjfdpsok seemed interested in CSL, his lack of support with me on that one does make me sad.

sorry, that's what the questioning of the mod was about. If he said mafia kills were removed too, then CSL was clear, but they weren't, so he's not. I've just been in the lab all day and didn't get much chance to come back after questioning.

[hasdgfas]

To recap this day: We had a PR out someone as scum and we're going to end with a VT lynch.

Since the town is so dumb, I'm going to tell you what's almost definitely going to happen in the next two days. I'm going to flip town on my lynch. Thor, has, or both are going to get shot tonight. Tomorrow you're going to realize how stupid you were today and lynch Macavitar. The day after that you will find yourselves in LYLO with CSL, Magna, and Mina. CSL is going to get the deciding vote between Magna and Mina... and he'll pick wrong.

Boy, instead of lambasting the town, how about you try to help? Macavitar can't be the only scum. What are your other thoughts?

[hasdgfas]

Magna or Mina is the last greyjoy.

Mina is not the last greyjoy. Just, she's not.

Also, quick question: do people agree with my current assumption that anyone who is tracked and

doesn't

visit someone who died is going to be clear?

[hasdgfas]

Mafia could no-kill.

I will agree with that, but only on a night where 2 deaths happen (after SSBF lynch) or 3 deaths happen (Before SSBF lynch)

mafia no-killing is strictly against their win condition at this point.

[hasdgfas]

I hate myself

[hasdgfas]

I was coming in to vote for Mac, then saw that Unsight was hammered. Stupid school

[hasdgfas]

I definitely enjoyed this game, even with my huge brain hiccup during the day of the tracking debacle. Like I said, I was just about to come in and vote Mac before I saw that Unsight had been hammered. Who knows how the game would have ended then?
But anyway, yeah, kudos to the mods, and sorry for throwing such a huge win condition wrench into the game right at the end there. Great flavor, great mechanics, all-around awesome. Except for me derping it up day 5, I felt like I played pretty well this game, which is actually kinda new for me. Which reminds me:

scum: why'd you leave me alive so long after being confirmed? I was very surprised about that.

[hasdgfas]

I have to say I've lost a little bit of respect for some players in reading the QT. Quite frankly the amount of Technicality Lawyering that went on at the end was sad.

As I think I said in the dead thread, for me it was probably bitterness over screwing up so badly Day 5. The win condition thing was important to point out, but other things weren't so much, at least from what I remember me posting. And CSL's self-hammer didn't help the situation. That just caused tempers and bitterness to increase exponentially. Quite frankly, if that didn't happen, I probably would have been ok with the outcome if it stayed the same.


@Mac: If I came out upon Day 5 starting and went "Hey guys, we should massclaim", do you think you would have claimed the same way you did?

[hasdgfas]

@Mac: If I came out upon Day 5 starting and went "Hey guys, we should massclaim", do you think you would have claimed the same way you did?

Hells no. You almost guaranteed would have caught me had you gotten a massclaim to happen before calling me out. Catelyn-Brienne Finder was a claim born of desperation. Sorry.

yeah, I realized that I was far too obvious about it when I brought that up. I needed to slow-play more.

[hasdgfas]

4. CSL’s quickhammer on Axel – Prevented a Doc claim (which may or may not have been believed) and allowed us to kill Locke free and clear that night. Horrible for Town.

I agree completely. And I was actually thinking just before the quickhammer that doctor made a ton of sense with his play, was about to unvote him, and then saw the quickhammer. Too many times that sort of thing happened in this game, I was just a little too slow.

[hasdgfas]

I agree completely. And I was actually thinking just before the quickhammer that doctor made a ton of sense with his play, was about to unvote him, and then saw the quickhammer. Too many times that sort of thing happened in this game, I was just a little too slow.

The lesson this sort of situation teaches is - never have your vote parked on someone you would regret voting for if the flip goes bad. Quicklynches can and do happen.

Yeah, well, the last time I had checked the site, I would have been happy with it. I didn't get a chance to get back to MS until the quickhammer happened.

[hasdgfas]

Too many times that sort of thing happened in this game, I was just a little too slow.

You know, this game has given me the impression that we're too much alike.

I don't know if you should take that as a compliment.

heh. I'm not taking it as an insult, as I was quite impressed with your play.

[hasdgfas]

I wish more people realized that the most important thing a vanilla townie can do to help the town (at least as helpful as having your vote in the right place) is to LOOK TOWN.

false. the best thing a VT can do is hunt scum while not caring if they look town. that's why i had moments that looked really scummy. because i didn't care about looking town.

[hasdgfas]

Though I will say that usually whenever I'm hunting scum people tend to think I'm being reasonably townish at the same time. There's certainly some marriage between the two activities.

I don't disagree. I'm saying you shouldn't care whether you're being townish. Quite honestly, that's the biggest towntell for me, scumhunting while not caring if you look town.

[hasdgfas]

I think there's possibly an useful distinction here.

1) Looking townish because you are actively participating in pro-town activities, the primary of which is obviously scum hunting.


2) Looking townish because you're trying not to upset people or make any waves.

I want people to do 1), and will probably try and lynch people who do 2)

I find it difficult to play with people who don't engage with reasonable questions. "Why do you think X is scum?" "You changed your vote from Y to Z after those last two posts, what in them made you change your mind?"

People who respond to those kinds of questions look townie to me. People who ignore them or say "I just know" "It's fucking obvious" or just quote stuff to me... it makes it hard to engage and hard to trust them. That is where I think players like Unsight fell down. He may have been actively and effectively scumhunting. But there was no trust built up.
Compare that to a player like Mina, even one who was wrong a whole bunch. She spelled out why she had reached the conclussions she'd reached. So each time she made a case, I could assess her thoughts and from that decide whether she was scummy or not as well as whether her 'target' was scummy or not.

I kind of agree with you here. I mean, I'll answer the questions people have for me, but what I mean about not caring if I look town is that I don't filter what I post as much. I'll ask a question or post a comment/observation if I think it's useful. It doesn't matter what people think of me for doing that. If I think it has the chance to be useful, I'm going to say it. That's why in the Kingsguard QT I said "should we all nameclaim in here?" Sure, we had already decided not to nameclaim in the main thread, but in a small group like that, I think it's worth it to lock someone into a nameclaim of some sort so they can't change their mind later. It's a totally different situation, and I knew I was going to get flak for it, but I had a reason for it and I felt it was a good, town reason, so I didn't care if someone thought I was scummy for that. That's sort of what I mean as opposed to the not caring what people think at all and just being a jerk. I'm not saying act in a way that hurts the town because you annoy a ton of people. But don't filter something out that could be incredibly useful because you think it may make you look a bit scummy.

[hasdgfas]

SSBF: you weren't VI, you were just obviously scum(at least in my opinion).

And I agree with Baltar. You definitely can't leave the VIs around as long as we did. We probably should have taken CSL out with you in the double lynch(all the way across the sky). VIs just cause way too much town confusion. They can't stick around.

[hasdgfas]

Am I being called VI?

Haters gonna hate

I'm not calling you that

[hasdgfas]

Yeah more than likely.

Lol @ no one saying Dany (b/c she's uninteresting!)

I actually was going to say Dany
She's gotten more interesting as it's gone on.