Open 244: Carbon-14 (Game Over, Werewolves win!)

[[sic]]

Is that a scumtell?

[bv310]

Me=Weird replaces RayFrost

[CallMeLiam]

Is that a scumtell?

It's certainly not a town one.

[[sic]]

That's the worst post yet.

Vote: CallMeLiam

I'd still ike Scott to answer the question.

[Me=Weird]

Hi.
Here's a case on [sic].
OMGUS. Of a random vote. A bit nervous there, eh, scum?
More OMGUS, of something obviously not serious. And that could also be classified as AtE, "and you're helping scum with your vote". Especially since the vote in question wasn't even on him.
This is the smallest non-marathon-dethy I've been in. I wouldn't have noticed it was L-1 either. Which is why there are mods, I suppose.
"Counter-wagon" is you. You fail. Okay. Oh. You mean fail at

making

counter wagons. So some-one slipped up and forgot there's 7 people. blah blah.
Yeah, lets put pressure on someone who isn't usually in small games instead of the person who does OMGUS, AtE, and tunneling on a null-tell. Wait, it isn't opposite day, is it?
Tries to subtly discredit robo by pointing out the irrelevant grammar fail.
Sure it is. Only 1 vote difference.
Okay, so… you're okay with ray's vote, but think he should be punished for it? In what alternate reality does this make sense?
So you think only you and robo read the votecount? Do you really think everyone else doesn't care?
If you still think it's scummy, and are talking about it, why aren't you voting? Oh yeah, post 57. Where you… just look up a couple lines in this case.
No need to claim. It's not like you're at L-1 or anything. It's not like I'd be willing to hammer.[/sarcasm]
Oh yes, he's the only one who "Seems to have read and understood my posts" because he's the only one who seems to think you're town.
Yes, it's a scum-tell. You're like, "Oh, somebody thinks I'm town! Everyone, that means I'm town. There, we have to confirmed town, me and him." Just because someone thinks you're town doesn't mean we all should. We have a right to our own opinions.
Why is it any worse than yours? Why is it bad at all? This is almost OMGUS.

So basically, he OMGUS's, (to a lesser extent,) AtE's, tunnels on accidental L-1 with 7 people, which he doesn't have a problem with but feels should be punished.
[sic], please claim. I'm willing to hammer.
Copper, where do you get your town read on him from? How does this post influence it?
Robo, what do you think of [sic]'s recent posts, especially the one above this?
Scott, a2rudeboy, please contribute more.

Sorry for the WoT.

[Me=Weird]

Mod: Vote-count, please?

[[sic]]

Will make a bigger post later to try and get past some of the misrepping here. Hold your breath.

[Me=Weird]

Of course. It's a post that says he's scum. Therefore, according to [sic] logic, it is full of misreps.

[Scott Brosius]

Is that a scumtell?

Yes. Instead of scum-hunting and pro-town behavior, you are pointing to one person's opinion about you as your defense. That is scummy.

[[sic]]

Not just talking about you, sport.

[[sic]]

Above was @ Me=Weird.

@Scott: Pretty sure what I was doing was asking someone to justify their vote. Try thinking more than one step ahead.

[bv310]

Vote Count:

[sic] (L-1): Scott Brosius, Robocopter87, CallMeLiam
a2rudeboy (L-3): Me=Weird
Me=Weird (L-3): Copper
CallMeLiam (L-3): [sic]

Not Voting: a2rudeboy


Also, I know replacements in a BaM game are not usually allowed, but I decided that this game didn't deserve a modkill this early. It won't be happening again.

[[sic]]

Gonna quote M=W and respond, since he covers most of the stuff I wanted to talk about.

Hi.
Here's a case on [sic].
OMGUS. Of a random vote. A bit nervous there, eh, scum?
More OMGUS, of something obviously not serious. And that could also be classified as AtE, "and you're helping scum with your vote". Especially since the vote in question wasn't even on him.

Both massive reaches. First post is random vote, for jokey reason. Second post is pointing out that Scott called me scum but is voting for the same guy as me. I really don't get the AtE thing.

This is the smallest non-marathon-dethy I've been in. I wouldn't have noticed it was L-1 either. Which is why there are mods, I suppose.
"Counter-wagon" is you. You fail. Okay. Oh. You mean fail at

making

counter wagons. So some-one slipped up and forgot there's 7 people. blah blah.
Yeah, lets put pressure on someone who isn't usually in small games instead of the person who does OMGUS, AtE, and tunneling on a null-tell. Wait, it isn't opposite day, is it?

Pressure gets the game going. Based on your logic, I should have voted myself? Crappy last part covered above.

Tries to subtly discredit robo by pointing out the irrelevant grammar fail.

I truly didn't understand what he was saying. Still don't, since he never addressed it.

Sure it is. Only 1 vote difference.

Small game, one vote is a big difference.

Okay, so… you're okay with ray's vote, but think he should be punished for it? In what alternate reality does this make sense?

Didn't want to lynch him, but it was worth a vote. Don't recall wanting to "punish" him, wagons aren't always about the wagonee.

So you think only you and robo read the votecount? Do you really think everyone else doesn't care?

Based on their posting, apparently not.

If you still think it's scummy, and are talking about it, why aren't you voting? Oh yeah, post 57. Where you… just look up a couple lines in this case.

Clarify? Don't know what "it" is in this sentence.

No need to claim. It's not like you're at L-1 or anything. It's not like I'd be willing to hammer.[/sarcasm]
Oh yes, he's the only one who "Seems to have read and understood my posts" because he's the only one who seems to think you're town.
Yes, it's a scum-tell. You're like, "Oh, somebody thinks I'm town! Everyone, that means I'm town. There, we have to confirmed town, me and him." Just because someone thinks you're town doesn't mean we all should. We have a right to our own opinions.

Yeah, no misreps there. You're right, I shouldn't challenge anyone's opinions in a game of mafia. My bad.[/sarcasm]

Why is it any worse than yours? Why is it bad at all? This is almost OMGUS.

1. He white-knighted for Scott.
2. His answer was evasive.
3. He's ok with Scott voting me for something he (Liam) won't commit to being a scumtell.

So basically, he OMGUS's, (to a lesser extent,) AtE's, tunnels on accidental L-1 with 7 people, which he doesn't have a problem with but feels should be punished.

See above. On "tunneling": I count 3 posts I made about Ray (29, 40, 48), the rest were answers to direct questions. Almost all of those questions came from Robo. And then he accuses me of tunneling. Hmmm.

[sic], please claim. I'm willing to hammer.

Too early to claim, not enough info out. You're the only one who's actually made a case, and you're not even on the wagon.

Copper, where do you get your town read on him from? How does this post influence it?

Hypocrisy FTW. He's entitled to his opinion, remember?

Robo, what do you think of [sic]'s recent posts, especially the one above this?
Scott, a2rudeboy, please contribute more.

QFT on the last part. Then again, why would you want to hammer when you can see that some people are getting a pass?

[[sic]]

Guess I cleared the room.

In case it wasn't clear, I want responses to the above from everyone who's voting me (plus M=W).

[Robocopter87]

Sorry, been rocking out in the marathon thread.

Robo, what do you think of [sic]'s recent posts, especially the one above this?

Supposing your meaning this one,

That's the worst post yet.

Vote: CallMeLiam

I'd still ike Scott to answer the question.

Its stupid. But a noobtell. Its a null for me.

Also, I know replacements in a BaM game are not usually allowed, but I decided that this game didn't deserve a modkill this early. It won't be happening again.

Wow, didn't know that was part of the rules, kinda extreme don't you think? but you are the mod so it is your thing. I have never seen it before.

[Copper]

Copper, whereabouts are you getting your strong town read from?

As I said, [sic] seems to be handling the pressure genuinely. Not necessarily well, although that's up for personal subjection, but genuinely nonetheless. My issue is that [sic] was caught between a rock in a hard place, so it's tough for me to see it as clear cut as maybe you or Robo does. Was he trying to appease Robo or did he sense the wagon was a lost cause? If he steps up, he's pushing a early case on a weak point, but if he backs down, well, page 3 and page 4 are what happens.

Copper, where do you get your town read on him from? How does this post influence it?

Welcome to the game. Refer above. As to your contributions, I can't say I'm growing more convinced on [sic]'s scuminess with the likes of "OMGUS, AtE, and tunneling on L-1", when, one, he actually pulled off of the argument you contend that he's tunneling on (which is the opposite definition of the word), two, even if you consider OMGUS a serious scumtell, it's hard to establish its validity in a 7-player game, and three, I find that emotional appeals are largely based on the individual. In this case, I do not find [sic] in the business of using emotion to undermine discussion.

Additionally, I'd ask that you show a willingness to delay your actions a bit. A lynch can't be undone. Will you at least wait until other players have a chance to talk? Your abruptness does not give me comfort in your alignment at the moment. This, coupled with Ray's sudden dropping from the game, gives me a bad feeling.

[bv310]

That's the beauty of BaM, Robo. The rules may be harsh, but they guarantee commitment and activity. You guys might also like to know that if you do not post for the equivalent of a full deadlined day, you'll be modkilled as well.

[[sic]]

Sorry, been rocking out in the marathon thread.

Robo, what do you think of [sic]'s recent posts, especially the one above this?

Supposing your meaning this one,

That's the worst post yet.

Vote: CallMeLiam

I'd still ike Scott to answer the question.

Its stupid. But a noobtell. Its a null for me.

These bs non-answers are killing the town. Why do you think that? Did you read my 3 points in in post 87?

Robo isn't the worst, either. Liam and Scott are both skating by with almost zero content. a2 hasn't posted in 2 days.

I think M=W is smart enough not to hammer after 4 pages of short posts and without a claim, but just in case: Hammering me at this point would be a VERY BAD MOVE.

[Scott Brosius]

Your abruptness does not give me comfort in your alignment at the moment. This, coupled with Ray's sudden dropping from the game, gives me a bad feeling.

Someone said he dropped all his games. You get into a world of null tells trying to figure out what kind of roles are more likely to flake.

QFT on the last part. Then again, why would you want to hammer when you can see that some people are getting a pass?

I think M=W is smart enough not to hammer after 4 pages of short posts and without a claim, but just in case: Hammering me at this point would be a VERY BAD MOVE.

You are really squirming at L-1

[Me=Weird]

Hi.
Here's a case on [sic].
OMGUS. Of a random vote. A bit nervous there, eh, scum?
More OMGUS, of something obviously not serious. And that could also be classified as AtE, "and you're helping scum with your vote". Especially since the vote in question wasn't even on him.

Both massive reaches. First post is random vote, for jokey reason. Second post is pointing out that Scott called me scum but is voting for the same guy as me. I really don't get the AtE thing.

First post is voting him for voting you because of brackets. OMGUS. The AtE is where you're almost saying "I'm town so you're helping scum with the vote. You should unvote because I'm town and you're helping scum".

This is the smallest non-marathon-dethy I've been in. I wouldn't have noticed it was L-1 either. Which is why there are mods, I suppose.
"Counter-wagon" is you. You fail. Okay. Oh. You mean fail at making counter wagons. So some-one slipped up and forgot there's 7 people. blah blah.
Yeah, lets put pressure on someone who isn't usually in small games instead of the person who does OMGUS, AtE, and tunneling on a null-tell. Wait, it isn't opposite day, is it?

Pressure gets the game going. Based on your logic, I should have voted myself? Crappy last part covered above.

No. You should find someone to pressure other than someone who just miscounted, or at least not because of miscounting.

Tries to subtly discredit robo by pointing out the irrelevant grammar fail.

I truly didn't understand what he was saying. Still don't, since he never addressed it.

So why didn't you ask him in that long string of posts that you and him made directly after? Is it because you're making this up as you go?

Sure it is. Only 1 vote difference.

Small game, one vote is a big difference.

And what if people believed you, and two of them piled on?

Okay, so… you're okay with ray's vote, but think he should be punished for it? In what alternate reality does this make sense?

Didn't want to lynch him, but it was worth a vote. Don't recall wanting to "punish" him, wagons aren't always about the wagonee.

You wanted people to not let him off the hook. You said "Meh. My problem is with people letting RayFrost off the hook, not with his vote." That implies you don't care about the vote, yet are voting for him anyway.

So you think only you and robo read the votecount? Do you really think everyone else doesn't care?

Based on their posting, apparently not.

What?

If you still think it's scummy, and are talking about it, why aren't you voting? Oh yeah, post 57. Where you… just look up a couple lines in this case.

Clarify? Don't know what "it" is in this sentence.

"it" is the whole rayfrost going to L-1 thing.

No need to claim. It's not like you're at L-1 or anything. It's not like I'd be willing to hammer.[/sarcasm]
Oh yes, he's the only one who "Seems to have read and understood my posts" because he's the only one who seems to think you're town.
Yes, it's a scum-tell. You're like, "Oh, somebody thinks I'm town! Everyone, that means I'm town. There, we have to confirmed town, me and him." Just because someone thinks you're town doesn't mean we all should. We have a right to our own opinions.

Yeah, no misreps there. You're right, I shouldn't challenge anyone's opinions in a game of mafia. My bad.[/sarcasm]

If I really did misrep you, why aren't you saying where?

Why is it any worse than yours? Why is it bad at all? This is almost OMGUS.

1. He white-knighted for Scott.
2. His answer was evasive.
3. He's ok with Scott voting me for something he (Liam) won't commit to being a scumtell.

1. You did not imply at all that the question was only for scott.

I

thought it was a question for everyone.
2. True, but I'm not him, I can't explain it.
3. He only said it wasn't a town-tell, and the tone of his post makes me think he thought it to be a scum-tell.

So basically, he OMGUS's, (to a lesser extent,) AtE's, tunnels on accidental L-1 with 7 people, which he doesn't have a problem with but feels should be punished.

See above. On "tunneling": I count 3 posts I made about Ray (29, 40, 48), the rest were answers to direct questions. Almost all of those questions came from Robo. And then he accuses me of tunneling. Hmmm.

I'll drop the tunneling. Looking back, it't the tone of your posts that seem tunnel-y.

[sic], please claim. I'm willing to hammer.

Too early to claim, not enough info out. You're the only one who's actually made a case, and you're not even on the wagon.

So you want me to hammer you so I'm on the bandwagon, and then you'll claim? It'll be a bit late then. I think hammer, anyway. I would know if the mod had granted my request for a votecount.

Copper, where do you get your town read on him from? How does this post influence it?

Hypocrisy FTW. He's entitled to his opinion, remember?

And that means I can't ask him about it?

Robo, what do you think of [sic]'s recent posts, especially the one above this?
Scott, a2rudeboy, please contribute more.

QFT on the last part. Then again, why would you want to hammer when you can see that some people are getting a pass?

I'm not going to hammer until we're ready.


Copper: I'm not going to hammer until we're ready. In what way do his posts seem genuine?
Exactly, scott. Some people might hate VT and flake as it, some people with scum, etc.

MOD: VOTE-COUNT PLEASE. THANK YOU.

[a2rudeboy]

Alright,apologies for not being around more often. Here's what I'm coming up with.

first off

unvote

I get a strong pro-town read from [sic].

The fail is giving a guy a pass after he puts someone at 3 votes on page 1. Actually, it was only you that did that.

FoS: Robocopter87

This is a good point. I don't follow the argument of people saying that it slipped their minds, or their used to playing in bigger games, as a way of brushing off that they put someone at l-1. It just reeks of laziness to me, something a good pro-town player wouldn't want to do. It doesn't take much to scan a vote count and figure out what's going to happen when you put a vote on someone. Even if it's in the RVS/bandwagon stage, putting someone at l-1 is something I at least view as meaningful. Doing so without (apparently) a reason, or not even noticing, to me is scummy.

As the posting goes on, it turns into a back and forth argument with m=w and sic:

[sic], please claim. I'm willing to hammer.

I'm always leery of people who replace into games and right from their first post start to tunnel on a specific person. I also don't like that he's willing to hammer four pages into d1, barely out of the RVS, with plenty of information still yet to come. Putting someone at l-1 in order to put on pressure and get them talking = pro town. Hammering early on, and trying to push for an early claim = scum.

I wasn't liking RayFrost's play to begin with,as mentioned earlier with the l-1 comment of above. He also seemed to be pretty intense on tunneling early on, with no information to really go off of. Can't tell how serious it was, as it was the RVS mostly still. Also, his posts seems to be all jokes or comments about other games and no analysis or anything else really helpful to town.

For all these reasons:

vote:me=weird

Also, I'm pretty sure there is some m=w, robocopter buddying going on. I should be more accurate and say, robo/ray buddying.

Okay. Were you in my first game ever Rayfrost? Newbie 884?
!

Oh noes I got a finger of suspicion, that effects me so much. Might as well make a scum slip and self vote.


Listen, you are taking the L-1 thing to seriously. You are tunneling on Rayfrost. He put someone at L-1. It takes 3 votes to do that, votes fly in RVS. things happen. Scott didn't die. Its a null tell. Now let it go. Your making it out to be a big drama.

I can understand making that mistake. Its a null. He put someone at L-1 because of a bandwagon, he unvoted, its all right. If you never let go of things you won't have an open mind about things.[/quote]

Whoa whoa. bv310, you can't replace Rayfrost. He posted today! Look at the bottom of page 2.

You can't replace him like that. I'm PMing you to bring this to your attention.

Why such intense defending of RayFrost? It seems to me like you and ray/weird have been doing a pretty good job of working together to focus (tunnel) attention on [sic].

Also i'm not a fan of your flippant way of playing:

Oh noes I got a finger of suspicion, that effects me so much. Might as well make a scum slip and self vote.

Everybody vote you all!

FoS: Robo

[a2rudeboy]

EBWOP: Formatting fail.

Mod can you clean that up?

Just to make sure:

vote:me=weird

[Robocopter87]

Might not be able to post for a while. Might be V/LA for a day or two.

[[sic]]

Hi.
Here's a case on [sic].
OMGUS. Of a random vote. A bit nervous there, eh, scum?
More OMGUS, of something obviously not serious. And that could also be classified as AtE, "and you're helping scum with your vote". Especially since the vote in question wasn't even on him.

Both massive reaches. First post is random vote, for jokey reason. Second post is pointing out that Scott called me scum but is voting for the same guy as me. I really don't get the AtE thing.

First post is voting him for voting you because of brackets. OMGUS. The AtE is where you're almost saying "I'm town so you're helping scum with the vote. You should unvote because I'm town and you're helping scum".

Is a random vote OMGUS a scumtell? Why?

Got the names mixed up in the second part, I was talking to Ray (i.e. the guy I FoSed in that post). Ray voted Scott, then says a couple posts later that a2rudeboy and me are the scum. I'm voting for Scott as well at that point. So he is voting for the same person as someone he just called scum (i.e. me). Hence, helping scum with his vote. No idea where AtE comes into that, I was pointing out a contradiction.

I'll get to the rest of your post later.

[[sic]]

QFT on the last part. Then again, why would you want to hammer when you can see that some people are getting a pass?

I think M=W is smart enough not to hammer after 4 pages of short posts and without a claim, but just in case: Hammering me at this point would be a VERY BAD MOVE.

You are really squirming at L-1

Do you think that a lynch now would be good for the town?