Mini 1021: Battousai's Mountaintnous Mountain Mafia (Over)

[Xite91]

Vote:CommieB

Damn commies

Also,

FoS: ConfidAnon and LoudmouthLee

[Xite91]

I think it has something to do with the suspicion on you. I dunno, you two just seem to be scum-distancing to me (Of course it's RVS, so I'm waiting to actually vote you until you do something vote-worthy. Also, I've always wanted to lynch a commie )

Preview edit - Already on it

[Xite91]

VOTE: iamausername for rolefishing.

Seriously...did you expect any town PRs to reveal themselves? Though I do support scum claims. You first?

You're funny. Do you even read mod-posts?

[Xite91]

VOTE: iamausername for rolefishing.

Seriously...did you expect any town PRs to reveal themselves? Though I do support scum claims. You first?

You're funny. Do you even read mod-posts?

Apparently as well as iamausername

Teehee, you're funny. Do you know much about strategy?

also, why all the commie hate? on paper, communism is the perfect government!

But paper and people are just so.... different. It wouldn't work out the same because paper (unless it's art-based paper) is not greedy.

I'll try and keep updated vote counts, because I like having that information readily available.

My scum-senses are tingling

i don't think that an early claim of VT is scummy. i just did it in my last game where i was VT. also, this game i am VT. BUILDING MY META ITT!

[sarcasm]Really, you're a VT, what a shocker![/sarcasm]

I lol'd

[Xite91]

Hai Xite. Can I ask why you didn't answer my wonderful question?

(more later. kthxbai)

Ironically, this post was right after it;

I think it has something to do with the suspicion on you. I dunno, you two just seem to be scum-distancing to me (Of course it's RVS, so I'm waiting to actually vote you until you do something vote-worthy. Also, I've always wanted to lynch a commie )

Preview edit - Already on it

In other words... Saga, I

do

mind that he was answering for someone else... possibly mafia coaching, perhaps?

I'm going to ignore that as a part of the case, becuase Mr.Old Timer, there are plenty of times that I'll just facepalm at someone asking stupid questions, then I'll answer the stupid question, whether it was directed at me or not, I know others to do that too. Also, what if he were to try and push a lynch on me? Then come to find out that I actually DID answer the question. I'm more apt to believe that Saga is scum based on this than Prana, unless he's coaching Saga, but eh /shrug

@Everyone on this whole wagon thing, get over it, all of you used early scum-catching tactics, all of you seem to have failed, try something else

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to agree with iamusername.

CA, I find it very odd you switched your vote from Lee, which had three people on it, to another person. That's just prolonging the RVS, especially because your reasoning's been sketchy.

Plus, your bandwagons aren't achieving anything but put you under suspicion. So,

FoS:ConfidAnon

In other news, I nostalgia'd at your avatar.

Scummyscummyscumscum
I see a few things here, first one to point them out gets a cookie
Aside from other things I see in this, I like the attempt at buddying, too

@Prana - You're wagon-hopping too

It would be interesting to see, for instance, if player X wagoned player Y but not player Z.

Lolwut?

So, how about a Nexuslynch?
*all the kids in the background yell, hooray! yay!*

Unvote, Vote: Nexus

[Xite91]

Can I get my own cookie?

So if I agree with another user, who I believe to be a townie too, that means I'm a scumbuddy?

Nope, keep guessing.

Everything he just posted last post

@Everyone on this whole wagon thing, get over it, all of you used early scum-catching tactics, all of you seem to have failed, try something else

Trust me it's just easier that way. You're just clogging the thread with useless mafia discussion

[Xite91]

Not got a clue where Xite is going anymore. I don't believe Nexus is scum after that post that Xite is claiming to have seen something in. How's about giving us your information rather than expecting us to play "guess the scumminess"?

you knew where i was going in the first place?

[Xite91]

Ironically, this post was right after it;

I think it has something to do with the suspicion on you.

I dunno, you two just seem to be scum-distancing to me

(Of course it's RVS, so I'm waiting to actually vote you until you do something vote-worthy. Also, I've always wanted to lynch a commie )

Preview edit - Already on it

1) Wrong. Completely wrong. My post was 1 minute before you posted. Then you said "preview edit" which was obviously going to be my answer. Don't go "I answered it lolz". Then what was the preview edit about?

I'm going to ignore that as a part of the case, becuase Mr.Old Timer, there are plenty of times that I'll just facepalm at someone asking stupid questions, then I'll answer the stupid question, whether it was directed at me or not, I know others to do that too. Also, what if he were to try and push a lynch on me? Then come to find out that I actually DID answer the question. I'm more apt to believe that Saga is scum based on this than Prana, unless he's coaching Saga, but eh /shrug

2) /buddying and attacking the person who attacked Prana. Which is moar buddying. /audienceclappingplz

3) Hey if you do it why can't I?

4) (By the way are you male or female? Just so you won't think I'm an idiot.)

1) See bolded. Also,didnt you even say you knew I said that somewhere?
2) Uhm, huh? Explain plox
3) Do what?
4) Take your pick, I never disclosed that to anyone, but if you read my games, you might figure it out. I like to laugh when people get it wrong so I don't say it, also no one else knows, so you won't look like one

[Xite91]

Not got a clue where Xite is going anymore. I don't believe Nexus is scum after that post that Xite is claiming to have seen something in. How's about giving us your information rather than expecting us to play "guess the scumminess"?

you knew where i was going in the first place?

Oh, also, does this mean you think I'm scum? Can you please clarify these things, so that people can see who starts what. That is important scum information IIRC

[Xite91]

Xite, want to actually show us where the scummy factor was in Nexus' post yet, or we still playing the guessing game? After all, why should I clarify anything if you can't be arsed?

*Sigh* do I have to do everything?
It's not that hard to catch

K so I'll start with showing you Nexus' post

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to agree with iamusername.

CA, I find it very odd you switched your vote from Lee, which had three people on it, to another person. That's just prolonging the RVS, especially because your reasoning's been sketchy.

Plus, your bandwagons aren't achieving anything but put you under suspicion. So,

FoS:ConfidAnon

In other news, I nostalgia'd at your avatar.

First thing's first

Here's username's post

CA, you say you are just trying to get a bandwagon going on anyone, but... you moved your vote away from LML, who had several other votes, and who you had actually given some kind of reason to vote onto Leech, who had no other votes for no reason. Why on earth would you think that that is an effective way of getting a bandwagon going?

And why are you just trying to get a random wagon going anyway when there are clearly actual serious cases being made in the game?

The way I see it, all this "I'm just trying to get a wagon going" stuff is just an excuse to avoid accountability for your votes, and I'm not going to stand for that.

First point Nexus uses - An almost replica of username's, yes, (s)he said, I agree, but then she furthers it a bit by saying that it's just prolonging RVS.

Now as she said this, it was page 3, which is still somewhat short for RVS
Also, it took us a bit more out of RVS
And it had nothing to do with what anyone else had said, so it wasn't just an oh, i agree point.
This, my friends, is her making a case someone else has made, but to make it seem like her own, tacking on a point that really doesn't add to much.

Does the same thing

again

as before, this time adding an FoS but not a vote. Why is that Nexus? Are you too afraid to hop on the wagon, but want a placeholder in case it goes anywhere?

Next, she seems to be going ohai, this person has suspicion on them, lets throw down a bit more and see where it goes.

All in all, that post was extremely scummy

[Xite91]

I'm a guy :/

I generally FoS before actually voting, that's how I play. Except in RVS, which case it's pretty pointless to FoS.

I can't really add much more when there isn't much more to add. Sorry about that.

Sorry, will remember that
I FoS'd in RVS, and completely seriously, too. I don't find it pointless.
If that were the case, then you should say you agree and vote, not you agree, restate everything he said, add useless points, then vote. That's what made you seem scummy to me

I'm not seeing it Xite, but then Nexus is playing mafia because I brought it to another forum recently, and he's jumped here to play more games too. There is zero RVS there as it stands (Everyone's scared about being lynched it would appear), so Nexus isn't used to RVS to begin with, so a 3 page RVS would be rather long to him. So it's a null tell to me purely because of current meta from the site he transferred from.

Also, we're only onto our 3rd/4th (running simultaneously) games on the other forum, and Nexus only started up in the second. So he's also pretty new, thus I'm not going to be calling stuff that is generally just noob stuff as scummy.

Well, it's only a small scumtell in that case, but honestly, he's the scummiest person IMO at the moment, unless (as I said) CA and LmL really are distancing, but I don't think it would be made that obvious. Also, you are a slight bit scummy, but to me it's less than Nexus' post.

Here, I'll give my scumlist that is based -mostly- on gut

Saga
Nexus
Havingfitz

Based more on info

CA
LmL
Prana

^Only thing is that I can find all sorts of WIFOM and excuses for those, NtM that I could be being a slight bit influenced by the rest of the group at this point with those 3, which coincidentally are mostly those 3 because they're so goddam active. Seriously guys, this game only started what 1,2 days ago? I love the activity, but try not to burn everyone else out when they try to read the game

commieB has requested replacement.

But why commie? Was I too harsh

[Xite91]

@Prana, I agree on that viewpoint, hence the reason I'm more trusting my gut reactions right now

[Xite91]

Interesting that Im catching your attention after I say that I think you're scum

[Xite91]

^5

?

Xite, I get where you're coming from here, but I'm just not feeling the scumminess from Nexus. I think you're equating typical bad newbie habits with scumminess, and the correlation just isn't really there. Much as I would love the use of FoSing without a vote somewhere else to be a lynch-on-sight offence.

That wasn't the only reason. Yes, I see the noobiness, but I still believe it's more noobscum than just noob.

Here, I'll give my scumlist that is based -mostly- on gut

Saga
Nexus
Havingfitz

No Korashk? What happened to this?

I'll try and keep updated vote counts, because I like having that information readily available.

My scum-senses are tingling

Oh, yeah, I forgot he was even in this game. But no, that was just an observation of the odd. It seems scummy when players keep votecounts. It's hard to explain why though

[Xite91]

Nope, can you explain it further? ;P

Well of course, that much I knew, but I don't know, there's more to it than that, but maybe just a few separate cases of such. Iunno, can't figure it out, it just seemed, as I said, odd to me

[Xite91]

OHAI LAT!
Great to see that you're back in games

[Xite91]

Xite...my comments regarding you catching my attention were more due to the fact you seem to be one of the more active posters and had engaged me directly. My reread did not reveal anything that jumped out att. But I'm watching you.

Aside from the voted suspect...my reread also left me a bit suspicious of Prana. I'll effort to confirm/support those suspicions but for now my vote should be enough.

Okay, so dalt lied. I don't much like that but I'm willing to let him explain himself
Next, so you noticed me because I said you're scummy right? And then proceeded to say you were watching me? So you're pulling slight OMGUS?
Also, your vote is on Dalt, so how should your vote be enough to help confirm/support the suspicions on prana?

Next,

Dalt has also switched his "random" vote. He voted saga, until told it wouldn't count, and then he changed his vote. I find that suspicious.

Really Nexus? Again?

So far, these two have done nothing to dismiss my scummy view on them.

I would like to see more from Saga

Confid is town
Username is probtown
Don't know how to feel about LmL
Would like to see posts from Lat
Probably need to ISO leech before I can make a decision on him
Korashk hasn't posted in a bit, I don't like this. I do, however, expect great things from him for some reason

[Xite91]

How about this, make your own case on someone no one else has made a case one

that you think is scummy

and try to push the lynch. If you do this (well), it will greatly decrease my suspicion on you

[Xite91]

1) I'm starting to get the feeling Xite is actively searching for things to try and comment on, regardless of how small and pointless, in the interests of "scum hunting".

2) I also notice how CA, who is currently taking the lead in votes, is given a nod towards being town according to Xite, but no reason is given. Sly attempt to buddy, or slight attempt to convince everyone your partner is town Xite?

3) Also Xite, what if Nexus (or anyone to be honest) finds that the players they feel are scummy have already been commented on? Are they to then outright ignore those players and try calling someone they feel is town out as scum, despite not feeling that way towards them?

4) Sorry, but your demand to make a case on someone else unnerves me quite severely. It's like saying "Don't look in this direction, look somewhere else or you're scummy".

5) I'd be happy on either an Xite or a CA lynch right about now. I would be wholly against a Dalt one either.

1) up until regardless... Uhm, duh? It's mafia? After that; I'm not seeing it being small and pointless. I'm giving my views.
2) Nope, just looking at how things are going, and I definitely think he's not scum. Also, it has something to do with how he was attacked/Who was attacking him.
3) Nope, I just want him to stop going with the crowd. It seem's almost opportunistic how he's playing and I don't much like it.
4) I don't think I ever said not me in my request. If he finds me scummy, then I wholly encourage him to try and get me lynched. Of course he's going to see my responses and have to judge from there, just like how I would expect it to be with anyone he made a case on. I just don't want any more "Oh I'm a noob, don't lynch me plox" because that, IMHO is a noobscum tell. This is my exercise for him to help him be a better player.
5) Of course you would. You're cute you know that?

[Xite91]

EBWOP on point 5
This point was made about this sentence
"I would be wholly against a Dalt one either."
Because of the would. It is either a typo (which I'm willing to believe) or a clear-all

[Xite91]

To start, I like this, but who do you think is scum?

1) Right. I think you're being far too harsh on me, and it's quite unnecessary. I don't really are about how suspicious you are about me, you're wrong.

2) LmL posted his "roleclaim" as Vanilla Townie. Did he realise it was a joke?

3) Korashk updated the votecount for no reason...it didn't really need to be done. And again. He says "I like having that information readily available..." why not just have it on his computer in notepad or excel? Buddying up/coaching? It's possible.

4) LmL then takes his random vote off of PranaDevil, and then...puts it back on again. Really really no need to highlight that, unless he's desperate to start a lynchwagon. It's still partly an OMGUS vote, and he doesn't really give a decent reason for it not to be, which is silly.

5) The fact that xite was being a bit of a troll by refusing to tell people what was scummy in my post was quite pointless-it was just distracting people. Maybe playing games with the rest of the players is a way to distract us?

6) Also, xite says I'm second most suspicious, but is on my ass the most. So, it's bordering on tunnelling.

7) This point's gonna be trouble causing, but: Post #98. Is it scum telling scum that they're here for them. It probably isn't, and I'm picking up on nothing, but something worth looking at.

8) Not really much else I've got to say. Xite probably will say it's not good enough.

9) Re: Point 3. If I don't post, then that's scummy too. I dunno what else to say. I've tried to give some information, which is what I typed as I read posts.

1) I try to be harsh to all noobs, when dalt starts posting more, I'll probably be an ass to him too. It's my way of helping you learn the game, also, it's my way of helping you grow a backbone. I started mafia with some of the biggest assholes you could imagine and I almost ragequit (If I didn't love the game so much before I even started I would have) My point being that there are some really mean mafia players out there. If you get started with someone only being as bad as me, you'll just learn to enjoy it and maybe even throw some blows back at them, hopefully in the right way. Also, can you rewrite that last sentence? I think you missed a few words there.
2) I don't think it was a joke. It's actually a good way to catch clueless scum in a game like this.
3) Where is the buddying up/coaching in that post?
4) I think he explained this. I've actually seen games played the way he's playing. People are a bit more jumpy in games like that, typically, so you have to specify things like that
5) Nope, sadly enough that was also a gambit. Yes I see you as scummy, but I wanted to see your reaction to clear/raise my suspicions on you. See? I'm giving you chances
6) Wait where exactly do I say you're second most suspicious? If you were then my vote would be on my first most suspicious. Simple as that.
7) Oh, you mean this post?

OHAI LAT!
Great to see that you're back in games

He recently replaced out of all the games he was in, so I was welcoming him back to the game. Also, I'm curious why he had to go and stuffs.
8) It was good-ish but not what I asked for. I want a case on who you think is scummy and why. If it is just the two people you piggyback cased on, then so be it, but it better be a damned good case.

[Xite91]

goddamn ninja

1) Dalt lied. Town has no reason to lie IMO. I agree he should explain himself.
2) No...does the fact you suspect me preclude me from bringing you up in conversation? So...aren't we all watching everyone? How?
3) My vote on Dalt has nothing to do with Prana. Two points in the same sentence....think of it as a bonus.

1) Most of the time. I think there was a discussion somewhere in the forums that sometimes a town lie is the best way to win, most of the time no, and in this case almost definitely not, but LaL can be a terribly bad policy.
2) Uhm...

Xite...

my comments regarding you catching my attention were more due to the fact you seem to be one of the more active posters and had engaged me directly

. My reread did not reveal anything that jumped out att. But I'm watching you.

Bolded. You practically admitted to not noticing me until I posted that you were suspicious. And now you're watching me?
3) Fair enough

[Xite91]

Sorry, I meant that: "I like having that information readily available..." I see as possibly being scumcoaching/buddying, because it's like "I've written the information for you too, my buddy." I'm no doubt reading too much into it.

The last sentence should read: "I've tried to give some information from what I've read, it's probably repeating some stuff, but that's 'cos I was typing it as I read each post."

1. Fine. I don't mind now you've explained. I just assumed you were being a jerk like I've experienced with no reason. Now worries.

5. I'm trying to answer your suspicions as best I can, but I've read through all the posts and that long post is what I came up with.

6. Post 87. You've named me, saga and havingfitz. I assumed you'd done it in the order of suspicion because of the way you'd laid it out. If that's wrong, apologies

7. I assumed it might be innocent, but hey, I needed to highlight it to get you to explain it.

First two things: Okay fair enough, I can see where youre coming from with that, and the sentence makes sense now
1) there are those kinds of people. I'm trying to get you ready for them
5) That's all I'm asking for
6) Haha, I figured. Best thing to do in those situations is to ask before assuming, like this (real question) Is that list you made in order of your suspicions?
7) Fair enough

[Xite91]

Before I continue with a large post 9as

I will only get a chance for one post today

... I would like to mention that this is Nexus's "suspicion" list, yet his vote is currently levied on me, 4th on his list. This screams of blustering at fellow scum but not voting for them. You can call it OMGUS if you feel like it. I say it's worthy of a vote.

Longer post upcoming.

Will you now? Interesting considering the next many posts you make.

I'm just getting quite a vibe from you. I'm really leaning towards Prana and CA looking scummy because they're overposters, that Nexus is scummy based on inconsistent behavior, and Dalt may very well be his scum partner that he would be throwing under the bus to clear his name for the rest of the game. I've played that way in a Normal Game here before.. and it worked.

I like the vote on Nexus, and I think that the most of you should follow. We can lynch Dalt tomorrow.

First, That last line of stuff, watihuh? That does seem a bit scummy to me
I really hope that you mean nexus is throwing dalt under the bus considering these are dalts 3 posts

Hey so i really don't know whats going on yet. I play mafia all the time, but this is the first on this site, could someone give me a quick rundown of the basics? ive read the wiki and stuff, but i see like you have to vote with colons and stuff.

also the first day is 28 days?

saga

just cause he voted me. now this place plays mafia alot different than i do, so please dont jump on me, i have to adjust.

okay sorry i'm new.

Vote: Korashk

for not yet knowing that i'm really good at this game.

Also, If Dalt is scum, I can see Korashk as his partner simply based on the last one. IIRC there was nothing posted before this that needed a response like his vote reason. Something they talked about pre-game?

Eh I'm still kinda new to this site (Played 3 games, all of which I replaced out of) but aren't those lists anti-town? It's good to know who you're suspicious but I don't really see how they actually help the town catch scum. Plus scum could use them as a tool to decide who to night kill in order to frame someone.

They can be, but honestly it's a debate that's been going on since the dawn of mafia. Choose your side, and please no sparkly vampires.

LmL, that's because my vote's still there to see how you reacted. Also I sort of forgot I hadn't unvoted. You say it's not OMGUS but to me it still slightly smells of it, so now I'm keeping it where it is and waiting to see your long post.

"It's cuz I had a reason, oh and in case that's not good enough I also forgot"

Currently (and this could change), there's not so much suspicion on me. Actually, the first time I even brought up your name was a mere 3 posts ago.

Otherwise, you were largely ignored. Why is that? Because you did something really scummy, which I pointed out.

Why don't you explain your lists again. Explain why CA is so high on your list, but "not really scummy" according to a previous post.

Bolded. I hope you meant largely ignored by you, also give credit where credit is due. If he turns out to be scum, do you know who I'm going after next?
If you guessed LmL then you're correct!

PS: Nexus, I don't even know who you are! You're a goon. You wanna know who I have a vendetta against? Mr. Flay. He and I go way far back, and that's a true vendetta. You're just really defensive... maybe even worse than me.

[/threadclog]

that's better

1) If that's your opinion ok. I see more value to scum lying about being new than about town lying about being new.
2) Uhm...

You're funny. Do you even read mod-posts?

Teehee, you're funny. Do you know much about strategy?

would be the supporting examples of you engaging me directly. Just putting my name down on a list is not engaging me. BTW...did you happen to notice the reread line about not seeing anything suspicious about you? Or the part in my initial post that said you had caught my attention, i.e. does attention = suspicion?

1) We'll agree to disagree on this one, after I say one thing; Alts
2) Okay, fair enough, it's just a coincidence that you pointed it out almost right after I called you scummy. Works for me I guess

@Lat, i understand the failing lifestlye change, I've done that before

[Xite91]

@Korashk - Leave the votecounts to the mod. He's probably better at it. You're posting something to make it seem like you're actually doing something, when you're not. How about you actually read past the second or third page and analyze it? That's what good townies are supposed to do. We'll do votecount analysis when necessary, but words are stronger and words are what you'll need to build a case on.

@Prana
4) I wasn't trying to defend anyone, I was trying to teach a newbie a valuable lesson AKA not to piggyback on someone else's case.
5) I agree, but like I said, I'd like to see what he has to say first. Speeking of which, where is he?

Right, so there's a little pressure on you from others, not even votes yet, and yet you come rushing in and vote me citing that you don't believe my explanation of baiting scum? It's not exactly like I'm the only person who does it. I picked up the idea from RayFrost in fact when I played a newbie game with him, I wound up hating RVS so I'll do what needs to be done to get out of it, even if that makes me look a little scummy to begin with. Much better that than spending 5 or so pages doing nothing but joking about. I'd rather get straight in there.

Giggity

[Xite91]

Wrong wording, perhaps. I don't intend to push for a lynch this early, but I did suspect him.

He is trying to act like there has been some misunderstanding here, but let's take a look at that original 'wrong wording' post:

No, I am pushing for your lynch based on the curious comment after you said you tried to start a bandwagon. It seems, to me at least, that the only motivation to call something out as "curious" is to leave it open as an avenue of suspicion. This is hypocritical in regards to you wanting to start a bandwagon.

No, I am pushing for your lynch based on the curious comment after you said you tried to start a bandwagon.

I am pushing for your lynch

you know, I really appreciate you trying to make it clear for us, but first looking at this, I thought this was three separate posts, at re-looking at it I realized it was one that was shortened down a bit at a time. A simple bolding would suffice.

Also, maybe the wrong wording was on his part? Just sayin

[Xite91]

1) You claim to have been seriously trying to catch scum off guard, and someone actually posted a comment that fits the bill. Oddly enough, I haven't seen you mention it a single time. If those were really your intentions, why didnt you pursue them when someone did react in the exact manner you described? Clearly with the people laughing at your proposal before Havingfitz replied, that is an indication that he posted before reading the comments about your suggestion being funny. Not reading the thread before you post brings up an entirely new area that you could have pursued. Instead of doing any of this, you just dismissed your idea. I don't see why you'd go to the lengths to actually attempt that gambit just to abandon it so quickly.

2) Really? Funny, I don't get to play scum very often, so when I have to replace out of games those are the ones that I keep. That could just be me, but I don't see someone replacing out just because they are scum. In any event seeking replacement is a null tell. Also, the last time I saw someone make a comment like that was in a newbie game, when the accuser flipped scum. I have seen this from scum before, so I will:

Unvote, Vote: Nexus

3) What kind of Monty Python logic drew you to that conclusion? He clearly stated that he caught your attention because you are more active, (obviously a lot of activity draws attention) and simply stated you had interacted with him directly. It's far easier to "get into" a game when there's a personal touch. When you aren't interacting with anyone, in specific, it's really hard to get momentum early on in the game.

4) @Everyone: I'm going to politely ask that you stop posting scumlists. While it can be a benefit to the town, it also goes a long way in showing the scum how well they are blending in, or if they need to improve on it. When they are actually beneficial, is later on in the game.

Korashk posting vote counts really isn't sitting well with me, nor are some of his comments:

With that said I still have two more things that I think we should all remember:
1.) There are ten of us, we need to work as a team. We are not individuals (well we are, but you know what I mean).
2.) There are ten of us, it's okay if we lynch a townie or two on accident. Even a lynched townie garners information for us to analyze.

5) This just looks like he's adding more content to his post for the sake of adding more content. It's not like he added any theories or concepts that any of us would be unfamilar with, he posted something that is pretty much common sense. This, from my perspective, is an attempt to look like you're helping while adding nothing that will actually help the game progress. This can be a scum tactic to appear helpful while making safe comments that can't bite him in the ass later.

1) Considering he was trying to get a pr claim? Also, so fitz didn't have a clue about it being all townies, that means he doesn't read mod-posts, not that he's scum. I've missed a joke before and he was probably thinking "What's so funny?." Meh, just speculation. That one post does not make him scum, his case on Dalt? Maybe
2) I'll remember that if I end up playing any other games with you/ if I see you replacing out of other games. Also, that's more a what if scenario. I probably wouldn't replace out as scum either, but I also wouldn't replace out as a PR, or if I really like the game I'm in. Other's would rather play town. See where I'm going with this?
3) Read the game again, think, then repost what you discovered. (Lol Lat, remember that?). Anyways, it was discussed by me and fitz if I recall and there was a bit of a misunderstanding and we fixed it.
4) Seriously, this is a debate that has been going on as long as Mafia has, right LmL? It can also be helpful to town by analysis of where suspicions lay yadda yadda yadda, I'm sure there's something about it in mafia discussion, go check it out.
5) I saw it more as an excuse in case he gets a townie lynched. o.o
Also, yes, we are individuals, we're just working to figure out which of those individuals don't belong in the group

[Xite91]

Another thing you're ignoring is my reason for not voting in the first post.

It's really easy to ignore something that's not there tho

[Xite91]

@LmL - What did that last sentence mean exactly? Was it in referral to what I was saying, or was it in referral to when scumlists change?

[Xite91]

@LmL - What did that last sentence mean exactly? Was it in referral to what I was saying, or was it in referral to when scumlists change?

[Xite91]

@LmL - What did that last sentence mean exactly?

Was it in referral to what I was saying, or was it in referral to when scumlists change?

*facepalm*

[Xite91]

Ok, so these are the lists.

My suspicions are thus:

Dalt. He's lied, he changed his RVS for no real reason, and he has been quiet since.
Korashk. He totted up the votes twice, for no real reason. Posting them in the thread just adds clutter, and at a RVS, it's even more unnecessary.
LmL. He got very defensive when the wagon rolled around. Since then, he had an argument with Prana which didn't really achieve much.
Prana. Same as LmL. When challenged about his wagonning, he got really defensive.
CA. He didn't take kindly to the wagon. However, not that suspicious.
Xite. I don't find you suspicious, I can see what you're trying to do.
Fitz. Has highlighted suspicions of fitz. Not really suspicious.
Lat. Hasn't posted yet, but is lurking the thread. Suspicious.

This one points out these as suspicious
Dalt
Korashk
LmL
Prana
CA
Lat.

The other two (me and fitz) were chimed off as not suspicious

My list is:

Dalt,
Korashk,
Lat,
CA,
LmL,
Prana,
Everyone else.

They are pretty close in order and it's the same exact people. Although neither of them were clarified to be most scummy to least scummy, I'm assuming the second one is more likely to be, but the first one could be.

Alright, Lateralus, I'll move you down the suspicion list now that you've explained yourself. I just wanted to highlight it to begin with until you had a change to respond.

Dalt,
Korashk,
CA,
LmL,
Prana,
Lat,
Everyone else.

All he did was what he said. Just sayin.
Same exact people on the list, just Lat is lowered

[Xite91]

Oh, ok I missed that part

[Xite91]

The reason I haven't unvoted you now is that I assumed that if I did, now I've been challenged, I'd be seen as scum. However, as I'm getting close to being lynched, I'll

unvote

and vote the person who I think is most suspicious once I've reread the thread again.

First, vote whoever you think is scummiest, then change your vote when that changes. That's how it works. Don't just unvote, because not having your vote on anyone looks extremely scummy most of the time because it deprives town of information.
Second, never Ever not change your vote because you're afraid it will look scummy if you do. You'll get a lot more suspicion from keeping your vote on someone you don't believe is scum.
Third, how many times do you have to reread the thread? Nexus, poor lad, stick with your gut, make cases based on that, and push the cases into the rest of the players' faces. That's how you play this game. Don't second guess yourself, lest ye always be lynchee #1.

Now that my noob lesson is over and nexus looks a little less scum and more noob (I don't think even noobscum would admit to that top line, but eh, he's still my top suspect)

@Lat - I could quote your whole post, but how many wall posts do you really wanna see from me? You know I'm capable of it.
Anyways, it could be just a coincidence, CA, LmL, Prana does sound better after all. That's why I posted them in that order Either way, you seem to be looking for a reason to vote the biggest wagon. For some reason, if Nexus flips town, you're going to be super-scummy to me

@CA - See first sentence to Lat, although you don't know yet how capable of it I am.
Why? Eh, just gut based on what I've seen.
I lol'd at your 1,2,3
Scumtell question - It was the way he did it, I saw it too. I wish I could reference ongoing games in order to show you a perfect example of why this is scummy. Otherwise, it's hard to explain.
Agreed on all of your Korashk points

1) Yes, and I'm in complete agreement. Replacing out is null. The fact that Nexus actually tried passing that off as scummy, in the manner he did, really strikes a chord with me. Especially consdiring I have seen scum, in previous games, make extremely similar comments about someone asking for replacement.

2) I consider his HF's post null. What I find suspicious is how his post fit the exact description of Iam's gambit, yet he abandoned it before even questioning that post. If you deliberately make a play seeking a specific reaction, then you typically don't ignore that reaction when it happens. Unless, of course, you weren't really doing it for that reaction. I find that to be more of a scumtell.

The rest I'll leave their prospective players to respond to.
1) This is a debate that's been going on forever, too. I've seen pro-town players say it too. It's just a belief some players have and others don't. It's kind of like a mafia superstition.

2) Or he just didn't care for it because his purpose of the gambit was to catch scum lying about a PR, not to see if someone hadn't read the rules. Goddamn read the thread man!

[Xite91]

Hey so i really don't know whats going on yet. I play mafia all the time, but this is the first on this site, could someone give me a quick rundown of the basics? ive read the wiki and stuff, but i see like you have to vote with colons and stuff.

also the first day is 28 days?

So he was confused? So what?
On the site I played on before this you had to vote like this

##Vote: XXXX

I almost did this in my first game one here, but saw that it wasn't necessary.
And, ok he made a mistake? I accidentally forget to put vote into some of my votes, does that make me scummy too?
He asked for a quick rundown on how the site worked, maybe he forgot? He's playing on other sites.
I would be insulting you greatly if I didn't think that the mod would give me shit for it.

[Xite91]

CA, I like your breadcrumbing there. Starting to lose that

gut

loving feelin

[Xite91]

[meta] When a newbie comes into a game, the hardest role for them to play is indeed vanilla townie. They become bored with the game, having no night actions and lose all sorts of interest in the game. I've seen it in Newbie games before. People don't like being Vanilla. They'd rather be a cop, or a vig, or scum, or a doc. They'd rather be someone. With that being said, Dalt, IMHO, isn't doing a job of "Lying low because he's scum." I think he's "disillusioned because he's not an interesting role.

" I do reserve the right to change this later, but for now, I'm not comfortable with a Dalt lynch.

[/meta]

That "request of replacement" really makes me wonder, quite a bit. It's something to keep an eye on.

@Nexus: Something I've noticed is the mafia buddying-up play, where a scum merely mimics the mindset of someone that scum knows is pro-town. Do you think that your "list"

could be seen

as buddying up? (Note: I wasn't asking you if you were buddying up. I'm asking if, separating yourself from the situation, that someone could look at both of yours and

XCite's

lists and think that you were "following him.")

I agree on the meta, but it's another superstition that you're going to have to let go of, and go more based on words, that being said, Dalt needs to start playing, because I really hate lurker-lynching policies
Also, bolded - this seems reeeeaaaally cautious

It's eh. I think that yes, it could be suspicious, but you might want to check if this is the only game he's replacing out of.

Underlined - It's Xite, pronounced zite, sorry that's just a peeve of mine

[Xite91]

EBWOP guess I got a bit ahead of myself, I left out half my post.

Korashk has requested replacement!

Ugh.

QFT

@CA: I think we're on the same Dalt page. I'm actually feeling like a HF lynch would be almost better than a Dalt lynch. Has HF been on any wagons at all? I did find it interesting that you liked the points thrown out at nexus, and in the same post, voted for Korashk without even an FOS of Nexus. Do you think that Nexus is pro-town or anti-town? Why?

I don't really use FoS's that much . . . they are kind of pointless, and saying you suspect someone gets the point across. I think Nexus is anti-town with the inconsistant suspicions but that could easily be a newb tell.

The suspicions aren't that inconsistent, and he only changes what he says he would change. Where are the inconsistencies?
Anyways, I got enough information from it to do this, though;

Unvote, Vote: Lat

We'll see where this takes us

Also, ok, well we should wait to see if he replaces out of that one before we get too suspicious

[Xite91]

Okay, makes sense, but hasn't he already explained those things?

[Xite91]

67 (xite) - Saying that everyone who has used early scumcatching things "seems to have failed" rubs me wrong. Now it could be that xite thinks that CA, PD and LML are all town here, not sure, although to not be a scumslip this would have to be true. Now, this also begs the question of why xite is doing nothing to diffuse the "town on town" fighting that they would expect to be occuring here. Odd enough he called CA and LML distancing scum earlier.
87 (xite) - Ok cool. Xite is scum as he is now saying that CA, PD and LML are all scum on information, which seems to go against them all "failing to catch scum" when what they did made them all go for eachother.

Post 67: Ironically, that was my way of trying to diffuse the situation, I was getting tired of the thread-clogging on "Oh, he claimed to use a gambit, but I don't believe it" It's become annoying rereading the same case back and forth that shouldn't have gone past a post or two.
Post 87: If you look later you'll see me say that that is precisely why I was going more on gut than on information, because a lot of the information is too biased and is making me frustrated trying to reed any of it out.

I am glad to finally see a case against me, though, this is what makes the game fun

[Xite91]

FoS: Xite

I find it somewhat suspect that you unvoted the current voteleader onto someone without a bandwagon at all. You haver defended Nexus quite a bit, and if Nexus turns up scum, it could very easily be seen as a link. (I do think that Nexus still has not done enough to gain the benefit of the doubt here.

Want to see my original case against Nexus?

Xite, want to actually show us where the scummy factor was in Nexus' post yet, or we still playing the guessing game? After all, why should I clarify anything if you can't be arsed?

*Sigh* do I have to do everything?
It's not that hard to catch

K so I'll start with showing you Nexus' post

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to agree with iamusername.

CA, I find it very odd you switched your vote from Lee, which had three people on it, to another person. That's just prolonging the RVS, especially because your reasoning's been sketchy.

Plus, your bandwagons aren't achieving anything but put you under suspicion. So,

FoS:ConfidAnon

In other news, I nostalgia'd at your avatar.

First thing's first

Here's username's post

CA, you say you are just trying to get a bandwagon going on anyone, but... you moved your vote away from LML, who had several other votes, and who you had actually given some kind of reason to vote onto Leech, who had no other votes for no reason. Why on earth would you think that that is an effective way of getting a bandwagon going?

And why are you just trying to get a random wagon going anyway when there are clearly actual serious cases being made in the game?

The way I see it, all this "I'm just trying to get a wagon going" stuff is just an excuse to avoid accountability for your votes, and I'm not going to stand for that.

First point Nexus uses - An almost replica of username's, yes, (s)he said, I agree, but then she furthers it a bit by saying that it's just prolonging RVS.

Now as she said this, it was page 3, which is still somewhat short for RVS
Also, it took us a bit more out of RVS
And it had nothing to do with what anyone else had said, so it wasn't just an oh, i agree point.
This, my friends, is her making a case someone else has made, but to make it seem like her own, tacking on a point that really doesn't add to much.

Does the same thing

again

as before, this time adding an FoS but not a vote. Why is that Nexus? Are you too afraid to hop on the wagon, but want a placeholder in case it goes anywhere?

Next, she seems to be going ohai, this person has suspicion on them, lets throw down a bit more and see where it goes.

All in all, that post was extremely scummy

Ta-Da!
Here's pretty much what I did;
1) It was pretty easy to tell that Nexus was a newb which means;
a) If town, no matter what they do, if attacked, they will probably defend in a scummy way (Making it easier to make them look like scum)
b) They'll probably overreact to almost everything
c) Usually newbscum are more reserved out of fear of being caught (the way he posts is why I'm pretty sure he's town, it's without fear/worry)
2) Try and point out a post that, if skewed ridiculously, looks scummy and ask for a case from it
3) If this doesn't work (which it didn't obviously) resort to plan B, make a case yourself and see who follows it
4) I have this knack for making believable cases when I don't even believe in them, I guess, because a few people followed it, but the way they did it seemed town enough, so I kept up the charade, hoping more people would jump on.
5) Nexus did a great job of making himself "seem" scummy to you guys, too, exactly the way I'd hoped he would
5) Lat jumped on, which would have been not-so-scummy, if it weren't for the way he did it, he seemed to be looking for more things to throw at him and attacking him in a way that just doesn't look townish to me at all, (it almost made my skin crawl reading it, and I was glad that I didn't get that kind of an attack as a newb, it would have made me

want

to claim scum, even if I was town) hence my vote on Lat.

And that, my friends, is how to perform a successful gambit. Learn it, love it, and join the Lat wagon.

[Xite91]

We'll see where this takes us

1) Where would you like me to take you?

@Lat: I let the thread know that I was going to be away, primarily for the weekend. I didn't get a chance to really question him yet. It'll happen. Sometimes, Lat, you just got to let them talk. When they don't feel threatened, the scum tends to slip up more than when they're on guard.

Alright.

@Xite

2) So Xite, scum slip much? You seem to automatically assume Nexus is 100% town?

4) I have this knack for making believable cases when I don't even believe in them, I guess, because a few people followed it, but the way they did it seemed town enough, so I kept up the charade, hoping more people would jump on.

3) Does this mean the points you make against Nexus are not real scum tells?

5) Nexus did a great job of making himself "seem" scummy to you guys, too, exactly the way I'd hoped he would

4) Not liking how you're using Nexus as a tool. So if a town newbie makes himself look scummy (I am assuming this is your reason for "knowing" Nexus is town) does this mean a newbie scum will not look scummy?

c) Usually newbscum are more reserved out of fear of being caught (the way he posts is why I'm pretty sure he's town, it's without fear/worry)

5) Going back to the last question, if newbie scum does not act scummy does this not make your last point null?

b) They'll probably overreact to almost everything

6) Why'd you add this point in? From my point of view it only looked like Nexus overreacted in one post, then he got back on track and remained calm.

1) A scumlynch
2) Scumslip? Where? And I don't know %100 that he's town, but he seems a lot more town-like than you do
3) In some situations, they are, in Nexus' situation? Probably not
4) I'm sorry? I think he can react to it how he will, and he might not be too happy with me, but I'm pretty sure that he's the one that gets to get angry at me for using him as a tool. This sentence sounds a lot like you trying to discredit me. My reason for being pretty sure he's town is because of the "slips" he's making. They do seem more attributed to noobtown than to noobscum.
5) I'm talking in generalities, most of the time, people that will claim noob have very specific ways of acting.
6) I was giving you my whole perspective, he didn't overreact so much as I thought he would, but he still reacted enough to gain more suspicion, which didn't make it a failed attempt at catching scum

[Xite91]

2) I DON'T think he is scum, that's what I said isn't it? I don't see the slip. Yes, he may be scum, but you're looking much scummier
3) Because IMO noob scum tells are different
4) No, I was happy it seems to have worked.
5) Uhm, what? Generalities as in, generally, noobtown do this, and noobscum do this. They generally have a very specific way of acting
6) Not both of them yet, but I'm pretty sure I've got one. and here's a hint, I'm voting for him

[Xite91]

2. Really, go back and quote a post you made where honestly thought Nexus was scummy or scum. Do it. Every single "honest" post you made was saying Nexus is town, no ifs or maybes, he's just town.

a) You posted your case on post (#87) but you started your gambit (#67). You started off attacking Nexus to make others believe you thought he was scum, because this is an act this means you did not believe he was scum. Nexus only had three posts before you started your gambit.


Post (#221) you start off your explanation with Nexus is noob. You also have an extreme belief he is town.

4) I have this knack for making believable cases when I don't even believe in them, I guess, because a few people followed it, but the way they did it seemed town enough, so I kept up the charade, hoping more people would jump on.

b) Charade... This means your very early posts were not investigations, you did not investigate him because you knew he was town. That is why you used him in order to see how people would react. Meaning you figured out he was town in only 3 posts. If you truly were investigating Nexus in order to see if he might have been scum you would have mentioned it. A simply

"Ah well I started off my gambit using Nexus, I didn't really know what he was but I figured he would be a good tool to use in order or draw out scum or his reactions might even tell me he was scum."

would have made more sense. Why didn't you say that, because you were not interested in Nexus's role, only the reactions of others. No as scum you thought the best thing you could do is influence others to attack Nexus then frame them because obviously Nexus was so town.

3) Because IMO noob scum tells are different
4) No, I was happy it seems to have worked.
5) Uhm, what? Generalities as in, generally, noobtown do this, and noobscum do this. They generally have a very specific way of acting
6) Not both of them yet, but I'm pretty sure I've got one. and here's a hint, I'm voting for him

3. Find every noob tell that Nexus has that you claim is different from a scum tell and give me one or more examples to prove or support it.

5. alright then.

6. "Shrugs" If you're town this is really silly. I believe you suspect me because I was asking Nexus questions in an agressive way correct?

2) Why the hell would I need to do that? It's the opposite from what I'm saying, so why would it be important? Just wonderin
a) Aaaaaaaand?
b) At that point I was thoroughly convinced he was town, that's why it was a charade. Did you ever stop to think that I was seeing others' reactions not only to see if they were scum, but who was buddying/distancing?
3) F*** That. Why don't you just ISO him and see for yourself?
6) Discrediting me again? Hmm
Also, it wasn't just because it was aggressive (hell I get aggressive) It was in the way that you attacked him in a way that seemed less like you believed in it and more like you were just trying to cast more suspicion on an innocent townie

A few people are focusing on his number of posts. He said this was the first he’s played on this site.

With a join time of 2008, his comment on the days being 28 RL days long,

and voting improperly, I was suspicious enough to do a search on him. It did not matter to me how much he had posted. I did not see that he had replaced out as iirc someone mentioned. All that mattered to me was that he had played (i.e. lied in this game) and he knew how to vote properly…as displayed by his previous game and by the fact he alluded to the voting rules in his first post in this game. Now he is lurking as well. Rather than other’s coming to his defense…perhaps he should rather than just giving us this:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he say that AFTER you did your little check-up on him?

[Xite91]

I'll probably respond to Xite later today or tomorrow.

I lol'd a little

[Xite91]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he say that AFTER you did your little check-up on him?

You would be wrong

By "correct", I meant "prove to me," but eh, honestly, this whole Dalt Did/Didn't lie argument is making me hate this game and reading it so much. Honestly, the only thing it's doing other than diluting the tread more, is making my second idea for scum stronger and stronger.

FoS: Havingfitz

I think Lat should suggest to have his title changed to "The Poet" in honor of this game.

Hafingfitz and CA need to read the thread, especially modposts

That "You think Nexus is town? OMG scumslip!!" nonsense has pushed him over the edge, I think.

He was convinced Nexus was town after only three posts, that doesn't seem right to me at all.

Not convinced, pretty sure. Sides, if he wasn't, we'd find out, didn't add that part partially because it seemed obvious, and partially because it really wasn't my intent to catch Nexus-scum because I didn't think he was scum, and still don't.

Xite

1. First off the whole basis of my case against is that he pretty much "knows" Nexus is town. It seems that he's been doing some sort of gambit the whole time and the basis of that was that Nexus was town and he'd get some sort of reactions from the scum. This relied heavily on Nexus being town, which it seems he deduced from reading only three posts. That is the major part that doesn't sit right with me.

2. Again going onto Nexus is town gotta see what scum will do. He states "And this is how you make a successful gambit" meaning that he finished what he needed to do. Now he only said earlier on that he wanted to see reactions because Nexus was town and he made a fake scum tell to lure them. He never once states (Until after I mentioned he wasn't investigating.) that he was also looking to see if Nexus was scum. If he truly was he would have told us, but he didn't. Scum does not need to investigate anyone in this game because they know everyone's role.

2) Why the hell would I need to do that? It's the opposite from what I'm saying, so why would it be important? Just wonderin

This would prove my accusation of you making a scum slip is false, I figured you'd want to make my whole case null.

a. Go back to you didn't investigate him because you knew he was town. Only scum knows who and who is town.

b. This means you figured out he was town in only three posts. That's pretty risky for a gambit that would go on for such a long time wouldn't you agree?

3. I honestly want to know why they aren't scumtells in this situation.

6. Nah, just putting out my thoughts. You can see above my reasoing from when I was attacking Nexus and why.

If I am missing something important or anything is unclear let me know so I can clarify my thoughts or anything on this post that is confusing.

1) See Above. What can I say? I'm becoming a master of early-tells
2) Ok, and? See above, also, see 1
Youre gonna hafta explain that bit after the quote, I'm confus
a) See 2
b) Not really, if things changed, my view would change, and I'd go from there, that's what you're supposed to do in this game, IIRC
3) Because of the way he's doing it? I like to call it an informed gut reaction

[Xite91]

208 (xite) - I like the move of trying to put a vote on someone who is not getting pressure right now. I do not like the part about waiting to see if dalt gets replaced in other games though before making up mind too much. What does that have to do with anything?
218 (xite) - How is the information biased? I thought that was the difference between inherent and research knowledge. Biased information is still gut, simply fancy. Just like High Class British Gut compared to Inbred Redneck Gut.
221 (xite) - If I have this right, you thought that nexus was a newbie showing some town tells, so you attacked him to see who would bandwagon, knowing that he would be bad at defending himself and look scummy? First, that is not a 'gambit', more of a trap, but not a good one, since most people will attack 'scummy'. By the same logic wouldnt you expect any newbie town to see the scumtells and jump on it? I just do not see this as without lots of pitfalls scattered throughout it. The wierdest part is, I actually can see the Nexus-town mindset in some of your posts, which was odd given your vote on him. This just is wierd.

unvote

as I realize I never did upon replacing in.

CA, fitz and xite are scummy to me at this point. Probably will vote CA or fitz as

some of the recent things I see are making me think xite is town, albiet a little bit crazy town in reasoning here.

Will try and get up a case/vote on them by tomorrow, as I will have no access this weekend due to having to help a professor in the field.

208 I meant Korashk if I'm recalling the post. The way he replaced out was just odd.
218 I should have put information in "". I said that because I was getting tired of sorting through the same case over and over again, where there were extremely biased observations being thrown back and forth. By this I meant the whold Prana/CA/LmL thing
221 There were a lot of things that could have gone wrong, but I figured I would be able to figure things out as I went along
Bolded.

[Xite91]

1) See Above. What can I say? I'm becoming a master of early-tells
2) Ok, and? See above, also, see 1
Youre gonna hafta explain that bit after the quote, I'm confus
a) See 2
b) Not really, if things changed, my view would change, and I'd go from there, that's what you're supposed to do in this game, IIRC
3) Because of the way he's doing it? I like to call it an informed gut reaction

1. "Sigh" Will thou share your great wisdom with us?
Quote - Not sure why you're confused, look at this scenario,

Lat - Xites scum! He's got to be! Look at the way he knew Nexus was town from 3 posts and his behavior is pretty much a scum slip (Aka like when scum talks about a townie without saying the words if or maybe signaling they know for sure what role someone has).

Xite - Nah man, I didn't really know that, here's a good to honest quote showing that at some points in the game I doubted Nexus's towniness because I really don't know if he's town for sure.

Once you do so my whole case is null.

3. Not liking how you refuse to explain.

1) But IIRC I said pretty sure the whole time, meaning I didn't know for sure, it was just a strong gut feeling. So does that mean your case is already null?
3) It's not something I can explain. It's just a gut feeling based on what I've seen from other noobs. Wording, amount of posts, and content of posts have very little to do with it, its the feel of the post that makes me think he's town.

Hafingfitz and CA need to read the thread, especially modposts

If this is directed at the "must post 48 hours to be considered active" in reference to the Korashk slot . . . Battousai posted that Korashk requested replacement, implying it was voluntary, not due to inactivity.

Wrong modposts.
I meant replacement announcements, mostly.

[Xite91]

Nope, but it also doesn't change the alignment of the playerslot.

[Xite91]

Sorry guys, just got some awful news and decided to spend some time to myself, things could be hectic, but I'll try my best to posts every day or so.

Okay, so;

@Lat - No slip, just a strong gut feeling. I'm done arguing with you about this now as it's just a "I don't believe you," "Well that's how it is," fight at this point

HF is looking scummier by the day...

@LmL - I didn't know what a mountainous game was until I wiki'd it. Also, I actually read through all of the flavor/rules and such
The alt question was probably for metagaming.
Can I have your tl;dr points? Because I can't tell what you're saying is scummy and what you're just saying.
This looks like a sad excuse to jump on a wagon with suspicions on it from all angles

[Xite91]

@Xite...how am I looking scummier by the day?

Read your posts as if they're not yours, then you might understand.

Whoo-hoo another noob I get to mess with!!!

I didn't like how havingfitz played along with iamausername's claim thingy early in the game.
I like the posts by Leech and Loud Mouth Lee.
havingfitz voted for me.

unvote, vote: havingfitz

Interesting...

Unvote, Vote Wendy

btw, I did read this game, but my eyes glazed over by page 7. I understand that I am supposed to post about once a day.

he wrote

I have never even heard of mountainous games or knew they meant something with respect to the type of game set up. I just thought it was the mod's name for the game.

when way earlier he wrote

VOTE: iamausername for rolefishing.

Seriously...did you expect any town PRs to reveal themselves? Though I do support scum claims. You first?

IDK about this.

seems fishy.

How does that seem fishy? They actually

support

each other as posts.

[Xite91]

Fair enough, but first, why the huge post when you could have simply added the last quote and what you said instead of that huge post. (Makes it easier on the eyes)
Second, maybe he just didn't think about it? Yes, he seems scummy, but not based off of a null tell. A townie could have just as easily made that mistake

[Xite91]

Second, maybe he just didn't think about it? Yes, he seems scummy, but not based off of a null tell.

could this be an example of "buddying up"?
you're making a general excuse for him.
by "maybe he just didn't think about it" you mean that he didn't think about what, exactly?

"he seems scummy, but not based off of a null tell"
makes very little sense to me. please elaborate on "he seems scummy, but not based off of a null tell" i don't understand

No, it's not buddying up, it's trying to correct the mistakes of an obvnoob.
Maybe he didn't stop to think why he was making a big deal out of things, I've done that as town and as scum. Both are able to do it, and it's really not a scumtell, it's a nulltell. Do ya get it now?

By the way, this isn't an insult (I'd be much more harsh if it was) but is english your first language? I'm just curious

[Xite91]

nah, I think that it is a rather clear example of buddying up.

Aside from me....once you have finished catching up, what other player or two are you suspicious of?

a certain person that has said that you were scummy more than a couple times without voting for you.

Nah, it really isn't. I was just trying to tell you, in a nice-ish way, that you're an idiot.

Oh, did you mean me?
Did you want an actual reason to find him scummy? Cuz I'll give you one, just not one based off of a null tell.
I'm not voting for him because I would like to keep discussion going as long as it's good, and me voting him would just make the day end just that much faster, plus I was more interested in Lat at the time (although Fitz still looks like scum and I wouldn't mind ====[ ] him, but I'm waiting for discussion to die down and him to be at L-1). I'm not voting him now because I'm more interested in you, in the

non

creepiest way possible

[Xite91]

By the way, this isn't an insult (I'd be much more harsh if it was) but is english your first language? I'm just curious

calling me a noob and ovnoob was insulting. now you are just trolling for information to discredit me, either language barrier or grammar or something. too transparent, sorry.

Nah, it really isn't. I was just trying to tell you, in a nice-ish way, that you're an idiot.

is totally insulting. do people where you live not defend personal honor. keyboard cowards annoy me.

do you attempt to undermine me to defend h.fitz?

I'm not voting him now because I'm more interested in you,

b.s. I'm brand new here. you've been calling him scummy for pages.

Yes, those were insults, that question was genuine curiosity, and I wasn't planning on and I swear to you that I will not use the answer for any case made against you in this game, and if anyone else does, I will instantly jump their shit

I'm not a keyboard coward, ask anyone that knows me, I'm this confrontational IRL as well. (You can send a PM to Kmd, he knows me IRL ) And hey, I was

trying

to be at least somewhat nice.

I was calling you scummy for jumping onto the guy with the most suspicion using a null tell. That

is

scummy

[Xite91]

EBWOP
I am honored, though, that you would put a quote of mine in your sig

[Xite91]

Hi lat, mind telling me why you voted for me?

Yes, those were insults,

FU2 buddy ;P

that question was genuine curiosity, and I wasn't planning on and I swear to you that I will not use the answer for any case made against you in this game, and if anyone else does, I will instantly jump their shit

if it can't be a part of a case, than it is not game relevant, no? dropping it like bad habit.

I was calling you scummy for jumping onto the guy with the most suspicion using a null tell. That

is

scummy

I also benefit from reading game knowing dalt's role PM. Hence my OMGUS vote on h.fitz.

I am honored, though, that you would put a quote of mine in your sig

sunlight is the best disinfectant

Bolded. Hmmm... simplest form of buddying up.
Partly game relevant (because it means there might be things you just don't understand, also, I'm less likely to insult you )
Mostly though, I was just curious which language was your first?
Uhm, everyone benefits from reading the game? Is that supposed to be a breadcrumb?
I'm not sure disinfectant is the right word

Anyways, you're really jumpy... Why is that?

(You can send a PM to Kmd, he knows me IRL )

This is against rules! Would get me killed! WTF, no tricks!

It's not against the rules to talk to other people about other people, as long as it doesn't directly involve the game
IE) Hey, XXXX said YYYY, what do you think about that? <---- That would be against the rules
But
IE) Hey, what's XXXX like in person? <------ Has nothing to do with the game, so it's not against the rules.
But here,

Mod, Would it be against the rules for Wendy to ask someone I know in person how I am in person?

Just in case.
Again, though with the jumpy overcautiousness.

@Whoever asked, I didn't say anything because I figured it would be obvious. This one wasn't one of my tricks (but I'm glad you're prepared for them now ;P ).
Fitz is scummy because of his LAL attack on Dalt, and the fact that he won't drop it, or wouldn't drop it until he realized that he'd lost the rest of the players' (respect, interest, something like that? Can't find the right word). Then he changed to another person, Llama, for Korashks play. It was just really scummy to me.

@Whoever asked the Lat/CA question
I find Wendy to be more scummy at the moment... Duh?

Preview Edit, Damn Ninja, I'll respond to you next

[Xite91]

So, you're not voting for HF because you want to keep discussion going? Am I silly for assuming that you weren't voting for HF because you feel that Lat is more suspicious? Your vote is on him afterall. What you've just said is that if the conversation were to stop now, you'd vote for HF. Let's actually think about that for a second. If conversation stopped, nothing else would be added to the conversation, right? You just said that if conversation stopped you would vote for HF, without anything else being added to cause that. So, why is your vote still on Lat?

With the last two bolds you just said that you are going to be a hammer vote. Why does he have to be at L-1 before you vote for him? If the event you described were to take place, it would be easy for you to justify that hammer because there was no duscussion. You could claim it was better than a no-lynch, or that the game was dead and you wanted to progress it. I cannot think of a single pro-town reason to withhold a vote for the reason you just stated. This is easily the scummiest post that I've seen in this game so far.

Lat is scummy, but IIRC I called them being the scumteam. I think Lat IS scummier than him, but if Fitz gets to L-1 then it's partially obvious that Lat will not be the lynch of the day, right? Not to mention, I just like to put the hammer on people. It's the most fun position on a wagon, except for the person that started it, that's where it's really at.
Also, it's not scummy because I am claiming the hammer vote before it happens, therefore I can't just say, oh, it was because it was better than a no-lynch, or that the game was dead.
If the game was dead, I'd find something more amusing to do than hammer someone... Maybe get on a table and dance the Cha-Cha (by myself no less), or maybe pick on newbies more, or come up with another fun shenanigan against someone, or maybe, just for the sake of this game claim a PR.
I don't hammer a person to get a game going, it's a stupid thing to do IMO

[Xite91]

Sorry, can't give you proof, all my games on here are ongoing, and I mostly play IRL otherwise.
But I will prove that I will hammer as long as someone doesn't beat me to it if that's what you mean?

Oh, and you seem to be looking for reasons to pair more than one person up to Fitz, when, ironically, you know there's only two scum present... Just something to consider

[Xite91]

OK, that's way more of a stretch than the first quote. So you think that fitz not only knew the setup, but also realised what I was trying to achieve with my gambit and deliberately acted ignorant to shut it down? No offense to him, but I just don't think there's any basis to believe that he's sharp enough for that.

trying to rationalize gut is a tricky business. Was he looking out for his partner?[/quote]

That

remind me, why was LAL enforcement a reason to try to lynch dalt but not a reason to lynch Nexus? Was it because your scum buddy was voting for Nexus and you didn't want to be on the same wagon?

Aside from me....once you have finished catching up, what other player or two are you suspicious of?

a certain person that has said that you were scummy more than a couple times without voting for you.

You didn't specify in the first paragraph
I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only person that did that

Therefore, this could be an easy out for you to attack other player that were either on the Nexus wagon, or anyone that hadn't voted Fitz, but made it clear they were suspicious of him.
By the way, wouldn't he have jumped on the nexus wagon when he changed his vote if that were the case? I was off by then, or

were

you talking about someone else?

Your Me/Fitz case

---

Also this struck me as odd

need to read more carefully, will do so with these in front of me.

You seem to have a pretty "clear" read on me and Fitz without having read that carefully... hmmm

Preview edit;
It does, but mistakes are mistakes, and honestly I don't see him "knowing the setup" being at all likely.
Like said, I didn't think mountainous mafia was hinting at roles, but I actually read opening posts, a lot of people don't, though, because most of them say about the same thing

[Xite91]

8 - iamausername calls for massclaim. Gives order for massclaim, claiming that random.org gave order. No proof of randomness given.
9 – Prana (first to claim on iamausername’s massclaim list) states that iamausername post was not a serious post. Does not claim. No evidence that he understood the setup from first post.
13 – LML demonstrates that he does understand first post game setup, but gives explaination that would prevent a possible scumpartner from falling for iamausername’s gambit. SCUMTELL
22 – h.fitz demonstrates ignorance of setup, and understanding of LML’s prior two posts (I didn’t retain this during my intitial read). Accuses iamauser of rolefishing.
23 – Xite gives h.fitz ready made defense of “Do you even read mod-posts?”
24 – h.fitz does not deny reading mod post, glibly states “Apparently as well as iamausername ” so that his error will be associated with iamausername’s alleged failure to read the mod post.

First, how do you feel about everything that's gone on? This whole post seems to be IIoA
8 - How do you prove randomness?
9 - How is there no evidence there? Isn't he the one that said that he got a good laugh out of it? That's what I would have said if I

did

realize what he was doing at the time.
13 - I thought that LmL was the guy you had the huge towntell for? Isn't that why you agreed with everything he said?
22 - Huh? (between the comma and the parenthesis)
23 - What do you mean "ready made?"
24 - I'm pretty sure that was him making a joke, not him trying to discredit Username

Danmit, again, will respond to leech after this commercial break

[Xite91]

1) First off maybe you should keep track of what you say so you don't have to repeatedly state "if I recall correctly" about a statements you may, or may not have, made in the game. After reading you in ISO, I can't find a place where you said they were a scum team, but I may have overlooked it. Would you mind finding a quote? Also, that segment is doing nothing other than pre-emptively dismissing yourself from a potential mislynch, I do not like that one bit.

2) You've already given yourself the "The game was dead" out. I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't claim that, considering you already set yourself up for it. "I couldn't do" comments mean nothing, especially when you are already doing it.

3) So if the game was dead you'd take it upon yourself to be a distraction, add nothing game related, harrass newbies, and do absolutely nothing to get the game back on track?

4) Except, you already said you would if HF was L-1 and discussion died down. Who's keeping track, though? Clearly you aren't:

5) You can't even remember who asked you questions, or the things you've said in this game (all of your IIRC comments) so why should we take anything you say seriously, considering? A lot of what you say is based on whether or not you recall something correctly. Why don't you just look it up for yourself before posting? I really don't think it matters to you what you are posting, as long as you are posting.

1) I'm busy lately, also I just replaced into a 30+ page game, so I don't have a lot of time to post on this one, and do you really want all of my RL excuses to forget if I actually posted something? Not to mention, there have been a few times when I would start a post, then give up on it because it's a bunch of useless info with maybe a line of non-useless info. I don't really have enough giveadamn to actually go find where I said it, and if I didn't call it then, fine I'm calling it now. Either way, I have been saying he was scummy, just never gave reasoning because I figured it was pointless to point out obvious things.

2) Or maybe I was trying to say that I would wait until we ran out of things to talk about so that town could go into D2 with the most info possible? Just maybe.

3) Wow, nice misrep. I lol'd a bit. No I was exaggerating, dumbass. I would probably harass newbies, though, cuz it's a good way to get a game back on track, but I would probably do something so scummy everyone would jump on me so I could gage reactions, thus keeping the game going.

4) See 2

5) Or, maybe I'm lazy? Also, see 1

Preview edit:
Responding to Prana next

[Xite91]

1) It's nice to know that a player in this game doesn't give enough of a damn to actually see if they are being consistent. In fact, I believe I said just that previously.

2) Why are you ignoring the fact that you are saying you will hammer someone, while keeping your vote on someone else? You are clearly stating that you will hammer HF under the right condition, while voting for Lat. That doesn't seem right, at all. You won't vote for HF right now, but you will hammer if he's L-1?

3) I know you were exaggerating, but the fact you were doing so is actually validating my point. Anything that is not game related, is a distraction. You are intentionally being distracting. Also, you said if the game died you'd intentionally do something scummy to get heat on yourself. If you are town, you would intentionally be scummy to draw attention onto the one person you actually know, for a fact, is town.

4) Or maybe, I'm right. You've admit yourself that you don't care enough to even check to see whether or not you've said something.

Being consistent and avoiding contradicting yourself is pretty key to being a townie.

You simply don't seem to care about that. You are, however, wording things in ways to give you easy outs if called on it though. That is scummy.

5) Xite was the one that immediately corrected HF, not Prana.

1) Ironically, since i am town, I'm not worried about being consistent because I figure my thought process should be pretty consistent without me having to check on it all the time. If I was scum I might go back to check on those things to make sure my posts weren't seen as scummy because of inconsistencies. Just sayin.

2) Maybe YOU should reread the game. I'm voting Wendy. And I keep my vote on who seems scummiest, but if I truly believe that someone else is also scummy AND are at L-1, I will ===[ ]

3) Would it keep the game going? If I got lynched and flipped town would people look more closely to my wagon? Those are two good reasons why that would work. Besides, I like playing VI

4) It's also key to being scum. And I'm not trying to give myself easy outs, I just know that I am human, and therefore fallible.

5) Because the gambit wasn't gonna work IMO and what he did seemed like a null tell to me

[Xite91]

1) Lolwut?
2) Just pointing out that you failed to realize that I was voting someone else.
3) That, my good sir, depends on how well I played and the people left playing after me.
4) I thought I had said it, hence my saying it now, so that you have it if I do contradict myself.
5) I was attempting to clear my good name, since you seem so hellbent on sullying it.

[Xite91]

Lat is scummy, but IIRC I called them being the scumteam.

What? No you didn't. How could you even make a mistake in thinking you did? I consider calling scum teams to be very important, there was one point in the game I even asked you who my scum partner would be if I was scum. I would have thought that if you would have figured it out you would have bothered to tell all of us. It's starting to look like you're just making stuff up as you go along, not caring wether the town finds scum or not. If we're both scum why don't you go ahead and make a nice case, you realize when you find scum you should get them lynched right, and convince everyone else to get them lynched?

1) Ironically, since i am town, I'm not worried about being consistent because I figure my thought process should be pretty consistent without me having to check on it all the time. If I was scum I might go back to check on those things to make sure my posts weren't seen as scummy because of inconsistencies. Just sayin.

Great, now scum no longer have to make sure they're being consistent because townies don't have to worry about being consistent by your logic.

By "correct", I meant "prove to me," but eh, honestly, this whole Dalt Did/Didn't lie argument is making me hate this game and reading it so much. Honestly, the only thing it's doing other than diluting the tread more, is making my second idea for scum stronger and stronger.

FoS: Havingfitz

I guess I didn't call them as a scumteam, just voted one and FoS'd the other, but honestly, how short is that of actually calling them a scumteam?
Either way, I made a mistake and apologize.

The other thing is that what I meant is that townies should for the most part be able to be consistent without having to check back on what they've said because they feel stronger about it. Scum would be more likely to have to go back and check on what they said all time, but that's just IMO, and I'm not even sure I worded it in a way you could understand /shrug

[Xite91]

2 questions for everyone that didn't replace in:
at which post number in the thread did you understand that this setup was open, with 2 vanilla scum and 10 vanilla town?

at which post number in the thread did you understand that the goal of iamausername's post at post #8 was to catch scum claiming power roles?

What is the point of this?
I mean, aside from clogging the thread?
I see no benefits in these questions being answered by anyone because there is no way this can help us figure out who's town or scum, because anything coming off of this info would be a null tell IMHO

[Xite91]

1) I think it's funny the people who did not support my suspicions towards dalt who are now getting hammered by his replacement and beginning to finally suspect that player slot.

2) To those getting suspicious of tw...does that change the way you view dalt's play?

3) Prana is coming off a bit suspicious under the pressure. Very defensive and I like the way he lays the groundwork for a defensive vote on tw with his "Note" in post 354 regarding his suspicions of dalt. Too funny.

4) LML case on me is crap and I'm not caring for his game iirc. I need to look at him closer. My suspicions for scum right now are focused on tw, llama, LML, and CA or Prana (though definitely not a CA-llama combo or a prana-tw combo).

1) Or it's likely that you were bussing Dalt so you could coast the rest of the game, seeings how you pushed so hard on him.
2) Nope, but the way I view your play? A little bit
3) Show where he gets defensive enough for it to actually be a tell plox
4) OMG Lat, IIRC!!!

[Xite91]

Damn EBWOP

I need to reread and post something of merit, but I'd like to make one comment, which I'm sure will get me tons of FoS's, but it's what I'm thinking....

It's becoming completely evident to me that people are citing "Gambits" as way of describing behavior that could be seen as scummy.

So far, it's PranaDevil, Nexus, CA, Xite, and more!

That's actually a good point to bring up, why would you get FoS'd for it?
But mine was a true gambit that I very much enjoy pulling, not sure how it could be seen as scummy, but if you tell me how, I'll take it.

[Xite91]

I guess I didn't call them as a scumteam, just voted one and FoS'd the other, but honestly, how short is that of actually calling them a scumteam?

6) I consider it the difference between night and day, actually. Just because you FOS a person while voting another doesn't translate to your thinking they are a scumteam. Suggesting such is an incredible stretch.

The other thing is that what I meant is that townies should for the most part be able to be consistent without having to check back on what they've said because they feel stronger about it.

7) Considering you haven't been consistent, what does that say about you, by your own logic? I won't push that very far, because you are entirely wrong on the subject. In every game I do my best to check whether or not I've actually said something, or if it was just a thought at the time. Considering I do have suspicions and thoughts that I don't post, it makes it easy for the scum to call a claim I make in the game that I haven't posted. Checking to see if you've actually posted something, instead of it being a thought you've had is not a scum tell.

2) Okay, misunderstood, that's not dismissing the point without defending it, it's just not getting the point. So what was the point again?
3) I've seen some pretty good excuses to act scummy, as this is more a theory based discussion, I suggest we drop it, unless it actually has something to do with a case against me?
4) Nope, just means I have enough time to read through the new posts and post my thoughts on it based on that, considering IRL things and how many games I managed to get myself into at once (somehow o.o) Either way, my schedule should be slowing down soon (this weekend-ish), so I'll give my ideas in the whole game then, k?
5)

Xite was the one that immediately corrected HF, not Prana.

At the time, Wendy was going after prana for this, so it seemed like you were trying to sway a noobs vote towards me. I was defending what I did to Wendy, not you
6) Again, just a difference in play
7) See 6, and I have been pretty consistent, just missing a few small things here and there. If you believe otherwise, point out all my inconsistencies other than "I called them as a scumteam"

please cooperate. can't catch scum if I state goal of questioning prior to receiving answers.

I don't see the point in it, it looks like a way to "trap" players with something I've already said was a null tell. It's just another way of pushing a lynch without any real info, which makes you look even scummier, speaking of which

k.

vote:tomorrow wendy

WTF?

nevermind, nolynch is better.

unvote, vote:nolynch

[Xite91]

i'm not scum with h.fitz. I never switched suspicion to LML. Mafia is dumb on this site.

This post next to

TW's play is really crap. I had a long post ready to go and was going to vote her...but her wagon is getting full way too fast.

I'm about to hit the hay and I think given her posts over the last few minutes...a night to let things cool down would be good (at least for me). If she is still around tomorrow I'll consider voting her but I need to think about it.

LML is coming across very scummy IMO though for his weak ass case on me and setting up a wagon for me tomorrow regardless of how tw flips.

Makes me know these two are scum together
Here is me, calling Fitz and Wendy as a scumteam


@ Leech

4) Fair enough, for the sake of you in this game, I will try to at least look things up a little no promises, though, depending on schedule
5) Not on the same level as voting, thanks for the misrep. The same level as calling them as a team (as in maybe same level in voting that person the next day? I guess that

could

fall under your point)

@Wendy, since I'm not really big on meta and I've never seen Adel play, that didn't do much for me (or your cause)
Also, why the pic? trying to make more sense of it, but I just don't know

[Xite91]

@Leech
5) Yeah, I was trying to see where you were going with it, but figured that it would only work in a skewed way (AKA, if the vote was for the next day etc.) It was a misrep, because I wasn't really putting them both on the same level, I was saying that it's close to saying they're a scumteam.
Yeah, I see your point with the Alt thing, but still, it seemed like an odd form of AtE or something...

Now, the case on Xite:

1) First of all (I think LF brought this up), in the post with Xite's random vote, (s)he FoS's two players for a semi-legitimate reason, at least for that early in the game. Having any kind of a reason is certainly better than an entirely random vote, so I don't like that neither one received the vote. Seems to me like (s)he does not want to choose between the two that early, making it easier to choose which to vote after (s)he can see which one (s)he can make a better case on. If town, I would expect the player to vote whichever one they suspected more, or to just choose one if suspecting them equally at the time.

2) Then we get to Iso post 4, the start of the claimed "gambit". Xite says that a post is scummy without giving any info on why, and challenges other players to build a case on Nexus instead, which would clear Xite of responsibility for that case since (s)he did not create it. Then when that fails Xite goes to plan B, which summarized is "Attack a (believed) town player with the goal of having them make themselves look scummy and hope other players hop on the wagon (to be attacked for it later)." This is exactly what scum would want to occur, so that they can get a believable mislynch and advance closer to their win condition.

3) Xite Iso post 20:

2) LmL posted his "roleclaim" as Vanilla Townie. Did he realise it was a joke?

2) I don't think it was a joke. It's actually a good way to catch clueless scum in a game like this.

If you thought it was a good way to catch clueless scum, then why did you make the setup obvious by mentioning the mod's posts, effectively killing the gambit? This is not a pro-town thing to do.

Other somewhat weaker points that do not indicate a pro-town mindset:

4) Many times uses no reasoning other than gut or sweeping generalities to explain away actions, rather than any kind of logical evidence or examples. (mentioned by either Lat or Leetch I believe)

5) The false advice offered to nexus in Iso post 17:

How about this, make your own case on someone no one else has made a case one

that you think is scummy

and try to push the lynch. If you do this (well), it will greatly decrease my suspicion on you

6) Calling out 2 (possibly 3, I cant remember) different people for mentioning Xite because (s)he called them scummy before that.

7) Iso posts 23 & 39 mention clogging the thread, yet Xite did the same thing with commie when he was in the game.

8) @Xite: What do you see to be the difference between LmL in your Iso post 23 and Lat in your Iso post 33?

1) So, because I notice something, I have to skip out on RVS? Besides, I saw that they could be distancing, but it wasn't that huge of a tell to me TBH, info said yes, gut said no, and if you haven't noticed, I decided to follow my gut this game.

2) Explained my gambit already, but here's the long and short of it for those that miss things;
I felt that Nexus was town
I wanted to see if anyone would jump to try and rationalize what I saw (usually a scumtell IMO)
When they didn't, i decided to keep up with it and make a case out of little things
People hopped on the case
I decided Lat was the scummiest of the people that jumped on.
I voted lat and explained my alt.

3) Because by then it wasn't going to work, too many people had hinted at it.

4) Because I'm trying to play this game off of gut, and whenever I actually use evidence in a case it gets lost in the many other posts being posted, people pay more attention to what you say when they see it as "slightly anti-town" and for some reason gut reads fall under that

5) Nope, that was real advice to help a noob (trying to get him to learn to rely on his on thoughts instead of everyone else's), just worded in a way that seemed like I had suspicions on him

6) Wha?

7) That was early game/RVS and what, 1, 2 posts? When I get mad at people for thread-clogging, it's because theyre beating a dead horse, or doing things like LmL's rant mid-game

8) Aside from the pretty different things I said about them? What are you trying to get at here?

FWIW nolynch today is optimal for town. at some point we will have to get of of evens (NL @ 4 alive with 1 scum remain is really rough for town, and each day we wait until then yields a slight loss of expected win %)

Also, why the pic? trying to make more sense of it, but I just don't know

the numbers down the left side are the numbers for each post where a vote was made. the row of the top is each of the players, and the column under each name is who they voted for, and how many votes were on the wagon. the column on the right is the page number where each vote occurred.

I agree, but not for D1, not EVER for D1
Okay... sure?

I'm adding something to what Nightwolf said.

2) I don't think it was a joke. It's actually a good way to catch clueless scum in a game like this.

I am assuming you're talking about Iau's gamit? Then why this?

5) Because the gambit wasn't gonna work IMO and what he did seemed like a null tell to me

You don't get the newbs get out of inconsistency card like Nexus does.

I think he asked pretty much the same thing, and already answered.

[Xite91]

It was a misrep, because I wasn't really putting them both on the same level, I was saying that it's close to saying they're a scumteam.

1) You can't have it both ways. You just, literally, said that they were on the same level if they were both wagons on different days. That puts them at the same, exact, level. And it's still not even close to calling two people a scumteam. My vote is on Wendy, if I FoS'd you that is not a declaration that I think you are, specifically, a scum team with TW. FoS is merely statement to all that you find a player suspicious. What you are, now, doing is trying to force things you've said earlier (the ones you can actually remember, anyway) into being something that it wasn't at the time, in order to make up for your horrid

consistensy

.

2) So, what you're saying is you thought it was a good idea to catch scum until...you ruined it?

1) First off, bolded.... what???
Second, go back and reread that WITHOUT having the huge bias on me that you do, plox.
You're looking for inconsistencies (or... consistencies??) and miswording what I say.
They weren't on the same level because I was voting one of them, and FoSing the other, but it's CLOSE to calling them a scumteam.
I admitted that I did not call them as a scumteam until after I realized I hadn't so why are you dragging it on exactly?
Is it because you think I'm scum? Wait you couldn't because... You're not even voting me... in fact you're voting on the person that I've been pushing? WTF?

[Xite91]

9) *facepalm* He had been voting you for a while and only switched recently after wendy appeared to have given up and self-voted. That much is obvious if you've been keeping up with the game.

@Nightwolf
1) So I should deprive myself from RVS because of something I noticed I can easily go to if I feel stronger about it later? Also, did you forget that I was making a fake case on him?
2) I wanted to see the way that people jumped on him, as that is often a big indicator of who is scum.
4) I do use mostly gut, yes, but for your sakes I have been providing information on the people I find scummy. Go back and read me, you'll see points on Lat, Fit, and Wendy, they just aren't all bundled up in one post like I'm sure you would like.
5) I wanted to teach a noob how to make a case, that was the best way I saw how, follow the leader only teaches you how to follow, but being the leader teaches you how to lead, if you understand what I mean. And if it was a poor case, it would have been discarded, and the suspicion would have been on me, who I'm pretty sure would have a bit better chance defending myself then he would have.
6) o...k?
7) Okay, OMFG she's checking the thread.
Posts about one of their gambit that I could find (there could be more, was only skimming);
CA - 10
LmL - 3 + random rant (sorry LmL, that I got you involved in this, guess you were just caught in the crossfire)
Prana - 10
Mine about Commie -3, 2 of which were in posts with actual cases (I usually do this when I joke about something, makes it more fun, at least for me)
Satisfied?
8) That point on LmL was to make my "suspicion" on Nexus seem more real (because he appeared to be "defending his buddy"), and Lat seemed to be pushing for a lynch on a townie that already had a good amount of votes on them.
9) I have, it was just odd to me.

@Leech

2) Where exactly have I done this?
3)

The same level as calling them as a team (as in maybe

same level in voting that person the next day?

I guess that could fall under your point)

Right there you agreed with me that you were claiming them to be on the same level, all the while trying to disagree. You even admit that it would fall under my point while calling my post a misrep, which by your own admission isn't. The fact is, what you are claiming is so absurd that you couldn't possibly have believed that at the time of your FoS. This only leaves the possibility that now that you've been called on it, you are trying to change past events to fit your current story.

4) You are trying to claim that your FoS was "almost" calling them a scumteam, which is absolutely absurd.

Is it because you think I'm scum? Wait you couldn't because... You're not even voting me... in fact you're voting on the person that I've been pushing? WTF?

5) I am extremely suspicious of you, and I believe you could be scum. I don't have to vote for you to suspect for you. You should realize that I was voting for you until Wendy went in self-destruct extremely scummy mode. As scummy as you are, I don't think you are the best lynch at the moment. Though if its any consolation, it is getting to that point. What you are claiming is so absurd that it's getting hard to find possible town motivations for your actions.

I also fail to see the relevance in the last part of that comment. You're acting like just because you are pushing Wendy that I should automatically assume you're innocent? Hardly. With Dalt's complete lack of participation and Wendy's performance in this game, you could be bussing a partner. I'm not calling you a scumteam, but it is a possibility that I have considered. (Notice how I called it a consideration, and not something I posted in thread? That's because I know the difference.) Just because we may share votes at the moment, does not mean that I wouldn't think you're scummy. It's ridiculous to insinuate otherwise. It is entirely ridiculous to use the fact that I'm voting for Wendy, someone you're "pushing", as a defense as well.

1) Considering it was spelled "consistencies" and not "inconsistencies" it was a pretty big typo.
2) If you put the two quotes together, you'll get the whole meaning of it. You're "Interpreting" what I'm saying wrong because you think I'm scum.
3) Here's one of them, the parenthesis was me trying to understand your reasoning for what you were saying, not my thought process, but my trying to understand yours.
4) I was explaining my reasoning for thinking that I said they were a scumteam. I realized I hadn't called it out, instead just FoS'd Fitz, but I was saying that to me, in that situation, it was almost the same thing.
5) Like I said before, just seemed odd, partially because you were voting her and not contributing much to pushing her lynch, while pushing me like crazy when you're not even voting for me.

xite, why did you bail off of the Nexus wagon and vote for Lateralus on page 10?

It seems odd to me that you would be happy riding on the Nexus wagon at 4 votes, and then switch to someone else who was on the Nexus wagon.

Read the thread and you might find out. It's only been said, argued about, beaten into the ground, and then argued about again.

[Xite91]

Sorry Xite but it was too long for me. Could you be a dear and summarize it for me?

If there were jesters in this game you would be my suspect.
Just read it.

[Xite91]

my assessment: nolynch is optimal, followed by h.fitz lynch, followed by xite lynch.


I am a baller

My assessment: You are scum, bussing your partner and setting up a townie mislynch when Fitz flips scum.

[Xite91]

@Everyone - What is your opinion on no lynch today after hearing the arguement from TW?

Still don't agree with it on D1
We can get more info from it later on, also we can at least try to get scum tonight

1) So I should deprive myself from RVS because of something I noticed I can easily go to if I feel stronger about it later? Also, did you forget that I was making a fake case on him?

Does this mean you were trying to make RVS longer?

2)

my assessment: nolynch is optimal, followed by h.fitz lynch, followed by xite lynch.


I am a baller

My assessment: You are scum, bussing your partner and setting up a townie mislynch when Fitz flips scum.

This doesn't make sense by your reasoning Xite. You believe Wendy is bussing fitz right? So if wendy is lynched and he turns up scum, then you lynch fitz because you're saying tommorow wendy was bussing fitz how will that be a mislynch when you're saying he'll turn up scum?

1) It was my first post, and it was in the middle of page 1, is this too long for you?

2) Try it this way, maybe it will make sense to you

my assessment: nolynch is optimal,
followed by h.fitz lynch,
followed by xite lynch.

My assessment: You are scum,
bussing your partner
and setting up a townie mislynch when Fitz flips scum.

Get it now?

[Xite91]

I understand how your analysis works, what do you make of it though? As in who is playing to common scum voting patterns or anything like that, or is it just a WIP that is useful later?

I need two flips to make any real progress.

Of course you do

@Everyone - What is your opinion on no lynch today after hearing the arguement from TW?

We're not no lynching.

QFT

Sorry I misunderstood you. You are saying the lynch on yourself is a mis lynch right?

*facepalm* yes

I don't think you got the point of what I was saying, you thought Iau's gambit was a good way to catch scum when it was easy for you to think so yet when questioned you believe that it wouldn't have worked? You're twisted things around when it fits your needs.

Nope. By then it was already not going to work.

This post looks a lot like buddying.

@IAU

Would you like to come back to the game? We'd like to have your opinion on what's going on.

again. QFT.

[Xite91]

Like I said before, just seemed odd, partially because you were voting her and not contributing much to pushing her lynch, while pushing me like crazy when you're not even voting for me.

5) When you leave out the fact that I was voting for you immediately before Wendy's extremely scummy self-destruct mode, then you would have a point. Again, that point would involve you blatantly discarding the facts of the situation. I'm not contributing much to pushing her lynch, at this exact moment in time because I'm thinking about it. Get that, people sometimes think about things before they make a post on it. The fact that Wendy is an alt of a non-newbie player does change the situation. The main question, obviously, being why was Adel playing so horribly, when (s)he is obviously experienced? I'm not sure what to make of it at the moment, but it doesn't erase the blatantly scummy activities prior to that alt reveal. I'm not going to put my vote back on you, when Wendy's scummy actions still surpass those of your own. I'm not going to ignore your scummy actions, just because I'm voting Wendy, either. Why does it feel like this is the second time you've insinuated that I should?

We can get more info from it later on, also we can at least try to get scum

tonight

6) Why did you write "tonight" when the town has no PR's? The town can do nothing at night. Shouldn't that say "today"?

@Everyone - What is your opinion on no lynch today after hearing the arguement from TW?

7) You mean the alt that is intentionally playing a terrible game, even after (s)he is exposed as a non-newbie? Why would I take anything she is saying seriously when she's deliberately making bad plays? Why wouldn't I consider her argument on this matter another, intentionally bad play? Considering I've already stated my reasons on why I disagree with it, I don't see why a player that is trying to play horribly would sway me in any way.

Nope. By then it was already not going to work.

8) You keep saying this when it was YOU that ruined the gambit. How can you seriously claim that you believed it was a good way to catch scum, when it was your post that made the gambit worthless? Every time you say that you are actually saying "It was a good way to catch scum, until my post made it impossible for IAU to follow up the one reaction he could have."

On a different note I looked at the first ever Mountainous game, and the one person that did not read the rules at the start of the game was scum. Looking at that does add significant merit to IAU's play. In fact, I'm wondering if he knew about that before he made the suggestion. Everyone saying that town would be more likely to make that mistake, should definitely give the first page of that thread a good read. I'm wondering how many people actually investigated this type of game before it started.

@Leech
1) Okay, so a difference in the way we speak. I would say horrid inconsistencies, you would say horrid consistencies. My bad
2) We could, but I'd prefer not to do a "no you're wrong" argument back and forth, especially when I feel this has gone on way too long and is just becoming a problem for the rest of the town.
3) Again, I can already see this becoming a "no you're wrong" argument. I have what I meant it to be, you skew it to make me look scummy, we move on.
4) See 2 and 3
5) Considering that, with me, I feel like you're just trying real hard to find the scummy in what I do? Yes, I do think you should back off because, like I said, it's just starting to become a problem to the town.
6) are you really trying to use that as a scumtell?
First, it was night while I posted it
+ Second, I was talking to friends while I was writing it
= I mixed up my words a little.
But, since you're going to make this look horribly scummy (as in quite a bit scummy ) what's your take on it, sherlock?
7) Oh, but she is. Go back and reread your point 5. Didn't you say she made you go back and think about it?
8) Was not, IMO other people already had.
Also, I find it really funny that as soon as I call you out on it you start focusing more on Wendy

@Nightwolf
1) I pointed it out. I could have just waited until later to FoS them. Also, I really wanted to vote a commie, ever since I saw him on the signups list I had planned to do it. Who knows when I would have had that chance again?
2) Okay? I already defended it, you keep saying that it's still scummy to you, what do you want me to do?
4) Oh, but you were insinuating it like a mad man. Also, on cases I truly tried to push I added more than just gut.
5) Because I was the one that told him to do it and there would have been more people saying things about my telling him to do so?
7) No, I was implying that I wasn't exactly clogging up the thread, first because mine were simply added into posts that actually added content, second because there were only 3 of them, and third because they clogged the thread WAY more than my RVS stuff.
Also, I agree completely with your no-lynch analysis

"If it could be useful after having two flips, wouldn't it be better to lynch today so that it could be useful tomorrow rather than waiting an extra day and having an extra townie dead before it becomes useful?"
-- if we do that then no-lynch becomes optimal on day 2, and informed scumhunting still doesn't begin until day 3.

If it becomes useful after two flips, doesn't informed scumhunting start after two flips?

[Xite91]

1) First things first: I really hate people using the reasonings "Because of gut." Xite, and Wendy are prime examples of this. Either provide some hard evidence, or don't say anything, because to me it seems like a random vote. I mean, gut probably is a large factor, but there has to have been a post that's set off your gut churning like that, surely? So, show me the posts. (Yes, I realise Leech makes this point too, but I wanted to reiterate it)

2) Another thing: Xite seems to be really good at getting under people's skin-he did with me, and he has with wendy. I'm not sure if he's doing this because its his meta or if he's scum. He is being really distracting, though, which is to me anti-town.

3) That took a long time. I am never going away for five days again.

1) I did add a case to what people I did push, that has been discussed.
2) You - To find scum.
Wendy - Because I think she's scum.
It's my way of catching scum, I apologize if it bugs you, but it's how I play
3) I lol'd

someone asked how to prove that something is random,
so I'll demonstrate.

I will use the lottery drawing at http://www.calottery.com/games/fantasyfive/ as my random number generator
the drawing is in a few hours, so I'll place my vote tomorrow with the result
the game posts five numbers, and I'll use the last of the five
if the last number for the AUG 18 drawing is
even = i'll vote for h.fitz
odd = i'll vote for xite

First - It was me that asked for that, it was because someone asked someone to show proof of randomness.
Second - Why not just vote for who you think is scummier? Didn't you say you would prefer lynching Fitz to me?

[Xite91]

@Xite:
2) So just because you claim something means I have to believe it, and forgive all your actions related to it automatically? I have explained that I have reasons to doubt your claim and as such, I evaluate your actions accordingly. So unless you can show a way that the logic I expressed about the gambit is wrong or at least offer more about what you were thinking at the time that could somehow relate to or modify that logic, I don't see much more to discuss here.
4) I just back and skimed your whole iso, and it appears that your cases on Lat and fitz have no more substance than your (supposably fake) case on Nexus did. Can you summarize what your case against fitz is for me please?
5) Only if you assume beforehand that people would have caught it. If they didn't then they would be attacking him, and they still could potentially have attacked him anyway because he should believe in an case that he puts forward and due to "because (s)he told me to" not being a good excuse. Anyway, since you believed the suspicion would've ended up on you if any came about from it, then you did make that assumption that people would have caught it, meaning that you knew it was there yourself. But if you knew it was there yourself, you wouldn't have wrote it that way (or at least have changed the wording before submitting) because it would have been simple to make the same point without turning good advice into misleading advice.
7) I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say completely because that didn't seem to adress my question at all.

7) By going through and counting up all the posts you could find on the topic, are you implying that

it

should not have been discussed at all?

The bolded it refers to the early wagon gambit claims, if that helps to clarify the question at all.
More in depth explanation: You counted up all the posts you could find from LmL, Prana, and CA on the topic of their gambits/wagons/whatever you want to call them. After you do so, you compare it to the number of your filler comments. By comparing all of their posts on the topic to the number of your own comments that you admit are useless, it would seem that you would have to be weighing all of the posts you counted of theirs as useless as well to make it a fair comparison. Therefore, my question, did you mean to imply/do you believe that those gambit claims did not deserve to be discussed at all?


Other General Comments:

My level of suspicion on wendy has decreased by a fair amount, thanks in part to iau's link. I couldn't put my finger on what felt somewhat off about wendy's play and level of suspicion to me before, but that link does seem to match the feeling I had a bit. Going to go back and look a bit more closely at some of my other suspects, as well as deeper into some of the more recent cases (Leech's and iau's specifically come to mind here, though for different reasons), to see if anyone has passed wendy as my second most suspicious. Also, I am going to make an effort to check in a bit more to keep up with any events that may occur faster as we approach deadline.

2) First, I gave my reasoning, my explanation, everything, what more do you want?
That last sentence - Exactly, we should drop it because this is a point that is being beaten into the ground and will not find any middle-way.
4) They were there, just not all nicely posted in a big case, just points here and there.
I think that Fitz has been bussing Dalt and now wendy (look at how convinced he is that they're scum, then he gets angry when no one listens, so on and so forth, he knows they're scum and feels like he can coast off of that when they flip "See guys, now you know I'm town because I was the one that pushed for their lynch!" I've seen it done plenty of times)
Wendy has been distancing from Fitz (borderline bussing herself)
Since I'm convinced that Wendy is scum, I am even more convinced that they're scum partners.
The only thing that would change my mind is if I had actually played with Adel before and seen if she played smart as scum or not (intentionally distancing/buddying because if she gets lynched it's an easy mislynch D2) but I'm too lazy to meta, so I'm going to assume that what I see is what I get.
5) I see what you're getting at here, and I actually agree now that I'm thinking about it. Still, when I'm pretty sure someone's town, I will defend them if I think they're going to get lynched.
7) I don't think it should have been addressed to the point that it was, 3 maybe 4 posts per player would have sufficed.

EBWOP:

Relatively unrelated to game (at least in my opinion): Could someone tell me how to link to specific posts such as iau did? Just something that seems good to know for situations that would otherwise be tons of quotes such as his post was.

title here

[Xite91]

@Xite...so you suspect me because I have been bussing dalt/tw/Adel. Why in a 2 scum game would meScum bus my lone partner daltScum so hard all day when dalt was not getting any attention (for the most part) from anyone else in the game? I could see bussing someone who was scummy from the get go and garnering the suspcions of others. But why go out of my way to initiate and sustain a case on a partner? When it would have been just as easy to go with the flow on the CA wagon or hop on to a healthy Nexus wagon a bit later once no one agreed with me? Instead I change over to a Korashk wagon upon whom I had named as my #2 suspect (with reasons) before anyone else (other than a ninja'd vote by 5 minutes from CA) had even voted for him?

tl:dr -

anyone accusing me of bussing a lone partner in a two player game...and maintaining that opinion of guilt with their replacement when there have been frequent options to switch elsewhere ...fmpov is sadly mistaken or scum.

1) People had expressed suspicion on Korashk far before you made a case on him. Just because they hadn't voted didn't mean they weren't getting there.
2) You would have done it to do exactly what you're doing now, WIFOM
3) I wouldn't feel this way if you hadn't pushed the way you did on Dalt, then when suspicion on Wendy came about went asked questions that FMPOV was you saying "See, now you're suspicious of that slot"

[Xite91]

I hope to see some more votes on ConfidAnon by that time.

I'm very disappointed in you all.

I lol'd
I don't think CA is the lynch for today. Just sayin.

[Xite91]

But aside from that, I don't see a worthwhile case on Xite. He's done several deliberately provocative things, like the false case on Nexus, or the "I'll hammer anyone at L-1" bit, and he has clearly done these with the full knowledge that this will draw negative attention on himself, and

that is not scummy

.

Whoawhoawhoa!
Where did I say I'll lynch

anyone

that hits L-1?
I don't do that shit unless they're scummy to me.

So yeah, fitz > Xite > wendy. I guess fitz isn't so much a popular choice any more though, looking at that vote count.

Now:

Xite, why don't you want to lynch ConfidAnon?
fitz, why don't you want to lynch ConfidAnon?
wendy, why don't you want to lynch ConfidAnon?
Nexus, why don't you want to lynch ConfidAnon?
Prana, why don't you want to lynch ConfidAnon?
LML, why don't you want to lynch ConfidAnon?
Leech, why don't you want to lynch ConfidAnon?
Nightwolf, why don't you want to lynch ConfidAnon?

...I'm forgetting someone. Oh right, Lat. Why don't you want to lynch ConfidAnon?

I lol'd a little.
Anyways my reason is that I'm in more than one game with him and it seems to be his meta. Why don't you read up on him?

1) I specifically asked LML and CA because I believe that both of them are experienced enough to know that nolynch is optimal, and their silence on the subject is interesting since my advocacy for nolynch is being used as a scum-tell against me by a couple of players.

2)...I don't think using a lottery is a good way to choose who you're voting for :/

nah, I am a little bit more confident that h.fitz is scum than xite,

but xite would be easier to lynch.

Rather than waste a bunch of brain resources, I did the equivalent of flipping a coin, and we got to share a teaching moment as a side benefit.[/quote]

1) Or because they seem to be a little less... involved... with the game? Also, it's not a scumtell that you suggested it, it's a scumtell that you're STILL pushing it, and you didn't start pushing it until you had a lot of pressure on you.
2) Bolded.....

if we do that then no-lynch becomes optimal on day 2, and informed scumhunting still doesn't begin until day 3.

"Informed" scumhunting starts as soon as we get a flip. Two makes it better and so on.

I didn't notice that I had left off the Iamausername column and page number column on my screen shot.

Did Leech or Xite follow up on this? Did anyone else notice that the description I gave "the column on the right is the page number where each vote occurred" did fit the graphic I posted?

Did anyone notice that I left Iamausername out of the portion of the screen I grabbed?

Maybe because I took one look at that picture and went "Yup... screw that"
Also, that kind of a thing won't even be really useful until later, you said so yourself.

@ Xite:

4) How about your case on fitz pre-wendy replacing in?

1) (s)he only explained it when questioned about why (s)he switched to voting Lat rather than explaining it at the same time. Not particularly damning, but this whole gambit seems like it could very easily be an innocent guise for scum to hide behind, and I don't like it.
@ underlined:
2) From that point of view, sure. And it would also be a fine way of protecting your scum partner in the process. (Note: I am not claiming that Xite and Nexus are scum together. It is however a thought that has crossed my mind and one idea that I plan on looking at if Xite is lynched and flips scum.)
3) A player should be judged on their own actions regardless, so in my opinion it actually should not remove any suspicion from Nexus anyway. If Nexus acts scummy, then it's because Nexus is acting scummy, not because Xite wants Nexus to act scummy. Illustration of this idea - the amount of time that the wagon lived on after Xite jumped off and claimed the gambit.

5) That said, Xite has earned back a few town/credibility points during the discussion with me, but is still my top suspect at the moment.

Lulz counting fail
4) His violent attack on the easiest player to attack should say enough?
1) If I had explained it when I voted for lat, I would have gotten more shit for it methinks, it's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda things.
2) Ooh Ooh Ooh are we gonna play the WIFOM game? I'm an expert at that one!
3) It always takes a bit of time for a wagon to die down because there will always be those die hard fans (Take lincoln park as an example)
5) *gets down on knees screaming and crying* WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO EARN YOUR AFFECTION??!?!!??! [/moviemoment]
But seriously, what are the reasons I'm still your top suspect?

[Xite91]

1) I specifically asked LML and CA because I believe that both of them are experienced enough to know that nolynch is optimal, and their silence on the subject is interesting since my advocacy for nolynch is being used as a scum-tell against me by a couple of players.

2)...I don't think using a lottery is a good way to choose who you're voting for :/

nah, I am a little bit more confident that h.fitz is scum than xite,

but xite would be easier to lynch.

Rather than waste a bunch of brain resources, I did the equivalent of flipping a coin, and we got to share a teaching moment as a side benefit.

1) Or because they seem to be a little less... involved... with the game? Also, it's not a scumtell that you suggested it, it's a scumtell that you're STILL pushing it, and you didn't start pushing it until you had a lot of pressure on you.
2) Bolded.....

1)I'm not really pushing it. If I were

really

pushing it I'd be throwing a professor mafia scummy in your face and calling most of you idiots for swallowing the "no-lynch is sub-optimal" site meta without noticing that this specific setup is an exception to the general rule.
Hopefully, after I flip y'all will reconsider it for Day 2. In this game, if you chart player proficiency against opinion of no-lynch in this specific setup, you'll see that those with titles and lots of game experience (with the possible exception of LML) agree with me that No Lynch

before mylo

is a key consideration.
2) Yes, I had two players I was suspicious of , and I took the tactical consideration of lynch capacity into consideration in picking which one to vote for, or in this case figured that the total difference was slim enough that using a provably random mechanism to choose whom to vote for was ok.

@Wendy
1) Other than games on this site, you don't know the "game experience" people have. Also, I do think that a no lynch would be a good idea AFTER DAY ONE, and that is the point we (as in other than you and maybe? Llama) are making. Again it's a

key consideration

as in they haven't said it's the absolute best idea, but it could be a good one. I mean, what if we catch scum D1? Then doesn't it become optimal to wait or not No lynch at all? We

need

the info from the D1 flip. The fact that you're still trying to push the same idea down our throats IS the point. Plus, it amuses me that now you're trying to convince us based on "the experienced players"
2) The way you worded it was interesting to me because you said that Fitz is more likely to be scum than me (AKA you have doubts that I'm scum) but I'm the easier lynch candidate so you couldn't decide on your own and just chose randomly? Just looks scummy to me

[Xite91]

xite, the only people who should lack doubts about a D1 lynch target are those with a scum win condition.

For a town player the baseline % chance of any other playing being scum is currently 22%, and to double those odds would be a remarkable piece of scumhunting, and would still yield an inaccurate lynch more than half of the time.

Yeah, only problem is, seeing the way people flip greatly increases the chances of catching scum, regardless of your statistics. Two people flipping by D2 is much better than 1 IMO.
I never said I lacked doubts about a D1 lynch target. Yes, they could be town, but they also could be D2, or 3 or 9798798. But the thing is, they could also be scum.
Now seriously, stop pushing for a D1 no lynch because it's not going to happen.

[Xite91]

1) That was me trying to be

friendly

in a not completely I'm going to hug you and hold you forever kind of way. I don't even know how you read that in a negative tone at all, so I gave my personal philosophy on mafia, your point? I do believe Nexus did a good thing pointing out what he did, that doesn't mean I agreed with it. This would be similar to you liking how Leech is critically thinking yet you believe he is wrong. Xite didn't even take this in a negative way, he gave a light hearted joke like response some time in this thread.

2) Love how both of you like to attack tomorrow wendy when he posts fluff yet you attack him when he's posting useful information when Xite (and kinda fit) says that it will be useful later. If it is why are you complaining? Looks like both of you saw IIoA was a scum tell and decided to bash anyone who does so no matter what the content is.

3) Do you not care enough about finding scum that you aren't make an organized case in order to present all the evidence and information needed to lynch or find scum?

4) Xite is more scummy. I looked at another game CA was in so I figured he was just… not very good. I haven't looked at any more of his games though.

5) I looked at over tomorrow wendy's posts and I think I figured it out. tomorrow wendy's just messing with all of us. Most of his posts just looks like he's trying to get reactions out of others, though he could do a better job if he's town. I am not against his lynch as much as I was, but I still believe that Xite is a better lynch.

1) You don't wanna hug and hold me forever? T_T
2) I attacked him for it? I think I asked him about it, but he asked me why I didn't notice something about

his

chart and I gave my honest reason, it's too complicated for me to care about it until it's actually useful
3) I don't care enough to make a case with points that I've already stated, especially when it's pretty obvious why the person is scum/scummy to me
4) Awww does that mean that you consider me a good player?
5) Why don't you come down from that fence, lat?

[Xite91]

1) Or because they seem to be a little less... involved... with the game? Also, it's not a scumtell that you suggested it, it's a scumtell that you're STILL pushing it, and you didn't start pushing it until you had a lot of pressure on you.

I wouldn't quite consider me "uninvolved", especially with a comparison to CA. While I don't think this was a complete try to undermine any pull of what I'm saying, it seems incredibly awkward to put me in the same boat as CA. Especially since, as of this post, I will have posted 40 times, which is on the upper-half of the post count list for all players. Prior to this, I had not found you any scummier than most, but this comment gave me pause.

I said "less involved" not uninvolved. You didn't seemed as interested as a few people, which is why I was saying that. Wendy was calling you two out together at first, so you could argue that she was the one that put you guys on the same level.
Also, you tend to post twice at a time, and lately you've been posting about 3-4 posts every other day, which (compared to people like me, wendy, etc. who post a *bajillion times a day) makes you look less involved.

*Disclaimer: That is an exaggeration

and the more I think about it...

[quote="LML's completely MetaGaming so you can feel free to ignore this.]

Dalt's first incorrectly parsed vote was on Saga, who is Nightwolf now. In the stone age, it was commonplace for new scum to vote their partner out of the gate as a way of 'distancing.' It's odder that Nightwolf currently is defending TW's actions (former Dalt's actions) by playing the "Adel would never do that" card. It also makes me wonder if the Alt was possibly outted on purpose for that rationale.

I really want to see TW's alignment.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

And this helps prove my point a bit

[Xite91]

it just occurred to me that an excellent argument for lynching xite is that it would shut him up, and make the game more readable for future replacements and those who reread the game. A more informed town is more likely to succeed, and a more readable game thread yields a more reading of the game yields a more informed town.

Interestingly this same argument would work for you was well, wendy.

[Xite91]

EBWOP
*as well

[Xite91]

1) Well, I was just pointing out an obvious miswording in what you wrote. I love the "I was talking to friends while writing it" comment though. It's the second time you've mentioned an outside-the-game defense. First it was trying to get Wendy to ask another member of the site how you act in real life, and now it's talking to friends which makes you mispost. Nice. I'm foreseeing a "I had a good post, but my dog ate it" excuse in the near future.

Also, I find it really funny that as soon

as I call you out on it

you start focusing more on Wendy

2) Yeah, because that's obviously what happened. It had absolutely nothing to do with Wendy posting and continuing her self-destruct intentional newbie play at all. I find it funny that you're acting like your words were a deciding factor in what I posted, when I clearly replied to a post that Wendy had made. If she hadn't posted again you'd have a point, but she did. What you did there was try to put me in a position where no matter what I did, you could claim it was scummy.

Yeah, only problem is, seeing the way people flip greatly increases the chances of catching scum, regardless of your statistics.

3) No, no it doesn't. The only thing that increases the odds of catching scum regardless of the statistics would be scum playing poorly. A flip won't change statistics, the skill level of the players, however, will. I'll touch on this more later.

Also, you tend to post twice at a time, and lately you've been posting about 3-4 posts every other day, which (compared to people like me, wendy, etc. who post a *bajillion times a day) makes you look less involved.

4) As I said to Wendy: Post count does not reflect alignment. Your posting style does make people look less involved, but that has no bearing on the alignments of the people you are posting more than.

5) How is it this vote only got a very brief comment from Nexus then, for the most part, ignored by everyone else? I can't be the only one that sees a problem with this horrible vote.

1) I lol'd a little at that. What else did you want me to say? You asked me a question and I gave you an answer. Also, I don't have a dog, but maybe you'll get that excuse about my parakeet
2) No, just the fact that you posted things about her right after I mentioned it was funny, maybe not scummy yet, but amusingly ironic.
3) I said regardless of statistics because this game, while it does have some mathematical basis, is still more a game of logic and deduction more than anything else, therefore, seeing flips and checking back to see their interactions with other players will help us catch scum far faster than math will.
4) I never said anything about his alignment. I was trying to point out that I thought Wendy was trying to manipulate people who seemed less involved with the game. Can I have another mouthful of words, please?
5) For how much you seem to be paying attention to me it amuses me that you didn't catch that I did say some things about it, but more before, when she gave the proof of random and after when she said that her reason for wanting to vote me was because it was easier than Fitz

[Xite91]

@Wendy - And you say my signal to noise ratio is bad?
@Fitz -
1) Ok, fair enough
2) No, and as much as I wish (and then don't because it would be a hassle) no. But I see what you're doing now, and I'm fairly certain that's what you would have done then.
Were you not convinced that dalt was scum? Were you not angry when everyone just looked the other way?
It WAS a violent attack on him, one of those kinds where you're kicking the person while they're down, or using a medium range weapon on him when he has none (and no training for that matter)

[Xite91]

post 500 is an example of scum distancing.

sure it is?

[Xite91]

fmpov you have done quite a bit of that with Xite as well. While continuing to ignore more than one coment/question directed at you by me.

P.s a re-read of your post 498 is quite a good laugh. That is the limpest towel I've ever seen thrown in. You don't even commit to anything with it. It's just some throw away whinging.

Why don't you just assert you are town...and say honest injun...so we can believe you and try to find the real scum.

So... you don't think hes scum now?

[Xite91]

Okay, so I had a bunch of posts I wanted to respond to but it pretty much amounts to this and I"m too lazy and too strapped for time to say the same thing again and again.
First, the Adel slip was almost obviously on purpose to get you guys to do what you're doing.
And then he says that he posted the chart to fulfill his meta?
But didn't someone say that posting useless information and pushing irrelevant things was his scum meta?
And he said that that chart wasn't useful until at least tomorrow.
Just sayin.

Second, Lat, I don't care to post a case because if you ISO me you'll see things like ^that throughout my ISO and I lack enough givadamn and time to go back and copypasta my case.

Third, If you guys lynch me I expect a Wendy lynch tomorrow and then maybe either IAU, lat or nightwolf, but based on IAU's last post, I'd prefer him. I think Lat is just following his footsteps (AKA Lat is probably an impressionable townie), and I don't think Nightwolf is paying attention to the rest of the game, just the "scummiest" people

Fourth, Fitz, I see what you're saying, but the reason it was so scummy was the way that you worded it, not what you were trying to say.

If you want me to answer any questions, go ahead and ask, but I think I just summarized everything everyone was saying about the situation that was important
Oh yeah, and wendy is scum. Lynch Wendy plox

[Xite91]

Oh boy WIFOM!
Or you got caught and so you're doing that during D1?
Lesse... who were two of your biggest attackers...
Me and.... Fitz!
Holy hell I think we've found something

[Xite91]

Lesse... who were two of your biggest attackers...
Me and.... Fitz!
Holy hell I think we've found something

How is that relevant?

Ironically, you just posted this before

as scum, I expect that I would've slipped through day 1 rather easily, and if cornered down the road I would've make sure to out post my attackers and kick up some super serious chaos if I got cornered... which wouldn't have happened on day 1.

(btw, the whole "wendy panicked at lynch -2 is a red herring. I know I could've hung out at lynch-1 for a while without actually being hung.)

Only difference? I bolded why It's relevant.
And if you look at what I said before those three sentences, I was pointing out that maybe she was caught on D1, I was pointing out that she was grabbing her own rope IMHO

5) Well, let's see. I find your gambit really anti-town. You are posting a lot and yet don't seem to be doing too much scumhunting (even before everyone started the major 'interrogate Xite' phase). Your case on Nexus who you thought was town when you made it contains better reasoning (in my view) than your cases on Lat and fitz who you did suspect. Often when you do say something is scummy, you don't often support it by explaining why or how and instead let others do so if they agree. You have some inconsistencies in your posts. I can see scum motivation for basically all of your actions and find it harder to see town motivations. I think that about summarizes it.

and I don't think Nightwolf is paying attention to the rest of the game, just the "scummiest" people

I'm paying attention to the game, but no I don't feel the need to confront those who aren't near the top of my list with more than an occasional question or two. Any points against them will still be there if/when I believe they are scum.

Everything before 5 Fair enough
5) I did point out my reasons, it was just small one-sentence things for the most part. I just don't add all the pretty quotes and stuff as much as I probably should.


Last part- K. Just doesn't seem like it.

been thinking about Nexus's careful & deliberate voting. He seems convinced that vote hopping is a scum tell. In particular, I suspect that his voting habits in past games would be worth a deep meta exploration.

This looks a lot like OMGUS to me.

I'm pointing this out because baiting someone into breaking site rules to draw a mod kill is a tactic that is occasionally used

a possible example of such:

(You can send a PM to Kmd, he knows me IRL )

Heyheyhey, that was about my personality as a whole, I never said "ask about this game" I was simply saying that if they wanted to know about my personality IRL, they could ask KMD because he knows me IRL.
I think I pointed this out already. In fact, it was after Nexus got all jumpy saying the same thing you are...
Are you trying to pull AtE on the poor noob?

wasn't an ad-hom... look at how sloppy your last post was. You thought I was trying to lynch Ca instead of Ca, you thought that I had claimed a "mafia catcher award" and I felt it was rather clear that you didn't bother with the questions I pointed in your direction, and i reckon that you didn't bother to look at the on going game i just linked to.

Wow. WTF Wendy? I cannot envision a pro-town player ever voting for themselves, even in jest. Frustration could be played much better than this.

Confirm Vote: TW

wasn't trying to emulate frustration, was trying to get overeager scum to go for me.

I lol'd

I feel the no-lynch play doesn't matter as much as long as it's played, mathematically. The odds do not change

, and I, personally, would like to see a flip before a no-lynch is played.

Unless we lynch Wendy because she is SCUM

[Xite91]

It is also interesting that llamafluff is moderating him in two games. I would expect llamafluff and CA to have a decent feeling for Xite's play, and have strong opinions on his alignment.

Funny thing is, I try to change my play a bit each game, first off, so that metas can be pointless
Also, yes they can have a feel for how I play, but not so much based on scum/town.
Also, honestly, if people want to look at people's metas in ongoing games, they can look for themselves. Why are you posting them?
Or is it that whole posting a bunch of irrelevant stuff as scum thing again.
Since you seem to place so much belief in metas, why don't we talk about that one for a while?

[Xite91]

because it is fucking tedious. This way I lay them all out, you have a chance to point out any that I missed, and anyone else that wants to follow up can do so more easily.

But what does it have to do with THIS game?
Since they're ongoing, people can't use them for evidence, just "gut" reads.
Again, irrelevant information was my big point on that.
Also, if you're going to say things about people at least point out why they're relevant a little.
IE. Your little thing about Llama.
Looks like now you're just trying to see what sticks.

[Xite91]

Fitz, you're forgetting one important thing
Regardless of how much more scummy she is, she's an alt of an experienced player, which means that everything she does is for a reason, and not because she's scum, and since I haven't been on this site very long, I am obviously very inexperienced, therefore everything I do makes me scum.
That's why I'm more scummy than Wendy.

[Xite91]

Going through to see something starting with newest post to last.
These are posts where Wendy has posted IIoA, Something worthless, something that was already pointed out, or something irrelevant (AKA for all of them, something distracting) and the post before said post.
by the way, in this post worth noting = against her

547, 548
There is an answer to my question, but a bunch more IoA and ignoring my main point of that post.
544, 545, 546 (This one could be ignored because the first relevant post is two posts before hers, but I'll leave that up to the reader)
My post: Holds a bunch of good points (at least IMHO, but I'll let you make that decision yourself)
Nexus post: Nothing worth really noting
Wendy's post: a bunch of my games
533
Okay, nothing worth noting before hand
527-531
Nexus saying a few good points
Wendy completely ignoring nexus and going on something completely different
525
Nothing of note here
521, 522
Me point out another thing against her based on what she said
her taking it and saying it reminds her of a bunch of quotes that don't seem to fit the situation
519, 520
Me making points against her
Her: "gosh day one is serious business" points she makes about herself that is use in 521 against her and ohai, I can haz towncreds?
488, 489, 490
Another case against her
Ohai guyz, we could lynch xite so she'll shut up (hmmmm)
Although a no lynch would be better
477, 478
Just read it.
460, 461
Another time where she completely ignores Nexus
432, 433
This one, she acknowledges that nexus said something (even quotes him) but doesn't try to argue anything said about her
then goes on to "prove random"
405, 406
This.
If you're not going to read any of the others, fine, but PLEASE read this one
381
Already explained why on this one, but seem like a scummy explanation as to why (honestly, the explanation was so she'd seem more town to those who meta)
366-370
Another one where I'll have to just say read it. There really is no explanation required.
345-347
Another good few points against her, and she says gambit and ohai, here's some questions for everyone

tl;dr - Wendy is using diversion tactics IMO

[Xite91]

Okay
EBWOP because of ninjas
Only real thing I feel I should respond to this is Wendy's post with the links
Thing is, you have no idea who's more "experienced" than who, and I've seen some pretty bad "experienced" players. Oftentimes when I call someone a noob, it's less based on actual experience and more based on play. The worse and newer looking a play is, the more likely I am to call someone a noob. so I'm not going to waste my time going to the link because my ideology on that one will not change.
Now hows about actually scumhunting. In your ISO I just did, I found a lot more noise than signal, IMHO

@Prana: Thank you for saying what needed to be said about ongoing games.

[Xite91]

Oh my fucking god wendy, shut up and let us kill you.
You are making me not like this game and that takes a whole hell of a lot.
As for the points I had against you in the past few pages? Pointless because now you are obvscum even more than before and if the rest of the people in this game don't see it i'll

Hm, it's nice to see you're serious now tw, and it looks like Prana's getting a little angry.

Prana and Xite, what do the two of you think of each other?

I don't have much to say about the last two pages. A lot of it is just discussion about no lynch and ongoing games. tw don't you think the scum already have a good idea about who they're going to kill, and if we do lynch now that would help the town get information faster and lynch scum faster?

I don't have much of an opinion on prana since i seem to replace out of all of the games we play in
How does Wendy seem serious?

[Xite91]

Oh, sorry lat, got caught up in all this meta crap wendy's spewing.
I don't know what he is so far, I want to wait to see the NK to have much of an opinion on him.

[Xite91]

How can neither of you have not have an opinion on each other? You're both playing the same game, and you've both been here for a while.

How does Wendy not seem serious?

Eh, he hasn't done anything worth really noting. I'm glad he agrees with me on the wendy case, but further than that I'll have to wait and see when the noise is gone.

Are

you

serious?

[Xite91]

Havent read since my last post but a skim shows lack of sudden CA wagon

vote xite

Just ISO wendy and your vote will probably change

[Xite91]

Okay, so apparently I missed a whole page and a half of info somehow (as expressed to me by the votecount)

Because... I don't have time now perhaps? You think I spend all day every day on here or something? Seriously? I'm actually busy today, so I'm just flicking over when I get an e-mail to say there's a new message, I don't have the time to dedicate to a full ISO check.

and seriously? do you have any clue how much time and effort I've put into this game? And you're going to lynch me because you don't comprehend me? What a huge freaking waste.

Effort? I lol'd

mod: request replacement

-- mafia isn't a good idea for me anymore.
sorry folks, enjoy the rest of your game. I replaced in with the best on intentions, but I still care too much.

"but I care too much"
AtE way too much???

Holy post explosion!

@ wendy:

Are you thinking about advocating for a last minute switch from Xite to CA?

Yes, it was something that I was thinking about a little, and was planning on going and rereading a few things involving each of them if there was still any possibility that it could happen before LF checks in and moves his vote, which would kill off any remaining chance that wagon had. Now however, I'm putting that off so that I can reread a different person, you. Seriously, get your act together already or I may even hop on and hammer.

Why would you wait so long to give the hard no-lynch push anyway, if it was really what you wanted. There is NO chance (in my view) of it going through this late and close to deadline. If you wanted to push any theory of it at all the best time would have been when people were still voicing their initial opinions on it. Heck, I wrote up a full section analyzing it with just some of the basic thoughts/arguments that could be used for and against it. You could have used that as a starting point mentioning why some aspect was wrong or adding other arguments into it.

Also, from quickly reading this whole explosion just now combined with a bunch of your previous posts, you don't always even seem to know where you stand. Half the time you're pushing for day 1 no lynch and the other half your emphasizing that the main concern is that it has to be before mylo. Guess what, at least a few people here have considered that it should be before mylo as well. I believe you even said it would be "the first time in the history of the site" or something like that (cant be bothered to look up exact wording right now), so why can't you at least be happy at that much?

Preview Edit: Oh great, a double replacement now as well. I can't say that the thought that it might just be best to lynch wendy('s slot) now didn't cross my mind as soon as I read that. /goes on to reread.

Nightwolf did you forget this whole case right here?
What have I done that we haven't talked about?
Did wendy even say anything about this?
This looks like hardcore fence-sitting
Again, when I get lynched today, I really expect a Wendy lynch tomorrow.
And then now more of a nightwolf lynch than an IAU lynch

1) On that note, wendel, could you explain in as much detail as you can recall the circumstances surrounding your alt slip? Why were you logged in as Adel, and why did you think you were logged in as tomorrow wendy? Thanks.

2) But Xite called me scum, so I am totally gunning for him now. OMGIS. (In seriousness, his support for the wendy lynch feels considerably less sincere than anyone else to me. Given this and the above, I am a lot happier with having to switch to him than I expected.)

Or is it that whole posting a bunch of irrelevant stuff as scum thing again.
Since you seem to place so much belief in metas, why don't we talk about that one for a while?

3) Prime example of non-sincere Xite attacks. I'm so glad I brought up Adel's scum meta earlier.

4) Signal:noise ratio increased, but signal in general also increased imo.

VOTE: Xite

1) Hey wendy, wanna answer this? How about anything that has been directed at you without the rage and AtE?
2) I'm gonna be nice and take the OMGUS as a joke, but how do I feel less sincere? I'm the one that has wanted her lynch this whole time, if I was less sincere, wouldn't I be backing off of her by now and just let the town get a'lynchin?
3) Oh, that's insincere? How exactly? I was pointing something out, something else that got ignored by her, mind you
4) Yeah, but about 80-90% of the noise is her. Also, shouldn't we take her own advice and lynch solely to shut the person up?

Side note: Nexus, you're growing up so fast T_T I'm proud of you boy.