Newbie 993 - Game Over!

[Hinduragi]

/confirm

No offense, but for the sole purpose of not misspelling names and failing to type out long names, I'm going to be abbreviating many of your names alot.

[Hinduragi]

You edit your own wiki. Just make an account. Then click the wiki button under a post of yours and click the edit tab and start editing. There's a how-to guide if you're unsure of how to add wiki stuff. I don't know what you mean since mine was updated when I confirmed in-thread. It'll have my onsite experience. My off site experience currently includes 5-7 games.

Vote: Star

for working too long. Btw, for whoever is wondering, this is RVS. (Random Voting Stage) We'll randomly vote to get discussion going so we can move into the actual game. Don't mislynch anyone, though. Our IC will answer questions you guys have about the game and its mechanics when he is back.

[Hinduragi]

I voted for a pretty ridiculous reason, but it was a reason none-the-less.

Voting for less-likely reasons are one thing, but you should never vote for something completely ridiculous. That just makes the game take longer to start.

I really don't see where you're going with this. The game starts depending on when people start questioning votes, defending their votes, and hunt scum.

Actually, in many cases you learn more from a town lynch than you do from lynching scum. Obviously lynching scum is our main priority, but it's not always such a horrendous thing to mislynch, as it can result in leading us in the right direction.

Really? I have seen plenty of town mislynches that are then followed by "Hey, he was on the bandwagon, let's lynch him" or "Hey, he started the entire case, let's lynch him" which results in a second mislynch. Once someone flips scum, you get to look for affiliaitions and links to the other players that scum had. Town mislynches have confused townies and scum(Though I've seen instances where it was just townies alone) on them, in most cases.

That statement just seems wrong. Previously in your post you make it appear that you are trying to help, by explaining things then follow it up with passing questions off on the IC. While, the IC is here to help newer players, you specifically took on a "teaching" role immediately before doing so. You know what that says to me? You wanted to start off the game winning some townie points by trying to help, then pass the buck off to the IC so he could take on the actual role of IC, that he is assigned in this game.

Yeah, it probably wasn't clear what I was thinking so let me be straightforward about it. The IC immediately said he was going to be gone for most of the day. I figured it would be a much easier way to start the day off by explaining why we just voted for what could be described as the shittiest reasons they've seen. It seemed better than waiting for him to come back and explain why we just voted off of seemingly nothing.

Hinduragi: What do you not understand?

I didn't understand why you said the other players didn't have wikis since mine had just been updated.

The only thing to do would be to question Hinduragi as to why he felt the need to write "Do not mislynch though"

I think it's obvious. I didn't want a mislynch.

I was gonna vote Mysterio for being first as well, but I don't want to pile on in RVS.

L-3(3 votes away from being lynched) is not anything I consider dangerous in a newbie game.

Not at all. I'm saying that I won't vote until I would want everyone to vote with me

I don't get it. So if you don't want people to vote with you, you won't vote. So, uhh, you're saying you won't bus as scum? Or did you mean you want to lead bandwagons?

[Hinduragi]

That's what happens when you try to make something out of a random vote. It's ridiculously easy to kill the entire point with a single sentance and end the conversation.

Point taken.

You shouldn't fear voting in the chance you will mislynch. Even they give information, that was my entire point

It's not to the point where I fear voting. I'll vote if I think they're more likely to be scum than anyone else currently alive in the game. When you originally said that, it sounded like you were suggesting we shouldn't care about reconsidering our votes once they were on someone. I later saw in another of your posts describing how you thought of things this was not the case.

With all things considered no matter who you lynch, if you play your cards right, you can catch scum out of it.

Agreed but I'd much rather lynch scum.

Steppen -
What's your opinion on things so far? Who do you think seems scummiest? I find it odd that you posted one short reply and then left us.

Brod-
What do you think of Myst?

Myst-
What do you think of Brod?

Everyone else-
Stop lurking.

[Hinduragi]

Oh, right, forgot to unvote.

Unvote

Hey, Wolf(Or Steppen), why aren't you answering my questions?

[Hinduragi]

It's easier to search for them as individuals, undubitably. Looking for affiliations is best left for after you've got a confirmed scum. Speculation like that is just WIFOM.

[Hinduragi]

Okay, that is the reason why you wrote it, but why did you feel the need to write it?

Some newbies tend to think of bandwagons as good.(And they can be) While this may not seem particularly harmful, either 1.) A VI jumps the gun and hammers or 2.) Mafia jumps on and hammers - It's not common, but it's happened to me before.

While you say you forgot to unvote, the question I have is: Why are you unvoting in the first place? Unvoting for the sake of unvoting is pointless. If your vote is on someone that might get lynched, and you don't believe in the lynch, then you have a reason. Not having your vote out there, anywhere, is pointless.

The answer is simply that I planned to switch my votes. I just didn't have the time to build a case on said suspect, so I didn't vote on the spot.

Also, how is it WIFOM?

"Hey, those two guys are tunneling on each other. Obvious scum team" "No, they aren't. They're scumhunting but they're obviously confused townie" "Dude, I don't know what you're talking about. It's obvious they're just trying to distance each other" "No, that's legitimate scumhunting" etc etc...

I would like to know why you felt it necessary to point out a somewhat obvious game tip, without anyone actually asking for help?

I mentioned the tip to get the game started.

Vote: Mysterio

I'll explain my case later. I'm going to try and sleep for now.

[Hinduragi]

...You guys have GOT to be more terse. It's great that you guys want to post content but, when it comes down to it, alot of it is irrelevant fluff. I should not have to kill my index finger scrolling down pages. Good luck, Illume. You're going to love the WoT's so far. Also, I'm personally tired of seeing the bs being thrown around. "He's suspicious because of this and this" etc etc...For all I care, it's nothing but a cover to hide yourself. I have seen plenty of "Well, this is interesting"...My main point: It won't mean shit because your vote isn't backing it. Seriously, half the players here haven't used the power they've been given to the fullest capability it has: a vote. I don't care where it is. I'd just like to see something in concrete that can actually have some reflection on wtf's going on in your head. It's like some of you are afraid of putting a vote out there.(Literally, Myst and I are the only ones voting) This entire game has been one big failure of a discussion on game mechanics which doesn't yield many reads. What I want to see is suspicions, opinions, and votes. Not "Mislynches may or may not be harmful because...".

Steppenwolf

-
Go to the last page and answer my questions.

Onto my reasons for voting:

Spoiler: WoT(Spoilered to reduce clutter)

vote: Hinduragi to pressure you for a defense from Leech's suspicions.

I really didn't get this. You're voting/pressuring for someone else's suspicions?

I'm really leaning toward the idea that you and Hinduragi are simply attempting to distance yourselves early, so that the rest of us will find it hard to believe that you are scum buddies.

Cool but I hadn't even replied to him by the time that you said this. This reads to me as an attempt at false scumhunting.

Oh, and just so no one accuses me of dodging, I just happen to be lurking the forums when I saw the thread.

All in all, this reeks,

reeks

with an air of nervousness that has you qualifying and re-qualifying yourself in an attempt to make sure suspicion doesn't fall onto yourself.

Currently, my only suspicion lies with Hinduragi, but depending on his response, that could change to a total "I have no clue" status for me.

You said they were Leech's suspicions earlier and now they're yours. Again, I don't get it.

but I just want to point out that Leech had managed to remove himself from my radar by answering my objections

This is either poor town play or scum with poor scumhunting.

Yeah, in the interests of avoiding another wall of text, which seems to be killing this game, I'll just let you have the last word on this particular discussion. The others can decide if there's anything more to elaborate on.

If you aren't going to argue your case against him(I'll admit, though, that horribly clogged the game up), then why is your vote still on him? That's like saying "He's scum for this, this, and this". Then, after he responds and gives some reasoning as to defend himself, you ignore him.

[Hinduragi]

Well, umm, I think we can conclude that Mysterio and Leech probably aren't both scum. I don't think two scum would pick apart each other's posts like that. That's my gut feeling.

I get where your gut feeling comes into play here because I "sorta" felt the same way. But there's a decent chance that scum is hiding within the game mechanics lynch because he can fully discuss that without any proof as to his alliance. The lengthy posts are indeed unnecessary as they discuss these game mechanics. Game mechanics can be discussed in the mafia discussion section. I'm here to lynch some scum. Another question for you: Who is particularly jumping out at you so far in the game and why?

Leech

-
What about you? Have any suspicions?

Thian

-
I haven't seen much to judge you on. Where do you stand? Why isn't your vote on anyone if you've been asking so many questions?

but again I won't go after it to keep the game intact.

I think you should explain how it was WIFOM. I want to see what's going on in your head. Keeping the game intact involves discussing players' actions in the game and you were doing that earlier. Don't back down on it. It may not be WIFOM but explain it, please.

[Hinduragi]

It wasn't so shoddy a defense as you make it out to be. In fact, it was decently backed, if you ask me. You shouldn't "avoid" WoT's when you're giving reasoning for voting or defending yourself. It voids the purpose. He now can't make a proper defense because you backed off the argument against him. I'm not going to point out specific quotes becuase, frankly, I'd make yet another unnecessary WoT. You want me to point out arguments I think are well made? I'll give you

a few

examples. Don't expect me to give reasoning as to why I think it's a good argument. I'm not speaking for this guy because he should defend himself. In fact, making me help you with an offense while I'm voting you doesn't exactly seem fair to any of the players here so I'd appreciate it if you responded to him to present a proper offense, not to me to present a proper defense.

Spoiler: A few examples

You've made some bold claims about me intentionally trying to confuse the town, and have yet to quote me doing it a single time. Your walls of text are full of accusations and "reasons" but devoid of substance, that is my point.

As for your reasoning, that's BS. Yes, my posts are wordy, they are in every single game I play in. What does it say about you, in retrospect? You're posting some pretty large WoT's yourself. I ignored it, the first time, when you requested that I shorten my posts because it's hypocritical, but the fact you're using it against me? It's laughable. 2 shorter WoT's in a row is the same thing as one longer one. Why is it, exactly, that you are allowed to splice up my posts, but I'm not allowed to do the same in response?

Why do you seem to be under the impression that I've ever suggested we do anything "blindly"? You seem to be taking simple things and twisting them to try and force a scummy feel. Find where I have even attempted to quick lynch in this phase. Where have I encouraged anyone to vote for you? I'm not concerned with this day ending any time soon, and I'm completely baffled why you'd even come to that conclusion. Also, when I said you had a scum perspective it was in no way linked to this subject. The fact that you are using pieces of an argument in places they were never argued shows me that you are trying to manipulate this into something it isn't, and never was.

Again, that wasn't my one point in voting you and there isn't any good reason available to ignore the rest of my argument. The other points are valid and will remain that way, even if you choose not to answer them. There are ways to reduce clutter, even in quote walls. Notice that I kept my points concise so as to avoid another WoT convo.

[Hinduragi]

EBWOP

I'm not going to point specific quotes becuase, frankly, I'd make yet another unnecessary WoT.

Should be:

I'm not going to point out all the quotes with points because, frankly, I'd make yet another unnecessary WoT.

[Hinduragi]

@Hinduragi post #104: None of those quotes are at all substantial. The first one was a confused attempt at deflecting my accusations. That quote literally says, "You posted reasons for why I'm suspicious, but you didn't post anything of substance." How in the world does that make sense? He may not agree with my reasoning (and why would he), but that comment was hardly worth responding to. The second quote was nothing more than whining. I shouldn't have to go through this thread and point out how many WoT Leech has posted to prove my point. He then complains that I posted one or two of my own, however he fails to mention that they were all

in response to his wall posts

. The third quote was pretty much a "nuh-uh" response. All in all, waste of my time.

The first quote was him saying you didn't have sufficient quotes backing your arguement.(You can link posts by right clicking the post number instead of quoting the entire thing btw) The second was more or less about you being a hypocrite in your points. The third was you misrepp'ing him. You should reread the post where I took those excerpts from. You're largely ignoring the entirety of my argument while defending yourself.

[Hinduragi]

It was a scenario question. Simply put, I wasn't accusing him; I was asking if would he do it if he was scum.

[Hinduragi]

This game vastly feels like the majority of players are sitting back while others make discussion for them to pass judgement on. I'm not accusing anyone specifically but it just doesn't feel like each player has been looked into accordingly.

Star

-
Why are you paying attention to Kirby? What do you think of Steppen?

Kirby

-
Why are Brod/Star/Myst town? We're on page 5. In fact, even if it was page 50, I'd advise against ruling out people. Giving out townie cred also lets scum easily rule out the best NK choice.

Illume

-
Hey, you here? Why are you voting Myst again? You gave opinions on one person and then disappeared hardcore.

Leech

-
Are you tunneling on Myst?

Mod: Can Illume be prodded or replaced?

[Hinduragi]

Hinduragi, do you find it is tunneling? or would you say that the debate between Leech and Mysterio has taken the spot light since there are a few people who have not posted much.

No, I don't find it is tunneling nor do I find that debate took the spotlight. I found that the entire debacle did result to be a hindrance to scumhunting, though. I did my best with what I had during that debate by questioning others. That question you're mentioning was worded bluntly and ignorantly by intention.

I don't get it, Kirby. If they're your gut reads, that's hardly going to get discussion going, man. You've gotta give some type of opinion as to what your thoughts are so far. Ok, what are your thoughts on star? Don't even give me that gut read stuff. He made 2 posts as to the actual game prior to your post.

Oh, and now that I think about it

Mod: Steppen needs a prod too.

I didn't see that he had last posted when Illume did before.

[Hinduragi]

Star had made 2 posts about the discussion so far. In those, he was giving his opinions on game-related mechanics. I didn't think this could even give me a gut read.

No, Thian. Sometimes you want to see how they'd respond. I would explain how I analyze the responses here but I think it's better to do so in post-game. Letting scum know what I'm thinking when I scumhunt isn't going to get me anywhere. There's alot more to questions I ask than just the questions themselves.

It didn't take a spot light for me, really. Asides from Myst voting Leech and a few other points that could have been condensed alot, yes, it was a hindrance in that it garnered attention and was very lengthy. I'm not sure what you mean by spot light but if you mean it derailed the town in a way, yeah, it did.

[Hinduragi]

^I'm still here btw, hohum. Waiting for answers to my questions from some inactive people. I'm also lol'ing at Mysterio and that pro active lurking.

[Hinduragi]

Alright, having read through what I missed, I see a lot of repeats. So, I'll be doing a bit of a drive-by on the repeat arguments.

The first quote was him saying you didn't have sufficient quotes backing your arguement.(You can link posts by right clicking the post number instead of quoting the entire thing btw) The second was more or less about you being a hypocrite in your points. The third was you misrepp'ing him. You should reread the post where I took those excerpts from. You're largely ignoring the entirety of my argument while defending yourself.

Firstly, it's not actually your argument. This is just something you're piggy-backing off of. Second, I've already responded to these points. Go back and read my full replies to Leech where I quote exactly what I'm accusing him of doing. I didn't type up those WoT's in response to Leech just to have to type them up again. Post's #79 and #87 are the posts you should refer to. Notice that I quote him and then argue how that particular quote is scummy.

I don't want you to repeat yourself. He responded again with an argument that proved your former statements wrong. It's your case against him. Not mine. Don't try to direct your response to me. Direct them to Leech. My point is you aren't letting him defend himself. You dropped his case. And, yes, it is my argument. You ignored all of my points but one when you mentioned "Again, to avoid more walls of text (was getting tiresome), I'm just going to respond to Hinduragi's main contention". I don't want you to ignore everthing and pick the one thing you can defend yourself against. That's a nice way to lurk past my questions but I'm not going to let it happen.

[Hinduragi]

Shotty, I'm not scum and I'm not active lurking. I'm pushing a case I think is perfectly fine. After that grand entrance you just pulled, I'd normally have you as my top suspect, but I've had experiences where I've been wrong about you before so I'm willing to push for the lynch I think is more likely to be scum. Also, what are your thoughts on Mysterio? Does he seem scummy or town? Why?

With that said,

Mod: I'm V/LA until August 16th

.

[Hinduragi]

Shotty, answer my questions. Just because you say I'm active lurking doesn't make you active lurking-immune.

Trust me the last game I played was with hindu and he was scum, and he acted just like this.

Link the specifics please. That game is finished so it shouldn't be a problem.

Kirby, I'm not sure what you want from me. I've given my opinions, looked into what I thought was worth investigating, and have placed my vote. If you want some other type of content, then just ask me stuff.

On another note, Mysterio has ignored my response again. I'm fine with his lynch. (Deadline is the 20th, right?)

[Hinduragi]

OHHH Damn sorry, I mixed up my games. I'm in a game with some one named black mist, and I got confused sorry
Yes there is reason that Mysterio is scum

I don't buy this either.

Hey Mysterio, where are you? Waiting for shotty to pull the attention onto himself while you wait in the shadows?

Star, what're you up to, man? Give us something.

[Hinduragi]

I've played with Shotty twice before. In the first, he was epic VI town. The second, he flipped town but I had the most hardcore read on him as being #1 scum. I just don't really think he should be the lynch for today. Then again, he most likely will end up hindering my reads Day 2. I'd like to wait for a certain someone to come back from V/LA so we can see his opinion on things.

[Hinduragi]

Hey Shotty, who do you think is scum?

[Hinduragi]

Why'd you vote yourself?

[Hinduragi]

Unvote; Vote: Chimp Pants

[Hinduragi]

Unvote

I wanted someone to say "Chimp Pants is obvious town" but noone did. I did get reactions, though, which I liked. I think it's interesting Mysterio had no problem in voting for Chimp though for the sole reason that he's "repeating the same exact claims". And now I check back in to see his vote changed to Shotty after Shotty addresses his points.

I mean he hasn't really done much, but catch up, talk about what we've already talk about, and active lurk, which yes is scummy, and if I had to choose a second scum it would be him, but he hasn't done enough to make a case worth anything.

If you asked that and I had to answer imedietly I would say Leech and Thian, but that is mainly because I am mad at them

Ok. Leech/Thian -> Myst/Brod. Yep, man, you're outed here.


...Oh wait. Fuck Mysterio. Why'd you hammer before he claimed? I'm ashamed at this Day 1.

[Hinduragi]

I didn't even realize he was at L-1 until I went to count the votes on him. It's possible he didn't know either.

[Hinduragi]

Ok, I can see that. But why not just say "Claim, Shotty" instead of hammering or hinting at him to claim?

[Hinduragi]

@everyone: Who is most likely to be scum if shotty flips town? What if he flips scum?

You, because you're asking during Twilight so you know who to kill during the night phase. Noone.

Shotty, you've only played with me in 2 games and I was scum in both.

[Hinduragi]

Oh yeah, Kirby, can you answer your own question for us?

[Hinduragi]

How do you know I play any differently as town then?

[Hinduragi]

They'd appear scummy. Trying to out someone as town so early is nothing town would do. Scum would know said person is town and would say "Hey, he's playing well. That vote isn't well justified. I'll get some support and attack the vote".

[Hinduragi]

Bah, go town.

[Hinduragi]

Sigh, I was ready to quicklynch Mysterio, Kirby, and Thian, in that order before I was NK'd. Thank you town. After such a good D1, I was ready to rage at you all if you didn't win. Also, we got REALLY lucky with star random protecting Chimp. So anyways, scum, why did you kill me first? I've been reading the game every so often. You guys kinda had less posting throughout D2/D3 but I guess that's due to lack of players.

Chimp, excellent playing. You kept cases on the people I wanted looked into. (Also, thank you to town for not letting Kirby misrep my dead self when I voted Chimp. I thought I made it 500% clear that I made that vote to get an obvtown reaction from someone)

Thian, you did ok as cop, but you really need to look less scummier. Ever since halfway through D1, I had been looking into your past game to see what kind of play you had. I suspected you may've been a PR which is why I didnt push a case D1. The entire PR suspicion was mainly because your motive in this game seemed similar to your first game's motive although your play was more aggressive. You should've investigated Mysterio D1. He was scummy and if he was town, scum would keep him around to help take the limelight away from them.

Mysterio, you were obvious scum to me particularly from your nervous manner and behaviour in the game. Alot of people don't spot this as a scumtell but I learned of it from playing as scum in my first game here. Your bandwagon on me in D1 was pretty bad since the reasoning you gave seemed like a placeholder vote. Next time the cop gets a result, you should counterclaim or some WIFOM to try and keep yourself alive, though. You may've somehow won this, though all hope seemed lost.

Kalimar, thank you for making that slot seem pro-town. The predecessors of it were lurking far too much.

Kirby, your promises were definitely looking like unmotivated scum to me. Sometimes I feel that way when I play scum but I post my content anyways. You just promised stuff and, right when it was needed, you suddenly became active. That was all I needed to think you were scummy.

Leech, I read you as pro-town. Your #25 is all that I needed. It was town-bait and something to keep scum off a quicklynch, really, since they wouldnt be able to say "Well, I didnt know!".

Star, I'm kind of disappointed in your play. You let everyone else do the work. You should've replaced out if you couldn't meet a good activity level.

Shotty, you need to drop the VI play. I'm starting to be in so many games with you where, even when I can somehow read you, your play is just at the point where I'll gladly PL for the hell of it.

Springlullaby, I lol'd.

[Hinduragi]

Yeah, when I posted the really lucky part, I hadn't even noticed Star had been replaced. I thought it was going to be a stalled game waiting for a replacement when I said that it was really lucky.