/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

Can't they be Goons?

Janitor is pretty harmless.

Assassin is out of the question.

[DrippingGoofball]

This is also a message to any potential vig; stay quiet early, unless you're very sure.

What does that mean, in English?

[DrippingGoofball]

For wagon analysis, the votee's alignment doesn't make that much difference. Plus it's only one-shot, right?

[DrippingGoofball]

Is the day rolecop that powerful? Roleblocker is marginally more lame.

vote: janitor

[DrippingGoofball]

Vote: Janitor

^^^ town

[DrippingGoofball]

The arguments in favor of an assassin must be over my head or something.

I remind everyone that I'm VLA Aug 1-7. I'll be leaving early Sunday morning, so that after Saturday night you won't hear from me for a week. I expect no access whatsoever.

[DrippingGoofball]

But the scum won't know who they're janitoring, right? So they may janitor a PR as much as a vanilla, and they won't know. They could get caught that way.

[DrippingGoofball]

(I still kinda feel like I'm reading gibberish from both you and DrippingGoofball...

After I read your post, mine read like gibberish to me, too. Never mind...

[DrippingGoofball]

Scuse me for spewing more gibberish, but aren't we losing sight of the forest because of the trees? We're picking a scum power role, it's going to be inconvenient. The real question, is what we feel is less inconvenient.

Are the potential PR-shenanigans of a 1-shot janitor worse than, say, a dead PR from an assassin?

We have to concentrate on the relative inconvenience of each PR, not absolute inconvenience.

[/ignore gibberish]

[DrippingGoofball]

Hi guys, I'm back from VLA (yay mith missed me!!!), I have a game to mod and a few games to catch up but I should get around to it soon.

Are there cliff's notes?

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm swamped and it's really hard for me to ponder on a week's worth of discussion, I saw that it had moved from janitor to roleblocker. Not having read the pros & cons, roleblocker is pretty un-objectionable and I have no qualms about it.

[DrippingGoofball]

Two hiders be incredibly powerful for the town if we know we have them (though it be somewhat unlikely that we do.)

The only way if have 2 hiders is if every single scumbag fails at reading comprehension. The chances of that are minuscule.

A single hider no be all that powerful and be able to protect itself even if outted.

I suppose there is no harm if there is only one hider. But there is no clear advantage, either.

If we have no hiders at all then the hider claim no outs any town power roles and prevents the scum from making hider fake claims later in the game.

That's the only advantage I see, and it's not a big one.

[DrippingGoofball]

I AM a hider.

[DrippingGoofball]

Wo wo wo

Before you all get excited and change your choices, I'm not actually a hider.

TOWNIES: expected to speculate what role the scum might have picked given the presence of one hider.
SCUM: expected to be overly skeptical because they know I'm making it up.

Enjoy gambit #1!

[DrippingGoofball]

Elmo is definitely town. He has no clue that I may be faking this, he's taking me at my word, and laboring the intellectual exercise of re-figuring the game.

mith's first post is OK, but his second post smells a little more of informed minority. In post #277, he seems rather cocky about the possibility that I may be lying. Also, the fact that the first post is OK, and the second suspicious, shows that his mental process followed two distinct steps...

ekiM's posts are rather cryptic and worrisome. It's like he's working to keep a cool head in the face of something he doesn't expect... a fakeclaiming townie, perhaps?

Herodotus's post rings townie bells.

Troll is town. He's all innocence and trollish bad odor of sincerity.

Amished's reaction is neutral - he's keeping the cards close to his chest.

Ooba... mmm... I'm not sure that a scumbag would come right out and declare my hider claim "unexpected" as this would be rather transparent... but you never know.

Hoopla... I like how she kept a low profile until I de-fakeclaimed. Then pounced.

[DrippingGoofball]

It was pretty obvious you were faking.

Was it?

How come you didn't say anything, and waited until I was done?

[DrippingGoofball]

Because you wouldn't have got your precious information from your gambit.

So you knew I was fakeclaiming town? ^5

[DrippingGoofball]

Seeing as you just got a role locked in that a number of players (myself included) only voted for based on the pretense that a hider exists, I a bit muffed about it. In fact, I'm just going to tunnel on you until one of us is dead based on the idea that this was a scum gambit designed to influence which roles the town gave to scum.

I didn't expeect such a fast hammer, but in any event, Janitor is harmless (IMO). Breathe.

[DrippingGoofball]

We should wait for as many of Kmd4390, My Milked Eek, and Papa Zito as possible to claim. If no hiders, roleblocker. Otherwise assassin.

And if some don't show up in time??? What's the backup plan? Are we assuming no hiders?

[DrippingGoofball]

That's a plan.

Vote: Roleblocker

[DrippingGoofball]

...you seem to be assuming that there no be any hiders

This may be bad probability theory, but it seems increasingly unlikely with each player claiming "not hider."

[DrippingGoofball]

Do not give them a roleblocker on top of the fucking janitor.

You'd rather have assassin? It is counter-intuitive.

[DrippingGoofball]

You know, Amished makes good points.

[DrippingGoofball]

... but DGB has my vote for the foreseeable future.

Nice, now you don't have to hunt scum, you can avoid the risk of taking positions that might compromise you or your buddies, and you can't get caught by vote analysis.

Kinda like lurking to victory, the fake-tunneling version.

[DrippingGoofball]

She would. In fact, the "gambit" to show your town seems very DGB to me. In fact, it seems engineered to do just that. There was little to no town gain in what she did, even theoretically. Yet it came at an obvious price. But by doing the fake gambit, she gets town points because she's pretty confident people will take it the way you do.

anyway, my question was still about your criteria to your actual selections. They seem to be not so related.

Not only are you dispensing from scum hunting announcing right out of the gate that you'll be tunneling on me, but you're also trying to make sure I don't hunt scum.

FAIL

Caught you

DIE SCUM DIE

vote: zoraster

[DrippingGoofball]

Rhinox is ringing town - loud and clear. Just sayin'

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, anyone that beats me to the earliest town vs. scum list is town. Bravo ooba.

[DrippingGoofball]

Elli is town, too. I only disagree with mith in this list - not hugely scummy, but belongs in "people left."

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, KMD and Vas are still a little iffy for me. I need MOAR to judge.

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't like 'ooba's I have more scum reads than town reads' wall.

^^^ THIS is why you're voting ooba, of all reasons???

That happens to me all the time, having more suspects than there can be scum player slots, and it drives me up the wall when people run up a wagon because I suspect 4 players when there is, say, no more than 2 scums left or something.

[DrippingGoofball]

1. Her certainty that there would be no Hider claims coming from the remaining four players.

I have no idea where you got this notion. There was no certainty, only an ever-dimming probability.

VLA August 14-18, Caffwagon!

[DrippingGoofball]

"SCUM: expected to be overly skeptical because they

know

I'm making it up." - emphasis mine.

That's true; they would only know if there were, indeed, no hiders. I was online several times while the claims were happening, and decided not to post my fakeclaim until it seemed like there wouldn't be a hider. My language was ahead of my calculations, but now I see where you're coming from with this.

[DrippingGoofball]

Further, I was also toying with the idea of claiming to be second hider had one claimed, but a second hider was so idiotic that it would have been too obvious a fake claim. I might have done it anyway - but maybe not, because townies might have been too rightly skeptical. The whole thing begged for a gambit if there was a window of opportunity.

In other news, I'm not getting the KMD wagon at all.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hi guys, just got back from Caffwagon, 13 hour drive to get home, doing some laundry, will post tomorrow.

[DrippingGoofball]

Zoraster, can you explain in two sentences why you want to lynch DGB?

Tajo, look at me in the eyes you scumbag, and be honest with me.

Was that a leading question, or are you actually interested in the answer? Because if you're interested in the answer, he's already given it. Which means, it's a leading question.

If you were hunting scum you'd be asking him his opinion of OTHER PLAYERS, something he's avoiding to do.

[DrippingGoofball]

So zoraster: What was so anti-town about the gambit in your eyes?

In my dreams, I'm seeing a tajo/Amished scumteam trying to whip up and exploit a tunneler.

[DrippingGoofball]

It's funny that a lot of people I had on the PEOPLE LEFT section are all on the Hoopla wagon.

Hoopla is the EASY LYNCH DU JOUR. This was decided last night in the QT.

[DrippingGoofball]

But it's not funny that we have 1 week to deadline, and most people are low-activity.

A sign we're lynching a townie, and the scum don't want to rock the boat.

[DrippingGoofball]

VasuDeva is the second highest wagon competing with Hoopla.

[DrippingGoofball]

So zoraster: What was so anti-town about the gambit in your eyes?

In my dreams, I'm seeing a tajo/Amished scumteam trying to whip up and exploit a tunneler.

How seriously are you taking those dreams right now?

CONCERN: not enough data
ACTION: watch for further actions

[DrippingGoofball]

CONCERN: You're voting Zoraster, and stating a fear that scum are trying to exploit him.
ACTION: Wonder why you haven't moved your vote if you believe that fear.
RESULT: None.

I'm glad I answered your question.

[DrippingGoofball]

...

You can't be real.

Unvote, Vote: VV

Its like a damn scum manifesto

GOODIES:

Everyone can breathe a sigh of relief, SpyreX is town in this game.

And I love me some Seraphim...

Unvote, Vote: VV

[DrippingGoofball]

Also also, that 'he attacks people who wagon on him' point is bullshit. I think the proper term would be 'abrasive defense'. Not nearly the same as 'attack', doncha think?

The only person I have ever attacked is Hero, and that's because I see Hoopla, who I perceive to be scum, voting him.

Well, that's before you came into the picture.

Do I get my 5 bucks?

VV is attacking a player, because that player is attacked by a Scummy One?

Did I get that right?

[DrippingGoofball]

If people could explain why they feel the AtE...

AtE is a rubbish tell on the accused, and a small scumtell on the accuser(s).

[DrippingGoofball]

....and why didn't you contribute your analysis on Day 0?

I was in New Hampshire without internet access for a whole week.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think the possible slip on zoraster is decent and (rare D1) concrete evidence---he seems to assume she's town when explaining why she's scum.

VOTE: zoraster

ZOMG my dreams are coming true

A zoraster wagon is forming

Zoraster wagon > VV wagon

VOTE: zoraster

[DrippingGoofball]

I was in New Hampshire without internet access for a whole week.

This is a good reason! Can we now have your views on the janitor role?

It's the least inconvenient to us; contrary to what people are suggesting, there is no need to know the alignment of the lynchee for wagon analysis. Furthermore, if the scum fakeclaims anything, chances are great that they'll be caught anyway.

[DrippingGoofball]

VasudeVa>>zoraster>>Hoopla

Same. But I still think KMD is scum.

I barely recall that KMD is in this game. And you think he's scum?

[DrippingGoofball]

Nope. Bad attacks with bad scum-buddy coaching theory. Hero is defscum.

I was going for a soft roll-out with my earlier question to Hero, but since you put it out of the open... I think Hero is distancing from KMD. Because KMD has been rather invisible. It would be a classic move; KMD isn't in danger of being lynched, and you're "drawing attention" to your buddy when no one else is.

Hero's next step was probably to vote another player before it catches momentum, while complaining about how much it pains him to unvote KMD.

[DrippingGoofball]

VV, please comment on my post 627.

[DrippingGoofball]

I have no response because I do not understand.

Lemme see if I got it. Soo, Me, KMD and Hero are all scum and, Hero is bussing me while distancing KMD. Did I get that correct?

No, actually, I'm trying to assume you're not scum, and I'm trying to help you out of a defensive position if you're town.

In fact, if you're town, Hero might be doing a variation of the classic "FOS:buddy, vote: town."

[DrippingGoofball]

It's not literally an FOS:buddy, but it is in spirit.

VasudeVa>>zoraster>>Hoopla

Same. But I still think KMD is scum.

He's voting you, claims to be willing to vote zoraster and Hoopla, yet he brings up KMD quite forcefully. And KMD is doing pretty good with the lurking so far, with slight pressure from Elmo (and maybe others I didn't notice).

[DrippingGoofball]

The above is only valid if VV is town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Just iso'd KMD.

He does reek of anaerobically rotting lurker scum.

MPR lurked his way to victory in GoW. I'm traumatized. I can see KMD trying to pull that off.

[DrippingGoofball]

SpyreX, Rhinox. The town-on-town catfights are a distraction. Stop hissing and share your litter box.

[DrippingGoofball]

In other news, Herodotus has now claimed scum twice. I do not believe that townies make jokes about being scum, unless they're elvis_knits. It's something you do as scum to release the stress of being caught. And the stress of being caught bus'ing.

I suppose I could vote KMD; but I'm more confident in the bus driver being scum, than the guy being squished into the asphalt.

unvote, vote: Herodotus

[DrippingGoofball]

Ellibereth, Herodotus, DrippingGoofball: Unless the player you are voting for receives another couple votes in the very near future, your votes are being wasted....

Blech.

Hoopla's making herself scarce is scum giving up.

The other scumbags will have to wait in line for their turns.

unvote, vote: Hoopla

[DrippingGoofball]

I'd be willing to switch to KMD, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Hoopla's continued "giving up" is solidifying my vote by the hour.

Ninja edit: I agree with Rhinox.

[DrippingGoofball]

Anywho, me no likey any of the options but out of them lynch Hoops, Vig Vas, is the one I like.

Vig Vas, who wasn't on your scumlist, and let the person you've been voting all day, who was on your scumlist, wake up tomorrow? Why?

Want flip of Vas more.
KMD gets a lot easier and easier to read as time goes on IMO.

Mmmmm. why do you want a flip of Vas, since there is a possibility of janitoring??? We might get NO FLIP at all. Lynching for "information" is like, the worst possible reason in this game - at least until the scum have used up their lynch mop on a player.

KMD isn't going to get easier to read, he's lurking.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, darlin, you might want to go back and read what he's saying again.

Thank you for correctly pointing out that I'm smoking crack.

[DrippingGoofball]

vote elmo

...but elmo needs to die ASAP.

Well, I can't see any in-thread reasons to lynch Elmo, so your reasons ought to be good ones.

Same with Elli's ekiM vote. Out of the clear blue sky.

In other news, I'm perplexed that Amished and tajo were NK'd, as BOTH looked rather townie to me.

Mmmmmmmmmmm

[DrippingGoofball]

Amished didn't particularly strike anyone as scummy, either. How many votes did he get yesterday? Right.

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, KMD is my leader today. Just sayin' - I get his drift.

VOTE: Elmo

[DrippingGoofball]

Tajo thought Amished was scum.

Hai scum

Are you suggesting that tajo killed Amished???

[DrippingGoofball]

I just counted how many votes against Amished were recorded by the mod.

None.

[DrippingGoofball]

No votes =/= people didn't think he was scum.

That barely makes Amished a likely vig choice.

[DrippingGoofball]

Seraph, we're not lynching the Lynchalicious One today. You're just going to have to cry in your beer at the QT Bar with your scumpals.

[DrippingGoofball]

Amished's opinions:

TOWN:

PZ
VV

MILD SCUM:

ooba
Troll
Hoopla

SCUM:

Hero
KMD

But then again he was hardly pushy about it.

[DrippingGoofball]

SpyreX, are you smoking crack or something???

Or are you protecting your buddy Elmo???

Jesus. How many hints does it take? We're lynching Elmo. Here's the key to the Greyhound, start driving.

[DrippingGoofball]

For that (and other reasons):

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

Another one? mith, you need to bus your partner, too. Get on with the program. You can't save him with counterwagons.

[DrippingGoofball]

Urgh?

No.

We catch scum, we lynch scum. We need informative lynches. If we lynch scum, then the vig can take a chance at some other player at night.

It's like you want to tie up the vig tonight so that you don't have to worry about being mowed down yourself, or your non-Elmo buddy.

[DrippingGoofball]

All is right in the world, I got my Elmo love back.

unvote

Now, Elli's ekiM vote seems pretty mysterious.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ Elliscum

BECAUSE:

Tajo was the vig kill. No, I am not claiming vig. It is just painfully obvious.

I knew that KMD was hinting at role-based info, so I took it for cash to the bank.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hi scum. Is Elli bus'ing you?

Hoopla was making herself scarce in the face of a growing wagon. I considered that to be scum giving up.

[DrippingGoofball]

Plumegranate, DGB, ekim, and Elli all deserve some attention today as possible scum.

If Hero flips scum, on of the above players is his buddy, and it ain't me.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm starting to agree with ooba. I could see vas/rhinox as scumbuddies

Because Rhinox is

defending

VV???

Ah, no. VV is the perfect bus accident victim. Can you imagine a scumbag wasting town cred to save VV-buddy? If VV is scum, and I am far from being convinced this is the case, Rhinox would be the last player I'd peg as his buddy.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB's jump to suspect me earlier and then immediate jump to believing me is kinda weird. Hmm.

The jump to suspect you was because I picked up that KMD had rolebased info, so I rolled with it. As for believing your story, yeah, that IS weird

[DrippingGoofball]

The jump to suspect you was because I picked up that KMD had rolebased info, so I rolled with it.

You knew exactly what kind of role-based info, though.

I knew he had SOME rolebased info that made him quite certain that you were scum. I didn't even bother trying to figure out what rolebased info, because it's a waste of my precious neurotransmitters. Compromising-rolebased-info = wagon ho! KMD needed wagon-support.

He claimed "Elmo killed Amished". Given that you thought I was town previously, how does that translate to suddenly thinking I'm scum rather than a vig?

KMD hinted you might be. That's good enough for me.

Then you explained your decision, and mith is right, there is no point lynching you.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ SpyreX

WHERE ARE THE MOONBEAMS???

[DrippingGoofball]

*bangs head against wall*

[DrippingGoofball]

It's a win-win situation for scum. Have VV act in a VI-ish manner. Players dismiss him as VI. He isn't a strong player anyway, so if he comes under heavy scrutiny, they can bus him easily. Also, if there's a lot of noise about VV in the thread, that might help overshadow the other scum in the topic and make VV a more likely vig target.

It's incredible speculation and there's no real basis behind it besides my speculation.

That whole scenario is so absurd if can only come from scum feeling the burn of being unable to get a VV lynch.

He's like Wile E Coyote; he's lost sight of his goal which is to eat the Road Runner for his sustenance. Now, he just wants to blow him up into smithereens.

That's how scum-Seraphim has become with VV. It's all becoming clear to me now.

VOTE: Seraphim

[DrippingGoofball]

lol and here come the votes. Fuck me I was having fun with this game too.

Your time of screwing with the town is over my friend.

[DrippingGoofball]

lol in what manner have I been "screwing with the town"? I'm quite curious.

Nightkills, janitoring, etc.

[DrippingGoofball]

If we're going to talk about "janitoring", let's not forget that it was your "hider claim" that let the janitor role get through, aye?

I have no regrets, I still consider janitoring to be one of the lamest powers to give the scums. I hope you and your pals weren't too disappointed. It sounds like you were.

[DrippingGoofball]

Seraph is reading faiirrly town AND SUPER TOWN if VV is scum because no way in hell this is a bus.

This ain't a bus, Sweet Moonbeams, this is scum losing all sense of perspective going after a townie.

The VV ardent task force is rising once again to the matter at hand and its awesome.

Meth does you no good.

[DrippingGoofball]

Sera is so town.

From my point of view, I've done exactly what he's doing... when I was scum. So your mileage may vary.

[DrippingGoofball]

Self-meta to call another player scum?

Haha, I was thinking more along the lines of "projection" but your diagnostic is funnier. Now that you mention it, 100% of my reads are self-meta projections...

[DrippingGoofball]

Where's zoraster at?

[DrippingGoofball]

Gah. Seraphim may not be scum after all. He's making my scumdar spin like a top.

Just top fighting.

Iso zoraster, dammit.

The scum is there.

Tunnel, lurk, lurk, lurk.

VOTE: zoraster

[DrippingGoofball]

First, zoraster tunnels on me.

Then, the below:

I'm not upset you're voting Hoopla. I'm upset you're voting people and then refusing to say why. And for defending people without saying why.

If you don't want to play the game, don't sign up for the game

.

This is RICH in "foresight." Look at Mr. Push-The-Lurkers throwing his weight around! Later, he himself starts to lurk hard.

Why MME, mith? Three of your four top 4 are pretty active and have had suspicion on them from others. I don't think that's true of MME.

= Active lurking textbook example.

got a prod. been traveling to visit my folks. I'll evaluate why there aren't more DGB votes shortly (as well as whether the other wagons have merit).

He never follows through on the DGB-hate.

AUG 18:

Active lurking, doesn't say anything significant

In a game with this amount of superstars and at the pace we are going,

there has to be at least one lurking.

Yes I know that silly stuff about 1 of 6 players is scum blah blah blah. What I did was to give a DEFINED list of players. Random can kiss my ass. In endgame, every reason to decide your vote counts and adding green to this defined list (with town flips) should be helpful in the long run.

Zoraster is still blabbing on about lurkers, and he's correct! He's the lurker-scum.

Zoraster, can you explain in two sentences why you want to lynch DGB?

Sure:
DGB made her anti-town "gambit" without any real calculation on whether it was helpful to the town, but she reasoned (correctly, it seems) that a "gambit" almost always comes across as pro-town, even when its substance is decidedly not. DGB is absolutely capable of using such a ploy, and we should not allow scummy behavior to slip by just because it comes from an chaotic player.

Fake-sounding tunneling thank you very much.

V/LA until Sunday night

OK, I buy this one.

Back from vacation. I have a game I'm modding that I need to launch, but I'll be catching up very soon, given that the deadline approaches.

*** NOTE THE CHANGE IN POSTING FREQUENCY ***

isn't everyone "maybe scum"? In any case, sorry for the absences. Been bad timing with travel, the timing of night, etc.

I'm reviewing back, but some of my reading feels "stale" if you know what I mean. Perhaps better to answer some questions to get back into it? Anyone have any for me or was that wagon just driven out of malaise?

^^^^^^^^^^^ Is that post scum, or what? Ask a vague question to no one in particular and run.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB: Two questions. One: How accurate do you feel your reads are, in general?

Does Geezer Mafia count? It totally shouldn't, because I sucked it in, I vig'ed two townies, didn't suspect 2 scumbags, defended the third... So, we agree not to count this game, I'd say my reads are about 40% correct, and normally the scum is roughly 25% of the players, so that's pretty good. If we do include Geezer Mafia, my reads are, historically, 0% correct and I should stick to modding.

Two: If you're innocent, how do you think you would have played this game to this point as scum?

Sounds like you're begging for WIFOM-sauce, so here it is. First of all, you'd be dead, not tajo. Also, if I were scum, and VV was my buddy, he'd be lynched already. And - you've seen me use the confused/paranoid card in your game, so... that one is about 7 layers of WIFOM.

[DrippingGoofball]

You're forcing me to navel-gaze, something I like to avoid.

I don't want to bore people with self-analysis, but yes, I do have reads on people that are based on how I've acted as scum in the past, and how I've seen my buddies act and interact. My playstyle may be unique only because I am not going to let caution get in the way of scum hunting, ie, the fear of garnering votes, or the fear of being NK'd. My personal longevity, especially as town, is not relevant - unless I'm a PR, but even then, I'm pretty impulsive. Besides, the "self-meta projection" works. It delivers.

(for example: Would DGB-scum tunnel/lurk, as she is giving as her reason for a zoraster vote?), though that may be because DGB missed the point of the question, instead focusing on "this is what I'm not doing, but would do as scum" WIFOM-defense.

The F??? You ask me a question that can only be answered with a WIFOM-BBQ, then you call it "WIFOM-defense" when it wasn't even answering an accusation, but some apparent idle curiosity? This is more WIFOM, but I actually answered without even thinking about how you might perceive me to be behaving in this game, since that's WIFOM, too. Your question was a loaded one, in the sense that you could spew out your preconceived retort regardless of what I've answered.

Your last paragraph is disingenuous. You know me better than than. You've modded me. Either you're scum, and want to keep my seat warm for a possible lynch, or... disingenuous-ness is hardly a town tell.

I just made an excellent case on zoraster, and I see that after not posting a while, you show up, scheming to discredit my case by way of discrediting me, couched in WIFOM-voodoo-semantics that I have little patience for.

Mith + zoraster

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

mith really needs to die

[DrippingGoofball]

hmph. I did say that didn't I. Not many took that advice though. Is that why you haven't been weighing in on the subject? If not, my point still has some validity to it.

mith is scum, though.

[DrippingGoofball]

Unexplained flip from "zoraster>VV" to "vote: VV".

Could be a variant of FOS:scumpal, vote:townie.

[DrippingGoofball]

So maybe it got lost in the shuffle, but are we completely leaving the elmo tajo thing alone? It seems like in our quest for information, this might be a good place to start, especially since we know they have a roleblocker.

unvote, vote zoraster

It doesn't happen often, but some votes really don't need an explanation.

[DrippingGoofball]

Are you even reading the game? I just posted a case against you.

Also, obv you're not scum hunting at all. Lazy scum much?

[DrippingGoofball]

You didn't feel confident enough to bring any heat on me when I was pressing for your lynch before

, but now that I'm "vulnerable" so to speak, you've been going after me.

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME GAME?

EVIDENCE

(1)

... but DGB has my vote for the foreseeable future.

Nice, now you don't have to hunt scum, you can avoid the risk of taking positions that might compromise you or your buddies, and you can't get caught by vote analysis.

Kinda like lurking to victory, the fake-tunneling version.

(2)

She would. In fact, the "gambit" to show your town seems very DGB to me. In fact, it seems engineered to do just that. There was little to no town gain in what she did, even theoretically. Yet it came at an obvious price. But by doing the fake gambit, she gets town points because she's pretty confident people will take it the way you do.

anyway, my question was still about your criteria to your actual selections. They seem to be not so related.

Not only are you dispensing from scum hunting announcing right out of the gate that you'll be tunneling on me, but you're also trying to make sure I don't hunt scum.

FAIL

Caught you

DIE SCUM DIE

vote: zoraster

(3)

I think the possible slip on zoraster is decent and (rare D1) concrete evidence---he seems to assume she's town when explaining why she's scum.

VOTE: zoraster

ZOMG my dreams are coming true

A zoraster wagon is forming

Zoraster wagon > VV wagon

VOTE: zoraster

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't get what you keep saying about getting info the elmo-tajo thing.
You being zor.

And what do you think aboue people OTHER than DGB.

+1

We shall never find out

The scum will take the secret to his grave

[DrippingGoofball]

obviously I'm a bit biased, but this type of semi-joke (said meant to be serious but in a humorous way) is DGB scum at her core.

Submit proof - otherwise it's an empty statement like every other "statement" you've made in this game.

Regardless, what Elli (and now mith) have asked for is time consuming given the amount of review it takes. It will come, but posting "heh heh he's not posting on it" ain't going to make it happen faster.

You really do want to take it to your grave.

[DrippingGoofball]

Really, I just want you to give us your buddies before we lynch you.

Just list them, you don't have to review anything.

[DrippingGoofball]

UNVOTE: Zoraster
VOTE: Papa Z

'splain?

[DrippingGoofball]

By the by, take notice that what mith is actually attempting to do is discredit my reads.

You really think that? I mean, I'm his top choice for scum, and I'm yours too... how does that add up?

[DrippingGoofball]

I've had scumpals not following the game AND the QT... the two often go and in hand. I do agree he's unlikely faking ignorance. Doing it for WIFOM reasons might backfire badly, I don't think that's what's going on here.

[DrippingGoofball]

I agree with KMDarian2.

WE CAN DO THIS

unvote, vote: mith

[DrippingGoofball]

No it's not.

KMD's is absolutely correct. It's like mith took a scummy logical detour in his urge to switch from me to a more viable wagon, like zoraster.

Did you read KMD's #1166??? Thoughts?

[DrippingGoofball]

I've had scumpals not following the game AND the QT... the two often go and in hand. I do agree he's unlikely faking ignorance. Doing it for WIFOM reasons might backfire badly, I don't think that's what's going on here.

I did agree with KMD's post, before he posted it. Evidence above.

Gawd you are so scum it hurts.

[DrippingGoofball]

Question, does Zor normally have a reputation as an intelligent player?

Yes. Analytical. Not VI.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB: You agreed with Kmd's post, before he posted it, and made 1161 rather than voting for me? For serious?

For serious. I was debating with whether you would be doing this as scum, or as town. I made a case against zoraster. So I liked your conclusion (a zoraster vote), even if your own logic should have led to the opposite conclusion (a vote for anyone but zoraster). But see, that's how you gave yourself away as scum; you were looking for a reason to join the wagon so badly that you didn't realize your "logic" was upside down and inside out.

Better luck next time.

[DrippingGoofball]

Surely if zoraster is scum, he would be aware of the Kmd/Elmo situation (via quicktopic if nothing else).

Right off the bat, this premise is entirely false. As far as I've seen, a scum that flakes in-thread flakes in the QT as well. But. Let's say you're right, he's not paying attention to the game, but he's a devoted fan of the scum QT.

But on the other hand, surely if zoraster were town and thought the Elmo situation were worth discussing, and had been told

why

it wasn't being discussed, he would

go read the relevant portions of the thread

.

That, is true.

...ignorance is probably about as (un)likely either way, but add the possibility that he's scum playing dumb and it's yet another point against him.

Ignorance is actually quite likely either way. But the possibility that he's scum PLAYING dumb is remote. He may be DUMB SCUM, but PLAYING SCUM??? Nah.

So really, your conclusion ought to be that zoraster's lack of attention is a NULL-TELL at best (I correct my earlier statement that your conclusion should have been the opposite; it should have been DIFFERENT is more accurate).

HOWEVER, comes a demand for a claim, and a vote, at the crucial L-1 moment:

VOTE: zoraster (L-1)

I question your motives for voting zoraster. Here's where I'm at: I believe that zoraster is lazy, scaredy, not-paying-attention scum. But here comes mith, who tunnels on me, but at the end of the day, votes zoraster the leading wagon on reasons that should have him conclude a zoraster null-tell. So now I'm thinking you must be scum, and zoraster town.

[DrippingGoofball]

With less than 36 hours from deadline, I'll cut mith some slack and return to zoraster-scum. His wagon petered out, and he stopped posting. Not good.

VOTE: zorater

[DrippingGoofball]

It's not going to happen, VV.

[DrippingGoofball]

Sorry, RL stuff needs taken care of, I'll try to get a wagon analysis going in the next few days. waaaiit 4 meeeee!

[DrippingGoofball]

Quick note, I have to leave in 3 minutes, I agree with KMD. That's on account of my personal belief that lurkerscum is often similarly lurkerscum in the QT, and that ignorance of the game is often a scumtell (they don't NEED to scum hunt), regardless of scum day talk or not. My main objection to mith's argument is that he is not taking that possibility into consideration at all, and given his general calculated thoughtfulness, I'm perplexed as to why he doesn't.

I didn't have time to read the football argument and I skimmed the walls of post. Later. Except the football stuff. Not reading that.

[DrippingGoofball]

Public Enemy Number 1:

DrippingGoofball.

It's no defense, and it's WIFOM anyway, but if I had the pleasure of being scum in this game, I would not have missed an opportunity to kill you.

[DrippingGoofball]

DEAD TOWNIES

Hoopla

Amished

populartajo

Elmo

Herodotus

zoraster

Confirmed TOWNIES

Kmd4390

I'll break with tradition and I won't put myself in green, so that you can continue with the analysis after I'm dead, just "quote" cut-and-paste in Notepad and search and replace to change the colors.

Hoopla

(8) -- Papa Zito,

Amished

, mith, ekiM, VasudeVa,

Elmo

, Plumegranate, SpyreX
VasudeVa (3) --

populartajo

, ooba,

Herodotus

zoraster

(2) -- DrippingGoofball,

Kmd4390

Papa Zito (2) -- Zorblag, Rhinox

Herodotus

(1) --

Hoopla

Kmd4390

(1) -- Ellibereth
DrippingGoofball (1) --

zoraster

One scum in (20% chance, 2 points):
Papa Zito, mith, ekiM, VasudeVa, Plumegranate, SpyreX

Hoopla

(7) -- Papa Zito,

Amished

, mith, ekiM, VasudeVa,

Elmo

, Plumegranate
VasudeVa (5) --

populartajo

,

Herodotus

, Seraphim, SpyreX, DrippingGoofball

zoraster

(2) --

Kmd4390

, ooba
Papa Zito (2) -- Zorblag, Rhinox

Herodotus

(1) --

Hoopla

Kmd4390

(1) -- Ellibereth
DrippingGoofball (1) --

zoraster

One scum in (33% chance, 3 points):
Seraphim, SpyreX, DrippingGoofball

Hoopla

(5) -- Papa Zito,

Amished

, mith, Plumegranate,

Elmo

VasudeVa (4) --

populartajo

,

Herodotus

, Seraphim, SpyreX

zoraster

(5) --

Kmd4390

, ooba, ekiM, DrippingGoofball, VasudeVa
Papa Zito (2) -- Zorblag, Rhinox

Herodotus

(1) --

Hoopla

Kmd4390

(1) -- Ellibereth
DrippingGoofball (1) --

zoraster

one scum in (20% chance, 2 points):
ooba, ekiM, DrippingGoofball, VasudeVa

Hoopla

(11) -- Papa Zito,

Amished

, mith, Plumegranate,

Elmo

, Seraphim, DrippingGoofball, Rhinox,

Kmd4390

, SpyreX,

Hoopla

VasudeVa (1) --

populartajo

zoraster

(2) -- ooba, VasudeVa
Papa Zito (1) -- Zorblag

Kmd4390

(2) --

Herodotus

, ekiM
DrippingGoofball (1) --

zoraster

Two scums in (28% chance, 3 points)
Papa Zito, mith, Plumegranate, Seraphim, DrippingGoofball, Rhinox, SpyreX,

ekiM (1) -- Ellibereth
VasudeVa (3) -- Seraphim, ooba, SpyreX
ooba (6) -- Papa Zito, VasudeVa, Plumegranate, Rhinox,

Kmd4390

, ekiM
DrippingGoofball (1) -- mith
Seraphim (1) -- SaintKerrigan

1.5 scum in (30% chance, 3 points):
Papa Zito, VasudeVa, Plumegranate, Rhinox, ekiM

VasudeVa (5) -- Seraphim, ooba, SpyreX, AdumbroDeus,

Kmd4390

ooba (1) -- Papa Zito
DrippingGoofball (2) --

Elmo

,

zoraster

Seraphim (1) -- My Milked Eek

zoraster

(5) -- DrippingGoofball, ekiM, Plumegranate, Rhinox, mith
Papa Zito (1) --

Herodotus

mith (1) -- VasudeVa

One scum in (15% chance, 2.5 points):
Seraphim, ooba, SpyreX, AdumbroDeus,

VasudeVa (2) -- ooba, AdumbroDeus
ooba (1) -- iamausername
DrippingGoofball (1) --

zoraster

Seraphim (1) -- My Milked Eek

zoraster

(9) -- ekiM, Plumegranate, Rhinox, SpyreX, DrippingGoofball,

Kmd4390

,

Elmo

, mith,

Herodotus

mith (1) -- VasudeVa

2 scums in (33% chance, 3 points)
ekiM, Plumegranate, Rhinox, SpyreX, DrippingGoofball, mith

TOTALS:

14 PlumPom 2 3 3 3 3
13.5 Spy 2 3 3 2.5 3
11 DGB 2.5 3 2.5 3
9 Rhinox 3 3 3
8.5 Mike 2.5 3 3
8 mith 2 3 3
8 Seraph 3 2.5 2.5
8 PZ 2 3 3
7 KMD 2 2.5 2.5
5.5 VV 3 2.5
5 oo 2.5 2.5
2.5 Troll/Adumbro 2.5 (anomalous, Troll lurking)

[DrippingGoofball]

You can kill me now, I've done my work.

I'm calling the scum team right now.

PlumPom

SpyreX

I know I'm town
I have a town-boner for Rhinox

Mike

/mith/

PZ

(out of these three, PZ and Mike are the sketchiest, mith &I are different animals but I think he's the towniest of the three).

I'm not seeing any collective will at all to lynch any of the top contenders in my wagon analysis so I think the scum has us completely snowed.

[DrippingGoofball]

Votecount

mith (3) -- Kmd4390, Seraphim, My Milked Eek
VasudeVa (1) -- SpyreX
SpyreX (1) -- VasudeVa

DrippinngGoofball (3) -- mith, Plumegranate, iamausername

Not voting: ooba, Ellibereth, Rhinox, DrippingGoofball, ekiM, AdumbroDeus
14 alive, 8 to lynch.

Deadline: 28th of September, 9:20 pm, GMT.

Umph, for some reason I thought I had more votes than that... sorry, been distracted by RL and mafia commitments are a little burdensome at the moment.

Anyhoo, it's a little weak, but lo and behold, PlumPom is on my wagon.

[DrippingGoofball]

To have a wordy player like you biting at my heels all the time is pretty annoying, because I'm not big on wall-of-text arguments and semantic minutiae (source:

my body of work since I joined the site

), and I really don't fancy getting into this sort of nit-picky arguments, it's too much effort for my fluttering brains, and I'm guaranteed to lose - even if I'm right.

The various accusations are a nebulous bunch of things related to changing my mind (something I do every half-second, so if that's disrupting the game, just go ahead and lynch me). The slip thing is stupid. I've been pursued for slips a million times (wrong every time), I pursued players on slips a million times (wrong every time), so I really don't care for slips.

I'm kinda resigned, my lynch has been on top of the agenda since day 1, so the scum isn't going to NK me now, and I have to admit I wouldn't mind being the lynch because it would be convenient for me right now.

Saying that if I were scum I would have killed you already isn't playing to your vanity - people that have been scum with me previously, know that the players I choose to kill are the players that are too much of a threat. When they argue that the town will be suspicious, I always tell them that no one ever examines the reasons why a player has been NK'd on MS, it's a kind of taboo, you get lynched for even bringing it up. So just NK your enemies with impunity. Anyhoo, this large paragraph is a large pill of WIFOM to swallow, so let's leave it at that.

[DrippingGoofball]

To be an "illogical" player with a '"logical" player henpecking is probably just as irritating as being a "logical" player with an "illogical" player henpecking. This being said I don't consider KMD to be illogical at all, just taking your point of view here.

Curious - Can you point to any examples of you being "resigned" as town? As scum?

I'm not sure if it's even relevant here because I forget this game, and don't recall even the alignment I had, but I do have this quote from cicero in my Wiki:

cicero: "And because DGB is normally ridiculously hungry to scumhunt and push for info and basically act like a kinetic dervish as town, I found her gum chewing giving up routine to be a possible strong scum tell."

Have a ball looking it up if you care...

It's kinda of ridiculous to look towards a behavioral precedent for confirmation of alignment but hey. Whatever rocks your boat.

I'm not "resigned" as much as being rational here. Lynching scum would be better of course, but my credibility has been gnawed at from my first post onward, with only 2-3 players believing me to be town (and these 2-3 players have had their credibility attacked as well), so my scum hunting (ex, my wagon analysis) is pretty much a waste of time (not to mention how the players that came up have had NO credibility issue of their own). I still like to do it to assess its continued effectiveness at catching scum.

If you lynch me, you'll see I'm town, and maybe then you'll give credence to my wagon analysis.

Let's face it; I am CONVINCED that at least two of PlumPom/Spyrex/Mike/Papa-Zito are scum. Have any of these players received more than the tiniest smattering of suspicion? They are among the LEAST suspicious players on the roster. So here I am, "public enemy #1", I'm not going to convince anyone that these players are scum, except posthumously. Right? Right......

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB did you leave out Sera sans 1315 or was it on purpose.

I'm not sure what you're referring to...

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh I see... that's a clerical error.

Mike/mith/PZ

should indeed read:

Mike/mith/PZ/Seraphim

[DrippingGoofball]

ah, yeah, PZ is now iamausername.

Personally I'd rather lynch higher up on the wagon totem pole than Mike, but maybe the best would be to iso PlumPom/Spy/Mike/Seraph. I have town reads on mith and IAUN.

I may do it later tonight. Anyone can feel free to beat me to it, though.

[DrippingGoofball]

That's all you have to say about it? A "clerical error"? I mean, you spent a fairly significant period of D2 trying to lynch Seraphim. Even if you changed your mind later, I'd think that if you'd actually had legitimate suspicion of him previously, his name would stand out to you when he showed up with a high score on your votecount analysis.

Yes, that's what it was, is a clerical error. When I do the wagon analysis, I don't let the names bias me. I omitted Seraphim's name from the tally in my haste. Besides, he turned out to be in the crowded middle pack, but I wouldn't have noticed since I neglected to add up his numbers.

Are you going to make a case that it was scummy? What was the point of that criticism?

[DrippingGoofball]

Mith, trying to turn me on to DGB is useless. I already think she is scum.

I suspect he's making fun of my results because my top suspects have come under little suspicion, or no suspicion at all (like yourself).

Even Elli wants to vote players that are lower on the wagon-scum-scale so...

[DrippingGoofball]

Sorry, no time to iso as promised... maybe tomorrow.

The rest of you could do a few iso's, it wouldn't kill you, you know...

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB town:
Mith scum.

Hiya scummy moonbeams,

DGB town:
Mith town.

How 'bout this woooosh

[DrippingGoofball]

God this game has exploded with awesome. This is swinging!

Hey Fate/KMD/various-members-of-rage-krew

We lynch Plumpom or Spyrex. REFERENCE: wagon analysis. How about that.

VOTE: Plumpom

DREAMS CAN COME TRUE

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm really struggling to identify scum in this game. Right now, I've got Spy and Ellibereth as my top 2. [...] leaving just plumpom as potential scum.

My top two are Spyrex and Plumpom, are we ready to negotiate their surrender?

[DrippingGoofball]

...GOD DAMN IT ELLIE IF YOURE GOING TO NINJA ME VOTE

OOBA

/PLUM AT LEAST

PLZ

Wagon analysis Elli... it's the BIBLE!!!

[DrippingGoofball]

WHAT AN APT NAME FOR A MISLEADING GUIDELINE THAT POINTS TO YOURSELF AS #3 SCUMPICK, AND IGNORES DAY PLAY.

Touché

Except I know my alignment, I trust the method, I I'm also pretty sure Rhinox is town even though he's high up as well.

[DrippingGoofball]

...AND I INVOKED THE NAME OF GEARS OF WAR.

HERE WE GO

[DrippingGoofball]

Huzzah!

[DrippingGoofball]

but would anyone be down for an ellibereth lynch instead?

No distractions please.

[DrippingGoofball]

1. What is the reasoning behind your ranking system in this game? For example: Why did you choose the vote counts you chose, what is the rationale behind X scum being on each wagon, etc.?

I like a clear wagon happening, a few middling wagons are much harder to interpret.

2. How does the system you've used here compare to previous games? For example: The ranking here appears to focus more on those off wagons, only uses end-of-day vote counts, and has a different scoring system. Why the changes?

The whole premise of the wagon analysis is that scum doesn't put all their eggs in the same basket. HOWEVER, I'm coming to the realization that scum is more likely to be on the leading wagon, to an extent that looking at off-wagon players is less informative than concentrating on on-wagon players. Also, looking at both, I end up with the situation that P{scum-on-wagon} + P{scum-off-wagon} = 1 so looking at both, the information cancels out. But with the premise that there is more scum on-wagon rather than off-wagon (say, P{scum-on-wagon} = 0,6 and P{scum-off-wagon} = 0,4 - looking on-wagon is more effective.

3. Explain the inconsistencies in the total scores, vs. the wagons posted. For example: It seems clear that you've given Rhinox 3 points for the Hoopla wagon, the ooba wagon, and the zoraster wagon. It's not so clear where Kmd's points come from.

KMD shouldn't be there, actually, I started out adding up his points, then I realized, ah, yeah, he's confirmed town, and I forgot to erase his name and the points.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB: So, if the whole premise is that scum don't put all their eggs in the same basket, why would you then "call the scum team" with four players who were all on the very first wagon you included in your analysis?

Are you doing this on purpose???

It's not 100% accurate. Right? You knew that. Right? As we lynch and as players are NK'd, we have their alignment. Every time we have more information, the analysis becomes more accurate.

[DrippingGoofball]

...because the point system is mathematically naive.

It's doesn't have to be complicated, it has to be EFFECTIVE. And effective it is.

[DrippingGoofball]

Fate you ought to be ashamed to fuel a wagon where SPYREXscum has been sitting alone for the longest time waiting your some player to have FruitSisters cold feet.

[DrippingGoofball]

FATE

IT'S THE PAINKILLERS

They are clouding your judgment.

[DrippingGoofball]

Ugh. We're gonna work on a post together soon, but... ugh. I'm so confused an behind in this game.

^^^
C'mon gaiz

The I'm-confused-and-behind defense...

I'm so disappointed...

This being said I'll be around to help an ooba lynch, I don't think ooba is scum, but I can't say that I'm getting town vibes from him either.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm not scum, so

VOTE: ooba

[DrippingGoofball]

GO GO GO

VOTE: Plumegranate

[DrippingGoofball]

Shall I claim? We're running out of time and I'm town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Read my sig and all, I have to make supper and I have badminton but I promise I'll be back later tonight.

[DrippingGoofball]

Anything more than town to claim DGB?

Shall I?

[DrippingGoofball]

Yo, watching Hoarders (a sacred time).

Tracker here.

Tracked KMD night 1.
mith night 2.

That's how I knew what KMD was up to.
And why I say mith is town (though not guaranteed).

Now can we lynch scum?

[DrippingGoofball]

works for me.

VOTE: ooba

[DrippingGoofball]

Was KMD even remotely sounding like a roleblocker??? Obv is obv.

[DrippingGoofball]

What I'm wondering about is oobascum optimal play is to CC you and cause mayhemz4town, so Im hemmawwin on whether we should just lynch plumpom

wut

wut's CC?

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh yeah, CC, counterclaim. Brain is mush.

[DrippingGoofball]

WHAT I WANNA HEAR FROM FIRST:

mith
You got splaiinin to do.

What specifics do you want from mith?

[DrippingGoofball]

Goodnight for now...

[DrippingGoofball]

NO WAI

Have you guyz lost your collective minds????????????

This is unacceptable. Come on... where are the townies... Rhinox and Seraphim are scum for sure now, they are confirmed scum with Plum. Come to your senses. I may not have played a perfect game but this is an outrage.

[DrippingGoofball]

Oooooo look at the scumbags crawling out of the woodwork to lynch the tracker... thanks for giving the vig an obvious choice.

[DrippingGoofball]

IF MY DEATH ISN'T AVENGED THERE WILL BE WURDZ.

[DrippingGoofball]

Excellent deduction, my dear Watson.

[DrippingGoofball]

UR GONNA PAY FOR this FruitSister!

[DrippingGoofball]

I DEMAND, REQUIRE AND CLAMOR for explanations for the votes post-claim.

I want to see scum trip on their shoelaces and being hung with them later.

[DrippingGoofball]

DrippingGoofball, Ellibereth, PokerFace, HackerHuck. Too easy?

Yeah, totally, take your scumdar to the shop, the spinning mechanisml needs to be stabilized.

[DrippingGoofball]

mith is incrediscum right now.

HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT

[DrippingGoofball]

Fate I did not lie to you.

You know what to do.

Avenge me with the focused anger of the samurai!

[DrippingGoofball]

ooba (2) -- Ellibereth, DrippingGoofball
Plumegranate (5) -- HackerHuck, AdumbroDeus, PokerFace, Fate, Kmd4390

Town players in this group; read DGB's posts on page 53, ask yourself if they make any sense coming from powered town. Drop that hammer.

And another scum...

[DrippingGoofball]

Why should I vote Whinox????

[DrippingGoofball]

Seriously I need my head examined... or at least my driver's license revoked.

Or I was blinded with his fake towniness and buddying up to me.

VOTE: Rhinox

[DrippingGoofball]

<3

[DrippingGoofball]

What is as good for you all as it was for me?

*good times*

[DrippingGoofball]

^5

[DrippingGoofball]

More like last minute making up and partying!

Can I pour you a drink?

[DrippingGoofball]

Will you forgive me if I let you have it?

[DrippingGoofball]

vanilla scum. 4 U

[DrippingGoofball]

I'd like to remind everyone that the top 3 players in my vote analysis were indeed scum. But noooooooooo you wouldn't listen to me.

[DrippingGoofball]

We didn't want players to realize there were TWO vigs, so that a tracked vig had a good chance of being a free lynch for us. There were also chances of counterclaiming which would have been useful to us.