Open 238: Trendy and Subversive Game Over

[TeeJay]

what happened to my post? As I was saying before the internet so rudely interrupted.

Gonanno: Admits he will be lurking. Also semi-quotes his pm. I can't believe he would do that... Add he broke the game.

FOS: Gonanno

Sawyer is not Mafia, nor is he townie, he is a criminal, wait, cop. He is innocent.

Podium tells us that he has hypersomnia and refuses to add anything useful to the game until he wakes up. Great, another lurker.

FOS: Podium

Mallow is a Hypocrite. He lies and yet calls Gonnano a liar.

Millar votes Mallow for NO Reason. *Gasps*

Major RV FOS: Millar

. As if RV and Major fit in the same category.

[TeeJay]

If I am too deep, perhaps Oddin is too shallow .

Above post: Why shouldn't I be so quick to clear my scumbuddy?

Anyway, just dropping in.

[TeeJay]

TeeJay, you were quick to judge. Why not vote at all?

Just didn't feel like it. I didn't have a logical reason, so if that is what your looking for, I am sorry I cannot provide an answer.

Glad to see the game going again.

Unfortunately nothing new as of yet. I will continue to check back today, but tommorrow I have a Linux programming quiz.

[TeeJay]

Wow, defensive rather quickly. Considering that this is only the second page, I find it disturbing that you were so quick to become defensive.

[TeeJay]

"Seriously" accuses you?

I don't think anything was 'serious' until you reacted the way you did.

I could be wrong, but those are my thoughts. Keep on going if you'd like, but you are digging your grave rather quickly.

[TeeJay]

When I say serious, I mean lynching serious, not out of RVS serious. No, I don't what to rethink my statement. And honestly, I am not a script writer, so I could careless how cheesy my statements are.


Millar thinks that "'generally' only scum dispute something that much". What do I think of that? I wouldn't say that it's a scum tell, but that's just me. The fact that he voted because of it doesn't send any flags up due to the facts that a) that is the only vote against you, and b) It's early in the game.

What I will make note of is this:

1.) You have immediately gotten defensive after one vote was cast your way. At the very least that your antsy.

2.) On top of that, you had a text book example of an OMGUS vote toward millar.

3.) You attempt to draw attention away from yourself by asking my opinion of millar's actions.

I won't hold reason #3 against you too much because everyone does it. I will give you a piece of advice though, if I have an opinion worth speaking of, you won't need to ask what it is.
I am not one for keeping silent. There are cases in which I am still contemplating things and thus have not added input, but otherwise, you shouldn't have to ask.

So the sum of my post is this. You look scummy.

[TeeJay]

What does timing and the number of votes on me have to do with whether or not something is a legitamate/BS reason?

A lot, case in point, RVS.
Also, Podium, please quite telling me to comment on things, if I have something to say, I'll say it. I don't need you forcing me to give a word.

As to your response to my first point, your vote was still OMGUS.

Your response to the third... regardless, you were attempting to draw attention away from yourself.

To mallow, I haven't voted yet, I assume you mean someone else. Second, do you really think contradicting oneself is scummy enough to warrant a vote? If it was coupled with more info, maybe. The reality is, considering that most posts by a person are made at different times, those posts will naturally be made in a
different frame of mind, thus contradictions are bound to happen. the question is, what kind of contradiction is it. First off, the contradiction is about a definition of a word. Really? That is what you are concerned about?

I would also like to point out that I don't think the post was contradictory at all. I used the word serious in quotes, intending to imply that I still didn't think it was too serious. And just for the future, let me expand my definition of serious: Any vote that is not RVS or weighted by other votes.

Considering it was the first vote, woopdi-do. Considering the context, I still believe the vote was semi-RVS.

So let the arguments ensue.

[TeeJay]

Let me put this in a different light podium.

I don't think the vote was serious enough to warrant the reaction you gave. You over reacted. Furthermore, I still believe that the vote against you was slightly RVS, after all, policy votes are hardly worth any weight. The post you continue to quote has a serious with quotes on it, like this: 'serious'. Recognize it?

Alright, I apologize for poking fun. My point is that the 'serious' mentioned in that sentence was meant as an iffy serious as in "not so serious - seriousness". Anyway, enough with semantics.

ODDin, I apologize for not answering your previous posts. I've been side-tracked by another conversation. It takes a lot to get me to vote, I am cautious, maybe even too cautious, but not cautiousness that stems from scummieness, but one that stems from not wanting to lynch the wrong guy. As to why I didn't RVS, sometimes I do, other times I don't, I really don't have a logical reason for the inconsistency.

As to my previous games, this is my first game under TeeJay. I used to be TylerJ, but I hadn't played in a year and forgot the password, and unfortunately, my email was also hacked into. So, here I am with a new account. I have asked the Administrators to delete my old account as I will no longer be using it. No I do not use two running accounts if that is what you are wondering.

[TeeJay]

WOW! A lot has happened in a day. Sorry ODDin, I don't feel like searching for the threads, but If you look at my TylerJ wiki, you can find the names to the threads on that (I'm kinda lazy sometimes).

Podium, you posed some questions at me, but are merely repeats of questions already asked.

What I find interesting is Podium's hesitancy to claim after several times of being told he ought to. I, or pretty much any townie, would have already claimed.

ODDin, I very much would like to hammer, but before I do, I would like to wait for Sawyer and (I forget his name) to post. I will give it a day, and see what happens.

Podium, please claim.

[TeeJay]

Podium, please claim.

There's no need for a claim. 2 of the people voting me have only made 3 posts in this entire game. The third hasn't contributed much more. Are you really prepared for our first lynch to head to the gallows based on those votes, and a hammer?

Valid Point. This day has gone by quickly, And in all honesty, maybe too fast. Being a few hours removed from the heated discussion has seemingly cleared my head a little.

I will reread your latest post as it was quite lengthly.

[TeeJay]

Now that I reread your post, my thoughts:

The bulk of your scumminess lays in the mood of your posts. Angry reactions in Mafia are actually quite common, I am not concerned so much about your reaction as I am about how quickly you reacted. Typically, I see people who react the way you did after the about three votes on them, whereas you only had one. The fact that you gave an OMGUS vote doesn't help the case.

[TeeJay]

Podium, While OMGUS isn't a rock solid indication, it never helps the case. I am not basing my believe that you are scum on that alone.

[TeeJay]

I admit it is too early to lynch.

It's in this respect that I also think TJ is tunneling quite hard toward you.

Tunneling... Now that you mentioned it, I'll be honest, I have. The

quite hard

part is indirectly stating that I was intentionally doing so (you may or may not mean that). This I disagree with, the only reason why I have only gone against him is because, simply put, no one else has done something that in my mind is worth noting.

Furthermore, I would like to indicate that I am not the only one that would be guilty of tunneling, Oddin would be a good candidate (maybe even more so) as well.

[TeeJay]

In my opinion, Day one lynches where it isn't mylo should be used as follows:

-Lynch an unhelpful player-Why have a player that isn't contributing squat stay in the game? If they aren't contributing now, what makes you think they will contribute when it really counts on lylo? If you keep them till lylo, then you will be questioning them with little response, making them look scummy (whether they are or aren't scum).

Therefore

unvote, vote millar

I hardly find that helpful.

I would add oddin and teejay into this as well (teejay also expressed willingness to hammer, here). As scum, finding out peoples roles during the day is a huge benefit. So the more people you get to L-1, the better. Claims are insanely important information, more so to mafia, than to town. Both oddin and teejay asked me to claim, and i find that really suspicious... as they strike me as players that should know better. i actually consider pressing for claims when it isn't really necessary a pretty strong scumtell. teejay is now giving a different story and agreeing with myself and sawyer... but not sure i believe that he wouldnt have realized that earlier.

i would expect town to have the same reaction as sawyer did, especially after i made note of the players that were on me. and to piggyback on that, sawyers reaction really does look town. if he was scum, he could easily have said that i still looked suspicous, and given the go ahead for someone to hammer. After all, there were 3 people that thought i was scum and 2 had said they wanted to hammer. i dont see scum abandoning that opportunity.

I was willing to hammer. I had gotten done reading a heavily heated debate between Oddin and you and was caught up in the excitement of it all. After a few hours of removing myself, I found that it wasn't an intelligent idea because of the fact that you were the only one that had been really evaluated, and because it was only page 4. It was a pathetic action, of which I have no argument other than getting caught up in the action.

Pertaining to getting you to claim, again, this was said in the context of a heated debate, ruled by emotion rather than logic. I had no intent on getting anything for Scum, I was fully intent in lynching on Sunday when I had posted.

This is not to say that I'm no longer suspicious of you, rather, I would like to take a look at others before I make my final decision.

[TeeJay]

I had no intent on getting anything for Scum, I was fully intent in lynching on Sunday when I had posted.

Alright, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Here is an edited version:
I wasn't fishing for information. I wanted you to claim because I was fully intent on lynching you come Sunday.

[TeeJay]

Wow, I just reread everything and found something worth noting.

Mallow:

0 post:
Vote the liar, gonnano

2nd post:
unvote, Vote ODDin

3rd post:
unvote
Fos Gonn Just a gut feeling. And I don't wanna waste my lynch on a random vote.

6th post:
Vote ODDin

7th post:
unvote, vote TeeJay

Post 12:
vote podium

Post 13:
unvote, vote millar.


6 votes and 1 FOS in 13 posts. Warranted, one was a typo.

His Reasons?

Voted Oddin for his comment to me about me looking too deeply too early

FOS'ed Gonn for Gut feelings

Voted me because he agreed with Podium made a great case and because I "contradicted myself". To which, he later removed his vote and said that he misunderstood.

Voted Podium because (Now this is the Kicker): "That puts him at L-1. I'd also like to hear from our inactive townies before the hammer." His only analysis on Podium was:

Now that you mention it ODDin, he has been AtEing a lot:

A. It wasn't

ME

that almost killed the game, it was gonnano... for quoting an ongoing game.

B. Gonnano accused me of being scum based on his (incorrect) notion that i was acting differently in this game... i disputed that. And here you are telling me that i am scum for disputing that? Really? What was i supposed to do, just agree with him and lynch myself?

Your vote on me is weak, incorrect, and generally not well thought out. Seems very scummy.

Wow, defensive rather quickly. Considering that this is only the second page, I find it disturbing that you were so quick to become defensive.

??

If someone seriously accuses you of being scum, then what is wrong with defending yourself... regardless of if it's page 1 or 21?

I'm 'disturbed' that you are more concerned with my justified response, than with his seemingly scummy accusations/vote.

Lol I found this one very funny:

Again, i ask you... how was my defense an overreaction? ?? What should i have done?? Agreed with him??

^overreacting when he's trying to say he wasn't overreacting

Overall analysis: Scum

I hardly find that a good analysis.

He also votes for millar because he is 'unhelpful'.

His only content could be found in:

You still didn't say why you're not voting, though.

This to me just seems scummy fmpov. Either you're:
A. trying to divert attention
B. genuinely wanting an explanation

I'm leaning towards the former...

The first quoted post, and his last post.

You have to be kidding me.

vote: mallow

[TeeJay]

Okay then, I see things progressing nicely.

I think we've reaped enough from the podium thing for me to come clean: I wasn't intending to actually lynch you. I started off saying everything honestly, but as it went I, well, exaggerated somewhat for effect, to make it seem more like everybody's ready to lynch you right then and there. (Although in retrospect, asking you to claim might have been a little too much.)

I still keep my eye on you and still think you reacted a bit more harshly than necessary, but not quite as much as I made it look I thought.

But the whole affair wasn't for nothing, there's quite some benefit.

1) I'm pretty sure sawyer is town. He was voting for you and could've gone on with a really easy lynch, but instead chose to unvote and rethink his stance. I really like that.

2) I really don't like how teejay played through this. First he says he's ready to HAMMER, on page 4! But then he sees the wagon is waning and the wind is blowing elsewhere, and suddenly he buckles. Suddenly it's too early to lynch. It really looks like teejay is trying to go with what's popular. He saw that apparently podium was going down - and he was ready to hammer him. But then people are starting to hesitate, sawyer unvotes, and suddenly he remembers it's too early for a lynch and even admits he was tunneling... only to present a backhanded accusation against me in the process. Nice work there.
Then he moves to another easy target - even though now podium only has one vote on him, so if he considered podium so suspicious, why not place a vote there?

Millar and mallow are also playing horribly (or not playing at all), and will need to be removed, though I'd be hoping for replacements, myself. I don't think votes will help here.

So, yeah, my vote is right where it belongs.


P.S. Haven't had the time to look up teejay's older games yet. Will get to it now, I think.

So let me get this straight. You planned this wonderful sting operation and caught me red handed.

On what grounds are you basing your idea that I was going for what's popular? There was one vote on Podium when I started questioning him, hardly popular. There was little to no opposition (other than a small post from sawyer and Podium himself) to Podium being lynched when I backed off and cleared my head. You said that when I saw people were hesitating, I backed off. Question, who was hesitating?

My comment about you wasn't a back hand but was merely a question about an analysis on me.

Why am I not voting Podium, simple, he was already close to being lynched, my vote wont do much their. Furthermore, after reading up on millar, I find him to be a good candidate.

Enough about me.

While the 'Sting Op.' ploy sounds great, it reminds me of fast food. Looks good on the board, but once you get it, you wish you went somewhere else. The idea of bringing someone to L-1 for the sake of a ruse is highly unintelligent. It doesn't add up.

[TeeJay]

MOD: Request replacement

i honestly dont understand this game at all

What?

someone sees you as scummy and you high tale out of here?

[TeeJay]

TeeJay: See, you were accusing podium, but you didn't place a vote there. Throwing around accusations without actually voting is not dedicating yourself to a case. Scum will often do that, because you're playing and participating and scumhunting, and you also keep all doors open for you. If he flips scum - sure, you were accusing him. If he flips town - well, you were accusing him but you didn't actually vote for him. Either way, safe. You only expressed desire to vote when it seemed that everybody was along for that lynch - in that situation, even if he flipped town, no suspicion would fall on you, since everybody was there.
The moment it dies down, you turn elsewhere. From "ready to hammer" you moved to "not even important enough to vote for."

I have to tell you, I'm flattered that you think that I plan that in-depth. I haven't played in a year. Do you really think that I planned out a wishy-washy front? I would like to mention that your argument is hypothetical, and a theory at best (this is not to say that it ought to be dismissed, but that you'll need more than a hypothesis).

As an aside (and this may sound a bit WIFOMish): but the truth of the matter is, the last position I would want to take as scum would be a wishy-washy character. They get lynched too quickly.

I didn't place my vote on Podium because it would have lynched him. Something that, while it sounded great, was something I needed to at least think about.

As for me throwing around accusation without being committed... I have pointed out 2 people, one who was at L-1, and thus I didn't vote for, the other I voted for. In light of these facts, I don't really understand your statement that I am throwing around accusations w/o being committed.

[TeeJay]

[quote="Sawyer]

I didn't place my vote on Podium because it would have lynched him. Something that, while it sounded great, was something I needed to at least think about.

Uhhh...

ODDin,

I very much would like to hammer

, but before I do, I would like to wait for Sawyer and (I forget his name) to post
...
Podium, please claim.

Sounds like a contradiction to me.[/quote]

It's not. I did want to lynch him, but I needed to think about it before I did. Hence the second post saying that I would like to wait. Hence there not being a contradiction.

[TeeJay]

TeeJay: You started accusing podium when there was only 1 vote on him, but you didn't vote yourself. That's why I'm saying you weren't committed. You wouldn't have lynched him then, you would've just placed a second vote, but you didn't. You only expressed willingness to vote when he was at L-1. The way I interpret it is that you were only willing to vote when you saw everybody was okay with it and you wouldn't be blamed if it turned out podium was town.

And you didn't answer the following: you were practically ready to hammer podium. That means you *really* thought he was scum. But then, when the wagon on him died down, you moved to mallow. What happened to your suspicion of podium? After all, you can now vote for him safely, if you think he's the scummiest person around. Or do you think mallow is scummier than podium?

At the time I started accusing podium he was not suspicious enough for me to warrant a vote. As the arguments ensued, my mind changed. This has nothing to do with commitment. It was when he was at L-1 that I found him suspicious.

I would like to mention that you did the same thing as your accusing me of in the second paragraph.

[TeeJay]

At the time I started accusing podium he was not suspicious enough for me to warrant a vote. As the arguments ensued, my mind changed. This has nothing to do with commitment. It was when he was at L-1 that I found him suspicious.

Convenient, and I don't really believe you, but possible.

I would like to mention that you did the same thing as your accusing me of in the second paragraph.

I explained my actions - you're free not to believe my explanation, but I provided one. You did not.
Also, there's no accusation in the second paragraph to begin with, that's the way YOU interpret it. I just asked you to explain your stance on podium and how and why it changed. Curious that you choose not to answer.

It was the second page when I posted my accusations (maybe first, I have to check again). Hardly enough time to figure him out (I know pg 4 isn't a whole lot better). I don't know why you would believe otherwise. My statements were made to poke at the coals to see if anything would ignite (which is exactly what happened).

Crap. Part of my post was deleted. Just a sec.

[TeeJay]

I explained my actions - you're free not to believe my explanation, but I provided one. You did not.
Also, there's no accusation in the second paragraph to begin with, that's the way YOU interpret it. I just asked you to explain your stance on podium and how and why it changed. Curious that you choose not to answer.

I somehow deleted my response. Here it is again:

I have explained my actions. post #135, #152, and #161. As to the answer your recent question, I accidently deleted that. I still believe Podium to be scummy but found that my vote would be even more useful on Mallow considering that Podium has already been pressured. This is merely a rehash of what was already written.

So you are saying that people dont respond to a scum accusation until they have about three votes? Sorry, i dont believe that. As a matter of fact, from my experience, NOT responding to it would result in people accusing the accused of avoiding the issue.

There are 2 reasons why I didn't respond to you. 1) I thought I already had so I ignored you because I hate repeating myself. 2) Because I never said that you shouldn't respond. This is what I have been saying:

I am not saying that people should ignore accusations. I never said that nor would I. What I am saying is that most people would not react the

way

you did.

[TeeJay]

It was too defensive, which is why I prodded you. To see if there was anything there.

[TeeJay]

You seemed over-eager to jump on podium because of his reaction to millar-the-game killer.

I hope you aren't wanting me to argue about an impression you had.

Though I would like to note that I did not jump on podium initially. I prodded him to see if I could get a reaction. It wasn't until he got into an argument with Oddin that I actually got suspicious.

Mallow, can you actually scum hunt, Please. Enough of this -I'm a noob - junk. (Sorry if that sounds a little too edgy).

Gonanno - Although I am on Sawyer's hot seat, I have to be honest, he is one of the last players I would consider Scummy. The truth of the matter is, he has more reason to vote for me than you have reason to vote for him.

It's not. I did want to lynch him, but I needed to think about it before I did. Hence the second post saying that I would like to wait. Hence there not being a contradiction.

Maybe, but I see no indication that the reason you needed to "think about it" due to our opinions. I doubt our opinions would change your mind about Podium. If you said you would "very much like to hammer", that says to me that you are pretty sure about this lynch and your opinion is rather strong about it.

...and I like even less that

he has done nothing about his scum reads

at this point, when we should be getting into the real meat of the game.

What do you mean by the bolded?

I didn't need to think about it due to others opinions. I wanted to wait, and thought that in the mean time, it would be great to hear from the rest of the players.

[TeeJay]

I didn't need to think about it due to others opinions. I wanted to wait, and thought that in the mean time, it would be great to hear from the rest of the players.

I'm pretty sure that proves it was a contradiction. So you just wanted to hear other opinions, but that's not related to you needing to think about it. So if we look back at the quotes and act like that wasn't there...

ODDin,

I very much would like to hammer

...
Podium, please claim.

I didn't place my vote on Podium because it would have lynched him. Something that, while it sounded great, was something

I needed to at least think about.

In that case, it's a clear contradiction, because you never mentioned (as far as I can see) that you needed to think about it, just that you wanted to hammer. Meaning you wanted to lynch him.

Your not listening. I wanted to hear from others input, not to decide the vote, but to see what they had to say. And yes, you are right, I didn't post anything about wanting to think about it. But I didn't think I would have to.

So TeeJay, telling podium "You look scummy" on the bottom of page 2 was before you actually got suspicious? My intepretation was "look scummy" = "suspicious," but I'll take your word for it for the moment because it's semantics.

Unvote: TeeJay

Simply put, yeah, I prodded him.

[TeeJay]

That's the problem. You said "I would very much like to hammer" and when you say that and nothing else that indicates you want to think it over, that says you want to lynch him.

Alright, I know we can continue this indefinitely, so I would like to cut this short. Let's just agree to disagree.

Going back to reread the thread. Then, I am going to a big garage sale, (about 3 blocks long).

[TeeJay]

Gonanno - Also wanted to hammer Podium. Out of all of the people he could have voted for, he chose Sawyer. Peculiar move that wasn't backed up with a whole lot of evidence.

Mallow - Already did a read on him. I'll skip for now.

Oddin - His claim that the debate against Oddin was a sting operation is unbelievable. He was also among those who wanted podium to claim.

Podium - Despite my impressions of him earlier, he seems to be town. His recent posts are a lot more calm and collected, and he has actually gotten into scum hunting.

Sawyer - Was V/LA for a while, but came back full force. I don't really have much to say other than that he has a townie vibe that is generated from his scumhunting (albeit, incorrect analysis).

Tazaro - Too early to tell, but I am very thankful that he replaced.

Me- I'm innocent .

This wasn't the most in-depth post, but I'm wanting to leave to go buy some garages . With my above analysis, I find the following to be worth an

FOS:

Gonanno - this is slight, but still worth mentioning.

Mallow -read my earlier post on him.

Oddin - Need I say more.

[TeeJay]

I would agree with Podium. We have what we need to start voting. I have said what I needed to say, Oddin has said what he needed to say.

I know that I am in the lead in votes, but if we don't start making decisions now, we risk slowing down the game even more.

There are 2 things I would like to add though. First, Mallow needs to respond to the accusations given to him. Three people (me, podium, and Oddin) have discussed issues concerning him, and he has not addressed any of them ( I might have missed a post). Second, I am not saying we should start lynching, only that we should start voting. If a lynch is in order, then so be it.

[TeeJay]

Dude, Taz, your as bad as mallow.

[TeeJay]

(&49! Not a whole lot to say. To pick things up, I suggest 2 things. First, start by doing a Player-by-Player analysis (I've already done so). And vote (I would be willing to vote for either Oddin or Mallow.

[TeeJay]

Crap, my other post was never created. Essentially, I agree with Oddin, vote for one of us, but include mallow too.

I don't have much else to say as I would be defending on peoples interpretations of what I wrote.

[TeeJay]

To even the score:

vote: Oddin

That leaves us with one more deciding vote.

Taz, I agree with Oddin, if you were scum, I can't see you doing what you are doing. Nevertheless, to put it lightly, you suck.

[TeeJay]

Just checking in. Still not much to say. It's either Oddin or me. Just to let you know Oddin is scum .

[TeeJay]

Are you serious. While someone did need to hammer, that sucked. The most wishy-washy person in the game, switches his vote, wonders if he hammered afterward, and then tells us he is out. What the crap?

Oddin, at the very least, had you gotten time to claim, I'm sure you would have been still in. Being that only seven people are in this game, you did overdo it. If there were more people in this game, you would have stood a better chance.

[TeeJay]

Alright. Just a heads up, Finals are this week, so the next few days will be spent writing essays. I will drop by from time to time and comment. Currently, I will give Orochi the better bit of a doubt, let him clean up the mess mallow made for him.

As an observation, I would like to note my speculation as to why scum would have voted Taz. At first, I thought it was odd. Reason being that he was so inconsistent and wishy-washy that he would have been an easy target for scum to lynch. On the other hand, he was also unpredictable, he shifted votes constantly much like mallow did. This makes me think that Scum was unnerved at this and thus killed him for his unpredictability.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. A re-read ought to be soon in coming.

[TeeJay]

To quote Podium "So if he wasn't going to use their input to influence his decision, his initial comment shows NO evidence of someone who is still unsure about his actions..." TJ then claimed the bolded. See any problem with it? Initially TJ seemed sure of his decision and it wasn't until after the fact that he tried to cover his tracks by saying "he didn't think he would have to". That's what makes it a contradiction. He never said anything about wanting to think about it until much later and because that's the case, there's nothing to keep us from thinking he contradicted himself in the first place.

So your assumption that I contradicted myself is based off of a theory.

Like I said earlier, finals are here and I am touching up on my last essay. Will be posting content when I am available.

Off to finish an essay about surfing the net at work. Crazy statistics.

[TeeJay]

NOTE: I am not necessarily stating that what teejay did here

is

or

is not

indicative of him being scum. I am showing that i feel sawyer is justified and accurate in the case that he has made against teejay, and that i dont feel that gonnano is justified and accurate about the case he is making against sawyer.

QFT. Although I disagree with Sawyers final conclusion, I understand his logic. I also agree with your assessment on Gonnano. I have more to say but want to make my final touches on my last essay. Will be back soon (at the latest, Monday).

[TeeJay]

Gonanno, when I said I agreed with Podiums assessment, I was referring to his "note" about how he doesn't thing you are justified in your analysis on Sawyer, that's it. Will you please reiterate and expand why it is that you think Sawyer is scum.

Orochi, please check in and post.

I am done with my finals but am exhausted from sitting at the computer and thus Don't want to do a reread today.

[TeeJay]

Essentially the argument has continued between Podium and Gonnano.

Podium - Haven't really thought much more about him being scum. His initial scumminess has worn off into simply an argumentative and defensive player.

Sawyer - He hasn't really seemed scummy the whole game. I have known 2 or 3 mafia members that gave off the aurora that Sawyer is now.

Gonanno- Continues to argue with Podium about me contradicting myself. Honestly Gonanno, this argument isn't going anywhere. I am actually getting conserned that you are attempting to buddy with me. I can argue my own case if I find that I need to. Currently everything that is being said are only reiterations, you and Podium are talking past each other.

The fact that you continue to tunnel Sawyer and at the same time argue my case for me in such away as to not get anywhere with game is drawing my suspicion.

Orochi - The person you replaced was mostly scummy for his rash voting and lack of content. Currently I will give you the better bit of a doubt though, as you cannot defend yourself against the actions of your predecessor.


As to your other questions:

2) Was I surprised by who was night killed, honestly not really. I've played enough games to realize that who is killed hardly ever lines up with my thinking (unless I am mafia). I gave my analysis of the vote at the beginning of day 2. I forget whether or not I mentioned this in the post, but the scum could have killed him to help continue the game as he asked to be replaced.

3) Looking at the person I am most suspicious of... I am still undecided about who I find scummier as no one is putting out any strong vibes. That being said, you and Gonanno are the two that are the most suspicious to me.

If Gonanno is scum:
He doesn't really talk much about you.
He's tunneling Sawyer.
He argues a lot with Podium.

That kind of leaves Podium out of the question. He could be attempting to distance himself from Sawyer (while trying to buddy with me). Or he could be avoiding you (Orochi) in hopes that no one notices you.

As far as you being scum - Due to the lack of content, I cannot begin to imagine who your partner in crime would be (at least through reading your posts).

[TeeJay]

You go first.

Srsly. What kind of comment is that.

[TeeJay]

The reasoning is that if the nurse claims, we get a clear today... which can improve our chances of lynching scum today. Due to the fact that the protecting role is kind of a dice roll at night, they really aren't that important to us in that aspect.

If we dont claim, and take someone to L-1, we risk the possibility of scum faking nurse. Then we would be left to choose between the two claims, and have to pick correctly to continue... a 50/50 chance of hitting scum with nobody clear. If nurse claims now, before anyone is at L-1, it is less likely that scum will counterclaim and we would have a 50/50 chance of hitting scum while knowing a clear.

I could go either way, i guess... i wish sawyer would return and weigh in on it.

The question is whether or not we should actually have the nurse claim. If the nurse does that, they are dead come night fall.

I tend to think about things in terms of roles, not alignment. Obviously you have only my word on this, though, so all I can say is that it makes more sense to me to consider possible night actions that a person might have when I am looking at their motivation for doing something.

Which gives the impression that you are role fishing.

[TeeJay]

As an aside, perhaps the best way to play this setup would be to have doc claim early, have nurse protect doc, and then force mafia to nurse hunt.

That leaves Podium out of the equation. LOL.

[TeeJay]

I will be VLA late Friday until Sunday.

I am hesitate but willing to Mass Claim.

[TeeJay]

It looks like we are mass claiming. Since I will be gone late Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I will go first.

Hard to believe, but:

Claim: Nurse

.

Last night I attempted to protect Sawyer as he was the least scummy person and has contributed a lot to this game.'

Before you all lynch me during the weekend, wait until I can discuss the questions that will undoubtedly come my way.

[TeeJay]

You got to be freaking kidding me! Orochi, counter-claimed. ROFL! That was the dumbest scum move I have ever seen!

I have to say Jen, I feel sorry for how badly he screwed things up for you.

Let's set the record straight. The fact that your role has been replaced so many times is very peculiar, I have to admit, that is really abnormal for scum.

That being said, each player had scumtells all their own.

Mallow himself voted like he had Turrets (I am not trying to make fun of the handicapped), and tried to pass it off a noob mistake.
Orochi went off and counter-claimed nurse, something that I am still puzzled about.

The only things you have going for you are that you are new, and your role has been changed about as often as I change my roles of toilet paper.


The arguments you made against me:
You mentioned that others don't believe me and that their gut says I'm scum. There really isn't much to say about this, but hardly enough to prove my scumminess.

As far as the whole case of Podium, honestly that is the biggest reason I am a target. One foul screw up I've been regretting ever since. The truth of the matter is, in post 45 I was simply attempting to get a reaction out of him, it was hardly early enough to warrant me being certain of anything. The "back-pedaling" as you put was simply me stating that I didn't hammer because I wanted to process my decision. There has been endless debate about whether or not I contradicted myself.

As to why I changed my vote from Podium, simple. I had gotten caught up in the argument between Podium, Oddin, and Myself so much that I had gotten trigger happy without stepping back to consider whether or not this was just a case of emotional frenzy and tunnel vision. After I stepped back, I realized that maybe he wasn't as guilty as I thought. I reread the forum and realized that Mallow had Turret's and lame excuses to boot. Being as he was not in danger of being lynched I prodded him with a vote. I was in no way trying to change the subject, as you put it, I was simply widening my vision since I had been so focused on Podium.

And as far as me not backing it up with a vote, it was pg. 2, if I remember right. Woopdi-freaking-do.

As far as: "he sticks around long enough to make sure people are into it, then vanishes, only reappearing to stir the pot some more."
The truth of the matter is I really don't think that in-depth, the reality is the reason I have my vanishing acts is because I took college courses during the summer and work at the school as well (so I don't get a summer).

Now the disclaimer you mentioned... It's speculation, that is it.

At the very least, since both of us are goners (if your lynched, and I am NK'ed), it has been a great game. I only feel sorry that you stepped into this mess.

[TeeJay]

Sorry, forgot to vote scum

Vote: Jenn

[TeeJay]

Sorry TeeJay, I know you're lying. It was a good play in claiming and naming a target, but basically you could have said anyone who was alive had been your target. It's ironic that you randomly picked the actual target. I can't believe you've made it this far, but I'm not in the game, so I got everything in pages rather than in posts. It was easier to see the entire tapestry that is your game that way. Have you counted how many times someone has brought up how suspicious they are of you (maybe not in those exact words, but in some form or fashion)? I don't know what black magic you have worked over them to convince them of your innocence, but it's good.

You should definitely vote TeeJay today for lying about being the nurse. He won't be NK'd, as Mafia don't suicide. He's led you on a merry chase, so you need to trust your instincts and eliminate the scum. And vote Gonnano tomorrow.

That was some crappy BS. It was a good play though.

Your arguments about the countless times people have been suspicious of me is irrelevant.

In a normal case it would be, but due to the fact that your role has had a highly limited amount of posting and an extreme amount of replacing, there isn't much there.

Let me put it into words that make a little more sense. This is a case against me and you. I have been highly active in this game (excluding this week) in terms of posts. Thus the amount of suspicious posts headed my way will be significantly higher than you and the people you replaced. The fact of the matter is that you got off of the hook because your role has been replaced twice and because none of your players were active, as a result, a lot less is going to be said about you.

[TeeJay]

Dude, Podium, the game is so close to being a complete loss, to vote for me because of Gonanno and his obvious buddying attempts is aggravating.

Gonanno's actions are highly indicative of scum trying to buddy up with town. Either that or he is a really lame towns person. I cannot imagine a sane mafia member being so obvious in his interactions with another person. This coupled with the fact that he has completely ignored the cases made against Jenn. Add to this the fact that he has tunneled on Sawyer, and you got obvious scum. Yet he is not my partner but Jenns.


Jenn, all of your arguments in your last 2 posts can and will be thrown right back at you. The fact is that YOU are lying. Had I not made the dumb mistakes I did earlier in the game you would have already been lynched and we would only be left with 1 mafia member left. Nevertheless, I sit here holding my breathe for a game that is so close to being a lose for town, all at your expense.

[TeeJay]

What has he done that's townie? (by the way, if TJ shows up I would like for him to answer this question as well)

Why is this your concern? Shouldn't you be looking for scum tells, rather than town tells? But I'm fine with the question either way.

TeeJay, why did you not answer the above question when you posted?

And will TeeJay and Jen please stop the back and forth "You're lying, I'm the real Nurse", "No, you're lying, I'm the real Nurse". It doesn't help at all, since that's not gonna convince anyone.

I didn't post my response because I missed the Q. Honestly, I find that a weird question. I have attempted to do my part in finding scum. Albeit, I will admit I feel I have spent more energy to prevent a mislynch in which I am the target.

Mod, out of curiosity, can we get a vote count ?

[TeeJay]

Dude, Podium, the game is so close to being a complete loss, to vote for me because of Gonanno and his obvious buddying attempts is aggravating.
Gonanno's actions are highly indicative of scum trying to buddy up with town. Add to this the fact that he has tunneled on Sawyer, and you got

obvious scum

. Yet he is not my partner but Jenns.

TJ... you are trying to convince me that gonnano is scum... if gonnano is scum and the game is still going, it means you are his partner...

Where in the world do you get your ideas. If your basing it off of the fact that he's attempting to buddy with me, your insane. I could hardly see the rational of 2 scum buddies shouting out to the town that they are a team. Clearly he's scum partners with Jen and is hoping to get everyone looking in my direction in case something goes foul.

[TeeJay]

I didn't realize she was at L-1 until after you hammered. We hadn't had a votecount for a while and I didn't catch when TJ voted her.

Hence me asking for a vote count. Your forgiven though.

Great game, and great partner. Podium, I have to say if I were you I would have made the same mistake.

To all, it was a great game and one of the few that I can honestly say didn't make any long time enemies (I hope).

As far as the QT, go ahead.

[TeeJay]

Podium, I have to say if I were you I would have made the same mistake.

Well... technically it was over when gonnano voted jenniwren, it was just prolonged a bit because sawyer wasn't paying attention to the votecount.

Had gonnano voted you, it would have still been a tough game for town to win in lylo. Sawyers behavior after we all claimed raised my attention a good bit, but his earlier play was pretty much mistake/susp. free. I'm always wary of players that haven't done anything scummy, but it's tough to say if that gut feeling would have over ridden gonnano's overall play.

Your right, the game was over. And as far as the players who don't do anything scummy, I agree. Often times I am suspicious of them, but such suspicion doesn't warrant an adequate vote.

And BTW, I'm sure it makes you feel a little easier about your day 1 "scuminess" seeing as how I was attempting to get a noose built for you. You played good.

In fact, everyone did. Scratch that, Mallow didn't. At first I screwed myself up, but at the very least, I was able to prevent myself from getting lynched day one, and almost escaping day 2. I don't know how I pulled it off though. I guess I would have Oddin to thank for that, but I still thought I was scummier. What I don't understand is why I wasn't lynched from the get go on day 2, especially after I claimed.

[TeeJay]

JMJ, I don't think there is anything to criticize, you did a good job. And thanks for having a dead QT, it was awesome.