Open 238: Trendy and Subversive Game Over

[ODDin]

millar: didn't get the "for throwing coins".

TeeJay is looking too deeply into things, me thinks. And also curiously doesn't place a vote, as if trying to be extra cautious.

vote: TeeJay

[ODDin]

You still didn't say why you're not voting, though.

[ODDin]

You still didn't say why you're not voting, though.

This to me just seems scummy fmpov. Either you're:
A. trying to divert attention
B. genuinely wanting an explanation

I'm leaning towards the former...

Diverting attention from what, exactly? In my very first post I said teejay didn't vote and said I didn't like it. Then teejay posted but didn't respond to it, so I pointed out he didn't respond. It's not like there was something to divert attention from.

* * *

I don't really like podium's behaviour prior to the lock. He talked as if there was no discussion and no thing to talk about and it was still RVS. However, there was a little exchange between teejay and myself, so if podium thought it's so bad there's no discussion and that we really need to generate some discussion, he could've at least express some opinion on that issue.

* * *

Policy lynch

Vote: podium123456

for almost killing the game

Don't like this. Policy lynches are generally not the greatest of ideas, and this one especially won't get us anywhere. It can't be a scum-tell since podium-scum didn't want the game to die any more than podium-town wanted it to.
So basically, this post serves to show "activity" without actually saying anything of value.

* * *

I don't like how teejay still doesn't vote. Looks like he's being a bit too cautious. Teejay, do you generally take your sweet time before you vote? If so, can you provide links to games where this happens? (Not ongoing ones, obviously)
Until this is explained, I'll keep my vote on him.

* * *

That being said, podium is being a little too defensive here. His reaction to millar was understandable, but his reaction to teejay is less so.

* * *

Mallow's play is... odd. He barely does anything, and when he does, it doesn't make any sense. Care to actually play the game?

[ODDin]

*facepalm*

You tell me i was justified in my reaction to millar. Therefore, teejays criticism of it was wrong. But when i try to tell teejay that his criticism was wrong, you criticise me for doing so.

another catch-22 for me.

It's behavioural. Yes, I agree with you on the basic notion that teejay was wrong. However, how you react to his accusation - even though I think it's a wrong accusation - seems too extreme to me. I get the feeling you're scared.

[ODDin]

Taken together with posts 49 and 51, yes, it feels rather extreme.

[ODDin]

TeeJay: I don't mind (or care) if you use two accounts. I just want meta of you being so cautious as town. Can you provide it? (I don't care if it's another user but still you) If not, I have no real reason to believe it's not cautious stemming from scuminess.

Podium: You're just making it worse. How you reacted to me showcases what I've said. You're so emotional and heated about this that it's amazing. Town tend to be handle their defense more calmly, because they know truth is on their side. You're just flipping out. Maybe you have meta that shows you reacting in a similar way when you were town?

[ODDin]

It's not only what you say, it's how you say it.
I will ask again, have you got meta of you reacting in a similar way when you were town?

[ODDin]

Okay then.

You being emotional and heated in response to me is mainly showed in this line:

What was i supposed to do?

Not

try to get him to understand it? And allow his incorrect criticism to stand? ???

This line reads to me in a broken, crying voice, mostly with the help of the 3 question marks at the end and the emphasised "not". Lots of question marks on the whole represent higher tones and more emotion put into the statement. (These are used in many other posts as well)
Again, it's a matter of how I read you and how I interpret your posts. Emotion is in the details and is subject to personal interpretation. This is why I'm asking you to provide other games where you were town and reacted in a similar manner. You've been on the site more than me, you should have at least one game where you were town and were under attack. I would've looked myself, but you haven't got a wiki page. If I see that this is simply the way you always react, I'll drop the argument.

The facts in the end are, well, very interestingly phrased. Interestingly to the point of being an argument against you on their own right. This, especially:

I made ONE post to teejay regarding his accusation (which i had to repeat because he didn't understand)

No matter how you look at it, you didn't make one post to teejay. You made five. Yes, I know you said in the parentheses you "repeated" it, but it's a very awkward way to put it.

And again, I'm not saying you shouldn't have reacted at all. I'm saying that the actual wording of your reactions reads to me very emotional and very heated - much more so than was necessary.

[ODDin]

Ah, ninja'd. Will look at that game.

[ODDin]

Well, I looked at that game and it was quite an interesting read, actually. You were also attacked there and were explaining yourself over and over again, but you come off much more collected, cool and self-confident in that game.
You'll probably insist on why, so here's why:
Almost no instances of multiple question marks
Trying to drop the issue several times
Saying things along the lines of "well, I've said what there is to say so do whatever you want with it"
Saying "*shrug*"
Even using some humour here and there

The signs of indifference and trying to drop the issue are very important. As town, you know you're town, and you don't want to hold the game on discussing yourself. You know you're innocent, so you don't feel so much need to explain your innocence. When you're scum, there's nothing more important than proving your innocence, and since it's incorrect, it's more difficult to prove, and thus scum don't want to just "leave it be" and "let everyone see for themselves", because they know that truth is against them.

[ODDin]

Let's not hurry with this, though. We're only on page 4.

[ODDin]

Almost no instances of multiple question marks

What!? Did you read the same game i did? Right at the beginning (page 3, i think) i made a post that had FOUR instances of multiple question marks ALONG WITH a question mark smiley.

Are ya kiddin me?

There were at the start, yes, but then you stopped.


Regardless, are you realising you're arguing over how I interpret your emotional reaction?

[ODDin]

I didn't read the game until the end, I read about 5 pages and got a certain very consistent impression. You have handled an attack on you in a very cool and controlled manner, while the way you handle it here doesn't seem cool and controlled.
The fact that you insist on this is seriously ridiculous. It's an impression I got. It's a subjective thing. I can't pinpoint every single phrase and every single smiley that makes me think this or that. It's an overall impression.
The correct townie response should have been to say "well, I'm not really that upset, I dunno" and let it be. Not continue discussing with me whether or not you're upset.

Regarding the last two paragraphs: You're an idiot, and I hope you didn't just kill the game for good.

[ODDin]

You do need to claim, though, seeing that pretty much everybody in the game except for you wants you lynched, or at least doesn't object.
That being said, I want to hear more from millar and sawyer before we hammer.
Also, teejay, you said you don't want to vote until you're sure. Are you still not sure? (Not trying to convince you either way, just asking.) Do you think we're ready to lynch?

[ODDin]

Please stop, this is getting embarrassing.

To the point, there are similarities (no shit, it's the same person), but your behaviour there seems MORE cool and controlled than your behaviour here does. It's a personal interpretation. I've read into it what I've read into it, and everybody else is entitled to read into it something else - I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. Your posts, on the other hand, are getting worse and worse. If you're town, I seriously suggest you learn to calm yourself down for future games, otherwise you'll just get yourself lynched a lot.

Now, claim.

[ODDin]

Yes, that post you linked to does look to me fairly cool and collected. I read it over twice. You're free to say otherwise.
Emotions and impressions can't be proved. I will read the whole of that game if you insist there's a major difference there.
As for that other game, I'm not saying what I'm thinking about it BECAUSE IT'S ONGOING, and thus I'm not intending to discuss it either way. If I do read it, and if it does change my opinion, it's going to be my private business that I won't share, unless that game ends before this one and it is still somehow relevant.

So, it's nice you're certain I'm scum. I take it gonnano, who also asked you to claim, must also be scum by that logic. Which would mean that the three players who put you at L-1 must all be town, so you might as well claim to them.

And your last post is just a huge pile of AtE.
If you're town, yes, I understand this is frustrating to you. Learn from this and get better for future games.
Same is true if you're scum, really.

[ODDin]

Okay, I read the rest of that game, and frankly, yes, it still feels much more controlled and cool than your behaviour here, even if pretty argumentative.
What you're failing to understand is that it isn't logic what we're talking about. Emotions aren't something you can prove and disprove. We're talking about how I interpret your emotions and your attitude. It can't be proven wrong, it's a matter of subjective interpretation. I interpret things in a certain manner. I urge everybody else to read all the relevant material (and NOT count on what I'm saying) and see for themselves if they agree with this interpretation or not. It's perfectly okay for two people to read the same text so that one will think it's heated and emotional and the other one will think it isn't. There isn't a distinct right and wrong here.
The fact that you continue trying to "disprove" my subjective interpretation is truly magnificent.
And it's not only the multiple question marks, you know. I mentioned them in an attempt to analyse my own interpretation and why I thought what I did.

BY THE WAY, here's something I said long ago and you never answered or addressed in any way:

I don't really like podium's behaviour prior to the lock. He talked as if there was no discussion and no thing to talk about and it was still RVS. However, there was a little exchange between teejay and myself, so if podium thought it's so bad there's no discussion and that we really need to generate some discussion, he could've at least express some opinion on that issue.

[ODDin]

Podium, regarding the question marks, in case there was a misunderstanding: what I meant was multiple question marks coming TOGETHER as a single punctuation sign, such as "??" and "???", not just many sentences ending with a single question mark.

Compare:

What is wrong with you? <- fairly calm

What is wrong with you??? <- bordering on hysterical

[ODDin]

I mentioned them again because I thought you didn't understand what I meant.
The post you linked to now does look heated and emotional, and it didn't escape my attention when I read the thread. But it was basically the only one in that vein. The rest, or most of the rest, were much calmer.

[ODDin]

Okay then, I see things progressing nicely.

I think we've reaped enough from the podium thing for me to come clean: I wasn't intending to actually lynch you. I started off saying everything honestly, but as it went I, well, exaggerated somewhat for effect, to make it seem more like everybody's ready to lynch you right then and there. (Although in retrospect, asking you to claim might have been a little too much.)

I still keep my eye on you and still think you reacted a bit more harshly than necessary, but not quite as much as I made it look I thought.

But the whole affair wasn't for nothing, there's quite some benefit.

1) I'm pretty sure sawyer is town. He was voting for you and could've gone on with a really easy lynch, but instead chose to unvote and rethink his stance. I really like that.

2) I really don't like how teejay played through this. First he says he's ready to HAMMER, on page 4! But then he sees the wagon is waning and the wind is blowing elsewhere, and suddenly he buckles. Suddenly it's too early to lynch. It really looks like teejay is trying to go with what's popular. He saw that apparently podium was going down - and he was ready to hammer him. But then people are starting to hesitate, sawyer unvotes, and suddenly he remembers it's too early for a lynch and even admits he was tunneling... only to present a backhanded accusation against me in the process. Nice work there.
Then he moves to another easy target - even though now podium only has one vote on him, so if he considered podium so suspicious, why not place a vote there?

Millar and mallow are also playing horribly (or not playing at all), and will need to be removed, though I'd be hoping for replacements, myself. I don't think votes will help here.

So, yeah, my vote is right where it belongs.


P.S. Haven't had the time to look up teejay's older games yet. Will get to it now, I think.

[ODDin]

Hmm, looked up tyler's old games , wasn't quite conclusive. In some games he's more cautious with his votes, in others he's less so (both as town).
But the argument I brought up in the previous post still stands.

[ODDin]

A bozo could have come out to hammer, sure. He'd be lynched the next day. That's why quicklynches on D1 aren't that much of a big deal. (Although I did mention we should be careful, because too quick of a hammer would've lost most of the info anyway)
And basically I kept it going until everyone responded. Specifically, I wanted sawyer's and millar's responses, which only came on page 6 (last thing I said against you was on page 5). I had a specific goal I wanted to reach, I didn't stop until I reached it.

As for the claim, it might have been too much, but you would be wise to notice that I wasn't the first to say ask for it. In my experience, after a claim has been asked for, it doesn't really matter how many more people ask for it - you either agree to claim or you don't. So when I saw gonnano asked for you to claim, I thought that it wouldn't really matter if I asked for it too, so I did, for the sake of credibility.

By the way, I wouldn't say you've really broken my case - I was self-consistent throughout. Specifically in regards to post 125, there is only ONE post in that other discussed game which looks heated, while the rest of the argument on the same issue (why you voted somebody, I think raj) was handled by you in a way which was more or less cooler than how you talked here. This is what I was basing my case on. Whether the difference is quite as strong as I claimed earlier or not is subjective, and there are other reasons why in truth I don't believe the difference is that great, but it was there for me to build a case on.

[ODDin]

P.S.

p.s. you were the mystery person i was referring to in my previous post.

That was pretty obvious.

[ODDin]

P.P.S. Of course I was insinuating I was ready for the hammer to fall and sending similar signals. That was the whole idea.

[ODDin]

Surely you understand how this looks from someone elses perspective. It doesn't make sense that if it was a ploy, and things had died down... for you to still continue to press ME...

especially

when we had already been through the wringer. You had already made up your mind on me, and were waiting for sawyer millar (so you say) so why the unprompted post to keep arguing with me about '???'. There would be no need for that if you were only waiting to hear from millar/sawyer. It isn't logical.

I understand how it may look, and I'm not really blaming you for suspecting me. I would too. I'm just explaining my move.
I didn't want the attention to shift from you before sawyer and millar showed up - otherwise it wouldn't have helped anyone. The point was to see how people react to a situation when somebody's about to get lynched so early. That's why I kept posting while I was here - to keep the fire going.

First of all, numbers can influence players. Secondly (back to my main point) if you were town, you would have known that me claiming was the WRONG move for town at the time... even more so since you didn't want me lynched. Town reacts like sawyer did, you did exactly the opposite... twice.

Once again, gonanno has already asked you to claim. Me saying "no, don't claim" would have ruined the whole thing - not even teejay has responded by that point, and so the whole affair would've gained nothing. So my options were to ignore the claim issue altogether or second it. If what you're saying is that I should've discarded that whole effort just to prevent you from claiming - perhaps, but I still think we gained a lot of info that way.

As i said, if you really are town, you played exactly opposite how

they

should.

(Emphasis mine)
Okay, maybe it's just me, but I don't tend to refer to a group I'm a part of with "they"... Ahem...

More fail. If you are town, and dont feel the person at L-1 should be lynched... then you SAY something. You did exactly the opposite. You egged it on... sent out the signal. So what happens... someone holding back sees that other players are calling for the hammer, and they post and hammer.

...oh and maybe you'll rebut with that other top notch argument that you brought up earlier 'we can learn a lot from a quicklynch hammer'. Duh. The problem is that you were willing to let someone you didnt think was scum be lynched, just to see who hammered. Town doesnt do that.

I don't mind you thinking that I lied about the whole ploy thing and invented it in retrospect - I can respect that. But you could at lest try to understand how such a ploy should have worked in theory, in the hipothetical case it was actually there (which is what I'm claiming).
The idea was to bring somebody (in this case, you) to the doorstep of lynching fairly early and see everyone's reaction. There were two things that could have happened:
1) Somebody would've hammered you. In this case, it would almost certainly mean that somebody is scum, and thus we would've traded scum for town. A good deal for town on D1.
2) You wouldn't get lynched at that point, and we'd instead gain some valuable info. Also good. (This is what actually happened)

So first of all, it's not that I didn't think you were scum in the sense that I was (or am) certain you're town - I was (and am) suspicious of you, just not badly enough to lynch you.
Second, town will certainly get somebody lynched just to see who scum is. As I said, it's a usually good deal for town, especially on D1. Even trading a PR for scum is often a good idea, especially in this setup where there are backups.

[ODDin]

Podium: I can accept that perhaps I should've scrapped it in favour of you not claiming. I don't think it's that clear cut, but okay. Other than that, you're basically accusing me of being a good acor.

TeeJay: See, you were accusing podium, but you didn't place a vote there. Throwing around accusations without actually voting is not dedicating yourself to a case. Scum will often do that, because you're playing and participating and scumhunting, and you also keep all doors open for you. If he flips scum - sure, you were accusing him. If he flips town - well, you were accusing him but you didn't actually vote for him. Either way, safe. You only expressed desire to vote when it seemed that everybody was along for that lynch - in that situation, even if he flipped town, no suspicion would fall on you, since everybody was there.
The moment it dies down, you turn elsewhere. From "ready to hammer" you moved to "not even important enough to vote for."

Also, you should be happy for millar's replacing out. I am. He wasn't playing and wasn't paying attention at all. It wasn't even active lurking, it was just lurking and not participating. I don't think it's indicative of alignment - both town and scum do that (sadly). So having and active and participating player here instead will help, and we won't need to lynch a player just because he isn't doing anything.

[ODDin]

mallow: I don't get it. Do you still think podium is scum or not?
If you do, why have you unvoted? After all, your vote is the only vote on him right now, so he's in no imminent danger of being lynched.
If you don't... why and when have you changed your mind?

[ODDin]

Oops. My bad.

[ODDin]

TeeJay: You started accusing podium when there was only 1 vote on him, but you didn't vote yourself. That's why I'm saying you weren't committed. You wouldn't have lynched him then, you would've just placed a second vote, but you didn't. You only expressed willingness to vote when he was at L-1. The way I interpret it is that you were only willing to vote when you saw everybody was okay with it and you wouldn't be blamed if it turned out podium was town.

And you didn't answer the following: you were practically ready to hammer podium. That means you *really* thought he was scum. But then, when the wagon on him died down, you moved to mallow. What happened to your suspicion of podium? After all, you can now vote for him safely, if you think he's the scummiest person around. Or do you think mallow is scummier than podium?

[ODDin]

At the time I started accusing podium he was not suspicious enough for me to warrant a vote. As the arguments ensued, my mind changed. This has nothing to do with commitment. It was when he was at L-1 that I found him suspicious.

Convenient, and I don't really believe you, but possible.

I would like to mention that you did the same thing as your accusing me of in the second paragraph.

I explained my actions - you're free not to believe my explanation, but I provided one. You did not.
Also, there's no accusation in the second paragraph to begin with, that's the way YOU interpret it. I just asked you to explain your stance on podium and how and why it changed. Curious that you choose not to answer.

[ODDin]

Grah idk who to believe anymore >.<

The answer is "nobody". It's a mafia game. You shouldn't trust anyone but yourself. Use your brain, read the game and think for yourself who is scum and who isn't. When people present good arguments, it doesn't mean you should automatically believe them (or automatically discard them). Think about them yourself, think if the arguments make sense, and choose on your own whether you agree with it or not. Also, agreeing with somebody's arguments doesn't mean you have to always trust him. You can perfectly well agree with, say, my accusation of teejay, while at the same time think that I'm probably scum because of some other considerations.
So, play the game, will you?

[ODDin]

Hi there Taz!
Good to see an active player replace in.

[ODDin]

mallow: I don't like mallow using the noob card so extensively. He's finished enough games for him not to be considered a noob in any way.
Saying you think one of myself, TJ and podium is scum doesn't got anywhere - you're just naming the top suspects. There have been arguments brought up against each of us three. What do you think of those arguments? What do you agree with? What do you disagree with?
I think you're just active lurking and purposefully fence-sitting rather than being a newbie.

I think the sawyer-TJ argument has gone into semantics, really. Myself, I agree with sawyer's impression. I find it weird gonnano would vote over that. The impression is legitimate.

podium: What do you think of TJ? You've mentioned him as a lynch option. Does this date back to your initial argument with him, or is this over newer developments?

[ODDin]

Also, in post 208 mallow is trying to do something without actually doing anything. This isn't scumhunting.

[ODDin]

podium: I'm not necessarily expecting you to believe what I'm saying. I just said what I did and it's the truth, you're free to believe it or not believe it, that's a matter of personal interpretation. I don't think there's a contradiction in me saying I did something while at the same time not entirely believing TJ's explanation to something (and it's not the same explanation, it's a completely different one.)

More to the point: why didn't you answer my question in post 209?

And mallow is indeed beginning to look like a decent lynch.

[ODDin]

Not really liking taz' wishy-washy-ness.

[ODDin]

Taz, in the other game I'm played with you (and it just ended so I can discuss it), you werent' really that wishy-washy - although you were only there for half a day, so it's not much meta. On the contrary, you only changed your vote once and after that it remained in its place until the lynch.
So, the only usable meta you have works against you.

Post 225 is pretty bad, though. Everybody can say "I'm easy to critisize". What you're doing is AtE (and also backtracking on your meta suggestion).
Plus, "tunneled" doesn't really make sense anyway. Saying "I hope I don't get lynched for it" sort of makes sense (though still AtE). But what has tunneling got to do with anything? You can be lynched without being tunneled by anyone, you can be tunneled without getting lynched.

[ODDin]

Nice buildup to a future OMGUS there, pal.

[ODDin]

Says the one who can't decide what to do either.

[ODDin]

Are you, now? Even if you think it's a wrong bandwagon?
Even if it's your own bandwagon?

[ODDin]

Of course some lynch is better than no lynch, but you should only be willing to hammer any wagon when it's the only option to avoid a no-lynch. Under all other conditions you should be trying to push towards the lynch you find best.
The way you put it, as an answer to my question, it would seem you're fine with any lynch at all, and you don't think it's really important to push towards the lynch you think is better. I don't think we're in danger of not lynching anyone today.

[ODDin]

I've been accusing TJ of being too cautious from my first post, and it's still part of my case against him. (Some other parts of this case have been pointed out by Sawyer before I said them, that's true.)
Right now, I don't think I'm running with anyone's case when accusing taz, although my accusation of him isn't really a full blown case at the moment.

[ODDin]

Claims are only proper when somebody is at L-1 AND there's somebody willing to hammer. Thus, I read mallow's post requesting a claim as a willingness to hammer TJ, and this should be answered.
However, there are only 2 days left till deadline...

[ODDin]

Taz, could you at least finish today decently? We can't handle a replacement this close to the deadline. It would seriously hurt the game for you to replace out at this stage, show some decency. Replace after the day ends.
Also, taz, why do you refuse to vote for me or podium? What did we do that was so incredibly super pro-town that you

refuse

to vote for either of us? Also, what exactly happened to "I will vote for anyone just to hammer"? Suddenly, "anyone" turns into "anyone except for ODDin and podium"?

gonnano: You accused me of not bringing any new arguments to the table, I showed you it was wrong, yet you don't reply at all, and instead vote me. Yeah. Helpful and useful scumhunting.

To summarise why I think TJ is scummy (this is my INTERPRETATION of his actions):
He was being very cautious and didn't vote for anyone at the start of the game (his meta on the issue was inconclusive). He went on to accuse podium but still didn't vote, even though his vote at that point wouldn't have done any damage. Later on, when it seemed everybody was gung-ho on lynching podium, he suddenly expresses willingness to hammer. A little later when the case dies down, he backs down, suddenly he doesn't want to hammer podium. Moreover, he doesn't really find him really scummy any more. Instead he goes for an easy lurker target.
I interpret this as scum who is cautious with his actions, doesn't want to vote unless the majority of the town is okay with it, and backs down quickly when the wind starts blowing the other way.
His actions can be interpreted as townie actions and his words can be read in a way that doesn't form a contradiction. But, this is how I read it, and I think it's the more plausible way to read it.

taz again: voting sawyer won't help anyone, as I really don't think sawyer is going to be lynched today (I, for one, don't think he's scum). The candidates are myself and TJ. Make up your mind between us and go for it. The same goes for mallow and everyone else not on one of these two wagons.
If we want the pre-lynch claim to be of any value, we need to decide who's going to hang pretty damn soon.

[ODDin]

Taz, you're a complete fail. First you say you REFUSE to vote me. Now you think I'm more likely to be scum than TJ? Are you paying any attention or are you just shitting around?
I mean, I can live with being lynched by a majority of people who actually find me scummy (and the two scum, but that's a given), but being lynched by people who just couldn't care less and don't even think I'm scummy is kinda annoying. Unless you're scum who simply can't hide the fact that he doesn't care for whom he votes so long as it's not his scumpartner, in which case I'm okay with that, I can live with dying if that helps expose scum. But I have a feeling you're not scum but rather a really crappy townie.

[ODDin]

Also, I'm at L-1, but I'd prefer it for somebody to say he's willing to hammer before I claim. Plus, I won't be surprised if taz changed his vote again with the next post.

[ODDin]

Why did you say you refuse to vote for me earlier? What changed now?

[ODDin]

Dude, apparently you shouldn't try to use probability regardless. One's role in one game has nothing to do with one's role in another game. If you roll a fair die and get a 6, it doesn't mean the next time you roll it the chances to get a 6 are lower or higher. Even if you roll it 10000 times and get a 6 each time, it doesn't change the chances to get a 6 on the 1001st time.
It's called independent events.

[ODDin]

Indeed, my probability to be scum in this game is 2/7, just like everyone else's.
However, you should still use your brain. Who do you think is scummier, me or TJ? Your vote would be the third vote on either wagon.

[ODDin]

Or mallow, if he cared to show up.

[ODDin]

I didn't reply because I asked for an example of a new argument from you and you provided one. I considered the matter resolved. It had nothing to do with my voting for you, which was done to open up more options for the town because I don't like the TJ lynch.

...Except that I did, in post 238. Do you want me to elaborate and provide more?

taz again: voting sawyer won't help anyone, as I really don't think sawyer is going to be lynched today (I, for one, don't think he's scum). The candidates are myself and TJ. Make up your mind between us and go for it.

You say that taz has two options. When he chooses one of them, you say this -

Taz, you're a complete fail. First you say you REFUSE to vote me. Now you think I'm more likely to be scum than TJ?

Why give him an option that you don't consider an acceptable choice?

In principle, he has two choices, just like everyone else. I am not the one giving him the option (that's the situation that's been created and the fact is that this close to the deadline, TJ and I are the only ones with any real chance to get lynched.). I am also not the one saying it's not an acceptable choice (sure, since I know I'm town I'd rather people voted TJ, but I can get it if people think I'm scummy and vote for me). However, I found it very very strange that he said he refused to vote for me - even though I'm town, he has no way to know that at the moment unless he's scum. I found it even weirder that he would vote for me after saying he refuses to do so. Obviously, I questioned him about it.

[ODDin]

Whoops, I read it "and you provided none" instead of "and you provided one".

[ODDin]

I think he's a jerk, I don't necessarily think he's scum. Without him around to defend himself and this close to the deadline, it's not going to provide much useful info either. (Yes, I saw the deadline was extended, one day doesn't change much.)

[ODDin]

Taz, your opinions change with a speed that wouldn't shame a politician.

[ODDin]

podium - I'm pretty sure that is indeed the case. mallow apparently isn't going to show up, so somebody on one of the wagons needs to hammer on the other wagon.

[ODDin]

Taz, you're an idiot. The idea was to give me time to claim. And yes, you hammered.

Anyways, I was the doctor. I tried to go a little experimental and avoid getting NKed by being a little scummy (when I'm scum, I usually NK those who are least scummy, as they are the least likely to get lynched). Evidently I overdid it.
I'll remember to be more conventional in the future.
Good luck town, and especially good luck nurse, whoever you are.

[ODDin]

It's not the hammer that ruined my plan, it was my poor execution. Even if he'd said "I want to hammer you, please claim", I would've needed to claim, and for a doctor to claim basically means certain death.

[ODDin]

Although I guess the scum could've let me live only to say tomorrow "see, he wasn't NKed, it means he's scum let's lynch him".
But still, my idea wasn't to get THAT close to being lynched...

[ODDin]

Yeah, I haven't really brought the game's size into consideration... :/

[ODDin]

Nice game, thanks for modding jmj and also thanks haylen for the backup!

Sorry about my play D1...