Open 233: Ninja Mafia Boogaloo - Over!

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Shattered Viewpoint

for shattering my viewpoint.

[StrangerCoug]

1. Pepsi or Coke?

Coke.

2. Favorite Setup?

This one First time I get to play a setup I made up!

3. How would you describe your meta?

For some reason, I manage to have an anti-town meta. Reliable tells exist for me, though.

4. Win/loss record?

Not something I've been keeping current, but I'm pretty sure I still have a winning Mafia record. Town is much worse and I've never won as third party.

5. Maximum number of games you'll play in at one time?

Five, maybe?

[StrangerCoug]

@SV: Please explain why you unvoted when you weren't even voting.
VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

How is that a tell?

Unvote: Shattered Viewpoint
Vote: PaltryExcuse

[StrangerCoug]

@SV: Please explain why you unvoted when you weren't even voting.
VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

How is that a tell?

SV does something that made no sense, and was just unvoting perhaps to go through the motions. Doesn't care so much where his vote was laid... it wasn't comforting. His defense? Reaction-eering.

OK, I can make

SOME

sense out of this. You should be paying attention to your own vote, but reaction fishing is usually a good thing.

@SC: Why me over Sotty7?

Sotty7 said that Shattered Viewpoint "unvoted" solely because the RVS is over. I think what's running through his mind is that, if SV thinks that, he should at the very least chip in about what's going on, and preferably vote someone he thinks is scummy. SV didn't explicitly mention the RVS, but I think he's the last person that could have ended it.

I think my vote is better placed on somebody who's being dodgy, especially this early in the game.

Unvote: PaltryExcuse
Vote: silverbullet999

[StrangerCoug]

Stranger...

Please clarify where I've been dodgy! Thanks!

You're pretty darn dodgy in #50. Just because you answered questions already in a previous game does not mean you are exempt from doing so here. This is my first game with you, so I have no clue what you answered how. Even if this weren't, although you're allowed to bring up completed games, don't rely too heavily on them when defending.

[StrangerCoug]

SC, entertain my brain - what do you think about the balance of the setup? I've heard grumblings that we may be in a mafia-heavy setup.

"Mafia-heavy" is the wrong term here: 4/18 < 25% (the mark I try to shoot for), so that's why I told farside22 to merge the two-man Mafia teams so it wouldn't be so town-favoring. However, I'm afraid that, with no kill limitations on the ninja if we have it, it is indeed leaning towards favoring Mafia.

Sotty7 said that Shattered Viewpoint "unvoted" solely because the RVS is over. I think what's running through his mind is that, if SV thinks that, he should at the very least chip in about what's going on, and preferably vote someone he thinks is scummy. SV didn't explicitly mention the RVS, but I think he's the last person that could have ended it.

Do

You

think that SV was actually reaction fishing or using reactions as an excuse?

A bit hard to say. While I'm inclined to believe by default that the reaction-fishing is legitimate, if Shattered Viewpoint had contributed much of use before your question, then I'm being inattentive.

Besides, there are four scum. You should have asked who his scum pal

s

were.

Modkill fishing FTL.

FoS: Beefster

.

[StrangerCoug]

Besides, there are four scum. You should have asked who his scum pal

s

were.

Modkill fishing FTL.

FoS: Beefster

.

Mod kill fishing?

Trying to get another player modkilled.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, happy birthday, Chronopie!

[StrangerCoug]

Besides, there are four scum. You should have asked who his scum pal

s

were.

Modkill fishing FTL.

FoS: Beefster

.

Mod kill fishing?

Trying to get another player modkilled.

Yeah I get that part, I just don't understand how Beef was trying to do that in your opinion.

In most games, claiming scumbuddies can get you modkilled, and some people have been banned from the site for this very reason.

[StrangerCoug]

unvote, vote Zajnet.

gut vote,...too many jokes not enough content or reasoning...the wagon should be explored me thinks.

I knew something was off with his droids comment...

[StrangerCoug]

I think you mean to talk to CKD, Zajnet...

[StrangerCoug]

Hey guys, Assuming that I can count correctly, SV is at L-2. No OMG I DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS THE HAMMER OH NOES please. Especially since some people haven't even made a serious/non-RQS post yet.

I believe it's claim time for him then.

[StrangerCoug]

I'll start with the important bit. L-2 does not mean it's time to claim. It's time to claim when we've got someone in the thread who's ready to hammer. Until then it's time for the person being wagoned to defend them self. When someone claims we should be having them claim because we're ready to lynch them and I doubt we're at that point for Shattered Viewpoint just now.

In one of my earlier games somebody posted a formula as to when someone should claim. I suppose that's out of date/fallacious in the first place then?

[StrangerCoug]

@Stranger
With so many VT's in this game and a very unpredictable set up it is kind of obsolete claiming. He could fake claim VT and everyone would be pretty much just as clueless as before at this stage. Given you gave some thought into this setup (I sure hope you did) I'm sure you would have considered this possibility. Isn't it kind of ironic when you are telling him to claim when you pretty much know exactly what he is going to claim?

No, because it is not quite true that I know at all. That would require everybody aligned with the town to be VTs. I think you're also making the false assumption that F11, and therefore this game, has no fakeclaiming potential for scum.

I voted SV because I see him as the scummiest player at the moment.

This is vague. Elaborate.

-I don't know why CC is attacking me so hard about hijacking the question aimed at SC. Even if SC does just say "what he said", it could be interpreted as scummy under certain circumstances. IIRC, I don't think SC himself has actually answered the question.

That's because, as I said, I'm not sure what to make of what he did.

Mafia is a game of evidence. You seem to be the only witness of "scum skim," therefore it is not a viable point. In courts and whatnot, you typically need at least 2 witnesses for any evidence to count.

This is fallacious. That everybody disagrees with you does not mean that you are wrong. If it means anything more than that, it means you have to build your case to get people to rally for your cause.

FoS: Beefster

So I think these arguments that SV is town because the wagon moved fast are pretty silly given that there are only 4 scum in the game, so with 7-8 players on his wagon the majority of those are almost certainly town, BUT I still like SC for scum more than SV, silverbullet is reading town to me right now and SC's vote on him looks more like an excuse to have a serious vote down than reasoning behind silver being scum.

This is not a newbie game; therefore, I expect him to know better than to think he should be ignoring questions most of the time. Willfully ignoring a player is scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

I voted SV because I see him as the scummiest player at the moment.

This is vague. Elaborate.

Gut read + his weird unvote thingy.

"Gut read" and "weird unvote thingy", eh? Look like excuses to me.

Unvote: silverbullet999
Vote: Zajnet

[StrangerCoug]

So I think these arguments that SV is town because the wagon moved fast are pretty silly given that there are only 4 scum in the game, so with 7-8 players on his wagon the majority of those are almost certainly town, BUT I still like SC for scum more than SV, silverbullet is reading town to me right now and SC's vote on him looks more like an excuse to have a serious vote down than reasoning behind silver being scum.

This is not a newbie game; therefore, I expect him to know better than to think he should be ignoring questions most of the time. Willfully ignoring a player is scummy.

I'm having trouble with this. Who, exactly, do you think is avoiding questions?

silverbullet999.

Mafia is a game of evidence. You seem to be the only witness of "scum skim," therefore it is not a viable point. In courts and whatnot, you typically need at least 2 witnesses for any evidence to count.

This is fallacious. That everybody disagrees with you does not mean that you are wrong. If it means anything more than that, it means you have to build your case to get people to rally for your cause.

FoS: Beefster

I'm not really seeing how it is fallacious. I never said he was wrong, I just said that his statement wasn't viable. Viable =/= Plausible. Viable in this case means it can legally be used. Plausible just means that it

could

be true. "Scum skims" is plausible, but not viable- as no other witnesses are backing it up. Much like how the flying spaghetti monster is plausible but not viable.

I was explaining out why "I have seen it" isn't a good reason. I suppose I should have made that fact more clear.

I conflated viable and plausible. Thanks for straightening me out.

Un-FoS.

So I think these arguments that SV is town because the wagon moved fast are pretty silly given that there are only 4 scum in the game, so with 7-8 players on his wagon the majority of those are almost certainly town, BUT I still like SC for scum more than SV, silverbullet is reading town to me right now and SC's vote on him looks more like an excuse to have a serious vote down than reasoning behind silver being scum.

This is not a newbie game; therefore, I expect him to know better than to think he should be ignoring questions most of the time. Willfully ignoring a player is scummy.

NOPE. In a different situation maybe, but not wanting to answer someone's generic questions because they already answered the same person's generic questions elsewhere is not scum motivation.

Generic questions, I see your case, but I still beg to differ with your wording "maybe". There are very few instances where ignoring questions is just fine, and the "maybe" wording implies the odds of ignorance of questions being scummy being somewhere in the middle of the road. I did not join this game to argue over trivial semantics, so I may have to agree to disagree here.

[StrangerCoug]

-SC

, I expect him to know better than to think he should be ignoring questions most of the time.

Where else have I been ignoring questions?

That was pretty much it here. I was talking in a more general sense.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC

No, because it is not quite true that I know at all. That would require everybody aligned with the town to be VTs. I think you're also making the false assumption that F11, and therefore this game, has no fakeclaiming potential for scum.

A serious fake claim from scum as a town power role this early in the game is as likely as my pet gold fish drowning in his fish tank. In F11 with 9 players, as the game progresses a few days due to the limited player base, someone fake claiming as VT is less likely to get away as compared to this game where it will be nigh impossible to deduce if a VT claim is fake for at least several months.

You're

STILL

failing to take into account a truthful PR claim. Thanks for announcing to everybody that there is both a ninja and a roleblocker and you're failing to pick up power reads on anybody.

Major HoS

.

This is fallacious. That everybody disagrees with you does not mean that you are wrong. If it means anything more than that, it means you have to build your case to get people to rally for your cause.

FoS: Beefster

While I understand what you mean regarding beef and his logic is indeed quite poor, why exactly is this deserving of a finger in his direction?
So let me get this right: You, who hasnt built a case about why beef is suspicious, is suspicious of beef for not building a case about why he thinks SV is scummy because SV didnt build a case for his logic as to scum tells.

I don't write 25-page reports when I feel I can get my point across in less than a paragraph.

[StrangerCoug]

Assume

I was the cop in this game.
Why would I claim cop?
There is a 50% chance I may due unprotected due to a medic in this game.
There is a 50% chance I will be redundant this game due to a role blocker.
There is a 50% chance a Watcher will catch one scum on me.

Best bit, the effectiveness of this role is cumulative on a number of probabilities. Then you need to weigh in the chance that town believes you as a majority and also each particular power role player actually trusts you.

Can someone explain the benefits of a PR claiming on day one? Why would you want to pressure a town power role to claim unless

absolutely

scummy and guaranteed L-0.
Because if I had a power role I would rather take my chances with the angry mob.

NOW

you recognize the existence of town power roles (most likely).

I'm sorry if my player self is still acting on the tried and true, but there are

VERY

few times town should be fakeclaiming. If you really feel that you have a dispensable enough power role to fake vanilla and resign to your lynch and making enemies is the least of your concerns, then be my guest.

Also good luck with your role reads. I'm sure it does fantastic with over a dozen eager VT's.

Uhh... That's not my job. That's what I implied what you were doing.

PS: Lovely exaggeration with the "major" HOS.
Why don't you vote me out if I'm that scummy and save me the effort? Thanks.

Because Zajnet is scummier and a more viable lynch than you.

Hay SC why is Zaj a better lynch than Enigma right now?

My read on Enigma requires both a roleblocker and a ninja to be on the mark since I believe he slipped that information; my read on Zajnet is independent of the setup.

[StrangerCoug]

"For all that [your] word's worth," Chronopie? What makes you say that?

[StrangerCoug]

am I not allowed to hop a wagon in a large game to add pressure to said suspect?

Only if you provide reasonable doubt as to why you are.

I fail to make sense out of the second post. Explain.

[StrangerCoug]

So the "reasonable doubt" is reasonable doubt that the votee is town, is that right?

[StrangerCoug]

I can't believe I'm being called scummy for a jokingly random vote,

You've gone from saying your reasoning is gut plus a "weird unvote thingy" (the reason I voted you in the first place) to saying that your vote was completely random. That's not the same thing.

[StrangerCoug]

I can't believe I'm being called scummy for a jokingly random vote,

You've gone from saying your reasoning is gut plus a "weird unvote thingy" (the reason I voted you in the first place) to saying that your vote was completely random. That's not the same thing.

I was referring to my vote on AGar, not SV.

And my vote on you has

NOTHING

to do with AGar. Sorry, but the "jokingly random vote" isn't the sole case on you.

SC is either misreading or misrepresenting here. And the iso shows me I'm suspicious of SC. Very cleverly masking most of his posts,

Examples?

but most of them have either been theory discussion or provoking players for scumtells that aren't really scumtells. Dodging questions isn't really as scummy as you made it out to be. It can be scummy in context, but in this case, the questions were all but useless and answering them or not really isn't indicative of alignment. Useless RQS questions and the responses are about as useful of a dice random vote and the follow up.

I still don't advocate the practice.

Beefster received FoSes twice, once for "modkill fishing" (no sense of humor, obviously)

The operative word is "obviously". I

BLOW

at humor, so the clear lack of it is not a reliable tell on me.

His mentioning of there being a ninja and a roleblocker really struck me as odd, because I didn't see the connection between the posts he was quoting and the result, and he has yet to elaborate on this. He is making suspicions based on a certain part of the setup existing, and openly admits to thus..

Enigma claimed that I knew that the only claim I'd be getting was that of vanilla townie, and 14 VT's requires a roleblocker+ninja combo. He did not take into account town claiming a PR until I pressured him on that point, and when he does, he goes into this spiel that it is not beneficial for town PR's to claim on Day 1. While we'd like for it not to happen, I would be very unhappy with town faking VT and losing us a good role. Unless the meta has changed since I became familiar with it, claiming VT is signing your death sentence for playing scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

For some reason, I have a reputation for confusing the hell out of everybody. If you need something clarified, then say so, which you have. (Your case on me for FoS'ing Beefster for "fallacious behavior" is still valid, actually, especially since I didn't address it. Mostly because I saw the error of my ways, but still...)

[StrangerCoug]

Are we sure we can't lynch Shattered?

Even if we were nowhere near deadline, I don't think lynching Shattered Viewpoint is the answer right now given Zajnet's vote on him. I know I'm defending the former with WIFOM, but I expect scum to do a much better job of bussing than

THAT.

[StrangerCoug]

Both of my suspects are dead, so back to square one I go. So much for my theory.

I also would like to reiterate my case on Chrono
1.) his quick jumps on wagons with little to know effort to put out any content looks like scum trying to sneak in votes without getting notice.

2.) his deliberate lurking yesterday, I had to call him on it.

3.) once I called him on, he posts an opinion post, but he goes out of his way to slant EVERY post I have (OMGUS much)? The omgus isn’t as scummy as the fact he was attempting to try to discredit me, on absolutely no basis. His only mention of my vote on him was a deflection

"-CKD votes me, for voting SV for his over-reaction / False meta, while also quoting Confid, yet doing nothing about him, and finishing up by keeping his Zajnet-wagon option open."

This proves he read my questions, but is scared to answer them.

4.) I asked him a series of questions (revolving around over reacting being scummy) and he avoided them like the mother fucking plague. I caught you here in some serious bullshit.

Refresher

Hai guys, I'm back. Caramel Gold Mudcake ftw.

SV's over-reaction, and false (?) Meta, doesn't sit right on my scumdar.

VOTE: Shattered

Quick votes…lets slow his ship up a bit.

Also, anyone who has ever played with me, knows I FUCKING HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE SAY OVER-REACTION is scummy…I think people who use this as an argument for a vote are 8 times out of 10 scum, so ding ding ding, you win the prize for this game….

Explain to me, a.) what the over-reaction was…and b.)why over-reaction is scummy…

Also going to

unvote, vote Chronopie

He posts in 206, but ignores my questioning…I remind him.

Chronopie posts,

lol, I look scummy, now? wonder if that has ANYTHING to do with calling you out.

funny you still havent answered my questions yet, instead you want to assert I am scummy..

yep, my vote is in the right place.

5.) he lurks out again, all the while posting everyone else, he has to get prodded here. When he does post he votes Engima(town) and still refuses to address my questions.

There is nothing else to comment on, because he is lurking, only posting jjjjuuuussst enough to avoid being replaced.


So…can we please lynch scum now?

Question to start of Day 2.

Thoughts on my Chrono case…you like???? you don’t like???? Why or why not? Am I scummy, like CHrono has suggested in his one and only content post, why or why not..

I'll have to see him for myself, but right now I think this is a good lead to follow. I don't think you're scummy right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Chronopie's not all that active, I don't think, and his votes are for iffy reasons. I think a VOTE: Chronopie is in order myself.

[StrangerCoug]

in other news, Chronopie is posting all over the site (10+ times today)...can we please start a wagon here and not reward him for lurking.

ofc I am. One game at a time, in order that I get the emails to my inbox.

Sir this is a very common Scum tell and it is called active lurking.

I'm sorry, but Chronopie is not

ACTIVE

lurking. That would entail him frequently posting in this thread to make it look like he is being useful when in fact he isn't.

[StrangerCoug]

Seriously, your persistance almost makes me want to get lynched just for the reaction's sake.

Oh, come on. If you're resigning to your lynch as a reaction test, the only reaction you're going to get is hatred of you. You have until I get home to post a decent defense against AGar before I vote you.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: If you're resigning to your lynch as a reaction test

as town

[StrangerCoug]

His most recent post (the one with the dumb attention grabbing letters that serve no purpose other than him hearing his own voice) starts out by calling my post commenting on the Enigma kill scummy. Commenting on a night kill is, in my opinion, a null tell. I would be suspicious of someone for prolonged discussion of the night kill rather than scumhunting, but I don't see why it's scummy. He's going to pull out a "yada yada yada new players are more likely to comment on their handiwork as scum" in response to this. Yea right, it's just an argument he's using to make me fit into his scum view of me and get you folks to vote me. There is nothing about a simple post at the beginning of the day commenting on the night kill which would be scummy.

Sure, I hopped on the Chronopie wagon. It's not like there was a convincing case posted by someone or anything. I agreed with the case on Chronopie posted by curiouskarmadog. Sue me. Although it is quite humorous that in order to continue tunnelling on me, AGar ignores my resoning for voting KageLord. Instead he says I'm attacking him because he attacked the Chronopie wagon. Not true at all. Someone didn't read my post.

Earlier, Day 1, he suspected me for bandwagoning and AtE. Sure, I bandwagoned. AtE? Wasn't intending on using it, but I did, looking back. There's not really a defense that can be given for those.

OK, you're spared from my wrath. I was hoping for better, but I can live.

I'm going to let ConfidAnon vs. AGar play out a bit longer. The only problem I have with the latter right now is his stance on FoS'ing. I

MIGHT

agree if ConfidAnon's not voting

[StrangerCoug]

more chrono votes please.

Any one want to side bet that when crono gets back his vote will be on me?

Calling for others to vote is scummy and pushing way to hard, please refrain

curiouskarmadog is using a legitimate town tactic. Sorry.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't like Beefster calling out AGar for calling ConfidAnon a newb

OR

ConfidAnon playing the newbie card. The middle one's theory that the other two are scumbuddies is sound.

Unvote: Chronopie
Vote: ConfidAnon

[StrangerCoug]

also, im pissed the chrono wagon died down, lets just reward lurking.

no one wants to comment on the fact that Chrono has posted 13 times since his "I dont have internet" post here......

I still have a close eye on Chronopie. I just want to see where my vote goes.

[StrangerCoug]

Shattered Viewpoint, why are you engaging in belligerent behavior?

[StrangerCoug]

*Sigh*

Damned if I do, damned if I don't...

VOTE: ConfidAnon

Better than a no lynch. Might tell us something useful. Might support my innocence.

"Better than a no lynch"? You made me think we hammered, and I have a question outstanding (although not for him). Why do you

REALLY

want ConfidAnon dead?

[StrangerCoug]

Shattered Viewpoint, why are you engaging in belligerent behavior?

Why do you feel the need to question my actions? Do you think my belligerence is somehow connected to my alignment? Why, all of a sudden, are you questioning ME?

This is Mafia; any time I ask you questions, I expect to get information from you. All questions are meant to gain game-relevant information unless obvious otherwise. You appear to have something against Prox; what is your stance on him?

Also, drmyshottyizsik did not answer my questions for you; he posed his own.

Major HoS: Shatted Viewpoint.

The below is the

ONLY

thing keeping me from voting you.

I AM A COP

last night I got a hit on Chrono, he IS SCUM

Unvote: ConfidAnon
Vote: Chronopie

[StrangerCoug]

beefster - that's L-(-1)

That would be L+1, A.K.A. overkill.

[StrangerCoug]

Officially, vote and unvotes stop counting after the lynch xD

[StrangerCoug]

Give me a chance to read Beefster before I jump on. #483, as drmyshottyizsik points out more directly, is telling.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, a quick look at Beefster in ISO gives me a bit of an on-and-off feel. There are times he looks like he's doing well and times he isn't. Right now he wants to use somebody else's brain. I like Zorblag's case on drmyshottyizsik, though, so it

COULD

be a crossbus, but I'm not ready to draw that conclusion yet.

Vote: drmyshottyizsik

for now; that's my more confident read.

[StrangerCoug]

Could I have everybody's top two picks for scum and why? Mine are in #489.

[StrangerCoug]

beef, and someone else, and i already said why

That doesn't give me a lot of information. Of the people other than Beefster you've suspected, Chronopie and Zajnet are dead and you only briefly attack Zorblag and Shattered Viewpoint (now Equinox), so whom you mean by "someone else" is unclear to me.

[StrangerCoug]

I still like drmyshottyizsik as scum. Will post more when I check my other games and change my sig.

[StrangerCoug]

drmyshottyizsik still makes me unhappy. I understand that some of the gaps in his ISO can be explained by nights intervening, but still, his later posts seem to come in spurts. He has yet to give much of an explanation as to why he voted Beefster yesterday.

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik. I'll try to get in the habit of using the vote and unvote tags now.

[StrangerCoug]

silverbullet999, post some useful opinions in your next post or get my vote.

[StrangerCoug]

You wouldn't need to turn the threat back at me if you were reading, silverbullet999. drmyshottyizsik posts only occasionally and doesn't give a satisfactory case on Beefster. In addition, you're also on my scumlist for starting Day 4 being generally unproductive, hence the threat in the first place.

[StrangerCoug]

silverbullet999, it is important to understand that I don't write 25-page reports on people when I don't need to write 25-page reports on people. If I feel only one or two sentences are fine, then I will post only one or two sentences. If you want me to elaborate on them, ask me to do so. Don't arbitrarily label me as scum for posting short cases.

It is also important to understand that I'm allowed to agree with other people. And I did it how I prefer to do it: come to the conclusion myself. It is not uncommon for me to continue going after the same person if another one flips and ends up not giving me any hints as to scum, which itself is not uncommon. I suspect drmyshottyizsik, another player gets lynched and flips VT, a third player gets nightkilled and flips VT, and suddenly drmyshorttyizsik is

CLEARED!?

I'm sorry, but I'm failing to connect the dots here.

In any event, my suspicions

HAVE

changed. I had dropped you off my scum list thinking you VI, and now you're back on it for posting fluff this late in the game.

Me issuing a threat is a null tell. I do not believe in empty threats. When I say I am going to do something, then by God, I am going to do my damnedest to do it, even if it hurts me and/or I hate to do it. If you want an example of me threatening someone as town, go read Insane Asylum 2. If you want an example of me threatening someone as scum, go read Mind Screw Mafia 4.

I'll leave it up for discussion whether I should have put more effort at the start of Day 4, but until I made the threat, you failed to put any effort into the game at all today. Nice job calling the pot white and the kettle black.

UNVOTE: drmyshottyizsik
VOTE: silverbullet999

[StrangerCoug]

I suspect drmyshottyizsik, another player gets lynched and flips VT, a third player gets nightkilled and flips VT, and suddenly drmyshorttyizsik is CLEARED!? I'm sorry, but I'm failing to connect the dots here.

Way to put words in my mouth, Never said he would be cleared but hey maybe with the flip you though someone else was scummy, apparently lil ol me now... o thee joy.

You implied that you stopped having a clue whom I suspect after Night 3. If the night gives me no new useful information, I will continue on the path I was going. I think it's simple.

[StrangerCoug]

You implied that you stopped having a clue whom I suspect after Night 3. If the night gives me no new useful information, I will continue on the path I was going. I think it's simple.

When does, hey you didn't state your suspects today cause all you had done for this day was threaten me to state mine (for today when you hadn't stated yours), become I have no idea who your suspects are?

They go hand-in-hand. If I don't say whom I suspect, then there's no surefire way the town's going to figure that out. However, I

DID

state my then one suspect today before I made the threat.

Where did you get the implication that I stopped having a clue of who you suspected after night 3?

Here:

EBWOP

Also how am I supposed to read your mind and realize that your suspicions haven't changed during the flip?

How was I supposed to know that the night didn't give you new useful information?

Answered in the quote. I'll go after the same people I did the night before.

[StrangerCoug]

silverbullet999, if Equinox is scum, I'm setting myself on fire. She is trying to make it clear that you are posting incoherently. I'm glad you've seen the error of your ways going after me, but you're throwing crap at Equinox to see what sticks. Also, your attack on ConfidAnon, whether he's bussing anybody or not, is a cheap shot. Throwing "You'll be sorry"-esque comments at us is not going to help you get out of your grave.

[StrangerCoug]

Where have i ever said, you'll be sorry for killing me!?

I said "'You'll be sorry'-esque" as an implication that it's not that

ad verbatin

, but the sentence right above that in the original post is still a good example. Here's another good one:

Heh when i get lynched and flip town a few things I want you all to realize.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ConfidAnon

Kill ConfidAnon now, please.

silverbullet999's behavior is inexcusable, but his tone has me wondering if he's genuinely frustrated. In other news, ConfidAnon is opportunistic scumbag.

Noted in case there is a silverbullet999-ConfidAnon connection.

[StrangerCoug]

wait a sec... equiscum unvotes me... votes confid... which she just magically changes her mind on... something she Easily could have done in her preview edit? I call bussing....

Ah, let Equinox find your scumbuddies.

I said "'You'll be sorry'-esque" as an implication that it's not that ad verbatin, but the sentence right above that in the original post is still a good example. Here's another good one:

To your quote... o give me a break if you think thats me hiddenly saying you'll be sorry
It's me stating my last words and when you reflect and see the flip to take note.

A rose by any other name still has thorns. You told us to basically "note this when I die".

Noted in case there is a silverbullet999-ConfidAnon connection.

1. How does that quote AT ALL suggest a connection to me and confid?

You are acting very scummy, so for scum-ConfidAnon to go after you would be a decent attempt at gaining town cred. I am

NOTORIOUS

for this as scum.

2. Seeing how I was... (and probably still will be) going to be lynched are you really suggesting that
A. Confid's vote is bussing with poor reasoning
B. My retort to his vote being demanding his death as well as equiscum's to be some ELABORATE plan?!

Elaborate, no, but the workings of a scum plan nonetheless.

[StrangerCoug]

Ah, let Equinox find your scumbuddies.

Right let's just let equi slide... you keep fooling yourself and follow equi's word to no end.

Equinox is following my word (and adding some of her own) the last time I checked.

You told us to basically "note this when I die".

Exactly what I said... so where is that saying AHA you'll be sorry!

It's the impression I get from it. I've explained all I can.

You are acting very scummy, so for scum-ConfidAnon to go after you would be a decent attempt at gaining town cred. I am NOTORIOUS for this as scum.

I'm acting scummy for finding flaws in arguments and pointing them out. Fantastic!

Where the hell did I say you're scum for pointing out flaws in people's arguments!?

Also yes confid's decent attempt... so that's what you call a vote with half assed reasons?

He can't very well defend you, especially when he's voting you. He knows that is a mistake.

[StrangerCoug]

Equinox is following my word (and adding some of her own) the last time I checked.

Equi is for the moment.. on confid (though she'll probably hop onto me shortly).

The point anyway was that I latched onto you, then Equinox joined in. You made it sound like the other way around, which it isn't.

It's the impression I get from it. I've explained all I can.

How does, note this for when i'm dead = don't kill me or you better not kill me etc....

He can't very well defend you, especially when he's voting you. He knows that is a mistake.

You ignored my point completely... this 'decent' attempt to gain pro town points with you is to vote me with two half assed reasons.

My usage of "decent" is to some extent sarcastic. I don't like his vote either.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: The response to my second quote is:

Your notes are your saying something is a null tell; a weak case on Equinox; and a couple stabs on AGar, on whom you admit you're unsure. The "Note this for when I die" is unneccessary in my book, and its omission would actually have made you slightly townier.

[StrangerCoug]

I've been taking pot shots on ConfidAnon. Let me get them in one coherent post and I'll hammer.

[StrangerCoug]

silverbullet999 will be allowed to relax a bit, partly because he's right that Equinox beat me to going after him first. Now on to ConfidAnon. Where to begin, where to begin, where to begin...

Ah. I've started on it already. Let's continue...

I agree with the point about Beefster's behavior at the end of Day 2 being fail bussing.

Vote: Beefster

Don't you think this is a bit weak, not putting your own input in this?

Vote: silverbullet999

"When I flip Townie" comment plus the flailing during this game day = probably scum.

Now this is what

I

call "fail bussing". No original input, instead rehashing what's been said already.

And here it is, the jackpot. If everything else in this post can be easily explained away, I still think this is the nail in the coffin:

I'm not emotionally invested in this game, so I'm not really motivated to actively scumhunt. Meh. Explains my low activity.

If you were not emotionally invested in the game, you should've replaced out when you had the chance. Since you've

ADMITTEDLY

stayed in without caring much about scumhunting, you're going to die, and you're going to die right now.

UNVOTE: silverbullet999
VOTE: ConfidAnon
Hasta la vista.

[StrangerCoug]

Why don't I want to keep gunning silverbullet999?

[StrangerCoug]

Beefster and drmyshottyizsik were my two big suspects and attacked each other. Simple.

[StrangerCoug]

If I remember correctly, Zorblag actually got clean away from me.

[StrangerCoug]

silverbullet999 is improving. Certainly the ordeal taught him something.

Let's go back and VOTE: drmyshottyizsik for right now. His opening post needs to be explained.

NOW.

[StrangerCoug]

Hey, drmyshottyizsik, you were one of the major suspects before silverbullet999 crept up on Day 4. Do you honestly think we're that forgetful?

And that you're usually nightkilled by now is irrelevant. If you are alive,

SCUMHUNT.

[StrangerCoug]

I made no such statement. I said that Zorblag posted a decent case on you and that you and Beefster could be bussing each other. Although he talked to me negatively about asking for a claim at L-2, I can't find where he seriously considered me scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

It means solely that I never suspected him as scum. It says nothing about him distancing me.

[StrangerCoug]

So here's the deal. Unless someone can give me a decent reason why Zor would have tried to bus his partner at the beginning of d3 instead of going along with a scummy as hell town lynch (beefster) I'm not voting for drmyshotty.

I don't try to predict the Mafia. That helps avoid WIFOM.

Got clean away implys that he was once close to you, but then distanced

No it does not. You obviously have never heard of the phrase "to get away with murder" (or some other crime). Please think before you post.

[StrangerCoug]

ok coug if zor got clean away from you then that implies that you are scum too, because why would some one need to get clean away from you if you weren't scum???

This makes absolutely no sense. I'm supposed to get a penalty other than dead town for not catching the right guy? You might as well accuse everybody else that didn't suspect Zorblag at all.

[StrangerCoug]

I

don't see any town motivation for what you've done so far today either, drmyshottyizsik, you starting off with fluff and then blowing my post completely out of proportion.

[StrangerCoug]

Most if not all of us (except the mod) didn't even realize that the troll hadn't made a single post... yet we didn't mind.

Zorblag posted a total of 11 times, actually.

As for Gammagoey, you make good points, but I kind of want to see it developed.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC- If you mean a case on silver, if I still think he's the best lynch after rereading singer's stuff then IT SHALL APPEAR. I'm heading to dinner in a few minutes but I should be back on around 9ish EST.

I was talking to silverbullet999 about you, not the other way around.

[StrangerCoug]

Here're my reads on the people other than drmyshottyizsik:

AGar:

is my strongest town read.

Gammagoey:

Neutral. His reasons for refraining from drmyshottyizsik are odd to me, and his last post comes off as saying silverbullet999 hasn't been useful since Day 2, on which I beg to differ. I'm probably reading the post wrong, though, so I'll get by with a clarification. Good scumhunting overall.

KageLord

in ISO gives me somewhat of a "not there" feeling, but that's really only explainable by his post count (18 so far) and the post themselves look fine.

smashbro_of_the_SSS:

Run that name by me again?

singersigner:

Her predecessors don't give me a strong read either way, but she's been a pretty strong force. The one nag I have—she's solid town, but this is what is keeping her out of the #1 slot—is that, in post #677, she says that "[y]ou're either NKed, you're lynched, or you're mislynched." Not only do I feel her differentiation between a lynch and a mislynch in this context unnatural, but she fails to bring up the possibility of a modkill, which has happened twice this game. (There are also other ways to get killed in Mafia games, but nothing else is possible, so I feel it a waste of time to get on her about that.)

[StrangerCoug]

Oops—left off silverbullet999. I may be in error to him silverbullet999 leniency as his play in ISO just doesn't seem right until recently, probably for not scumhunting until today, so he's my second pick for scum.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, now you're making me debate whether you are so much as awake. When did I put two killing roles in this game?

[StrangerCoug]

Then why are you talking about the Mafia getting rid of two people per night?

[StrangerCoug]

You should have made that clearer then.

[StrangerCoug]

But you're talking about two deaths per cycle. That's what messed me up.

[StrangerCoug]

singersigner: Her predecessors don't give me a strong read either way, but she's been a pretty strong force. The one nag I have—she's solid town, but this is what is keeping her out of the #1 slot—is that, in post #677, she says that "[y]ou're either NKed, you're lynched, or you're mislynched." Not only do I feel her differentiation between a lynch and a mislynch in this context unnatural, but she fails to bring up the possibility of a modkill, which has happened twice this game. (There are also other ways to get killed in Mafia games, but nothing else is possible, so I feel it a waste of time to get on her about that.)

The speculation about how you die was regarding what we as a town (as a whole, with mafia infiltrating town) have the power to do. Modkills out of it. Does that make more sense?

Yes. Thank you.

[StrangerCoug]

Tunnel vision isn't bad if done correctly. It's confirmation bias that's bad...which may or may not be the case here.

I thought those were one and the same.

I'm neutral on the mass claim. I don't think it's an absolute necessity, but if it helps town more than scum, fine.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm cool with a mass claim
The first in alphabetical order should go first then popcorn from there

Why the first in alphabetical order? You generally start with the scummiest player when popcorn claiming.

[StrangerCoug]

Whichever's better for town. I was taught to start with scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Vanilla. I believe that leaves smashbro_of_the_SSS.

[StrangerCoug]

I check, and my vote is all the way back at #640. And only

NOW

somebody mentions this?

Mod: Please correct the vote counts from page 27 on to take this into account.

[StrangerCoug]

This is one of very few situations where a town self-hammer is a good thing, ensuring a lynch happens. The information we gain is much greater than not being in mylo tomorrow.

Could you explain this in fuller detail if you're still alive when you get this?

[StrangerCoug]

OK, I see why you think self-hammering town is fine in this case.

[StrangerCoug]

I still like drmyshottyizsik as scum as I have for a few days now, but KageLord brings up an important point. I want to call SotSSS my #2 pick for lurking.

I want everybody's top two picks for scum before we go through with not lynching. We want as much information as possible.

[StrangerCoug]

So you'd rather we blindly vote No Lynch? OK...

[StrangerCoug]

I'm just the pro-information kind of guy. Not much else to it.

VOTE: No Lynch