Open 233: Ninja Mafia Boogaloo - Over!

[Beefster]

Vote: KageLord

"Kage" means "shadow" in Japanese, therefore you are a Ninja.

[Beefster]

Also, I enjoyed reading the Mod's flavor text...

[Beefster]

I think I'll throw in some random questions... With 18 players, it might be difficult to get the Day 1 ball rolling.

1. Pepsi or Coke?
2. Favorite Setup?
3. How would you describe your meta?
4. Win/loss record?
5. Maximum number of games you'll play in at one time?

[Beefster]

beef, why not answer your own question for shits and giggles

Fair Enough. I just wanted to wait for some other answers first. (Not that it REALLY matters)

1. Pepsi or Coke?
2. Favorite Setup?
3. How would you describe your meta?
4. Win/loss record?
5. Maximum number of games you'll play in at one time?

1. Pepsi for the Mountain Dew, Coke otherwise.
2. I thought My Name is Earl was interesting.
3. I've flipped scum more than town. I have a pretty anti-town meta thus far. I guess my scum game leaks into my town game or something.
4. Scum- 1/2, Town- 0/1. Horrible record.
5. Most of the time, it's 3. Maybe if I there's a really cool theme game I just HAVE to be in, I'll go for 4. That hasn't happened yet.

[Beefster]

@PE: I really hate rolefishy RQs (Like "are you excited?" or "are you nervous?") and couldn't think of anything better.
Although I do hope to get something out of the meta question- mainly to see who's consistent with their self-proclaimed meta.
The other goal is to get the discussion going. It's early enough that it shouldn't be screwing up any other play.

[Beefster]

*Starts gathering materials to make shelter. Grabs a few leaves of Marijuana to use for the shelter.*

QUESTION HIJACK! I think SV was just reaction fishing. I can't imagine what else he would have to gain by unvoting without actually having a vote.

[Beefster]

Why did you answer for him?

Why not?

[Beefster]

Besides, there are four scum. You should have asked who his scum pal

s

were.

I still don't understand why everyone is jumping on SV... I'll take a guess that it's all for the lolz.

[Beefster]

Eh.. Probably should have bolded the s in pals. Ah well.

[Beefster]

@Beefster, Enigma: You've both done a bit of talking but I don't see much in the way of scumhunting.

Well there wasn't much to scumhunt before. Since there is now, I'll probably get to it either tonight or tomorrow. (I go to church)

[Beefster]

When I made that comment on scumbuddies, I was merely joking along with someone who posted before me.

Has Kagelord even posted yet? My vote stands until I do a reread later tonight or tomorrow.

[Beefster]

I just felt like hijacking the question. It seemed like a good question for anyone to answer.

[Beefster]

Really? I skim occasionally regardless of alignment. It all depends on how many walls of what size and how much I feel like reading.

Personally, I'd expect scum to be more attentive to a game- as they don't want to screw up and they're looking to attack just about anything.

[Beefster]

Yup, Zajnet is being very opportunistic.
smashbro pretty much took the words right out of my mouth (regarding Zajnet). I definitely see what he's saying about both Zajnet. I am also not for BWing SV. While he does look suspicious, it's too early to lynch.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zajnet

Some other points I'd like to bring up:
-I don't know why CC is attacking me so hard about hijacking the question aimed at SC. Even if SC does just say "what he said", it could be interpreted as scummy under certain circumstances. IIRC, I don't think SC himself has actually answered the question.
-I'm seeing SV as a VI townie.

[Beefster]

Mafia is a game of evidence. You seem to be the only witness of "scum skim," therefore it is not a viable point. In courts and whatnot, you typically need at least 2 witnesses for any evidence to count.

[Beefster]

Mafia is a game of evidence. You seem to be the only witness of "scum skim," therefore it is not a viable point. In courts and whatnot, you typically need at least 2 witnesses for any evidence to count.

This is fallacious. That everybody disagrees with you does not mean that you are wrong. If it means anything more than that, it means you have to build your case to get people to rally for your cause.

FoS: Beefster

I'm not really seeing how it is fallacious. I never said he was wrong, I just said that his statement wasn't viable. Viable =/= Plausible. Viable in this case means it can legally be used. Plausible just means that it

could

be true. "Scum skims" is plausible, but not viable- as no other witnesses are backing it up. Much like how the flying spaghetti monster is plausible but not viable.

I was explaining out why "I have seen it" isn't a good reason. I suppose I should have made that fact more clear.

[Beefster]

EBWOP: Yes, I may have IMPLIED that he was wrong. But I still left in the possibility that he was right.

[Beefster]

I did a quick ISO over Zajnet. He has posted nothing but fluff and opportunistic votes.

I see the point on Enigma- as he posts nothing but questions at other people. No thought progression or suspicion.

Zorblag is starting to look scummy. He seems to be a little too gung-ho about lynch all lurkers and isn't focusing much on real scumhunting. He's doing some of the same things that Enigma is doing as well. I also find it very strange how he posted a quote regarding the newbie setup and advice for it. I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish.

I skimmed over SV again and realized that he is pretty scummy (or at least anti-town). His posts consist mostly of fluff and the "scum skim" points.

[Beefster]

Enigma's megapost was awful. Very IioA. He still doesn't make much progression of suspicion and goes into a bizarre WIFOM defense.

FoS: Enigma

tumescence is making my scumdar react wildly. He says hi, answers my RQs from pages before, then analyzes sb999 as a TOWN READ. WTF?!? (And those were his only posts) I can only see this as scummy lurking.

UNVOTE

Vote: tumescence

@ConfidAnon: The difference between you and Zajnet- you post more often with content. Zajnet has posted nothing but fluff. Chronopie at least put effort toward analysis (even if it was cut off suddenly- not his fault), Enigma at least tries to get involved, Zorblag only makes megaposts (but less often), and tumescence is just plain scummy.

[Beefster]

sb999's post looks pretty opportunistic to me. And it adds up with tumescence's post... more or less.

HoS: silverbullet999

I found it pretty strange when tumescence came out an made one and only one analysis on sb999, but put him in the pro-town bin. To me, this looks like a major newbscum move. It looks like he's trying to deflect suspicion from a scumpal, and doing poorly.

[Beefster]

Eh. Opportunistic isn't really the right word. I probably should have just gone with his post seeming odd to me, as well as seeing a possible connection with tumescence. I tend to get too caught up in providing good reasons.

But seriously, why hasn't anyone talked about tumescence?

[Beefster]

@SV: Thanks for pointing that one out. Didn't notice that one in this mass of posts.

[aside]Think about it. If everyone was active (in a perfect world), there should be a post or two from every player on every page- as there are 18 players and 25 posts per page. And think about it, lurking is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy- if you post more often, you don't have to read as much between posts- where if you post less often, you have to read more between posts and will want to post less.[/aside]

[Beefster]

@AGar: it's not the lurking that makes tumescence scummy. It's the town read that he pulled out of nowhere. It seems like something a noob would do, which is odd considering he's been around since 2008...

[Beefster]

Holy crap, the deadline's really sneaking up on us. Ugh. If we hadn't wasted time on SV earlier, we might have had better chances of reaching a concensus by the deadline.

VOTE: Zajnet
He's looking really scummy to me for previously mentioned reasons and recent logic. And it's better than no-lynch.

[Beefster]

I feel we wasted time on SV because he seemed to be the only target for the first half of D1. That really slowed us down.

[Beefster]

Eh. I'll get to a reread soon. I need to leave more time for MS...

That kill sucks and I'd like to wait it out with respect to the tume->drmy replacement, just in case it was a weird playstyle or something. So I basically have no suspects atm.

[Beefster]

Eh. I'll get to a reread soon. I need to leave more time for MS...

That kill sucks and I'd like to wait it out with respect to the tume->drmy replacement, just in case it was a weird playstyle or something. So I basically have no suspects atm.

well maybe you can start by commenting on the two people who have heat on the moment Chrono or SV, why do you feel like they are not "suspects" at the moment?

They are not currently suspects because I don't have a formal case on either of them yet and haven't given them much thought or ISO time. I might also take a look at Confid, hopefully tonight or tomorrow. (along with Chronopie)

Chrono's megapost was pretty bad, edging on IioA and provided minimal content. He's pretty lurky. Scummy, yes, but I'd like to seek out a little more information before I place a vote. I am not a gut player.

FoS: Chronopie

SV, on the other hand- I'm not sure what he has to gain as either alignment with his unvote gambit. His scum skims crap doesn't mean anything to me. I'm leaning more toward stupidity on his part than actual scum motives. He's still anti-town and can look scummy from certain angles. But I don't think a lynch on him is in place currently. (I would see it as more of a policy lynch, when we should be more actively seeking scum)

[Beefster]

His most recent post (the one with the dumb attention grabbing letters that serve no purpose other than him hearing his own voice) starts out by calling my post commenting on the Enigma kill scummy. Commenting on a night kill is, in my opinion, a null tell. I would be suspicious of someone for prolonged discussion of the night kill rather than scumhunting, but I don't see why it's scummy. He's going to pull out a "yada yada yada new players are more likely to comment on their handiwork as scum" in response to this. Yea right, it's just an argument he's using to make me fit into his scum view of me and get you folks to vote me. There is nothing about a simple post at the beginning of the day commenting on the night kill which would be scummy.

Sure, I hopped on the Chronopie wagon. It's not like there was a convincing case posted by someone or anything. I agreed with the case on Chronopie posted by curiouskarmadog. Sue me. Although it is quite humorous that in order to continue tunnelling on me, AGar ignores my resoning for voting KageLord. Instead he says I'm attacking him because he attacked the Chronopie wagon. Not true at all. Someone didn't read my post.

Earlier, Day 1, he suspected me for bandwagoning and AtE. Sure, I bandwagoned. AtE? Wasn't intending on using it, but I did, looking back. There's not really a defense that can be given for those.

AGar, who are my scumpartners? You are very dead-set on me being scum, try looking outside the tunnel for answers and post some more reads.

I don't like this defense one bit, as it reeks of AoE and a pinch of WIFOM. But somehow, my gut says town. Normally, I wouldn't go on gut, but this time it's different- it's a little more than just gut. So I'll look at this from a different perspective.

I guess he does have a point about AGar- I wouldn't consider a 2009er to be a newb at this point and AGar may have been using that as an excuse. Also on the tunneling.

FoS: AGar

I'd also like to hear more from drmy. He really shouldn't be in as many games as he is now. It's hurting every game he's in.

[Beefster]

^ Newb =/= Scum

@gamma: Come to think of it, the kill was actually quite pro-town. It sucks more because it really threw me off.
Agar's probably more in the Top 5. drmy and Chronopie are my biggest suspects. Problem is, they seem more like policy lynches than anything else atm. AGar reeks more of scum, but I don't feel there is much evidence against him. Does that make sense?
VOTE: drmy
POST SOMETHING USEFUL!!!

I can also see PaltryExcuse as scum, but there's no concrete evidence on him. He's always seemed fishy to me, though.

[Beefster]

Newb + Newb Scumtell = Potential Scum

Confid isn't a newb! I'm failing to see your logic.
My case on tume points out something that I'd EXPECT a newb to do, but is scummy for anyone.

[Beefster]

I feel

FoS: AGar

is in order.

[Beefster]

I swear I've seen CA's current behavior before. Despite the stupid behavior, he reads town to me.

AGar could also be town, but I think his accusations of CA could have hidden scum motives. CA could have a point about calling CA a newb to make him fit the bill for a newb-only scum tell. I just don't feel those kinds of reads are useful outside of newbie games. The fact that AGar is tunneling on one of the weakest players throws up red flags for me.

[Beefster]

*Sigh*

Damned if I do, damned if I don't...

VOTE: ConfidAnon

Better than a no lynch. Might tell us something useful. Might support my innocence.

[Beefster]

I put the vote on Confid because I figured if he flipped town, you would stop going after me on the basis that it looked like a 2-for-1 deal. I'm probably screwed anyway even though I'm not scum.

But that doesn't matter. I like the sound of actually lynching a (supposedly) confirmed scum.

UNVOTE
Vote: Chronopie

[Beefster]

Maybe he's actually a tracker??? Not that it really matters in that case cause he's still an idiot.

[Beefster]

Well his bah claim was confusing at best. I don't really understand why he would do that. I was considering the possibility that it was correct, but it isn't, so let's move on. I don't really understand what is wrong about speculation at twilight.

[Beefster]

vote: drmy

Zorblag has a point and I hate being redundant and repetitive.

[Beefster]

He took the words right out of my mouth... And I have nothing more to add.

Way to jump onto the biggest wagon. +2 scumminess to drmy.

[Beefster]

2)In the post voting Chrono admits that his previous vote was entirely self-preservation instead of scum-huntan.

What? Don't be twisting my words. I said I was probably screwed either way, which is NOT self-preservation.

[Beefster]

Top 2 picks: drmy, AGar
drmy for tume's town read on sb and drmy's erratic behavior.
AGar- he seemed like he was all about pushing a wagon on CA. There can only be ONE cop, and the cop is dead. This can't really be justified as a town behavior. He's not playing as calmly and logically as I've seen him as town.

I'd like to offer an alternate perspective as well.
Equinox/PaltryExcuse- It just seems like PE was pushing a wagon rather than scumhunting. It's another perspective that shouldn't be ignored.

[Beefster]

I'm a vanilla townie.

[Beefster]

I'm a vanilla townie.

Explain the L+1 hammer please.

I just wasn't paying attention. I only saw the cop claim and didn't think to read ahead and just quick replied right there and then even though there were like 2 new pages. It never really occurred to me to check if a lynch had actually been reached before voting.