Mini 973: "Bawhston" Brawl (WHAT A WIN!)

[InflatablePie]

InflatablePie: Ever played in a 2:1:9 before (as town or scum)?

Don't think I have. Newbie 902, Mafia 112 (Large), Mini 963 and Mini 992 are my on-site completed games. Two scum, I think 5 scum and an SK, 3 scum (w/ traitor), and three scum respectively.

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Why is it everytime go into 3-way lylo, the other player needs to repeatedly say PIE IS SCUM and use AtE?

First of all fitz, Day 1 started on a Sunday morning (for me). Now, point out my posting elsewhere on the site. I might have been making quick posts in Furry since that game was the one that had been going on longest at the time. Likewise, I am posting in this one more than my other game(s). Keep in mind that I also have a work schedule (usually a lunch shift or double shift on Sundays), real life plans (although rare) and had 4 games going on at one point during this game. I'm not seeing me entering the game late as a scumtell. =/

He accuses my Hoopla vote of being countervoting (despite the fact I had expressed doubts about the PGO claim pre-Hoopla’s vote on me)

This is the only part I remember of your accusations right now - you never took a firm stance in that post. You said you were leaning scum, but the way it was phrased, you could have came back to it and said "Hey, I said I wasn't completely sure" and flipped completely, depending on what your options were at the time. I've done that as scum before, iirc, although maybe not in the same situation.

Will address everything else later. Going to work, will be back on later tonight. I can print out my timecard if no one believes me.

[havingfitz]

@Hoopla...I'm in GMT and I'm liable to be on anytime between 2am and 6pm E.S.T. (work and family permitting).

[InflatablePie]

I find his initial suspicion/vote (post 57) on me interesting as he bases it on the fact I unvoted (like Oso) and points out that this was first brought up by Hoopla. Then a few posts later (#62) he adds meat to his vote with some ridiculous comment about not explaining my unvote further (and btw…at the point of the game that IP has entered…I did have a vote out…on Hoopla). Why do I need to explain an unvote further that is no longer even in effect? He accuses my Hoopla vote of being countervoting (despite the fact I had expressed doubts about the PGO claim pre-Hoopla’s vote on me) and makes no comment about Hoopla’s vote on me made with absolutely zero reason. Then in the very next post (#63) accuses me of trying to blend in because of my unvote (ridiculous) and my ‘BW’ vote on Hoopla….despite the fact he was displaying the same ‘blending in’ with his suspicions of me (initially brought up by Hoopla) and his ‘BW’ vote on me.

post 62

I had a more townie feel from Oso, who removed his vote due to his playstyle. When you unvoted here, with your fencesitting-ish reasoning/PGO reaction, it sent up red flags.

Oso did the same thing as you: unvoting because we were "out of the RVS" and not replacing it. Blending in may not have been the best word choice, perhaps "piggybacking" fits better.

I admitted my vote was a bit of a wagon vote in my first post. In my ISO 4:

My vote, maybe. I admit it was a bit BW-ish. But it doesn't mean I have no reason for keeping a vote on you at this time.

And at least I had reasoning; your Hoopla vote came after 40 (aka "that post" from here on out) and people began to lean towards a Hoopla lynch. This was also after you had gained some votes from other players - when all else fails, why not jump on a wagon and try to make yourself fade out of the spotlight?

Now, I've been confident Hoopla is town because scum claiming PGO in the first post of the game is silly. Add this on to the fact that she's been a huge contributor and very protown, and we have ourselves a 99% townie.

fitz, your attack of me for finding Hoopla to be most likely town is similar to me attacking you for defending Oso so hard on D4, no?

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP (not really content): I forgot to mention this way back when; no one found my joke in 62 funny at all? =/

[Hoopla]

InflatablePie: Ever played in a 2:1:9 before (as town or scum)?

Don't think I have. Newbie 902, Mafia 112 (Large), Mini 963 and Mini 992 are my on-site completed games. Two scum, I think 5 scum and an SK, 3 scum (w/ traitor), and three scum respectively.

The reason I ask, was because this post caught my eye;

Unvote

because Hoopla asked nicely and kind of has a point. Question though: if we're in MyLo, would a no lynch today be a plausible idea at all?

If it really is 4:2,

then a no lynch would eliminate one player, making things easier to narrow down. It would most likely be Nikanor (iirc, everyone but Nik/Hoopla claimed vanilla, meaning no doc), but with a roleblocker alive our cop's powers are limited.

Plus, if we are somehow in 9:2:1, that means right now, we have 5:1

- if we lynch scum, we then have to no lynch to lylo. Either way, we have to vote no lynch, the question is if we do it today or tomorrow. If Hoopla's theory is correct (or even if it isn't), it seems the smarter move to NL today, but I'm not sure how you guys treat MyLo here on MS. Of course, we can still scumhunt today and attempt to peg scum, so let's continue.

It kind of looks like you have inside knowledge of the set-up. I'm not sure why you were talking about this possibility, when you've not seen a 2:9:1 before, and the general consensus suggested otherwise. I'm also not sure the scum motivation behind saying something like this, other than using privelaged knowledge to shape a better position for you in the future. You used this argument against havingfitz, with his late play towards Oso - is this a relevant parallel do you feel? Why were you wary of a 2:1:9 set-up?

[havingfitz]

I’m still finding time slots to do back reads but few comments on recent posts....

Why is it everytime go into 3-way lylo, the other player needs to repeatedly say PIE IS SCUM and use AtE?

This isn’t relevant to this game...but has this actually occurred? And is this quote also an AtE? How many games have you made it to the last three and were you town or scum in them?

First of all fitz, Day 1 started on a Sunday morning (for me). Now, point out my posting elsewhere on the site. I might have been making quick posts in Furry since that game was the one that had been going on longest at the time. Likewise, I am posting in this one more than my other game(s). Keep in mind that I also have a work schedule (usually a lunch shift or double shift on Sundays), real life plans (although rare) and had 4 games going on at one point during this game. I'm not seeing me entering the game late as a scumtell. =/

I still stand by my comment IP is suspicious in that he was the last person to get into the game despite having posted ~5 times over the weekend (Sat-Sun...not just Sunday). If Hoopla needs links to actual posts you made I can certainly provide them but it is as easy as looking at your post history and checking the dates. It’s ridiculous that you require proof...while keeping the possibility that you did post...when it’s a fact you posted onsite the Saturday and Sunday following the start of this game (which started on a Friday) ...but failed to post in this game until Monday. This IMO is you staying out of the early crossfire and getting your bearing straight on who you can target in alignment with the suspicions of others.

He accuses my Hoopla vote of being countervoting (despite the fact I had expressed doubts about the PGO claim pre-Hoopla’s vote on me)

This is the only part I remember of your accusations right now - you never took a firm stance in that post. You said you were leaning scum, but the way it was phrased, you could have came back to it and said "Hey, I said I wasn't completely sure" and flipped completely, depending on what your options were at the time. I've done that as scum before, iirc, although maybe not in the same situation.

I did take a firm stance towards Hoopla for a good part of D1 and have maintained a certain level of Hoopla suspicion until today. How could I not? All I had was his word. I did not have a firm stance between my RV unvote and Hoopla vote as I needed to consider Hoopla’s PGO claim and whether it was more likely to be scum or town. Having never played with a PGO before, I needed time to determine my position. As different possibilities have come to light I have suspected almost everyone in this game...including Oso. The fact I thought Oso was town on his last day was based on the fact I thought there were still 2 scum left and the different combinations of voting and player interactions FMPOV ruled Oso out. These different combinations did not rule out the other players (IP, MS, or Hoopla).

Have you expressed any suspicions towards Hoopla throughout this game or have you been content to consider him town? And if so...why? Town have no idea Hoopla is telling the truth. Scum would at a minimum know Hoopla wasn’t scum...and therefore be more inclined to believe the claim.

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Hoopla...good point on the familiarity with 9-2-1 set ups. I do not recall any of my ~20 games being this type of set up hence my train of thought on D4.

[InflatablePie]

why am I awake

@Hoopla: I was simply thinking of all possibilities. I think someone had mentioned it possibly being a 9:2:1, so I was trying to think of it from all sides at that time. I'll try to find the post if I can.

fitz's first point: I haven't played many games on site, but I recently went to 3-way lylo in Furry mafia, where FakeGod kept using AtE and mentioning that I am scum every other sentence. Although in that game, I was scum, so things are a bit different here.

Second: fitz, the thread was made on a Friday, but

Day 1 started Sunday morning

. Don't know about you, but I can't post in a locked/night-phase thread. I believe on that day I was working on Sunday, at the very least during the afternoon-ish times (Eastern btw); don't recall if i was a double shift or not since that was 2 months ago. However, I did not read through this thread until a short while before I posted Monday afternoon. Feel free to dig up any posts on the site I might have made during that Sunday; point is that I did not read through this game until Monday. You're really stretching on this: accusing someone of being scum for being the "last person to enter" is more RVS than anything. I wouldn't seriously find someone suspicious just because they were the last person to confirm/post their first post.

Third: I don't know Hoopla's alignment - obviously town at this point since she has not hammered - but I have said many times that scum claiming PGO is rare and silly, plus the fact that she has had very protown vibes and heaps of content. Look at her first few posts concerning analysis of the PGO reactions and tell me that's doesn't look protown. I don't think scum would put in as much effort as Hoopla has, either, but maybe it might be because I've just played with sorta-lazy scum.

[InflatablePie]

Vote: havingfitz.

Why not?
We're probably looking at a scumteam of uno now.

Nope, three player scum team. Why you ask? Because of your role and mine. That would be insanely unfair for the mafia to be up against a cop, PGO

and

an SK, with only a goon and a roleblocker. One cop investigation, SK kill or incorrect nightkill, or even a lucky Day 1 lynch wipes out half the scumteam. How is that fair?

Cops are sucky roles in 2:1:9's, because then if you have a Godfather, the cop has only one possible target to find - what's the point? But then of course, there can't be a GF in a 2-player team if a roleblocker exists. There's no way it was 2-player scumteam. Cops are too powerful to be in 2:1:9's, and that's not even taking my role into account.

It must be made known, there are two scum, and we are in mylo. Sorry Nikanor.

[InflatablePie]

Oh, and it's just funny how you suspected Hoopla, then thought she was town on the massclaim day (Gwyn lynch day too IIRC), then thought she was scum when you were sure it couldn't be Oso (and agreed with Hoopla on MS's interactions with Gwyn - lol), then switched back at mylo.

Again like I stated, you said that Hoopla would be more suspicious if TBM flipped town here.

By the way, this post saying he finds Hoopla to be town,

which goes against what he was talking about above

also has what I believe to be an unnecessary comment that caught my eye: "TBM and Furry on Nikanor (may they rest in peace) ". Might be nothing major to some, but it's in the same vein of congratulating the doctor in my eyes.

Oh, and again looking back through ISO, this is more of fitz deflecting suspicion back on to an attacker, except in a much harder and more obvious way this time.

[havingfitz]

@IP...I'll concede on the last to post issue. I did not catch that the game actually opened Sunday afternoon.

Also, I think your reply to Hoopla also covers you on the knowledge of a 9-2-1 set up; however, I see Hoopla's reprimand of you for not realizing the game was in mylo actually points to another example of you having knowledge of how the game is set up.

If for some ungodly reason he does not flip scum, I have a feeling I'll get lynched next, since him and I are the two prime suspects today.

Except for the bit about it being mylo. I'm surprised you're this careless to not know there won't be any other lynches if we're wrong today - but then again, Epicmafia solves that riddle.

While town is still under the assumption there is a 3 scum team in the game and we are at 4-2, ie a mislynch = gameover, you lay out a situation where a mislynch doesn't end the game. Despite having just mentioned all of the possibilities (including mylo) a few posts earlier. And your response is basically your play on another site and that you are an idiot. I'm sure you did feel like an idiot after a slip like that.

Also, as I read through...your vote on Oso seemed to be very convenient. It comes after Osotown provides his analysis of the game and puts you at L-1 and after you have mentioned several times how much you believe Oso is town and can not see him being scum.

Also...I continue to see you cozying up to Hoopla throughout the game. With the realization that (barring her lynch, which had not gathered any traction throughout the game) you would need Hoopla's vote on whomever you faced in Lylo there would be more incentive for you to align yourself with her than be continually suspicious (aka uncertain).

Last, while lamenting the fact you are called scum everytime you go to Lylo (AtE) may not have any bearing on this game or your alignment...I find it interesting that you bring it up when the only other time you have been in this situation you actually were scum. So maybe people only call you scum in Lylo when you are scum?

[InflatablePie]

A slip? Well, that would imply I am scum. No, that was me being stupid and forgetting this game was in (what we thought was) mylo.

Yes, I did mention Oso's protown-ness multiple times throughout the game, but Hoopla made a very compelling case. MS and Gwyn's attacks on each other didn't seem like scum-to-scum-bussing/chatter when I looked back at it, so process of elimination left you and Oso, furthered by the fact that you two called each other town so much (especially you to him).

See, I don't cozy up to anyone. It just so happens that Hoopla has been protown, therefore I think she is town. Also, are you saying you haven't tried "cozying up to her" in any way?

"Feel free to hammer Pie and win the game... Pie is scum, etc."

As for your last "point", I wasn't lamenting anything and that wasn't AtE. That was more of an attack on you, constantly saying I'm scum seemingly every other sentence and using AtEs yourself. The rest of that part of your post is just... let's leave it at "silly".

[havingfitz]

Oh, and it's just funny how you suspected Hoopla, then thought she was town on the massclaim day (Gwyn lynch day too IIRC), then thought she was scum when you were sure it couldn't be Oso (and agreed with Hoopla on MS's interactions with Gwyn - lol), then switched back at mylo.

I don't recall ever proclaiming Hoopla town. I may have been resigned to put her in a town category at different points of the game (such as now) based on how strong my suspicions of others were...but until yesterday I have never discounted the possibility she was scum.

Again like I stated, you said that Hoopla would be more suspicious if TBM flipped town here.

What is your point? I'm basically saying that Hoopla's voting the same person I am gives me pause for thought but does not completely rule her out in my mind due to the potential for bussing (assuming TBM had been scum).

By the way, this post saying he finds Hoopla to be town, which goes against what he was talking about above also has what I believe to be an unnecessary comment that caught my eye: "TBM and Furry on Nikanor (may they rest in peace) ". Might be nothing major to some, but it's in the same vein of congratulating the doctor in my eyes.

I don't recall calling Hoopla town. But whether I called Hoopla town or not...what does my indecision about her alignment indicate? Other than I was undecided throughout the game on whether or not to believe the PGO claim? If my rest in peace comment comes across as scummy I don't know what to tell you. Just stating the obvious.

Oh, and again looking back through ISO, this is more of fitz deflecting suspicion back on to an attacker, except in a much harder and more obvious way this time.

Why is this a problem? I tend to suspect people who vote others (myself included) without providing any rationale whatsoever.

Also...as the topic of game set up tells has been on the agenda today...

This post where you mention an 8:3:1 set up as being only an assumed set up is quite insightful. Considering you made it weeks before Hoopla lays out the odds against the game being a 9:2:1 set up which you provide as the reason (ie defense) for questions Hoopla brings up in Post 654 and the basis for your knowledge of that set up. Ie. IP only knew of the 9:2:1 set up because Hoopla mentioned it....even though he (IP) alludes to a set up other than 8:3:1 much earlier in the game.

Whereas I'm still in 3 scum land weeks later and up until the Oso mislynch does not result in endgame.

tl:dr

- IP has shown an understanding of the game set up and a willingness to believe/pander to Hoopla throughout the game whereas I have been off the mark for the majority of the game and been uncertain of anyone's alignment except for Oso on D4...especially Hoopla's who I have suspected thoughout the game until D5/6. I have also consistently operated under the assumption there were three scum until it was blatantly obvious that wasn't the case (ie D5).

[Hoopla]

Hey fitz, are you online now?

[havingfitz]

Hey fitz, are you online now?

Off and on. ?

[Hoopla]

Ah, good to know, fitz.

I'm going to lay my cards down now - I am 80% sure InflatablePie is the last scum, but to confirm you as town and Pie as scum, I'm going to self-vote quickly while you're still here. If I'm right you obviously won't hammer me (just make a quick post before Pie gets here), and I can unvote and finish off the confirmed scum.

Vote: Hoopla

[havingfitz]

No vote here.

[havingfitz]

That said...why risk a self vote and not just vote IP. If you were wrong and I was scum....voting yourself would have had the same result as voting IP.
If you have been playing us you have gone the extra (unnecessary) mile here on Day 6.

Now get rid of that self vote!

[havingfitz]

I must say Hoopla...after ~8 hours of this self vote gambit I'm tempted to vote you as this feels like some sort of mindscrew.

However; Since you've had the chance since yesterday to end the game if you are scum, I'll still assume you aren't scum and that your computer was struck by lightening right after you self voted.

I hope you were not injured in the lightening strike and are able to crawl to the nearest internet access point before IP gets off work or wakes up, etc., and comes in to finish town off.

[InflatablePie]

Unvote, Vote: Hoopla

[InflatablePie]

By the way, Hoopla, if you're actually, say, a bomb or vengeful townie... then I am going to cry. Then congratulate you on a good play and slap myself for being stupid.

[yabbaguy]

Please stand by. Day 6 will end shortly.

[Hoopla]

By the way, Hoopla, if you're actually, say, a bomb or vengeful townie... then I am going to cry. Then congratulate you on a good play and slap myself for being stupid.

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Vengekill: InflatablePie

[InflatablePie]

...

[yabbaguy]

Yes, people from Boston have all sorts of quirky personality traits, but you ought to really get to know them before you label them. Poor InflatablePie decided that Hoopla was indeed just a dumbfuck paranoid and decided to take advantage of her apparent defenselessness. He whisked her away into the noose, and hung her there. InflatablePie then grimaced as Hoopla began smirking almost fiendishly, and took out her pistol.

Forget the shot, this is the reaction heard round the world.

SHIT!

*BANG*

Hoopla struggles, but fails to free herself of the rope, despite havingfitz's best efforts to save her. havingfitz sits alone and weeps, mostly in joy. The policemen catch up with him and he puts up no resistance in his arrest for being one of many facilitators of murder. As he is taken off, news cameras catch up too and start overwhelming him with questions. havingfitz's tears of joy drown his face however, and he is rendered unable to speak to any of them. He doesn't care that he's going to be the one to take the fall for the formation of this mob. It has done its work. And while Boston will always be Boston, this would've been a crisis that would have been endlessly devastating.

Meanwhile, policemen back at the scene track InflatablePie's data and cross-reference it with Gwynplaine's data. They find a way to trace them back to the very headquarters of a Mafia organization itself! A sting operation is arranged, and the Mafia group which were so eager to do an assault on Boston have now been put away for life.

Boston is saved. Tourism continues to flourish. The John Hancock tower continues to gleam. Harvard continues its business. The ships sail out of Boston Harbor once more.

You have won, Town. After six damned Days of watching your comrades be brutally lynched, shot in the gut, and endless onslaughts of verbal abuse, you have won. I'd say you deserve it after all this.

Hoopla Lynched D6:

Vengeful (Town)

InflatablePie Vengekilled D6:

Roleblocker (Mafia)

havingfitz survives:

Vanilla (Town)

Town Wins!

Congratulations: Nikanor, q21, Hoopla, Oso, xRECKONERx, Midnight's Sorrow, havingfitz, Furry and TheButtonmen!

[InflatablePie]