Mini 991 - POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA (GAME)

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vote: TheButtonmen

Do you know, The Buttonmen, The Buttonmen, The Buttonmen?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Questions:
1. What is your Timezone?
2. RVS or RQS?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Need to get some sleep. I do want to leave something before going to sleep, thought.

Budja has contributed barely anything in this game so far. All we litterally have is votes. Everyone else has at least posted some form of contents, even if it isn't much.

UNVOTE: TheButtonmen
VOTE: Budja
Who are your suspects and why?

Karma is also scummy. The attacks he has been making has been mostly flimsy. His defense has also been crap, not to mention he isn't doing well under pressure. A few of his posts has been IoA.

@Karma: To answer your questions:
Time Zones: This will help us know where you are. Therefore, we'll be able to know when you post. It can help us understand where you are and this information may be needed during later in the game.

RVS vs. RQS: These type of questions are frequently debated among which one is better ultilized. Occasionally, they spark debates over it, helping town gain information.

-First post is a weak hop on the popular wagon that doesn't acknowledge other votes on Button

That vote was during RVS. It's not like I put him at L-2, L-1, or accidently lynched him. Plus RVS creates pressure on the person and gains reaction out of them.

-Second post is a "RQS" style post, which I dislike. Also took me a second to realize that's what he was doing. It just made me cringe a little.

Not seeing how "RQS" posts are scummy. I slightly prefer RQS to RVS, that is not a scummy opinion. I made those questions to help town, not to stall them.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Explain how my defense is "crap" and which posts are IoA.

Why your defense is crap: Parama made very good points against you and you basically dismissed them. I honestly hated that you said you were lazy (Not an excuse), used the "Don't call this post OMGUS!" excuse, which is very scummy. And as Parama pointed out, you overreact to stuff.

Posts that are IoA: I will explain if need so.

But your avatar is so cool I might have to become one.

Hahahaha, become a Fire Emblem fan.

Although I could see myself wearing a sweet hood/cape thing.

Oh yeah, @Kmd: Use "bookmark this thread" at the bottom. They're basically watched topics.

@Gammagooey: The difference between two quotes is that Budja only voted and gave town read. Empking on the other hand, actually provided a reason for his vote. It isn't much, but it is something.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Was about to make a post, but unfortunently, I have to go to bed. I will make a post as soon as possible tomorrow.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mod: Kmd is voting for Andrius.

I'm quite uncomfortable with an Andrius bandwagon. While Kmd did provide a decent case against him, I'm not really ready to switch votes over. Karma is a better suspect.

I'm also a little uncomfortable with ReaperCharlie. I'm getting a fairly scummy read on him, due to his lack of contents for the most part, however, I'm wondering if this is part of his play style, since people are giving him town reads.

And SSBF, I don't care if you hate that I'm lazy. I am. Get over yourself.

The point is that using "I'm lazy" as an excuse is not a defense in any sort.

And those IoA posts were not IoA. 2/3 of them were fluff and one of them was a legitimate attempt to help out. If you're going to call fluff in the RVS scummy then I don't even know what to do. You're seriously misunderstanding the term.

There were no analysis in either of those posts and they gave us nothing to work on. Yes I understand those intentions, but with the last post, you could have at least tried to give us something to work on. The things you were talking about are things the people may already know of.

So why is a vote reasoning inherently better than a town read? I'm not getting it.

A voting reason is better then a town read because a reason for voting gives us something to work on. Town reads does not always mean scum hunting. It's nice to have town reads, but those can be dangerous, as they could expose who scum should kill.

Both voting reason and town reads are risky in there own way, but there are more benefits for voting reasons then town reads.

This wagon makes me paranoid. Although it does make me feel a little better about Kmd just by comparison to the other people on it.

I agree that this isn't really that good of a bandwagon. Yes Kmd provided a decent case on Andrius, and as a result, I am slightly suspicious of him, but I'm not ready to throw down a vote yet.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

If it's a decent case, why are you uncomfortable with a wagon on Andrius?

I think people are jumping to conclusions way too early in the game. This is the same reason why I didn't jump on the Karma's wagon as soon as I found suspicion on him either. One, it could cause a lynch before town is prepared and two, I want to be sure of my vote on Karma.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Definently not liking ReaperCharlie. His play has sucked throughout the entire game and I'm getting the feeling he's not even trying.

I'm also going to do an analysis later on today (In real time).

I can't give him a town read because I don't know what he's like as scum. He reminds me of Jack, whose play is aslo similar and yet very confusing.
So that's a null on RC.

I don't excuse scummy play based off meta. Even if I did, this isn't a legitimate compairision between Jack and ReaperCharlie.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I hate how you're town.

Don't miss this people. Karma said he hated that Parama was town. This could indicate that he knows what alignment Parama is part of. Either they're masons, or more likely, scums. I'm leaning toward the latter.

Every vote I make is serious.

What about RVS votes? I thought RVS votes weren't serious. Also, your vote on Dramonic didn't look serious, so that contradicts your statement.

Gamma needs more POWERFUL VOTES people.

Like seroiusly, random comments while we're actually scum hunting? Absolutely ridiculous.

SSBF's play isn't exactly what I'd call protown, but arguably he's a newb and my gut is writing a giant "TOWN!" on him

Let me just say that I am not a newbie. I may not be the best player in Mafiascum, but I don't want anyone to pull the "newbie" card with me (I won't be doing it either). I've been here almost long enough to mod.

This game has too many lurkers, this saddens me.

Uhhh, this makes you look really hypocritical. You haven't really provided much contents either.

Just needed to comment on some stuff. I already have my scum reads ready and I will explain them before midnight today.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I believe Karma's claim, so I'll spare him for now. I have three scum reads:

Andrius:

If there was one thing Karma did right, it was actually attempt to defend himself. Andrius has done very little to benefit the game. His defense on June, 21 at 2:16 AM CST is downright horrible. His active lurking is almost as bad as TheButtonmen. Very little good contents and many scum tells. When he does actually provide contents, they seemed forced by other people. Also take a look at the last post. Karma was right about Andrius being hypocritical, but he also failed to realize that Budja is V/LA until tomorrow. My top suspect in this game.

ReaperCharlie:

Is he seriously taking the game as a joke? Mafia is a pretty serious forum game and he has almost completely neglected to even try. Very few of his posts contained anything meaningful in this game. His self-vote is ridiculously scummy. He has been guilty of bandwagoning in this game. First on Andrius and then Karma. He also said he didn't have time for this game because he was stuck in Wisborg Asylum, which is bull because he has been one of the more active member here. Almost completely useless, but he seems to be intentionally scummy, so I'll deal with him tomorrow.

TheButtonmen:

Worst of the active lurkers in this game. His last post where he complained about lurkers is very hypocritical of him, since he has been active lurking himself. He doesn't even attempt to push his case on Gammagooey, whom he has his vote on. Fairly scummy.

Overall, my scum reads are TheButtonmen, ReaperCharlie, and Andrius.

Unvote, Vote: Andrius

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Before I go to bed, let me ask you guys a question.

What is the purpose of this school discussion? All I see is a lot of fluff.

I expect decent answers by 12 PM Central Times.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I am fairly certain that SSBF is town, so it might help me down the line somewhere.

I'm getting the feeling that you're attempting to cement a connection between you and me. I really don't like this.

Like I said above, it was not hypocritical. And sorry if I'm not stalking Budja.
No wait, I'm not sorry.
And I'm still not stalking Budja.

I should have clarify that post you quoted.

Karma was right about you being hypocritical. However, I would also like to point out that you failed to realize that Budja was V/LA.

I read your defenese and it doesn't change my mind.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

That's a straight up lie.

Even if you weren't passive lurking, you were active lurking. If you haven't noticed, active lurking is a period where you are active, but provide little contents. So technically, you were lurking in a form.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Also the irony of that post is large.

How have I been active lurking? Yes I'm not exactly the most active person in this game, but at least the majority of them are not one-liners.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Parama: I think it would be a good idea to focus on both Andrius/Karma and the lurkers. You bring up a good point about lurkers. Since only Andrius/Karma have been suspicious throughout most of the game, we should continue focusing on them, regardless of claim. PR claims do make me less suspicious of them, but it doesn't mean that they are pro-town yet.

As for lurkers, they need to be pressured to add some contents. I have a null read on all of them, so I'll have to check them out and decide on the scummiest lurker. A mixture of both will be the best for town.

I will put down my vote later. Karma has improved, so I won't be choosing him. Basically, my vote will go either to Andrius, MrSauve, Empking, or Dramonic.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

MrSuave:

He's only made one post that can even be possibly be called contents and even then, I really don't like the post. Post here:

hmmmm.... I see that people were looking for my opinion. well, I'll say that Reaper has said that he will re-read a few times, and has also voted himself twice. I don't know, but imo, he's either scum being so distracting that he will be ignored, or just a VI >_>. either way, I don't like it.

my gut (and if you've played with me before, you know I usually just go with my gut =d) tells me that dramonic is not to be trusted this game. but that's just my feeling.

I also don't like the whole, "I'd settle to lynch ______" thing that was going on a few pages back. D:

btw, and I am not a useless lurker. >_< think of me as a late game fire emblem hero. I suck at the start, and am better at the end. =D

but, as a recap of everything I just said:

-I think ReaperCharlie should be watched and deserves my FOS
-I think dramonic is scum with no real proof other than a bad feeling
-I'm pretty neutral on everyone else

Unvote; MOREPOWERFULERVOTE: dramonic

It seems like that ReaperCharlie from his perspective sounds like a better lynch candidate, however, he goes to vote dramonic just because of a bad feeling, which I call a cop-out. No attempt to find evidence on why Dramonic could be scum, he doesn't even try. The third paragraph doesn't look good either. I honestly don't see why he had a problem with "I'd settled for a lynch on ___", especially since there are times when the person lynched isn't your top lynch candidate and you need to consider other options. He also argued that he isn't a useless lurker, but so far, he has barely contributed anything. I also didn't like how he basically said "I suck early in the game, but get better later on.". I think he's trying to make an excuse for not contributing and I'm not going to let that happen.

The post contains very little scum hunting, and a weak defense. Combined that with his other small one-liners and I have a pretty strong suspicion on him.

Empking:

Not as bad as MrSuave, but I'll be keeping my eye out for him. He hasn't really done that much aside from asking questions. I'm getting a feeling he's doing this to coast through the game and do the minimal amount of contributing without us noticing. I'm getting a slightly scummy read from him and it will stay a scum read until he starts contributing better.

Dramonic:

Like others, he is guilty of active lurking, especially with his later posts. Sure he's made a few half-decent posts (His analysis was good), but most of his posts late Day 1 is basically discussing what school we should go into and all that stuff. However, he does have the potential to be a good player Day 2, so I'll leave him at null.

Andrius:

Even with his claim, I am still suspicious of Andrius. This basically explains my suspicion on Andrius:

Andrius: If there was one thing Karma did right, it was actually attempt to defend himself. Andrius has done very little to benefit the game. His defense on June, 21 at 2:16 AM CST is downright horrible. His active lurking is almost as bad as TheButtonmen. Very little good contents and many scum tells. When he does actually provide contents, they seemed forced by other people. Also take a look at the last post. Karma was right about Andrius being hypocritical, but he also failed to realize that Budja is V/LA until tomorrow.

I was disappointed that he has not really done much to sway my suspicion of him. If not for the claim, I would immediately be voting for him.

I'll be willing to lynch either MrSuave, Andrius, or Empking ToDay based on what we've gotten so far. MrSuave is my top suspect with Andrius as a not-so-distant second and Empking as my third choice

Vote: MrSuave

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I was joking.

I want 2 apprentices. I want to neighborize someone... and I can confirm myself as well, through the neighborization.

That post looked pretty serious. Just because you later lay it off as "Oh, I was kidding." doesn't mean that post is excused. This post especially makes me feel that you're lying:

And I still want to Neighborize someone.

SSBM; I've been called a lurker for a long time now.

That's for a good reason. Lurking brings the game down, giving us less information in the long now. Passive lurking isn't scummy, but active lurking is, and you've been active lurking.

Unless you think I'm completely devoid of brain cells I'm not trying to avoid notice.

Your low posts count and minimal contributation said otherwise.

BTW,. I'm not lurking you guys are playing ridiculously fast. (Which if you look at day 1 is not a good thing.)

The reason why the speed goes so fast is because deadline is quicker then normal games, so we don't have time to stall around and wait for other people to post.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Parama and SSBF - what do you think of a massclaim?

I was kind of hoping to wait until Day 3, as I don't think that massclaiming ToDay is a good idea. It gives scums more of a foothole and more power roles option to kill during the Night. However, since we're already getting this over with, I might as well claim when the time comes.

The only part I was joking on was the idea that I'd be auto-confirmed town if I Neighborized someone. I know that I'm not a Masonizer, so.

But you would be auto-confirmed an alignment to a person, either town or scum.

What remains constant is my desire to create a neighborhood with someone

, and to do that I need 2 apprentices. So yeah, I'd love 2 apprentices.

Why do you so desire to neighborize a person when you know clearly that scum hunting comes before making a neightborhood?

Opinion on ReaperCharlie's claim: I don't believe it. The majority of the claim is basically role-blocking. These can go either scum or town. I'm leaning toward a claim that a scum would make. His power with the second apprentice involved confusion. As scums needs to confuse the town, I can't really see a redirection power as a pro-town role, although this could be because I have no experience with it. The Dominate power is scummy. This really does sound like a scum role. If ReaperCharlie is scum and he gets to lylo, he can use this to automatically kill a person. Overall, it looks scummy and I don't like it.

Opinion on Gammagooey's claim: I was fixing to call him out as a scum due to his claim, but looking at the number of apprentices, he got none. There is a possibility that he is telling the truth about being a town, but he's more then likely not doing so. However, with that fact that he did claim Magic Missle as a kill, I can very well see this as him lying and really being part of the Mafia, so I'm taking his claim with a grain of salt. I'm not going to support a lynch on him due to his claim, but I don't believe it either. So I'm saying his claim is slightly scummy.

As for my roleclaim. I will be doing a full roleclaim, however, I want to get it approved by SpyreX, as I don't want to risk a modkill for role PMs being too close. So, bear with me if it takes awhile to get a claim that won't modkill my ass.

One more thing I want to say.

The apprentices should not go to Evocation or Enhancement school ToNight as they are very well possible scum schools.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'll roleclaim now and get this over with:

Roleclaim: Necromancer

Spells:

No Apprentices:

Touch of Fatigue. The person I target lose access to cast spells at max level for one Night.

One Apprentices:

False Life: If the target were to die, they would die at the end of the following day instead of immediately.

Two Apprentices:

Clone: All actions geared toward that target will target the clone, which will die at daybreak.

Three Apprentices:

Energy Drain: The person targeted permanently lose access to there highest spell.

Guild Mark:

Heart of Stone: That target will become immune to any death except for lynches for the remainder of the game. Once I cast this, I become an apprentice and lose access to my spell list.

Win Condition:

I win when all threats to the Guild has been elminated.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF - who did you target last night? And who do you want to claim next?

I targted ReaperCharlie last night with False Life. If we decide on him lynched very quickly (And I mean seventy-two hours before the deadline), we'll still have plenty of time to find his potential scum partners (Andrius anyone?) in the case that he does flip town. That way, we'll have a better, more organized idea on who to lynch. Even with his attempt to act like a jester, he still revealed a fair amount of information to the town. Also, I absolutely hated his Day 1 play and his Day 2 play isn't much less scummier. If not for his apprently intentional scummy behavior, I would be doing my very best to lynch his ass.

The person I want to claim next is MrSuave, my top lynch candidate.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Wait so False Life lets us see alignment at the time that they would normally die? Ask Spy if you're not sure pleeeeease.

It doesn't state in my Role PM that it does that, so I'm going to say no it doesn't. Hence why I said "potential scum partner", not "scum partner.". All it does is delay his lynch until the end. If we lynch him within seventy-two hours of the deadline (The closest), we will still have time to search for connection between him and other players in the situation that he is scum. I will try to get it all cleared up, thought.

If this were true I would've been pushing Divination D1. Why wouldn't the town want a masonizer?

Weren't you doing that Day 1? Because I remember you wanting us to go to Divination Day 1.

D. I'm an easy lynch, no? Obviously scum will wanna lynch me and try their best to push a crap case.

You claim to be a very experienced player from another site, yet you're declaring yourself as an easy lynch. I see no reason to spare you any mercy.

My solution: Lynch Karma instead, and all apprentices choose to follow Enchantment tonight, and we'll all be happy.

But your vote isn't even on Karma, so why should we support you?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Going to catch-up, but one thing.

I think I mis-read my PM about the False-Life. It's actually suppose to prevent a person being Night Killed until the following day if they get targeted. Sorry about that.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm an easy lynch because of how little I've contributed and how anti-town I've been playing. Not because of my overall lack of skill or experience.

If you are an easy lynch, considering your experience level, there's no excuse for you to go down this low. You have done a lot better then this in past games, you should know better.

Not as hard as I could have been. I only really started when I was lined up to claim.

The fact is that you were supporting your school, therefore, the point stands.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

What do you all think of 1 apprentice - Gamma, 2 - Parama for tonight?

I would definently like Parama to recieve two apprentices. It should really help out the town and cut down on Night Kills. I do have a bad feeling about Gammagooey have even one apprentices, thought.

MrSuave needs to post content, replace out, or die.

Agree that MrSuave needs to post contents or die, but this game doesn't allow replacements.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Now I'm kind of apprehensive about sending ReaperCharlie to the gallow. In Cartoon Cartoon Mafia (Smash World Forums), Zensei (Formerly Exn) did something similar to this under pressure. He did improve, but it was too late for him. Got lynched Day 1 and he flipped town. I'm getting a gut feeling that this will happen to ReaperCharlie as well.

@Gammagooey: About the Guild Mark, I'll think about it. He is currently one of my strongest town read in this game and I definently don't want him to die. I will do it if I receive no apprentices ToNight. However, like others, it is very well possible that he is a scum, so I can't rule out that possibility. That really depends on what happens during Day 2 and Twilight 2.

edit: Nice Budja. Nice. You support Divination (which I claimed D1), then try to lynch me? You're supporting an obviously town school and trying to lynch the only person in that school at the same time? Obv_scum.
RC/Budja scumbuddies.
FoS: Budja

This is useless OMGUS on Budja. The fact that your main reason is because he's trying to lynch you isn't helping your case. I'd also like for you to explain the connection between Budja and ReaperCharlie.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Glad to see that all three of my suspects are potentially going to be lynched ToDay. I prefer MrSuave to die, but Empking or Andrius are choices I'll be comfortable with as well. I will switch my vote to Andrius if it means securing a lynch on him.

b]Fos: Gamma
FoS: Budja[/b]

Do you have any explanation for your suspicions on Gammagooey and Budja? This also sounds like a hideous attempt to hide OMGUS from us.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBG I've suspected Gamma before he was aware I was playing this game. If you remember, I was voting him all day 1. I'm pretty sure that the same is true for Budja as well.

I do not see any proper explanation made for neither of these people. Sure you asked them questions, but I'd want explanation on why they're scummy.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Karma: Except that I got my role claim approved by SpyreX, so I do not need to worry about being modkilled. ReaperCharlie's claims is worrying, thought. He runs a risk of being modkilled.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Night 2, I used my Guild Mark on Parama. He's the only person that I'm absolutely certain that is town. Behind Parama is Gammagooey, who I also trust very well as a townie. I also have a slight town read on ReaperCharlie, Karma, and Budja. I'm still null on dramonic, although I will be watching him very closely.

By process of elmination, the remaining scums are Empking and MrSuave. Both have been inactive, both have made minimal contributations to the game, and both seems to not care about the game. They have put almost no effort in the game whatsoever. MrSuave is worse, thought, so I will

Vote: MrSuave

. If Empking is getting lynched or if it looks like MrSuave is going to be modkilled, I'll settle for an Empking lynch as well, as both are very scummy.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Unvote, Vote: Empking

With a MrSuave's extremely likely modkill, we have the potential to kill off two scums with one Day. I'm certain that at least one of Empking and MrSuave are scums. Either way, I'm happy.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Parama has an extremely strong town read from me, so I have no suspicion on him and I know I'm town. ReaperCharlie gets a considerable town read from me as well. This leaves Gammagooey and Budja. I have gut feelings that one of these two are the scums. However, the best lynch IMO is Gammagooey.

First off, he is the only remaining claimed role that is a form of a killing role. I cannot recall another person that has a killing role here and is still alive. Secondly, look at Karma's death scene in Night 3. Karma by then has improved a lot during Day 2 and Day 3, so this isn't a good choice for a vigilante Night Kill. Another thing to note in his ISO, I have not seen him hint that he would vig Karma on either Night 1, Night 2, or Night 3, making it more the likely that it was a scum kill then a town kill.

If we kill him, we have one, maybe two more chances to lynch someone if this ends up a mislynch. But I don't think that's going to happen. Seeing that Gammagooey is already lynched, if he flips town, we have one, maybe two more lynches left.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Parama is V/LA from today until July 24, 2010. This means that we're going to have to get someone to self-vote as the deadline will not allow Parama the oppertunity to contribute unless we ask the mod to extend the deadline and I'm not sure if he will. But hopefully it's worth a try.

@Mod: Parama is V/LA from July 17, 2010 to July 24, 2010. Deadline is July 23, 2010. Could you extend the deadline to July 25/26, 2010 so we can give Parama the oppertunity to contribute?

For a case, his Andrius/Dram interaction weren't impressive and he was pressured by Gamma into guild mark usage.

I expected better out of you for a case. Even thought you do make short posts, it's not like they have to lack in substance like that. Explain why my Andrius/Dramonic interactions were unimpressive. Furthermore, I'd liked to know how me using my guild mark was scummy. Gammagooey requested that I did and he flipped town, plus Parama was and still is my strongest town read and I have no doubt whatsoever that he could be scum.

And SSBF what do you think of Gamma and Parama?

Both of their plays have been relatively pro-town, that's for sure. However, Day 5, I thought Gammagooey was the most likely scum out of the five people here. I probably would have hammered him if I've gotten the time, since I thought because he was the only claimed killing role left, he must be scum. Turns out I was wrong.

I don't have any doubt that Parama is town, no if's, and's, or but's. His play has been consistently great throughout the game and I haven't really seen a scum tell out of him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

So basically its between you and Budja, right SSBF?

That is correct. Since we're the only two receiving votes so far, it's either me or Budja who dies ToDay and I'd prefer not to die.

What do you think of Budja?

Out of you, Parama, and Budja, I think he is the most likely to be the last remaining scum. He's contributed the least out of the four of us. I didn't like his first couple of posts as I thought they lacked in contents. He is also distancing from me. He said in ISO: 25 that I gained town points for using my Guild ability, yet in ISO: 34, he puts a vote on me for reasons I believe to be poor. With that said,

Vote: Budja

.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Very, very shocking outcome. I was certain that Budja was the last scum. How Parama managed to fool us so easily I don't know.

His play was litterally flawless. I thought he was town beyone all doubt.

But still, I think I did great in this game and it's nice to have a game where you know you've done great in.