Mini 991 - POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA (GAME)

[Parama]

POWERFUL VOTE: MrSuave

[Parama]

a POWERFUL VOTE is a normal vote with a cool name

[Parama]

OH YEAH I'M IN THIS GAME AREN'T I

So this is L-2. Buttonmen, anything to say?

...it's an RVS wagon. And you're not even on it. Why would you care? Useless pressure is useless.
Also I started a trend, I should be proud of myself

I don't think Gamma needs more votes, since I agree with his most recent post more than I agree with Emp's votepost <_< He kinda asked what I just asked too.

Hmm, I'll bite.

unvote, POWERFUL VOTE: Karma

[Parama]

I'm lazy.

This isn't an excuse considering it doesn't take much effort to ask a question:

Example: Why did you ask if you weren't looking for a defense? You can give your own opinions too, which you don't seem to be doing right now - all you've posted since my vote are responses.

[Parama]

POWERFUL

VOTE: Parama for seriously coming at me with that half-assed attempt at a case. If someone calls this OMGUS I will punch their cat, dog, fish, and/or mother.

OMGUS.
But really, that's all it is tbh. It's not really a case, it's a ping on the scumdar on page 3, and considering it's the scummiest thing I've seen thus far, it merits a vote.
And wow you totally freaked out about it. You just went from mildly scummy to caught scum.

Confirm POWERFUL VOTE: Karma

[Parama]

Hey Karma, you haven't told me why my logic is crap yet.

[Parama]

@Parama: Your original case on me was based on a misunderstanding. I told you that, and you should've unvoted.

Yes but what you asked is hypocritical, which is the problem. This is exactly my point.

Also,

Why did you ask if you weren't looking for a defense?

I was looking for answers to the questions I later asked. Sue me.

What does this mean? Considering you haven't asked any questions since the one directed towards Gamma, I have no clue what you're trying to say here.

But no, you had to push.

Hey, for starters, pressure is good, and I found you scummy. Why SHOULDN'T I have pushed?

Example: Why did you ask if you weren't looking for a defense? You can give your own opinions too, which you don't seem to be doing right now - all you've posted since my vote are responses.

You posted this 5

hours

after I posted clarifying my question to TBM. At this point, I don't even know what you're calling me out for. It can't be lurking, since I wasn't doing that. I had already talked about why I asked the question.

You posted twice in that time, simply responses. Not really adding anything new. And you asked Gamma to provide content, according to you yourself. That's hypocritical. It doesn't take that long to post, and "I didn't have the time" is not an excuse when a quick analysis takes all of 5 minutes.

You just went from mildly scummy to caught scum.

You calling me "caught scum" after continually misunderstanding me and not even making any sort of tangible case is scummy, so I voted you. Maybe I overreacted. I can be a dick sometimes. You still have no tangible case against me. Make one.

The case is not based on the misunderstanding, it's based on your hypocrisy in asking for analysis while not providing any yourself. And it's barely a "case", just one thing to call out.
Though you really did overreact to my point. And OMGUSed because of it. Yes, your vote is OMGUS. You didn't do anything to disprove my case and you haven't made any good points against me.

So I guess a case IS forming around this one initial point.

Notice how this post doesn't actually contain anything new to my "case" as you want to call it. I've already made one, and you're ignoring it.

[Parama]

Though you really did overreact to my point. And OMGUSed because of it. Yes, your vote is OMGUS. You didn't do anything to disprove my case and you haven't made any good points against me.

No, my vote is not OMGUS. You presented a case based on a misunderstanding - that was that. I cleared it up. The issue should have been taken care of right then and you should have moved on. Calling me hypocritical for asking for analysis from TBM on PAGE FUCKING 2 is fucking scummy. Why don't you attack Andrius - all he's done is ask questions. Why don't you attack 3/4 of the players here for "not providing any analysis"?

The "case" (I swear this isn't the right word for my original point) started because of the misunderstanding. But when you cleared that up I saw something much worse than the original accusation, that being the hypocrisy involved in the question. And again, don't use the page 2 card. Why am I scummy for starting to scumhunt earlier than most people are used to? Isn't that, like, pro-town?
Meh, you do have a point on Andrius, though most of the questions were still during the RVS phase of the game (which has since ended). Though I will say asking good questions generates info for the town... but his questions aren't really good ones :/
Problem is this looks like deflecting. And deflecting coming from my #1 scumpick = not exactly interested in pursuing the case.

[Parama]

EBWOP: Crap, I forgot to put the two posts into one

Read this one first

if you notice it before you read the first one.
...
Wow that's one mess of a sentence.

@Parama: I'm seriously thinking you're confusing me with someone else.

Nope.

Yes but what you asked is hypocritical, which is the problem. This is exactly my point.

Now Parama, we were on Page 2. There's not a whole lot to analyze. I want a reaction from TBM about his wagon. That's all. Calling me hypocritical for responding when not everyone is even posting is a huuuge stretch. My later responses, which you found hypocritical were:

1. Clarifying your original misunderstanding of my question
2. Saying "I'm lazy." I am lazy, and I didn't have 5 minutes for a "quick analysis." Sorry.

No, you're missing the point. You clarified the misunderstanding; that was fine. But that made the original question into (essentially): "Are you going to provide content, TheButtonmen?" which is what I'm finding hypocritical seeing as you weren't providing any original content yourself.

And don't play the "it's only page 2 card" because I HAVE caught scum by page 3 based on the first 3 pages of a game.

What does this mean? Considering you haven't asked any questions since the one directed towards Gamma, I have no clue what you're trying to say here.

...I've never directed any questions towards Gamma.

Sorry, I meant the one at TBM. Late night posting makes Parama forgetful

[Parama]

My top scumpick jumps on the newly forming Andrius wagon ----> I'm convinced Andrius isn't the right place for a wagon right now

My logic works in simple yet efficient ways. And Gamma has a point, considering nearly nobody is providing content right now. Hell, Kmd, Karma isn't really providing much content either, so why isn't he a good wagon? He's prodding others to provide content but isn't doing so himself.

[Parama]

It is hypocritical, you haven't explained why, and I'm certainly not spouting drivel, considering I'm more right than you are.

[Parama]

Do you know how to read?

Yeah, and you certainly don't.

[Parama]

Parama, give an estimate. What percentage of what is in my posts do you think qualifies as content? Or are you calling me out for not posting near the beginning of the game?

What exactly are you talking about???

This?

Hell, Kmd, Karma isn't really providing much content either, so why isn't he a good wagon? He's prodding others to provide content but isn't doing so himself.

Because I wasn't calling you out for lack of content... this was a question directed towards you about your stance on Karma. Since you're playing "Content-O-Meter" you should really check out this guy because he's not providing much of that though he wants others to do it, and most of his posts are responses.

[Parama]

Parama's points were NOT. GOOD.

Your opinion, I think they're perfectly fine.

He calls my question hypocritical when it wasn't.

Yeah, it was.

He didn't give me a chance to do any analysis

Gave ya a few posts - it doesn't take that long to post content y'know.

TBM never gave me a response. I was planning to analyze it, see if it looked scummy.

He never did, but that's not an excuse for not providing content.

I thought asking TBM for a response on his wagon would generate info for the town.

Vague question is vague and useless.

I agree, my "anything to say?" question was vague and useless.

Oh look you agree.

But asking him how he felt about the speed, the players on it, etc. is a good question.

But you didn't ask that.

However, I slept on it, and I realized my frustration with Parama makes this really feel like town on town. Parama's attacks are wrong and horribly misguided but he's trying, which I can't say for most of the town.
UNVOTE: Parama

Yay, appeal to attacker! My favorite tactic to use as scum <3
Yeah I don't care about your read on me, tbh.

Waste of my time. *sigh*

[Parama]

Alright, I'm over the whole Parama vs. me thing - I can't change him. I'll just resign myself to the fact that he's dumbtown.

BAAAAW

You just don't want me to give more reasons why you're scum. I'm not dumb, I've caught scum!
(hey that rhymes cool)

KMD you should probably take Karma off your town list since he's not town.

[Parama]

You're going to have to explain that one thank you very much

[Parama]

Um, RC, we're kinda past RVS now.

[Parama]

MOD: I highly doubt Karma is self-voting

Though I would be glad if he were

[Parama]

...
RC can you TRY to be serious?
Also the vote count is even less accurate now than it was at the time of my last post :/

[Parama]

Okay I'm not liking RC at all after recent posts :/ But Karma is still the best wagon.
Also deadline's in 3 days? 0_o

[Parama]

I see the case, but I like mine better considering it's a similar type of thing except I don't think Andrius has asked a hypocritical question yet (correct me if I'm wrong on this)

[Parama]

Already made up my mind. I think Karma is scum and it's pretty obvious that Karma isn't scum with Andrius and vice-versa.
To be fair Karma's gotten better in terms of content but my original point still stands and he's probably improving so I'll jump off him. But NOPE not gonna happen.

But I should also stop being lazy and reread.
Preview Edit: 4 posts while I was typing up this one. WTF.

[Parama]

Meh, I'm not sure I want to give up my Karma case, but I see no reason to lynch him after that claim :/ Either the mafia will take care of him if he's town or if the claim is fake and he's scum then he'll be caught inevitably.

unvote

I still need to do some rereading, ugh. Will try to get a vote down tomorrow.

[Parama]

Uh... Kmd, I don't think that's a good idea, what if we pick wrong and pile onto a scum's school? That wouldn't help the town at all .-. Not sure if I want to take the chance, if we can confirm a school as a town-sided one I'd be all for it but otherwise I'd rather not.
Also I'm not seeing Gamma-scum considering he provides some of the best logic in this game, IMHO. TBM what's your case anyways? I may have missed it but I don't remember seeing one.

[Parama]

Holy crap why are we spamming up the thread. I was planning on rereading a 10 pages thread today and now it's a 15 page thread x_x

[Parama]

Oh god you'll never let me catch up. I have this totally big post together because I started writing notes down then I found like 100 things to write down on each page.

[Parama]

I'm writing a goddamn wall and finding all 3 scum. And I can only move so fast the way I'm doing it, and the thread is moving rather fast right now. It's not like you're the one generating content anyways. I'm really pissed at you after reading page 12 anyways.

[Parama]

Okay, and a massive analysis dump telling everyone everything they need to know about this game + finding 3 scum without having to look for links is scummy? I never even said anything about scum pairings, and I don't even think I've written anything about them yet (just finished page 13).

[Parama]

Why did I do this again.

Okay here's kinda a summary of the game thus far with my own analysis thrown in and tl;dr's at the end of each page for the lazy. And I linked every single post that I commented on for reference.

I’d go so far to say that it’s a

POWERFUL REREAD

.

Page 1: RVS happens. There's, shockingly, nothing useful here since nobody's posting content. SSBF posts some worthless, generic questions that are more of a distraction than anything.
+scumpoints SSBF (1)

Page 2: Andrius and Karma have a non-game related discussion. This is something that should've been done in PMs IMO. Anyways, Andrius asks a really weird RVS-esque question to TBM about his wagon... but I don't see how he's supposed to answer it. TBM wagon grows to L-2, and Karma asks the infamous question. I call him out based on a misunderstanding of this post, and he responds by telling us that his question is hypocritical.
+scumpoints Karma (2)

Page 3: Gamma joins in the Karma/Parama argument with goodlogic, Karma OMGUS votes me, and a wagon forms on him. Argument continues, no point in restating it. Kmd starts existing, calls Karma town, and votes SSBF who hasn't seen any pressure thus far, I agree with the second not with the first. Andrius' response towards being 3rd on a scumlist seems like an overreaction IMO. Overreactions are good scumtells. SSBF posts, votes Budja and states suspicion of Karma (FoS: Scumbuddy, Vote: Townie, anyone?) Not much else of interest happens on this page.
+scumpoints Karma (2)
+scumpoints Andrius (2)
+scumpoints SSBF (1)

Page 4: More of my Karma case, but then Karma pulls a 180 and randomly calls me town which looks more like an appeal than anything. Also SSBF talks about Karma posting IIoA but the posts he uses examples are 2 RVS posts and a helpful comment, plus singling out 3 posts of someone who has many more is silly. I don't think SSBF understands the case at all, he just wants to be on the most popular wagon. Kmd uses a Content-O-Meter to give his reasoning as to why Andrius is scum; a severe lack of content. My issue with this is that the same could be said about several players at that point in the game: dramonic, MrSuave, Empking come to mind first, probably others that I'm missing. Karma immediately jumps on the wagon with a blatant bandwagon. Karma tells the town to ignore me. I don't think a townie would say that. Ever. I do find it odd that Gamma holds off on a Karma vote even though he the second person to jump on Karma's case. Not sure what to think of that.
+scumpoints Karma (3)
+scumpoints SSBF (1)

Page 5: RC uses win-logic, then the top half of page 5 turns into useless spam. Though we get a reasonless scumlist from dramonic. Which is actually more content than half the game has posted, now that I think about it . TBM is now tunneling on Gamma without giving anything even close to content. Then there's more Me vs. Karma. Yeah there was a lot of spam here.
+scumpoints TBM (1)
+scumpoints Karma (1)

Page 6: Karma decides that the only way he can deal with me is by calling me dumbtown. Which just looks like sour scum to me. Kmd gives all his reads, not sure what to think of this as I hate when people give their town reads. Don't agree with his town reads on Karma or RC but the rest seems fine to me. Gamma restates his Karma case which is IMO full of win. Also I missed this quote from TBM when I was reading through the first time: "His posting style may be an affront to elegance everywhere but he doesn't strike me as dumb." I love the way that's phrased, it's like perfect ANYWAYS, Karma actually asks some useful questions after this, though his response to TBM is lackluster and useless.
Now I kinda want to break down this next post, it's important.

Andrius-dramonic usually plays like that from my experience, and I'm not actually sure if Kmd even got prodded considering we don't have a votecount yet for today.

k' thanks.

Okay you're going to be that quick about accepting a meta defense? No questions asked?

Andrius, you ask why you are one of my suspects.

ISO 0: Joke vote on Gamma.
ISO 1: Comment on Suave's avatar.
2: Response to Smash Bro's questions aimed at everyone
3: More Time Zone and Avatar talk.
4: Avatar related comment
5: Avatar talk, response to joke wagon on button, and vote count preference.
6: Asking about Reap's joke vote.
7: Response to contentless post, response to suspicion against you.

Ok wow. You're getting on me for participating in the RVS. RVS is a widely accepted way of starting out any mafia game.
And pardon me if I-heaven forbid!- answer the questions posed to me and- even worse!- try to laugh a bit in the game and have some fun.

I actually kinda agree with this, but you really haven't posted much more content since being called out (I think this post is his first in a couple of pages? correct me if I'm wrong)
*irrelevant Kmd prod talk*
*irrelevant weather joke*
*irrelevant comment towards RC*
*irrelevant comment about RC's shot*

Temp. Town read on SSBF. Playing like he did in the other game I know him from. RC is acting like RC does.

lolmeta
That doesn't work IMO.

I was told that making these types of lists were anti-town, way back when I first began playing.

While this is true, was this necessary to post?

...yeaaah. After this post I could probably agree with the case, lots of useless fluff and little real content in here. But I want to finish this reread thing before I put down a vote.

MOVING ON, dram calls out Karma for hypocrisy (he obviously understands my case), RC screws around some more, and SSBF thinks the Andrius wagon is bad and so continues to comment on Karma. The last line of that post is bugging me... it's either a super-townie reason for holding a vote or a potential FoS: Scumbuddy, Vote: Townie manuever. And I can't tell which. Empking then asks a question without providing content himself. Um, dude. That's exactly what I called out Karma for originally.
+scumpoints Karma (1)
+scumpoints Andrius (3)
+scumpoints Empking (1)

Page 7: Kmd post, not sure about the RVS thing since RVS ends at different times for different people, but his comment about the shot is all sorts of town. Also the same thing I got caught up on; SSBF-Andrius link is somewhat WIFOM. Also BOO meta. Gamma asks this awesome question. Kmd’s response – well I don’t agree with any of these, though the 2nd is the closest to being useful. And Gamma’s responses basically say why I don’t agree with them. More of RC screwing around, *sigh*. Oh and TBM posts a useless post too. The last line here is exactly what I said 0_o. This is best described by this. Or “WTF are you doing RC.” Gamma makes a good point because I don’t see why Karma has completely dropped TBM suspicions completely.
+scumpoints RC (1)
+scumpoints Karma (1)

Page 8: Bad answer IMO. Seems like a cop-out from Karma. RC actually gives reads-ish but doesn't elaborate at all. Well, he does and continues to not make sense at all because of it. The entire Karma-RC exchange is worthless IMO. SSBF seems a little overcautious here and I don't like that at all. This looks like LOLOMGUS. This is LOLYES.
Oh Andrius posted again. Another wall. BREAKDOWN TIME!

Andrius, I think we're more suspicious of you because you've kind of been popping in and out, asking weak questions, but not contributing to the game and discussion.

You think?

Either present a case on me that is original, or just say that you're following kmd's case because you're going to wagon anyone as long as they aren't you. You're just looking for a suitable wagon that is not on yourself.

I agree with this, tbh.

I'm also a little uncomfortable with ReaperCharlie. I'm getting a fairly scummy read on him, due to his lack of contents for the most part, however, I'm wondering if this is part of his play style, since people are giving him town reads.

I can't give him a town read because I don't know what he's like as scum. He reminds me of Jack, whose play is aslo similar and yet very confusing.
So that's a null on RC.

Null reads don't help at all. What's the point of this?

Hmm. I just looked at the "I'm lazy" in context and I'm really not seeing that coming from scum.

Whose "I'm lazy" was this?

^not reading the thread

Jesus, Gamma, you still care about that? That's soo 5 pages ago. Why would I care about the TBM wagon anymore when I think there's someone who I'm fairly confident is scum without a sizable wagon on him sitting around?

I'm pretty sure there are 2 people voting me. That's hardly a "sizeable wagon".

He said it

wasn't

a sizeable wagon. Again, not reading.

Also, if you're both town, I'd rather lynch you because he'll be more useful later on.

How so?

You expect a straight answer?

I don't get why people aren't seeing the case on Andrius.

Because they think you're the better lynch.
And only 2 players, yourself included, think I'm the best lynch for today.

Subject to change with the attitude you present here.

Oookay. Not as much fluff this time and some good points. But now it's evident that Andrius isn't putting in much true effort because of his lack of attention to detail.

Um, this post. That's scummy as all hell. *snicker* And this post is true as all hell. *snicker* Hey RC, care to point out some places where Andrius is being useful?
+scumpoints Karma (2) (you sick of seeing this yet? )
+scumpoints RC (1)
+scumpoints SSBF (1)
+scumpoints TBM (1)
+scumpoints Andrius (1)

Page 9: This post response time: Agree, said that earlier in this post, Gamma's right though, yup. Good. HOLY CRAP THIS POST IS FULL OF WIN. This one is stupid however. If he's acting scummy then he may well be scum, there's no need to involve gambits in this mess. Um RC, this contradicts this pretty blatantly. If he's being useless in this game, why does lolmeta make you feel he COULD be useful? If he's scum, wouldn't he continue to stay useless? On this post, the one who did the scumhunting originally was Kmd and you just followed on. But I guess you brought up good winpoints later. Please shut up. 3-part response: 1. lolmeta, 2. lurking is a nulltell, 3. active lurking is a scumtell. And if these are your top 3, why is your vote still on Gamma? It's been there since RVS hasn't it? 0_o 3-part response, the sequel: 1. Captain Obvious, 2. waiting with bated breath, 3. I love you for hating meta. Empking's post is full of 1. useless, 2. wishy-washy, 3. good question. Wow Empking actually posted something slightly useful, though it's still only a single question.
+scumpoints RC (1)
+scumpoints Andrius (1)
+scumpoints Empking (1)

Page 10: Lol random much, Empking?. The second part here is what I said Why must people make good points before I can point them out myself? Also waiting with bated breath. Sounds like I have fun times coming up in the next few pages. Whoa MrSuave is in this game? I jest, I jest. First paragraph: wishy-washy as hell. Second: you probably need more than a gut feeling at page 10. Fourth: not an excuse. I find it funny that one lurker is calling out another based solely on gut. Maybe MrSuave realizes that the only thing he could call out dramonic for was lurking but then that would be hypocritical so he had to go with "gut" instead. More good logic here from Karma, except the TBM thing, since Andrius makes lotsa long posts and TBM makes lotsa little ones. Good question here as well from RC. Dramonic's in this game? Screwing around again. Anyways, line about himself not posting content reads as town, TBM thing is bad meta, he brings up good points about both Karma and Andrius, newbcard on SSBF sucks, and I don't like him giving 4 town reads without giving any real scum reads. Not sure what to think about this post, rather ambivalent; some parts read as town, others are scummy. Don't think Karma quite understands IIoA, since unless I'm the one who is misunderstanding it, dram did more analysis than infodump, so I don't see how the term applies. I want RC to stop posting unless he has a real reason to post because I'm sick of his spam. Hey TBM "the active players" are the players who are actually playing, unlike you. Bad excuse, since you said in this same post that you like the wagon. But you just want there to be a second wagon so you stay off it. What? Um. I mean. What? This is worthless posting, Karma. TBM you really need to tell us what your issues with Gamma are because I haven't seen any and I think you're being either lazy, scummy, or both. Also wow my post you quoted is terribly worded x_x. Add a "that" after "so", otherwise it looks like something completely different. *grammarfail*. And look more RC spam. Ugh.
+scumpoints MrSuave (2)
+shut the hell up points RC (9999)
+scumpoints TBM (2)

Page 11: Hey Gamma stop giving town reads. Also your dram thing is lolmeta and the TBM thing I don't agree with. Also conditional scumreads are bad. Is this scum giving up? Hello, hypocrisy! Hello, worthlessness! Hello, more useless spam! *sigh* Oh, this game. BTW Kmd if you have a town read on someone you should never vote them regardless of the circumstances. Hey did you hear me? <.< Getting the feeling that Kmd may have voted Karma just to get him to claim; don't like that at all. This makes me even more uneasy since it fits in with that theory perfectly. And he switches right after the claim. UGH. DO NOT LIKE.
OH YAY IT'S SSBF'S ANALYSIS.

I hate how you're town.

Don't miss this people. Karma said he hated that Parama was town. This could indicate that he knows what alignment Parama is part of. Either they're masons, or more likely, scums. I'm leaning toward the latter.

Wait, so you think I'm scum with Karma and I've been bussing him all D1 for lulz? *headdesk*

Every vote I make is serious.

What about RVS votes? I thought RVS votes weren't serious. Also, your vote on Dramonic didn't look serious, so that contradicts your statement.

*headdesk* *headdesk*

Gamma needs more POWERFUL VOTES people.

Like seroiusly, random comments while we're actually scum hunting? Absolutely ridiculous.

Yup, TBM is best described as "ridiculous." Which could be scum or town. Thanks for lack of a stance.

SSBF's play isn't exactly what I'd call protown, but arguably he's a newb and my gut is writing a giant "TOWN!" on him

Let me just say that I am not a newbie. I may not be the best player in Mafiascum, but I don't want anyone to pull the "newbie" card with me (I won't be doing it either). I've been here almost long enough to mod.

^do like

This game has too many lurkers, this saddens me.

Uhhh, this makes you look really hypocritical. You haven't really provided much contents either.

Dammit, there goes another of my points. Again, do like^

Just needed to comment on some stuff. I already have my scum reads ready and I will explain them before midnight today.

Waiting with bated breath!

Just sayin SSBF but "fairly scummy" is way nicer than you make TBM sound from your analysis.
+scumpoints Gamma (1)
+scumpoints Karma (1)
+scumpoints TBM (1)
+scumpoints Kmd (1)

Page 12: Unnecessary softclaim is unnecessary. Gamma what was the point of that? Oh my god TBM it's not scummy it's just stupid. Yeah there was no town reason, but sometimes townies can do stupid things. Your tunneling is also stupid but it's scummy as well. Pretty sure I've already been over this and why I disapprove of the plan. TBM you're almost as annoying as RC. TBM: why would a scum? Huh? HUUUH? I mean Karma's basically got it right here. Did you have a good reason not to vote Andrius, TBM? Don't think you've been doing much all game except screaming "VOTE GAMMA" tbh. Also Gamma is a ninja. SHUT UP. FFS TBM YOU'RE JUST SPAMMING NOW. Wait, what? Have you ever talked about him, Karma? Okay this actually makes more sense but then it's still pretty risky IMO. Um TBM dude you started it. Oh great RC's back to spamming.
+scumpoints Gamma (1)
+scumpoints TBM (3)
+scumpoints Karma (1)

Page 13: This is the most irrational tunneling ever, TBM.. Even my top scumpick agrees. Gamma being the #2 supporter of the Karma wagon. Yep. TBM: Or you're scum and don't want apprentices to jump on a townie. TBM: it's because Karma's tunneling on Andrius, but his tunneling is backed by a case and by sanity, which yours lacks. Not saying that Gamma hasn't done scummy things but in comparison to Karma, Andrius, YOU, it's fairly minimal. Also what Kmd said - if Gamma wanted apprentices he would've outed his school, don't you think? TBM: But he DIDN'T claim his school and it doesn't look like he was or is planning to. WHOA WHOA WHOA bad buddying alert DO NOT WANT. LOL TBM's accusing me of being scum by association which doesn't work when 1. your target hasn't flipped yet and 2. your target is townier than the one making this accusation. THE TRUTH. Okay then dramonic thanks for that softclaim. Why do you think that? This is totally random and unnecessary and gives me bad vibes.
+scumpoints TBM (3)
+scumpoints Gamma (1)
+scumpoints dramonic (1)

Page 14: Hey TBM did you realize that Mod-WIFOM was how Karma picked Divination? I highly doubt any of the schools alone will tell us alignment. This is goodposting. TBM is assuming here since Gamma didn't specifically say that he didn't have a 0 apprentice spell, he might just have one that isn't useful. Or he may not have one, period. But you're trying to outguess the mod, which you just said was a bad thing. Um, hello? Karma tells TBM to shut up which is the right move, since TBM is spamming. Yes you have, TBM, and it's been quite irrational throughout the game. TBM, he asked you a question, and you chose to ignore it. And this is the same thing you accused Gamma of earlier. So chalk up hypocrisy yet again! We'd all love to know, Gamma. Oh how I wish I knew what the hell TBM's problem is. I approve of this post. This is the truth. No, complaining about spam knocks some sense into you people.
+scumpoints TBM (3)

Page 15: I approve of this except claims should always come at L-2. Karma stop trying to outguess the mod.
LONG ANDRIUS WALL IS LONG.

Alliances are not as great of an idea in mini-games, I've found out. There aren't as large of a pool of players, and there usually aren't competing scum factions. Scum presence in the alliance would be devastating to the town, whereas in a large game, it actually works out to a pro-town benefit quite well.

Now that my other huge game's over (longest one I've ever played), I'll be a lot more active and useful in this one.

Be afraid, scum.

*useless*
*useless*
You calling me scum? Without voting me? Odd.

Where the hell did that come from? He wasn't singling out anyone there. Overreact moare.

Andrius- Noooot really who I was expecting. So why aren't you voting...any of them?

What were you expecting then?
I'm still puzzled over RC's play, though I could vote him.

Bujda isn't playing. Simple as that. Lynching lurkers only goes so far. Since its not actual scumhunting in and of itself.

pre-post edit: So yeah. He's evidentially on V/LA.

Lol not reading.

So, Andrius, no comment on my last post?

What last post? *searches* Oh. That one. Idk how I missed it. Bored_Andrius failed at seeing your post.

Lol not reading.

And you're essentially doing the same thing. Following gamma/Parama's case on me. You hypocrite.

I am not a hypocrite. If I followed their case on you, I would be voting you, or campaigning for your lynch. I am doing neither. I am looking into getting the lurkers to play, since we have an incomplete town within a couple days of the deadline.

This suggestion is pro-town IMO.

So you only play by meta? Why not analyze his posts if you want to make a read on him?

No. I do not play by meta. It does have its uses though. I am analyxing his posts, but more knowledge is more knowledge. I am fairly certain that SSBF is town, so it might help me down the line somewhere.

All you've been using as evidence thus far is meta, though.

You misunderstood what I said. There's someone who I'm fairly confident is scum (you) sitting around without a sizable wagon on him. In layman's terms, I want more votes on you.

Oh. Perhaps I misread the line? :/

Yeah, you did. Lol not reading.

This reads exactly like arrogant scum.

Bored, VI_Andrius has an infamous sarcastic sense of humor.

Bad excuse.

I am very lazy, I admit.

Also bad excuse.
*RC-related fluff*

This game has too many lurkers, this saddens me.

Name them. (Dram and Budja are givens.) I'm not really lurking, persay. I'm posting consistently. Not as active as others, granted.

Not even gonna call him out for his uber-hypocrisy?
Also I just realized this now but TBM started spamming after he got called out for lurking.

*fluff about claiming*
*fluff directed towards Karma*
*modquestion about apprentices*

As for schools, I'm going to side with Karma. Divination makes me think of Professor Trelawney, so maybe its Cop/Foresight, both of which would be highly beneficial.
VOTE: TheButtonMen So, what exactly are you basing your vote on Gamma on anyway? The softclaiming a PR?

Wait. So here Andrius says Divination is probably coplike. Will come back to this later, awesome point to make when then time comes, hahaha this is awesome.
Also the TBM vote is buddying Gamma more than anything.

CONTINUING, Budja's only town read that he doesn't elaborate on is TBM who happens to be pretty scummy. Urgh. Not likin' that, at least give a reason if you're going to do it for everyone else too. More Gamma buddying, bad. Calling out lurkers I like though. Empking's not reading either considering Gamma just gave his stance on Budja in his previous post 6 hours earlier. Okay so back to Andrius, he claimed Diviner. His spells:

0 Apprentices: I target someone and see if they cast a spell or not. So that's basically a Watcher.
1 Apprentice: I target someone and see all the spells they can cast.
2 Apprentices: I become a TOWN NEIGHBORIZER. So I pick someone, and we share a QT for the rest of the game.
3 Apprentices: The person I target's spells are "empowered" and "hostile magic" is null against them for a night.
Guild Mark: I see all the night actions and who they target.

So why did you say

Divination makes me think of Professor Trelawney, so maybe its Cop/Foresight, both of which would be highly beneficial.

this earlier, if you knew Divination had nothing to do with cops? (though it's other investigative roles, if that's what you meant by "cop".) Still think this could be a slip from Andrius.
Lol. trying to outguess the mod again, TBM?. TBM, why does a wagon having active players make it bad? Because the people TRYING are leading a wagon = the wagon is scummy? Also Andrius, stupid setup speculation is stupid.
+scumpoints Andrius (2)
+scumpoints Budja (1)
+scumpoints Gamma (1)
+scumpoints TBM (1)

Page 16: Hey dramonic are you planning on actually doing something? Also TBM is just completely missing the point of this wall, though that's not necessarily scummy.
+scumpoints dramonic (1)

OH GOD I'M DONE.
Time to add up those scumpoints... *drum roll please*
...
SSBF has racked up 4 scumpoints.
Karma has earned himself 14 scumpoints.
Andrius has a grand total of 9 scumpoints.
TBM has accumulated 12 scumpoints.
Empking has garnered 2 scumpoints.
RC has spammed his way to 3 scumpoints.
MrSuave has lurked his way to 2 scumpoints.
Gamma's got himself 4 scumpoints.
Kmd picked up 1 scumpoint.
dramonic finds himself with 2 scumpoints.
Budja brought back 1 scumpoint.

Problem is I don't think this is an efficient way of building my scumlist - I want to say there's scum among the lurkers, and I'm positive that Karma and Andrius can't be buddies anyways.
Plus, the breakdown of scumminess: Karma had the most during the first half of the thread, Andrius had a lot in the middle third, and in the last quarter or so TBM has completely exploded and become really scummy. Andrius has a lower posting rate though so there's less to analyze than there is from the other two.

I also feel that TBM doesn't know how to bus, because he doesn't seem to want to pressure either of the top 2 wagons of the day, which probably contains a scum regardless of their claims.
Karma also doesn't seem to be pressuring TBM whereas Andrius is currently voting him (albeit with weak or no reasoning.)
I think a good scumlist would look like this:
TBM
[Lurker] (Empking/MrSuave are the worst and the most likely to be scum)
Karma

But I'm wary because Andrius' claim is more likely to come from scum than Karma's claim. Either way TBM is probably my top scumpick because the issues I have with him are more recent ones and Karma has improved a lot since the earlier pages. Having two lurkerscum would suck, I'd have to say.

Anyways the best place for a vote:

Vote: TheButtonmen

. I find it hilarious that we RVSed scum.

[Parama]

Holy crap I got really pissed at some people when I was writing that up xD It starts out calm and by the end I'm raging, didn't even notice that, hehe.

[Parama]

+shut the hell up points RC (9999)

[Parama]

His case on me is that I'm tunneling you.

Ain't that simple bro
There's irrational tunneling
There's randomly saying that both of today's major wagons are town and not giving reason
There's a lack of you providing a case
There's hypocrisy in both "lurking" comments and in "Mod-WIFOM" comments

About the only thing I can't yell at you for is tunneling, since I do that too. BUT your tunneling is completely irrational and I don't see why you would play as you have been playing if you were town.

[Parama]

D) Bullcrud, I'm not lurking nor am I trying to outguess the mod about schools.

You were lurking at the time you said "there are too many lurkers." You're not lurking now, no, but you were at the time.
And yeah what you were doing as definition trying to outguess the mod.
There's a difference between rational tunneling and irrational tunneling in the same way that there's a difference between lurking and active lurking; the former is a nulltell, while the latter is scummy.

[Parama]

At the rate this game is going, that's pretty lurky, to be honest.

[Parama]

And note that a lot of your posts contain little to no content
Also there's a 22 hour stretch of you not posting btw.

[Parama]

You post a lot and say little.

[Parama]

IT'S UNLOCKED
Well then. I kinda feel we were headed in the right direction then I made a fail and drove us in t he wrong one :/ Thinking that one of Andrius/Karma is almost certainly scum, and that Andrius' claimed spellbook is more likely to come from a scum (lololol mod-WIFOM I should shut up now <.<)

But I also think we have a little lurker problem in this here game, and another good option would be to lynch one of them. I'd say that there's a fair chance that at least one of {MrSuave, Empking, dramonic} is scum, and if I had to pick one right now I'd go with Suave first since there's some active lurking issues there as well (only seen a single post with content from him thus far, and I didn't like that one either :/)

But what I'm worried about is narrowing it down to half the town because if I'm absolutely wrong and the scum aren't in any of the 5 mentioned here. But tbh if 3 of {Budja, Gamma, Reaper, SSBF} are scum then they're doing a damn good job of it, because I don't see any way for there to be 3 scum in that grouping :/

So, what do you guys think? Should we look more at the Karma vs Andrius pairing or do we pressure the lurkers? Please don't merely echo my sentiments, I'd like to see some actual thought put into responses.

[Parama]

Meh, it's close enough

[Parama]

Quick question: RC, can you confirm that the list of spells that Andrius posted is really your list of spells?

[Parama]

Are we playing "outguess the mod" again? I'm not calling anyone as confirmed maf based on just their spell list.

[Parama]

I still think it's mod-WIFOM and I still like my group of You+Andrius+Lurkers for today.
By the way, would Andrius and Karma care to post the names of all their spells + guild mark?

[Parama]

Meh, I don't care if we massclaim or not. Considering that 4 POWERFUL WIZARDS are already claimed though I can't see why it'd hurt to massclaim now.

[Parama]

I trust that Gamma is town.
I'd like everyone to claim and everyone to GODDAMN POST SOME CONTENT FFS
Dramonic has active-lurked in all his posts today. Budja's posted but his post doesn't contain much. MrSuave doesn't even seem to exist. Empking's posts don't really bring much to the table either.

Seriously, when 4 of 10 players are lurking or active lurking I don't know what to think. Funnily enough I think they're all 4 of the apprentices though (unless SSBF didn't just softclaim being a POWERFUL WIZARD like I just did >_> <_<)

I still think we're all mod-WIFOMing though RC's spells do seem rather scum-sided in nature. If I had to note one thing I'd say that having a role that allows you to steal a vote even in 7-way or 5-way LyLo doesn't seem like something a mod would give to scum though. Meh. There we go with mod-WIFOM again.

[Parama]

MOD: Andrius is voting RC too I believe

I still think this is a giant game of "outguess the mod" but Reaper's making himself look worse every time he posts :/

[Parama]

Illusion

0 Apprentices: Ghost Sound: Sends an anonymous PM to another user.
1 Apprentice: Silent Image: I make myself untargetable for a night.
2 Apprentices: Mass Invisibility: I can make up to 3 players untargetable for a night (including myself).
3 Apprentices: Project Image: Target can cast two spells the following night.
Guild Mark: Nightmare: Target cannot cast spells for the remainder of the game as long as I am alive.

My Guild Mark name is why I think we're playing "outguess the mod" way too much. Yeah, it sounds scummy in name. I didn't make up the role, though. Mod-WIFOM sucks.
Also I Ghost Sound last night, and used a password to get around the anonymity because I don't see a need to remain anonymous. The player who received my PM knows who they are.

[Parama]

To be fair you really aren't helping yourself.
I was waiting for someone to ask me to claim - no need to claim if nobody asks me to, and I'd already softclaimed
And why is fixing a votecount a bad idea?

Also where am I pushing for your lynch? I've been defending you and I'm not voting you so <.<

[Parama]

And why is fixing a votecount a bad idea?

EBWOP: If the votecount is inaccurate then it needs to be fixed because vote count inaccuracies can lead to accidental lynches. I've been in a game where an incorrect vote count led to a lynch before the town wanted the lynch.

[Parama]

Oh god.

Parama, if you don't think Reaper is scum, who is?

One of you/Andrius
A lurkerpprentice (since apparently all the lurkers are apprentices unless someone's going to cc someone else)
???

I never said that Reaper couldn't be scum, but I'm saying the outside of the mod-WIFOM stuff he's just been acting stupid though his reactions to the wagon are pretty bad.

Yes. Gears of War mafia you're actually trying in.

You can't use meta from ongoing games <.<

Preview Edit: 5 posts in the time I was typing this up. Really?

[Parama]

Reaper is just voting anyone who's not himself to draw votes onto any wagon but his own! OMFG! scum!

[Parama]

I still think pressuring the lurkers is a good idea. We have plenty of time to do so, we're not even halfway through the day yet so :/

[Parama]

Would you care to provide something akin to "actual defense" instead of "useless AtE"?

[Parama]

AH you're right I keep forgetting about Suave.

^this is a problem
MrSuave needs to post content, replace out, or die. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The same goes for anyone who's lurking in this game (Emp, dram, Budja to a lesser degree).

[Parama]

Yes Kmd was town, and yes that means his reads are really his reads, but that doesn't mean they're right.

[Parama]

Vote: Andrius

What it looks like: Scum losing their mislynch try to put together a worthless ISO case to keep votes on the mislynch. I appreciate the effort Andrius but it actually makes you look worse.

[Parama]

I don't want Gamma to proxy his vote to me tbh. Sheeping =/= a good way to play.

[Parama]

Convince me you're town. You have yet to do so. If you cannot do this I will not be changing my vote. Why did you freak out and post a massive case AFTER the RC wagon started to break down? That's something that should have been done beforehand - the way you went about it looks like scum panicking because they're afraid to lose a mislynch.

[Parama]

Andrius has approx 10 hours from this post to defend himself. Then someone needs to drop a hammer on him if: A. he doesn't or B. he does and the defense sucks. I know there are 5 hours past that until deadline. But I'm not pushing this day all the way until deadline. There's no reason for that.

[Parama]

*headdesk* Don't tell me that's a direct quote from your role PM *headdesk*

[Parama]

I'd still like him to respond, but you can go for it if need be. If he modkills that's going to happen first though :/ *sigh* RC you really are an idiot, you know that?

[Parama]

Hey SpyreX if you modkill can you let us have a lynch first?

Well, assuming RC flips town. If he flips scum then day continues for the 5 minutes it takes for SpyreX to write up a lynch scene for Andrius. Though that means a dead scum anyways

[Parama]

I guess the blocking worked .

VOTE: Empking

Also Karma, Reaper, Parama, Gamma are all town.

^I agree

Vote: MrSuave

I seriously think he's a better lynch though.

Also people saying SSBF should Heart of Stone me tonight - he already did .-.

[Parama]

.-.
Can we lynch Suave tomorrow if Emp flips town?
Actually Suave will end up getting modkilled at this rate
Can you maybe prod him, SpyreX?

[Parama]

*sigh*
Well I'm going to wait for him to say something before I vote, and I'd like to hear from the 3 people who have yet to show up.

Also I know SSBF used his guild mark because the mod told me that I am now unkillable aside from lynching.

RC I think the school is there because you're still alive - so far schools have only been disappearing when the wizard of the school dies.

Karma, there was a mass-roleblock on all but 3 players which resulted in no apprentices being able to join a school.

[Parama]

Guild Marks are a twilight action, so they can't be blocked in the manner than night actions were.
At least I think.

[Parama]

You should read the thread.

[Parama]

MrSuave is still a better lynch than Emp :/
Though if MrSuave is getting modkilled then whatever.
Dramonic's reaction to RC's vote on Gamma is lolscumslip?

[Parama]

Obvious townies:
RC
SSBF
Gamma

PoE scum:
Budja
dramonic

But that doesn't fit with my theory D: I think one of my town reads is scum ;_;

oh yeah but dramonic can die because he's way scummier than Budja kthx d(''d)

[Parama]

Oh wow I didn't

vote: dramonic

*headdesk*

[Parama]

What do you think of Gammagooey being scum?

I'd cry if it were true.

But...
RC is basically confirmed town because he was the Andrius counterwagon
I don't see scum-SSBF making me NK immune

oh god whyyyyyyyy

[Parama]

Lol that was the hammer.

[Parama]

.
Well, dram ought to be scum anyway.
You ought to stop a NK and we ought to have another two lynches.

Yeah it's pretty likely that I'll stop the NK, this isn't even really MyLo when you think about it

[Parama]

I'd post my action in-thread but it'd just tell scum who to kill.

[Parama]

Gamma, there's really no reason to shoot now <.< Considering I'm unkillable and I can make 3 other people unkillable and untargetable...

[Parama]

Because lynches are cooler? And because SSBF is town?

[Parama]

What's your guild mark? .-.

[Parama]

Last night I used mass invisibility on everyone but you, Gamma, so you wouldn't be able to "vig" anyone <_<
Considering RC is nice and CONFIRMED TOWN and SSBF is NEARLY CONFIRMED TOWN and Budja is PROBABLY TOWN by my theory that states that a scumteam with only one wizard is underpowered thus the scum have 2 wizards
I THINK YOU MAY BE SCUMZ GAMMA

Vote: Gammagooey

WHYYYYYYYY you were so awesometown nearly all game but now you look like the scum ;_;

[Parama]

oh yeah forgot to mention I'm V/LA 7/17-7/24 which means that I'm going to send SpyreX my night actions now and won't be here for the rest of the day and probably the rest of the night. It also means I might end up mass-invisibility'ing the lynchee because I won't be around to see who's lynched :/

[Parama]

Yeah, this is pretty much a won game. With my magical powers of invisibility we have 3 more lynches to use and I have a 100% town read on RC so if this DOES get down to 3-way I'll be certain on the last scum

P.S.: Spyrex, my role is kinda broken, you might want to fix that if you ever run a similar type of game

[Parama]

I've never been lynched as town I've only been lynched as SK and that was a game with 6 SKs and 4 of them were on my lynch wagon, hehe.

[Parama]

Vote: Budja

I have access! sending in actions right now

[Parama]

I wish I played scum this good every game.
I was like "Lol why does everyone think I'm town? My interactions with Andrius sucked" but then I just decided to rol with it and so yeah