Mini 991 - POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA (GAME)

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VOTE: ReaperCharlie

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P.S. This game is gonna be sweet.

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Hahaha, exactly

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@SSBF: Pacific Time (represent!). And RVS.

What were you trying to accomplish with those questions (mostly the last one)

@Andrius: I gotta know where you got an avatar like that.

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No, not really.

But your avatar is so cool I might have to become one.

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Hahahaha, become a Fire Emblem fan.

Although I could see myself wearing a sweet hood/cape thing.

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So this is L-2. Buttonmen, anything to say?

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@Parama: I was not pressuring him for a defense. I was asking him his opinion of the wagon, the players on it, etc.

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I'm lazy.

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@Dram: No.

Why did you ask if you weren't looking for a defense?

I was looking for answers to the questions I later asked. Sue me.

You can give your own opinions too, which you don't seem to be doing right now - all you've posted since my vote are responses.

Jesus, you give me like 5 HOURS (in which I'm busy doing stuff) to post. It's not like I've been lurking or anything.

UNVOTE: ???

POWERFUL

VOTE: Parama for seriously coming at me with that half-assed attempt at a case. If someone calls this OMGUS I will punch their cat, dog, fish, and/or mother.

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Dear Karma: Your vote is stupid, no matter what you want or don't want people to call it. Way to vote one of the only people scumhunting.

Scumhunting = town tell
"Scumhunting" using craplogic = not a town tell

Parama is "scumhunting" using craplogic.

Do you still care about what Button thinks of his earlier wagon?

Yes. Very much so, actually.

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@Parama: Your original case on me was based on a misunderstanding. I told you that, and you should've unvoted.

But no, you had to push.

Example: Why did you ask if you weren't looking for a defense? You can give your own opinions too, which you don't seem to be doing right now - all you've posted since my vote are responses.

You posted this 5

hours

after I posted clarifying my question to TBM. At this point, I don't even know what you're calling me out for. It can't be lurking, since I wasn't doing that. I had already talked about why I asked the question.

You just went from mildly scummy to caught scum.

You calling me "caught scum" after continually misunderstanding me and not even making any sort of tangible case is scummy, so I voted you. Maybe I overreacted. I can be a dick sometimes. You still have no tangible case against me. Make one.

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@Parama: I'm seriously thinking you're confusing me with someone else.

Yes but what you asked is hypocritical, which is the problem. This is exactly my point.

Now Parama, we were on Page 2. There's not a whole lot to analyze. I want a reaction from TBM about his wagon. That's all. Calling me hypocritical for responding when not everyone is even posting is a huuuge stretch. My later responses, which you found hypocritical were:

1. Clarifying your original misunderstanding of my question
2. Saying "I'm lazy." I am lazy, and I didn't have 5 minutes for a "quick analysis." Sorry.

What does this mean? Considering you haven't asked any questions since the one directed towards Gamma, I have no clue what you're trying to say here.

...I've never directed any questions towards Gamma.

tl;dr for those of you who hate Walls o'text:

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Whoops I totally meant to hit "Full Editor," not submit. Ignore the last part (tl;dr) of the previous post.

Anyways, let me continue.

Though you really did overreact to my point. And OMGUSed because of it. Yes, your vote is OMGUS. You didn't do anything to disprove my case and you haven't made any good points against me.

No, my vote is not OMGUS. You presented a case based on a misunderstanding - that was that. I cleared it up. The issue should have been taken care of right then and you should have moved on. Calling me hypocritical for asking for analysis from TBM on PAGE FUCKING 2 is fucking scummy. Why don't you attack Andrius - all he's done is ask questions. Why don't you attack 3/4 of the players here for "not providing any analysis"?

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Oh yeah, @Kmd: Use "bookmark this thread" at the bottom. They're basically watched topics.

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Karma is also scummy. The attacks he has been making has been mostly flimsy. His defense has also been crap, not to mention he isn't doing well under pressure. A few of his posts has been IoA.

Explain how my defense is "crap" and which posts are IoA.

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Why your defense is crap: Parama made very good points against you and you basically dismissed them. I honestly hated that you said you were lazy (Not an excuse), used the "Don't call this post OMGUS!" excuse, which is very scummy. And as Parama pointed out, you overreact to stuff.

Parama's points were NOT. GOOD. He calls my question hypocritical when it wasn't. He didn't give me a chance to do any analysis - it's not that it was Page 2 more than it is a short period of time during which I really did have some RL stuff going on, believe it or not. TBM never gave me a response. I was planning to analyze it, see if it looked scummy.

Parama says this himself, right here:

Though I will say asking good questions generates info for the town...

I thought asking TBM for a response on his wagon would generate info for the town. I agree, my "anything to say?" question was vague and useless. But asking him how he felt about the speed, the players on it, etc. is a good question.

And SSBF, I don't care if you hate that I'm lazy. I am. Get over yourself.

And those IoA posts were not IoA. 2/3 of them were fluff and one of them was a legitimate attempt to help out. If you're going to call fluff in the RVS scummy then I don't even know what to do. You're seriously misunderstanding the term.

However, I slept on it, and I realized my frustration with Parama makes this really feel like town on town. Parama's attacks are wrong and horribly misguided but he's trying, which I can't say for most of the town.
UNVOTE: Parama

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I like the feeling of a nice warm Andrius wagon.

VOTE: Andrius

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But Andrius is more active-lurky than the rest.

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I think it's in the town's best interests to just ignore the drivel that comes out of Parama's mouth.

I've explained why it wasn't hypocritical and you keep calling it that. You completely ignored my post before my Andrius vote.

I hate how you're town.

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Do you know how to read?

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I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

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@Gamma: Andrius, SSBF, quite possibly you. Empking is also useless but hasn't posted enough.

Parama, you haven't addressed my pre-Andriusvote post even after I reminded you of it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a mistake, but you're ignoring my perfectly logical and correct defense. So read it and tell me that you've realized the error of your ways.

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Alright, I'm over the whole Parama vs. me thing - I can't change him. I'll just resign myself to the fact that he's dumbtown.

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Didn't realize I've kept calling him town. But he is certainly a moron.

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@Gamma: So do you think kmd inserting his own name into the "awesometown" list is scummy?

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@Buttons: Andrius is scummiest ATM.

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I see.

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@Dram: Your vote on me was cause I said I was lazy. Do you agree with Parama's/Gamma's case on me? Do you still feel I'm the right place to leave your vote?

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Andrius, I think we're more suspicious of you because you've kind of been popping in and out, asking weak questions, but not contributing to the game and discussion.

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How is completely ignoring TBM's lack of comment on something he supposedly Very Much wanted to hear about town?

I was too busy defending myself.

@Mod: I'm voting Andrius.

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Hey guys, we need to focus on the real scum here: Andrius.

Ok wow. You're getting on me for participating in the RVS. RVS is a widely accepted way of starting out any mafia game.
And pardon me if I-heaven forbid!- answer the questions posed to me and- even worse!- try to laugh a bit in the game and have some fun.

But you were posting things about once a day - you weren't looking. During that time, un-RVS related things were happening that you could've, and should've commented on. Every part of your post where that quote comes from (god I miss post numbers) is fluff, IIoA, or useless meta reads.

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EBWOP to that post: I said "looking" when I meant "lurking." I feel like a dumbass.

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RC who was that sarcasm directed towards?

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Jesus, Gamma, you still care about that? That's soo 5 pages ago. Why would I care about the TBM wagon anymore when I think there's someone who I'm fairly confident is scum without a sizable wagon on him sitting around?

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I thought it would be useful at the time. Now it's not. Things change.

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Because faaar more important things have happened.

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Why?

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Is that a joke? Andrius has contributed a huge pile of nothing.

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...I think you're misunderstanding the term.

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I don't get why people aren't seeing the case on Andrius.

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Lol too bad my question wasn't hypocritical but whatever

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Oh, ninja'd. Andrius' last post was scummy as all hell. I'll elaborate when I get the chance.

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Andrius, I think we're more suspicious of you because you've kind of been popping in and out, asking weak questions, but not contributing to the game and discussion.

You think?

Either present a case on me that is original, or just say that you're following kmd's case because you're going to wagon anyone as long as they aren't you. You're just looking for a suitable wagon that is not on yourself.

I'm following kmd's case, sure, but without people following others' cases, you get nowhere in mafia. I think his case is accurate and that you're scum. Where do you get the idea that I'm going to "wagon anyone?" I've only made 3 votes - one RVS vote, one on Parama, and one on you. The first two were not wagon votes, and the one on you doesn't even count as a wagon - it's only two votes.

And you're essentially doing the same thing. Following gamma/Parama's case on me. You hypocrite.

I'm also a little uncomfortable with ReaperCharlie. I'm getting a fairly scummy read on him, due to his lack of contents for the most part, however, I'm wondering if this is part of his play style, since people are giving him town reads.

I can't give him a town read because I don't know what he's like as scum. He reminds me of Jack, whose play is aslo similar and yet very confusing.
So that's a null on RC.

So you only play by meta? Why not analyze his posts if you want to make a read on him?

Hmm. I just looked at the "I'm lazy" in context and I'm really not seeing that coming from scum.

Whose "I'm lazy" was this?

Doesn't this show your laziness

Jesus, Gamma, you still care about that? That's soo 5 pages ago. Why would I care about the TBM wagon anymore when I think there's someone who I'm fairly confident is scum without a sizable wagon on him sitting around?

I'm pretty sure there are 2 people voting me. That's hardly a "sizeable wagon".

You misunderstood what I said. There's someone who I'm fairly confident is scum (you) sitting around

without

a sizable wagon on him. In layman's terms, I want more votes on you.

I don't get why people aren't seeing the case on Andrius.

Because they think you're the better lynch.
And only 2 players, yourself included, think I'm the best lynch for today.

This reads exactly like arrogant scum.

But the biggest flaw I have with Andrius is that even when people call him out for it and he's prodded to do so repeatedly, he absolutely REFUSES to provide any content, any scumreads, anything. This post is just telling me to make an "original" case on him, followed by padding of useless meta-null reads, fluffy questions that could be answered with a quick re-read, and telling me that people think I'm scummy. A whole steaming pile of IIoA and STILL. NO. SCUMHUNTING.

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You repeatedly calling yourself scummy - you can analyze that. I think it could very well a crazy scum gambit. It's analyzable.

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It could be a crazy scum gambit. Too early to tell if it is.

What do you think about andrius, RC?

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Why is posting lik Andrius' more useful than mine?

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But, you see, I had to argue. I was being pressured. And now I've consciously scumhunted Andrius.

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I have to admit, that made me chuckle.

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@Empking: I'm an alt, so, yes, I do have quite a bit of experience.

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So, Andrius, no comment on my last post?

Your scumhunting efforts are crap. Let's look at your suspects, shall we?

RC: Someone who's acting scummy, obviously on purpose. You say he's acting out of character, when earlier, you said this:

RC is acting like RC does.

Yeah. And your case on RC (your number one suspect) is still based entirely on meta, which is not something to build an entire case on. It can be supplementary, but that's about it.

Budja: Lurker. Not necessarily a scumtell, but lurkers make easy targets for scum to pick on when they don't want to actually try and scumhunt.

TBM: Andrius says he's active lurking, even though Buttons has 13 posts and Andrius has 14, with about 1/3 of them being fluff. So for him to call out Buttons for active lurking is again, quite hypocritical.

Andrius- Noooot really who I was expecting. So why aren't you voting...any of them?

And then there's this, which is a great point.

Guys, deadline's in two days and we need to lynch Andrius ASAP. If you don't understand my case or don't agree with it, please tell me because just ignoring it is the wrong thing to do at this point.

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So besides Andrius, who is your biggest scumread, Karma?

SSBF, who's played way too many games to have people pull the newbcard on him. Dramonic is pretty ehhh too.

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General uselessness in the early game and a big slice of IIoA (besides the part about me and kind of the part about andrius) with that last post.

RC, others (like dram) pulling it for him. I don't think he's talked about it.

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I think you're either crazy scum or crazy town. Either way, it's a crazy null read ATM.

And I can't tell you my alt-hood! Just know that I am one.

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So be all over the Andrius wagon guys! We have cookies!

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Gamma wagon would provide better contrast and has a better chance of exposing scum.

Yeah, but Andrius is scum...Gamma I'm uncertain about.

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Gamma - who are said scumreads?

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The thing is, I won't. Can you please trust me on this?

See, I realize that if Andrius flips town (which I really don't think he will), I'll come under some SERIOUS scrutiny tomorrow. I understand that. I'm willing to take that chance if you guys will just go with me and kmd and lynch Andrius today, and if he flips scum (which I really think he will) we can re-evaluate.

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Hell, I'll admit it was AtE. My logical arguments seem to be failing even though I can't see any flaws in 'em.

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I

really

don't want to claim. Can we just say I'm a very POWERFUL WIZARD and leave it at that?

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Dear town,

I just wanted to say thanks for getting a very fucking powerful wizard NKd tomorrow.

I am the abjurer. I'm taking the loss of SpyreX very personally, cause I could have prevented it with my magical powerz. With no apprentices, I am a doctor, essentially. With one apprentice (which I have now) I am basically a jailkeeper. With more apprentices I become even more magical. I'll get into it if you want me to.

So yeah. You guys should probably vote Andrius right about now.

Love, Karma <3

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Since I'm fucking getting NK'd anyways, I guess I'll tell you my other abilities cause why not?

Two apprentices: the person I pick knows all spells that targeted them that night.
Three apprentices: any spells cast upon the person I pick get reflected back upon the person who cast them.
Guild Mark: All spells cast upon the person I pick fail, and the target subsequently gains those spells in their spell book. The targeter loses the spells permanently and I become an apprentice.

If someone out there has a way and can find it in their hearts to let me live until tomorrow, I would love you forever.

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I don't think scum would softclaim a PR (or is it PW in this game? ) on D1, honestly.

Button, please vote Andrius.

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I'll agree to a gamma lynch only (and ONLY) if it's unavoidable at deadline. Other than, it's gotta be Andrius.

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You know, I realized that nowhere in my role PM does it say I can't protect myself. Hm.

Also, if I die, does my apprentice become the abjurer? Just throwing this out to the town.

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Why is that, buttons?

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I actually like kmd's plan.

ALL YOU APPRENTICES, PICK DIVINATION. I'm fairly certain it's a cop-like role so the powers could be quite useful, and I don't see how it's a scumgroup either.

And Kmd, I couldn't do anything N0. I PM'd SpyreX about it, actually. He told me it was only apprentices.

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No need to discuss, though, Buttons. It's Andrius.

Not seeing your case on Gamma. I can see why both town and scum would softclaim like that, and Gamma's been acting quite protown.

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But apprentices should just pick divination and that ruins any chance of putting them in a scumgroup.

Have you read what divination is?

Wikipedia

It's definitely coplike and almost definitely not scum.

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Gamma, are you arguing that I'm not picking a pro-town school?

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What aren't you seeing about Andrius?

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Buttons, do you disagree with the plan now?

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Evocation could also be scum. Divination is a much safer choice.

Buttons: Gamma has been acting quite pro-town. He's been scumhunting. You don't have

anything

on him except his softclaiming, which I totally see as a null-tell to even a slight town-tell. He probably did want more apprentices and probably was setting up a fullclaim, but if he was scum, he would have had to either:

a. Make the abilities of his probably scummy-sounding school of magic (necromancy?) not scummy, which is hard to do and not worth it on D1 for scum IMO.

b. Fakeclaim with a different school of magic, which doesn't make sense cause it's, well, not him.

Now you tell me: What don't you get about the phrase "Andrius is scum?"

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You still refuse to even mention Andrius. Why is that?

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And i've told you why I don't think gamma's scum.

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Why is he town?

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Meh I guess you're right.

I could go for a button wagon if nothing pans out with Andrius. I ISOd him and he has still provided no case on gamma. He just calls him scum. With a case, the scum-calling would be okay but Buttons has nothing.

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What a useless SSBF post.

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Doing it randomly is a terribad idea. Even though it's mod-WIFOM the names have something to do with the powers, and giving a whole school of magic to a scum role-cop just doesn't seem anywhere in the realm of possibility.

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To not have any sort of town investigative role seems strange to me, and divination is the most obvious choice for one.

Sheesh. Whatever.

Buttons, I think you're going to have to get it through your head that we're not lynching gamma today unless it has to be done to prevent a NL. Being stubborn on this is anti-town, and if you're scumbuddies you're going to have to bus at some point anyway.

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Andrius, if you're softclaiming some sort of protective role you should probably just fully claim unless other people think that's a bad idea.

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Conjuration is okay, I suppose. I mean it's not as sketchy-sounding as some of the other ones (OMG modWIFOM even though the names obviously closely relate to the powers).

Here's a nice site for learning about these magical schools: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org ... hools.html

vote: button

. A tip: conciseness is protown, but only when backed by a solid case. You never did that.

Parama, what makes you doubt my claim?

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Well, shit, I read my role wrong. It's not jailkeeping with one apprentice, it's roleblocking.

Anyways, I blocked empking, and nothing really seemed to happen.

I agree that Suave/Budja/Emp need to post a hell of a lot more, and I want more from SSBF too. He's been kind of under the radar.

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Dispel Magic. Really, I'm sorry about that.

Then again (OMG WIFOM) if I was lying about the role in the first place why would I lie about misreading it?

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I do appreciate the gain of apprentices. Actually, now that I have two apprentices, I can confirm my role during the night - the person I target will know all the spells that affected them.

Well hey, now onto the scums.

VOTE: Andrius

I still think it's a good idea.

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I'm sorry, but the spells Andrius learned about sound hugely scummy. "Dominate Person"? Come on now. What would be the harm in outing the target? Causing another claim?

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unvote, vote: ReaperCharlie

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Parama - how do those spells sound pro-town? I think we kind of have to play outguess the mod here. If there's a spell called "Dominate Person" that doesn't sound particularly nice.

I'm fine with a massclaim, by the way.

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Sure.

No apprentices - Shield. Doc protection.
1 apprentice - Dispel Magic. Roleblocker.
2 apprentices - Guards and Wards. Person knows all the spells that targeted them.
3 apprentices - Spell Turning. Spells cast on target reflect onto caster.

Gamma - my Guild Mark doesn't appear to be a twilight action.

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@Parama and SSBF - what do you think of a massclaim?

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Heh. Sorry.

But then again I don't see a problem in telling you the name of my guild mark if you want it.

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Sounds good to me.

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RC. You start.

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RC. No. We have your spell names already, claim.

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Exactly.

Also, those spells don't really scream "enchantment," do they?

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So...how in the fuck is that town? Especially when I'm already (partially) a town roleblocker?

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WAIT GUYS.

KMD was slain via Magic Missile.

Magic Missile is an evocation spell.

Gamma claimed evoker.

Therefore, Gamma is scum.

This is not mod-WIFOM. This is truth.

UNVOTE: RC
VOTE: Gamma

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Gamma, get your ass in here and explain this. I want a fullclaim.

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Claim. Now.

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Reaper, you're retarded.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Magic_Missile
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicMissile.htm
http://grandwiki.wikidot.com/prcenvoker (note the spells/abilities)

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Explain how in D&D and basically fucking everywhere, Magic Missile is an evocation spell.

And fullclaim.

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Well you probably should have done some reading and noticed that "Arcane" spells don't appear to have anything to do with this game.

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I've already fullclaimed.

Gamma.

Claim and explain this to me.

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Nope, I've claimed multiple times. Find it yourself.

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Hm.

I looked up all your spells. They check out.

I just don't see which other school of magic would have Magic Missile. It doesn't fit anywhere else.

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Gamma, of the remaining schools, which one has Magic Missile as a scum-killing utility?

Also, didn't you say you had no zero-apprentice ability? You do, even though it is flavor only.

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Yeah, I agree. Who are you on, Emp?

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Yeah. UNVOTE: Gamma

VOTE: ReaperCharlie

He's still scum.

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Yeah, pretty sure you are. Your spells are

very

indicative of a scum roleblocker.

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Yes, RC, you would have. Andrius used his ability on you so we already knew the spell names. Your best bet was to use your original abilities and hope they would be considered town.

SSBF - who did you target last night? And who do you want to claim next?

I don't have any knowledge of D&D either - just some simple googling.

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Yay dram <3

I think you're basically right about Gamma, though. BUT that's more because he's acted pro-town this game than it is completely giving up on the mod-WIFOM. I still think it holds some importance.

So, what do you think the scumteam is made of? 3 POWERFUL WIZARDS? 2 wizards, one scum-apprentice? Is this setup speculation completely useless?

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Question - would SpyreX give the scum a fakeclaim?

Probably yes. That's what makes me still sliiightly suspicious of gamma.

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RC is obvscum.

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Yay emp <3

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RC continues to joke instead of actually defending himself.

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The case against you is that:

A. Your spells sound extremely scum-like
B. You haven't scumhunted or been pro-town at ALL.

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That's your defense? Really?

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What is your case on me? I am a claimed abjurer. Do you doubt the claim? Do you think that the spells/names I've provided are indicative of scum?

E. If my powers would be useful to scum, they'd also be useful AGAINST scum, no?

This means nothing. Absolutely nothing.

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By the way, Parama, I'd like you to claim.

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Yeah, your complaining about mod-WIFOM makes more sense now that you've claimed. I don't think you're scum either but I can see how those spells could be misconstrued.

Honestly, though, my vote on Reaper is more about his play than his spells, although the spells add a supplementary layer to the case.

And I guess that leaves Mr. Suave as the last apprentice, the one on Illusion right now.

I still have my eye on SSBF. His spells could very well be scum abilities too, if you think about it. Making you/your buddy NK-immune, taking away spells, the clone thing.

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Parama, if you don't think Reaper is scum, who is?

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Yes. Gears of War mafia you're actually trying in.

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P.S. Ongoing game so if that's against the rules it can be deleted

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I know, I know, but Reaper asked for it.

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Gamma, do you have enough apprentices for a vig-shot? If so, I'll vote empking and use your shot on RC. If not, I'll wait for SSBF clarification.

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Oh. Didn't want to bother to check the apprentice tallies. Thanks, though.

Basically, I get Gamma's point about wanting to lynch Emp to prevent a no-flip from Reaper, buuuuut stalling of an obvscum lynch doesn't give me great vibes.

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Hahah I can understand the desire.

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Ooh Andrius I hope you neighborize me and we can hang out and talk and stuff about cool avatars

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So, gamma, ready for that Reaper lynch now?

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Deadline's Monday.

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Wouldn't be too against it, although my 3-apprentice spell is BADASS if I hit the person who's gettin' NK'd.

And if we lynch Emp there's only two apprentices left.

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AH you're right I keep forgetting about Suave.

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Gah. My brain says yes, but my heart says no.

UNVOTE: ReaperCharlie

I'll see what's up and make a vote.

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I'd vote Andrius but I want to wait for a VC first.

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Kay.

VOTE: Andrius

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SSBF essentially quoted his PM. IDK how bad RC's was compared to that.

Still, though, great idea for a mass-block. Me likey. And apprentices can gerroff me if you want to, cause I'm pretty useful with none (I like to think)

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Yeah, would really hate to have a modkill though. Hmph.

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I like the empking vote.

VOTE: Empking

I used my spell (Guards and Wards) on Reaper, if it matters at all.

By the way, apprentices, what happened?