Mini 932: Let's all be friends (Over)

[don_johnson]

i think the main issue with that post was its direct contradiction to sean's next post where he votes ice for basically no reason. i'm not sure what you are reading into it or why you would be reluctant to say more. perhaps you are noticing sean's mention of the scum or sk. that would certainly bolster his "newbie" defense as it is consistent with his previous answer to your question of his previous knowledge. however, his next post basically exhibits the same behavior he is condemning in 102. i honestly have no idea of knowing sean's experience level and so i would admit that that is the weakest part of the case against him as he may very well be telling the truth there, but i am also in the position of knowing he is 100% scum, so most of what i produce is going to be ripe with that bias.

i think if you look at that post in the context of his actions you will see exactly why sean was run up on day 1. to that end, he stalled on the claim, and knowing now that the scum were a two man team, that stall would have enabled him enough time to search for an obscure claim which wouldn't definitely result in an either/or lynch situation(i.e. like a "doc" claim usually does).

also, there was very little reason to even speculate on the existence of an sk at that point in time, so i guess you could look at it as a "slip" that sean knew full well that the scum team was only two players and so the chances of there being an sk were greatly increased. or his experienced scum partner could have enlightened him to that fact in pre game talk, if such talk was allowed.

[Cuetlachtli]

also, there was very little reason to even speculate on the existence of an sk at that point in time, so i guess you could look at it as a "slip" that sean knew full well that the scum team was only two players and so the chances of there being an sk were greatly increased. or his experienced scum partner could have enlightened him to that fact in pre game talk, if such talk was allowed.

This is why I am leaning towards Sean right now. He has already stated that his only experience with the game of Mafia prior to this game was in the real life party setting. I have played Mafia at a couple parties and we never used any complex setups with Serial Killers, trackers, watchers, bus drivers, etc. Each game we played used the basic setup (nillas, cop, doc, goons), that is why I am skeptical that Sean would even know that the Serial Killer role even exists in the world of Mafia. That said, there is absolutely no reason for a townie to mention a possible SK on Day 1 when there is no evidence that there is one in the game.

I am going to hold off on hammering Sean for the time being just because I have the luxury to reread the whole game.

[Cuetlachtli]

Moar random comments:

Post 246 on page 10 looks like a good foil to post 102. Don mentions three possible scum candidates, which means he was assuming we were in a 3:9 setup at that point in the game. Either Don is part of the uninformed majority or he is posting routine scum bs. The fact that Don assumed that there were 3 scum while Sean assumed that there was a SK on Day 1 bodes well for Don.

[Cuetlachtli]

I guess one argument for town-Sean would be the fact that Hoop was part of the Day 1 Sean wagon very early on. The counter argument for town-Sean would be that Hoop had coached Sean in the pregame and they had a fake claim prepared prior to Day 1. This would explain the urgency of post 247 on page 10 where Hoop exclaims in bold for "Sean [to] claim in [his] next post."

To be continued.....

[Cuetlachtli]

Post 329...Don hammers sidekick before he claims. Neg points for Don. Seems too blatant to be a scum move. Most likely Don hammered out of bad form.

[Cuetlachtli]

Post 444, page 18:

Hoop sells the idea that everyone should believe Sean's claim since he is a newbie. This is also the third time that he is reminded the town that Sean is too newbie to fake claim (ISO 25 and 35).

This is important because this is exactly why I never question Sean's claim all game.

More later...

[Cuetlachtli]

Post 483, page 20:

Hoop seems focused on getting the SK on Day 2 rather then finding the "mafia." This ties well with post 102 because it seems like hypo-scummies Hoop and Sean are very concerned with finding the SK and lynching him. Obviously, the mafia would be afraid of the SK because that is the only role that they are mortally vulnerable to at night. Since there are only 2 mafiosos, getting the SK early on is imperative for a scum victory.

[Cuetlachtli]

Day 2-3:

Hoop has been pushing for a lynch on Budja, while ignoring Sean. Hm...

[Cuetlachtli]

Ok I am hammering Sean on Monday or Tuesday unless he tells me why I shouldn't. I will then review his rebuttal and decide whether or not I want to do more deliberating.

[Cuetlachtli]

Ok I am tired of waiting. Sorry if I am wrong graveyard.

vote: DisgruntledSean

Don...if you are there please tell me if the town or scum won.

[don_johnson]

town here. i'm glad you came at this with an even keel. yours is never an easy position.

[Cuetlachtli]

town here. i'm glad you came at this with an even keel. yours is never an easy position.

This is great news! You know I have literally been wrong all game, I am glad I finally got something right. The odds were really stacked against you going into the last day. Great job arguing your side.

[julienvonwolfe]

Vote Count No. 34:

DisgruntledSean (2) don_johnson, Cuetlatchli

Not voting: Disgruntled Sean,


With three alive, it takes two to lynch.

DisgruntledSean,

mafia goon

, is dead. Town wins! (at last)

On the setup, I just used one of nhammen's that I found interesting and gave it another whirl. DJ played in that game, I'm surprised he didn't bring it up when discussing the setup, though given the gunsmith and FBI agent claims whirling around he can be forgiven for not spotting it straight away.

I think scum had a fairly hard time in this game - they played well, but I guess their claims kind of screwed them in the end. I tried to even out the disadvantage that they have from playing 2 - 1 - 9 by giving them the ability to daytalk, and I think that this is where DisgruntledSean's gunsmith claim came from.

After modding this game, I just don't think that serial killers work in a mini normal. They either screw the scum (2 - 1 - 9) or the town (3 - 1 - 8). But at least it was interesting and I hope you enjoyed playing.

[Hoopla]

Ugh, well done Don and Cue - you unraveled the game nicely on the last day.

I don't want to complain about any of the circumstances that lead to our downfall, but 2:1:9's already steeply advantage town's, so there needs to be counterbalance to offset this. This town win takes it to;

Mafia - 6 wins
Town - 18 wins
SK - 4 wins

3:9 is widely considered the stock set-up of Mini Normal, so it's quite easy to see how 2:1:9's favour town. You have the same number of anti-town players to kill, but you then gain the possibility of cross-kills which is a potent swinging factor. It is also how we caught cruelty Night 1.

After targeting him then, and realising our kill didn't go through, it made it quite obvious to me he must be a bullet-proof SK, as nobody claimed a roleblocking action, or protection on cruelty. This opened up the possibility of an FBI agent fakeclaim, though lynching the SK day 2 didn't earn me as much credit as I thought it would, which was always going to make it hard to win, after Sean was locked into his claim early.

At the risk of sounding unloyal, I had a very difficult time managing Sean. When you have only one partner, it's such a disadvantage to bus any time before Day 2, but it will always kill you in the end if you're seen protecting him at any time. I had a lot of aspirations for this game after seeing I was in a 2-player scumteam, and I felt free to do what I wish, but it was a handicap having Sean chained to my leg. I understand it is his first game, but his infrequent posting, and failure to think for himself was costly in the end.

In spite of all this, I think we did quite well pushing it into lylo, but it was always going to be a difficult task. We were weighing up the possibility of claiming someone had a gun on them in lylo, but it seemed like a big risk. We deemed it a better chance of winning if we both bussed each other hard on Day 4 and 5, which would appear counterproductive to the scum cause at such a time, hopefully earning the other one of us enough credit to disprove the Hoopla/Sean scumteam.

However, I overestimated how much that would come in to consideration. Neither don nor Cue really saw or thought any of that, which makes me feel like it was a waste, and we ought to be pushing hard on someone else on Day 5.

Here is our Quicktopic.

[don_johnson]

tbh, hoop, what sunk you guys was not going for the win in the first lylo. by cross voting you confirmed that one of you was scum. had you expressed more suspicion but taken a more reserved approach i think you could have easily spun my lynch and won the game. cue and dsister played very well in a tough situation and i'll bet you weren't counting on that. i think sean did okay, but i understand your frustration. bussing him earlier may have been your only option, perhaps pushing him instead of budja. you could have then blocked the motion detector and gotten rid of the semiconfirmed macho doc a little earlier. i'm actually rather pleased with this one.

[SpyreX]

Hoop I think you did a great job and I applaud taking the well-reasoned gambles - and killing me because sheeesh.

As soon as you started getting run up I had that itch it was both of you though.

DJ your end game was awesome. Cue's as well.

[Hoopla]

Hoop I think you did a great job and I applaud taking the well-reasoned gambles - and killing me because sheeesh.

I had a feeling you would be on to me if I left you alive any longer. Don really changed gears from Day 1/2 to Day 3 onwards - it was seriously like a complete turn around. It's kind of frustrating, because you build an expectancy based on what you see at the beginning, and base your night kills on that. I couldn't really that coming. Cue played very well for a newbie also - his reads were solid almost all game.

[SpyreX]

And cue stumbled into that perfect I am obvious town early on which helped.

And yea, there would have been no chance of me lynching DJ.

[Sotty7]

Nice job Don and Cue. I didn't envy you at the end there.

Hoop, with all things considered I thought you played pretty damn well in this game. The claim was great and had me buying into you for awhile.

Go town!

[Cuetlachtli]

Yea Hoop I thought you played a good game. You had me fooled!

Alright I gtg. See you around all!

[cruelty]

this game...

very rarely been this frustrated. i did literally nothing to get into the situation i was in and i KNEW hoopla was scum, but there was nothing i could do about it with town believing both scum claims. seriously toyed with throwing a fit and quitting the site over this.

[Sotty7]

Don't quit cruelty!

And yeah, this game was frustrating for me and I was just a townie.

[SpyreX]

Yea, no leaving cruelty. You just got dealt some bad cards.

[Faraday]

damn it seems fucking ages ago I was killed.


i thought ds was town, although I think I called Hoopla scum to JVW post game but that was about it.