The Resistance (Orange Game)

[Cybele]

/confirm. You can trust me, M=W.

[Cybele]

Fantastic. Now lets see. There are three Loyalists here, and Me=Weird has to choose three people to have the plans. Anybody want to volunteer?

[Cybele]

I suggest myself, KageLord and Me=Weird.

[Cybele]

I suggest me, because I know I can trust me. I suggest you because you can trust you, and since you are the key deciding factor, we must either trust you, or throw whatever plan you come up with out. I suggested KageLord because he volunteered. Don't really have any reason one way or another there, though.

[Cybele]

Thoughts:
1 is the wrong number of scum to have on the plans. It means they get to do what they like without worrying about what their friends might do. 0 is obviously the best number of scum there, but 2 or 3 aren't bad either.

Unless we get good reads off players, which people agree on, the plans should for now be assigned by random selection. Here's why:

If Drench is scum, he'll do what's worst for the town - put exactly one scum on the plans. If he isn't, he'll basically just be choosing at random, except probably put himself on. Assuming that, our odds of having exactly one scum on the plan are 73.3%. On the other hand, if we go randomly, the chances are exactly 50%.

Relevant. Thoughts?

[Cybele]

Oh, true. I'll try to limit anything like that in the future. Anyways, I wonder how much merit is in this argument. It is very centered around playing this game by the odds. I'd rather spend it gathering evidence on who to trust or distrust, personally. It's not a bad plan by any means.
I think... I like my plan more because we can gather information from more sources this way. From how Me=Weird and others respond to my reasoning, from how the votes for the plan go, and then from how it turns out. With this other plan, it seems to stress a completely random choosing, which limits information received from it.

What do others think about it?

[Cybele]

So, what you're saying is we should have a thoughtful discussion, root out scum, and then completely disregard all that in favour of random.org (which I think can be faked, btw)?
You better explain that reasoning. Like, real good.

[Cybele]

I'd be okay with either SSBF or animo's plan. Upon more thought (and with his further explaining it, thank you ani) I think he has a decent idea.
I admit that now that I'm not the one proposing a plan, I end up feeling a bit distrustful to SSBF's plan, which helps me realize how he felt to mine (in which I even added myself). So while I worry that he's placed scum in it, I have to admit that it's no worse than my plan. Probably.


However, Me=Weird shouldn't finalize his proposal until everyone has spoken up. We have too many lurkers right now.

[Cybele]

Two things:
I said random.org can be faked. A dice tag roll can't be without us knowing about it.

well one of the 2 of them.

Maybe for you. We'd still have three suspects. We can't really take your word for it that you're town, especially if this gets sabotaged.

[Cybele]

EBWOP: I realize you're joking, but I don't want a subliminal "I'm innocent." going out. We really have no reason to think that you are.

[Cybele]

chenhsi, ooba and Zodiark: Speak up now, or be forever assumed as Empire.

[Cybele]

We've also only gotten one post from Zang, which was nothing more than agreeing with one of my posts.

I'd be fine if Me=Weird would make his proposal now. At the very least, I'd like an idea which he supports.

@SSBF: You said animo's plan is "solid". If that's so, why have you submitted your own list? It doesn't conform to ani's "random dice roll" suggestion. Which do you prefer (yours or his)?

[Cybele]

*prod*
C'mon M=W. No excuses. You can at least provide some input.

[Cybele]

Ani: it really doesn't matter what he was doing. Give it a break.

[Cybele]

animorpherv1:

ISO: 4 is a solid idea that can help us.

Only for Base 1. It would keep people from going "Oh, I'm not getting picked today, so I don't need to post" but also finds the Empire at the same time.

Or alternativley, choose mostly people who don't post. That way, there is more discussion, and a better chance of being able to root out Empire.

About animorpherv1's "random dice roll" suggestion,

I'm not a fan of it

.

I want to be able to get some serious discussion done and choose someone who could be the best potential leader.

Also,

his idea for choosing people who are inactive is a

really bad idea

.

All we'll get is an inactive person who probably really won't do anything in the game.

There's some serious flip-flopping going on here. The best I can figure out, is that you think he's townish for saying people need to post more, because everything else in that post (the one you said was so 'solid') you are now saying is a bad idea.
More in a bit, once I read your new plan.

[Cybele]

Okay, so your new plan is little more than getting inactives posting again, so whatever.
My thoughts on SSBF's plan:
While overall I can't find any major quibbles with his three nominations (M=W was one of my suggestions, after all; KageLord does seem townish, and his ISO 3 was pretty good, even if his ISO 2 was meh; and ani doesn't seem much one way or the other) I'm starting to get a scummy feeling from SSBF himself. The nominations reasoning seems weak and patched together and he is recently taking back what he said earlier about animo. When we take away everything that he's now come out to say that he disagrees with, we're left with a nomination based on the idea that he's played mafia several times now. On a mafia site. I'm really worried that one of his nominations are Empire (not to mention SSBF himself).
So... I'm going to come out against this plan. My vote, in advance is NO.

[Cybele]

I'm going to have to take time to examine everybody's contributions before I can make any suggestions as to a list.
I admit my original plan amounted to gathering as much clean info as possible. I threw together a quick nomination plan, placing myself in it (because then I only need to sort two other people into town/scum, placing M=W into it, based on the fact that him being the leader, I can glean more information based on how the plan goes through, etc, and Kage because I needed a third. Basically, for the first nominations, we end up in a sort of RVS. I was hoping to get to the voting stage and analyze how it was going, and then vote NO if anything seemed off. However, with votes by PM, and only 48 hours in total, we have much less of a chance to catch a bad wagon and stop it.
So, regardless of the fact that it's mostly been disagreed with anyways, I'd like to officially rescind my original nominations. The plan I had probably won't work, and thus it'd be a risk to town. I do still like animo's first idea of making the final proposal based on a roll of the die, but holding it off as long as we can to discuss and smoke out the scum. Unless I or someone else comes up with a solid list of 3 candidates, that is.

[Cybele]

Oh, and we need some actual participation from Zang and chenhsi. I don't care if you don't care about the plans. You should care about finding scum.

[Cybele]

Wtf.
Zang is either useless town or Empire. Any plan involving him, or anyone suggesting we give him a plan needs to be discredited.

[Cybele]

We have two and a half hours until deadline.

[Cybele]

Okay, can we have a bit of discussion about this?
Does anyone have any issues with this nomination? I'm tempted to vote yes.
Less than 22 hours left.

[Cybele]

Sending in a yes now, then.

[Cybele]

Lol, if all three did, then we have three Empire pinned down. It would be a glorious victory for the Resistance.

[Cybele]

Man, pay attention!
1 - Where the heck have you been lately. Report in, and discuss shit, please.
2 - If you had, you might know that YOU DIDN'T RECEIVE A PLAN. Therefore, you don't send in a PM.
3 - You had a choice between the two? It seems to me that only scum have a choice, as townies have only one option, and it's made for them automatically. So, you're saying that you're scum, then?

[Cybele]

Fair enough, I rescind point 2 of my last post. The rest stands.

[Cybele]

Um, I was on the last one, ani.

[Cybele]

And, I'm not so certain I want ani to be given a plan. It's good to have an early proposal to fall back on, so I can respect that, but lets use our time to discuss and make sure we have our best candidates. Lets not get lazy just because the first attack went without a hitch.

[Cybele]

I like Me=Weird, KageLord, ooba and myself.

[Cybele]

Given a complete lack of conversation beforehand, does anyone have any objections?
I'm going to run up a prod-list of everyone that hasn't posted more than once since last vote.
...
I can't see this passing so damn easily unless there's scum on the current plan (either hiding out from last base, or is ooba) or all the scum is inactive.

[Cybele]

Zang
Zodiark13
KageLord
chenhsi
Me=Weird

Please prod Zang, Zodiark and Me=Weird at least.

[Cybele]

Good point. Changing my vote to no.

[Cybele]

My luck.

Edit: Wait, this actually works out for me anyways!

Please clarify. What are you talking about?

[Cybele]

DarkStalker is an ani alt, apparently. (Ah, alliterations!)
I'm changing my vote because of a perceived connection between a not-so townish ani and ooba. Possibly ani is Empire, and he's pretending not to like ooba (busbusbus), and now he's placing him on the list (after trying to nominate himself, but that didn't work). I'm guessing ani and ooba are Empire. Not certain, obviously, but there's enough suspicion that I don't want this going through yet. We have plenty of time to pause this and sort it out.
Please vote NO.

[Cybele]

He gave off a townish vibe. He made his point, and explained why he thought so. It's only the possible connection with ani, and a scum dynamic between them that makes me suspect him. Once again, this is by no means certain, but I think it's enough to delay the vote just long enough to talk it over.
Please vote NO.

[Cybele]

Errr, I almost bypassed the question there. Sorry. Anyways, I chose to add him to the proposal because ani seemed against it for vague-ass reasons, ooba is pretty townish (for reasons explained in the last post), and because we're quite low on reads on players. He seemed the best out of who I had to pick from. I still would be fine with him on a proposal if we can sort this out, or w/e. I'm just worried that he's being "helpful scum" and ani is sneaking him on the plan now.
Possible flaw in my logic: ani was the one to point out that ooba voted against the last plan. I just renoticed this as I was about to add it to evidence that ooba is scum, so yeeeaaahh...

[Cybele]

Only an hour left to vote. Please remember to vote NO.

[Cybele]

Be warned, if 5

consecutive

votes fail, the Empire will win the game automatically.

This is correct? As in, once we move on to the next base, the failed vote counter resets, right? Focussing on the word consecutive here, which isn't present in your recent post.

[Cybele]

Has it been that long already?
/is weary

[Cybele]

brianj has made a pretty solid first post. If we can expect this to continue, he'd make a great addition to the town-list. I like his point about chenhsi, so I second him as a fourth.

[Cybele]

Oh, I meant I was seconding chenhsi as a fourth. brianj has only made one post so far, not enough to judge him on.

[Cybele]

We can still talk it out a bit. I actually like this plan, so I'm voting yes. Kage's nomming right away makes sense when you consider the deadline reminder just before. Furthermore, there was a lot of agreement over keeping the three from last base. Add to that brianj's point on chenhsi, my agreement, and I would have to guess Kage's, and it's enough for him to nom it, I'd think.
But maybe I'm just rationalizing a plan I like. Please make your case if you disagree with me.

[Cybele]

You've made two posts during this entire vote. If you want discussion, you need to participate more. And actually say something other than 'we need more discussion'. This adds nothing. Absolutely nothing.

[Cybele]

Incidentally, I'm sending in my YES vote now. Good luck, everybody.

[Cybele]

Man, we should continue on regardless. Why stop at 3 bases.
Let's throw some weight behind this suckerpunch.

[Cybele]

Anyways: Ooba needs to post now.

[Cybele]

We need one more, though.

[Cybele]

I'm thinking Zang/SSBF.

I'm thinking not.

[Cybele]

My mistake. Also, what with your post being on a different page, I didn't see it, Zang.

[Cybele]

Yeah, I'm aware of the possibility (nay, likelyhood) of Empire laying low, but if they are, it's suboptimal strategy, I think. Three bases left any we only need one more successful plan. Next base will be hard for the Empire, too. Not all that worried.

[Cybele]

I'll be voting yes.

[Cybele]

Oh, hey! That totally got me. I was wondering why everyone was so happy about the link... and now I know.

[Cybele]

Nah, he was pretty obvious. Was pretty sure you were his buddy, seeing how he acted about you, though.