Mini 932: Let's all be friends (Over)

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: hoopla

there you go boy-o!

shower revelation: hoop is goon. cue is priest.

[don_johnson]

Ok, don... who do you think is scummy?

a better question would be "who does dsister think is scummy?"

I see you managed to dodge this question. I'd like an answer please

answered above. i have actually been answering this question all along. hence why my vote keeps changing. only person i know is not scum is me, therefore i am entertaining any and all scenarios in which all of you are various couplings of scum. its called... scumhunting. i've been working my ass off.

Now you are doubting there is a FBI agent again?(750)

do you think there is an fbi agent?

Right now

I believe that we have an fbi agent.

Especially

if we don't have a gunsmith

[/quote]

i 100% agree with the bolded.

Now you are back to hoop/cue scum team?(760+761) Also you implore Sean not to vote for you if he is town, so you believe him now? o.O

all sorts of hell yea. you are very confident for someone with so little contribution.

not following you. a town on town vote loses the game. sean's posts seem sincere.

So you believe he is sincere, yet the next post you vote for him? o.O

yeah. i do that shit all the time. i'm a wild man.

[Hoopla]

Don, this is getting to the point of being ridiculous, and I'm starting to suspect this is a smokescreen for something. Distraction against a Sean lynch, because you're the obvious follow-up choice?

answered above. i have actually been answering this question all along. hence why my vote keeps changing. only person i know is not scum is me, therefore i am entertaining any and all scenarios in which all of you are various couplings of scum. its called... scumhunting. i've been working my ass off.

No. It's not called scumhunting, it's wreckless, unnecessary play that just serves to incriminate you, and distract everyone else, and has a real chance of losing the game if you're town and leave a vote on a townie long enough. You've voted everyone except Cue today, so you've definitely been voting a townie at some stage.

Know what the weirdest thing is to me? The likeliest scenario we're in this;

One scum from Don/Cue
One scum from Hoopla/Sean

Yet, you've given little to no attention to Cue, when from a town perspective, you must think it's very likely Cue is scum, as you have to find a team out of Hoopla/Sean/dsister, and speaking for myself - that is bogus. Why are you taking a risk on one of us three, when Cue must be likely scum from your perspective?

Answer: Because you're scum. Guys, I've broke the game. Don and Sean are the scumteam.

Unvote, vote: don_johnson

[Hoopla]

WAIT NEW REVELATION LOL

Unvote, vote: dsister

[Hoopla]

WAIT NO LOL

I THINK I HAVE IT THIS TIME

Unvote, vote: Apple Crumble

[Hoopla]

Unvote

But seriously. Sean/don scumteam.

Cue, dsister, who are we lynching first?

[don_johnson]

Don, this is getting to the point of being ridiculous, and I'm starting to suspect this is a smokescreen for something. Distraction against a Sean lynch, because you're the obvious follow-up choice?

no. i am not sure sean is scum.

No. It's not called scumhunting, it's wreckless, unnecessary play that just serves to incriminate you, and distract everyone else, and has a real chance of losing the game if you're town and leave a vote on a townie long enough. You've voted everyone except Cue today, so you've definitely been voting a townie at some stage.

yes. lylo is one of the best times to scumhunt. for instance, by leaving my vote on you i am giving sean's hypo scumbuddy a chance to hammer. so far, they haven't, which means that cue/dsister may very well be both town.

Know what the weirdest thing is to me? The likeliest scenario we're in this;

One scum from Don/Cue
One scum from Hoopla/Sean

Yet, you've given little to no attention to Cue, when from a town perspective, you must think it's very likely Cue is scum, as you have to find a team out of Hoopla/Sean/dsister, and speaking for myself - that is bogus. Why are you taking a risk on one of us three, when Cue must be likely scum from your perspective?

actually, cue investigated as "no motion". that serves to incriminate him less and less, however, with you being at L-1 overnight and no hammer, he will be reevaluated after your flip.

Answer: Because you're scum. Guys, I've broke the game. Don and Sean are the scumteam.

no. i've got you. i called scum out on day 1(cruelty). you and spyrex took your sweet time pushing that wagon day 1. then spyrex is killed, because you know damn well this would have fallen apart with him alive. fbi claim is weak.

the mere existence of an fbi agent in a mini normal makes the game unwinnable for an sk.

^^ you have never successfully refuted this statement.

if sean/don was the scumteam, then why did i replcae in and try to get him lynched? easy answer to that one: because you were bussing.

but if that was the case, then why would i be unwilling to bus him now?

answer: because we're not scumbuddies.

oh yeah, who counseled against the budja lynch? dj. why would scum try and save a "motion detector"?

dsister and cue: if one of you is sean's buddy, please hammer and end this. if not. you need to seriously reevaluate hoopla as he is one hundred percent scum. of course, one of you may know this.

Cue, dsister, who are we lynching first?

^^ its you or sean. earlier you were "90% sure" that sean was scum. of course, you waited until i voted him to lay down your vote. now why would you do that?

[Cuetlachtli]

I say we lynch Don first. His flip has stark implications to Sean and Hoops' alignments since Sean's Day 2 investigation of Don came up as "no gun." For instance, if Don flips goon or any other non-investigative immune role, then Sean is almost confirmed as Don's scum buddy. If Don flips godfather or any other investigative immune role, then we still have stuff to discuss.

[don_johnson]

I say we lynch Don first. His flip has stark implications to Sean and Hoops' alignments since Sean's Day 2 investigation of Don came up as "no gun." For instance, if Don flips goon or any other non-investigative immune role, then Sean is almost confirmed as Don's scum buddy. If Don flips godfather or any other investigative immune role, then we still have stuff to discuss.

interesting switch here. you think hoop/don is a possibility?

hoop is at L-1. why would i put my scumbuddy to L-1 after seventeen vote changing posts when townsean would have been lynched long ago? if you really think i'm scum, pairing me with hoop is quite assinine. that said: your post above shows absolutely zero scumhunting. have you reread at all? have you analyzed my interactions with anyone?

vote sean or vote hoop. moving the lynch away from the two when at least one is confirmed scum is stupid. with hoop at L-1 and no hammer from you two,

either

hoop is scum

or

both ds and i are scum

or

hoop and ds are scum. if you think its hoop/dj, then you need to explain more than you have.

dsister: do a brother a solid and vote hoop. there's no way fbi agent exists in this set-up. if he's your scumbuddy, just think of the town cred you'll buy for tomorrow.

[dsister]

hoop is at L-1. why would i put my scumbuddy to L-1 after seventeen vote changing posts when townsean would have been lynched long ago? if you really think i'm scum, pairing me with hoop is quite assinine. that said: your post above shows absolutely zero scumhunting. have you reread at all? have you analyzed my interactions with anyone?

I think you answered your own question

...if he's your scumbuddy, just think of the town cred you'll buy for tomorrow.

[don_johnson]

dsister: your last post implies that you think hoop is my scumbuddy. hoop is at L-1. if you think he is scum then hammer.

if you guys think i'm rude i apologize, but i'm getting tired of all this lackidaisical posting. hoop is at L-1. hoop is at L-1. HOOPLA IS AT L-1.

neither of you have hammered which means that neither of you are scum with sean or me. so either hoop is town fbi agent with both scum on his wagon, or hoop is scum.

are either of you planning on posting analysis, or can i expect one-liners and smug quips for the rest of the day? at least one(if not both) of you

has

to be town. start acting like it.

[dsister]

1. This game is very stressful. Some of you guys are really good liars... xD

2. No matter how much I want to think Don is scum, I can't bring myself to vote him. He actually made a case against Hoopla. Where as she hasn't of him...


My gut is saying

vote:Hoopla

[don_johnson]

i will laugh my ass off if you are scum with sean or cue.

#2 above is quite right. i don't think anyone has made a "case" against me. the main push today was tying me to scumsean. anyhoo...

that's a hammer. truth time.

[Cuetlachtli]

*sigh at the quick lynch

now I really hope you are town don....

[Hoopla]

Lol. Good game scum.

[Cuetlachtli]

hoop are you town? If yes, the 2 scum should come out....

[don_johnson]

hoop is scum. don't let em fool ya.

dsister/sean might be a stretch. if thats the team then we nailed both scum on day 1. whateverz. we need a mod up in here.

[julienvonwolfe]

Vote Count No. 32:

Hoopla (3) Disgruntled Sean, don_johnson, dsister

Not voting: Cuetlachtli, Hoopla

Hoopla,

Mafia Roleblocker

, is dead. It is now night five, send in night actions.

[julienvonwolfe]

Is it endgame yet? This game's gone on long enough, it must be...

dsister,

Macho Doctor

, is dead. It is now day six.

Vote Count No. 33:

Not voting: Cuetlachtli, Disgruntled Sean, don_johnson


With three alive, it takes two to lynch.

[Cuetlachtli]

Ok no quick lynching today.

I think I am basically clear. Here is why:

1. Budja said I didn't do anything on Night 1

2. Sean found no gun on me

3. On Day 2, I was the only opponent of Hoop's policy lynch plan. I warned everyone that it was probably a ploy by hypo-scum hoop to get us to LYLO without lynching any scum, which is what happened! If you look at the results of Night 1 and the subsequent actions of Day 2, it is obvious that Cruelty killed Riddick and the mafia tried to kill Cruelty. That is why Hoop camped her vote on Cruelty hoping the town would lynch him, which in turn would make her FBI agent claim seem real.

There are a couple reasons why my actions on Day 2 should be seen as town. First of all, scum want quick days. They want minimal discussion to prevent scum slips and to make the town player's overall reads more difficult. Remember, just before I argued my Hoop-Sotty-Don hypo-scum theory, Cruelty was at L-2. If I had kept that theory to myself and voted Cruelty instead, we would have almost surely of had a quick lynch on Day 2. Instead, I pushed the issue and forced the town into additional discussion.

[Cuetlachtli]

Right now my initial FoS is Don.

When I first replaced into the game on Day 2, I made it clear right off the bat that there was something fishy about the relationship between Hoop and Don. On Day 1 during the Sean and Ice bandwagons, Hoop gave Ice town points for not voting Sean. It seemed like a phony statement to me since Ice only had 2-3 posts at the time, which wasn't enough content to make such a brash judgment in my opinion. Once Don replaced Ice and started tunneling on Cruelty, Hoop was again quick to give Don's slot the town label.

Another point against Don are the stark differences between his Day 2 and 3 play-styles. On Day 2, Don was very passive and kind of let things happen. I think this is because he knew that if we lynched Cruelty, his scum buddy Hoop would gain substantial credibility among the town heading into the next day. On Day 3, Don went full circle and became very aggressive. His main focus on Day 3 was on Hoop. He said that he looked back at Hoop's Day 2 and concluded that he didn't believe here claim, even though we did in fact lynch the Serial Killer. This came across as distancing to me and I called Don out on it. How could Don even be motivated to look back at Day 2 after Cruelty's SK flip all but proved Hoop's claim? And if he did have reasons not to believe Hoop yesterday, why did he support her from the beginning? He answered that he really couldn't focus on Day 2 because of real life issues. Well I went back and reread Day 2 and I called Don out about various stuff on 3 separate occasions. On each of those 3 occasions, Don replied to all of my posts on the same day! If real life issues really were an impediment to Don's play on Day 2, you would think that there would have been a substantial delay between when I posted and when he replied to my post. I think Don's response time on Day 2 is evidence against him for active lurking. Keep in mind, Don active lurked all of Day 2 with a vote camped on Cruelty; a lynch that would give his scum buddy some serious town points.

One of the things that made me start to question Hoop was her willingness to lynch Sean after my post 756 during Day 4. At the beginning of Day 4, Hoop had said that the town should decide the next 2 lynches as a whole before placing any votes. Well in post 763 Hoop seemed to contradict this statement by joining Don's bandwagon on Sean and putting him at L-1. The town had never decided on the next 2 lynches and here Hoop was pushing for a Sean quick lynch. That is when I started to question post 756 and again start suspecting Hoop as a likely mafioso. It seemed like she thought I was 100% on her side and she was hoping that I would hammer Sean for the scum victory. But I didn't and I think that again is more town points for me.

Yet another point against Don are his two hammers. The Day 1 hammer on Sidekick was a little fishy. His Day 3 hammer on Budja was very scummy. Even though he thought Budja was town and Hoop scum, he said that he didn't want to wait so that is why he hammered Budja. Umm...if you think someone is town, you don't hammer them! Even if you are dealing with a fail town, you stand your ground until the deadline forces you and the town to make a decision. I just thought Don's reason for hammering Budja was a cop out and a poor excuse for a scum to end the day.

[Cuetlachtli]

And now the inevitable point against me:

Cue, since Dsister, Sean, and Don voted to lynch Hoop and you didn't, you must be scum! Clearly 3 members of the town voted to lynch Hoop, who was obvious scum. The fact that you didn't participate in this lynch is evidence that you are scum!



Well, this is kind of a difficult point to refute. Yes 3 people voted to lynch Hoop, who flipped scum, but this doesn't necessarily mean all 3 of them are town! If that were the case , then I made a serious blunder by not hammering Sean, who was at L-1 for 4 hours and L-2 for 6 hours.

Look, almost all of the good scum players buss. Its a fact. I do it all the time on Epic Mafia. Bussing is a very effective way to confuse the town and manipulate them into miss lynching. Now look at Don's scum record that he boasts at the bottom of all his posts: mafia 8 wins, 3 loses. That record makes him look like a elite scum player. And what do elite scum players like to do? Buss!

I think my argument about Don's Day 2 and 3 play is critical. Do you really think he would have been motivated to reread Day 2 critically after Cruelty flipped serial killer? Do you really think Don would suspect Hoop of being scum after Day 2, even though he completely trusted her all of Day 2 when I gave him all the reasons in the world not to trust her?

[don_johnson]

a) i called cruelty out as scum on day 1. that's before any night actions. no way scumdon could have known sk existed at that point.

b) cue is 100% clear. barring a bastard mod set-up, no way cue is scum. hoop flipped roleblocker, not 1-shot. it means that he was out roleblocking every night. cue didn't go anywhere night one. so unless scum no killed or didn't roleblock, cue can't be scum and in my experience going down the "what if" road is always fail.

c) i made a clear case against hoop as soon as i went back and reread the thread. saying i'm scum because i figured out that hoop's claim was bullshit is a little backwards.

d) exactly what "scumhunting" has sean done all game? even in lylo all he did was appeal to an "either/or" fallacy.

please reread the thread cue. if you are scum then the game is yours.

821 accuse me of "bussing". sean's vote can easily be construed the same and if your reread the day, it should be obvious that it is more likely a bus than mine.

i'm a little shocked that you would even think i'm scum after all of the information i poured into this thread yesterday.

if you are unconvinced, allow me to reread the entire thread and put together a more coherent case on sean.

think about set-up balance. how does the gunsmith fit? sean is most likely mafia goon. i would say town may be a bit underpowered, but anti-town roles only equal 3, so i think it works.

cue: have you ever gone back to read my case against hoop? did you ever read the particular post i pointed out?

reread yesterday: everyone was pointing the finger at a sean/don scumteam. there was no incentive for scumdon(who would most likely be goon) to bus the roleblocker when the entire town was pairing the goon to the towngunsmith. a townsean lynch would have won the game. a scumdon lynch would have set-up lylo with hoop vs. sean. confirmed town cue would have been dead and dsister would have had no reason to vote anywhere other than sean.

one of the things which had me secondguessing my scumread on you(cue) was your constant willingness to explore all possible options for scumteams. very similar to what i was doing yesterday. had hoop flipped one-shot roleblocker or goon, you would still be a candidate for scum. he didn't, so you can't be(barring extreme early game scum manipulation, i.e. the "what if" scenarios which lead to fail.)

please think this through. allow me to post more. if you are scum, then here's the game:

vote: disgruntledsean

just so you know where i stand. more later.

[Cuetlachtli]

ok I will go back and reread the whole thread. We have a 2 week deadline anyways.

[don_johnson]

ok. ^^ this post confirms my read.

in regards to my contribution and the assertion of "rl" affecting the game, if there is any particular post or period of time which you are questioning, just cite it by post number. i can easily reference my calendar and tell you exactly what i was doing. i have been full time in a local nursing program since last september. i just graduated on the 19th of may. i also have a history of playing with spyrex. i can expand on that if need be, but understand(and you can meta this) i trust spyrex when i think he's town, and i generally think he's town until day 3. he is an awesome townie and the only time i usually suspect him(barring investigations, etc.) is if he is allowed to survive too long. in any case, i'm glad you didn't hammer as it confirms my read. i will be gone tomorrow with my family, but i will start tearing this thread up when i return if you need me to. i honestly think if you reread the thread you will realize the truth.